Dense 60-120B model

#31
by rtzurtz - opened

A 60B dense model may perform on par to a ~270-330B MoE model, if one considers sqrt(total B parameters * active B parameter), as real-life examples of dense vs MoE of similar size difference still confirm this formula.
And a 120B dense one would perform on par to an accordingly ~4.5-5.5 times larger MoE model.
But in each case, both would fit in so many more people's hardware. Even if it's a quant in all cases, it's still roughly a 5 times difference in memory requirement.

  • High RAM/memory prices, to the point where buying more RAM vs using a GPU, does not make sense any more.
  • A dense model provides a much better performance for a given parameter or memory requirement size.
  • For me and from comments, for many, waiting time can be much less relevant vs a high quality answer.
  • A 60B Q4_K_M quant (~40 GB + some context) will still fit in a 2 x 24 GB setup and run pretty fast.
  • (DDR6 and GDDR8 will speed up and compensate for such a model in the future.)

I second this.
A modern 70B dense model with architecture, data and training methodology on par with something like GLM 5.2 would be a dream come true,
With my 42GB of VRAM, 70B is the Sweet spot, while I can also run 120B MoE, a good 70B dense should absolutely destroy a 120B MoE, while also running faster on my hardware.

With my 42GB of VRAM, 70B is the Sweet spot [...]

May I ask more about how you run GLM 5.2 within 42Gb vram ?
And what is the said hardware, software and outputs ?

This would greatly help ๐Ÿ˜„

With my 42GB of VRAM, 70B is the Sweet spot [...]

May I ask more about how you run GLM 5.2 within 42Gb vram ?
And what is the said hardware, software and outputs ?

This would greatly help ๐Ÿ˜„

I can't run GLM 5.2 in 42GB of VRAM. I could run a 70B dense version or a 100-150B MoE (for the MoE I'm using ik_llama.cpp --n-cpu-moe to ofload experts to system ram)

I can't run GLM 5.2 in 42GB of VRAM. I could run a 70B dense version or a 100-150B MoE (for the MoE I'm using ik_llama.cpp --n-cpu-moe to ofload experts to system ram)

First, thanks for replying ๐Ÿ‘Œ
Really helpful to understand better how to use my gpus for more than "144Hz gaming + ollama". Indeed offloading looks to be the right path to follow.

And super great work you are sharing, i'll give CYOA a try !

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