Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101551
From: cs012055@cs.brown.edu (Hok-Chung Tsang)
Subject: Re: Saturn's Pricing Policy

In article <C4vIr5.L3r@shuksan.ds.boeing.com>, fredd@shuksan (Fred Dickey) writes:
|> CarolinaFan@uiuc (cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
|> : 	I have been active in defending Saturn lately on the net and would
|> : like to state my full opinion on the subject, rather than just reply to others'
|> : points.
|> : 	
|> : 	The biggest problem some people seem to be having is that Saturn
|> : Dealers make ~$2K on a car.  I think most will agree with me that the car is
|> : comparably priced with its competitors, that is, they aren't overpriced 
|> : compared to most cars in their class.  I don't understand the point of 
|> : arguing over whether the dealer makes the $2K or not?  
|> 
|> I have never understood what the big deal over dealer profits is either.
|> The only thing that I can figure out is that people believe that if
|> they minimize the dealer profit they will minimize their total out-of-pocket
|> expenses for the car. While this may be true in some cases, I do not
|> believe that it is generally true. I bought a Saturn SL in January of '92.
|> AT THAT TIME, based on studying car prices, I decided that there was
|> no comparable car that was priced as cheaply as the Saturn. Sure, maybe I
|> could have talked the price for some other car to the Saturn price, but
|> my out-of-pocket expenses wouldn't have been any different. What's important
|> to me is how much money I have left after I buy the car. REDUCING DEALER PROFIT
|> IS NOT THE SAME THING AS SAVING MONEY! Show me how reducing dealer profit
|> saves me money, and I'll believe that it's important. My experience has
|> been that reducing dealer profit does not necessarily save me money.
|> 
|> Fred


Say, you bought your Saturn at $13k, with a dealer profit of $2k.
If the dealer profit is $1000, then you would only be paying $12k for
the same car.  So isn't that saving money?

Moreover, if Saturn really does reduce the dealer profit margin by $1000, 
then their cars will be even better deals.  Say, if the price of a Saturn was
already $1000 below market average for the class of cars, then after they
reduce the dealer profit, it would be $2000 below market average.  It will:

1) Attract even more people to buy Saturns because it would SAVE THEM MONEY.
 
2) Force the competitors to lower their prices to survive.

Now, not only will Saturn owners benefit from a lower dealer profit, even 
the buyers for other cars will pay less.

Isn't that saving money?



$0.02,
doug.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101552
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Are BMW's worth the price?                      

In article <1993Apr5.135153.11132@wdl.loral.com> gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) writes:
>Road and Track (2/88) BMW325is     0-60 7.5s, 1/4 mile 15.7s
>               (Road Test 
>                Annual 1993)       0-60 8.3s, 1/4 mile 16.2s
>
>
>Those are the numbers I was quoting, I have driven the older model but not the
>newer.


sure sounds like they got a ringer.  the 325is i drove was definitely
faster than that.  if you want to quote numbers, my AW AutoFile shows
0-60 in 7.4, 1/4 mile in 15.9.  it quotes Car and Driver's figures
of 6.9 and 15.3.  oh, BTW, these numbers are for the 325i.

i don't know how the addition of variable valve timing for 1993 affects it.
but don't take my word for it.  go drive it.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101553
From: netops@tekgen.bv.tek.com (Randy King)
Subject: RE: headlights problem

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO RESPONDED TO MY POSTING. 

THE PROBLEM WITH MY TRUCK'S HEADLIGHTS LOW BEAM PROBLEM WAS A "LOOSE WIRE
 CONNECTION".  IT WAS NOT THE "FUSE" AS A MINORITY OF YOU SUGGESTED.

THANKS AGAIN.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101554
From: netops@tekgen.bv.tek.com (Randy King)
Subject: left turn signal won't stop automaticaly

The subject says it all. My 1984 Chev S10 Pickup's left turn signal does
not stop after turning. What cause this to stop automaticaly?. Is this
a mechanical problem by the steering wheel?.

NOTE: This truck has an after market steering wheel (GT-Grant) installed.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101555
From: lxrosser@cco.caltech.edu (Alex Rosser)
Subject: Re: What is " Volvo " ?

wolfson@regatta.sps.mot.com (Stephen Wolfson) writes:

>In article <1993Mar31.193406.29625@ugle.unit.no> oep@colargol.edb.tih.no  
>(oep) writes:
>> which turns into a teenagers car when it gets old. The average  
>lifelength of
>> a Volvo in Norway is 18 years, and in Sweden 20 years)

>Of course someone pointed out when Saab or Volvo was running their
>At least 10 years ads, that the average milage was significantly
>less than than the US average.

That my be, but every Volvo I've ever owned has lasted far longer than most
other cars.....
1981 Volvo 245....125,000 Miles, still on the road.
1983 Volvo 242....195,000 Miles, still on the road.
1984 Volvo 244....175,000 Miles, still on the road.
And I'll admit, the dealer repair cost is high. But with some mechanical
aptitude of your own, and finding a good indi mechanic, you can avoid most
breakdowns, and make the rest cheap(The sum total of the repairs on the car with
195,000 miles has been 2 mufflers and a radiator. Whoa. Bad repair record). 
And all of these cars are driven fairly hard. None of them are at the head of
a line of cars going 30 MPH....the first two spend a lot of their operating
life with the speedometer pegged...and the only reason the 84 doesn't is it has
a 120 MPH speedo...
What I want to know is....have all you people who hate Volvos been traumatized
by someone in a 745 Turbo wagon blowing you away on the road, or what?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101556
From: reb@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Ralph Bean)
Subject: Re: saturn pricing blatherings

Mihir Pramod Shah (mps1@cec1.wustl.edu) wrote:
: Robert J. Wade writes:
: > until...and more Saturn retailers are built(like 2 in the same city), 
:                        		     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: ...most medium and large cities have...a small handful of Saturn dealers now

Sacramento has two Saturn dealerships.

: Mihir Shah

Ralph Bean
hprnd.rose.hp.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101557
From: tjo@scr.siemens.com (Tom Ostrand)
Subject: Radio for Toyota Tercel

I'm looking for a replacement radio/tape player for a 1984 
Toyota Tercel.  Standard off-the-shelf unit is fine, but 
every place I've gone to (Service Merchandise, etc.) doesn't 
have my car in its model application book.  I want to just 
take out the old radio, and slide in the new, with minimal time
spent hooking it up and adjusting the dashboard.

If you have put in a new unit in a similar car, I'd like to hear
what brand,  how easy it was to do the change, and any other 
relevant information. 

Please answer via E-mail.
Thanks,  Tom Ostrand

-- 
Tom Ostrand			E-mail:  tjo@scr.siemens.com
Siemens Corporate Research	Phone:   609-734-6569
755 College Road East		FAX:     609-734-6565
Princeton, NJ  08540-6668

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101558
From: carl_f_hoffman@cup.portal.com
Subject: 1993 Infiniti G20


I am thinking about getting an Infiniti G20.
In consumer reports it is ranked high in many
catagories including highest in reliability index for compact cars.
Mitsubushi Galant was second followed by Honda Accord).

A couple of things though:
1) In looking around I have yet to see anyone driving this
   car. I see lots of Honda's and Toyota's.
2) There is a special deal where I can get an Infinity G20, fully
   loaded, at dealer cost (I have check this out and the numbers match
   up). They are doing this because they are releasing and update mid-1993
   version (includes dual air-bags) and want to get rid of their old 1993's.

I guess my question is: Is this a good deal? 
Also, Can anyone give me any feedback on Infiniti?

Thanks,

Carl Hoffman

P.S.

The other cars that I have test driven and which are in the
running are:
Mitsubishi Galant, Honda Accord, and Toyota Camary

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101559
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Basics about maintenance

In article <1993Apr5.175719.7892@telxon.mis.telxon.com> joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt) writes:
>In article <1piip4$bo6@agate.berkeley.edu> hubertc@whistle.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Hung-Hsien (Hubert) Chang) writes:
>>
>>Hi! being new to a car owner, I would pretty much like to know more about 
>>some basics of maintaining the cars.
>>
>>I know the following:
>>
>>1. Oil has to be changed every 3000 miles.
>
>Change the oil filter, too.
>
>>2. Check tires before going on the high way. And fill up the tank.
>
>Make that monthly, or more often if you know one or more of your
>tires has a slow leak.

If the tire has a leak you should fix it. 

>
>>What others? Thank you.
>
>
>4. Check ALL fluids regularly (every month?), check the oil every time you
>   fill up with gas.

Doesn't work too well if the engine is hot, its more accurate to check the
oil when the engine is cool, i.e. not when you are at a gas station.

Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101560
From: pp29616@dcl-nextsc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Park)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR (really about other cars)

In article <1993Apr5.212645.15988@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>  
kenyon@xqzmoi.enet.dec.com (Doug Kenyon (Stardog Champion)) writes:
> 
> It's great that all these other cars can out-handle, out-corner, and  
out-
> accelerate an Integra.
> 
> But, you've got to ask yourself one question: do all these other cars  
have
> a moonroof with a sliding sunshade?  No wimpy pop-up sunroofs or power
> sliding roofs that are opaque.  A moonroof that can be opened to the  
air,
> closed to let just light in, or shaded so that nothing comes in.
> 
> You've just got to know what's important :^).
> 
> -Doug
> '93 Integra GS
hahaha ... my sentiments exactly.  

--

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101561
From: daz1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DEMOSTHENIS A. ZEPPOS)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR

In article <3mwF2B1w165w@njcc.wisdom.bubble.org>, jonc@njcc.wisdom.bubble.org (J
on Cochran) writes:
>> >     I'd like to add the Beretta GTZ as a car which will kick GS-R butt
>> >anyday, and it's a lot cheaper to boot
>>
>> I will take this one with a definate grain of salt.  Performance data shows a
>>
>> If this poster has some proof(other than "my friend blew one away last week"
>
>
>     Want proof?  Here is some data on acceleration and handling from
>Motor Trend (apr '93).
>
>          Integra GS-R     Beretta GTZ
>
>0-60         7.7             7.7
>1/4 mile     16.0/88.1       16.1/87.8
>L acc (g's)  .84             .86
>Slalom       63.7            68.4
>***WRONG***
Why don't you look again at Motor Trend's, slalom times, they are 67.9, right
along with the Integra, and the car does that with small 14 inch tires that
are all -weather XGTV4, not to mention that the Integra rides alot better than
a Beretta.
Your acceleartion times also vary, magazine to magazine
Road & Track and Car& Driver have the GS-R at 6.8 to 8.0 for Road and Track.
Also Quarter mile times vary from 15.4 to 16.1
You can't tell exactly by the numbers.  Furthermore, the Integra will
definately outrun the Beretta on the high end.  Car & Driver and Road & track
have the GS-R doing 136 to 141 mph, and it gets there fast.


>     So, the Beretta can out handle the Integra and it can certainly keep
>up with it in acceleration.  And the Beretta probably has a higher top
>speed due to the horsepower advantage (160/117 (hp/torque) for the
>Integra vs. 180/160 for the Beretta).
***You always believe those exact numbers, why don't you drive a GS-R, and see
for your self, while the GS-R has a low 117 torqye, its high gearing over a 8000
rpm make up for the difference (still wouldn't call it a torque moster though!)

>     The biggest advantage would have to be the price.  The Integra costs
>$19,111 (as tested Motor Trend), the GTZ costs $16,134 (as tested).  The
>GTZ also has standard nicities and Airbag and Antilock brakes.  An airbag
>is not available on the Integra and lower models do not have ABS.
>Considering you save almost $3,000 dollars for the Beretta, and the Quad4
>is a reliable engine, it doesn't make sense to get the Integra as a
>performance coupe, which is what people have been trying to make it out
>to be.
>

Quad 4 reliable, yeah, what's your definition of reliable- if that's reliable,
then its safe to say that integra engines in general are near perfect
 (not to mention, a hell of alot smoother and quieter - balance shafts.The Acura has the engine
   wins the reliablity contest hands down. You can rev that car all day, everyday,
and you'll never blow a hose, or crack the block, or anything else. (I speak
from expierence!)
I'm not saying the Quad 4 is a bad engine, but don't highlight reliability when you
comparing it to a Acura Engine.  AND while the Integra costs alot more, it is a
better investment since it will hold its value considerably much better.  And
does a nice job at being a sporty car and practical at the same time.

NOTE: this isn't a flame on the GTZ, or other GM Quad 4 products.  THe Berreta
is a nice car, and puts out respectable performance and a very reasonable
price not to mention, it has an Airbag.  But to start quoting figures from one
source, isn't too reliable.  Read other sources, and drive both cars.  While I
haven't driven a GTZ, I have driven GTs, and Grand Ams with Quad 4 engines,
(so they are similair.)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101562
From: stlucas@gdwest.gd.com (Joseph St. Lucas)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

Don't have a list of what's been said before, so hopefully not repeating.

How about horizontally mounted oil filters (like on my Ford) that, no
matter how hard you try, will spill out their half quart on the bottom
of the car when you change them?

-- 
Joe St.Lucas    stlucas@gdwest.gd.com        Standard Disclaimers Apply
General Dynamics Space Systems, San Diego
Work is something to keep me busy between Ultimate Frisbee games.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101563
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Subject: Re: How hard to change springs on F350 truck?

In article <1993Apr3.005245.10615@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
>Does it take any peculiar tools to remove the rear springs from a Ford
>F350 truck? o

   Naah.  Just a coupla nice big bumps.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101564
From: edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards)
Subject: Re: Jeep Grand vs. Toyota 4-Runner

In article <1pq29p$29p@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM writes:
>
>Any reason you are limited to the two mentioned? They aren't really at
>the same point along the SUV spectrum - not to mention price range.
>How about the Explorer, Trooper, Blazer, Montero, and if the budget
>allows, the Land Cruiser? 

Any advice on HOW to buy a Land Cruiser? My local Toyota dealer says they
get two a year, and if I want one I can just get on the waiting list.
Forget about a test drive or even kicking the tires.
And if they are that rare, I doubt there is much of a parts inventory on
hand.



-- 
Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101565
From: rcg1597@zeus.tamu.edu (GUYNN, RICHARD CARL)
Subject: Re: MGBs and the real world

In article <1993Apr5.181056.29411@mks.com>, mike@mks.com (Mike Brookbank) writes...
>My sister has an MGB.  She has one from the last year they were produced
>(1978? 1979?).  Its in very good shape.  I've been bugging her for years

	Last year produced: 1980.

>about selling it.  I've said over and over that she should sell it
>before the car is worthless while she maintains that the car may
>actually be increasing in value as a result of its limited availability.
> 
>Which one of us is right?  Are there MGB affectionados out there who are
>still willing to pay $6K to 8K for an old MG?  Are there a lot out in the 
>market?
>-- 

	Yes, there are still alot of MGBs out there.  The earlier cars (pre
 74-1/2) are usually more desirable due to certain things that went with having 
chrome bumpers (ride height, generally more power).  The older cars are 
appreciating... slowly.  The newer ones seem to be at a stable level at the 
moment.  $6 to $8k would require extremely good condition and low miles.
If the car is in good shape and regular maintenance is kept up on it, the car 
should last for a long time.  There are still plenty of parts sources ouththere. 
 The MGB is a great, fun little car.  If she is keeping it solely in the hopes 
that it is going to appreciate, tell her to sell it.  It is not worth waiting 
the time it would take to appreciate to a real profitable level.

***************************************************************************
*Rick Guynn -MG driver soontobe.  *  MGA 1600 MkII                        *
*RCG1597@zeus.tamu.edu            *  Rebuild (complete) to be finished ?? *
*Texas A&M University             *                                       *
*Keeper of the eternal octagon    *  `69 MGB Roadster                     *
* a.k.a. The marque symbol that   *     I'll have it registered soon,     *
*        refuses to die.          *        honest!                        *
***************************************************************************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101566
From: tbigham@shearson.com (Tim Bigham)
Subject: Re: Advice on BMWs and winter driving

This past winter I drove from NYC to Killington,VT 6 or 7 times in my
1990 325i Convertible (talk about poor reputation in the snow!!)
with an EXCELLENT set of snow tires. I put 4 Noika NR10s on in Dec. and have been 
sure footed in some pretty severe weather conditions ever since. I've plowed through
4 - 5 inch snow covered roads effortlessly, while other cars have been paralyzed
(front wheel drive included).

Concentrate more on "where the rubber meets the road" rather than driveability of cars
in snowy conditions. Drive carefully, buy good snow tires, and most cars will perform
adequately in less than ideal conditions.

An aside: 
I can't praise Noika NR10 snows enough. Absolutely the BEST snow tires I have ever
driven on. If you live in the snow belt, do yourself a favor and get a set of these
next winter. 


Tim


---
Timothy J. Bigham			| All opinions expressed above are my own
Lehman Brothers, Inc.			| and should not be construed as those of 
AMEX Tower, World Financial Center	| my employer.
New York, N.Y. 				| 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101567
From: silver@xrtll.uucp (Hi Ho Silver)
Subject: Re: WAX RESIDUE ON BLACK MOLDING

Sayeth "Joseph D. Mazza" <mazz+@andrew.cmu.edu>:
$I waxed my car a few months ago with a liquid wax and now have whiteish
$smears where I inadvertantly got some wax on the black plastic molding. 
$I've tried repeatedly to remove the smears with no luck.  I'm on the
$verge of replacing the molding altogether (it's a nice car).

   Armor All removes Raindance wax on my Mazda Protege's black
plastic bumpers.  Your mileage may vary.

   Given this observation, one would be well advised to take care not to
get any of this (or, probably, similar protectants such as Son of a Gun)
on one's paint ...
-- 
|I know that sometimes my jaw clicks when I eat.  Void where prohibited.|
|Have you seen this boy?  Lust never sleeps.  I say hurl.  Honey, I'm   |
|home. _________________________________________________________________|
|_____/ silver@bokonon.UUCP    ...!{uunet|becker|xrtll}!bokonon!silver  |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101568
From: silver@xrtll.uucp (Hi Ho Silver)
Subject: Re: Who was   or   what is   MIATA, as used in the Mazda Miata?

Sayeth sjwyrick@lbl.gov (Steve Wyrick):
$Anybody keeping track of how many of these there are?  So far I have
$Miata, Tredia, Previa, Sentra, Maxima, Altima, Camry, and Justy, not to
$mention Lexus, Acura and Infiniti!  

   You're apparently including names that are, or appear to be,
derivatives of real words in English or some other language (e.g.
Acura, Infiniti, Maxima, Altima), in which case you missed ones such
as Integra, Supra, Allante', Capri and Calibra.  In Canada, add Serenia and
Precidia.  If you count misspellings, add Protege and (in Canada)
Vigor.  How about the forthcoming Mondeo, if it is given that name
in North America?

   Others might include Celica, Corolla, Paseo, and Tercel.  In Canada,
add Asu"na.
-- 
|I know that sometimes my jaw clicks when I eat.  Void where prohibited.|
|Have you seen this boy?  Lust never sleeps.  I say hurl.  Honey, I'm   |
|home. _________________________________________________________________|
|_____/ silver@bokonon.UUCP    ...!{uunet|becker|xrtll}!bokonon!silver  |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101569
From: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM (John Fox - SunExpress IR)
Subject: Re: Jeep Grand vs. Toyota 4-Runner

In article IGw@world.std.com, edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards) writes:
>I am considering buying one of these two vehicles (new).
>I want a fun-to-drive family vehicle that can go through anything.
>The Jeep is very popular, and has the features. All-Wheel-Drive, 4 wheel
>anti-lock, roomy passenger cabin (but limited cargo with an internal spare).
>THe Toyota is an aging design with only part-time 4-wheel and only rear
>anti-lock (and no anti-lock in 4WD!). It also has a very inconvenient
>rear gate, not to mention awkward ingress to the passenger cabin.
>

Any reason you are limited to the two mentioned? They aren't really at
the same point along the SUV spectrum - not to mention price range.
How about the Explorer, Trooper, Blazer, Montero, and if the budget
allows, the Land Cruiser? 
Bear in mind that 90% of all SUV's purchased never venture off-road.
Carefully weigh the trade-off between comfort and off-road performance
when choosing one, and realistically decide whether you'll actually
make enough use of the off-road-ability to sacrifice (some of) the
on-road comfort.



John










John





















Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101570
From: bernstei@next3.corp.mot.com (Andrew Bernstein)
Subject: Re: GEICO mechanical breakdown insurance

In article <C50pBH.244@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu  
(Robert J. Wade) writes:
@>In article <1993Apr4.010517.9701@lds.loral.com> mcculloc@sps204.lds.loral.com (Thad McCulloch) writes:
@>>
@>>Has anyone had any experience with GEICO's extended
@>>warranty plan.  It seems to be slightly less expensive than
@>>the normal dealer-sponsored policy.
@>>
@>and once again....*never* buy extended warranties....they are a complete and
@>total ripoff period!!!!  you are better off taking your money and putting it
@> 
in a bank and using that money for repairs.  many extended warranties never
@>pay or have co-payments etc.  
@>


How many people will actually put that money in the bank and keep it there for the
sole use of a automotive repair......maybe for people who have a hard time saving
money or don't want the hassle of  worrying about paying for everything the 
extended warranty is worth it.....for some people it is worth it...others not, and
for some the peace of mind knowing you won't have too many unexpected expenses
is enough.....if you drive a lot, your basic warranty can be up in a little longer than
a year....how many people can make the car payments as well as large repairs....

It may work for some people......

Andrew


--

Andrew Bernstein                                        
Motorola Inc.                          "There's no such thing as sanity,
1299 E. Algonquin Road            and that's the sanest fact"
Schaumburg, IL 60196-1077                               ---- Dire Straits
         bernstei@next3.corp.mot.com (NeXT mail OK)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101571
From: mike@mks.com (Mike Brookbank)
Subject: MGBs and the real world

My sister has an MGB.  She has one from the last year they were produced
(1978? 1979?).  Its in very good shape.  I've been bugging her for years
about selling it.  I've said over and over that she should sell it
before the car is worthless while she maintains that the car may
actually be increasing in value as a result of its limited availability.

Which one of us is right?  Are there MGB affectionados out there who are
still willing to pay $6K to 8K for an old MG?  Are there a lot out in the 
market?
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Brookbank,                 |MKS| 35 King St. North       mike@mks.com 
Director, InterOpen Sales,      |MKT| Waterloo, Ontario      (519)884-2251 
Mortice Kern Systems Inc.       |MKS| Canada, N2J 2W9    fax (519)884-8861

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101572
From: wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su)
Subject: male/female mystery [ Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time ]

In article <1993Apr1.191826.28921@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:

<apparently you're not a woman - my husband hates the auto door locks
>features, but forgets that besides families with children, a woman
<feels safer in a car that locks easily (in addition to watching around
>& checking out if anyone's near me when I get to my car - never park
<in a secluded spot, etc - have my keys ready to open the door so I'm
>not fumbling in my purse looking for them ....

This has me thinking.  Is there a biological reason why women can't put
their keys in their pants pockets like men do?  I have two pockets on the
back of each of my pants.  I put my keys in one and wallent in another.
Many of the pockets even have a botton on them so I can close them securely.
Everything is that much simpler for me.  Why can't women do the same?
Is is biological (ie, not enough room for a bigger bottom plus keys and
a wallet) or is it the way they are raised by the parents? 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101573
Subject: Convertibles
From: bouton@gertrude.cms.udel.edu (Katherine Bouton)

I was wondering if someone could point me to somewhere I could
find a list (and hopefully comparison) of all the convertibles that are
out these days. Seems like they are making a big comeback - but I'm not
sure where to look

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101574
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Toyota wagons


Has anybody noticed that Toyota has an uncanny knack for designing horrible
ugly station wagons?  Tercels, Corollas, Camrys.  Have their designers no
aesthetic sense at all?
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101575
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time


Cup holders (driving is an importantant enough undertaking)
Cellular phones and mobile fax machines (see above)
Vanity mirrors on the driver's side.
Ashtrays (smokers seem to think it's just fine to use the road)
Fake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.
Any gold trim.

-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101576
From: wdh@grouper.mkt.csd.harris.com (W. David Higgins)
Subject: '93 Ford Probe GT -- Engine problems?

One of the local dealers has a used (7k miles) '93 Probe GT
on the lot with a photocopy of a document taped to the
window saying the dealership bought the car back from
the previous owner because of "Engine noises", but that
the Ford district rep had OK'ed the car saying those
noises were "normal".  I thought it was worth looking
into (the car seems otherwise clean) and mentioned this
to a co-worker, who proceeded to tell me a horror story
about her son's '93 Probe GT, which had several problems,
ending with engine noises which she said "was something
with the heads", that Ford acknowledged the noise, said
they were working on it, but didn't have a cure as of
yet.  Her son traded the car in (and I checked -- not
the same car).  So I have some evidence of a reoccuring
problem with the V6 in the Probe GT's, and by extension
with the Madza 626 and MX-6.

Anything to this?  I'd love to consider buying the GT (I'm
turning 40 -- time for my scheduled mid life crisis :-)
but I'd hate to find out I just became the proud owner
of a Lemon.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101577
From: kenyon@xqzmoi.enet.dec.com (Doug Kenyon (Stardog Champion))
Subject: Re: Integra GSR (really about other cars)


It's great that all these other cars can out-handle, out-corner, and out-
accelerate an Integra.

But, you've got to ask yourself one question: do all these other cars have
a moonroof with a sliding sunshade?  No wimpy pop-up sunroofs or power
sliding roofs that are opaque.  A moonroof that can be opened to the air,
closed to let just light in, or shaded so that nothing comes in.

You've just got to know what's important :^).

-Doug
'93 Integra GS

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101578
From: shou@logos.asd.sgi.com (Tom Shou)
Subject: Ford Explorer 4WD - do I need performance axle?

We're considering getting a Ford Explorer XLT with 4WD and we have the
following questions (All we would do is go skiing -- no off-roading):

1. With 4WD, do we need the "performance axle" - (limited slip axle).
Its purpose is to allow the tires to act independently when the tires
are on different terrain. 

2. Do we need the all-terrain tires (P235/75X15) or will the
all-season (P225/70X15) be good enough for us at Lake Tahoe?


Thanks,


Tom

-- 


===========================================================================

        Tom Shou			Silicon Graphics
	shou@asd.sgi.com		2011 N. Shoreline Blvd. 
	415-390-5362			MS 8U-815 
	415-962-0494 (fax)		Mountain View, CA 94043

===========================================================================

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101579
From: sheinfel@ssd.comm.mot.com (Aviad Sheinfeld)
Subject: Re: Lo Jack

According to a LoJack representative I saw recently, LoJack must be installed by
an authorized LoJack dealer, and is placed in one of (roughly) 30 spots in the
car...

>Thanks,
>Steve M.  att.com!mantic!srmal

Sure,
Aviad

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101580
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Subject: Re: How hard to change springs on F350 truck?

Bottom line:  I did it and it worked.

Some 'tips and techniques' are included here:

In article <C4zzpn.Ax7@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>In article <1993Apr3.005245.10615@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
>>Does it take any peculiar tools to remove the rear springs from a Ford
>>F350 truck?  This is a 4x4 with leaf springs front and rear.
>>
>>So, with a big socket and an air wrench and a floor jack (and a 
>>hydrolic bottle jack ...) can I do this at home?  

I found that I needed some smaller sockets to undo the shocks.
And a can of WD40 helped...

The sockets needed were metric (exact fit) but I was able to use
some SAE sockets...  13/16 and 15/16 are rather close to 21 and 24mm...
It CAN be fun having a Canadian Ford ...

>>I'm pictureing this:  Undo U bolts.  Put a bottle jack on the axle
>>and raise the bed/frame to take stress off of the leaf spring.  Undo
>>the end bolts/bushings.  Drop the spring.  Turn the bottom leaf. 
>>Re-connect the spring bolts...
>
>Sounds about right.

Didn't have to undo the end bolts/bushings.  Just the 2 U bolts on
each side and the shock absorber.  Jacking up the frame some more
(had to put the spare tire on the garage floor and put a wooden 
platform on top of that to get the 'floor jack' high enough to
raise the frame ... I't one TALLL truck...) lifted the spring
free of the axel.  Taking out the block gave me enough room to
undo the pin holding the spring pack together.

The spring pack was held together with a nut on top and a round head
on the other end....  No wrench head...  Vice Grips worked fine...
I soaked the nut with WD40 and it came right off.

Flipped the bottom spring and then...

>>Is this a nightmare waiting to happen, or an easy, though physically
>>demanding, thing to do?
>
>Well, it's easier than doing a decent trigger job on a 1911A1 :-)
>(OK, well, maybe it's not _that_ easy, but it's not terribly
>difficult.)

I donno ... I'm a little more sore today than after working on a
1911A1 ...

A 1.5 foot pipe cheater was a real help.  Torque spec for the U bolt
nuts is 150 to 200 ft-lbs (!).   A 1911-A1 doesn't have that kind of
torque spec ...

It was a 'challenge' to get the 'pack bolt' back in the spring pack.  
Squeeze pack with two hands, hold bolt with third, put nut on
with fourth while picking up wrench and vice grips with fifth
and sixth hands ...  I used some string to tie the pack together
while holding the pin in for alignment... then I could let go
to get the {nut, wrench, Vice Grips...}.

Getting the pin back lined up with the lift block was a challenge too...
until I discovered that the axel had 1) Tilted and/or 2) rolled forward.

One the drivers side, a bottle jack under the front of the differential
tilted it back in line enough for the pin head to drop into the right
hole.  On the passenger side, I had to wrestle the wheel into rolling
forward about 1/2 inch to get things to line up.  Spent more than an
hour working on getting the pin head into the hole in the lift block
with levers and ropes and impliments of distruction before I took a 
break and thought about WHY it wasn't lined up anymore (since it HAD
been lined up before, and *I* didn't move it, something ELSE must 
have ... hmmm, axle no longer constrained not to move ... hmmm, move 
it back... hmmm...).

After that, it was all much easier to 'close up'.

BTW, the ride is now softer, but not quite as soft as I was hoping for.
At least it now sits level..

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101581
From: gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan)
Subject: Re: Are BMW's worth the price?            

>sure sounds like they got a ringer.  the 325is i drove was definitely
>faster than that.  if you want to quote numbers, my AW AutoFile shows
>0-60 in 7.4, 1/4 mile in 15.9.  it quotes Car and Driver's figures
>of 6.9 and 15.3.  oh, BTW, these numbers are for the 325i.

Car and Driver rated the 325is (1988) at 7.2 0-60 , 1/4 at 15.2 (after 30k miles) last time I checked 8#}.

Automobile magazine rated new 325is 1/4 mile@16.2.

Gee , aint quotiin funner than the dickens!

Sounds like we need a race.  I'll let you have the newer version.  Can someone out there lend me a 1988 325is for a day 8-].  I wont hurt it, I promise.

>i don't know how the addition of variable valve timing for 1993 affects it.
>but don't take my word for it.  go drive it.

Actually I will take your word on it.  I refuse to test it (new 325is) because
I love BMW's and would probably want to buy it.  Problem is, my income just doesn't support that.  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101582
From: jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all tim

In article <1ppg8b$fvq@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt) writes:
>>In article <1phoi3$s95@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) 
>>writes:
>>[stuff deleted...]
>>>
>>>The silly thing about this whole argument is that most of the trunk
>>>releases (I'm tempted to say all, but there's bound to be a
>>>counterexample) only operate if the car is on (ACC or running).  Thus
>>>you can't easily pop the trunk without starting the car.
>
>>"Most" cars?  The only cars I've ever seen with this "feature" have been
>>GM cars.  My `88 Mazda, '80 Honda, and (coming soon) '93 Probe all have
>>cable-operated releases [...].  My '84
>>Camaro had an electric hatch release that was (thankfully) independent of
>>the key in the ignition (the exception to the rule mentioned in my first
>>sentence).
>
>I should probably have said "glovebox trunk releases."  I haven't
>encountered any glovebox releases that are cable operated.  Numerous
>GM and several Ford/Mercury cars that I've encountered have electrical
>releases in the glovebox, and all of the ones I've seen needed the
>ignition on to some degree to operate.  Your Camaro example is noted,
>but since it's a hardtop it's not a big deal.  I've never run into a
>convertible with a cable-operated trunk release -- I'd agree 100% that
>in such an environment a cable or always-active electrical release
>would be rather stupid.
>
>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.com

My Honda has a cable release that can be locked out with the ignition key.
The valet key can be left with someone and will NOT unlock the trunk
or enable the cable release.

I remember my mothers '86 Corvette that had an electronic hatch release
located on the drivers door, which was ALWAYS active.  The fact that the
car had no real trunk makes the security measure of beign able to 
dis-able the hatch release unnecessary.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101583
From: dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff)
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

Left hand steering wheel placement was not standard until the 20's in the
US. Driving on the right has been standard since standards came into being.
Interestingly, Chrysler has just begun building right hand drive cars again
for export to Japan.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101584
From: dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff)
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

DeSoto's first year of manufacture was 1928, so this may indeed have been
an export special, as left hand controls were standard here by then.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101585
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: 1993 Infiniti G20

>In article <78834@cup.portal.com> carl_f_hoffman@cup.portal.com writes:
>>2) There is a special deal where I can get an Infinity G20, fully
>>   loaded, at dealer cost (I have check this out and the numbers match
>>   up). They are doing this because they are releasing and update mid-1993
>>   version (includes dual air-bags) and want to get rid of their old 1993's.

is this really the dealer's cost?  did you get the dealer's cost by
looking at the invoice?  there may be factory to dealer incentives.
i'd check this out, since i have trouble believing that a dealer would
sell a car to me at his cost.

dealer invoice is not necessarily the dealer cost.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101586
From: cfj@ssd.intel.com (Charlie Johnson)
Subject: Re: LH car order delay

In article <1993Apr2.135926.1@skcla.monsanto.com>, mas@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
|> I read an article in the 3/25 Chicago Tribune stating that Chrysler is
|> having problems addressing the demand for the 3.5L engine for it's LH
|> cars.  Can anyone post how long they are waiting for an ordered car or
|> how long they have been told they'll have to wait??
|> 
|> Thanks!
|> 
|> John Mas
|> 
|> 
|> E-Mail Address     ::     MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM
|> 
I ordered an Intrepid ES on Jan 25th and haven't seen it yet.  I called
a couple of weeks ago and was told 2-3 more weeks.  It's probably time
to call again.
-- 
Charles Johnson
Intel Corporation
Supercomputer Systems Division
MS CO1-01
15201 NW Greenbrier Pkwy
Beaverton, OR  97006           phone: (503)629-7605  email: cfj@ssd.intel.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101587
From: mutrh@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Todd R. Haverstock)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

>Well, you young fellers won't remember, but we used to have side vent
>front windows until some damn bean counter scrapped them. These were
>separate triangular windows at the leading edge of the front doors
>that pivoted outward at the rear edge. Worked like a charm.
 
Yeah, I loved the vent windows on my 82 Escort (hell, the only thing I liked
about the car).  One of the things I'd like to see brought back.  Does
anyone know if they're an option on the new Escorts?

TRH

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101588
From: zakir@leland.Stanford.EDU (Zakir Sahul)
Subject: Inflation in car prices


Anyone have figures or pointers to references about 
how fast/much car prices have gone up in the last decade?

Thanks.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101589
From: swdwan@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Donald Wan)
Subject: just testing

hello testing



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101590
From: swdwan@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Donald Wan)
Subject: $ 80 SVX OIL CHANGE
 





 My friend brought a subaru SVX recently.  I had drove it for couples times and I
think its a great car, esp on snow.  However when she took it to a local Subaru
dealer for a oil change, the bill came out to be about 80 dollars.  The dealer
told us it is because to change the oil filter on a SVX it is necessary to
disassemble a metal cover under the engine and that took an hour of labour.
At first, we think we are being ripped off so she phone to a dealer in Toronto
but found out the they are charging roughly the same price.  So is there any
SVX owner out there that has the same problem ?  And if the oil change story is
true, then the engineer of Subaru looks pretty stubid to me. By the way, the car
looks great.

SWD Wan.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101591
From: pminocha@frx400.intel.com (Punit Minocha - QRE)
Subject: SAAB Mailing list

Could someone out there please tell me how I could get onto
the Saab mailing list. Specifically I need the address and
instructions on what to do.

Thanks in advance

Pete



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101592
From: dunnjj@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (DUNN  JONATHAN JAMES)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) writes:


>Cup holders (driving is an importantant enough undertaking)

This is a good idea - so you can carry your (non-alcoholic) drinks without
spilling or having someone hold on to them.

>Cellular phones and mobile fax machines (see above)

Fax machines, yes.  Cellular phones:  Why not get a hands-free model?

>Fake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.

Seemingly unique to American luxury cars.  The Big Three haven't yet realized
that the 1970s are over.

>Any gold trim.

I agree.  Just another display of Yuppie excess.

>Jon Dunn<



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101593
From: pp@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (peter.peng)
Subject: need info on Mazda 626



I test drove a Mazda 626 LX this past weekend and 
liked it.

The dealer offered it for $15K.

1) Is this a good price?
2) Any comments on 626 in general? 

Please use email. Thanks 


Peter
att!hotsoup!peng

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101594
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR

In article <1993Apr5.234729.100387@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> daz1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DEMOSTHENIS A. ZEPPOS) writes:
>In article <3mwF2B1w165w@njcc.wisdom.bubble.org>, jonc@njcc.wisdom.bubble.org (J
>on Cochran) writes:
>>> >     I'd like to add the Beretta GTZ as a car which will kick GS-R butt
>>> >anyday, and it's a lot cheaper to boot

Comparing the GTZ and GSR is apples to oranges, somewhat like a Mustang 5.0
and a CRX, both have very different ways of doing things and ought to
appeal to different buyers, i.e., I don't think an Acura owner would
be seen dead in a Chevy dealership or vice versa.

[stuff deleted]

>are all -weather XGTV4, not to mention that the Integra rides alot better than

No Integra I have seen comes with all-season tires. 
The GTZ does come with much bigger 16" wheels.

>along with the Integra, and the car does that with small 14 inch tires that
>Your acceleartion times also vary, magazine to magazine
>Road & Track and Car& Driver have the GS-R at 6.8 to 8.0 for Road and Track.

The C+D figures are almost certainly bogus and based on a hot prototype
supplied by Acura. The MT figures are more plausible.

>Also Quarter mile times vary from 15.4 to 16.1
16.1 sounds reasonable, probably faster than regular Integras.

>>     So, the Beretta can out handle the Integra and it can certainly keep
>>up with it in acceleration.  And the Beretta probably has a higher top
>>speed due to the horsepower advantage (160/117 (hp/torque) for the
>>Integra vs. 180/160 for the Beretta).
>***You always believe those exact numbers, why don't you drive a GS-R, and see
>for your self, while the GS-R has a low 117 torqye, its high gearing over a 8000

The GSR gearing is horrible for day to day driving. It needs a 6 speed
box more than any other modern car. Essentially 5th in a regualr Integra
equals 4th in the GSR, and the regular Integras are very buzzy at speed.

>rpm make up for the difference (still wouldn't call it a torque moster though!)
>
>>Considering you save almost $3,000 dollars for the Beretta, and the Quad4
>>is a reliable engine, it doesn't make sense to get the Integra as a

The only person I knew with a GTZ had it bought back by GM as a lemon. It
was a piecve of junk, but very quick for FWD.

>Quad 4 reliable, yeah, what's your definition of reliable- if that's reliable,
>then its safe to say that integra engines in general are near perfect

The only GSR owner I know had the engine throw a rod with less than 5k
miles, a rare screw up by Honda.
Both the GTZ and GSR are flawed cars. The performance enthusiasts would take
the GTZ and the CR purchase would be the GSR.


Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101595
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: MGBs and the real world

In article <1993Apr5.181056.29411@mks.com> mike@mks.com (Mike Brookbank) writes:
>My sister has an MGB.  She has one from the last year they were produced
>(1978? 1979?).  Its in very good shape.  I've been bugging her for years
>about selling it.  I've said over and over that she should sell it
>before the car is worthless while she maintains that the car may
>actually be increasing in value as a result of its limited availability.
>

Grass Roots Motorsport [3/93] has a long article about MG/B's this month.
As far as collectivity/speculation is concerned they think it is a 
waste of time, especially the later rubber bumpered models are the least
desirable, a 1962 original model the most. The reasons for its low
value are easy availability and the fact that it just was not a very good
car.

Craig
>Which one of us is right?  Are there MGB affectionados out there who are
>still willing to pay $6K to 8K for an old MG?  Are there a lot out in the 
>market?
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mike Brookbank,                 |MKS| 35 King St. North       mike@mks.com 
>Director, InterOpen Sales,      |MKT| Waterloo, Ontario      (519)884-2251 
>Mortice Kern Systems Inc.       |MKS| Canada, N2J 2W9    fax (519)884-8861

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101596
From: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Subject: vw passat? (again)


kojo@valet.phx.mcd.mot.com (Kojo Yeboah) writes:

KY>To all those who have PASSATs, do you recommend using Super Unleaded or just
KY>regular Unleaded Gasoline. I have been using Regular Unleaded. A friend of mine has
KY>a Jetta and has always used Super Unleaded and thinks I should be using the same;
KY>however, I believe the advantages of Super Unleaded for CARs $30000 and under
KY>has been overplayed by guess who: the companies who sell them, because that is
KY>where they make the most PROFIT. A Ralph Nader report and other consumer advocates
KY>have in the past spoken against those oil companies.

Your Passat VR6 is designed to run on premium gasoline, however the
engine electronics will retard the timing so that no harm wil be done
to the engine with lower octane fuel.

You will likely, however, get somewhat more power and fuel mileage
(especially in hot weather) out of this particular engine if you do
run it on premium. 

Tom Neumann
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #350  I sell Volkswagens.
--
Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario
416-629-7000/629-7044

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101597
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Toyota wagons

In article <1993Apr5.213032.26844@pmafire.inel.gov> russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown) writes:
>In article <1pq6bl$9rj@news.ysu.edu> ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) writes:
>>Has anybody noticed that Toyota has an uncanny knack for designing horrible
>>ugly station wagons?  Tercels, Corollas, Camrys.  Have their designers no
>>aesthetic sense at all?
>>-- 
>The new Camry Wagon may just be even uglier than my Tercel.   :-)

toyota has cornered the market on ugly station wagons.
after seeing the new camry sedan, i had thought toyota would
finally turn out something nice-looking.  the new camry station
wagon bears a strong resemblance to a hearse, and a weird looking
one at that.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101598
From: dunnjj@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (DUNN  JONATHAN JAMES)
Subject: Re: Photo radar (was Re: rec.autos: Frequently Asked Questions)

>Photo radar and mailed tickets make no sense at all. Speeding is a moving 
>violation, committed by the operator, not the owner. The owner may be a 
>rental agency, a dealer, a private party, or a government agency. As long
>as the owner has no reason to expect the operator will be driving illegally
>or unsafely, the owner cannot be held responsible for what the operator does.
>The car may even have been driven without the owner's knowledge or consent. 
>I can't believe a mailed ticket, where the driver is not identified, would 
>stand up in court. This is obviously a lazy, cynical, boneheaded, fascist 
>way to extort revenue, and has nothing to do with public safety.

>- BK

What do photo radar units look like?  Also, what major U.S. cities use it?

>Jon Dunn<




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101599
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000


Your best bet is the Dodge Intrepid with the SOHC 24 valve 3.4? six.
it gets 214 hp, and has a hell of a lot of room, great styling, and
ABS, with four wheel disk breaks.  The LH cars won Automobile 
magazines 
"automobile of the year" award, and are quiet impressive.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101600
From: fsmlm2@acad3.alaska.edu (Rebelheart)
Subject: ALASKA CAR SHOW

        PENINSULA CRUISERS THIRD ANNUAL AUTOFAIRE

WHAT:  CAR SHOW (FOR ANY AND ALL TYPES OF VEHICLES INCLUDING PEDAL CARS)
WHERE:  KENAI MALL, KENAI, ALASKA
WHEN:  MAY 14, 15, & 16, 1993
WHO: PENINSULA CRUISERS CAR CLUB, KENAI, AK (907-283-4979)
WHY:  PROCEEDS OF THIS EVENT TO BENEFIT THE COOPER LANDING AMBULANCE CORPS.

GENERAL:  THIS CAR SHOW IS OPEN TO ALL TYPES OF CARS, TRUCKS, MOTORCYCLES, 
          FACTORY AND MODIFIED, MILD TO WILD, ANTIQUE, SPECIAL INTERESTS,       
          RACE, DRAG, MUDDERS, HI-PO, OR JUST PLAIN  UGLY :)

THIS IS A FUN EVENT, INTENDED FOR THE OCCASSIONAL GEAR-HEAD TO THE MOST
SERIOUS GEAR-SLAMMER.  WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AS MANY ENTRANTS AS POSSIBLE, 
BUT PLEASE CONTACT US FOR SPACE AVAILABILITY ( FIRST COME FIRST SERVE)

P.S.  ALL OUT OF TOWN ENTRANTS CAN STAY RIGHT NEXT DOOR AT THE 
        KENAI MERRIT INN FOR A SPECIAL RATE OF $60 A NIGHT 
        (SINGLE OR DOUBLE OCCUPANCY) CALL THE MERIT @
        907-283-6131

IF YOU'D LIKE ANY FURTHER INFORMATION, YOU CAN CONTACT ME AT THE 
ADDRESSES BELOW. 

 Mel McKay----cant drive 55!!!!!!! & Rebelheart, a gorgeous 90 SuperCoupe
Remember ....55 saves lives, 110 saves twice as many :)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=           Rebelheart                 	    |                                  =
=					    |"Too old for some things...       =
=  #define BITNET <FSMLM2@ALASKA>	    |   Too young to know 	       =
=  #define E-MAIL <FSMLM2@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU> |         which things."           =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101601
From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate)
Subject: Re: Was "Re: Safety": From how far can you see a car ?

In article <C4rvKM.367@plato.ds.boeing.com> simnet@plato.ds.boeing.com (Mark R Poulson) writes:
>ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>> You will be surprised at the number of people who forget their glasses
>> while driving.  And then there are the people who just plain don't get
>> their eyes checked once a year.
>
>As someone who has lousy vision, I can see objects at a distance without
>my glasses. However, they are quite fuzzy and I may not be able to make
>out the details. But I can certainly tell that SOMETHING is there.


  I won't argue too much about anything.  I am probably one of those that 
think that we can't have enough safety on the roads.  I would gladly 
sacrifice distractions (as you call it), than someone having trouble seeing
danger earlier.  One saved life justifies more than my lifetime of "distractions"
for me.


>>  And then there is dawn and dusk.  When your eyes have not yet adjusted
>> to the poor light.  And there are those who drive black/grey cars. And
>> then there is the case where you are driving down a two-way one lane 
>> road, and someone is overtaking cars, and coming the opposite direction 
>> doesn't see you because your lights are not on. Or vice versa.  At 60mph, 
>> that is quite a small reaction time.  But of course, we are too macho to 
>> think we are invincible and can react faster than that.... Only the poor 
>> sod who you didn't see might not have a normal life ever...
>
>I worked out the reaction time in a previous post and its PLENTY, even for
>an 80 year old grandma, as long as speeds are in the 60 MPH range or less.
>If you or some other driver is going way faster than that, then be careful.
>
>As always, you are responsible for your driving actions. If you pull out to
>pass and crash into someone (for whatever reason) its YOUR fault. If you can't


   Problem is that, I may just kill the guy. I agree that I would be at fault,
and I will have my license revoked, why, I might even go to the gas chamber.
But the fact still remains that the guy is dead.  Someone died because I
was too stingy to put on my lights. 


>see a damn thing, then you shouldn't be driving -- lights fail, fallen trees
>or rocks don't have lights, etc....  I maintain that headlight strength


   The ratio of the probability of fallen trees/rocks on the roads to 
oncoming traffic is too low to even be considered.  The difference is also
working on what we *know* could happen, to what *might* happen.


>running lights are not necessary for motorists who drive around 60MPH. It may
>be a good idea to force the running or headlights on when you turn your
>windshield wipers on, but only because some people are too stupid to do so.
>If you crash into one of those idiots, you have to fight it out in court to
>show his neglegence (if you can even prove it).


>>  Just out of curiosity, how much gas-milage do you loose when you put
>> your lights on?  And how much do you reduce the life of your head-lamps?
>> And what is the cost of your headlamps anyway?
>
>Mileage is certainly reduced, but by a very very small amount (probably
>about 110 watts for head and running lights). This is an extra 1/7 horsepower
>that must be made by the engine. It may be that this will cost you around two 
>gallons a year. But times 200 million cars, that's a lot of gas.

  Compared to the number of gallons of gas consumed by those 200 million cars,
it is miniscule! 

  Whatever.....  'tis a pity I have to share the same roads with a person
not concerned with safety.

-S
ssave@ole.cdac.com


>Lamp life is measured in hours. So if you normally drive in half daylight and
>half night, your lamps will have to be replaced twice as often. Headlamps
>only cost about $10US for most halogen lamps.
>
>The cost to the individual is trivial and to me is not the issue. What I
>don't like is the distractions all these cars with headlights cause. I don't
>need to constantly see the headlights of the vehicle behind me. I don't need
>to see the headlights of every gosh darn car for a mile down the road. These
>lit up cars make non-illuminated things LESS visible (like pedistrians and
>bikes). Hopefully we're not going to mandate DRL's for people and bikes 
>too.
>
>A stream of taillights is tolerable as are the orange front running lights.
>This is certainly sufficient for other people to see you (if they look) and
>doesn't distract me nearly as much as full power headlights.
>
>		Mark



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101602
From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate)
Subject: Quick question

 How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside
on an '87 Honda Prelude?  The speaker went scratchy, and I want
to access its pins.

 I see only one press button and the rest is snug fit.


 -S
 ssave@ole.cdac.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101603
From: lmann@jjmhome.UUCP (Laurie Mann)
Subject: Clothing (Was  Re: male/female mystery [ Re: Dumbest automotive...])

In article <1pima2INN180@gap.caltech.edu>, wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su) writes:
> This has me thinking.  Is there a biological reason why women can't put
> their keys in their pants pockets like men do?  I have two pockets on the
> back of each of my pants.  I put my keys in one and wallent in another.
> Many of the pockets even have a botton on them so I can close them securely.
> Everything is that much simpler for me.  Why can't women do the same?
> Is is biological (ie, not enough room for a bigger bottom plus keys and
> a wallet) or is it the way they are raised by the parents? 

Oh PULLEEZE!

It's not biology at all, it's clothing design.  Women's clothing is
generally designed to be as non-functional as possible.  It's only been
in the last five years or so that you could buy women's pants with
pockets deep enough to carry anything in.  Previously, deep pockets were
virtually unknown in women's clothing.  Skirts generally have better
pockets now, too.  Dresses, espcially fancy dresses, are still pretty
hopeless.  I often hand my driver's license over to my husband if we're
dressed up to go out somewhere, so I don't have to be encumbered by a
purse.

If women consistently bought functional clothing, and boycotted the
manufacturers who refuse to make functional women's clothing, I think
manufacturers would tend to bow to market pressures.  There's
an interesting chapter in Susan Faludi's Backlash that described
what happened the LAST time clothing manufacturers ignored the
need for functional women's clothing.  The manufactuing industry
lost millions.

From a woman who would rather buy men's clothing WITH decent pockets and
long legs and high waists than women's clothing without....






-- 
******** lmann@jjmhome.uucp (Internet) Laurie.Mann (GEnie) *********
** Claiming that sex education leads to irresponsible sex is like **
*****  claiming that driver education leads to car accidents.  *****

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101604
From: hhtra@usho0b.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Subject: Re: Looking to buy Dodge Stealth, have questions

In article <1993Apr2.030031.15691@cactus.org>, boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr1.104746@usho72.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:

 I found a Mopar spec sheet this weekend:

               model         wgt    hp
             Stealth         3086   164
             Stealth ES      3186   222
             Stealth RT      3373   222
             Stealth RT TT   3803   300

 Okay, I'll take "their" word for it.


> I am giving every chance to retract figures widely known. The Mustang is
> rated at 205.  222-205 is 17. You have a 17hp advantage over a Mustang

 Seems that the 1993 Mustang 5.0 is rated at 205 hp ONLY because Ford
 changed its testing procedures.  Under the older procedures, it still 
 rates closer to 225 hp.  That means that the Mustang has 3 hp more.
 
 And you still haven't posted any weight figures for the Mustang.


> Big threat. You are KO'd by a Civic, acording to C+D 

 Yeah, sure, in your wet dreams.  And that's probably where you got 
 that 11.2 second 0-60 for the Stealth.


>> I'll check C&D's 5/91 issue.  Strange that you claim to have that 
>
> Go ahead and check asshole, you'll realize what an idiot you are for not
> checking data beforeposting. Car+ Drive, may 91. Stealth ES, 222hp,
> automatic.

 For 3 posts now you've been harping on this May 1991 issue of Car & Driver
 without posting any numbers.  Why not?  Because they prove me right and you
 ain't got the guts to admit it?  Yeah, thought so.


> The Sentra SE-R really is alot quicker than the 222hp FWD Sports car.
> You are close to the 9k sentra-e. Go look up the numbers in C+D - and
> report please.

 No, I'm going to play your game -

       No way, Sentra's are SLOW!  I took a test drive and it took
       21.7 to go 0-50!  Why, even the Hyundai Excel blows it doors
       off.  Any 12 yr old knows that!  I race and I'll kick your butt! 
       blah, blah, blah...

 Let's see ...  yep, that sounds just like you. 
 Oh man, I just got it!  Beavis & Butthead - that's you!


> Who would buy a FWD automatic, that costs $20K+ that is capable of only
> a 15.8 and would plainly be dusted by a SE-R?

 I dunno, why did you?

 But why would someone pick the Dodge Stealth RT over the Nissan Sentra?
 All it takes is one look.

 
 TRAVIS

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101605
From: zowie@daedalus.stanford.edu (Craig "Powderkeg" DeForest)
Subject: Re: 5W30, 10W40, or 20W50

In article <foo> Brad Thone <C09615BT@WUVMD> writes:
Well, there *is* a difference.

I don't happen to have my SAE manual handy, but oil viscosity in general
_decreases_ with temperature.  The SAE numbers are based on a `typical'
curve that oils used to all have, running from (say) the viscosity of a
room-temperature 90-weight at 0C, down to (say) that of a room-temperature 
5-weight at 20C, for a typical 40-weight oil.

Oils that are designed for operation in `normal' temperatures just have
a weight specification.  Oils that are designed for operation in exceedingly
cold temperatures have a `W' tacked on the end, so in winter in a cold
place, you'd stick 10W in your car in the winter and 40 in it in the summer,
to approximate the appropriate viscosity throughout the year.

Modern multi-viscosity oils change viscosity much less with temperature.
As a result, their viscosity graphs cross over several curves.  A multi-vis
specification pegs the curve at two temperatures, a `normal' operating
temperature and a `cold' one (though I can't remember the numbers...).

In any event, the weights do indicate a significant difference.  Remember
that your engine is temperature-regulated (by the thermostat and
radiator or air fins) most of the time -- unless you overheat it or
something.

Any weight of oil is better than no oil, or than very old, carbonized
oil.  Thin oil won't (in general) lubricate as well at temperature,
thicker oil will (like a 20W50) will lubricate better at temperature, 
but not as well during startup, when most engine wear occurs.  

If you're planning on making long drives, the 20W50 is probably fine
(esp. in the summer) in your 10W40 car.  But if you're making short drives,
stick to the 10W40.


--
DON'T DRINK SOAP! DILUTE DILUTE! OK!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101607
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Looking to buy Dodge Stealth, have questions

In article <1993Apr5.203719@usho0b.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho0b.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
>In article <1993Apr2.030031.15691@cactus.org>, boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>|> In article <1993Apr1.104746@usho72.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
>
> I found a Mopar spec sheet this weekend:

>
>               model         wgt    hp
>             Stealth         3086   164
>             Stealth ES      3186   222
>             Stealth RT      3373   222
>             Stealth RT TT   3803   300
>
> Okay, I'll take "their" word for it.

These arethe numbers I have been stating in the past 5-10 messages. It
really angers me that you insisted you were right, and that you had
no clue what your own car weighed. Why didn't you check when I first
told you that your figures were implausible?


>

>
>> I am giving every chance to retract figures widely known. The Mustang is
>> rated at 205.  222-205 is 17. You have a 17hp advantage over a Mustang
>
> Seems that the 1993 Mustang 5.0 is rated at 205 hp ONLY because Ford
> changed its testing procedures.  Under the older procedures, it still 
> rates closer to 225 hp.  That means that the Mustang has 3 hp more.
> 
I'd like to hear a better explanatin of how you come to that 
conclusion from the above data.

>
>> Big threat. You are KO'd by a Civic, acording to C+D 
>
> Yeah, sure, in your wet dreams.  And that's probably where you got 
No, sorry your wrong again. *You* quoted the del Sol as doing 0-60 in
8.1 according to C+D. Interestingly, the Stealth ES, which is
*faster* than your RT does the samerun in 8.5 seconds according to
C+D. Kind of embarassing isn't it? Why didn't you check the figures

before posting? It only makes you look stupid when you are caught out
twice with *your own* figures.

> that 11.2 second 0-60 for the Stealth.
>
>
>>> I'll check C&D's 5/91 issue.  Strange that you claim to have that 

You really should have checked.

>>
>> Go ahead and check asshole, you'll realize what an idiot you are for not
>> checking data beforeposting. Car+ Drive, may 91. Stealth ES, 222hp,
>> automatic.
>
> For 3 posts now you've been harping on this May 1991 issue of Car & Driver
      *2*
> without posting any numbers.  Why not?  Because they prove me right and you
> ain't got the guts to admit it?  Yeah, thought so.
>
If you insist, I gave you every chance to retract, but:

  Dodge Stealth ES Auto does an 8.5/16.4 - Wonder why you couldn't find it?

Do you realize that a 9k Sentra (C+D) will run a 16.7, that a Sentra SE-R or Saturn
will run in the 15's? Don't you think it is kind of strange that your
222hp sports car is so easily beaten. 

A Mustang 5.0, which weights about the same (according to *your* numbers),
has less power and is much quicker? Care to explain. Don't be abusive,
just try and come up with a rational explanation of where those 222hp
went to, its a mystery to me.

>> The Sentra SE-R really is alot quicker than the 222hp FWD Sports car.
>> You are close to the 9k sentra-e. Go look up the numbers in C+D - and
>> report please.
>
> No, I'm going to play your game -

>
>       No way, Sentra's are SLOW!  I took a test drive and it took
>       21.7 to go 0-50!  Why, even the Hyundai Excel blows it doors

I guess you drove a 5 speed and couldn't shift/
Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101608
From: kak@hico2.westmark.com (Kris A. Kugel)
Subject: Storing a car long term

I bought a car with a defunct engine, to use for parts
for my old but still running version of the same car.

The car I bought has good tires.

Is there anything in particular that I should do to
store the defunct car long-term?  I'd hate to have
parts of it go bad.  Someone has told me it's bad
for the tires to not move the car once-in-a-while.
Is this true?   Do I need some props to take the
weight of the tires?

Best to reply by mail, I am getting spotty news delivery.

Kris A. Kugel	908-842-2707
hico2!kak	kak@hico2.westmark.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101609
From: "Daniel U. Holbrook" <dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

>>
>>The reason I ask is because I went to a classic car meet here in the UK,
>>and saw a very nice old De Soto, 1920's vintage I'd guess, with wooden
>>artillery type wheels, etc, but it was right-hand drive. I can't believe
>>that DeSoto produced RHD cars just for the UK....

Well Sweden and Australia, and lord knows wherever else used to drive on
the "wrong" side of the road, so the export market might have been
larger then than just the UK.

>i'm guessing, but i believe in the twenties we probably drove mostly down
>cattle trails and in wagon ruts.  I am fairly sure that placement of the 
>steering wheel was pretty much arbitrary to the company at that time.....

By the 1920s, there was a very active "good roads" movement, which had
its origins actually in the 1890s during the bicycle craze, picked up
steam in the teens (witness the Linclon Highway Association, 1912 or so,
and the US highway support act (real name: something different) in 1916
that first pledged federal aid to states and counties to build decent
roads. Also, the experience of widespread use of trucks for domestic
transport during WW 1 convinced the government that good raods were
crucial to our national defense.  Anyway, by the 20s there were plenty
of good roads, at least around urban areas, and they were rapidly
expanding into the countryside.  This was the era, after all, of the
first auto touring fad, the motel, the auto camp ground, etc. Two good
books on the subject spring to mind - Warren Belasco "America on the
Road" (title may not be exact - author is) and another called "The Devil
Wagon in God's Country" author I forget.  Also, any of John Flink's  or
John Bell Rae's auto histories.

As to placement of the steering wheel being arbitrary, by the early
teens there were virtually no American cars that did not have the wheel
on the left.  In the early days, cars had the wheel on the left, on the
right, and even in the middle, as well as sometimes having a tiller
instead of a wheel.  This was standardized fairly early on, though I
don't know why.


Dan
dh3q@andrew.cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University
Applied History

"World history strides on from catastrophe to catastrophe, whether we
can comprehend and prove it or not."
               Oswald Spengler





Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101610
From: Steve.Green@its.csiro.au (Steve Green)
Subject: Any Subaru Liberty owners out there?

I've had my Subaru Liberty 4WD station wagon for about 8 months now. Saying
I'm happy with it would be an understatement!

Just great. Well built, handles beautifully, plenty of power. I've only
had if 'off tar' once. Did a trip over the mountains on a narrow, windy
dirt road, often _very dodgey_ in parts. The Subaru did it with ease.
I havent had so much fun driving a car for years!

Any other owners out there?

************************************************************************
* Steve Green      * "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit outa' my hat!" *
* Comms Group      * "That trick never works"                          *
* ITS Branch       * "Nothin' up my sleeve - PRESTO!"                  *
* CSIRO Australia  * "No doubt about it - I gotta get another hat"     *
************************************************************************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101611
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Subject: Re: Difference between Lexus 300 series?

From article <1993Apr5.200048.23421@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, by lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric Lorenzo):
> 	What is the difference between the LS300, ES300 and GS300?  Seems
> Lexus can't stop popping out new models.

--Let me put it like this.  The only similarity between the three models
  is the "300", or 3-liter engine displacement.  Actually, the SC300 (the
  coupe) and the GS300 (the funky-looking new sedan) share the same 3.0
  liter inline-six, and the ES300 (popular small sedan) uses 3.0 V6 shared
  with the Camry.  The SC300 is a luxury/sports coupe, the GS300 is the new
  luxury sedan, and the ES300 is the base executive sedan.  All three look
  completely different.

--Aamir Qazi
-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101612
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (CarolinaFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000

rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen) writes:


>Your best bet is the Dodge Intrepid with the SOHC 24 valve 3.4? six.
>it gets 214 hp, and has a hell of a lot of room, great styling, and
>ABS, with four wheel disk breaks.  The LH cars won Automobile 
>magazines 
>"automobile of the year" award, and are quiet impressive.

	Is the 24v LH under $16K, though?


-- 
Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois/Urbana Champaign mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************************************************************
*"Because he was human      Because he had goodness      Because he was moral*
***************They called him insane..."  Peart "Cinderella Man"*************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101613
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (CarolinaFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Saturn's Pricing Policy

cs012055@cs.brown.edu (Hok-Chung Tsang) writes:

>In article <C4vIr5.L3r@shuksan.ds.boeing.com>, fredd@shuksan (Fred Dickey) writes:
>|> CarolinaFan@uiuc (cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>|> : 	
>|> : 	The biggest problem some people seem to be having is that Saturn
>|> : Dealers make ~$2K on a car.  I think most will agree with me that the car is
>|> : comparably priced with its competitors, that is, they aren't overpriced 
>|> : compared to most cars in their class.  I don't understand the point of 
>|> : arguing over whether the dealer makes the $2K or not?  
>|> 
>|> I have never understood what the big deal over dealer profits is either.
>|> The only thing that I can figure out is that people believe that if
>|> they minimize the dealer profit they will minimize their total out-of-pocket
>|> expenses for the car. While this may be true in some cases, I do not
>|> believe that it is generally true. I bought a Saturn SL in January of '92.
>|> AT THAT TIME, based on studying car prices, I decided that there was
>|> no comparable car that was priced as cheaply as the Saturn. Sure, maybe I
>|> could have talked the price for some other car to the Saturn price, but
>|> my out-of-pocket expenses wouldn't have been any different. What's important
>|> to me is how much money I have left after I buy the car. REDUCING DEALER PROFIT
>|> IS NOT THE SAME THING AS SAVING MONEY! Show me how reducing dealer profit
>|> saves me money, and I'll believe that it's important. My experience has
>|> been that reducing dealer profit does not necessarily save me money.
>|> 
>|> Fred


>Say, you bought your Saturn at $13k, with a dealer profit of $2k.
>If the dealer profit is $1000, then you would only be paying $12k for
>the same car.  So isn't that saving money?
	
	Yes.  But the point is that prices are competetive.  Saturn may
well be selling a car intended on giving the dealer a $2000 profit, but 
since a comperable Honda with $500 profit is more expensive, it may be well
worth it to buy the Saturn.

>Moreover, if Saturn really does reduce the dealer profit margin by $1000, 
>then their cars will be even better deals.  Say, if the price of a Saturn was
>already $1000 below market average for the class of cars, then after they
>reduce the dealer profit, it would be $2000 below market average.  It will:

>1) Attract even more people to buy Saturns because it would SAVE THEM MONEY.
> 
>2) Force the competitors to lower their prices to survive.

>Now, not only will Saturn owners benefit from a lower dealer profit, even 
>the buyers for other cars will pay less.


	Not necessarily.  It seems to me that Saturn salesdroids, who don't 
make a commision, whereas their counterparts at other dealerships generally
do, make more $$ per hour or whatever.  This means that Saturn doesn't give up
the profit to their employees through commision, which IS taken out of per-
car profits.  They just pass it along to less pressureing salesmen/women.

>Isn't that saving money?

	Maybe.  Maybe not.  Depends on accounting practices.  I'd rather pay
more for dealer service that doesn't cut corners to contain costs...


>$0.02,
>doug.

$2/100
CKA
'87 (Carolina) Blue Honda Civic DX


-- 
Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois/Urbana Champaign mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************************************************************
*"Because he was human      Because he had goodness      Because he was moral*
***************They called him insane..."  Peart "Cinderella Man"*************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101614
From: rgc3679@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert G. Carpenter)
Subject: Thinking About Buying Intrepid - Good or Bad Idea?

I'm thinking of buying a new Dodge Intrepid - Has anyone had any
experiences that they'd like to share?

Thanks.

BobC


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101615
From: zowie@daedalus.stanford.edu (Craig "Powderkeg" DeForest)
Subject: Re: Quick question

In article <foo> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
    How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside
   on an '87 Honda Prelude?  The speaker went scratchy, and I want
   to access its pins.

Why are you posting this tripe to rec.autos.vw?
--
DON'T DRINK SOAP! DILUTE DILUTE! OK!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101616
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Spark Plug question?

In article <mgolden.733994052@cwis> mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden) writes:
>  The nice thing about REAL platinum plugs is that you don't have to change
>them very often at all.  (I think like 50,000 miles!!)  They might cost $10
>each, but they would save for themselves in the long run.

My T-Bird SC's manual says to replace the platinum plugs every 60,000mi.
Wal-Mart has Autolite platinum plugs for $2.00 each. Are these "real"
platinum plugs? (I had Bosch platinums in my '80 Fiesta and my dad
had 'em in his '84 Bronco--note the keyword "had." They didn't last
very long (much less than 50,000mi) before they had to be replaced.
I agree that they weren't the greatest.)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101618
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

In article <YfkBJQS00Uh_E9TFo_@andrew.cmu.edu> "Daniel U. Holbrook" <dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>
>
[stuff about RHD deSoto's deleted]

>Well Sweden and Australia, and lord knows wherever else used to drive on
Australians still do drive on the "wrong" side of the road. I believe
Sweden changed in 1968. The way I heard it was that they swapped
all the traffic signs around one Sunday....

>the "wrong" side of the road, so the export market might have been
>larger then than just the UK.
>
Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101619
From: ct22@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Constantino  Tobio)
Subject: Re: Quick Question

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Quick question
Summary:
Expires:
References: <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com>
Sender:
Reply-To: ct22@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Constantino  Tobio)
Followup-To:
Distribution: 
Organization: Columbia University
Keywords: Removing panels.

In article <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
> How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside
>on an '87 Honda Prelude?  The speaker went scratchy, and I want
>to access its pins.
>
> I see only one press button and the rest is snug fit.
>
>
> -S
> ssave@ole.cdac.com

Quick question. Why are you posting this to a VW newsgroup?

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Quick Question
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: Columbia University
Keywords: 

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Quick question
Summary:
Expires:
References: <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com>
Sender:
Reply-To: ct22@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Constantino  Tobio)
Followup-To:
Distribution: 
Organization: Columbia University
Keywords: Removing panels.

In article <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
> How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside
>on an '87 Honda Prelude?  The speaker went scratchy, and I want
>to access its pins.
>
> I see only one press button and the rest is snug fit.
>
>
> -S
> ssave@ole.cdac.com

Quick question. Why are you posting this to a VW newsgroup?
Constantino Tobio, Jr.                              ** ct22@columbia.edu **
"Tremble you weaklings, cower in fear, I am your ruler, land, sea and air.
 Immense in my girth, erect I stand tall, I'm a nuclear murderer.
 I am POLARIS!"      - Megadeth, "Rust in Peace"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101620
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Subject: Re: saturn -- puzzled by its pricing

In article <1993Apr1.230642.5207@cbfsb.cb.att.com> ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu) writes:
>
>	I am the person who started out this subject.
>
>	To me, the question really is not about dealer profit but the
>	amount of money for the type of car. I've settled with a
>	new 92 Subaru Wagon with the similar amount of money a Saturn
>	dealer asked for a SW1. OK, I know it's a 92 model, but I think
>	I got a better car (though I have to adjust my initial idea of 
>	why I am getting a new car).
>
>	Today, during a conversion with a friend, I learned he rejected
>	a Saturn for a Ford Tarurs; as it only costed him a little bit more
>	than a SL2. I may be wrong, but a loaded Tarus beats a Saturn SL2.

	I agree that a fully-loaded SL2 would come close in price to a
LOWER-END Ford Taurus.  A FULLY-LOADED Taurus, on the other hand, would still
be substantially more expensive than even the most glitzy SL2.  A fully loaded
SL2 would run somewhere around $17,000, while a fully loaded Taurus LX would be
somewhere around the $22,000-$23,000 range.  A base Taurus (GL I believe) might
start around $15,000.  Of course there is the Taurus SHO which can push $30,000
if you really try, but this is a totally different car than your mainstream
Taurus sedan.  Your statement was not entirely faulty, just a little
inaccurate.

>
>	I can't see Saturn is of better value and that is why I was puzzled
>	by its pricings. Oh, we did not spend much time getting our deals;
>	being better informed has its advantages.

Well, that's ok.  At least you're not bitching about dealer profits like some
of the other netters are.  You seem to have rationally picked out the car that
is best for you.  The Loyale is an aging design that is about to be replaced by
the Impreza wagon, so you probably got a good deal on one of the last ones.

>	
>	Then again, I may be wrong.
>
>Yung-Kao Hsu
>

Mihir Shah
mps1@cec1.wustl.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101621
From: pp@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (peter.peng)
Subject: 1990 Integra LS for sale



********* 1990 Integra LS for Sale *********

5 speed, sunroof, rear spoiler, new tires
59.7K miles

$ 7950 or best offer.

call 908-949-0878
     908-938-4101

email att!hotsoup!peng

*********************************************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101622
From: lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric Lorenzo)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR

In article <1993Apr5.234729.100387@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> daz1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DEMOSTHENIS A. ZEPPOS) writes:
>Why don't you look again at Motor Trend's, slalom times, they are 67.9, right
>along with the Integra, and the car does that with small 14 inch tires that
>are all -weather XGTV4, not to mention that the Integra rides alot better than
>a Beretta.

	My GS came with XGT V4s and they are NOT all weather tires.  I took
out my right front bumper sliding on packed snow (not ice), before I learned
this fact.  I immediately bought XGT H4s which are definately all-weather.
A Carrera 4 I walk by everyday has XGT V4s on it even.  The Michelin dealer
where I bought my new tires said the V4s were made out of a different 
rubber that gets really hard and slick when the weather gets near feezing.  
Said he'd only try to sell me those tires during the winter if we were in
Texas and not Colorado.

Thanks,
Eric



-- 
     --    O       An inactive lifestyle               Eric J. Lorenzo
   ---   </\_  violates our genetic warranty   lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU
  ---  -\/\       Not to excercise is not            also @spot & @ucsu
    ---   /_         to be fully human.    -Keith Johnsgard

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101623
From: m-it2691@DOC.CS.NYU.EDU (Tim Tsai)
Subject: AWD BMW


  Any truth to the rumor of an AWD 3-series for '94?  I believe
this info was published in either Popular Science or AutoWeek
a couple of months ago.

  Also, a friend told me that BMW used to make an AWD 325 called
the 325ix.  I'd appreciate any info about this car too.  Thanks..

  Thanks.

  Tim

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101624
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Subject: Re: Saturn performance(was Re: saturn -- puzzled by its pricing

In article <4fjDcfu00iV2I9Kap_@andrew.cmu.edu> "Jason M. Roth" <jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>I can't imagine any Civic or Saturn owners flex'n there egos in stop light
>>races. It generates as much excitement as two nerds challenging each other
>>in a game of one-on-one basketball!!
>
>The SL2 does 0-60 in about 8.5; note that this is closer to a 968 than
>to a Paseo or Storm (pseudo-sporty cars). That's a ridiculous
>comparison, I know, but the point is that Saturns (and high-end Civics,
>for that matter) accelerate just fine, in fact better than most
>unimproved "muscle" cars of the 60s; 300 hp is great, but tied to 2
>tons, it just doesn't go that quick. Saturns, on the other hand, use 125
>hp tied to 2400 lbs with some short gearing to move very quickly off the
>line. Anyway....
>
>
>

While your 0-60 time is consistent with most car magazines and reports, I saw
the PBS MotorWeek show clock a 5-speed SL2 at 7.9 seconds.  I'm sure that most
SL2 owners will be VERY lucky to get this speed, but 7.9 seconds is still
astonishingly fast for a small 4-door.  A new Civic EX runs about 8.2 seconds
0-60, if I'm not mistaken.  Most cars in this class are lucky to be in the
9-second range.


Mihir Shah


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101625
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: AWD BMW


in europe you can buy a 525iX, with computer controlled diffs rather
than the horrid viscous coupled ones of the outgoing 325iX.

eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101626
From: kega@celsiustech.se (Kent Gabrin)
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

In article <1993Apr6.060553.22453@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:

...deleted lines...

>>Well Sweden and Australia, and lord knows wherever else used to drive on
>Australians still do drive on the "wrong" side of the road. I believe
>Sweden changed in 1968. The way I heard it was that they swapped
>all the traffic signs around one Sunday....

   As I live in Sweden I remember the day perfectly well. We changed
side 1967-09-03 (or 03-SEP-1967). I don't remeber the exactly time but
it was in the night. (in the 'big' cities like Stockholm & Gothenburg
all trafic was forbidden, exept busses and taxis, during the whole
weekend.) The day was a Sunday and everything was prepared in before.

Before the day we was told to follow the yellow lines on the road and
after it was the white one that matters. The signs with arrows on was
prepared with a 'left mode' label that was torn off that night to
reveal the new right mode arrow.

The year after Iceland also changed.

About cars: Before the H-day (H as in "Hoegertrafik". "hoeger" is
Swedish and stands for 'right') practically all cars already had their
steering wheels on the left side. Even the imported cars from UK had
the wheel on 'the right side'. At last we have cars with the wheels on
the right side. :-)

More contries that uses the left side is:

Japan
Tanzania (I think)
New Zeeland
How about South Africa?

BTW. Some sais that the left side is the right side because Ivanhoe
and other knights meet at the left when they fight in tournaments. :-)

...deleted lines...

Kent Gabrin   CelsiusTech Systems  ! My thinking is not as great as
S-175 88 Jaerfaella       Sweden   ! Oliver Berendinus Bumble /Will Try
KEGA@Celsiustech.se ! Company sold again. Former name was: NobelTech


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101627
From: boyle@bbsls23.bnr (Ian Boyle)
Subject: Re: What is " Volvo " ?

> And all of these cars are driven fairly hard. None of them are at the head of
> a line of cars going 30 MPH....the first two spend a lot of their operating
> life with the speedometer pegged...and the only reason the 84 doesn't is it has
> a 120 MPH speedo...
> What I want to know is....have all you people who hate Volvos been traumatized
> by someone in a 745 Turbo wagon blowing you away on the road, or what?

740 Turbo in UK was good for 124mph. Useful for blowing away VW Beetles, though I
believe the Beetle corners better. 

I can say without any doubt that I have never been blown away by any Volvo, ever.
I've been blocked into a few car parks though by shit-head Volvo owners who 'only thought they'd be a few minutes'. This does not happen with the owners of any other makes of car.

Not sure how long the small shit-box Volvos last - too damn long. The worst car I ever drove was a hired 340. In power, handling and ride it was reminiscent of something
from the 50s, without the character. The 340 only ceased production a couple of years back. I've only been a passenger in the big Volvos, but that was enough. I ought to go
for a test drive because they offer some neat gifts.





Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101628
From: jdmooney@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (John D. Mooney)
Subject: Re: anti-theft devices


In article <99948@rphroy.ph.gmr.com>, rhaar@gmr.com (Bob Haar) writes:
> In article 3056@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com, jdmooney@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (John D. Mooney) writes:
> |>
> |>Someone writes:
> |>> 
> |>> BTW, somebody stole the front grille off my beat-up 1983 Nissan Sentra
> |>> a few weeks ago!  I couldn't believe it.  I'm just driving around
> |>> without it now.
> |>
> |>Years ago, my brother lived in a ROUGH area....  he left his NOVA 
> |>parked on the street in FRONT of his house for a few days.....  
> |>one day he went to move it back into the driveway, it wouldn't start....
> |>
> |>Seems some industrious fool needed a NOVA GAS TANK..... the fool found
> |>one under my brothers car.  
> |>
> 
> The engines in VW Beatles are quite easy to remove without entering the car
> or even opening the engine compartment. How would you like to find that
> your car wouldn't start because the engine was stolen?
> 

I would probobly feel a hell of a lot poorer...   a gas tank is about
50$ in a junkyard.   An engine... more!

Seriously though, my other brother, DARRELL, left his VW on the same
street...  someone stole the radiator out of it....  try finding a VW
radiator in a junkyard  :-)    I DARE YOU !

JD
-- 
********************************************************************************
* John D Mooney               Delco Electronics                 General Motors *
* ------------------ jdmooney@kocrsv01@delcoelect.com -------------------------*
*  Opinions expressed are MINE...             NOT necessarily  DE's or GM's    *

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101629
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: bullet proof luxury sedans

In article <1pnigoINN5in@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> chsu@mtl.mit.edu (Charles H. Hsu) writes:
>I am interested to find out if there is any domestic car manufacturer
>(especially GM and FORD) which produces "bullet-proof" luxury sedans.

I understand Caddy is working on one, double battery, super high perf
engine, more gauges, a bit 'stretched', etc, lots of communication equipment,
the works. Color selection is limited though. 

The problem is that the guy at 1600 Penn. Avenue is about to get it
(Pres. Clinton) (Last time it was a Lincoln, this time a Caddy). 

>I am just wondering if this so-called "bullet-proof" (perhaps reinforced
>windows, special materials for the body/engine/etc.) luxury car - Lincoln
>and Cadillac models - is readily available to the public.  

Not to my knowledge; I know GM does conversion work for things like 
hot climates (i.e. the Chevy Caprices sold to the Middle East) but 
things like that are always done by third parties, NOT the manufacturer.
Maybe you will need to buy a specific package that has beefed-up everything,
perhaps the police cruiser package on the Caprice/Crown Vic and start from
there. 

>Do we have
>to go through any special dealership to obtain these cars?  I would really
>like to hear from anyone who has experience with the "bullet-proof" cars.

"And I wuz drivin' along in my armored Seville STS and this punk pulls out
of nowhere with an RPG (Rocket Propelled Grenade) but the bulletproof
windshield stopped him" :-) Don't think many people on the net have a need
for bulletproof cars. 

Check with local armored service companies/security/bodyguard places. They'd
know best. I think your average luxury car dealer will have a coronary if
you told them "I'll take the blue Caprice, with options FZ01 (Fuzzy Dice),
PR11 (power everything), and AR007 (Armor). 

>Any information regarding the dealers and after-market shops that have
>"bullet-proof" Lincoln's and Cadillac's is greatly appreciated.  You may
>email me at chsu@mtl.mit.edu or post the message in this newsgroup if
>you believe other netters might be interested as well.  BTW, same information
>on Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Lexus, and Infiniti luxury sedans is needed
>as well if you have it.

I believe an article on the conversion process appeared in the car press within
the last few months.

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101630
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

In article <C4wJGq.A40@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>No. At six years, you are nearing the end of the design life of the
>vehicle, when everything should be breaking. At that point, the
>driving habits make more difference than the actual reliability
>of the vehicle, so the data becomes unreliable for drawing conclusions,

Bad driving habits can damage a car in a couple of months, not 6 years.

If that were not the case, everyone would be driving fleet rental re-solds...

And while you are considering things (factors in stat terms), how about
city vs. highway driving ratios, owner vs. dealer service, extreme weather
or environment, adherence (sp?) to maintenance schedules, whether the car
has ever been in an accident, number of different drivers of the same car
in a family, whether the car is garaged, warmed up, ...

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101631
From: tobias@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Tobias)
Subject: Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000

In rec.autos, CPKJP@vm.cc.latech.edu (Kevin Parker) writes:
>   I'd like to get some feedback on a car with most bang for the buck in the
>$13000 to 16,000 price range. I'm looking for a car with enough civility to be
>driven every day, or even on long trips, but when I hit the gas, I want to feel
>some acceleration.  Handling is important also, as are reliability and pretty
>low maintenance costs.  A stylish appearance is nice, but I don't want a car
>that is all show and not much go.  Even though many of the imports are fast, I
>don't really want a turbo, and I never have cared for the song sung by a four
>clyinder.  I'd prefer a v6 or v8 for the engine.  If you have any suggestions,
>Kevin Parker

     There's only one car that really fits your needs. It's spelled:

			  5.0 LITER MUSTANG

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101632
From: finnegan@invader.navo.navy.mil (Kenneth Finnegan)
Subject: Re: 5W30, 10W40, or 20W50

As an additional data point, I have run Castrol 20W50 exclusively
in the following cars: 75 Rabbit, 78 Scirocco, 76 Rabbit, 78 Bus,
70 Beetle, 76 Bus, 86 Jetta GLI.  I've never had an oil-related
problem.

Disclaimer:  It gets mighty hot down here.

Kenneth
finnegan@navo.navy.mil

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101633
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

dunnjj@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (DUNN  JONATHAN JAMES) writes:
>ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) writes:
>>Cup holders (driving is an importantant enough undertaking)

>This is a good idea - so you can carry your (non-alcoholic) drinks without
>spilling or having someone hold on to them.

I agree.  Six hour long stretches behind the wheel really make me
thirsty, especially for something with caffeine.  I consider it a
failing of my car that it has no cup holder nor anywhere to put a cup
holder.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101634
From: jahonen@cc.lut.fi (Jarmo Ahonen)
Subject: Re: What is " Volvo " ?

boyle@bbsls23.bnr (Ian Boyle) writes:


>740 Turbo in UK was good for 124mph. Useful for blowing away VW Beetles, though I
>believe the Beetle corners better. 

>I can say without any doubt that I have never been blown away by any Volvo, ever.
>I've been blocked into a few car parks though by shit-head Volvo owners who 'only thought they'd be a few minutes'. This does not happen with the owners of any other makes of car.

>Not sure how long the small shit-box Volvos last - too damn long. The worst car I ever drove was a hired 340. In power, handling and ride it was reminiscent of something
>from the 50s, without the character. The 340 only ceased production a couple of years back. I've only been a passenger in the big Volvos, but that was enough. I ought to go
>for a test drive because they offer some neat gifts.


Oh, well... I have to admit that the most disgusting feature of
Volvo's is their marketing. It looks like Volvo uses something like
"Do you dare to risk your family in any car?" attitude, which is quite
annoying in the long run.

But now Volvo has produced a new  good car, the Volvo 850. Front drive,
2.4 L 20 valves motor, completely new chassis etc. Even the British magazine
"CAR" liked it (and believe me, that is quite much for a Volvo). And
the American magazine "Road & Track" said that "This is not your uncle
Olof's car", and in a positive sense.

But in any case, I'd still like to own the 960 estate. Strong, tank-like
chassis, 3.0L inline six, rear drive. :-) :-)

BTW, the only car drivers who have blocked me are Land Rover or Jaguar
drivers... :-) :-) :-) :-)

What? You mean what I drive? A cheapo Japanese (a Toyota) of course,
I do not have money for a *car*. (like BMW, Merc, Jaguar, Saab 9000, 
Volvo 850 (or 960), etc)
If I had the money, I would have *bad* problems deciding which one
to buy :-) :-) :-).





























Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101635
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: Re: Photo radar (was Re: rec.autos: Frequently

In article 2211@viewlogic.com, brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:
>
>In article <1993Mar20.050303.8401@cabot.balltown.cma.COM>, welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:
>
>|> Q:  What is Ka band radar?  Where is it used?  Should a radar detector be
>|>     able to handle it? 
>|> 
>|> A:  Ka band has recently been made available by the FCC for use in the US
>|>     in so-called photo-radar installations.  In these installations, a
>|>     low-powered beam is aimed across the road at a 45 degree angle to the
>|>     direction of traffic, and a picture is taken of vehicles which the
>|>     radar unit determines to have been in violation of the speed limit.
>|>     Tickets are mailed to the owner of the vehicle.  Because of the low
>|>     power and the 45 degree angle, many people believe that a radar
>|>     detector cannot give reasonable warning of a Ka band radar unit,
>|>     although some manufacturers of radar detectors have added such
>|>     capability anyway.  The number of locales where photo-radar is in use
>|>     is limited, and some question the legality of such units.  Best advice:
>|>     learn what photo radar units look like, and keep track of where they
>|>     are used (or else, don't speed.)
>
>Photo radar and mailed tickets make no sense at all. Speeding is a moving 
>violation, committed by the operator, not the owner. The owner may be a 
>rental agency, a dealer, a private party, or a government agency. As long
>as the owner has no reason to expect the operator will be driving illegally
>or unsafely, the owner cannot be held responsible for what the operator does.
>The car may even have been driven without the owner's knowledge or consent. 
>I can't believe a mailed ticket, where the driver is not identified, would 
>stand up in court. This is obviously a lazy, cynical, boneheaded, fascist 
>way to extort revenue, and has nothing to do with public safety.
>
>- BK
>


We had those f*****g photo-radar things here in Sweden a while ago.
There was a lot of fuzz about them, and a lot of sabotage too (a spray-can
with touch-up paint can do a lot of good...).

Eventually they had to drop the idea as there were a lot of court-cases
where the owner of the car could prove he didn't drive it at the time
of speeding.

I especially recall a case where it eventually proved to be a car-thief that
had stolen a car and made false plates. He, ofcourse, chose a license number
of a identical car, so the photo seemed correct...

In conclosion: Photo-radar sucks, every way you look at it!

/ Markus 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101636
From: eric@sad.hp.com (Eric Lucas)
Subject: Clifford Delta car alarm?


  Just found a great deal on a Clifford Delta car alarm, $450 installed.  
Comes with glass break sensor, motion detector, and shock detector.  Does 
anyone have one of these alarms?  Are they any good?  From the looks of it, its
about the best on the market for the price.  It's also on sale, so that's 
another reason to get it.  I think I'll be saving almost $200.  Any opinions?

Eric Lucas


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101637
From: Sang-Yoon Oh <so0z+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Jeep Grand vs. Toyota 4-Runner

>In article <1pq29p$29p@seven-up.East.Sun.COM>
jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM >writes:
>>
>>Any reason you are limited to the two mentioned? They aren't really at
>>the same point along the SUV spectrum - not to mention price range.
>>How about the Explorer, Trooper, Blazer, Montero, and if the budget
>>allows, the Land Cruiser? 
> 
>Any advice on HOW to buy a Land Cruiser? My local Toyota dealer says they
>get two a year, and if I want one I can just get on the waiting list.
>Forget about a test drive or even kicking the tires.
>And if they are that rare, I doubt there is much of a parts inventory on
hand.

Land Crusier is just simply nice with shit-load of power and room.
Fully stocked, it cost ~$40,000.  I think it is worth the money.
Only problem is when you get into accident(it doesn't usually break down
unless you forget to get a oil change for 30000 miles or something
stupid like this), body parts and other parts are very hard to locate. 
Parts are over priced also.  One of my friend had accident in past snow
storm and he is still waiting for front bumper and passenger side fender.

Well, if you test drive Land Cruiser, all other SUV look like toys.
One of magazine writer called it "Land Bruiser".  

If you have $40,000 to spare for SUV, get Land Cruiser and forget Lange Rover.

--Sang


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101638
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR

In article <1993Apr6.035020.16730@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>miles, a rare screw up by Honda.
>Both the GTZ and GSR are flawed cars. The performance enthusiasts would take
>the GTZ and the CR purchase would be the GSR.
>


The CR purchase would be the Ford Probe GT.

john


-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101639
From: tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

CHINTS@ISCS.NUS.SG writes:
> Here are "another" ten reasons why we should all love CR
> 10. Car salesmen love their new car buying service
> [...]
> 7. Car Salesmen/rec.auto readers turned into "expert" statistics critics
> [...]
> 5. Lucky owners of CR unreliable cars who say "Mine never had a problem"
> 4. Those same owners joining the sceptics a few months later
> 3. And later subscribing to CR and taking it soooo seriously
> 2. And later on buying a CR "idealized family sedan"

And my number 1:

1. The spectacle of the religious fervour of the CR "true believers".

-- 
[ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
[       "stick your index fingers into both corners of your mouth.  now pull ]
[          up.  that's how the corrado makes you feel."  -- car, january '93 ]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101640
From: charlesw@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Charles Wilson)
Subject: Re: Experience/opinions sought, diesel engines

In article <91321@hydra.gatech.EDU> jkg@jmp.com writes:
>Apologies if this is a FAQ (is there a FAQ posting for this group? I
>am an infrequent reader of rec.autos, so I can't remember).
>
>I am in the market for a used Chevy Suburban, and have observed that
>prices for models with diesel engines run about $1000-2000 less than
>comparable models with a gas engine.
>
>There has to be a reason for this.
>
Yes, there is:  consumer confusion.  In the early 80's with the
fuel crisis, etc., everyone wanted better fuel mileage.  Diesel fuel
was the cheapest fuel available and usually provides better mileage
than comparable gasoline engines.  So, GM decided to conver their
350 gas engine into a diesel engine (I think was a 5.7 liter).  Big
mistake.  The engine was not redesigned, but converted.  The engine
could not handle the higher compression, etc.  Lots of problems with
these cars.  This thew up a big red flag to the casual observer --
DON"T BUY A DIESEL.  THEY ARE BAD.  This was a gross generalization.

Ask yourself this question -- if your livelihood depended on driving,
LOTS of it, would you use a dependable or undependable (but cheaper
in the short run) vehicle?  What do Greyhound busses have in them?
Trailer Trucks?  Even Train Locomotives?  Are these gasoline engines?
No, they are diesel.  Tractor trailer truck manufacturers provide a
500,000 mile warrantee with they vehicles.

I own an `82 Diesel Suburban.  The 6.2L diesel is a GREAT engine.
Just keeps going.  It was more expensive (when new) than the gasoline
engine vehicle was.  The only problem with diesel engines is that 
when they need to be rebuilt, they are expensive.  In a gas 350
engine, you will pay about $1000 for a rebuild.  Diesel 6.2L is about
$2000.  But then again, the diesel engine lasts about twice as long
and gets about 50% better mileage.  A carburator for a gasoline engine
costs about $100 to rebuild (or less).  A rebuild of the fuel injection
pump on a diesel will cost about $500 (or more).  But then again,
you never need a tune-up.

If you're looking at a rebuilt 6.2L, I'd say you got a great deal.
Check to see if the fuel injection pump was rebuilt also.

Good luck.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101641
From: jwg@sedv1.acd.com ( Jim Grey)
Subject: Re: Necessity of fuel injector cleaning by dealership

In article <1993Apr2.174850.6289@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> prm@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (paul.r.mount) writes:
>
>In your experience, how true is it that a fuel injector cleaning
>will do much more good than just using detergent gas.   While I
>agree that a clogged fuel injector would darken my day, how clogged
>do they get, and is $59 a good price (or can I do it myself by buying
>a can of ____ (what?) and doing ___ what?


A "fuel injector cleaning" at the dealer is probably little more than
them opening your gas tank, dumping in a bottle of fuel injector cleaner,
and sending you on your merry way $59 poorer.  Go to KMart and buy the
cleaner yourself for $1.29.
 
Just because you dealer sez you need it, don't mean it's necessarily so.
Be suspicious.
 
jim grey
jwg@acd4.acd.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101642
From: tommy@boole.att.com (Tommy Reingold)
Subject: RFD: rec.autos.saab

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION

This is a request for discussion on the creation of a newsgroup
concerning Saab cars.  It will allow participaants to exchange
information on purchasing, maintaining, repairing, and outfitting
Saabs.

Group Name:

	rec.autos.saab

Status:

	Unmoderated

Rationale:

	There may be enough people with Saab cars or interested in
	buying a Saab or interested in knowing more about Saabs for any
	reason to justify such a new newsgroup.  The recent growth of
	the net could improve the turnaround time between posing a
	question and receiving answers from the community.

Discussion:

	Comments on this proposed new newsgroup should be posted to the
	USENET Newsgroup "news.groups".  If the reader is not able to
	do so, comments may be e-mailed to the proposer, at the address
	below.

Voting:

	If no problems arise, voting will start 1 month from the
	posting date of this RFD.

Proposer:

Tommy Reingold          tommy@boole.att.com
-- 
Tommy Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101643
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: AudiWatch Update (Tm) #11

In article <1993Apr2.194838.13476@news.cs.brandeis.edu> andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:
>In article <1993Apr2.181037.11188@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
>>powell@interlan.interlan.com (Glen D. Powell) writes:

>>The kind of corporate raiding apparently undertaken by VW is shameful.
>
>Agreed.  However, the particular execs had been working with Iggy for
>many years and had left GM Europe to go to Detroit.  With their raison
>-andy

I was out of date.  VW is stealing execs directly from Opel,
independent of Lopez.  Shameful.

-andy




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101644
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: Quick question

In article <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
> How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside
>on an '87 Honda Prelude?  The speaker went scratchy, and I want
>to access its pins.
>

There is something going on here.  It seems that once a month, the VW
group must have get a specific detailed question about Hondas.  I
would like to ask that next month we get one about Hyundai instead of
Honda.  Thank you.

-andy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101645
From: mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Wayne Blunier)
Subject: Re: male/female mystery [ Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time ]

bets@chester.ksu.ksu.edu (Beth Schwindt) writes:

>>This has me thinking.  Is there a biological reason why women can't put
>>their keys in their pants pockets like men do?  I have two pockets on the
>>back of each of my pants.  I put my keys in one and wallent in another.
>>Many of the pockets even have a botton on them so I can close them securely.
>>Everything is that much simpler for me.  Why can't women do the same?
>>Is is biological (ie, not enough room for a bigger bottom plus keys and
>>a wallet) or is it the way they are raised by the parents? 

>I've found that it has to do with the way women's clothes are made.
>If you put keys in the front pocket of women's jeans or slacks, you
>get a bulge that also tends to make it impossible to sit down because
>they stick you constantly.  ditto in the back pocket.

>Also, try *looking* at the back pockets of women's jeans and compare
>them to the back pockets on men's jeans.  They are usually (if you buy
>jeans that you expect to last for any length of time) about half the
>size.  There flat out isn't *room* for a wallet or a bunch of keys.

>Besides which, where would men put all their crap if their wives
>didn't carry purses? :-)

The same place single men do, wallet in back pocket, comb in other
back pocket, keys in front pocket, knive in other from pocket, pen
in shirt pocket, or front pants pocket.  Or do married men start
carrying around a bunch of stuff to keep there women happy?

>Beth
Mark B.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101646
From: dbak@elm.lle.rochester.edu (Douglas Baker)
Subject: Performance of new Mustangs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


	Does anyone know the performance ratings for a 1992 or 1993
5.0 L HO Mustang LX like the 0-60 time 1/4 mile and top end ???
Also can you tell me which magazine where these #'s come from so I
can look them up if possable ????  If you could the year and month and
eveen page # if you have it.

						Thanks,
						Doug

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101647
From: <RSM2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: US-Made M-B SUV

Mercedes-Benz announced yesterday its plans to begin building sport-utility
vehicles in the US by 1997.  They are targeted at the Jeep Grand Cherokee
et al. and will reportedly sell for less than $30,000.

Did anyone see a picture?   Is it the G-wagon (Gelaendewagen) currently
available in Europe (and in the US by grey-market) or is it an entirely new
vehicle?  Any details would be appreciated.

Dick Meyer
Applied Research Laboratory, Penn State

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101648
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: US-Made M-B SUV

In article <93096.101507RSM2@psuvm.psu.edu> <RSM2@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Mercedes-Benz announced yesterday its plans to begin building sport-utility
>vehicles in the US by 1997.  They are targeted at the Jeep Grand Cherokee
>et al. and will reportedly sell for less than $30,000.
>
>Did anyone see a picture?   Is it the G-wagon (Gelaendewagen) currently
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There is a picture in the May 1993 edition of European Car (although,
it may not be on the shelf yet).

Some things that the article says:

	- prototype has front wheel drive (first front drive
	  for Mercedes since the beginning of WWII)

	- wheelbase 3.15m
	- 7 seater
	- they claim that the price will be about the same as a
	  Renault Espace or Chrysler Voyager (DM 50,000)

Looking at the picture (slightly disguised) it looks like the Ford
Aerostar, to me.

>available in Europe (and in the US by grey-market) or is it an entirely new
>vehicle?  Any details would be appreciated.
>
>Dick Meyer
>Applied Research Laboratory, Penn State

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101650
From: ari@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ari Ollikainen)
Subject: Re: 5W30, 10W40, or 20W50

In article <jgladu-060493121851@128.249.27.63> jgladu@bcm.tmc.edu (grungy/John F. Gladu) writes:
>In article <1993Apr6.130550.13550@cs.tulane.edu>,
>finnegan@invader.navo.navy.mil (Kenneth Finnegan) wrote:
>> 
>> As an additional data point, I have run Castrol 20W50 exclusively
>> in the following cars: 75 Rabbit, 78 Scirocco, 76 Rabbit, 78 Bus,
>> 70 Beetle, 76 Bus, 86 Jetta GLI.  I've never had an oil-related
>> problem.
>
>Add mine to that list:  '71,'72 SuperBeetles; '68,'69 Bugs; '61 dddPanel;
>(cringe) '87 Toyota Tercel (It's my WIFE's car, honest:-).  I'm still
>chicken about running it in the '90 Vanagon - that's got Castrol 10W40 in
>it.

I don't understand this last statement about the '90Vanagon...Our '90Vanagon
Owner's Manual RECOMMENDS 20W50 !!

Ari Ollikainen(former VW fanatic: 62Bug, 62Bug+Porschepower, 64.5Porsche356SC,
68BugAuto-Stick, 69Camper, 71Camper, 73Westfalia, 73VWPorsche914/2.0,
81Westfalia, 85Vanagon, 85Westfalia...and now only 90VanagonCarat)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101651
From: U09579@uicvm.uic.edu
Subject: 1989 Honda CRX for sale

My friend, David Gordon wants to sell his 1989 Honda. Some of the details of th
e car are as follows:

             Five speed
             A/c, AM/FM/Cassette stereo
             ps/pb
             Rear window defroster
             EXCELLENT CONDITION

Asking 6400.00 OBO.

Please call him at (708) 257-0518.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101652
From: sekell@bb1t.monsanto.com
Subject: Re: Necessity of fuel injector cleaning by dealership

In article <1993Apr6.131018.12873@acd4.acd.com>, jwg@sedv1.acd.com ( Jim Grey) writes:
> In article <1993Apr2.174850.6289@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> prm@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (paul.r.mount) writes:
>>
>>In your experience, how true is it that a fuel injector cleaning
>>will do much more good than just using detergent gas.   While I
> 
> A "fuel injector cleaning" at the dealer is probably little more than
> them opening your gas tank, dumping in a bottle of fuel injector cleaner,
> and sending you on your merry way $59 poorer.  Go to KMart and buy the
> cleaner yourself for $1.29.

This should not be the case if they are at all reputable. Fuel injector 
cleaning is done properly with a can of injector cleaner solvent which is
hooked up to the fuel system under high pressure. The car is actually run on
the solvent during the cleaning process. The equipment to properly do this is
pricey, and generally not something the average home mechanic has. The solvent
itself is not very expensive ($5-$8) and you could probably make up a hose to
fit your system and do it yourself, but I didn't tell you that... :-)

Not many in-tank cleaners are worth wasting your money on. There has been a 
discussion of these products on here from time to time, and Chevron Techron
(not Pro-Gard with Techron) is generally regarded as the best. It is, however,
a bit more than $1.29 a bottle. IMHO, it will not substitute for proper
injector cleaning if they are really crudded up. You'll have to decide if the
$59 price is a better deal than spending your time and/or buying equipment to
do it.
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Scott Keller	+1 314 537 6317	    The Agricultural Group of Monsanto Company 
  sekell@bb1t.monsanto.com  	KA0WCH		packet: ka0wch@k0pfx.mo.usa.na

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101653
From: nill.toulme@datadim.uu.holonet.net (Nill Toulme)
Subject: used Taurus SHO purchase

Quoting Jeffrey J. Nucciarone's (nucci@microwave.gsfc.nasa.gov) article 
<C4G8Hv.Cs4@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov> of 04-06-93, in pertinent part:

 JJ>   I am considering buying a used '90 Taurus SHO.  The car in 
 JJ> question has 37k miles. I took it for a test drive the other day
 JJ> and a few questions came up.
 JJ> 
 JJ> . . .
 JJ>   Second, is there anything I should specifically look for in an 
 JJ> SHO of this vintage? Anything I should specifically ask abt?  
 JJ> (Brakes, cluthch, etc.)  I noticed on the drive the clutch engagemen
 JJ> point seemed a little high; since all my other cars are auto-tragics
 JJ> I'm not sure abt this point. I had my foot firmly planted on the
 JJ> brake when I started it up. There was a bit of a pop in the pedal
 JJ> soon after the engine started. This also occured on a few T-bird SC'
 JJ> I test drove. Was this the ABS self test?
 
Brake rotors and the clutch are the main things.  There has been a clutch 
replacement program; you might check to see if the car is still eligible, 
as it is a change well worth making.  You can also swap the cruddy cable 
shifter for the newer rod shifter, also a change worth making, but that'll 
cost you some $$.

My brakes usually do one wibble-wobble on startup, so that is probably 
normal.  Didn't know they had a self-test, that's interesting.

What kind of tires does the car have on it?

---
 * WinQwk 2.0b#131 * For a good time dial 7000 on your SHO. *
                                                                                           

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101654
From: mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

>My '66 Ford has vent windows operated by a crank, just like a window 
>(only it opened out, like a normal vent window). My '70 F100, my
>dad's '84 Bronco, and pretty much every truck I've seen that's 
>worth riding in has vent windows.
>
>Does that mean that I'm not a young feller anymore? :-)
>
>				James
>
>James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 

I don't understand the fascination with vent windows. They create a tremendous 
turbulence and noise that makes even a simple connversation impossible at 
speeds above 40mph. The current flow-throuh ventilation, if designed right, 
are far more superior.

Bijan

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101655
From: mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

Not exactly dumb, but who remebers the tachometer on the 69 or 70 Firebird 
bulging out of the _hood_ right in front of the driver. Neat place but I love 
to know what the elemnts did to its internals after a few years. Also, does 
the speedomete pointer on many US cars have to be 3 feet long?. 

Bijan

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101656
From: hacker@cco.caltech.edu (Jonathan Bruce Hacker)
Subject: Re: Was "Re: Safety": From how far can you see a car ?

ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:


>>.... These
>>lit up cars make non-illuminated things LESS visible (like pedistrians and
>>bikes). Hopefully we're not going to mandate DRL's for people and bikes 
>>too.

Well, DRL's are already mandatory for motorcycles...




























































































-- 
Jon Hacker                         |  Get the OS/2 2.1 March Beta CD-ROM 
Caltech, Pasadena CA               |  for $15 
hacker@tumbler-ridge.caltech.edu   |  Call 1-800-3-IBM-OS2

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101657
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

In article <1993Apr6.185328.24947@news.cs.brandeis.edu> andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:
>In article <1993Apr6.180456.17573@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr06.133319.7008@metrics.com> tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>>>CHINTS@ISCS.NUS.SG writes:
>>>> Here are "another" ten reasons why we should all love CR
>>
>>Or the spectacle of "Macho Real Men" who would never bother to read the
>>magazine but are more than apt to criticize it.
>>
>
>But that's the point.  We _do_ read it, or at least we did.  Then we
>found that their recommendations were useless and uninformed.  Then we
>write lists.  The CR flame war is so easy to start because they are so
>wrong and claim to be so right and so thorough.
>
>-andy
>
>

Ok if you are so right, name a few good examples that were brought up.


john
-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101658
From: behanna@phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: CAR INSURANCE !!! HELP

In article <C4x6yq.5L4@news.claremont.edu> ochaine@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ollie 'North' Chaine) writes:
>
>HELP! my car insurance has been cancelled for the second time in a row!
>I still haven't gotten in touch with my agent from AAA because "she's
>out for the week" but my mom said that I got a call saying that my insurance
>was going to be cancelled because of an accident ( not even a fender-bender) 
>that was never declared or anything. Besides the fact that i have no idea how they found out about this, the only
>other thing that could bug them is that I have 1 ticket but I told them
>about it and they said that it wasn't a problem.
>If I go to another insurance, I know I will end up paying more (b/c I already
>shopped around for this one) and I can't afford to pay for the insurance
>especially since I still haven't gotten the $3000 the two insuance companies
>are supposed to refund me. I just got a new Saturn SL2 and can't afford the
>car payments and the insurance, but I bought the car having gotten a QUOTE
>from State Farm which they later went back on. 
>PLEASE HELP ME! what legal rights do I have? Can I make State Farm who originally 
>gave me the quote give me that rate (they made a mistake after I signed all
>the papers, I did not give any false evidence)? How can I get my money back
>for the car if I can't pay for the insurance? I'm deperate!!!
>						Ollie

	I just went through this mess in New Jersey (I'm still waiting for a
refund as well), namely, that the original company made a mistake and left me
in the lurch.  My recourse was through NJ's insurance dept. Office of Consumer
Protection.  You should have a similar office in your state.  Make use of it.

Good luck,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - pending delivery
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101659
From: finnegan@invader.navo.navy.mil (Kenneth Finnegan)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

In article <1993Apr6.180456.17573@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr06.133319.7008@metrics.com> tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) writes:
|> >CHINTS@ISCS.NUS.SG writes:
|> >> Here are "another" ten reasons why we should all love CR
|> >> 10. Car salesmen love their new car buying service
|> >> 2. And later on buying a CR "idealized family sedan"
|> >
|> >And my number 1:
|> >
|> >1. The spectacle of the religious fervour of the CR "true believers".
|> 
|> Or the spectacle of "Macho Real Men" who would never bother to read the
|> magazine but are more than apt to criticize it.

Hey, I'm a "Macho Real Man" and I DO read it.  So I can criticize
it all I want, especially since I pay for the publication. (They
accept no outside advertising, don't you know....)

|> John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
|> "To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
|> something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
|> wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\

Relying on Consumer Reports to pick your automobiles is like
letting Field & Stream select your living room furniture.

Kenneth
finnegan@navo.navy.mil

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101660
From: andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner)
Subject: Re: LH car order delay

[]

	"I read an article in the 3/25 Chicago Tribune stating that
	Chrysler is having problems addressing the demand for the 3.5L
	engine for it's LH cars.  Can anyone post how long they are
	waiting for an ordered car or how long they have been told
	they'll have to wait??"

Ordered mine December 30, got it nine weeks later.  But the dealer said
that *new* orders were being held up -- he didn't expect to see any
more 3.5L-engine LHs for awhile.

  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101661
From: rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ronald.j.deblock..jr)
Subject: Re: male/female mystery [ Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time ]

In article <1pq8tkINNbek@chester.ksu.ksu.edu> bets@chester.ksu.ksu.edu (Beth Schwindt) writes:
>
>Besides which, where would men put all their crap if their wives
>didn't carry purses? :-)
>
>
>Beth
>

My wife rarely carries a purse, so all of her crap ends up in my pockets!


-- 
Ron DeBlock  rdb1@homxb.att.com  (that's a number 1 in rdb1, not letter l)
AT&T Bell Labs   Somerset, NJ  USA

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101662
From: michal+@cs.cmu.edu (Michal Prussak)
Subject: "Illegal" tint windows

I know it's a long shot, but maybe someone went through this and will have
some comments to share.

The story is this: I bought a car out of state, and I'm trying to get
the safety inspection in Pennsylvania. The problem is that the car has 
aftermarket tint on all windows except the windshield. The tint is rather
weak, and you can clearly see the inside of the car through the tint.

The inspection garage said that they won't pass it unless I get a
waiver from the state police. So I went to the state police - the
officer told me that aftermarket tint is illegal, and I can get a
waiver only for a pre-84 car or for a medical reason. I asked him to
show me the section of the vehicle code that says it's illegal.  He
showed it to me and the paraghaph said that you can't have tint, if
you can't see the inside of the car because of the tint. When I told
him that you can in fact see the inside very well, he shut the book
and said "It's just illegal, and in fact we can have someone give you
a ticket for it right now." Well, won't argue with that...

Since the vehicle code says it's OK as long as you can see through the
tint, I'd like to keep it (I'll re-read the vehicle code in the
library).  I'd also like to get some sort of paper from the police
that says it's OK, so I can get the inspection, and so that I won't
get in trouble for the tint later on. I also wouldn't mind registering
a complaint against that officer - he really pissed me off.

So does anyone have any experience getting that sort of a paper from
the police, especially in Pennsylvania? Does anyone have any experience
registering a complaint against an officer? I called the station 
later on today, but they basically said there is no place where I
could register a complaint against an officer... And if I do decide
to keep the tint and get a ticket anyway, how much of a chance do
I stand to succesfully appeal the ticket in court?

Any comments about it will be welcome!

Michal


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101663
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

In article <1993Apr6.194738.20021@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:

[blah blah blah]

>Ok if you are so right, name a few good examples that were brought up.


let's create a new group:  rec.autos.CR-is-right-no-its-not-yes-it-is-oh-yeah-
my-father-can-lick-your-father-.......


:-)


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101664
From: jwl@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (james.w.lee..iii)
Subject: Re: new saturn argument

In article <C50p1M.21o@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
> 
> ok, how about this to argue about.  why does the sl2 have a much lower base
> price than the sc2???  it's over 1k cheaper(i forget the exact amount).
> doesn't it cost more to have the extra doors/windows/locks/motors etc. that 
> are in the 4 door????  perhaps it is just a marketing deal....people want the
> 2door, so they will pay the extra 1.2k???


The SC1/SC2 has a shorter wheel base than the SL/SL1/SL2/SW1/SW2, just a 
thought. Ithink your right though......

-- 
James Lee  @ A.T.& T. Bell Labs
   Murray Hill, N.J. 07974
  Room 2A-336    201-582-4420
        att!conceps!jwl

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101665
From: dennisk@cs.uoregon.edu (Dennis Kennedy)
Subject: '72 Chevelle SS forsale

I don't want to sell this car, but I need money for college.
1972 Chevelle Super Sport
Rebuilt 402, four speed, 12 Bolt positrac
Numbers match
110,000 original miles
no rust
Looks and runs excellent
$5995 or best offer.
Call Dennis at (503)343-3759
or email dennisk@cs.uoregon.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101666
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

In article <1993Apr6.195710.24227@cs.tulane.edu> finnegan@navo.navy.mil writes:
>In article <1993Apr6.180456.17573@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>|> In article <1993Apr06.133319.7008@metrics.com> tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>|> >CHINTS@ISCS.NUS.SG writes:
>|> >> Here are "another" ten reasons why we should all love CR
>|> >> 10. Car salesmen love their new car buying service
>|> >> 2. And later on buying a CR "idealized family sedan"
>|> >
>|> >And my number 1:
>|> >
>|> >1. The spectacle of the religious fervour of the CR "true believers".
>|> 
>|> Or the spectacle of "Macho Real Men" who would never bother to read the
>|> magazine but are more than apt to criticize it.
>
>Hey, I'm a "Macho Real Man" and I DO read it.  So I can criticize
>it all I want, especially since I pay for the publication. (They
>accept no outside advertising, don't you know....)
>
>|> John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
>|> "To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
>|> something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
>|> wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\
>
>Relying on Consumer Reports to pick your automobiles is like
>letting Field & Stream select your living room furniture.
>
>Kenneth
>finnegan@navo.navy.mil

No one should EVER rely on just a magazine to determine what car they
buy, I don't care what magazine. Btw, I subscribe to three other 
auto rags, I just think CU is getting a bum rap by these macho men
from hell who think real men should read . . . .

Statements like what you said above have no meaning. People keep on
saying "CU is only good for dishwashing detergent" or as you
said:"Relying on Consumer Reports . . . . is like. . ."  and that is
all they say. 

If there were as critical of themsevles as they are of CU maybe there
would be some real content.

john



-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101667
From: k8gj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: Impreza, Altima, or What??

A friend of mine is cnsidering buying a new car, and is considering the
Subaru Impreza or the Nissan Altima right now.  Which of these two cars
would you recommend.  We definately want an airbag and ABS, and room for
tall people and long legs.

If you have other suggestions for cars under $13K after dealing I'd be
interested
in you opinions as well.

PLEASE send replies to sem1@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu, no tthis address.

THANKS!
Scott


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101668
From: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com (Antonio L. Balsamo (Save the wails))
Subject: Re: Advise needed in buying Automobile


From: thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang)
Subject: Advise needed in buying Automobile

   >I am in search of a dependable automobile to purchase.  Below
   >are its requirements:
   >	5. V6 or above

       Most of the cars you mentioned are below (smaller than) V6 engine.

   Tony
--

                  +--------------------------------------+
                  |   Name: Antonio L. Balsamo           |
                  |Company: Digital Equipment Corp.      |
                  |         Shrewsbury, Mass.            |
                  | Work #: (508) 841-2039               |
                  | E-mail: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com  |
                  +--------------------------------------+

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101669
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR

>
>Quad 4 reliable, yeah, what's your definition of reliable- if that's reliable,
>then its safe to say that integra engines in general are near perfect
> (not to mention, a hell of alot smoother and quieter - balance shafts.The Acura has the engine
>   wins the reliablity contest hands down. You can rev that car all day, everyday,
>and you'll never blow a hose, or crack the block, or anything else. (I speak
>from expierence!)
>I'm not saying the Quad 4 is a bad engine, but don't highlight reliability when you
>comparing it to a Acura Engine.  AND while the Integra costs alot more, it is a

a couple of things:  blowing a hose doesn't speak of engine reliability, and 
while it is true that quad4's have a problem with head gasket leaks, that was
a design flaw in the gasket and has been corrected.  also i know pontiac is
replacing head gaskets that leak for free for 6year/60k miles.  other than
that i have found my quad4 to be completely solid and the direct ignition 
system means no wires/rotor/rotor-cap to ever deal with.  also hydrolic lifters
mean no valve adjustments ever.  i'm not badmouthing the integra engine, i just
think you are going overboard on slamming the quad4.  you are quite correct
that the integra engine is quieter, although i would not say smoother, my
quad4 loves to rev, especially at the high-end.  do you have any evidence
of blocks cracking on quad4s?  i have not heard of this.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101670
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000

In article <33759@oasys.dt.navy.mil> tobias@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Tobias) writes:
>In rec.autos, CPKJP@vm.cc.latech.edu (Kevin Parker) writes:
>>   I'd like to get some feedback on a car with most bang for the buck in the
>>$13000 to 16,000 price range. I'm looking for a car with enough civility to be
>>driven every day, or even on long trips, but when I hit the gas, I want to feel
>>some acceleration.  Handling is important also, as are reliability and pretty
>>low maintenance costs.  A stylish appearance is nice, but I don't want a car
>>that is all show and not much go.  Even though many of the imports are fast, I
>>don't really want a turbo, and I never have cared for the song sung by a four
>>clyinder.  I'd prefer a v6 or v8 for the engine.  If you have any suggestions,
>>Kevin Parker
>
>     There's only one car that really fits your needs. It's spelled:
>
>			  5.0 LITER MUSTANG


not!  sorry, he said cvility, long trips, reliability, and low maintenance cost!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101671
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: Necessity of fuel injector cleaning by dealership

In article <1993Apr6.131018.12873@acd4.acd.com> jwg@sedv1.acd.com ( Jim Grey) writes:
>In article <1993Apr2.174850.6289@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> prm@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (paul.r.mount) writes:
>>
>>In your experience, how true is it that a fuel injector cleaning
>>will do much more good than just using detergent gas.   While I
>>agree that a clogged fuel injector would darken my day, how clogged
>>do they get, and is $59 a good price (or can I do it myself by buying
>>a can of ____ (what?) and doing ___ what?
>
>
>A "fuel injector cleaning" at the dealer is probably little more than
>them opening your gas tank, dumping in a bottle of fuel injector cleaner,
>and sending you on your merry way $59 poorer.  Go to KMart and buy the
>cleaner yourself for $1.29.

Personally, i wouldn't use the $1.29 product from KMart. I knew about
this previously, but this past weekend on PBS's MotorWeek Pat Goss 
(their resident tech type) discussed these products, and recommends
not using them (i.e, the non-isopropyl alcohlo based injector cleaners).

Supposedly only the isopropyl based cleaners actually remove moisture
from your fuel tank as they clean your injectors.  And although the 
others (ethyl based) do clean injectors they also cause rubber 
components in the fuel system to deteriorate, and they don't mix well
with water to help remove it from the fuel system.

I use a product recommended by VW called 44K (by BG Products, Inc.).
It cost more about $14.00, but it is supposed to do the job without
the potential harmful side effects, and its results are supposed to 
last from 2k to 4k miles. I have also used Chevron's Techtrolene (sp?).

I can't say that i have noticed any difference using either, since i 
only use these product as a preventative maintenance item.

> 
>Just because you dealer sez you need it, don't mean it's necessarily so.
>Be suspicious.
> 
>jim grey
>jwg@acd4.acd.com

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101672
From: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Re: $ 80 SVX OIL CHANGE

In article <C518F0.9I7@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>, swdwan@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Donald Wan) writes:
|>  My friend brought a subaru SVX recently.  I had drove it for couples times and I
|> think its a great car, esp on snow.  However when she took it to a local Subaru
|> dealer for a oil change, the bill came out to be about 80 dollars.  The dealer
|> told us it is because to change the oil filter on a SVX it is necessary to
|> disassemble a metal cover under the engine and that took an hour of labour.
|> At first, we think we are being ripped off so she phone to a dealer in Toronto
|> but found out the they are charging roughly the same price.  So is there any
|> SVX owner out there that has the same problem ?  And if the oil change story is
|> true, then the engineer of Subaru looks pretty stubid to me. By the way, the car
|> looks great.
|> 

Labour prices for car service are very expensive in Toronto compared to other
parts of Ontario.  For example, there are places in Ottawa that still charge
"only" $40/hour.  I've seen a couple of places charging $60/hour.  The cheapest
I've heard in Toronto is $70/hour.

|> SWD Wan.
|> 

-- 
Doug Zolmer           Internet: dwjz@bnr.ca         Disclaimer: My opinions only
Bell-Northern Research Ltd.  Ottawa, Ontario, Canada         | Conform:- Moooo!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101673
From: mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Wayne Blunier)
Subject: Re: 5W30, 10W40, or 20W50

zowie@daedalus.stanford.edu (Craig "Powderkeg" DeForest) writes:

>If you're planning on making long drives, the 20W50 is probably fine
>(esp. in the summer) in your 10W40 car.  But if you're making short drives,
>stick to the 10W40.

Several years ago GM was having trouble with the rings sticking on the
5.7 diesel.  They traced a cause to the use of 10W-40 oil.  They would
not honor warranty work if 10W-40 was used (if my memory serves me).
5-30, 10-30 or 20 50 was OK'd though.

Mark B.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101674
From: celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste)
Subject: Re: male/female mystery [ Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time ]

In article <1pima2INN180@gap.caltech.edu>, wen-king@cs.caltech.edu
(Wen-King Su) wrote:
> 
> In article <1993Apr1.191826.28921@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:
> 
> <apparently you're not a woman - my husband hates the auto door locks
> >features, but forgets that besides families with children, a woman
> <feels safer in a car that locks easily (in addition to watching around
> >& checking out if anyone's near me when I get to my car - never park
> <in a secluded spot, etc - have my keys ready to open the door so I'm
> >not fumbling in my purse looking for them ....
> 
> This has me thinking.  Is there a biological reason why women can't put
> their keys in their pants pockets like men do?  I have two pockets on the
> back of each of my pants.  I put my keys in one and wallent in another.
> Many of the pockets even have a botton on them so I can close them securely.
> Everything is that much simpler for me.  Why can't women do the same?
> Is is biological (ie, not enough room for a bigger bottom plus keys and
> a wallet) or is it the way they are raised by the parents? 

Women's pants rarely have pockets and most, when they do, are too
shallow to use!

I is very important for a woman to have her keys in her hand when
she goes from building to a car. It is protect herself from
would be assilants by broadcasting that this is someone who
as a definite place of safty (ie a locked car!).

Puting keys and walet looks ugly! It breaks the lines and makes
you rear look wide as a cows!

 Also, to have the habits that
work for any clothing situation, the pruse functions no mater
what you are wearing! (even nude or a bikni)

A women's suit coat is lucky to have 2 pockets (2 on the outside,
none on the inside). I have men's coats that have as much as 6
pockets! This is definitally not fair!!!

As one that wears both men's and women's clothes, I can tell you,
women's clothes have few if any funtional pockets!

When dressed as a man, I put my wallet on my inside coat pocket and
my keys in a coat outside pocket. It is much more covenent
than the pants pockets and looks better.

Having a car that unlocks quickly and locks back fast is
paramout to a woman's safty. Men don't see this as a problem.
A woman is aware of this every time she goes out! (i.e.
Image some red necks yelling at you "We are going to FUCK YOU!"
and the out weight you by 20 lbs and have 3 inches in hight
on you!)

If you want to find out why a women does something, LIVE AS ONE!

Celeste

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101675
From: kurt@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Kurt Henriksen)
Subject: BRAKE ROTORS...CROSS DRILLING...312 702 8323



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101676
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: Saturn's Pricing Policy

In article <1993Apr5.230808.581@cs.brown.edu> cs012055@cs.brown.edu (Hok-Chung Tsang) writes:
>Moreover, if Saturn really does reduce the dealer profit margin by $1000, 
>then their cars will be even better deals.  Say, if the price of a Saturn was
>already $1000 below market average for the class of cars, then after they
>reduce the dealer profit, it would be $2000 below market average.  It will:

>1) Attract even more people to buy Saturns because it would SAVE THEM MONEY.

>2) Force the competitors to lower their prices to survive.

but what is Saturn's motivation here?  they're already selling every
car they make, with multiple shifts in the plant.  given this, what
possible motivation could they have to lower prices?

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101677
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Subject: Re: new saturn argument

In article <C50p1M.21o@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>
>ok, how about this to argue about.  why does the sl2 have a much lower base
>price than the sc2???  it's over 1k cheaper(i forget the exact amount).
>doesn't it cost more to have the extra doors/windows/locks/motors etc. that 
>are in the 4 door????  perhaps it is just a marketing deal....people want the
>2door, so they will pay the extra 1.2k???

Ok, here's what I understand:

The SL/SL1/SL2/SW1/SW2 was meant to compete with the following cars:

Honda Civic
Toyota Tercel (SL,SL1)
Toyota Corolla (SL1,SL2)
Nissan Sentra
Mazda 323/Protoge'
Subaru Loyale/Impreza
Isuzu Stylus
Geo Prizm
Ford Escort
Mercury Tracer
Mistubishi Mirage
Plymouth/Dodge Colt


Their core competition is the Civic, Corolla, and Sentra.  Most of the other
models are in the same class, but aren't the first cars you would think of.
I threw in the Escort/Tracer because it has a good amount of Japanese
technology and has similar reliability stats.  I didn't include domestic small
cars such as the Cavalier, Sunbird, Shadow, Sundance, Tempo, and Topaz, since I
think Saturn is going after cars that have at least some degree of Japanese
roots.

The SC1/SC2 was meant to compete against the following cars:

Toyota Paseo
Honda Civic Si/Civic Coupes/del Sol Si
Nissan NX1600/NX2000
Mazda MX-3
Isuzu Impulse
Geo Storm
Ford Escort GT


If you look at the prices of these cars, they're more expensive than they're
4-door counterparts.  The is good reason for this.  It is a more upscale and
trend-driven market.  Even though many of these models are based on sedan
platforms, their interior, etc. is good enough to warrant slightly higher
prices.  Here are some of the platform derivations I can think of:

Tercel -> Paseo
Sentra -> NX1600/NX2000
Civic -> del Sol
323 -> MX-3 (not sure on this one)
Stylus -> Impulse/Storm

To illustrate, a Tercel starts at around $8000, while the Paseo starts at
around $11,000.  Even a 4-door Tercel will cost less than a 2-door Paseo.  Now,
you might be saying that the Tercel doesn't offer the power that some 4-doors
offer.  What I mean is that there is no 4-dr Tercel with a comparable
powerplant as its sport coupe derivative.  Let's take another example: the
Isuzu Stylus XS and Impulse XS/Storm GSi.  Both have the same powerplants (a
1.6L 140hp engine), but the smaller 2-dr coupes are generally more expensive.
Again, this is because the two-door sport coupe market is a more
fashion-oriented and trend-setting segment.  People are willing to pay more
money for this type of car.  


In short, even though the SC1/SC2 may be smaller, hence "less" car, it's market
orientation dictates a slightly higher price than its mechanically equivalent
sedan (SL1/SL2) version.

I hope this clears things up a bit......


Mihir Shah
	 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101678
Subject: apology (was Re: Did US drive on the left?)
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)


In a previous article, dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu ("Daniel U. Holbrook") says:

>>i'm guessing, but i believe in the twenties we probably drove mostly down
>>cattle trails and in wagon ruts.  I am fairly sure that placement of the 
>>steering wheel was pretty much arbitrary to the company at that time.....
>
>By the 1920s, there was a very active "good roads" movement, which had
>its origins actually in the 1890s during the bicycle craze, picked up
>steam in the teens (witness the Linclon Highway Association, 1912 or so,
>and the US highway support act (real name: something different) in 1916
>that first pledged federal aid to states and counties to build decent
>roads. Also, the experience of widespread use of trucks for domestic
>transport during WW 1 convinced the government that good raods were
>crucial to our national defense.  Anyway, by the 20s there were plenty
>of good roads, at least around urban areas, and they were rapidly
>expanding into the countryside.  This was the era, after all, of the
>first auto touring fad, the motel, the auto camp ground, etc. Two good
>books on the subject spring to mind - Warren Belasco "America on the
>Road" (title may not be exact - author is) and another called "The Devil
>Wagon in God's Country" author I forget.  Also, any of John Flink's  or
>John Bell Rae's auto histories.

i'm sorry, as i have never heard of any of this.  Guess they don't think
it's important enough for a classroom, and i was going on what i've seen
in pics.(some movies--real nice scource there, huh?)  I just always 
recall thinking that GOOD roads of asphalt didn't come around til the
Interstate Hiway Act, or whatever they called it(60's?), and that wood and
cobblestone roads were fairly rare up through the depression, except in
overpopulated places like England and US cities.  Obviously netwisdom
says i am wrong.

>As to placement of the steering wheel being arbitrary, by the early
>teens there were virtually no American cars that did not have the wheel
>on the left.  In the early days, cars had the wheel on the left, on the
>right, and even in the middle, as well as sometimes having a tiller
>instead of a wheel.  This was standardized fairly early on, though I
>don't know why.

i knew it was almost always done, but i knew of no reason that it might not
be done the other way by DeSoto for their car.  Seems like they had some
other deviations from the norm too, at times :-)

>Dan
>dh3q@andrew.cmu.edu
>Carnegie Mellon University
>Applied History
>
>"World history strides on from catastrophe to catastrophe, whether we
>can comprehend and prove it or not."
>               Oswald Spengler

thanx for corrrecting me, and again, i aplogize for harebraned post.
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101679
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (CarolinaFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000

jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:

>In article <1993Apr6.200200.29965@progress.com> damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio) writes:
>>
>>rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>>
>>>>     There's only one car that really fits your needs. It's spelled:
>>>>
>>>>			  5.0 LITER MUSTANG
>>
>sports car, butm my mothers '88 GT was considered a sports car.
>I still can't quite figure that out, since when do plastic add-ons
>make a car a sports car?

>Jeff

	We're talking about insurance agents from Bumf**k Illinois (ST.FARM is
HQ'ed in Bloomington).  What the hell do  they know about cars...  Both are
sports cars...  :-)












-- 
Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois/Urbana Champaign mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************************************************************
*"Because he was human      Because he had goodness      Because he was moral*
***************They called him insane..."  Peart "Cinderella Man"*************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101680
From: mark@ve6mgs.ampr.org (Mark G. Salyzyn)
Subject: Re: Do it yourself front-end alignment possible?

davidd@lonestar.utsa.edu (David . De Leon) writes:

>In article <113364@bu.edu> selick@csa.bu.edu (Steven Selick) writes:
>>I've got an 86 Plymouth Colt that I'd like to do a front-end alignment
>>on. Is it possible to do without all of the fancy schmancy gadgets the
>>pros have? How?
>>-Steve
>NO.NO.NO.NO.
>If you do so, you are putting the lives of others on the road at consider-
>able risk.  Why do you think mechanics are ASE certified??  Anyway you put
>it, you need those *fancy scmancy* gadgets...

Awww, right, you want all the home mechanics lined up against a wall and
shot eh?

Bull Pucky you chicken! Read the service manual and get your head out of the
sand! Certainly there are tools for the job that are cheaper than an alignment
rack, that do the job as competently (albeit, not as swiftly), if not
more accurate, due to the natural pride an owner/mechanic places on his work.
You can do an `acceptable' job of aligning a car using simple tools and
some imaginative work that would *never* have the effect of endangering
anyones life. The worst that happens is that your tires wear oddly (well,
you could have the wheels aiming TOTALLY pigeon toed and not be able
to steer the car, raise your hands those that think their vision is
so poor that they would screw up this badly!)

I bet you are one of those people that feels that honing a cylinder wall
with sand paper will kill millions of people. It aint magic. Go take the
certification course, and look at the people that have never learned to add
in their whole life that are taking the certification!

BTW, I am disgusted at the Colt (and some of the other Chrysler offerings)
because they go out of alignment if you sneaze at them. My '84 Chrysler
Laser (Similar to the Daytona, a reskinned Colt) needed a realignment every
3 months ... Bolt a good grade 12' 2x4 to each wheel, using a carefully welded
spacer jig. Measure toe in, adjust to manufacturer specs. Camber a bit more
difficult to adjust and measure ... I used a micrometer to measure the
space between the rim and a funky bent up pipe that could be placed on
upper and lower portions of the rim on the inside of wheel (hard to explain).
This same tool could be used instead of the 2x4s.  I had made these tools up
*right* after the last alignment done professionally so I had a reference that
the original poster might not ...

Ciao -- Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 101681
From: jobin@server.uwindsor.ca (Scarecrow)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

seningen@maserati.ross.com (Mike Seningen)
> 85 Mph speedos -- esp. the electronic ones.
>
> The digital dash of the 87 cougars with the large analog clock in
> the middle of the dash -- everything was digital except the stinking clock?

  The funny thing about the digital dash (87 T-bird) with the 85mph speedo 
limit was that if you pressed the button to convert to kilometers it would 
read all the way up to 187kph.  At this point the stock anemic 302 would get 
short of breath.  This of course was equivalent to about 116mph (hehe).I bet 
I really coulda confused this thing if I'd toyed with the engine and rolled
the stupid thing (the digits were limited to 199). 

  I've gotta agree with ya on the analog clock w/digital dash though.  My
girlfriend had a '85 TurboCoupe with a digital clock and analog gauges/radio.
Go figure...


usenet@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu (Usenet Administrator)
> I love the keyless entry on my T-Bird; it's great for those times that
> I had to stop to put air in my tires. I could get out and lock the door
> with the engine running while I ran around to air up the tire. It also

  I had a great feature on my T-bird....  I could pull the key out and 
leave the ignition on.  This scared the hell out of me the first time it
happened but I kinda grew to like it.  Musta been a bad key copy or 
something.

Mark Novakovic
-----
"There is no god up in the sky tonight      __ _
no sign of heaven anywhere in sight"  -nin /_/\/\ "Jesus loves ya. Blow me."
   _  _         __  _      _               \_\  /  -- In tribute to my former
  / \/ \   /||\    / \|\  / \\         /   /_/  \  area supervisor Jim Bonneau
  \ /     / || \__/   | \/   \\       /    \_\/\ \ and the infamous Bonneau Math
   \\    /__||_/  \   |_/\   / \  /  /        \_\/ (demoted not departed)
 \_/ \_//   || \__ \_/| \ \_/   \/ \/ Ministry

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102733
From: buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck)
Subject: Re: Do trains have radar?

hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
> I came upon a 
> train parked on a trestle with its locomotive sitting directly over
> the northbound lanes. [...] Just as I passed from underneath the trestle,
> my radar detector went into full alert - all lights lit and all chirps,
> beeps, and buzzes going strong.
> Could this have been caused by the train's radio or what?

recently-manufactured locomotives have wheel-slip detection systems
that use frequencies shared with police radar (i forget which band).
these will set off your radar detector if you get close enough, though
i believe the range is pretty short.

BTW, railroad police sometimes use radar to check for speeding trains
(just like regular police check for speeding cars), although the
intent here is for safety, not revenue collection (unlike with cars).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102734
From: hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

In article <zdem0a.734809554@hgo7>, zdem0a@hgo7.hou.amoco.com (Donna Martz) writes:

> >So, I block the would-be passers. Not only for my own good , 
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >but theirs as well even though they are often too stupid to realize it.
>  !!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!!
> >As a rule of philosophy, I don't feel particularly sorry when somebody gets 
> >offed by his own stupidity, but It does worry me when some idiot is in a 
> >position to cash in my chips, too.
> >                                                           H.H. Mayo
> 
> Well, Aren't we just Mr. Altruism himself!!   Just what the world needs,
> another frustrated self appointed traffic cop.


Well, if you want to stick the nose of your car up the ass of a 50 foot semi, I
suppose it's your neck, however, I'm not going to let you kill me in the bargain.
If you get frustrated by somebody delaying your inevitable death due to less that
wise driving practices, then TOUGH!!!





"Thank God for the Fourth of July, for it yearly rids the earth of a considerable
load of fools"

                                                              Mark Twain


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102735
From: rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ronald.j.deblock..jr)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr14.171718.18852@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> sheinfel@ssd.comm.mot.com (Aviad Sheinfeld) writes:
>
>>	Do you think I can use a electric drill( change to a suitable
>>bit ) to turn it out?  If I can succeed, can I re-tighten it not too
>>tight, is it safe without oil leak?
>
>Tighten the bolt to the specified torque in your service manual.  That
>way it won't leak, strip, break, etc. (hopefully :-) )
>>
>>Thank you very much in advance------  Winson
>
>Aviad

You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in
place of the bolt.  I have one on both of my cars.  There have been no
leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars).
-- 
Ron DeBlock  rdb1@homxb.att.com  (that's a number 1 in rdb1, not letter l)
AT&T Bell Labs   Somerset, NJ  USA

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102736
From: ljbartel@naomi.b23b.ingr.com (Les Bartel)
Subject: Re: Aftermarket air-conditioners

In article <1qcaueINNmt8@axon.cs.unc.edu> Andrew Brandt writes:
|> I looked into getting a/c installed on my 1987 Honda CRX Si.
|> The unit is $875 plus shipping, installation is like 5 1/2 hours on
|> top of that.  This is a hunk of change.
|> 
|> Does anyone know *any* place that does aftermarket a/c installation
|> (not with a Honda a/c unit, but some third party unit).
|> 
|> I cannot seem to find anyone who can put a third party a/c unit in a
|> Honda.  I am in No Carolina, so I would prefer some place nearby, but
|> any references would be handy.
|>
|> Thx, Andy (brandt@cs.unc.edu)

Sorry I can't help you with your question, but I do have a comment to
make concerning aftermarket A/C units.  I have a Frost-King or Frost-Temp
(forget which) aftermarket unit on my Cavalier, and am quite unhappy with
it.  The fan is noisy, and doesn't put out much air.  I will never have
an aftermarket A/C installed in any of my vehicles again.  I just can't
trust the quality and performance after this experience.

 - les

-- 
Les Bartel			I'm going to live forever
Intergraph Corporation		... or die trying
Electronics Division		
ljbartel@ingr.com
or ljbartel@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
(205) 730-8537

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102737
From: hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--


> I agree that if traffic is all blocked up and you want to pass, you might
> not feel like moving over for someone behind you because you don't want to
> give them that one car-length, when they should just wait like you are.
> BUT, if you're one of those people that just sit's behind the person, and
> doesn't flash them with the high beams, or pull left and flash them, or
> ride their bumper, or otherwise tell them that you *do* in fact want to 
> go by, and you're not just drafting them, then get the hell out of the 
> way of someone who will!  I especially hate it when you flash someone at
> the back of a line and they don't 'pass it on'.  
> And there's also the issue of some cars being more intimidating to get 
> people out of the way than others...  (For instance '85-'86 GTs look 
> pretty mean in a rearview mirror at night with the foglights on...  :^)
> There have been plenty of times when I've broken up a pack that a 
> second-in-line hyundai has been behind for miles...  You just need to
> know how to get their attention...


I'd like to see you use this method on a couple of semi drivers. If they see you,
they usually acknowledge by sticking their hand out the window with their middle
finger extended. Because it is also obvious to them that there is no clear lane
ahead.  



                                                      H.H.M.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102738
From: tpaquette@ita.lgc.com (Trevor Paquette)
Subject: My day in court: RESULTS


  A while back I asked for help in defending a traffic ticket I received.
 In short:
     The ticket was for not stopping at a stop sign. Given the conditions
   I could not stop in time and decided instead of sliding right through the
   intersection, I would complete my right-turn and avoid a possible accident.
   A police cruiser happened to be approaching the intersection from my left
   and gave me the ticket.
     The officer said "The only reason that you even slowed down in the first
   place was that you saw me approaching, otherwise you would have bombed right
   through"


  I would like to thank all those who responded favorably to my request for
 help. To all of those who told me to bite the bullet and pay the fine:
 PHGHGHGHGH..

 The judge sided with me and decided that in this case "Not stopping" was the
 safest thing to do and found me NOT GUILTY.

  The officer's statement and my account of the conditions at the time (very
  slippery, backed by newpaper weather conditions) were the factors what made
  the judge decide on his verdict.


  Moral: If you have never been to court before and you think you have a case,
	 go for it. It is a very interesting process, and it is there for
	 your benefit. Exercise your rights.


 Trev
--
Name : Trevor Paquette       | Landmark/ITA             |  _\___ Fahrvergnuegen
Email: tpaquette@ita.lgc.com | Calgary, Alberta, Canada | /     \____
Visitor from CyberSpace      | (403) 269-4669           |/ G60       \
Renegade of Virtual Reality  | #include <disclaimer.h>  |\-O------O--/

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102739
From: larry@boris.webo.dg.com (Larry Rogers)
Subject: Re: Saturn 91-92 Manual Transmission Problem


I had exactly the same problem with a 1981 Horizon.  Third gear would
just disengage.  Engine would rev up.  Kind of disconcerting.

I sold that car quite a few years back but the memory of that tranny
sticks with me.  It also had a clutch chatter in first that the dealer
could not fix.  If the lemon law had been in place then, that car
would have been covered.

I have had several Jap cars since then (figuring the Horizon was my
contribution to the American Auto Companies), and have never seen any
bad behavior with the exception of a Toyota Tercel with a bit of
clutch chatter that they did fix on the first try.

Anyway, from that day forward, I have sworn that I would never
purchase another American car with a standard.  American manufacturers
don't have a clue on how to manufacture five speed transmissions and
have been doing the automatics much longer and on many more cars.
However, I hate automatics, so I am still buying Jap cars.

Not sure this is any help, but other cars do this too.

Cheers, Larry
--
    @@               Larry Rogers               *
   @@@               larry_rogers@dg.com        *   Big Brother
   @@@ &&&           larry@boris.webo.dg.com    *   is Watching
    @@ &&            Data General  508-870-8441 * 

The opinions contained herein are my own, and do not reflect the
opinions of Data General or anyone else, but they should.

"Sometimes we are the windshield, sometimes we are the bug"
   Dire Straits

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102740
From: sawicki@naspac.tc.faa.gov (Michael J. Sawicki CTA)
Subject: Regal fiberglass parts ??

 I have a 1982 Regal and I am interested in buying
a fiberglass hood, trunk, and bumpers for it.  Does anybody
know of a company who makes fiberglass parts for Regals ??


		Thanks in advance,


			-Mike


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102741
From: bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss)
Subject: Re: Do trains have radar?

In article <x!fvt=b@dixie.com>, jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
|> hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> > While taking an extended Easter vacation, I was going north on I-45
|> > somewhere between Centerville, TX and Dallas, TX and I came upon a 
|> > train parked on a trestle with its locomotive sitting directly over
|> > the northbound lanes.  There appeared to be movement within the cab 
|> > and out of curiosity I slowed to 85 to get a better look.  Just as I
|> > passed from underneath the trestle, my radar detector went into full 
|> > alert - all lights lit and all chirps, beeps, and buzzes going strong.
|> > I thought I had been nailed good but no police materialized.
|> 
|> Some, but not all, locomotives have doppler speedometers.  The radar head is 
|> mounted looking down at the ground (to minimize intereference sent and 
|> received) but looking tangentally at a wheel.  These are low power units
|> and typically won't trigger radar detectors unless an unusual situation
|> such as yours arises.
|> 
|> John
|> 
|> -- 
|> John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
|> Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
|> Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
|> jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
|> Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.


This makes sense(radar pointed down), because almost every train I pass head-on that triggers
my radar detector does so more just after I have passed the front of the engine.
I get a little of the reflections as I am approaching and the instant I get to
the side of the first engine the detector receives a fairly strong signal for
a short time. It happens with just about EVERY train I see.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102742
From: wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu (Bill Mayhew)
Subject: Re: electronic odometers (was: Used BMW Question ..... ???)

I consulted with someone working on an electronic odometer.  The
design was to use a microprocessor based system to write a somewhat
ofuscated pattern into an EEPROM.  The idea was to make the circuit
difficult to program arbitrary values into the EEPROM.  The
secondary purpose, acutally the primary purpose from the standpoint
of practicality, was to distributed the writes so as to avoid
exceeing the maximum number of writes fof the EEPROM being used.
The microprocessor also ignored pulses coming from the Hall effect
at a rate any higher than 110 MPH so as to make spoofing the reading
by bench pulsing at least somewhat undesirable.  This was for an
automobile that was not expected to ever exceed 110 MPH in
operation.  The case, of course, might not be the same for your
1993 RX-7!

The ECM modules of some cars do indeed store info about conditions
under which cars have been operated.  Since steering angle and
velocity data, etc is available it would not be difficult to
collect all sorts of interesting demographic information about the
drivers' use of the car.  I am not aware of any manufacturer
currently trying to enforce warranty restrictions based on reading
out use data from the ECM.  While it could be a potential invasion
of your privacy for manufacturers to have access to data about your
driving style, it could also provide valuable information from
actual field use conditions to help engineer more appropriate cars.
I personally wouldn't mind the dealer collecting my driving
demographics as long as it is done in an anonymous fashion.


-- 
Bill Mayhew      NEOUCOM Computer Services Department
Rootstown, OH  44272-9995  USA    phone: 216-325-2511
wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu (140.220.1.1)    146.580: N8WED

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102743
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NISSAN


In a previous article, smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris) says:


>or, here's an even better suggestion, why don't you guys go ahead and
>buy the rest of Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru) and put either an
>in-line 4 or V-6 into the LEGACY 4WD wagon.  I'd buy the Legacy in a
>minute if it had a Nissan engine instead of the Horizontal 4 that they
>seem sentimentally attached to.

What do you find so wrong with the flat 6 in the Subaru's, or the flat 4 for that
matter?
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102744
Subject: After-Market Cruise Controls: Specific Questions
From: MikeW@Canc.byu.edu (M.D. (Mike) Wieda)

Howdy,

I'm a little new to this newsgroup, but I would like to tap some of the
knowledge and expertise available here.

The Subject:  After-market cruise controls

The Background:
I recently broke my ankle in a road-bicycling accident (4 places, five 
screws, yuk! :-( ).  In two weeks I will be returning to Texas (my
home) from my school (BYU) in Provo, Utah.  As you can imagine, trying to
drive nearly 1300 miles with a broken right ankle isn't just the epitome of
a good time.  My car does not have a cruise control, so I would have to do
all the pedalling (ha ha) with my messed-up ankle.

My question:
What is the general opinion of after-market cruise control units?  I
realize that a cheap CC (cruise control) from, say, Pep Boys, isn't going to
be as good as a factory or professionally installed unit (if there is such a
thing).  And I uderstand that I probably can't expect much in the way of
accuracy, looks and that sort of thing;  But anything's gotta be better than
trying to drive with a hosed ankle.

I have a 1984 Jeep Cherokee, 4 speed, standard, 4*4, 2.5L engine with
kettering(sp?) ignition (y'know, distributor cap, rotor, that set-up--not
electronic.  Maybe you could've guessed it being an '84, but I'm just trying
to give information as completly as I can).

I found a CC unit for 80 bucks.  It seems to use the vehicles vacuum system 
instead of an electric servor/motor.  Is this good or bad?  If I did buy
this CC, which vacuum hose should I tap?

It has two speed sensors:  One magnetic, and one that gets a signal from the 
negative side of the distributor, kinda like a tach pick-up, or so I
understand.  I can use either one.  Which is best?  The manual says (I read
it in the store today) that the magnetic/axle set-up is more accurate, but
harder to install.  Is there really a big difference?

It has a sensor for the brake pedal, just like other CCs, but does NOT have a
sensor for the clutch pedal.  So if I wasn't paying real close attention I
might push the clutch in while the cruise is trying to get the speed up.  Which
would wind the engine up kinda high until I got my wits about me and turned 
the thing off.  I'm pretty coordinated, so this doesn't bother me, if it
were for my girlfriends car, *then* it would bother me, but I'm ok with it.

The installation also calls for an attachment to a steady-on brake signal
and a switched-on brake signal.  I think I can get a switched brake signal
from the correct side of the brake light blade fuse.  Am I right?  But I'm
not sure where to get the steady-on brake signal, or, for that matter, what
exactly it is?  Any ideas as to what the manufaturer wants and where to get
it?

I think I can figure the other things out.  Like how to hook-up the negative
side tach-type sensing gizmo and the cabin control unit, and the ground and
all that miscellaneous business.  But I need a little help with:

	1.  Is it worth the money and safety risk (if any) for such a
	    device?
	2.  Is there any particularly good after-market CC?
	3.  Are "professionally" installed CCs signifacantly better and
	    worth the cabbage?
	4.  If the unit I saw (sorry, no manufacturer or model number, just
	    that it is at Pep Boy and its $80) is sufficient for my simple 
	    needs, how do I get the thing installed properly (specifically,
	    the questions above)?

My father and I built a "Veep" (Volkswagen powered Jeep CJ-2A) when I was in
high school, so I consider myself fairly good with tools, electronics, and
cars.  So the installation doesn't scare me.  I just want to be certain that
I get the thing installed correctly as my Cherokee is just a wee bit more
complicated than my Veep. :-)

I appreciate your time in reading my post, and I would appreciate any
expertise or opinion anybody has on the subject.  If you would like to share
some of your wisdom, please email as I don't get over this group very often
(but I check my mail all the time).

Again, thanks for any help anyone may have.

Mike Wieda
Mikew@canc.byu.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102745
From: "Daniel U. Holbrook" <dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

Rob Reilly:

>whips and their tempers. Initially, all cars were built with the driver's
>controls on the right because that's the way people drove buggies, so the

This is just not so - many of the earliest cars had their steering
controls in the center of the vehicle, and there is no discernible
pattern of left- or right-hand steering controls until a few years into
the 20th century, when, in America at least, left-hand wheels became the
pattern. The mule team (or horses, I imagine) explanation, however,
seems to have some merit.

Dan
dh3q@andrew.cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University
Applied History

"This coffee plunges into the stomach...the mind is aroused, and
ideas pour forth like the battalions of the Grand Army on the field
of battle....  Memories charge at full gallop...the light cavalry
of comparisons deploys itself magnificently; the artillery of logic
hurry in with their train of ammunition; flashes of wit pop up like
sharp-shooters." 
               Honore de Balzac, 30 cups/day.





Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102746
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: LICENSE PLATES NISSAN


In a previous article, edf003@marshall.wvnet.edu () says:

>Hi, I'm interested in getting the list for license plate numbers.  If anyone
>has a listing I'd appreciate getting a copy of it.  Thanks!
>
You must be _incredibly_ bored.  Have you considered reading the phone book?
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102747
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: Isuzu Amigo Opinions sought


In a previous article, sdexter@shl.com (Scott Dexter) says:


>I like the Amigo; I would like some feedback...
>
>Any and all feedback appreciated-


Yet another Jeep wannabe designed for yuppies who will never take it off road but want
to look "outdoorsey".
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102748
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: LICENSE PLATES




In a previous article, edf003@marshall.wvnet.edu () says:

>>Hi, I'm interested in getting the list for license plate numbers.  If anyone
>>has a listing I'd appreciate getting a copy of it.  Thanks!
>>
You must be _incredibly_ bored.  Have you considered reading the phone book?
-- 

-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102749
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Truck tailgates/mileage

In article <1993Mar30.203846.85644@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> jh03@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JUN HE) writes:
>In article <1993Mar26.221840.1204@nosc.mil>, koziarz@halibut.nosc.mil (Walter A.
> Koziarz) writes:
>>In article <51300059@hpscit.sc.hp.com> chrisw@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Chris Wiles) wr
>ites:
>>
>>
>>>      Consumers report did a study I think and found that most
>>>trucks got worse mileage with the tailgate off. The tailgates on the
>>>newer trucks actually help.
>>
>>oh, sure they do...  and replacing the front bumper and grille with a closet
>>door helps mileage *and* cooling.  *if* CR actually said that, then they have
>>bigger fools working for them than the fools that believe their drivel...  but,
>>who am I to argue this?  just someone that's been a pickup-driver for 20+
>>years, that's all.  forget the 'net', just take off the tailgate on hiway trips
>>since the nets aren't designed to nor capable of restraining a load in the bed
>>anyway.  around town, the tailgate will have a negligable effect on mileage
>>anyway.
>>
>>Walt K.
>>
>They may help to improve mileage in some cases, I believe. With the tailgate
>on the flow structure behind the cab may differ and the vortex drag may be
>reduced during high speed driving.

How about those toneau covers? I've been thinking of building one
from chipboard for roadtrips. Any comment on how they affect
mileage in highway travel?

Charles
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102750
From: Srinagesh Gavirneni <sg48+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: 86 chevy sprint

I have a 86 chevy sprint with a/c and 4doors. It's odometer turned 90k
and the sensor light started blinking. I went to the dealer and he said
it was a maintenance light saying I need to change the Oxygen sensor. He
said, It is to be changed every 30k, but since I bought the car when it
had 77k, I don't know if the same thing happened at 30k and 60k.  He
quoted $198 for the part and $50 to install it. The part cost $30
outside, but the mechanic I went to could not fix it saying the sensor
is placed too deep in the engine parts. He suggested I wait till it
malfunctions before I do anything.  If anyone out there owns a chevy
sprint, I want to know how they got their Oxygen sensors changed. Also,
did you face any problem with fixing it without the dealer's help. Also,
what are the results of the oxygen sensor malfunction. 
  Any help would be greatly apprecisted
   Thanks
      Nagesh

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102751
From: (Eric Youngblood)
Subject: Re: Old Corvettes / Low insurance?

In article <1993Apr15.011805.28485@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, swr2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT WARREN ROSANDER) writes:
|> In article <C5Csux.Fn1@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, gdhg8823@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (George Hei
|> nz) writes:
|> >After too many years of school I'm finally graduating and getting a real
|> >job.  Of course I am trying to make plans of how to spend all this extra
|> >money.  Right now I have an 89 accord, a good car, but not real sporty &
|> >I was thinking of selling it in about two years and dropping around
|> >$20k on a sports car of some kind.  After thinking about it, I may have a
|> >better idea -- I'll keep the Accord until it drops and buy the car I've
|> >always wanted -- a Corvette Stingray. My reasoning is that $8000 (accord)+
|> >$8000 (corvette) =$16000 is less than what I would spend anyway.
|> >
|> >Basically, I'm thinking of a late 70's, early 80's for around $7-$10k.
|> >My question is, what are good years to consider (for reliability, looks,
|> >horsepower -- in that order, believe it or not, horsepower is not a main
|> >concern, if I want to go fast, I get on my motorcycle) and what are
|> >good prices?
|> >
|> >Also, what would insurance look like?  I'm male, single, 23 (I might
|> >wait until I'm 25 to get the car = lower insurance). Would the fact that
|> >I mainly drive the other car lower it?  Is there some type of "classic
|> >car" or "rarely driven" insurance class for driving it under 10k miles
|> >per year?
|> >
|>     My dad has a 66 vette and its on what you say 'classic insurance'.
|>     Basically what that means is that it has restricted amount of driving
|>     time, which basically means it cant be used as an every day car and would
|>     probably suit your needs for limited mileage.
|> -- 


In addition to restricted mileage, many classic insurance carriers also require
that the vehicle be garaged when not in use.

$0.02

Ericy


      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*
      | Eric Youngblood                                             |
      | Bell-Northern Research    _                                 |
      | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~-                               |
      |                         \,  _}                              |
      |                           \(    +---------------------------|
      |                                 |   Peon w/o Email privs    |
      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102752
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <1993Apr15.135514.29579@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
(ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes:

>You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in
>place of the bolt.  I have one on both of my cars.  There have been no
>leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars).

Yes, but then someone would have no problem draining your oil in a parking lot.

all they have to do is reach underneath, turn a valve, and forget the trip 
home.
But there is less likelyhood they have a wrench with them.

I personally recommend, installing a 'special' locking drain plug to keep
vandals away. :---)

steve

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102753
From: dilmore@cray.com (Robert J. Dilmore)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <C5HqJ0.57@unix.amherst.edu> bhtulin@unix.amherst.edu (Barak H. Tulin) writes:
>I just started reading this thread today, so forgive me if it has already been
>mentioned.  But...what was the deal with Renault's putting the horn on the
>left-hand turn-signal stalk?  It was a button on the end, where the washer
>button would be on the wiper/washer stalk.  Could the Frenchies not figure
>out the wiring through the steering wheel, or what?

  Well, before we start calling the Engineering folks in France a bunch of
braindeads for this... 
  My 1979 Mercury Capri had this lovely feature. This was not the earlier
German variant but the newer one that was identical to the Mustang of 
current fame. I can't tell you how many times this feature pissed me off.
Come to think of it my brothers Zepher had this as well.

Robert Dilmore
dilmore@cray.com

>
>Going back to an earlier thread, imagine having to turn left, shift gears,
>flash a stray driver in the intersection with your left-hand high beam on
>the headlight stalk, AND, after the driver wouldn't move, having to honk the
>horn on the left-hand stalk!  Gives me the heebie-jeebies.
>
>--Barak
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102754
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick 'Open VMS 4ever' Colombo)
Subject: Re: Do trains/busses have radar?

In article <C5FqFy.Fpq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:
> In <1993Apr13.111652@usho72.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
> 
> 
>> While taking an extended Easter vacation, I was going north on I-45
>> somewhere between Centerville, TX and Dallas, TX and I came upon a 
>> train parked on a trestle with its locomotive sitting directly over
>> the northbound lanes.  There appeared to be movement within the cab 
>> and out of curiosity I slowed to 85 to get a better look.  Just as I
>> passed from underneath the trestle, my radar detector went into full 
>> alert - all lights lit and all chirps, beeps, and buzzes going strong.
>> I thought I had been nailed good but no police materialized.
> 
>> Could this have been caused by the train's radio or what?
> 
>

I don't know about trains, but I've saw a sign on the back of a
Greyhound bus that warns you that your radar detector may be set off.
It doesn't explain why, but it does set off my radar detector.

___________________________________________________________________________
*****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
*      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
*      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
*    Of course I speak for: Fermilab, Congress and the President... NOT!!!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102755
From: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Subject: Re: "Sprayed-on" Bedliner Info Wanted

In rec.autos, dennis@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Dennis Schloeman) writes:
xSorry to repost this again so soon, but
xthe information from my earlier post was
xdeleted from our system.
>
xI am looking for information concerning
x"sprayed-on" bedliners for pickup trucks.
xA company here does it using polyurethene
xbut they've only been around for 9 months
xso there's not much of a track record here.
xIs the sprayed-on bedliner any good?  How
xwell do they hold up over the years?  Any
xinfo would be appreciated.
x
xThanks.
x
xDennis
Do you have a Ziebart dealer in your area? They've offered spray
on bed liners around here for several years. If you do, see what
kind of a warranty they have. ( Unfortunately, I don't know anyone
who has gotten one so I can't help you there.) Also ask if they
can give you a list of references.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mack Costello <mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)
David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC    ___/-\____
Bethesda, MD 20084-5000   Phone (301) 227-2431          (__________>|

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102756
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <1qhs7dINNj2b@hp-col.col.hp.com> tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom  
Vervaeke) writes:
>    ... experience with Jeep service dept ...
>
While not exactly a service incident, I had a similar experience recently  
when I bought a new truck.

I had picked out the vehicle I wanted and after a little haggling we  
agreed on a price. I wrote them a check for the down payment plus tax
and license and told them I'd be back that evening to pick up the truck.  
When I returned, I had to wait about an hour before the finance guy could  
get to me. When I finally got in there, everything went smoothly until he  
started adding up the numbers. He then discovered that they had  
miscalculated the tax & license by about $150. He then said he needed  
another $150 from me. I said we had already agreed on a price and it was  
their problem, I wasn't giving them any more money. The finance guy then  
brought in the manager on duty who proceeded to give me a hard time. I  
reminded him that I was the customer and I didn't think I should be  
treated like that and that if he didn't back off he could forget the whole  
deal. He made some smart remark so I told him where he could stick it,  
snatched back my check and left. Needless to say, they were not pleased by  
the turn of events.

Early the next morning I got a call from the general sales manager wanting  
to know what happened. I related the story and he apologised profusely and  
asked if there was anything they could do to change my mind. I told him  
that if they gave me the truck for free I probably still wouldn't take it,  
that there were other dealers in town, I was a repeat customer of theirs  
and that they should learn how to treat customers,etc,etc...I was still  
pretty steamed about the whole affair. He gave me the line about hating to  
lose a customer and they would try to find a solution, etc, etc. I told  
him not to bother, thanks, I'd go somewhere else.

A couple hours later, the owner of the dealership called me, all  
apologetic, etc, etc, etc, and said that they would cover the $150 plus  
knock another $400 off the price of the truck. I told him I'd think about  
it and he gave me his private, direct phone number, his secretary's name,  
and assured me that they valued me as a customer, etc etc etc....

I thought about it for a few hours and discussed it with my wife and we  
decided, what the hell...that was a pretty decent deal, so I called him  
back and accepted his offer. When I went back the next day to pick up the  
truck, I received the royal treatment. Everyone seemed to know about the  
incident, even the lot boy. Everything went smoothly and I was out of  
there in my new truck in about 30 mins.

So, I guess I'm a reasonably satisfied customer. However, it should not  
have happened in the first place. I was a bit shocked to have a sales  
person talk to me like that. I don't expect them to bow and grovel, but I  
sure don't expect to be given a hard time either, esp. when it's their  
mistake.

Anyway, I'm happy with the truck and it turned out to be a couple hundred  
dollars under invoice and they paid most of the first year's license fee.  
I'm not sure whether I'll go back to that dealer, tho.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102757
From: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In rec.autos, boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
xIn article <1qgi8eINNhs5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> yiklam@unixg.ubc.ca (Yik Chong Lam)
x writes:
x>Hello,
x>
x>       Does anyone know how to take out the bolt under the engine
x>compartment?  Should I turn clockwise or counter?  I tried any kind
x>of lubricants, WD-40,etc, but I still failed!
x>       Do you think I can use a electric drill( change to a suitable
x>bit ) to turn it out?  If I can succeed, can I re-tighten it not too
x>tight, is it safe without oil leak?
x
xAssuming you don't have a Russian car with opposite threads, then
xyou turn counterclockwise. I would get some professional
xhelp here, you may not have located the draing plug and
xactually be trying to loosen something else.
x
xCraig
x>
x>
x>Thank you very much in advance------  Winson
x>
 This reminds me of the first time my cousin did an oil change on his
car. He crawled under, removed a bolt, drained the fluid, replaced the
bolt, then carefully poured in 5 quarts of oil. Didn't bother to
check the dip stick, just drove off. Didn't get too far till me found
out that he'd drained the 4-speed trans and dumped an extra 5 quarts
into the engine.:( MORAL: As Craig said don't be ashamed to get some
*in person* help the first time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mack Costello <mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)
David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC    ___/-\____
Bethesda, MD 20084-5000   Phone (301) 227-2431          (__________>|

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102758
From: bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.160922.8797@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1993Apr15.135514.29579@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
|> (ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes:
|> 
|> >You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in
|> >place of the bolt.  I have one on both of my cars.  There have been no
|> >leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars).
|> 
|> Yes, but then someone would have no problem draining your oil in a parking lot.
|> 
|> all they have to do is reach underneath, turn a valve, and forget the trip 
|> home.
|> But there is less likelyhood they have a wrench with them.
|> 
|> I personally recommend, installing a 'special' locking drain plug to keep
|> vandals away. :---)
|> 
|> steve

I was worried about someone stealing my oil once also. I finally 
decided to just have my drain plug welded shut. It works great !
I figure that when I add three or four quarts when the oil light
comes on every month or so that it's just as good or better than
the old wives tale of changing the oil AND filter every 3000 miles.
Works for me, I must say. 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102759
From: drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.160922.8797@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>
>In article <1993Apr15.135514.29579@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
>(ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes:
>
>>You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in
>>place of the bolt.  I have one on both of my cars.  There have been no
>>leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars).
>
>Yes, but then someone would have no problem draining your oil in a parking lot.
>
>all they have to do is reach underneath, turn a valve, and forget the trip 
>home.

Most cars have drain petcocks in the radiators, and I've never 
seen nor heard of a vandal opening one.  I imagine that there
would be an even lower risk with an oil plug because you have 
to crawl furthur under the car to open it.  

Car vandals are usually real traditional in their methods, and do things
that don't get them dirty, like keying your car, dumping sand, sugar
or mothballs in the gas tank, TPing it, etc.

-- 
Boycott USL/Novell for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit. | Drew Eckhardt
Condemn Colorado for Amendment Two.		       | drew@cs.Colorado.EDU
Use Linux, the fast, flexible, and free 386 unix       |  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102760
From: cm@cci632.cci.com (Carl Mercer)
Subject: 1986 Mazda forsale




For sale - Mazda 323

	1986 Mazda 323
	White exterior, Grey interior.
	75,000 miles
	Interior in very good condition.
	Exterior in good condition

	Pioneer DX 680 car stereo.
		- CD player
		- 18 FM presets, 6 AM
		- removable faceplate
		- seperate component speakers professionally mounted
		  in the doors.

The car has been well maintained.  I wax it often and keep the interior
clean.  Its a good running car with a solid body (no rust thru, tiny
spots of surface rust.  When I see a spot I touch it up.)  The stereo
makes the car.  I have had no mechanical problems with it.

I'm looking for $900.00 firm.  The car has an average wholesale value of 
about $900.00 without the stereo.  The stereo cost me $500.00 last July.

If you are interested, call or Email me at:

				Carl Mercer
				cm@cci.com
				(716) 654-2652
				(716) 359-0895 evening



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102761
From: klui@corp.hp.com (Ken Lui)
Subject: Re: LICENSE PLATES

In article <1993Apr14.143750.120204@marshall.wvnet.edu> edf003@marshall.wvnet.edu writes:
>Hi, I'm interested in getting the list for license plate numbers.  If anyone
>has a listing I'd appreciate getting a copy of it.  Thanks!

You can go to the DMV and ask for their listing.  Although I
don't know where you may actually buy a copy, you can use theirs
for your perusal.  In California, the listing of personalized
license plates run 3 volumes, each about 1.5" thick.  I hope this
is what you're asking for.


Ken
-- 
Kenneth K.F. Lui, klui@corp.hp.com                  3000 Hanover Street MS20BJ
Corporate Administrative Information Systems        Palo Alto, CA  94304   USA
Core Application Technologies                1(415)857-3230 Fax 1(415)852-8026

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102762
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.rist, another dealer service scam...


In a previous article, bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss) says:


>
>I was worried about someone stealing my oil once also. I finally 
>decided to just have my drain plug welded shut. It works great !
>I figure that when I add three or four quarts when the oil light
>comes on every month or so that it's just as good or better than
>the old wives tale of changing the oil AND filter every 3000 miles.
>Works for me, I must say. 
>

I did the same thing to my drain plug for the same reasons.  I was wondering
how you filled your crankcase though as I welded my hood shut also out of fear
that somebody might steal my air-filter.
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102763
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: Welcome to to the new reader

Archive-name: rec-autos/part1

[most recent changes, 15 March 1993: addition of alt.autos.karting -- rpw]

               === Welcome to Rec.Autos.* ===

This article is sent out automatically each month, and contains a general
description of the purpose of each of the automotive newsgroups, and
some suggested guidelines for discussions.  The keywords `Monthly Posting'
will always appear to make killing this article easy for users of
newsreaders with kill facilities.  This article is posted to all autos
groups, but followups are directed only to rec.autos.  If you don't
understand what this means, ask your system administrator for help, or at
least for copies of the newuser documentation.  Failing that, please
subscribe to the newsgroup news.announce.newusers and read the
documentation provided there.

Introduction to the Rec.Autos newsgroup hierarchy:

rec.autos.tech

is intended for technical discussions of automobiles, their design,
construction, diagnosis, and service.  Other discussions are largely
inappropriate, especially For Sale ads.

rec.autos.sport

is intended for discussion of legal, organized competition involving
automobiles.  Technical discussions are appropriate insofar as they apply
to competition vehicles.  Discussion from either of two viewpoints,
spectator and participant, is encouraged.  Arguments about sports cars are
largely inappropriate, as are most other discussions.  For Sale ads are
inappropriate unless they are for competition vehicles and/or equipment.
Discussions of illegal events are marginal; one should probably avoid
advocating breaking the law.  (remember, the FBI reads Usenet!)

rec.autos.driving

is intended for discussions related to the driving of automobiles.
Also, if you must discuss 55 vs. 65, or radar detectors, or <insert
your pet driving peeve> boneheads, do it here.

rec.autos.vw

is intended for discussion of issues related to the use and ownership
of automobiles manufactured by Volkswagen (this includes VWs, Audis,
Seats, etc.)  It was created on the grounds that the info-vw mailing
list was very successful.  It should not be presumed from the existence
of this group that it is appropriate to create many groups to cover many
different marques; groups specific to individual marques should only be
created on demonstration of sufficient interest, via some avenue such as
a mailing list.

rec.audio.car

is not properly part of the rec.autos.* hierarchy.  it is, however,
the correct place for discussion of automotive audio equipment, and
so is mentioned here.

rec.autos.antique

is intended for the discussion of older cars (usually more than 25 years
old, although this is not a hard-and-fast rule.)

alt.hotrod

is not part of the hierarchy, but also of potential interest to the
rec.autos reader.  it is gatewayed to the moderated hotrod mailing
list, and is for serious discussion of modifying and developing
performance vehicles.

alt.autos.rod-n-custom

also not part of the `official' hierarchy; devoted to that peculiar
American hobby of customizing older cars.

alt.autos.karting

for the discussion of the popular motorsport and hobby, karting.

rec.autos

is intended to capture discussion on all other automotive topics.


Crossposting:

Crossposting occurs when more than one newsgroup name is included on
the Newsgroups: line in the article header; such articles will appear
in all of the newsgroups listed.

Crossposting is one of the most misunderstood and misused facilities on
Usenet.  You should only post to a group because you feel an article is
appropriate; you should NEVER crosspost just to reach a particular
audience.  This distinction is subtle, but important.  Radar Detector
articles, for example, are more-or-less appropriate in rec.autos.  They are
almost never appropriate in sci.electronics or rec.ham-radio, and the fact
that you might want to reach the audience in sci.electronics or
rec.ham-radio is NOT adequate justification for posting to either group.

Crossposting between any or all of the rec.autos.* groups is usually
inappropriate; if you find yourself doing so, consider whether or not it is
truly advisable, before sending your article.  Consider setting Followup-To:
to point to only one newsgroup if you feel you must crosspost.

Crossposting between rec.autos.* and misc.consumers is chancy at best; in
particular flame wars over the speed limit in the US and/or the use of
radar detectors should NEVER be crossposted between any of these groups.

Most readers of sci.electronics and rec.radio.* couldn't care less about
the police radar and radar detector arguments that go on endlessly in
rec.autos.

It is an excellent idea to check the Newsgroups: and Followup-to:  lines of
articles before posting a followup.  In particular, be wary of posting to
misc.test, rec.arts.startrek.*, or talk.bizarre, or any combination of these
three.  The life you save may be your own.

Distribution:

There is a field in the header of any news article which allows you to
(partially) control where the article goes; it is called the Distribution
field.  It may be very useful for many reasons; it should also serve
as a reminder that news is a very large and widespread system.

The distribution of rec.autos.* is fairly extensive.  As of this writing, 
the Automotive newsgroups are known to reach most of Europe, Australia,
New Zealand, and some locations in Japan.  With this in mind, I offer the
following hints about use of the Distribution: field in your article
headers, and on article content.

1) Please take care not to send for-sale ads about clapped out Ford
Mavericks in New Jersey to France or California; i doubt that anyone in
either place will care, except for my girlfriend, who for some strange
reason likes Mavericks (but only 4-door Mavericks, at that.)

2) When posting technical questions, please include the market for which
your car was manufactured.  For example, there are a number of differences
between a European-market Ford Escort and a US-market Escort.  Likewise,
all 1750cc and early 2000cc Alfa Romeos reached the US with Spica Fuel
injection; European market cars usually got carbs (often Webers).  These
differences can be important to your readers; make your situation clear.
Failure to do so can lead to pointless flame wars and a significant
spread of misinformation.

3) Be careful about your capacities and specifications when posting;
in the US we get a mix of Metric and English system values, whereas
Europe is almost entirely on the Metric system.  A future edition
of this monthly posting will contain a list of commonly-used
abbreviations that may not be known in some places that rec.autos
reaches; this cuts both ways so let us not be parochial about it.

4) Use the Distribution: field to limit where your article goes, when
possible.  Within North America, the values na (north america), can
(canada), and usa may be used.  in addition, the two-letter state
abbreviations of the US are supported in some cases; e.g. if i wanted
to send an article only to New York and New Jersey, i could put
"ny,nj" in a Distribution field.  note that multiple, comma-separated
values are legal.  these distribution fields vary widely, however, so
you should check with your local sysadmin to find out what is likely
to be supported in your area.

The Dangers of Overgeneralization:

To amplify a warning from the distribution section of this article:
Be wary of making foolish assumptions about all cars, tires, etc.  What is
true for a 1973 Buick with a 455cid engine may be quite utterly wrong for a
1976 Honda with a 1200cc engine.  Headlight laws in Sweden are decidedly
different from those in Idaho.

The Need for Adequate Specification:

When you ask a question, please give a reasonable amount of information;
e.g., if you have a question about your Honda, please specify year,
model, engine size, etc.  Otherwise, most answers to your question may be
quite useless.


Concerning Lemons:

At one time or another, every auto manufacturer has manufactured a lemon or
two; even Honda admits to this.  Please don't waste everyone's time by
announcing to the world that your `brand x' automobile is terrible, so all
`brand x' automobiles are terrible, so no one should ever buy a car from
the `brand x' company.  Such articles are worse than useless, because they
cause substantial wasted bandwidth while carrying little or no useful
information.


Concerning Flames:

As much as we might wish it, a flame-free newsgroup is something that most
likely will never occur.  Here are some guidelines for flames and how
to deal with them (a list of flame-prone topics follows in the next section
of this posting):

If you post something truly obnoxious and inflammatory, don't imagine for a
minute that including the words `No Flames' will work.  It won't, and
you'll get exactly what you deserve.

If you're going to flame, you're more likely to get away with it if you can
cite a fact or maybe a well-known reference.  No one is likely to believe
bald, unsupported assertions.

Be careful about who you choose to insult.  Consider not insulting anyone.


Asking the Question:

It is a bad idea to post a question and end it with a phrase like `Please
send email, I don't read this group'.  It is a much better idea to
end the question with `Please send email, if there is sufficient interest
I'll summarize the results in a later posting.  I may miss posted responses
to this request'.

Answering the Question:

If someone wants to hop up their Yugo, don't tell them to get a Mustang.
Either be silent, or give them useful advice.  If someone wants advice on
defending a speeding ticket, don't tell them to obey the law next time --
it's offensive, presumes guilt which is not proven, and doesn't directly
address the original question.  In general, don't post in order to see
your words in print, and don't post in order to enjoy feeling smug and
self-righteous.


Stale and/or Inflammatory Topics:

Certain topics are considered stale by `old timers'; while discussion of
them is certainly ok, and new, factual information is welcome, ravings
about them are extremely tiresome, and may get the person who posts them
ignored altogether.  Some topics are naturally inflammatory; it is
difficult if not impossible to have meaningful discussion of them.  Some
of these topics include the following:

1)  the 55mph speed limit in the US: Pro and Con

2)  discussions about the morality and legality of the sale and usage of
    radar detectors.

3)  discussions over which radar detector is best.

4)  discussions over what is a sports car (this is one reason why
    rec.autos.sport is not a `sports car' group -- everyone would argue
    about what constitutes a `sports car'.)

5)  disputes over whether or not US Federal law protects the driver's
    right to own and operate a radar detector

6)  `Buy American' discussions

7)  `clever' bumper stickers and personalized license plates

8)  <insert nationality here> cars are terrible

9)  What kind of car did Maxwell Smart drive?
      [when I have a complete, accurate answer it will be added to the
          commonly-asked questions article which is also posted monthly.
          Until then, please don't waste bandwidth on this topic. -- rpw]



Please direct comments and suggestions about this article to:

     welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102764
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: Frequently Asked Consumer/Automotive Questions

Archive-name: rec-autos/part5

[this article is one of a pair of articles containing commonly
asked automotive questions; the other article contains questions
more geared to the automotive enthusiast, and so is not crossposted
to misc.consumers.  -- rpw]

   [changes as of 14 April 1993: revised brake fluid section, as
    non-silicone DOT-5 fluids are now apparently available -- rpw]

                 Commonly Asked Automotive Questions


Tire Questions:

Q:  What do the funny numbers on the sides of my tires mean?

A:  Typically, you will see something like 195/60HR14.  the 195 is the
    overall width of the tire in millimeters, the tread is usually
    narrower.  The 60 is the `aspect ratio'; it indicates the height of the
    sidewall of the tire relative to the overall width.  Our example tire
    has a sidewall height of 0.60 * 195 ~= 117 mm.  The 14 is the wheel
    diameter in inches; there are also some special tires called `TRX'
    tires which have three digit metric wheel diameter designations, like
    390, which is in millimeters.  The R means Radial, and the H is a speed
    rating indicating the highest speed at which the tire, when properly
    inflated and carrying an appropriate load, may safely operate.  Common
    speed ratings are S (112MPH), T (118MPH), H (130MPH), and V (up to
    150MPH.)

    Recent changes to the method for specifying tire sizes move the speed
    rating to a different part of the designation; you may therefore find
    designations like 195/60R14 85H; the 85 indicates the per-tire load
    associated with the speed rating -- exceeding this load in continuous
    operation at the rated speed is dangerous practice.  What follows is
    a table showing a number of `load indices' and corresponding maximum
    per-tire loads:

    Load Index       50   51   88   89   112   113   145   149   157
    Max Load (Kg)   190  195  560  580  1120  1150  2900  3250  4125

    Note that the usual mass vs. weight confusion occurs in this table.

    In some cases, the letters P or LT may be found in front of a tire
    size; the LT designation indicates Light Truck, and the P designation
    indicates Passenger car.  If no letter is given, then the application
    of the tire is Passenger car usage.  As far as I know, these letters
    only appear in the US market.  The LT designation is prinicipally of
    interest to owners of light trucks and other utility vehicles.  For
    the owner of a passenger vehicle, there is no meaningful difference
    between a tire with a P designation and one with no designation at
    all.

    If the aspect ratio is omitted, it is probably 80, but may be 78.

    Tires with an MS (mud/snow) designation may have their speed rating
    reduced by 20 km/h (about 12mph.)

    There is an additional set of ratings on tires for temperature,
    traction, and treadwear.  Temperature and Traction are graded
    A, B, and C (with A the best and C the worst); treadwear is
    a numeric rating.  These values are of limited value, as they
    are assigned somewhat arbitrarily by tire manufacturers and are
    thus not useful in comparing different brands of tires.

Q:  My car has tires with a funny size designation:  185/65HR390; can i put
    normal tires on the car?

A:  Your tires are called TRX tires; they were devised by Michelin.
    Because of a somewhat different bead design, they are incompatible
    with normal tires; Michelin used a different diameter wheel for them
    so that they could not be mounted on the wrong type wheel (and so that
    more conventional tires could not be mounted on TRX type wheels.)
    You will need to aquire different wheels to put a normal tire on your
    car; it is barely possible to fit normal tires on TRX wheels, and horribly
    dangerous to do so (the tires may simply peel off the rims in a corner,
    or possibly blow out at high speed.)  TRX type tires are becoming hard
    to find; in addition to Michelin, Avon makes suitable tires.  Goodyear
    has apparently discontinued their line of TRX tires.

Q:  Can I rotate radials from side to side, or rotate them only on one side
    of my car?

A:  Car and tire manufacturers have differing views on this subject; many
    say that swapping radials between the left and right hand sides of a
    car is now ok (this group includes Michelin and Goodyear); others
    (for example, Pirelli and Nokia) will void warranties if such swapping
    is done.  The best advice is to read your tire manual carefully before
    rotating your tires, and stick to the manufacturer's recommendations.

Q:  How many snow tires should I buy, and if I buy 2, which end of the
    car should I put them on?

A:  In short, 4, and both ends.  To explain, many drivers in areas that don't
    get excessive snow or who don't drive agressively (or at all) in snow
    conditions get away with only two snows on the drive wheels, but there
    are circumstances where this can be dangerous practice.  With a rear
    wheel drive car, you can choose between being able to start the car
    going (a function of the rear axle) or stopping and turning the car
    (a function of the front axle.)  In a front wheel drive car, you start,
    stop, and turn with the front end.  The primary risk of putting the
    snow tires on the front only is that if you have to put on the brakes
    while going downhill, you run a serious risk of going downhill backwards.

Radar Detectors and Speed Limits:

Q:  Why aren't there any comments on Radar Detectors and Speed Limits
    in this Q&A posting?

A:  Because questions about detectors and speed limits crossposted between
    misc.consumers and rec.autos.* always start long, tedious, and pointless
    flame wars.  If you want to talk about either of these topics, please
    subscribe to rec.autos or alt.flame and keep it there.

Safety Equipment:

Q:  Do airbags really work?

A:  Preliminary statistics suggest the following:  Airbags work much
    better than no belts; good 3 point belts alone work much better than
    Airbags alone, and AirBags + 3 point belts work slightly better than
    3 point belts alone.  The con to airbags is that some designs tend
    to burn the driver's hands when venting the byproducts of the
    explosion that occurs inside the bag, and that some designs (but
    not all) may knock the driver's hands from the wheel, making retention
    of control of the vehicle after the bag deflates more difficult.

Brake Questions:

Q:  Do I always need to get the rotors on my disk brakes turned?  Midas
    always wants to do this.

A:  No.  There are specific conditions that mandate turning or replacing
    rotors; some shops try and make a little extra money by replacing rotors
    more often than is strictly necessary.  if the rotors are not warped
    warped, and only lightly grooved, then there is no need to replace or
    to turn them.  Note also that some rotors (the rotors on many Hondas
    are a good example) are so narrow to begin with that it is not practical
    to turn them; they must be replaced when they become too thin, warped,
    or badly grooved.

Q:  They tell me I should downshift when braking to slow my car down.  Is
    this really a good idea?

A:  It used to be a very good idea, back in the days of mediocre, fade
    prone drum brakes.  In modern disc brake equipped cars, use of
    downshifting to slow the car is not really necessary, except in cases
    of long, steep downhill runs.  Otherwise, modern disc brakes are more
    than adequate to stop a passenger car in all circumstances, and they
    are much cheaper to repair than clutch linings.

    On the other hand, many standard driver's license tests in the USA
    still specify that the driver being tested downshift under braking; I
    suggest that before taking a US driver's test, you either 1) learn to
    do this smoothly (which takes some time and practice) or 2) borrow a
    car with an automatic to take the test.

Q:  How often should I replace my brake fluid?

A:  Probably more often than you do.  Traditional brake fluids tend to
    absorb water; this water can corrode internal parts of the brake
    system and also lower the boiling point of the fluid.  DOT-3 type
    are older fluids; DOT-4 and DOT-5 are newer specifications.  The
    principal differences are in wet and dry boiling points; the dry
    boiling point is important in fresh brake fluid, but the wet boiling
    point is important in older brake fluid.  DOT-3 fluids have the lowest
    wet and dry boiling point _requirements_; DOT-4 fluids have better
    boiling point requirements; and DOT-5 fluids have the best boiling
    point requirements (but DOT-5 fluids are not clearly superior; see
    the next Q&A for more details.)  While the requirements imply that
    DOT-4 fluids are better than DOT-3 fluids, there may be specific
    cases where a DOT-3 fluid is preferable, but these are mostly
    competition applications.  Otherwise, DOT-4 type fluids offer _much_
    improved brake pedal feel.  Replacement once a year is recommended for
    DOT-4 fluids, although agressive drivers may profit by changing out
    fluid more frequently, or at least bleeding a modest amount of fluid
    out of the brake calipers fairly regularly.

Q:  What about DOT-5 brake fluids?

A:  This breaks down in to two parts.  The DOT-5 specification looks
    excellent for performance, but the first DOT-5 fluids were Silicone
    based.  Silicone fluids are a tricky proposition.  Unlike DOT-3 and
    DOT-4 fluids, they do not absorb water at all.  While this may sound
    like a feature, the problem is that any water present pools up in
    such systems, interfering with braking performance and corroding any
    metals at the spot where the pooling is occuring.  The water will tend
    to migrate downwards in the braking system to the brake calipers, where
    most of the corrosion occurs.

    Because of this phenomenon, it is essential when converting to
    Silicone to empty the entire brake system and flush it throughly
    beforehand; some even recommend replacing all rubber parts in the
    brake system when converting to Silicone fluids.

    Two other issues that come up with silicone fluids:  1) they are
    difficult to pour cleanly (that is, without air bubbles), which
    interferes with getting a good brake pedal feel, and 2) while they
    generally have much higher boiling points than DOT-4 fluids, they
    do have high temperature failure modes which are indistinguishable
    in effect from boiling DOT-4 fluids.  SIlicone fluids may make sense
    in some street car applications, but they are certainly not
    recommended for high performance driving applications, and the
    economics are questionable for street use.

    I have recently become aware of new fluids that meet the DOT-5 standard
    that do not contain Silicones; these fluids appear to be reasonably
    compatible with the older DOT-3 and DOT-4 fluids, but I have little
    information at this time.

Q:  ABS is available on some of the cars I'm looking at, but it costs
    more.  Is it worth it?

A:  This does not have a cut and dried answer; therefore, this answer will
    be quite long in order to cover the pros and cons.  The short answer
    is that ABS costs more, both initially, and to maintain, will generally
    work better for the `average driver' (that is to say, a driver who does
    not have extensive experience in high performance driving techniques),
    and may require the `unlearning' of some obsolete braking techniques
    like pump braking which should be unlearned in any case.

    Now for the long answer.  ABS works by monitering the wheels of the
    car, looking for signs of locked brakes.  It may or may not be able
    be able to distinguish between the different wheels (there are several
    systems on the market.)  It cannot detect impending lockup (which is
    what you would really want in an ideal world), but only the existence
    of lockup.  The sensors used vary; some of the less well designed
    sensors are sensitive to tire size, and to brake pad material, and
    may cease to function properly if the owner deviates from original
    equipment or OE-equivalent components.

    When the sensors detect lockup, the ABS system responds by unlocking
    the brakes (either individually, or all at once, depending on the
    system.)  If the driver keeps their foot firmly planted, the ABS
    will end up cycling between the locked and unlocked states (if a
    sensor existed that could detect _impending lockup_, then we could
    sit right at that point, which is where maximum braking effect is
    achieved.)  This pulsing can often be felt in the brake pedal, as
    the system cycles.  The percentage of the time that the brakes are
    truly engaged is called the `duty cycle'; typically in an ABS system
    this is about 40%  On dry pavement, a trained driver can beat this
    duty cycle quite reliably using a technique called threshold braking;
    on wet pavement, braking is so chancy that ABS will outperform
    threshold braking nearly every time.  Unfortunately, on mud and on
    snow, often maximum braking effect can be acheived with the brakes
    locked; only Audi, of the manufacturers producing ABS-equipped cars,
    has seen fit to provide a disable switch for the ABS system for this
    eventuality.

    A particularly important feature of ABS is that it preserves
    steering control.  This is the case simply because, if you are
    braking near the limit and turn the wheel, the ABS will release
    the brakes if it sees steering-triggered lockup, and back off
    on the percentage of the time that the brakes are applied.
    Braking distances will lengthen accordingly.

    An important caution:  ABS cannot exceed the maximum theoretical
    braking force in any given situation; if you start sliding on
    glare ice, don't expect an ABS system to help you out very much.
    The coefficient of friction is not changed by the presence of an
    ABS system in your car.

    As far as maintenence goes, in addition to the potential
    restrictions I've listed above, you have to worry about the
    following:  1) parts costs are much higher; the OE master cylinder
    for my obscure european sedan lists for $185, but the OE master
    cylinder for the ABS-equipped version of the same car lists for
    over $1000.  Most manufacturers explicitly forbid use of DOT-5
    (silicone) brake fluids in ABS-equipped vehicles.  Because of
    the potential cost of replacement of corroded brake system
    components, regular (I suggest annual) replacement of brake fluid
    becomes very important.

Q:  What about this threshold braking business?

A:  [normally, I'd not put this in the consumers Q&A, but recent
    publicity about a number of accidents involving police drivers
    in ABS-equipped Chevy Caprices suggests that this section is
    needed here -- rpw]

    Threshold braking is a technique practiced by all serious high
    performance drivers; if made a habit, it replaces the `stab
    the pedal and lock 'em up' panic habit entirely, and is much
    to be prefered.  Basically, the premise is that tires generate
    maximum braking force when they have just started to slide, but
    just before the wheels lock up entirely.  Drivers who threshold
    brake learn to feel what this `threshold' feels like, and learn
    to search for it and hit it on the application of the brake
    pedal.  In many cars, you can feel that you are near the
    threshold when the pedal starts to firm up as you depress it.
    In any case, if you can't hear the tires whine just a bit, you're
    not very near the threshold.

    In a car with ABS, often there is a twinge in the pedal just
    before the system starts cycling; if the driver backs off on
    the pedal just a tad when the twinge is felt, then they are very
    close to the threshold and they'll probably achieve better
    stopping distances than if they just punched it and let the ABS
    take over.

    Recently, there has been a rash of publicity over a number of
    accidents, and one death, involving police cars equipped with
    ABS systems.  The police departments in question quickly blamed
    the new ABS systems, but according to Autoweek magazine, it now
    seems clear that the problem was a lack of training; none of the
    involved officers had any recent performance driving training.
    There is reason to believe that the drivers reacted to the pulsing
    brake pedal by `pump braking', an old and discredited technique
    of stabbing and releasing the brake pedal, the goal being to
    try and get brakes back with a failing hydraulic system.  If you
    think about it for a minute, you'll realize that pump braking must
    cut the effective operation of a working brake system by at least
    1/2, so if you cut the 40% duty cycle of an ABS system by that
    much, you are giving up most of your brakes for the wrong reason.
    Threshold braking has the advantage in that it is an effective
    and useful technique regardless of whether your car has ABS; if
    you do fear a failed hydraulic system, then one or two stabs at
    the pedal will be sufficient.    

Gas Questions:

Q:  Does High Octane gasoline help?

A:  Maybe, maybe not.  Some cars have knock sensors, and can adjust the
    engine timing or turbocharger boost to suit the gasoline being used.
    On most cars, however, you should use the cheapest gas that makes your
    car run well.  Check your owner's manual for details on what your car
    needs.

Q:  My car was made for leaded gasoline.  Will unleaded gas hurt it?

A:  It is possible that unleaded gas may *slightly* increase valve wear,
    although the Amoco Oil company argues otherwise.  The actual increase
    in valve wear will be almost unnoticeable, however, as modern leaded
    gasolines actually contain very little lead.  You should, however,
    check your owner's manual; many cars from the early 1970s do not
    actually require leaded gasoline.

Q:  Do fuel treatments help?  What kind should I use?

A:  Some do and some don't.  During the winter, it is a good idea to use
    dry gas; however, some may be harmful to fuel injection systems.
    Never use an additive containing Methanol (sometimes called Methyl
    Alcohol); such additives may damage fuel systems in cars with carbs
    and almost certainly will damage cars with fuel injection.

    Manufacturer's opinions vary on additives containing Ethanol (sometimes
    called Ethyl Alcohol); if your car has fuel injection, check the owner's
    manual on your car before  using these.  Most manufacturers consider
    10% Ethanol acceptable in gasoline.  Additives with Isopropyl Alcohol
    (Isopropanol), and Petroleum  Distillates are fine in fuel injected
    cars.

    An occasional bottle of fuel injector cleaner is helpful in cars with
    fuel injectors, although many premium gasolines contain detergents that
    do the same job.  Some off brands of fuel injector cleaners contain
    Ethanol or Methanol; always check the ingredients before putting anything
    in your gas tank.

    There are a small number of particularly good additives; these are
    noticeably more expensive that the run-of-the-mill ones, but work
    much, much better.  Among these are Chevron Techron, Redline SL-1,
    Wurth `Lubrimoly Ventil Sauber', and BG 44K.  A bottle of one of these,
    once every six months, is highly recommended.

Q:  What about detergent gasolines?

A:  The quality of detergent packages in gasolines varies somewhat; BMW
    has instituted a testing program, and gasoline brands which pass this
    test may advertise that fact.  Stickers indicating passage of the test
    are now beginning to appear on fuel pumps at gas stations.  If such
    gasolines are used, then fuel injector cleaners are probably optional.
    Beforewarned that while use of BMW approved gasolines will keep a clean
    engine clean, they may not clean a motor with bad valve deposits.

Lubrication Questions:

Q:  What do the numbers and letters in a motor oil designation mean?

A:  There are several different items encoded.  There is a two-letter
    code indicating the type of detergent package that the manufacturer	
    uses in the oil; this looks like SE,SF,CD or such.  The S codes are
    for gasoline engine applications; the C codes are for diesel engine
    applications.  The second letter is assigned in sequence as new levels
    of protection are developed; thus SF is considered better than SE,
    SE is considered better than SD, and so forth.

    The more noticeable designation is the oil weight.  This is either
    a single number (e.g., 30 weight) or a pair of numbers separated by
    the letter W (e.g., 10W30.)  The latter type is much more commonly
    used these days, and are the only type that most automobile
    manufacturers specify in operators manuals.  The first number in the
    designation (10W) is the apparent viscosity of the oil when it is cold;
    the W stands for `winter'.  The second number (30) is the viscosity
    of the oil when hot.  There is a trick here; the oil doesn't actually
    get thicker (turn from 10 weight to 30 weight) as it gets hotter.  What
    is actually happening is that when the oil is cold, it has the viscosity
    of a cold 10 weight oil.  as it gets hotter, it doesn't get thin as fast
    as a 10W oil would; by the time it is up to temperature, it has the
    viscosity of a hot 30 weight oil.

    Note that these numbers actually specify ranges of viscosities; not
    all 10W oils have exactly the same viscosity when cold, and not all
    30 weight oils have the same viscosity when hot.  Note also that the
    novel behaviour of multi-grade oils is caused by additives, and it has
    been reported that with the sole exception of Castrol GTX, 10W40 oils
    do not retain their multi-grade characteristics well over time.  10W30,
    15W40, and 20W50 oils work very well, though.

Q:  Are `quick lube' places any good?

A:  Some do adequate work, but there are quite a few incompetent ones out
    there.  Let the buyer beware, watch them while they work, make sure
    that they don't overtorque the oil drain plug, and keep your hand on
    your wallet at all times.

Q:  Are oil additives like Slick-50 or Tufoil any good?

A:  Slick-50 and Tufoil are PTFE-based additives.  Many of these have
    come onto the market recently; they are different from the moly-based
    additives that have been around since the early 50's.  PTFE is the
    chemical name for Teflon(TM), a trademark owned by DuPont. In general,
    auto manufacturers do not recommend use of these products.  Most USENET
    responses to questions on these additives are favorable (slight
    increase of MPG after application, smoother revving) but long term
    results (whether PTFE additives are effective after 5K miles) are
    debatable.  Some manufacturers (such as Saab) claim that either the
    product or the engine flush that preceeds application causes
    deterioration of the oil seals and eventual leakage.  Some BMW owners
    have reported death of valve seals shortly after the addition of
    Slick 50 to their cars.  This writer has been cautioned by a Slick-50
    Dealer (!) that Slick-50 should _not_ be used in Japanese motors, as
    it may clog the oil return passages in the engine.  Otherwise, there are
    no known reports of damage caused by PTFE additives.

    On the other hand, there are satified Slick 50 customers in the world.

Q:  Do synthetic oils really work?

A:  Yes, but.  More specifically, most auto manufactuers accept synthetics,
    but disagree with the extremely long oil change intervals claimed by
    oil manufacturers.  Auto manufacturers recommend that you continue to
    change oil at the intervals recommended in the owners manual for your
    car.  Even if you decide to try the longer intervals, at least change
    the oil filter at regular intervals, as synthetics get just as dirty
    as conventional oils.

    Synthetic gear lubricants for manual transmissions are another matter
    entirely; Amsoil, Redline, and AGIP are very highly regarded and very
    effective.  Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube gets mixed reviews, however.

Q:  Manufacturers are specifying longer and longer oil change intervals.
    How often should I change my oil?

A:  It depends on how you drive.  If your car always (or nearly always)
    gets warmed up, and you don't drive it very hard and keep the revs
    down, the manufacturer's recommendation is probably fine.  If, however,
    you drive it hard, drive it at high revs, or alternatively, if you
    only drive it to and from the supermarket so that it doesn't get up
    to temperature, then you may wish to change oil much more often,
    perhaps at 3000 mile intervals (given that most manufacturers are
    now specifying 7500 mile intervals.)  If you don't drive your car
    much at all (say 7500 miles a year), then you probably want to change
    oil every six months anyway.  If you are storing a car during the winter,
    then change oil before storing it and change oil when you bring it out
    of storage.

Misc. Questions:

Q:  My car has a timing belt.  I hear that bad things happen when they
    break.  What's the story?

A:  It depends on the internal design of the motor.  Early Ford Escorts,
    for example, will suffer severe valve damage if the belt breaks, but
    the newer cars will just require a tow and installation of a new belt.
    Some Honda motors will not be damaged, but others will be.

    If no replacement interval is specified for your car, then change the
    belt at least every 60,000 miles; some cars may require more frequent
    replacement.  Ask your dealer or independent mechanic.  Also, ask if
    there are any related repairs that should take place at the same time
    (for example, the same Ford Escorts that suffer valve damage also have
    a timing belt driven water pump, which has been known to seize,
    destroying the timing belt, and which then causes major valve damage
    as a side effect.  Replacing the timing belt while ignoring the water
    pump can be a costly mistake.)

Q:  Why would anyone be stupid enough to design a motor so that it
    self destructs when the timing belt breaks?

A:  For performance reasons.  Compromising piston design so that the
    valves and pistons will not collide requires that the compression
    ratio of the engine be reduced significantly; this is why you are
    more likely to avoid valve damage in economy cars than in performance
    oriented vehicles.

Q:  What causes Unintended Acceleration?

A:  The final report of the National Highway, Transportation, and Safety
    Administration concluded that unintended acceleration could not be
    caused by any mechanical failure of the vehicle in question and at the
    same time be consistent with the physical evidence.  The NHTSA report
    goes on to conclude that `pedal misapplication' by the vehicle operator
    is probably the cause.
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102765
From: chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


Unfortunately, I've got another story to add to this.  My girlfriend
and I were driving through west L.A., and got pelted by a rock just as
we were pulling away from a stoplight.  The scary thing was that the
rock was heavy enough to put a decent-sized dent in the door of my '72
Riviera which is pretty much solid "Detriot Iron."  Couple of inches
higher and it would have gone through the window.

Chris
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Chris Barrus  ---   chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu  ---  kallista@aol.com
   1972 Buick Riviera boattail, peace through superior automotive power!
           Sacred cows make the best hamburger - Abbie Hoffman
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102766
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: MILITECH

I saw an interesting product in NY Auto Show, and would like to 
hear your comments.

MILITECH(tm) is yet another oil additive. But the demonstration of this
product really impressive, if it didn't cheat.

The setup of the demo is fairly simple. A cone shaped rotor is
half submerged in a small oil sink, filled with motor oil. The rotor
is powered by an electronic motor. A metal pad is pressed against
the rotor using the torque wrench until the rotor stopped by friction. 
The torque that is needed to stop rotor is read from the torque wrench.

Before MILITECH was added, the rotor was stopped with about 60 lb-ft
of torque (You pick the brand of oil, no difference). Once MILITECH was 
added to the oil, the rotor could not be stopped even with 120+ lb-ft of
torque. 

Here is the good part: even after the salesman emptied the oil sink, 
you still could not stopped the rotor with the thin film remained  on it.

They say you need only add 2oz per quart of oil every 15k miles. A 16 oz
bottle is $25.

I still have my doubts. If this product is really so great, why it was
so little known? The salesman said it is widely used in military. I didn't
believe it.  The demo was so impressive, that I bought a bottle against
my common sense.

Has anyone heard of or actually used this product? Is it real?
If you are going to the auto show, please visit this stand on the 
second floor. See if can find out if the demo is a hoax or not.

Jason Chen


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102767
Subject: Re: Ford SHO engine parts!
From: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 


W >>will NOT do work on internal engine components of the SHO engine.  This
W >
W >Good thing, too.
W >
W >At about 25K miles my cam sensor went south.  2 different Ford
W >dealers tried 5 or 6 different "fixes", none of which worked.  Finally
W >I took it down the street to the local mechanic.  This guy reads the
W >code off the engine computer, says "Bad cam sensor", and fixes it in 
W >an hour...

A friend of mine had some sensors damaged by flood waters, Ford denys any
sensors are registering bad.  He and his father did the short a circut via
paper clip method (not sure of the exact technique), and read the codes off
the "service engine" light flashes generated from this.  Came up with the 
damaged sensors, went back to Ford, and TOLD them what was wrong.  They
fixed the car after that.  What a bunch of bozos.
                                 
----
The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us)   A PCBoard 14.5a system
Houston, Texas, USA   +1.713.466.1525          running uuPCB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102768
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: Automotive Mailing Lists

Archive-Name: rec-autos/part2

Automotive Mailing Lists (Electronic Mail, that is):

[last updated 3/17/93; new lotus, exotic cars list subscription info;
   added Portland, OR motorsports list, Corvair list, Triumph TR8 list -- rpw]

There are a number of electronic mailing lists on the network devoted to
various special automotive topics.

To the best of my knowledge, all the lists appearing here have open
membership policies.  It is my policy not to list `closed' mailing lists
here.

Most mailing lists provide separate addresses for administrative
queries and for general mail; where separate administrative
addresses exist, I have listed those below, as the general addresses
are not appropriate for inquirys and requests.

Audi
         (send requests to quattro-request@aries.east.sun.com)

Autocross/Solo
         (send requests to autox-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)

BMW
         (send requests to bmw-request@balltown.cma.com
          both regular and digest forms available)

British Cars
         (send requests to british-cars-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)

Buick Grand National/Regal/GNX
         (send requests to gnttype-request@srvsn2.monsanto.com)

Camaro/Firebird (GM F-body)
         (send requests to f-body-request@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM)

Corvair
         (send requests to bryan@pegasus.mitre.org)

Corvettes
   there are two lists; the first is more of a competition oriented
   list, and the second is more general in nature (or so i am told)

   Competition:
          (send requests to vettes-request@cimage.com)
   General:
          (send requests to vettes-request@compaq.com)

Datsun/Fairlady Roadsters
         (send requests to datsun-roadsters-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)

Dodge Stealth/Mitsubishi 3000GT
	(send requests to stealth-req%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu)

Eclipse/Talon/Laser
         (send requests to diginst!talon-request@radius.com)

Electric Vehicles
         (send requests to info-ev-request@ymir.claremont.edu)

Exotic-Cars
	 (send requests to exotic-cars-request@sol.asl.hitachi.com)

Fabrication (race cars)
	 (send requests to racefab-request@pms706.pms.ford.com)

International Harvester (discussion of Scouts, pickups, etc.)
	 (send requests to ihc-request@balltown.cma.com)

Italian Cars
	 (send requests to italian-cars-request@balltown.cma.com;
          both regular and digest forms available)

Hondas
         listserv@brownvm.brown.edu; use standard listserv subscription
         procedure: the mail message body to listserv should be
         "sub HONDA-L your-real-name" with no subject line in the header

Hot rods
         (send requests to hotrod-request@dixie.com)

Land Rovers
	 (send requests to land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com)

Lotus
	 (send requests to lotus-cars-request@netcom.com)

Mazdas
         (send requests to mazda-list-request@ms.uky.edu)

Miata
         listserv@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu; use standard listserv subscription
         procedure: the mail message body to listserv should be
         "sub miata your-real-name" with no subject line in the header

Merkurs
         (send requests to merkur-request@pcad.UUCP)

Mopar
         (mostly high performance Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth products.
          send requests to mopar@casbah.acns.nwu.edu)

MR2
         (send requests to mr2-interest-request@validgh.com)

Mustangs
   There are two lists, the first is for Mustangs through 1973,
   the second for Mustangs from 1980 on.  nobody cares about
   the Mustang II, so don't ask.

   classic:
         (send requests to classic-mustangs-request@hpfctjc.fc.hp.com)
   modern:
	 (send requests to mustangs-request@cup.hp.com)

Offroad & 4X4
         (send requests to offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu)

Porsches
	 (send requests to porschephiles-request@tta.com)

Portland, Oregon Motorsports Activities
         (send requests to pdxracer-request@reed.edu)

Rally
         (send requests to rally-request@stratus.com)

RX7
	 (send requests to jjn@cblpf.ATT.COM)

Saabs
         (send requests to saab@network.mhs.compuserve.com)

Saturn
         (send requests to saturn-request@oar.net)

School (high performance driving schools)
         (send requests to school-request@balltown.cma.com)

Sentra SE-R, G20, N2000
         (send requests to se-r-request@pencom.com)

Supras
         (send requests to supras-request@vicor.com)

Toyota
	 (send requests to toyota-request@quack.sac.ca.us)

Triumph TR7/V8, TR8
         (send requests to jtc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)

Volvos
	 (requests to swedishbricks-request@me.rochester.edu)

Wheel-to-Wheel Racing
         (forum for race drivers, workers, crew, and wannabes;
          send requests to wheeltowheel-request@abingdon.sun.com)

Z-Cars (Nissan/Datsun)
         (send requests to z-car-request@dixie.com)
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102769
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: the Rec.Autos Archive Server 

Archive-name: rec-autos/part3

The Automotive Articles Archive Server:

the automotive archive server is in the process of being rehosted,
and is presently not available.
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102770
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: Frequently Asked Questions

Archive-name: rec-autos/part4

[this article is one of a pair of articles containing commonly
asked automotive questions; the other article contains questions
of general consumer interest, and is broken out to facilitate
crossposting to misc.consumers -- rpw]

[last change: 8 February 1993; CT now permits radar detector usage,
    new tire-traction q&a -- rpw]

                Commonly Asked Questions

Radar Questions:

Q:  Where are radar detectors illegal?

A:  In the US, currently Virgina and the District of Columbia prohibit
    all usage of radar detectors.  New York prohibits their use in
    large trucks.  In Canada, they are illegal in Manitoba, Ontario,
    Quebec, Newfoundland and PEI (Prince Edward Island).  They
    are apparently are illegal through most, if not all, of Europe.
    Legislation which would make them illegal is pending in many other
    jurisdictions; chances of such legislation passing varies a great deal.

Q:  Where are Radar Detector Detectors used?  Do they really work?

A:  Usage is spreading rapidly; initially they were used only in Canada,
    but now they are appearing in New York and Virginia.  It is unsafe
    to assume that they are not in use in Connecticut and D.C.
    They work by detecting a certain frequency radiated by many currently
    available super Het radar detectors; some brands of detector radiate
    more strongly than others, and are thus more likely to be spotted.
    New radar detectors are becoming available which may not be detected
    by the current generation of detector detectors.  Note that a
    detector may only be spotted by one of these devices if it is turned
    on.

Q:  What is VASCAR?  Is it some kind of Radar?

A:  VASCAR is nothing more than a fancy stopwatch and time-speed-distance
    computer.  It depends on the operator pressing buttons as the target
    vehicle passes landmarks.  No radar signals are emitted by a VASCAR
    system.

Q:  What is Ka band radar?  Where is it used?  Should a radar detector be
    able to handle it? 

A:  Ka band has recently been made available by the FCC for use in the US
    in so-called photo-radar installations.  In these installations, a
    low-powered beam is aimed across the road at a 45 degree angle to the
    direction of traffic, and a picture is taken of vehicles which the
    radar unit determines to have been in violation of the speed limit.
    Tickets are mailed to the owner of the vehicle.  Because of the low
    power and the 45 degree angle, many people believe that a radar
    detector cannot give reasonable warning of a Ka band radar unit,
    although some manufacturers of radar detectors have added such
    capability anyway.  The number of locales where photo-radar is in use
    is limited, and some question the legality of such units.  Best advice:
    learn what photo radar units look like, and keep track of where they
    are used (or else, don't speed.)

Q:  Do radar jammers work?  Are they legal?

A:  Quick answer:  No, and Not in the USA.
    Detailed answer:  Cheap radar jammers do not work well at all.
    Jammers that work are expensive and usually the property of the
    military.  Jammers are a major violation of the regulations of the
    Federal Communications Commission of the USA.

Driving technique and Vehicle Dynamics Questions:

Q:  What are understeer and oversteer?

A:  Understeer and oversteer are terms describing the behaviour of a
    car while cornering near the `limit' (limit of adhesion, that is.)
    Most drivers do not normally drive hard enough for these terms to
    be descriptive of the situations they encounter.  Simply put, they
    tell whether the car wants to go straight in a corner (steer `less',
    or `understeer') or it wants to turn more in a corner (`oversteer'.)
    Understeer is commonly designed into most production cars so that
    untrained drivers, inadvertantly traveling too fast, won't get into
    trouble.  Understeer may also be induced by using too much throttle
    in a corner.  Oversteer is designed into some more performance
    oriented cars; it may be induced by lifting on the throttle (Trailing
    throttle oversteer, or TTO).  In extreme cases, lifting on the throttle
    may induce so much oversteer that the car reacts by fishtailing or
    spinning.

    Some technical details:  in a corner at speed, the tires on the car
    will develop what are called `slip angles'; the slip angle is the
    angular difference between the direction that the car is traveling
    and the direction that the steering wheel is directing the car to
    travel.  In understeer, the front wheels have a greater slip angle
    than the rear wheels.  In oversteer, the rear wheels have a greater
    slip angle than the front wheels.

Q: What is a rev-matched downshift?

A: When downshifting, the engine must be rotating faster in the lower gear
   than it was in the higher gear.  However, during a downshift, normally
   you declutch and lift your foot from the throttle, so the revs drop
   rather than increase.  In rev-matched downshift, you blip the throttle
   before re-engaging the clutch so that the engine will already be up to
   the new speed.  This results in a much smoother and faster downshift.

Q: What does heel-and-toe mean?

A: Heel-and-toe is a technique used to do a rev-matched downshift while
   braking.  This is normally challenging, because you need the right foot
   for both the brake and throttle.  It is called heel-and-toe because you
   use one end of the foot on the brake, and the other on the throttle to
   match revs for the downshift.  In many modern cars this is a misnomer;
   often you must use the ball of the foot on the brake and the right side
   on the throttle.

   Note that some race car drivers will skip the clutch, and just use the
   left foot on the brake and the right foot on the throttle, accomplishing
   the same thing.

Q: What is double-clutch downshifting?

A: While your right foot is doing the above, your left foot can do one of
   three things:  nothing, declutch once, or declutch twice.  The reason for
   declutching twice is to match the speeds of the two shafts in the
   transmission to the speed of the engine.  This is usually coupled with
   rev-matching, so that while the engine is in neutral and the clutch
   engaged, the throttle is blipped and both shafts of the transmission
   speed up.

   The procedure is as follows:
   (0) declutch
   (1) move gearshift lever to neutral
   (2) engage clutch
   (3) match revs
   (4) declutch
   (5) move gearshift lever to next lower gear
   (6) engage clutch

   This sounds like a lot of work, but with practice it becomes natural.
   The problem that double-clutching solves is normally the function of the
   synchronizers within the gearbox.  In transmissions without synchros or
   with very worn synchros, double-clutching makes it much easier to shift.
   Basically, if you double-clutch well, you are not using the synchros at
   all.  This is generally unnecessary on street cars with synchros in good
   condition.

Q: What do the numbers for acceleration from 0-60, 1/4 mile, skidpad, and
   slalom times in the Auto Magazines really mean?  May they be compared?

A: In short, 1) not as much as the magazines want you to believe, and
   2) almost never.

   In more detail:  the acceleration numbers (0-60mph and 1/4 mile times
   in the US) may be vaguely compared as long as they all come from the
   same source.  Testing procedures vary so much from magazine to magazine
   that comparing a Road & Track number to a Car & Driver number is quite
   pointless.  Keep in mind, too, that the same variation applies from
   driver to driver on the street; the driver is a major (often *the*
   major) part of the equation.

   Skidpads vary, and even if they didn't, skidpad figures are really
   only tests of the stickiness of the stock tires; they change radically
   when tire compounds change.  DO NOT make any assumptions about the
   comparative handling of, say, two sports sedans based on skidpad numbers.
   This is not to suggest that skidpads are without value, however. Skidpads
   are an excellent educational tool at driving schools.  They are simply
   of limited value in the comparison of anything except tires.

   Slalom times are slightly more useful; they test some small parts of the
   automobile's transient response.  However, they are also heavily influenced
   by the stock rubber on the car, and they do not test many corners of the
   car's envelope.  They DO NOT tell you all you need to know before making
   a buying decision.  For example, they don't tell you what the rear end
   of the car will do on a road which suddenly goes off-camber.  When a car
   has an adjustable suspension, these tests are usually done in the `sport'
   setting, which may be quite unsuitable for daily driving.  The list of
   caveats could go on for page after page.

Q: My buddy claims that wide tires don't make any difference, according
   to his freshman physics textbook, and that you can't ever accelerate
   or corner at more than 1.0G.  Does he know what he's talking about?

A: 1) in short:  he hasn't got a clue.

   2) in more detail: the equations for friction used in freshman physics
   textbooks presume that the surfaces are smooth,  dry and non-deformable,
   none of which properly apply to tire traction except in the case of a
   stone cold tire on dry pavement which is far below its proper operating
   temperature.

   Pavement is _never_ smooth; it is always irregular to a greater or lesser
   extent.  Tires, which are not really dry and solid (as rubber is a
   substance which in its natural form is liquid, and which has only been
   coerced into a semblance of solidity by chemical magic), deform to match
   the surface of the pavement which a vehicle is traveling over.  In a tire
   at operating temperature, grip is actually generated by shear stresses
   inside the deformed rubber, and not by anything even remotely resembling
   friction in the freshman physics sense of the term.  The colder a tire
   is relative to its operating temperature, the closer its behaviour will
   be to the traditional concept of friction; if much hotter than the its
   proper operating temperature, the more likely the possibility of some
   part of the tire actually ``reverting'' to liquid, which is mostly like
   to happen deep in the tread, causing characteristic blisters and chunking.
   (This latter, though, is almost completely unlikely to happen in normal
   street driving, so unless you're a competition driver or do a lot of
   high speed track driving, don't worry about it.)

   Because tire traction is completely out of the domain of simple friction,
   it does not obey the freshman physics equation at all; thus dragsters
   accelerate at more than 1.0G and race cars corner and brake at more than
   1.0G.  Because simple friction does not apply, it is actually possible
   for different sized contact patches to generate differing amounts of
   grip.  An actual analysis of tire behavior would require techniques
   such as Finite Element Analysis, due to the complexity of the mechanism.

Misc. Questions:

Q:  What does <name or acronym> stand for?

A:  Here is a list of some of the names which are commonly asked
    about; be careful in soliciting the meanings of other names
    as misinformation abounds on the net.  In particular, NEVER
    ask in rec.humor if you want a useful result.

    Saab:   Svenska Aeroplan A. B.,
              or The Swedish Airplane Corporation

    Alfa:   Societa Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili,
              or The Lombardy Automobile Manufacturing Company

    Fiat:   Fabbrica Italiana di Automobili Torino,
              or The Italian Automobile Manufacturers of Turin

    BMW:    Bayerische Motoren Werke,
              or Bavarian Motor Works

    MG:     Morris Garage


Q:  Does VW own Porsche?

A:  No.  Porsche is a publicly held company, controlled by the Porsche and
    Piech families.  Porsche has extensive business dealings with VW/Audi,
    which causes some confusion.  Since currently Porsche is in some
    financial difficulty, there is a possibility that Mercedes or VW may
    be interested in purchasing the company in the near future, but this
    is only speculation at this time.
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102771
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: Automotive Mailing Lists: how to set up your own

Archive-Name: rec-autos/part6

[New article as of 4 February 1993 -- rpw]


Many people want to set up mailing lists for their favorite
automotive topics; rather fewer know how to do it.  This article
will provide the essential information for doing so on standard
Unix systems.  A shell script and examples of alias file setups
are included which presently run on a Sparc 2 here at balltown.cma.com
for a number of mailing lists.  Note that if you do set up an automotive
mailing list, please let me know of the -request address so that I can
list it in the montly rec.autos posting.  Also inform the keeper of the
Usenet list-of-lists (check news.answers for this monthly posting.)

First of all, to get anywhere, you need to either 1) be a sysadmin,
or 2) have some measure of assistance from your sysadmin.  It is also
important that you have reasonably good network connectivity; if it seems
like you get everything several days after anyone else, or that you
have trouble getting email through, then your network connectivity is
probably not good enough.

Listserv:

There is a handy automated mailing list package named listserv, which
is available from several ftp servers on the network.  Details of
the installation and operation of listserv are beyond the scope of this
article, but anyone who is considering running a large mailing list should
probably  look at listserv carefully.

The Alias file:

On a typical unix system; there is a file named /usr/lib/aliases on
whichever file server is your mail host; it contains lines such as:

foo:   bar, baz, bletch


which means that any email sent the name `foo' on that host is
redistributed to users bar, baz, and bletch.  thus, the simplest
possible email list is 

my-favorite-car:  member1, member2, member3, my-address
my-favorite-car-request: my-address

this has a couple of problems; the most noticeable one being that
you have to be superuser to edit the alias file.  however, you can
do the following, with the connivance of your sysadmin:

my-favorite-car: :include:/home/mydir/misc/autos/my-favorite-car-list
my-favorite-car-request: my-address

Where the file specified is a list of comma and newline separated
addresses.  This file can be in the list admin's home directory,
owned by the list admin.

Bounced Mail:

this still has a problem; bounced mail usually gets distributed to all the
members of the list, which is generally considered somewhat irritating.
Therefore, the way that the driving school mailing list is set up
is instructive (Thanks to harpal chohan of the bmw list for this setup,
by the way.  I'm not sure where he got it from.)


school-request:   welty
school-rebroadcast:  :include:/home/newwelty/misc/autos/school/list
school: "|/usr/local/adm/bin/explscript school"
owner-school: school-request
owner-school-out: school-request


here's what is going on here:

the owner- and -request addresses are intended as traps for bounced mail
coming from the network.  the -request address also serves as the point
of contact for administrative duties.

school is what people send mail to; instead of pointing at addresses,
it points at a shell script which rewrites headers before resending
the email.  school-broadcast (of which nobody except me knows the name;
the name has been changed here to protect my own sanity) points at the
actual list members.

the shell script i use is as follows:

-----------------
#!/bin/sh
cd /tmp
sed -e '/^Reply-To:/d' -e '/^Sender:/d' -e '/^From /d' | \
        (echo Reply-To: ${1}@balltown.cma.com; \
         echo Errors-To: ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com; \
         echo Sender: ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com; \
         cat -) | \
        /usr/lib/sendmail -om -f ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com \
                -F "The ${1} Mailing List" ${1}-rebroadcast
exit 0
-------------------

note that this script does not know the name of the list; the name
is passed in from outside, so that the script may be used for multiple
lists (i run several out of this site.)
the script excises Reply-To:, Sender:, and From lines from the incoming
message, substitutes for Sender: and Reply-To:, and adds Errors-to:
99.9% of all email bounce messages end up being sent to the -request
or owner- addresses if this header rewrite is done.

For digested lists, there is some digestification software around.
Hopefully I'll be able to provide more information in a future version
of this posting.

richard welty (welty@balltown.cma.com)
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102772
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <1327@qa1.WichitaKS.NCR.COM> jhart@qa1.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Jim Hart) writes:
>In article <1993Mar29.161044.1@uncavx.unca.edu> bwillard@uncavx.unca.edu
>writes:
>>My TOP 10 list of dumbest automotive concepts ever
>>
>>10. 1984 Dodge Colt Vista - tachometer only avail. with automatic trans.
>>9. Back-up lights on Corvette - they're on the sides of the car!
>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Sure would be interested to know what year(s) this was!
>I don't seem to recall ANY car with back-up lights on the sides, much
>less any Corvette.  I suppose I could be mis-interpreting what you are
>trying to say here.....

Just a quick comment. Backup lights mounted on the side
would actually be *extremely* useful for people backing out of
parking stalls...

Regards, Charles
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102773
From: madman@austin.ibm.com (Steve Heracleous)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


This is a two-sided problem. Unfortunately our culture has been deteriorating over time.
The "breeding" of these low-life's is getting worse; our justice system is at best
extremely weak to handle these problems. That is why low-abiding citizens should have
the power to protect themselves and their property using deadly force if necessary 
anywhere a threat is imminent.

My Camaro (my pride and joy) got stolen right out of my driveway a few years back.
The persons that did that were eventually caught (lucky for me!) but not before
having trashed the car.

On another occasion, on my way from Texas to Florida, I had stopped in a small motel
for the night in a small town somewhere in Florida. About 5 youths were disturbing my
car, setting off the alarm and challenging me to come out. When I and another tenant
walked out with a 357 Magnum and a 45 automatic respectively, they vanished. 
Needless to say, I immediately packed-up and left.

Watch out for car-jacking and staged accidents. They can be deadly!

Steve Heracleous

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102774
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes:
>What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
>can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
>20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??

You make it sound like this behavior is new.  It isn't.  A lot of
pedestrian bridges have fencing that curls up over the sidewalk to
make this kind of think a lot harder to do.

I don't understand the mentality myself, but then again I couldn't
figure out MOVE! (I'm glad they bombed 'em) or the Waco Wackos either.

(Newsgroup list trimmed significantly)

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102775
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.170720.8538@colorado.edu> drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (
Drew Eckhardt) writes:
>
>Most cars have drain petcocks in the radiators, and I've never
>seen nor heard of a vandal opening one.  I imagine that there
>would be an even lower risk with an oil plug because you have
>to crawl furthur under the car to open it.
>
>Car vandals are usually real traditional in their methods, and do things
>that don't get them dirty, like keying your car, dumping sand, sugar
>or mothballs in the gas tank, TPing it, etc.

USUALLY....go enough places and you'll see stuff happen you didn't think did.


Steve

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102776
From: tulsi@ws19.b30.ingr.com (Neeraj Tulsian)
Subject: Re: Mazda RX7 parts - JC Whitney

	Their number is 1-800-541-4716
	they are based in Chicago, IL in case
	you need to call dir assistance.

	Their prices are more down to earth than
	ANY other source for car innards/outers.

	They will send you a free catalog. 

	Neeraj

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102777
From: mart@csri.toronto.edu (Mart Molle)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:

>>>My TOP 10 list of dumbest automotive concepts ever
>>>
>>>9. Back-up lights on Corvette - they're on the sides of the car!
>>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Sure would be interested to know what year(s) this was!
>>I don't seem to recall ANY car with back-up lights on the sides, much
>>less any Corvette.  I suppose I could be mis-interpreting what you are
>>trying to say here.....

>Just a quick comment. Backup lights mounted on the side
>would actually be *extremely* useful for people backing out of
>parking stalls...

While I can't think of any Corvettes with side mounted backup lights,
I know that Saab started using them about 15 years ago.  My 1975 Saab 99
didn't have them, but a friend's 1978 Saab 99 certainly did.  In addition
to the confentional tail-light mounted backup lights, they had another
set integrated into the front turn signal assembly.  For those of you who
don't remember, Saabs of that vintage had an enormous multicoloured plastic
growth, about the size of a _National Geographic_ magazine, sticking out
of the front fender, which incorporated amber "parking lights", amber side
marker lights/reflectors, white "cornering lamps" (like American luxury
cars) aimed towards the side of the road when you have your turn indicators
on, and white "backup lights" aimed towards the back of the car when you
have selected reverse gear.  The glossy brochure showed how these front
mounted backup lights were useful for illuminating hazards (pot holes, kid's
toys, etc) that would be run over by the front of the car if you had the
wheels turned while backing up.

Mart L. Molle
Computer Systems Research Institute
University of Toronto
Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
(416)978-4928

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102778
From: ernie@.cray.com (Ernest Smith)
Subject: RE Aftermarket A/C units


>In article <1qcaueINNmt8@axon.cs.unc.edu> Andrew Brandt writes:
>|> I looked into getting a/c installed on my 1987 Honda CRX Si.
>|> The unit is $875 plus shipping, installation is like 5 1/2 hours on
>|> top of that.  This is a hunk of change.
>|> 
>|> Does anyone know *any* place that does aftermarket a/c installation
>|> (not with a Honda a/c unit, but some third party unit).
>|> 
>|> I cannot seem to find anyone who can put a third party a/c unit in a
>|> Honda.  I am in No Carolina, so I would prefer some place nearby, but
>|> any references would be handy.
>|>
>|> Thx, Andy (brandt@cs.unc.edu)
>
Les Bartel's comments:
>>>Sorry I can't help you with your question, but I do have a comment to
>make concerning aftermarket A/C units.  I have a Frost-King or Frost-Temp
>(forget which) aftermarket unit on my Cavalier, and am quite unhappy with
>it.  The fan is noisy, and doesn't put out much air.  I will never have
>an aftermarket A/C installed in any of my vehicles again.  I just can't
>trust the quality and performance after this experience.
>>
> - les
>
>-- 
>Les Bartel			I'm going to live forever

Let me add my .02 in. I had a A/C installed by the Ford garage and it did not
work as well as the A/C that was installed by the factory in pickups 
identical to mine. I have talked to other people that have had the same
result. Don't know if this is just a probable with Ford or what??

	Ernie Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102779
From: ernie@.cray.com (Ernest Smith)
Subject: Re Aftermarket A/C units


>In article <1qcaueINNmt8@axon.cs.unc.edu> Andrew Brandt writes:
>|> I looked into getting a/c installed on my 1987 Honda CRX Si.
>|> The unit is $875 plus shipping, installation is like 5 1/2 hours on
>|> top of that.  This is a hunk of change.
>|> 
>|> Does anyone know *any* place that does aftermarket a/c installation
>|> (not with a Honda a/c unit, but some third party unit).
>|> 
>|> I cannot seem to find anyone who can put a third party a/c unit in a
>|> Honda.  I am in No Carolina, so I would prefer some place nearby, but
>|> any references would be handy.
>|>
>|> Thx, Andy (brandt@cs.unc.edu)
>
Les Bartel's comments:
>>>Sorry I can't help you with your question, but I do have a comment to
>make concerning aftermarket A/C units.  I have a Frost-King or Frost-Temp
>(forget which) aftermarket unit on my Cavalier, and am quite unhappy with
>it.  The fan is noisy, and doesn't put out much air.  I will never have
>an aftermarket A/C installed in any of my vehicles again.  I just can't
>trust the quality and performance after this experience.
>>
> - les
>
>-- 
>Les Bartel			I'm going to live forever

Let me add my .02 in. I had a A/C installed by the Ford garage and it did not
work as well as the A/C that was installed by the factory in pickups 
identical to mine. I have talked to other people that have had the same
result. Don't know if this is just a problem with Ford or what??

	Ernie Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102780
From: don@bcars194.bnr.ca (Don Skanes)
Subject: Jeep Laredo experiences


 I have been looking at buying a 1989 Jeep Laredo and was wondering
if anyone had any bad or good experiences with this model. Is it
all that much different than the other YJs? 

 It looks, feels and sounds like a nice vehicle even thought the
price is rather steep for an '89 (12K Canadian).

-- 
don@bnr.ca

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102781
From: wade@nb.rockwell.com (Wade Guthrie)
Subject: Re: Curious about the Porsche I drove

ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers) writes:


>In a previous article, wade@nb.rockwell.com (Wade Guthrie) says:

>>takaharu@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Taka Mizutani) writes:

>>>In article <1993Apr13.160535.20123@progress.com>, damelio@progress.COM
>>>(Stephen D'Amelio) wrote:

I wrote:
>This is consistent with the pre-'74 911.  The engine before that was a 2.2
>litre (or less, depending on how early you go), and got its power at high
>revs (starting slowly at about 3K, and jumping up at around 5K) with a 
>narrow band.  The '74 was a 3 litre and had a lot of smog equipment.  If
>you got much power at all, it'd be better distributed through the rev
>range.

>Bzzzt.  Wrong answer.  It really depends on whether you are talking model
>year or date of manufacture.  For instance, mine was a '67, but was
>manufactured in August of '66.  Prior to 1970 all 911s were 2.o liter.  For
>the '70 and '71 model years they were 2.2 liter.  for the 1972 and 1973
>model years they were 2.4 liter _EXCEPT_ for the '73 Carerra RS which was a
>2.7 liter.  The '74 and later years were easily identified by the new 5 mph
>bumpers.  Most models in the '74 year were 2.7 lietsr _EXCEPT_ the Carerra
>RSR which was a 3.0 liter (US Carerras from '74 were 2.7 liter models).  In
>'78 they went to 3.0 liter and there was only a single model, the SC (think
>of it as a cross between the S and the Carerra models).  note all the above
>are based on _MODEL_ year, not date of manufacture.  

I stand corrected.  This is all from memory, mind you  :-)

>As for the rev happy behavior, the earlier cars are even more prone to
>this.  The 2.4 liter cars used low compression engines, and suffered a bit
>in this regard.  The early 3.0 liter and 2.7 liter engines also got a good
>dose of smog gear as well.  The 2.0 and 2.2 liter engines were far and away
>the quickest revvers of the lot. 

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.  No, REALLY!
-- 
Wade Guthrie                     | Trying to program on MS-DOS is like trying
wade@nb.rockwell.com             | to shave with a chain-saw.
Me be not speaking for the Rock. |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102782
From: tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU> ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes:
>This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
>Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
>throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
>cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
>a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
>in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
>made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
>doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.
>
>What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
>can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
>20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
>
>Erik velapold

Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason
is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is
"No Big Deal". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort 
children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised
when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the
message they hear is "Life is Cheap"!

AT

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102783
From: zdem0a@hgo7.hou.amoco.com (Donna Martz)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:

>> >So, I block the would-be passers. Not only for my own good , 
>>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >but theirs as well even though they are often too stupid to realize it.
>>  !!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!!
>> >As a rule of philosophy, I don't feel particularly sorry when somebody gets 
>> >offed by his own stupidity, but It does worry me when some idiot is in a 
>> >position to cash in my chips, too.
>> >                                                           H.H. Mayo
>> 
>> zdem0a@hgo7.hou.amoco.com (Donna Martz) writes:
>> Well, Aren't we just Mr. Altruism himself!!   Just what the world needs,
>> another frustrated self appointed traffic cop.

hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:
>Well, if you want to stick the nose of your car up the ass of a 50 foot semi, 
>I suppose it's your neck, however, I'm not going to let you kill me in the 
>bargain.  If you get frustrated by somebody delaying your inevitable death 
>due to less that wise driving practices, then TOUGH!!!

Well, I never wrote that I would act as you described.  I stated that I 
would not block a would-be passer.  I would not block a would-be passer
"for their own good" or for any reason other than I was prevented from 
doing so due to the traffic circumstance.  I fail to see how deterring a
passer under these circumstance would IN ANY WAY decrease YOUR chances
of being involved in an accident, fatal or otherwise.  In fact, I could
imagine how blocking a would-be passer would actually INCREASE your 
chances of being "offed" or involved in an accident, especially if 
this "passer" is riding your bumper.  Intentionally blocking a person
riding your bumper is certainly NOT a "wise driving practice", it 
only causes the jam to become more congested. 
 
I don't mess with trucks and I actually watch the road ahead AND the 
road behind!   If I perceive that I am rapidly closing on a "pack" 
of vehicles, I try to avoid getting caught up in situation such as you 
decribe.  Usually either traffic is just building and I have to deal 
with this fact of life, or I wait to a slow passer to complete their 
pass and make way for the pack to clear.  If someone decides then to 
pull up on my bumper, I signal my intention to move to the right, and 
do so at the first opportunity (& hope they will open the jam).  I 
feel this is not only courteous driving, but ALOT safer than the 
actions you advocate!!!  There are actually many courteous drivers 
on the road who do not intentionally impede others.  

If someone in front of me seems to be oblivious to the fact that they 
are blocking traffic I use my blinker or flash my lights, or, if all 
else fails, will briefly speed up /slow down so they MIGHT get the 
message that I am a faster vehicle trying to pass.  I feel it is never 
safe to ride anyone's bumper.  IF someone is intentionally blocking 
traffic, because they feel that it is civil duty or philosophic duty 
or for some unfathomable reason, I feel they deserve, at the very least,
derision.       (Sorry this is soooooooo long.)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102784
From: hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen)
Subject: BMW's new plant in Greer, SC


Is anyone reading this message involved with the new BMW plant?
(does BMW corporate even have a net-connection?)

desperately seeking info,
Jeff Hagen
hagenjd@ac.wfu.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102785
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1qk7t5$dg@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes:
>>What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
>>can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
>>20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
>
>You make it sound like this behavior is new.  It isn't.  A lot of
>pedestrian bridges have fencing that curls up over the sidewalk to
>make this kind of think a lot harder to do.
>
>I don't understand the mentality myself, but then again I couldn't
>figure out MOVE! (I'm glad they bombed 'em) or the Waco Wackos either.
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I know that this isn't the group for it, but since you brought it up,
does anyone have any idea why they haven't "bombed" the Waco cult?    

Just curious.


>
>(Newsgroup list trimmed significantly)
>
>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.com

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102786
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:

>In article <1327@qa1.WichitaKS.NCR.COM> jhart@qa1.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Jim Hart) writes:
>>In article <1993Mar29.161044.1@uncavx.unca.edu> bwillard@uncavx.unca.edu
>>writes:
>>>My TOP 10 list of dumbest automotive concepts ever
>>>
>>>10. 1984 Dodge Colt Vista - tachometer only avail. with automatic trans.
>>>9. Back-up lights on Corvette - they're on the sides of the car!
>>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Sure would be interested to know what year(s) this was!
>>I don't seem to recall ANY car with back-up lights on the sides, much
>>less any Corvette.  I suppose I could be mis-interpreting what you are
>>trying to say here.....

>Just a quick comment. Backup lights mounted on the side
>would actually be *extremely* useful for people backing out of
>parking stalls...

>Regards, Charles
>-- 
>Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
>separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
>struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
>gourd. --Unknown net.person

	Wasn't the original intent of the reverse lights for the driver, so he
could see where he was backing up???  Although reverse lights on the sides
are useful for telling whether cars are backing up out perpendicular to the
path of the car, I don't think warnings were their original intents, since they
are colored white.



-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102787
From: nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625)
Subject: Re: Lois Chevrolet?


A little bit off of the subject but here goes
yes he is one in the same (i.e. Chevrolet Motor Div)
also his brother Gaston raced at Indy and was the winner in 1920.
I have also seen the name Arthur Chevrolet in the early teens (1911 and on)
I assume he is related

Keith Nuetzman, nuet_ke@pts.mot.com
Motorola Inc.
Paging and Wireless Data Group
Boynton Beach, Fl

see ya at Indy 500 and "400" ...yes!!!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102788
From: bw662@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill Cray)
Subject: Re: Thinking About Buying Intrepid - Good or Bad Idea?


I bought an Intrepid about two months ago and am very happy with
it.  Lots of room inside and even with the smaller engine it has
enough power for me.  The only problem I found was a small
selection on the dealer's lots. They are hot sellers around here.
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102789
From: gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

Ah, yes, the big chunks down in the sump. The solution is simple. Sort of
like the advice my Aunt always gave -- never scratch your ear with anything
except your elbow.

If you have pieces of ring, con rods, valve heads or stems, just reach into
the sump through the hole in the block that was associated with the creation
of those large bits and pieces. Anything you can't remove with one hand 
through the hole in the block may safely be left in place.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102790
From: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu (Terry Quinn)
Subject: Waxing a new car



I have just taken delivery on a new GM car (Firebird) with a 
clearcoat finish.  I assume that it is probably urethane since the 
industry has moved in that direction in paints.
 
In years past, it used to be recommended that owners wait up to 
60 days before you wax a car, for the paint to "cure."  The dealer 
shop manager said this also, but I'm not sure that he wasn't just 
basing it on past tradition.  Does anyone know if this is still a 
recommended practice, or is it better to go ahead and wax right 
away (non-abrasive new car wax) with the newer finishes? 

--
                                    Terry Quinn
                                     Germantown Hills, IL
                                      tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu
from Compuserve . . .                  >INTERNET: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102791
From: hkon@athena.mit.edu (Henry Kon)
Subject: 83 tercel sunroof leaks - arrggh

IS there a simple way tooput these sunroofs out of their misery - 
do leaks tend to be from old gaskets ?  
or from inadequate mechanical seals - 
or all of the above ??

is there any way to halt the rain ?

thanks
hk
--
Henry Bruno Kon
office: 617-253-2781 (with machine)
home:   617-625-3972 (with machine)


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102792
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?


I don't know if some lemons are out there, but from personal experience
My brother's has been trouble free.  Not one single repair, only 
regular maintainance.  The only work he had done on it was a result
of his stupidity... he stopped suddenly in the middle of a left turn 
on a busy intersection, and was rear-ended.  He has a 1989 Plymouth
Sundance.  I would recomend it, but I would also like to say that if
you can wait about six months, ChryCo is coming out with a new car
called the Neon, that is built in the same way as the LH's where.
Good luck with your desiscion.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102793
From: sborders@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott Borders)
Subject: Clear coat woes . . .

Is clear coat really worth it?  Yes, on the showroom floor, the cars
have this deep, lustrous shine that just can't be found on paint jobs
that aren't clear coated.  On the other hand, it seems that every clear
coated car that I've seen on the road (in a parking lot, etc.) has
fine scratches throughout the paint job.  As does, alas, my 1992 Laser.

Several weeks ago I had my car professionally polished and waxed.
When I picked it up, it had that same showroom shine that I remember
from a year ago when I bought it.  Several days ago I took my car
to the dealership for some work.  As an added bonus, they washed my
car.  Unfortunately, whoever washed it either didn't get the roof
(which is black, the rest of the car is red) completely clean before
he dried it, or he used a dirty towel.  Now my showroom shine is a
haze of fine scratches that aren't really visible until the light
hits the roof at a particular angle.

I am, to put it mildy, somewhat peeved about this.  Do I have any 
chance of getting the dealership to do something about this?
My guess is 'no'.  Is there any product on the market that provides
a solution to this problem?  Or am I faced with the prospect of
having the car professionally polished again to hide the scratches?
Information, commiseration, and sympathy all greatly appreciated . . .

Scott "the-dealership-will-never-wash-my-car-again" Borders
sborders@nyx.cs.du.edu
borders_scott@tandem.com


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102794
From: nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan)
Subject: Re: Chryslers Compact LH Sedans?

rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen) writes:

>aas7@po.CWRU.Edu  writes:
>> 
>> In a previous article, v064mcqs@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (ADAM M. GANDLER) says:
>> 
>> >
>> >I heard Chrysler is planning to design or is in the process
>> >of designing a compact sedan line based on the LH platform.
>> >If these were as thought out as the full sized sedans and
>> >priced competitively, I see no reason why they could not give
>> >the imports and even the Saturns a serious challenge.
>> 
>> OH GOODY!!! We now get to see SATURNS sold through CRYCO dealers.....
>> fab!
>Why is it this A-hole insist on remarks like this.  I really am growing
>tired of this s*** DREW. 

Do you have a "kill" file for your newsreader?  I put the name "Spencer"
in my kill file and that gives me about 10-15 less articles PER DAY that
I have to sift through.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102795
From: ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha)
Subject: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.

I have $30,000 as my budget.  I'm looking for a sports or GT car.

What do you think would be the best buy?  (I'm looking for specific models)

Thanks,
Danny
-- 

===============================================================================
=    "Hey! You programmers out there!     |    Danny Phornprapha              =
=     Please consider this:               |    ip02@lehigh.edu                =
=                                         |                                   =
=     Bugs are another endangered earth   |    LUCC Student Konsultant        =
=     Species needing your protection.    |    Work: (215) 758-4141           =

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102796
From: jong@halcyon.com (Barking Weasel)
Subject: Re: RFI:Art of clutchless shifting

schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov writes:

>I'm wondering if anybody else out there is a clutchless shifter? I've been
>doing it my self over 200,000 miles, on my current toyota truck I've got
>over 150k. I've heard people talk about how doing this can damage a
>transmission. My experiences suggest otherwise. What techniques do you use?

	Yeah.  I don't use the clutch all the time either.  I've done it
with Fords, BMW, Datsun, and Chevy and it works fine.  I can't think of
any reason that it would damage the tranny.  Essentially you are just
doing what the synchros do anyhow - match the engine speed with the
tranny speed and slip it into gear.


>On some old pieces of junk I drove, the transmission was so
>worn that pumping the clutch was the only way to shift, except clutchless.
>To date I've driven rabbits, datsuns, comets, fords & a chevy. Some where
>harder than others to shift but generally the higher the milage the smoother
>quicker & easier they where to shift.

>My technique is to ease back off the throttle and at the same time gently
>wrist back on the shift lever. If for some reason I miss the shift window,
>I lightly press the accelerator & try agian. I've found that clutchless
>shifting is eaiser/quicker at high rpms (4000-7000). I also skip gears some
>times using 1-3-5 ,1-2-4-5. 

	Sounds about right.  I usually slip it out during throttle-down
and then blip the throttle and wait until it feels like things are right
(usually about a second) and then slip it into gear...

>krispy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon "You obviously don't know who you're dealing with" Gross
jong@halcyon.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102797
From: roger@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Roger Mullane)
Subject: Re: 86 Acura Integra 5-speed

I have a 1986 Acura Integra 5 speed with 95,000 miles on it. It is positively
the worst car I have ever owned. I had an 83 Prelude that had 160k miles on
it when I sold it, and it was still going strong .  This is with religious
attention to maintenance such as oil changes etc. Both cars were driven in
exactly the same manner..

  1. It has gone through two clutches (which are underrated.)
  2. 3 sets of tires (really eats tires in the front even with careful align)
  3. All struts started leaking about 25-30k miles
  4. Windshield wiper motor burned up (service note on this one)
  5. Seek stop working on radio about 20k miles
  6. Two timing belts.
  7. Constant error signals from computer.

  8. And finally. A rod bearing went out on the No. 1 piston seriously damaging
     the crankshaft, contaminating the engine etc. When the overhaul was done
     last week it required new crankshaft, one new cam shaft (has two) because
     the camshaft shattered when they tried to mill it. The camshaft took 4
     weeks to get because it is on national back order. 

     Everything on the engine is unique to the 1986 year. They went to a new
     design in 87. Parts are very expensive.

No way would I ever buy another Acura. It is highly overrated. .

      

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102798
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: Most bang for $13k

In article <1993Apr17.014638.56998@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (R
OBERT WILLIAM FUSI) writes:
>In article <23056.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>, david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (D
a
>vid Bonds) writes:
>>In rec.autos, CPKJP@vm.cc.latech.edu (Kevin Parker) writes:
>> I'd like to get some feedback on a car with most bang for the buck in the
>> $13000 to 16,000 price range. I'm looking for a car with enough civility to b
e
>> driven every day, or even on long trips, but when I hit the gas, I want to fe
e
>l
>>
>>Take a look at a '91 Taurus SHO - they can be found for ~13k, and are the
>>ultimate in 4 door sports cars.  Performance similar to a Mustang, but
>>quite civil and comfortable...  Try to get a late model 91 for the better
>>shifter.
>>
>>
>
>>----
>>The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us)   A PCBoard 14.5a system
>>Houston, Texas, USA   +1.713.466.1525          running uuPCB
>
>>Well, you could always go with a 5.0 Mustang LX with a pleasant V8, but the
>diamond star cars (Talon/Eclipse/Laser) put out 190 hp in the turbo models,
>and 195 hp in the AWD turbo models,  These cars also have handling to match
>the muscle, and are civil in regular driving conditions, rather than having a
>harsh, stiff ride....The AWD Turbo is clearly the better choice of the two
>(because of all that torque steer on the front drive model), but you may have
>to go with a leftover or "slightly" used model for that price range....tough
>decision...
>
>        Rob Fusi
>        rwf2@lehigh.edu
>
>--
> Car and Driver did a test with the same basic idea and chose the Ford Probe
GT (5sp of course)
>
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102799
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <3090@shaman.wv.tek.com>, andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) wr
ites:
>[]
>
>       "Can I ask.  Have any of you been at the speed of 130?  It's a
>       rush."
>
>So is cocaine.  What's your point?
>
>  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
>
 Yeah, and the cop couldn't catch me.....
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102800
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <3090@shaman.wv.tek.com>, andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) wr
ites:
>[]
>
>       "Can I ask.  Have any of you been at the speed of 130?  It's a
>       rush."
>
>So is cocaine.  What's your point?
>
>  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
>Don't know about the cocaine, but....
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102801
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: New Alarm Proposal

In article <1993Apr14.190652.19777@slcs.slb.com>, dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.co
m (Dan Day) writes:
>In article <1qeee6$o7s@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) w
rites:
>>
>>An audible alarm is just an annoyance -- to either a professional or
>>amateur.  NOBODY LISTENS TO AUDIBLE ALARMS ANYMORE.  The thieves know
>
>This is why I think there ought to be a heavy fine on false alarms.
>I'm really honked off about the fact that due to all the
>cars with cruddy alarms crying "wolf", no one will pay any attention
>to my car if its alarm ever goes off for real.
>
> Depends on your area, in the city, nobody thinks about it...but at a mall or
something near the suburbs, people do at least glance over.  Remember, an
alarm is only a deterent, not a prevention.  If a thief sees two cars he
"likes", one has an alarm and the other doesn't, he's obviously going to skip
the alarmed car and avoid the hassle.  There is a way around every alarm, but
at least you've got SOMETHING on your side.....
                                                            Rob Fusi
                                                            rwf2@lehigh.edu
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102802
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.

Good luck.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102803
Subject: curious about you
From: Maria Alice Ruth <MAO111@psuvm.psu.edu>

Please satisfy my curiosity. I'm interested in finding out who is using the
e-mail system. Please do not flood me with mail after April 21st. Thanks!
Maria Alice Ruth  mao111@psuvm.bitnet or @psuvm.psu.edu

1. Are you male or female?

2. How long have you been using the e-mail system?

3. How do you have access (at work, at school, etc)?

4. Who taught you how to use the system? Is that person male or female?

5. Have you helped anyone to learn the system? Was that person(s) male or
   female?

6. Which net did you find my questions on?

7. Which other nets are you interested in?

8. How often do you read/post to the system?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102804
From: edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards)
Subject: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

In response to a post about SUV's, I got several unsolicited recommendations to
check out the Land Cruiser, despite its astronomical price.
The Toyota dealer told me it's a "cult car".
If a car is good enough to create a passionate and loyal following, there
must be something really extraordinary about it.
So, all you Land Crusher Cultists - here is your chance to convert me.

-- 
Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102805
From: cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan)
Subject: NX2000 vs. Sentra SE-R


I'm plannig to trade my Sentra SE-R in with a NX2000.  My car has 11,500
miles on it and is a '92 model.  The NX2000 the dealer is selling is a '91
model with 23,000miles on it.  It has a T-Bar Roof, a/c, and an airbag,
which my Sentra does not have.  They are asking for $1500.  Is that a fair
deal?  The only thing I noticed about the NX2000 is that the engine did not
seem to have as much torque as my Sentra which has the same identical
engine.  I presume that the last lady owner did not really push the engine
to it's limits occassionaly while I did that on mine, thuis the NX2000's
engine is a little "tight."  So, if I buy the NX2000 and "excercise" it
well, should that slight power problem go away?  Any advice on this will be
much appreciated.  Thanks.  Please reply via e-mail if possible.
-- 
A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

"The mind is the forerunner of all states."

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102806
From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr15.173851.25846@convex.com>, tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes...
#In article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU> ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes:
#>This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
#>Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
#>throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
#>cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
#>a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
#>in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
#>made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
#>doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.
#>
#>What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
#>can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
#>20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??

   Yes. Nobody is watching them.  If they get caught, there is no punishment
 at all.  In the old days such behaviour would be rewarded with a whipping
 with a good-sized belt, and then taken into some hospital to see first hand
 what kind of damage such accidents cause.   Of course this doesn't happen
 any more.  That whipping would probably save the kid's life by teaching
 him some respect for others.  A person with that little respect would
 inevitably wind up dead early anyway.

   The problem is creeping gradualism.  If you put a frog into hot water,
 he just jumps out.  But if you put him into cold water and then ever-so-
 gradually heat it, the frog will cook.  This is what the entertainment
 industry and lack of religious, moral, and educational standards in our
 modern North American society have done to us over the years.  Now that
 we are about to be 'cooked', we may have woken up too late.

#>
#>Erik velapold
# 
#Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason
#is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is
#"No Big Deal". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort 
#children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised
#when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the
#message they hear is "Life is Cheap"!

  And the education system and the Religious Leaders aren't doing much 
 about it, either.  With both parents working in this society, where is
 the stabilizing influence at home?   Latchkey children are everywhere!
 And these latchkey kids can watch whatever rotten videos and listen to
 whatever violent hate-promoting "music" and videos they like because no
 one is home to stop it.

  This day and age, when there is about 100 times more things to learn
 than when I went to school, our answer to this increased knowledge is
 shorter school hours and more leisure time!  I say keep the kids in
 school longer, feed them good food and teach them something, and when
 they get home, have a parent there to interact and monitor them.  There
 is a very old and now forgotten proverb: a child left on his own will
 bring a parent to grief.  Daycare systems are not the answer.  This is
 just shifting the parents' own responsibilities off on someone else to
 whom it's not a life-long committment, but rather just a job.


# 
#AT

  Followups should go to alt.parents-teens


 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102807
From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <NEILSON.93Apr15135919@seoul.mpr.ca>, neilson@seoul.mpr.ca (Robert Neilson) writes...
#[sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]
# 
#> That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselves
#> and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is 
#> imminent.
#>
#> Steve Heracleous
# 
#You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
#go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
#job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
#me - those kids are mean.

  This last comment was obviously a bit cynical, but a true statement of
 the attitude of some drivers (there's your "autos" content), I would say.

  What law-abiding (not "low-abiding" as above (talk about Freudian slips!))
 citizens have the right and responsibility to do is try to PREVENT this
 type of behaviour in children.  A doctor may have to use "deadly force"
 against a part of a body (like amputating it) when an infection/disease
 has gone too far.  But his real desire would have been to *prevent* the
 disease in the first place or at least nip it in the bud.

   Followups should go to alt.parents-teens

 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102808
From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5JoIt.E31@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, neil@bcstec.ca.boeing.com
 (Neil Williams) writes...

# 
#As long as we're on the subject... Several years ago myself and two others
#were riding in the front of a Toyota pickup heading south on Interstate 5
#north of Seattle, WA. Someone threw a rock of an overpass and hit our
#windshield. Not by accident I'm sure, it was impossible to get up to the
#overpass quickly to see who did it. We figured it was kids, reported it and
#left.
#A couple of years ago it happend again and killed a guy at my company. He was
#in his mid-fourties and left behind a wife and children. Turned out there was
#a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old
#that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do?
#I don't think I'll over forget this story.
#Neil Williams, Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA.
#..
# 

  Neil, what did they do to the 14-year-old who they caught?  What did
 the man's insurance company do?  This could be significant and in any case
 very interesting.

  Followups to alt.parents-teens.


 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102809
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <C5o4nH.3su@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee) writes:
>W/r/t performance, converter lockup is purely irrelevant.  The lockup only
>occurs at light throttle settings and serves only to improve MPG.  Mind you,
>a converter clutch does a lovely job of improving MPG, but the additional
>mechanical advantage of the converter gives you more acceleration (vs. locked
>converter clutch) than its inherent losses take away.

the transmission in my car contradicts both your assertions..  i get much
stronger acceleration if i let the convertor lockup.. which i can induce
by briefly lifting off,  then quickly (but not too quickly to trigger
a kickdown) applying throttle.  above 3000 rpms, the convertor will never
unlock;  it would kickdown first.

who says there's no skill involved in driving an automatic?  i think
of it as the throttle and shifter combined into a single pedal.  with
my car i can pretty much influence its shifting patterns with my
right foot, while having both hands to steer.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102810
From: markm@latium. (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Bimmer vs Beamer

Although not in direct response to the referenced article, just to set the 
record straight, Beamers are BMW motorcycles. BMW cars are Bimmers. Please,
let's get our terms straight.

Actually, some purists would argue that the only true Bimmer is a round
tail light 2002 or 1600.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102811
From: kastle@wpi.WPI.EDU (Jacques W Brouillette)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

Could we plase cease this discussion.  I fail to see why people feel the need 
to expound upon this issue for days and days on end.  These areas are not meant for this type of discussion.  If you feel the need to do such things, please
take your thought elsewhere.  Thanks.
-- 
 : I want only two things from this world, a 58 Plymouth and a small  : 
 : OPEC nation with which to fuel it.  This would be a good and just  :
 : thing.  Car Smashers can just go home and sulk.                    :
 :        Jacques Brouillette ---  Manufacturing Engineering          :

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102812
From: CPKJP@vm.cc.latech.edu (Kevin Parker)
Subject: Insurance Rates on Performance Cars SUMMARY

     I recently posted an article asking what kind of rates single, male
drivers under 25 yrs old were paying on performance cars. Here's a summary of
the replies I received.
 
 
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I'm not under 25 anymore (but is 27 close enough).
 
1992 Dodge Stealth RT/Twin Turbo (300hp model).
No tickets, no accidents, own a house, have taken defensive driving 1,
airbag, abs, security alarm, single.
 
$1500/year  $500 decut. State Farm Insurance (this includes the additional $100
for the $1,000,000 umbrella policy over my car and house)  The base
policy is the standard $100,000 - $100,000 - $300,000 policy required in DE.
 
After 2nd defensive driving course it will be 5% less.
 
I bought the car in September 1992.  The company I was with (never had
and accident or ticket in 11 years) quoted me $2,500.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Steve Flynn
University of Delaware
======================================================================== 45
 
    Kevin:
 
    (Hope I remembered your name correctly)...
 
    You asked about insurance for performance cars.  Well, last year
    I was in a similar situation before I bought my car, and made the
    same inquiry as you.
 
    Age: 24 (then and now)
    Car: 1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    Driving Record: Clean
    State: Illinois
    Cost: $820/6 mos.
 
    I turn 25 in May and the insurance goes down to $520/6 mos.
    Also, I'm single and that incurs a higher rate with my company.
 
    I've got a couple other friends w/ AWDs and they pay more
    than I do (different ins. companies also), so maybe I'm just lucky.
 
    Hope the info helps.
 
    Dan
    [dans@jdc.gss.mot.com]
    Motorola Cellular Subscriber Group
 
======================================================================== 38
 USA
Cc:
 
I'm 23; live in Norman, Oklahoma; drive an '89 Thunderbird SC; have
never made a claim against my insurance (though I have been hit
several times by negligent drivers who couldn't see stop signs or
were fiddling with their radios); and I have had three moving violations
in the last 18 months (one for going 85 in a 55; one for "failure to
clear an intersection" (I still say the damn light was yellow); and
one for going 35 in a 25 (which didn't go on my record)). My rates
from State Farm (with a passive restraint deduction) on liability,
$500 deductible comprehensive, and $500 deductible collision are
roughly $1300/year. (I was paying just over $1100/year for a '92 Escort LX.)
 
				James
 
James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has
	and all he's ever gonna have."
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"
======================================================================== 61
 
I am beyond the "under 25" age group, but I have an experience a few
years ago that might be interesting to you.  I owned a 1985 Toyota Celica
GT.  I decided to buy myself a gift - a more exotic car.  Front runners
included the Toyota Supra Turbo and the Porsche 924 (1987 model years).
I narrowed it down to those two.  I liked the simplicity and handling
(and snob appeal, too) of driving a Porsche.  The Supra Turbo was less
money and had more features and performance - almost a personal luxury
car.  It had better acceleration and a higher top speed than the 924.
I was almost ready to give in to a buying impulse for the 924, but i
decided to stop by my insurance agent's office on the way.  I asked
about what would happen to my rate with either car.
 
"If you buy the Supra, your rate classification will be the same as
the Celica (the '85 Celica was considered a subcompact and for that
year was rated as one of the safest cars), with a slight increase because
the car will be 2 years newer.  Our lower-risk division will continue
to handle your account.
 
"If you buy the Porsche 924, we'll have to change you to the standard
[higher] rate company and your rate will double.  And if you go with
a 944, it's another story again - we'll cover the rest of this year,
but cancel you after that."
 
"But the Supra is much faster than the 924, and the 924 is actually
faster than the [standard] 944.  That doens't make sense."
 
 That's what the book says.  We don't insure Corvettes, either.  For
some reason, the underwriters consider Supras - and their drivers -
as very traditional and conservative."
 
I eventually went with the Supra for a number of reasons.  The Porsche
dealer had a nice salesman to get me interested, but a tough high-pressure
guy in the back room.  At equal monthly payments, it would have taken
a year longer to pay for the Porsche, plus its higher insurance.  I
concluded that the high insurance was related to probability of auto
theft.
 
   /|/| /||)|/  /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~   |   Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
  / | |/ ||\|\  \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_|  |      goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil
========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======
 
 
 
 
 
======================================================================== 32
 
I live in Idaho.  When I was <26 many years ago (10 years) I bought a Trans
Am (new).  Insurance was about $1300/year.  When I turned 26, it immediately
dropped to $460/year.  I had not had any accidents before or after, this was
strictly an age change.  That same rate stayed pretty much the same until I
sold the car 2 years ago.  My F-150 pickup is about $80/year less.
 
The real amazing thing is that when I woke up at age 25, I felt SO MUCH MORE
RESPONSIBLE than I was before...  :-)
 
Wes
 
======================================================================== 21
 
 
For your information:
California
Male, single, under 25 , No moving violation
Alfa Spider
     =======> $2000 / year
 
What a bargain!!!
======================================================================== 28
 
Let's see, I'm 24, single, male, clean driving record. I have a 92 VW COrrado
VR6. I live in San Jose, California. I pay ~1500$ a year through Allstate. A
good deal if you ask me.
 
I was thinking about getting a Talon, but I think the insurance is higher
for a "turbo" sports car vs a V6
 
-W
 
======================================================================== 27
 
1986 Honda CRX Si, clean record, in a small New Mexico town was around $800
per year, age 24.
 
Nearby city rates were 1.5X-2X higher than where I've got mine insured.
 
..robert
--
Robert Stack / Institute of Transportation Studies, Univ of California-Irvine
               stack@translab.its.uci.edu   '92 Mazda Protege LX
======================================================================== 37
1300 per year, 1992 Saturn SC, 21 Years old, State: New Mexico,
Insurance: State Farm.
 
 
======================================================================== 64
 
 
Here is my info:
 
Car             : '89 Toyota Celica ST
Insurance Co    : Farmer's Insurance
Yearly insurance: $2028
Age             : 24
Date of license : Oct 14, 1992
Residence       : Mountain View, California
No moving violations (for now atleast ;-)
 
Hope this helps. Please post a summary if possible.
 
Vijay
**********************************************************************
Vijay Anisetti
Email: anisetti@informix.com   Apt: (415)962-0320   Off: (415)926-6547
======================================================================== 38
Single, 24 years old, Eagle Talon Turbo AWD, $1200 (full-cover, reasonable
 liability)
No tickets, No violations, No accidents... (knock on wood...)
Mass,
 
	One thing that makes a HUGE difference in MASS is the town you live in.
I'm personally in one of the best towns within reasonable distance
of Boston.  If I moved to the absolute best it would go down to about
$1150, if I moved to the worst it would be $2000+..
 
	Also one accident and a couple of tickets, would probably add another $600...
 
 
	_RV
 
 
======================================================================== 43
I have a 1990 Mitsubishi eclipse turbo awd, am 23 years old and have no
tickets that went on my record.  I live in Illinois just outside of Chicago
and pay $1560 a year with full coverage at State Farm.  I did get a small
discount because of my alarm system($30 a year).  I only live 15 miles from
Chicago but if I actually lived in the city the price would be about $2000
a year.
======================================================================== 41
I'm over 25, but in case you're interested anyway, I'm insuring a 93 SHO
for $287/6 month.  Thats 100k personal+300k total+100k property with
250 deductible, glass and towing, State Farm.
 
======================================================================== 39
 
Unless you are under 20 or have been driving for less than 5
years, I think you are being seriously ripped off.  I don't have
one of the performance cars you listed, but if your record is
clean, then you should not be paying over $2K.
 
Did you try calling all the insurance dealers you could find?
Although rates are supposed to be standardized, I've found that
most places I initially call, give me some ridiculously high
quote and *finaly*, I hit one that is much lower.
 
Also, I have changed insurance companies when the rate went up at
renewal (no accidents, tickets, car gets older??) to maintain a low
rate.  You always have to be careful when it comes to insurance
companies 8^).
 
Good luck,
Serge

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102813
From: jsmith@cs.dal.ca (Jeff Smith)
Subject: Header for 89' Honda Civic Si

Hello,
	I am looking to slightly increase the performance of my 89 Honda
Civic Si.  I was wondering if anyone could suggest upgrades that were not
too drastic.  I thought that one of the easiest upgrades would be a new
header.  Does anyone know what kind of increase that the header would give
me?  I think I would check with Jackson Racing for the part.  Are there
any other comparines would make Honda parts.  

	Are there any other small changes that can be easily made and won't
screw up the car.  Things like new injectors?, new fuel injection chip etc?
I would welcome any suggestions of small changes that would make a
difference.

	I don't really want to change the cam etc because I have heard that it
would be much harder on the engine.

E-Mail relpies prefered please and I will post a summary of all the replies.
Thanks for any help you may have to offer!

--
Jeff Smith			jsmith@cs.dal.ca
Dalhousie University		Halifax, NS

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102814
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: Impala SS going into production!

qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu  writes:
> --From the latest issue of AutoWeek, the Chevy Impala SS will arrive in
> dealer showrooms in mid-1994.  Dealers have already been notified.  No word
> on the changes to be made for the production version.  My question to all of
> you is would you buy it?  And how much would you pay for it?
> 
> Aamir Qazi
> qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
> --Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Aamir Qazi
> qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


> --Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint

Alright GM!!!! Finally my wishes have come true, Moby Dick with a Corvette
engine.  DOn't you think they should maybe spend the money doing something
about the lousy build/quality/design of their bigger selling cars?  This is
another example of why GM is in so much trouble.  If you're going to stick
the LT-1 or ZR-1 engine in a car, at least make it a nice looking one.
Sheesh
.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102815
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: Chrysler New Yorker LHS (was Re: Chryslers Compact LH Sedans?)


Warren Brown, the Washington Post's auto writer was the first journalist
to get his hands on the New Yorker.  If you'd like his impressions of it
his review appeared in Friday's paper, in the "Weekend" section.
He is not your traditional auto writer...
Enjoy.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102816
From: murthy@watson.ibm.com (Sesh Murthy)
Subject: Re: Bimmer vs Beamer

In article <1993Apr18.173934.14572@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, markm@latium. (Mark Monninger) writes:
|> Although not in direct response to the referenced article, just to set the 
|> record straight, Beamers are BMW motorcycles. BMW cars are Bimmers. Please,
                    ^^^^^^^
Huh!  I though Beamers were IBM employees :-)

|> let's get our terms straight.
|> 
|> Actually, some purists would argue that the only true Bimmer is a round
|> tail light 2002 or 1600.
|> 
|> Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102817
From: brian@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Brian Donnell)
Subject: FOR SALE: '91 Celica Repair Manuals

Two-volume soft-cover repair manuals
for all models of '91 Toyota Celicas.
(Probably good for '92 models as well.)
Like new condition.
These are the manuals used by the
Toyota dealers' mechanics - they normally
cost over $80 new.

$50 OBO

Brian Donnell
brian@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102818
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: MR2 parts

Does anyone know of a dead first generation MR2? I need body parts, steering
rack, and a few minor pieces. I was about to buy a parts car, but the owner 
backed out after 3 month of pulling my leg. ARRRRgh.
Mike.S

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102819
From: hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen)
Subject: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions


The biggest hurdle for automatics (IMHO) is not shifting speed
per se, but rather the transmission's reaction speed when you
try to force it to shift manually.  

This was the biggest fault with the Subaru ECVT -- it took SOOOOOO
LONNNNNNNNGGGGG for the tranny to find the right ratio.

The sales propaganda says the Saturn automatic is effectively an
electronically-shifted manual.  Might this mean that Saturn has
conquered the problem?  (I dunno, only driven Saturn 5-speeds)

INPUT, PLEASE!

Another question:  Any plans for a manual-trans Chrysler LH?
Does anyone else out there fall asleep at night dreaming of this combo?



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102820
From: mad9a@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Michael A. Davis)
Subject: Slick 50, any good?


     Chances are that this has been discussed to death already, and
if so could someone who has kept the discussion mail me or direct me 
to an archive site. Basically,
I am just wondering if Slick 50 really does all it says that it does.
And also, is there any data to support the claim.  Thanks for any info.

Mike Davis
mad9a@fermi.clas.virginia.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102821
From: hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen)
Subject: Re: Lois Chevrolet?



The Chevrolet brothers were respected racers & test drivers for the
Buick Co. when Durant was there.

When the directors kicked Durant out of GM in 1910 he took Chevrolet and
others with him.  As mentioned before, they founded the successful
Chevrolet company.

A little-known fact is that the Chevrolet Co. actually took over GM!
That was how Durant got back in charge of GM-- legally his new company
Chevrolet Co. did the buying, and GM was a division of Chevrolet!

After 1920 and into the Sloan era, GM shuffled things so that the GM
board was superior, but there was always a degree of autonomy given
the Chevy division, presumably because of the initial structure.
(If you look at the organization chart for GM in Sloan's book, Chevy
division reports directly to 14th floor, not through the "passenger
car division" which covers Buick, Olds, Cadillac, and Oakland/Pontiac)

-Jeff Hagen    (minor deity of worthless auto-trivia)
 hagenjd@ac.wfu.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102822
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <0w2Z2B1w164w@cellar.org> blu@cellar.org (Dan Reed) writes:
>Fact is, I just leave the valet key in my glovebox for whenever 
>I need it...  

That will make it easy for a car thief.
Saves him/her the trouble of popping your ignition!

-- 
Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102823
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <C5HqJ0.57@unix.amherst.edu> bhtulin@unix.amherst.edu (Barak H. Tulin) writes:
>I just started reading this thread today, so forgive me if it has already been
>mentioned.  But...what was the deal with Renault's putting the horn on the
>left-hand turn-signal stalk?  It was a button on the end, where the washer
>button would be on the wiper/washer stalk.  Could the Frenchies not figure
>out the wiring through the steering wheel, or what?

Ford tried that also, back in 1983.  My 1983 Ranger Pickup had the horn at
the end of the turn-signal stalk, instead of in the center of the wheel where
God intended it to be. :-)  I drove two different cars then (the other an
1984 Camry), and never did get used to pushing the turn-signal stalk to
blow the horn.  The only time I got it right was when I was getting the
annual state-required safety inspection!
Not one of Ford's better ideas.

-- 
Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102824
From: tommy@boole.att.com (Tommy Reingold)
Subject: Re: Where can I get a New York taxi?

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:

$ [...]
$ 	Actually, you want a Checker Special if you can find one.

$ 	Good luck.  I'm sorry I let mine go...

I grew up in New York City so I rode in many Checker cabs.  The jump
seats were fun as a kid.  Although the cars were roomy -- a good trait
for a taxi -- they had a design flaw that I don't understand they never
fixed: the rear passengers tended to fall out of their seats when the
driver braked.  I wouldn't want to take a long ride in the back seat of
one of these vehicles.  Why did you like yours?  I never drove one, so
I have to ask.
-- 
Tommy Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102825
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: seating ergonomics - headroom

In article <930411.153152.amiller@almaden.ibm.com> amiller@almaden.ibm.com (Alex Miller) writes:
>My physical therapist has suggested that a good driving position
>for me is to have my back nearly vertical and for my knees not
>to be much higher than my hips.
> [...]
>Are there any cars that are particularly good in respect to
>having both headroom and a well designed seat height?

Take a look at mini-vans.  I sat in a Dodge Caravan, which had a high seat
and plenty of headroom.

-- 
Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102826
From: tommy@boole.att.com (Tommy Reingold)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions

hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen) writes:


$ The biggest hurdle for automatics (IMHO) is not shifting speed
$ per se, but rather the transmission's reaction speed when you
$ try to force it to shift manually.  
$ [...]

I rented an Oldsmobile Achieva (is that a yuppie name or what?) and a
Nissan Stanza.  They both had automatics.  I'm a manual transmission
bigot but I have to admit that the transmissions on these cars were
better shifters than I am.  And yes, they responded very quickly to
kickdown requests.  The Nissan had a tachometer so I was able to figure
out which gear I was in.  (The Olds may have also, but I don't
remember.)  I believe it shifted all the way down to second at about 50
mph when my foot told it, "No I really want to accelerate quickly."

I would still prefer a manual, but I won't delude myself into thinking
that I can out-accelerate a modern automatic.  And I'm very smooth at
shifting but certainly not as good as an automatic.
-- 
Tommy Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102827
From: ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha)
Subject: 300ZX or SC300???

Hi everyone,

I'm getting a car in the near future.  I've narrow it down to 300ZX and SC300.
Which might be a better choice?

Thanks for your opnion,
Danny
-- 

===============================================================================
=    "Hey! You programmers out there!     |    Danny Phornprapha              =
=     Please consider this:               |    ip02@lehigh.edu                =
=                                         |                                   =
=     Bugs are another endangered earth   |    LUCC Student Konsultant        =
=     Species needing your protection.    |    Work: (215) 758-4141           =

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102828
From: 6500alh@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Archie Holmes)
Subject: Prizm's Radio Question


 I was lloking at the Geo Prizm Lsi today (very nice).  Anyway, I had a
questions that the salesperson couldn't answer.  How does the theft
deterrent on the Prizm's audio systems work?  Can't find the answer
in any of Geo's lterature.  Thanks in advance.

Archie Holmes

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102829
From: rts@nwu.edu (Ted Schreiber)
Subject: Opinions on recent Alfa Spiders

Anyone have any opinions on fairly recent model Alfa Spiders ( 86-> ) 

Reliablilty for what their class ( I'm not talking Alfa vs. Toyota corrola
which is more relaible ) 

As far as I can discern, in recent years, there are 3 levels with all
basically the same mechanical aspects.

Please email any responses 


Ted Schreiber
Mechanical Enginering 
Northwestern University
Tel: 708.491.5386 FAX 708.491.3915 Email: rts@nwu.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102830
From: zampicem@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mike Zampiceni)
Subject: Re: mazda - just does not feel right

The car might also need a front end alignment, particularly if you're
describing wandering.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102831
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <93106.161324LIBEMC@BYUVM.BITNET> <LIBEMC@BYUVM.BITNET> writes:
>Mark states in his post to know the dealer price and offer $200-$300
>above.  My husband and I are in the market to buy our first car
>together, and neither of us know how to go about it.  How do
>you find out the dealer price?  Are their books to look in?  Do
>you send away somewhere for it?

Several company publish periodicals (3 or 4 times a year) which list the
sticker prices and the dealer invoice prices of all the cars and their
options.  Edmund's is the name of one such price guide.  You can find
these price guides at most places which sell magazines.

-- 
Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102832
Subject: Traffic Rules at intersections
From: jsv@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Julian Visch)

I am presently doing a masters thesis to do with traffic intersections in 
New Zealand but a lot of the books I am researching from, are from America or
Australia and so I was wondering if anyone could please tell me what the road
rules are in either country with regard to intersections.

Thanks
Julian Visch
jsv@math.canterbury.ac.nz

                                          ________________________
                              ,---------+/       +----------+     \
                            /          ||        |          |      |
                          /            ||        +----------+      |
         _________------=--<I|---------+----------------------------,
       .----=============|=========---=|=======================-->> |
       |     ______      |             |              ______        |
      [|    / _--_ \     /             |             / _--_ \       ]
        \__|| -__- ||___/_____________/_____________|| -__- ||_____/
             \____/                                   \____/


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102833
From: Jay Lorenzana <U40348@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Eagle Talon TSi--LEMON?


Dear Netters:

I am looking to buy a used Eagle Talon '91 or '91 TSi AWD.
Question is that the '91 TSi AWD was mentioned in the
April Consumer Reports to a car to avoid!

In particular, the manual transmission, electrical system,
and brakes were below par (in both models).  A friend of mine
ownes a '90 TSi AWD and he has had 2 brake jobs (pads), one
stuck valve, and some clutch/transmission problem, something
about sticking/grinding into second gear.  This doesn't seem
too bad if one "beats" on his car.

I am willing to suffer reliability--for speed and looks.  Seems
you have to pay big buck if you want all three.  Anyway can
anyone please let me know how you like your Talon, and any
problems you may have had, and if the repairs are worth it.

Thanks for any responses!

-Jay

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102834
From: atom@netcom.com (Allen Tom)
Subject: Re: Dumb options list

In article <93Apr16.185044.18431@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>The idea here is to list pointless options. You know, stuff you
>get on a car that has no earthly use?
>
>
>1) Power windows

I like my power windows. I think they're worth it.

However, cruise control is a pretty dumb option. What's the point?
If you're on a long trip, you floor the gas and keep your eyes on
the rear-view mirror for cops, right?

Power seats are pretty dumb too, unless you're unlucky enough to have
to share your car. Otherwise, you'd just adjust it once and just leave
it like that.

-- 
+-------=Allen Tom=-------+ "You're not like the others... You like the same
| atom@soda.berkeley.edu  |  things I do... Wax paper... Boiled football
| atom@netcom.com         |  leather... Dog breath... WE'RE NOT HITCHHIKING
+-------------------------+  ANYMORE... WE'RE RIDING!" -- ren

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102835
From: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

If you hold off, there are a number of interesting convertibles coming
to market in the next few years.

The new LeBaron will be based on the Mitsubishi Galant, which should
be an improvement over the current model.

The new PL compact will have a convertible option (also a chrysler
product)

Kia, makers of the Ford Festiva is planning a larger convertible.
-- 
Steve Morris, M.A.    : Internet: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu
Addiction Studies Pgm : uucp    :{uw-beaver,uunet!gtenmc!dataio}!sumax!smorris
Seattle University    : Phone   : (206) 296-5350 (dept) or 296-5351 (direct)
Seattle, WA 98122_____:________________________________________________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102836
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions


an excellent automatic can be found in the subaru legacy.  it switches to
"sport" mode when the electronics figure it,  not when the driver sets
the switch.. which is the proper way to do it, IMO.  so what does "sport"
mode entail?  several things:

1) revving to red line (or to the rev limiter in the case of the legacy)

2) delayed upshifts.  (i.e. if you lift off briefly, it will remain in the
	low gear.  this is handy if you are charging through corners and
	would like to do without the distraction of upshifts when there's
	another curve approaching)

3) part throttle downshifts, based on the *speed* at which the pedal is
	depressed, rather than the *position* of the pedal.  modern
	electronics can measure this very easily and switch to sport mode.
	this is wonderful if you want to charge through a green light about
	to turn red.  my audi senses this very well and can downshift on as
	little as half throttle if my right foot is fast enough.

also, i think that a smart automatic can deliver better gas mileage
than a dumb driver with a stick, all else being equal.. remember that
the idea of a stick being more economical than an automatic makes a
big assumption that the driver is smart enough to know what gear to
use for each situation.. how many times have you ridden with an
inattentive driver cruising on the highway at 55/65 in 4th gear (of a
5 speed)?  

how many % of people who drive manuals *really* know what the best
gear to use is for every conceivable situation?  i'm sure there will
be some who know, but i suspect that a chip controlled automatic with
all possible scenario/ratio combinations stored in ROM is likely to do
better.  i can also say that all my previous assumptions were proved
wrong after i got a car with instantaneous mpg readout... high gear,
low revs and wide open throttle is more economical than low gear, high
revs and small throttle opening.  the explanation is quite simple if
one sits down to think about it, but not that obvious at first sight.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102837
From: dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff)
Subject: Re: Taurus/Sable rotor recall


We get about 20 Taurus/Sables for fleet cars at our site every year, then the
company sells them a year later to employees. The folks I know who drive/buy
them have no complaints. The cars seem to drive real nice too. 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102838
From: crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Christian Huebner)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In rec.autos you write:

>if ayrton senna can drive a racecar with fully automatic transmission,
>it can't be half bad..  :-)

This McLaren auto-transmission (I still think it's only half auto,
but You may be right) has NOTHING to do with Your GM, Chrysler, Volvo,
or whatever auto transmission. It's a normal manual transmission
gearbox with clutch and all, but there are servo motors, which do
the shifting. 

That means, there is no power loss in the drivetrain (if You take out 
minimal mechanical friction), and the sami-auto transmissions 
(Ferrari, Williams, McLaren(?),...) don't tell You, when to shift,
either. However, these transmissions share an important disadvantage
with Your stock auto-trannie: They are EXPENSIVE.

As long as these servo-shifted gearboxes aren't available on 
'normal' cars I'm gonna stick with my manual. I just can't see an
advantage to make up for two grand I lose in this deal and the
loss in mileage and power (except maybe in real heavy traffic). But
then I drive mostly on the autobahn and country roads anyway.

There's no point in making a religion out of this, I just wanted to
point out a few technical facts and MY OWN opinion, so there's
no need for a flame war.

>eliot

Have a safe ride

Chris


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102839
From: issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin)
Subject: Re: 300ZX or SC300???

ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) writes:

>Hi everyone,

>I'm getting a car in the near future.  I've narrow it down to 300ZX and SC300.
>Which might be a better choice?

>Thanks for your opnion,
>Danny
>-- 

I've been asking myself this same question for the past year, so, if/when
you find out, would you please share the magistic answer with me.. 

The way I see it right now, work twice as hard so you can have both.

cheers :)

Issa


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102840
From: zaphod@madnix.uucp (Ron Bean)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

jong@halcyon.com (Barking Weasel) writes:
 
>schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov writes:
 
>>My technique is to ease back off the throttle and at the same time gently
>>wrist back on the shift lever. If for some reason I miss the shift window,
>>I lightly press the accelerator & try agian. I've found that clutchless
>>shifting is eaiser/quicker at high rpms (4000-7000). I also skip gears some
>>times using 1-3-5 ,1-2-4-5.
>
>        Sounds about right.  I usually slip it out during throttle-down
>and then blip the throttle and wait until it feels like things are right
>(usually about a second) and then slip it into gear...
 
   So, how did you guys *learn* this? Is it something you were
born with, or did you make horrible grinding noises the first few
times? (how many times?)
 
   I would think you'd have to have a certain amount of "feel"
for it to begin with. Some people would never get it, and others
(like me) would never have the guts to try it, unless maybe you
were planning to buy a new transmission anyway...
 
   (BTW, I've heard that quite a few truckers and race car
drivers shift this way).
 
==================
zaphod@madnix.UUCP (Ron Bean)
uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!zaphod


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102841
From: mac1@Isis.MsState.Edu (Mubashir Cheema)
Subject: 1st time Chrysler buyer, $400 off really ?


 Hello World,
	     just bought a new Stealth two weeks ago. Got a grad student 
 rebate. Someone told me that there's another $400 reabet for 1st time
 Chrysler buyer. True ? If yes can I still get it or am I too late ?


Mubashir Cheema
Sparco Communications				Ph: (601) 323-5360
LaGalarie 					Fax:(601) 324-6433
500 Russell Street, Suite 20			email: mac1@ra.msstate.edu
Starkville, MS 39759


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102842
From: hong@remus.rutgers.edu (Hyunki Hong)
Subject: VW Passat:  advice sought


I am currently in the car market and would like opinions on a VW
Passat GLX.  How does it compare to a Toyota Camry?  I thought the car
looked very solid, stable and European.  Only disappointment so far is
that that it doesn't offer an airbao my next question is, why isn't VW
offering automobiles with airbags?  Should I pay the extra three
thousand for a BMW 318 is even though it is smaller and less powerful
than than the Passat?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102843
From: hhtra@usho0b.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Subject: Re: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.

In article <1993Apr17.175451.30896@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) writes:
|>
|> I have $30,000 as my budget.  I'm looking for a sports or GT car. 
|> What do you think would be the best buy? 

 Well, for a bit more you could get an Mazda RX-7, definitely a BEST.

 For under $30k you're stuck with (in no particular order):

      Chevy Camaro Z28 LT1-1
      Ponitac Firebird Firehawk
      Ford Mustang Cobra
      Toyota MR2 Turbo
      GMC Typhoon  ;)



 TRAVIS
  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102844
From: rremaley@bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: Re: $6700 for hail damage - a record?

I was in the great storm.....my Mazda MPV was damaged so bad they are 
going to replace the top, doors and hood. It is Black so they will repaint 
the entire vehicle...estimated cost around $7000 and repair time approx. 3 
to 4 weeks.


rremaley@bcm.tmc.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102845
From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <1993Apr19.220321.4565@research.nj.nec.com>, behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes...
#In article <1993Apr16.160825.25622@newsgate.sps.mot.com> rapw20@email.sps.mot.com writes:
#>In article <1993Apr15.222600.11690@research.nj.nec.com>  
#>behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes:
#>>  ...
#>> 	Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for
#>> R12.  You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning  
#>Society
#>> (MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per
#>> retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash  
#>those
#>> R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very  
#>shaky
#>> technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst).
#>>  ...
#>
#>Now, I'm not saying you're wrong because I know that the R-12 substitutes  
#>exist, but this sounds a lot like the 200mpg carbs that the oil companies  
#>keep us all from getting.
# 
#	It sounds crazy, but it's true.  One of the best R-12 subsitutes,
#GHG-12, is currently a commercial product.  Unfortunately, the SAE committee
#on mobile air conditioning is comprised almost exclusively of MACS members.
#Such being the case, no papers about any alternative refrigerant other than
#R-134a have been accepted for review/publication.
# 
#	Yo, John?  You want to provide some more details?  Or should I just
#repost your voluminous repost?
# 
#Later,
#-- 
#Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
#behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
#Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
#agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.


    We here are *VERY* interested in info on R12 substitutes (in fact I
 think we really need all the info on this we can get).

    I would really appreciate technical, supply, and hardware-upgrade
 details.  

   Also, R12 is a useful solvent/reagent in the extraction/production of
 certain pharmaceuticals.  Any info on the substitutes' corresponding
 usefullness?

    I am currently working with the local engineers who are making sure
 we are compliant with the regulations.  The trouble with regulations is
 that they only tell you what you are no longer permitted to do, not what
 you should do instead.

     I think the cause of the new regulations is the Montreal Protocol
 which has a definite CFC-phase-out schedule.  (Of course the cause of
 the Montreal Protocol was all the research done on the causes of the
 Ozone Depletion Problem.)

     Someone asked earlier about why the governments were working so fast
 to ban the ozone-depleting (CFC) chemicals and not gasolines and other
 greenhouse-gas-producing compounds.  The greenhouse effect (produced by
 infrared-trapping gasses like CO2 and methane) and the ozone-hole problem
 (produced by long-lived, chlorine-containing molecules) are not the same
 thing.  It is a lot easier to do something about not using the CFC's
 (chloro-fluorocarbons) than it is to stop producing CO2 and methane which
 are natural byproducts of combustion and of living (animal) organisms.
 Planting more trees and not destroying so many existing trees would help
 the greenhouse-gas problem, but would do nothing for the ozone problem.

 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102846
From: kimata@convex.com (Hiroki Kimata)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NISSAN

In <1qideqINNl79@sumax.seattleu.edu> smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris) writes:

>Hey, NISSAN, why aren't you guys making any station wagons?  You used
>to make a wagon on every platform (SENTRA, STANZA, MAXIMA) and now
>NONE AT ALL.

In fact, they make some ,but they just don't sell them here in U.S.

Sunny California is a 1.6l wagon based on Sentra.
Avenil is a 2.0l 4WD/2WD wagon .(It looks like Infinity G20 
but actually it's independently designed to be a wagon.I mean, it's 
not based on any sedans.) 
 
Nissan had better consider to sell them here.

>After buying my SE-R and really loving it, I would like to buy another
>NISSAN product for my wife -- but prefer a wagon  (I've owned minivans
>and don't prefer them.)

>How about an ALTIMA wagon?  or a sentra wagon would do...

Sounds nice. But I doubt they have a plan. Coz Avenil was introduced 
to replace any sedan based wagon.

>or, here's an even better suggestion, why don't you guys go ahead and
>buy the rest of Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru) and put either an
>in-line 4 or V-6 into the LEGACY 4WD wagon.  I'd buy the Legacy in a
>minute if it had a Nissan engine instead of the Horizontal 4 that they
>seem sentimentally attached to.

>With all the Camry, Accord, Taurus, Volvo and Subaru wagons out there
>-- it's got to be a market segment that would be worthwhile!

>I can wait a year or two -- but if you don't have something to compete
>by the 1995 model I may have to go elsewhere.

>Thanks.

>-- 
>Steve Morris, M.A.    : Internet: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu
>Addiction Studies Pgm : uucp    :{uw-beaver,uunet!gtenmc!dataio}!sumax!smorris
>Seattle University    : Phone   : (206) 296-5350 (dept) or 296-5351 (direct)
>Seattle, WA 98122_____:________________________________________________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102847
From: turbo@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gerald.l.lindahl)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

From article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU>, by ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi"):
> This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
> Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
> throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
> cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
> a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
> in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
> made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
> doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.
> 
> What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
> can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
> 20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
> 
> Erik velapold

Yes
!!!!
!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102848
From: jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Jason Hanson)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr15.192250.18815@cbnewse.cb.att.com> turbo@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gerald.l.lindahl) writes:
>From article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU>, by ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi"):
>> This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
>> Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
>> throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
>> cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly

About a year ago, some kids tossed a rock off an overpass on I-94 near Eau
Claire, Wisconsin and it killed the driver below.  (I believe he was a
schoolteacher from Minnesota.)
-- 
Jason Hanson         |  915 W. Wisconsin Ave #1010  |  (414) 288-2179
Marquette University |   Milwaukee, WI 53233-2373   |  Ham Radio: N9LEA/AE
--  jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu    ==+==    n9lea@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na  --

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102849
From: jdenune@pandora.sdsu.edu (John Denune)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

Mark Monninger (markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com) wrote:
: While not exactly a service incident, I had a similar experience recently  
: when I bought a new truck.
: I had picked out the vehicle I wanted and after a little haggling we  
: agreed on a price. I wrote them a check for the down payment plus tax
: and license and told them I'd be back that evening to pick up the truck.  
: When I returned, I had to wait about an hour before the finance guy could  
: get to me. When I finally got in there, everything went smoothly until he  
: started adding up the numbers. He then discovered that they had  
: miscalculated the tax & license by about $150. He then said he needed  
: another $150 from me. I said we had already agreed on a price and it was  
: their problem, I wasn't giving them any more money. The finance guy then  

A similar thing happend to me a year ago.  I bought a used Ford Bronco
(which has since been stolen...  :(  )  and few weeks after I paid
and took delivery, they sent a letter telling me they goofed and 
miscalculated the license renewal by $300 and that I need to send
in a check to "avoid further delay" in the processing of my registration.
The thing is, I had already received the pink slip from the DMV, so
I ignored it.  I received another letter and then the phone calls
started coming.  First from the finance guy and then from the general
manager, both hounding me for the extra money.  They left me alone
once I told them I already had the paperwork and pointed out the clause
in the contract that stated that the final price was just that: FINAL.
Afterall, they wouldn't budge if I had told them I wanted another
$300 off after the deal had been signed, right?  I told them not 
to call again and that I would not do business with them in the future.
They didn't seem to have a problem with that.  This, after all, was a
used Ford at a Toyota dealership.

I had a much better experience buying a new Pathfinder about a month
ago.  It certainly pays to buy a car on the last Sunday of the month.
It was even raining too, so they had done very little business that 
weekend and were really willing to deal.  I kept telling them I would
think about it, and they kept dropping the price.  Got a very good
deal and so far have been very please with the service.

---John
jdenune@pandora.sdsu.edu 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102850
From: brandt@cs.unc.edu (Andrew Brandt)
Subject: Seeking good Alfa Romeo mechanic.

I am looking for recommendations for a good (great?) Alfa Romeo
mechanic in South Jersey or Philadelphia or nearby.

I have a '78 Alfa Spider that needs some engine, tranny, steering work
done.  The body is in quite good shape.  The car is awful in cold
weather, won't start if below freezing (I know, I know, why drive a
Spider if there's snow on the ground ...).  It has Bosch *mechanical*
fuel injection that I am sure needs adjustment.

Any opinions are welcome on what to look for or who to call.

Email or post (to rec.autos), I will summarize if people want.

Thx, Andy (brandt@cs.unc.edu)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102851
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.020356.28944@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>I take the electrodes of the Amp/Ohm/Volt meter whatever and connect one
>to each earlobe.  Then, symmetrically insert my fingers in each of the
>spark plug boots. No cheating guys!  both hands must be used!

I have just a couple of questions about this technique.

First, what firing order should I use?  Do I start with my pointer
finger or my pinky?  Left hand or right?

And secondly, I have a 12cyl and there are two cylinders unaccounted
for.  Any suggestions?

/andy



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102852
From: dje@bmw535.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Don Eilenberger)
Subject: Re: Do trains have radar?

In article <1993Apr13.111652@usho72.hou281.chevron.com>, hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:

|> 
|>  While taking an extended Easter vacation, I was going north on I-45
|>  somewhere between Centerville, TX and Dallas, TX and I came upon a 
|>  train parked on a trestle with its locomotive sitting directly over
|>  the northbound lanes.  There appeared to be movement within the cab 
|>  and out of curiosity I slowed to 85 to get a better look.  Just as I
|>  passed from underneath the trestle, my radar detector went into full 
|>  alert - all lights lit and all chirps, beeps, and buzzes going strong.
|>  I thought I had been nailed good but no police materialized.
|> 
|>  Could this have been caused by the train's radio or what?
|> 
|> 
|>  TRAVIS

Boy, Travis..

Were you LUCKY!!.. you went under the new Texas Rangers
Stealth Patrol Car! Good thing you slowed down!

Newsgroups: rec.autos
Distribution: world
Followup-To: 
References:  <1993Apr13.111652@usho72.hou281.chevron.com>
From: dje@bmw535.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Don Eilenberger)
Organization: 
Subject: Re: Do trains have radar?
Keywords: 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102853
From: ciarlett@mizar.usc.edu (Joni Ciarletta)
Subject: Honda Accord Brake Problem

My Honda Accord just hit the magic 100,000 mile mark and now
all sorts of things are beginning to go bad. The latest problem
I am experiencing is with my brakes.  They still stop the
car fine, but once I am stopped completely, my brake pedal
will sink another 2 or 3 inches all by itself.  If feels really
strange, and I am worried my brakes will quit working one of
these days.

I checked my brake fluid, and the reservoir was full, but the
fluid itself looked really dirty (like dirty oil).  I called
my mechanic and he told me I need a new brake master cylinder,
which will cost me a whopping $250-300.

I was just wondering if anyone out there has experienced this
sort of thing.  If so, is my mechanic being honest? Or do I
simply need to have my brakes bled and new fluid put in?

Any help you could provide would be appreciated.  Please send
replies directly to me, as I rarely have a chance to read this
list.  I will post the responses if there is any interest.

Thanks,

Joni
ciarlett@mizar.usc.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102854
From: sprec-j@acsu.buffalo.edu (Joel Sprechman )
Subject: Cleaning EuroWiper Boots?

I have the EuroWiper boots in White and had to throw away the first pair
since I found no way of cleaning them after they looked almost black. Now
I have my second pair of white ones and once again they are dirty. I need
a way to clean them w/o removing them since I had to cut them to remove
them, is there a way? Or should I just buy black ones? 
thanks
-Joel

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Sprechman                             sprec-j@acsu.buffalo.edu  
University at Buffalo                      v069pff7@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu

"It's not a black/white thing, it's a homosapian thing"
"It takes a big man to cry, and an even bigger man to laugh at that man"
-Jack Handy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102855
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NISSAN (Really Station Wagon)

With the popularity of minivans, the market room for station wagons is 
squeezed out. They are not as comfortable as sedan, and don't carry as 
much as the minivans. 

This is not to say nobody wants the wagon anymore. But the demand is certainly
hampered by the minivan, and may not be economical to build a product for.

Jason Chen

A station wagon owner

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102856
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: Old Corvettes / Low insurance?

In article <C5J5MI.FMI@news.rich.bnr.ca> Peon w/o Email (Eric Youngblood) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.011805.28485@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, swr2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT WARREN ROSANDER) writes:
>|> In article <C5Csux.Fn1@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, gdhg8823@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (George Hei
>|> nz) writes:
>|> >After too many years of school I'm finally graduating and getting a real
>|> >job.  Of course I am trying to make plans of how to spend all this extra
>|> >money.  Right now I have an 89 accord, a good car, but not real sporty &
>|> >I was thinking of selling it in about two years and dropping around
>|> >$20k on a sports car of some kind.  After thinking about it, I may have a
>|> >better idea -- I'll keep the Accord until it drops and buy the car I've
>|> >always wanted -- a Corvette Stingray. My reasoning is that $8000 (accord)+
>|> >$8000 (corvette) =$16000 is less than what I would spend anyway.
>|> >
>|> >Basically, I'm thinking of a late 70's, early 80's for around $7-$10k.
>|> >My question is, what are good years to consider (for reliability, looks,
>|> >horsepower -- in that order, believe it or not, horsepower is not a main
>|> >concern, if I want to go fast, I get on my motorcycle) and what are
>|> >good prices?
>|> >
>|> >Also, what would insurance look like?  I'm male, single, 23 (I might
>|> >wait until I'm 25 to get the car = lower insurance). Would the fact that
>|> >I mainly drive the other car lower it?  Is there some type of "classic
>|> >car" or "rarely driven" insurance class for driving it under 10k miles
>|> >per year?
>|> >
>|>     My dad has a 66 vette and its on what you say 'classic insurance'.
>|>     Basically what that means is that it has restricted amount of driving
>|>     time, which basically means it cant be used as an every day car and would
>|>     probably suit your needs for limited mileage.
>|> -- 
>
        In my area, Denver, if you look around alittle you can get an
    1984 for 10,000 or less, not much less. You said your not looking
    to go fast, they are a really nice car just not real powerful.>
>In addition to restricted mileage, many classic insurance carriers also require
>that the vehicle be garaged when not in use.
>
>$0.02
>
>Ericy
>
>
>      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*
>      | Eric Youngblood                                             |
>      | Bell-Northern Research    _                                 |
>      | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~-                               |
>      |                         \,  _}                              |
>      |                           \(    +---------------------------|
>      |                                 |   Peon w/o Email privs    |
>      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102857
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: SHO clutch question (grinding noise?)

In article <C5H6F8.LDu@news.rich.bnr.ca> jcyuhn@crchh574.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (James Yuhn) writes:
>   That's not the clutch you're hearing, its the gearbox. Early SHOs have
>   a lot of what is referred to as 'gear rollover' noise. You can generally

	I have one of the first SHOs built, and _mine_ doesn't make
this noise.




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102858
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qh61m$b6l@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>It's a bit hard to "prove" a point like this, but I can compare the

	I was hoping for something like "The chassis exhibits X 
degrees of flex when subjected to forces of more than Y units.
Forces of more than Y units begin to manifest at Z miles per hour."

	Not "Well, gee, it wasn't designed to go fast because, uhh,
well, gee, it wasn't designed to go fast.  It's not a Porsche, you
know".

>come with better seatbelts, more supportive seats, a stronger
>passenger compartment cage, better brakes, a stiffer suspension,
>different tires, and a body design that takes advantage of aero
>effects to keep the car on the ground. What *do* they come with?  

	Well, as compared to the normal Taurus, the SHO comes
with more supportive seats,better brakes,a stiffer suspension,
different tires, and a body design that takes advantage of aero
effects to keep the car on the ground (or at least I think that's
what all that boy-racer plastic is for).  You're kidding yourself if
you think any car on the road has a passenger compartment made to
withstand 130 MPH impacts.  

>Compare either to the Porsche 911 and you tell me which was designed

	Oh, right.  Only 120,000 dollar cars should be driven fast.
They drive goddamn Rabbits at 120 MPH in Europe, pal, and I reckon
a Taurus is at least as capable as a Rabbit.

>certainly haven't convinced me.

	Of course not.  "Speeding-is-bad.  Speeding-is-illegal. 
I-will-not-speed.  I-love-Big-Brother."  You had your mind made up
already.

	It's interesting that lots of the roads out west had *NO*
speed limits until 1975.  

								wr




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102859
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1993Apr14.152328.15997@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>There may be a case where a speed limit sign is not necessary. But take
>them away entirely?

	Yeah, you're right.  Doing away with speed limits would just
mean huge tax increases as municipalities tried to make up for the
revenue they used to gouge from passing motorists.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102860
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <3090@shaman.wv.tek.com> andrew@frip.wv.tek.com writes:
>So is cocaine.  What's your point?

	That neither is harmful when used carefully?




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102861
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Too fast

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>Compare either to the Porsche 911 and you tell me which was designed

>	Oh, right.  Only 120,000 dollar cars should be driven fast.
>They drive goddamn Rabbits at 120 MPH in Europe, pal, and I reckon
>a Taurus is at least as capable as a Rabbit.

My whole point was not to say that the cars *couldn't* go that fast,
but that they *shouldn't* go that fast.  A family sedan designed to be
operable at 85mph doesn't suddenly become operable at 130mph because
you added some plastic aero effects, slightly wider tires, and a much
larger engine.  That's what the SHO is -- a slightly modified family
sedan with a powerful engine.  They didn't even bother improving the
*brakes.*

The Mustang is essentially the same deal as the SHO -- a big power
plant stuck in a mid-size sedan, with almost no other modifications.
I have real-life experience with the Mustang -- it handles like a
brick (except when you're invoking oversteer, of course, something I
personally avoid doing on the highway) and stopping power is
inadequate even from 80mph.  Lots of accelleration -- but the rest of
the car is not up to par.

I picked the Porsche example because they are designed with speed in
mind.  It didn't have to be the 911 -- it could have been the much
cheaper 944 or one of several Mercedes or Audi models.  All of these
cars are fairly expensive -- but so are the parts that make them
drivable at high speed.  This should be elementary.

There are a few things to keep in mind about Europe, since you brought
it up.  My Autobahn knowledge is admittedly second-hand, but I believe
the following to be true:

1. Drivers are much better disciplined in Europe than they are here.
2. The roads comprising the Autobahn are much better designed than
   they are here, and usually include animal fences.  This makes them
   far more predictable than most US highways.
3. Not all of Europe is the Autobahn.  Most places in Europe have
   speed limits that aren't out-of-line with what we used to have in
   the US -- if my friends weren't lying to me they're typically not
   much higher than 120km/h.

I strongly suspect you won't find a lot of Rabbit owners doing 120mph
(nearly 200km/h) on the Autobahn, but I could be wrong.  Some people
have no respect for their own lives.

>>You certainly haven't convinced me.

>	Of course not.  "Speeding-is-bad.  Speeding-is-illegal. 
>I-will-not-speed.  I-love-Big-Brother."  You had your mind made up
>already.

If you think so you sure don't pay attention to my postings.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102862
From: dchamber@b15news.b15.ingr.com (Doug Chamberlain)
Subject: Re: Cherokee v. Explorer

jcksnste@ACF1.NYU.EDU writes:

>Hi All,
>  Brand new to the group, so please, no flames!

>Honest opinions on Jeep Cherokee Country (not Sport) v. Ford Explorer.

>My stepfather, who ponders every major decision up to four months AFTER
>making it, is looking at one of the two.  Also, please comment on the
>importance, if any, between 4WD and 2WD.  We live in Princeton, NJ and
>will barely ever take it off road.  We learned with this last winter that
>we could really use something with a little more confidence in 20 inches of
>snow than an Olds Cutlass Eighty-Eight!!

>All replies appreciated.. he'll be pondering this for a while.  He's already
>decided on 6 cyl. over 4, so don't worry about that one..

>Thanks!

>-->Steve

  I own a new ford Explorer, I really love it!
I drove the Jeep and besides the power I just didn't see
spending the money for it! The Jeep was great but I just
love the Explorer! I have a 2WD and I got through the blizzard 
of 93 just fine! I drove about 400 miles in the worst part of    
storm and it never faulterd!     My own Opinion  
                                    Doug                  i













>(jcksnste@acf1.nyu.edu)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102863
From: n8643084@henson.cc.wwu.edu (owings matthew)
Subject: Re: Ranger vs. S-10 opinions

If your buying a compact pickup do yourself a favor and wait a few months
for the 1994 GMC sonoma.  Magazines are saying it is day and night over the
current truck.  It's georgeous, solid, and fast (200hp Vortec 4.3 V-6).
Should whip the Ranger in every area too (accept maybe payload).  And always
pick a GMC over a Chevy.  GMC's are always so much better looking.  Man, I 
miss the Comanche.

Marty and Matt Owings
'87 250 ninja type rider dudes

"It's a feeling that we all wanna know
and it's an obsession to some
to keep the world in you rearview mirror
while you try to run down the sun"

"Wheels" by Rhestless Heart.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102864
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: LH Workmanship

I just visited the NY Auto Show, and saw two LH cars on the floor: Eagle 
Vision and Dodge Intrepid. 

Really nice I must say. Very attractive styling, lots of features and room, 
at a competitive price.  

Unfortunately, the workmanship is quite disappointing. On BOTH cars,
the rubber seals around the window and door fell off. It turns out
the seals are just big grooved rubber band. It goes on just by pressing
the groove against the tongue on the door frame. Surely it would come
off easily.

I am not sure how many of this kind of pooring engineering/assembly
problems that will show up later.

I may still consider buying it, but only when it establishes a good
track record.

Jason Chen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102865
From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr14.130427.21349@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> dje@bmw535.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Don Eilenberger) writes:
>
>In article <1qgi8eINNhs5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca>, yiklam@unixg.ubc.ca (Yik Chong Lam) writes:
>|> Hello,
>|> 
>|> 	Does anyone know how to take out the bolt under the engine
>|> compartment?  Should I turn clockwise or counter?  I tried any kind
>|> of lubricants, WD-40,etc, but I still failed!
>|> 	Do you think I can use a electric drill( change to a suitable
>|> bit ) to turn it out?  If I can succeed, can I re-tighten it not too
>|> tight, is it safe without oil leak?
>|> Thank you very much in advance------  Winson

  I would suggest you take the car to the nearest Chevron dealer, with
your own oil and filter.  Ask for an oil change.  It will cost less
than $10.  Watch him/her do it.  Just from watching someone do a job,
you will be able to learn and remember the sequence, and do it right
when you do it yourself the next time.  Besides, when he/she loosens
the drain nut, the next time around it will be easier for you.

  If it is stuck, use an impact wrench.  Not too much force though.
Use a new washer each time you put the nut back.....

-S
ssave@ole.cdac.com



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102866
From: maloney@badlands.NoDak.edu (Pat T Maloney)
Subject: Pontiac e-mail Car clubs


I am interested to know if there is any Pontiac e-mail car clubs out
there?  Has anyone started one, or is anybody thinking about starting one.
Thanks for any info you can give me

maloney@badlands.NoDak.edu



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102867
From: sylveste@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles

In article <Apr09.084236.19413@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
> In article <1q34huINNjrv@uwm.edu> qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>>  Subarus don't sell that well, although the percentage of Subes purchased
>>  with AWD is probably relatively high. 
> 
> 56% of all subarus sold are 4wd/awd.
> 
>> Audi is backing down on the number
>>  of models it offers with AWD.  Before, one could purchase an 80 or 90 with
>>  AWD, but now it is reserved strictly for the top line model; the same goes
>>  for the 100/200.
> 
> the 80/80Q has been eliminated from the US lineup, but the 90 is still
> available in quattro version, though it is hardly cheap.  they are
> still true to their pledge of making 4wd an option on their entire
> line of cars.  now, if only they will bring in the s4 wagon..
> 
> eliot

Before the S4 became the S4 it was called the 200 turbo quattro 20v.
This model did come in a wagon, a very quick wagon.  Very rare also.

                                                   Mike Sylvester  Umass


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102868
From: neilson@seoul.mpr.ca (Robert Neilson)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

[sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]

> That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselves
> and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is 
> imminent.
>
> Steve Heracleous

You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
me - those kids are mean.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102869
From: hanguyen@megatest.com (Ha Nguyen)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr14.203800.12566@progress.com> damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio) writes:
>bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss) writes:
>
>>You could take a screw driver and hammer and start punching holes in
>>various locations and when some black slippery stuff starts pouring
>>out then you would know that the oil drain plug is nearby (within a foot
>>or two anyway). Close the holes with toilet paper before refileing with oil
>>though.
>
>You have to *refill* the engine with oil! Wow, no wonder I can't get
>an engine to last more than my first oil change. Don't forget to
>punch holes in the radiator too, it will spray nice refreshing water
                    ^^^^^^^^
>on the engine and keep it nice & cool. ;-)
>
>-Steve

Gee, you really make me confused.  What is radiator?  Where is it located?
What does it look like?  Will it release any radiation (since it sounds 
like radia-tion genera-tor) when you punch holes?

hanguyen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102870
From: ae015@Freenet.carleton.ca (Steve Hui)
Subject: Re: Instead of a Saturn SC2, What???


One thing that everyone is forgetting in this argument
over the pricing of the SC1 vs. the Japanese cars is
the Saturns "no-dicker sticker".  This makes the Saturn's
price low in comparison to the inflated base prices of
the Japanese competition on paper, but in reality, one
could dicker several hundred dollars off the price of
the Japanese cars.

Admittedly, though, here in Canada, at least, the SC2 
is in the same price class as the Civic Si, not the
SC1.

Steve Hui

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102871
From: theckel@col.hp.com (Tim Heckel)
Subject: Re: Instead of a Saturn SC2, What???

For those that are interested I got my fully optioned (Air, ABS,
sunroof) '92 SE-R in September 1991 for $13,555 in Sacramento, CA. It
was one of the 1st '92s sold, few of the dealers had any, no local
dealer had an ABS equipped SE-R.  I went straight to the fleet manager
at the dealership I liked, told him what I wanted, made him aware that I
knew what his price should be.  He called me back with exactly what I
wanted from a dealer 125mi away, I took delivery the next day. 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102872
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: LH Workmanship

In article <1993Apr15.203750.25764@walter.bellcore.com> jchen@ctt.bellcore.com writes:
>I just visited the NY Auto Show, and saw two LH cars on the floor: Eagle 
>Vision and Dodge Intrepid. 
>
>Really nice I must say. Very attractive styling, lots of features and room, 
>at a competitive price.  
>
>Unfortunately, the workmanship is quite disappointing. On BOTH cars,
>the rubber seals around the window and door fell off. It turns out
>the seals are just big grooved rubber band. It goes on just by pressing
>the groove against the tongue on the door frame. Surely it would come
>off easily.

Lack of build quality was the thing  I notced on the first 2 LH's I
saw months back. The panel gaps were large and non-uniform between
the 2 cars I saw - the kind of thing you expect and accept on a
Mustang - but not from Chrysler's savior.  I drove one of the low
end cars, and thought it was more than adequate. I'd prefer
an LH to a Taurus from my brief experience.

Craig

>
>I am not sure how many of this kind of pooring engineering/assembly
>problems that will show up later.
>
>I may still consider buying it, but only when it establishes a good
>track record.
>
>Jason Chen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102873
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <bob1.734909414@cos> bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes:
>In <1993Apr14.045526.21945@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>
>>In article <1qg19v$5ju@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> mhartman@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Mark Hartman) writes:
>>Driving 130 in a straight line is fine, you very soon become aclimated 
>>to it. It's only a rush when there are corners that you don't
>>think you can make.
>
>>On a clear autobahn, 130 is nothing. In the U.S. 99% of people and
>>all judges would label you insane and it is difficult to persuade
>>people otherwise.
>
>Sure, but the surface condition of most good autobahns is far better

The quality of autobahns is something of a myth. The road surface
isn't much different to a typical TX freeway. They are better
in terms of lighting, safety, signs, roadmarkings etc. I'd have
no problem driving 130 on most US freeways, as it is, I save it
for the backroads, which really are more likely to be dangerous.

>than most of the roads here. A dip in the asphalt that you test your
>shocks on at 60 will kill you at 130. Don't get me wrong, I love to

It would have to be quite severe. I don't recall any US freeway,
without road damage warnings, that i would regard as unsafe
at 130 in any decent, well damped car. Note that my definition
of decent, well damped, would exclude most typical American sedans.

>drive quickly and they say my Probe will do 130, but that's 30 more
>than I've ever tried in it cause there isn't a decent enough piece
>of road hereabouts.

I don't know where you live, but I would be much more worried
about cops, other traffic etc. than the road surface at 130.
It just isn't that fast or that dangerous. If you have a Probe
GT, no problem. The 4cyl models I have driven would be
likely to be unpredictable at higher speeds.

Craig
>
>>Craig
>>>
>>>-- 
>>>   Mark Hartman         mhartman@umcc.umcc.umich.edu
>>>   Kalamazoo, MI        bk405@cleveland.freenet.edu
>>>    "I'm naked in the school!" - Sleepyhead -
>>>
>
>Bob
>
>

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102874
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <C5JnK3.JKt@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>	Wasn't the original intent of the reverse lights for the driver, so he
>could see where he was backing up???  Although reverse lights on the sides

No. reverse lights are to warn others that you are backing up. They
aren't bright enough to (typically) see by without the brake and tail
lights. 

>are useful for telling whether cars are backing up out perpendicular to the
>path of the car, I don't think warnings were their original intents, since they
>are colored white.

Well, red and orange were already taken. Maybe white defines the direction
that the car is moving in.


If you really want to be able to see behind you, get some fog lamps for
the back of the car. These work very well - and are a good way to get
rid of tailgaters if you get that rush of testosterone.

Craig
>
>
>
>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
>*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
>*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102875
From: jek@icf.hrb.com (Joe Karolchik)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

(I deleted your name because I don't want to sound accusative in my remark)
> 
> This is a two-sided problem. Unfortunately our culture has been deteriorating over time.
> The "breeding" of these low-life's is getting worse; our justice system is at best
> extremely weak to handle these problems. That is why low-abiding citizens should have
> the power to protect themselves and their property using deadly force if necessary 
> anywhere a threat is imminent.
> 
> My Camaro (my pride and joy) got stolen right out of my driveway a few years back.
> The persons that did that were eventually caught (lucky for me!) but not before
> having trashed the car.
> 
> On another occasion, on my way from Texas to Florida, I had stopped in a small motel
> for the night in a small town somewhere in Florida. About 5 youths were disturbing my
> car, setting off the alarm and challenging me to come out. When I and another tenant
> walked out with a 357 Magnum and a 45 automatic respectively, they vanished. 
> Needless to say, I immediately packed-up and left.
> 
> Watch out for car-jacking and staged accidents. They can be deadly!
> 
I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if 
you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your
alarm?  I can think of worse things in the world.  Glad you got out of there
before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.

We can all ask "what's happening to society these days", but don't forget to
ask another important question too: What effort am I expending to make it any
different than it is?

Just my thoughts,
Joe Karolchik

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102876
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

In <1993Apr14.230524.9578@ctp.com> bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas) writes:

>In article <zdem0a.734707529@hgo7> zdem0a@hgo7.hou.amoco.com (Donna Martz) writes:

>[Stuff Deleted]

>>
>>Excuse me, but I understood what Mr. Smith meant.  AND, I have often observed 
>>when traffic is "blocked solid", that if a few people yeild to the "moron"
>>who is impatiently riding bumpers, the slug at the front of the pack will
>>miraculously wake up, change lanes, and viola! no more jam.  Granted the
>>situation here does not apply to rush hour in a crowded city.  But I have
>>observed this situation regularly on your average interstate, six or 
>>eight sets of cars, side by side, bunched up in a "pack" with open 
>>freeway fore and aft as far as you can see.  The people who refuse to
>>yeild as a "point of honor" are just as annoying as the slug in the front.

>I agree that if traffic is all blocked up and you want to pass, you might
>not feel like moving over for someone behind you because you don't want to
>give them that one car-length, when they should just wait like you are.
>BUT, if you're one of those people that just sit's behind the person, and
>doesn't flash them with the high beams, or pull left and flash them, or
>ride their bumper, or otherwise tell them that you *do* in fact want to 
>go by, and you're not just drafting them, then get the hell out of the 
>way of someone who will!  I especially hate it when you flash someone at
>the back of a line and they don't 'pass it on'.  

So after I've flashed my lights at the chap in front and he doesn't
'pass it on' (and few if any do), what next? On major highways, 3 or more
lanes in each direction, keeping to the extreme right blocks folks who
are entering. Also, as someone posted in this thread, here in the D.C.
area we have a few left lane exits (sounds like 66). If you wait until
the last minute to get in the left lane you won't, cause these yoyos
won't make room.

We have a particularly bad strech here in Merryland just over the Cabin
John bridge. There are two very long entry ramps which all the hurry-up
yahoos dive into cause they want to get ahead. When we get to the point
where these ramps merge, all hell breaks lose. The result is that traffic
which was moving at 55 on the VA side of the bridge, stalls on t'other
side. If these dingbats had stayed in lane, allowed the folks coming up
the two ramps to merge, we would still be doing 55. Instead we do start-
stop for 4 miles. Dave Barry's idea of a laser equipped car would be
real useful here.

Bob

PS: If you drive the beltway and want to merge, look for a brown Probe
with a silver haired driver, then use your signals - I don't read minds,
but I do try to be courteous. They told me courtesy was contagious, but
I guess the folks around here have had their shots :-/


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102877
From: smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5JGC4.AJJ@dove.nist.gov>, keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys) writes:
>I know that this isn't the group for it, but since you brought it up,
>does anyone have any idea why they haven't "bombed" the Waco cult?    

Perhaps it is because witnesses who have left the compound have all
testified that the BATF shot first, they they did not identify themselves
before tossing in concussion grenades (not that anyone inside could have
_heard_ such identification after being near a concussion grenade) and
the announcement from the BATF that they have sealed the warrant under
which they were operating - which was a _search_ warrant, by the way,
_not_ an arrest warrant.  In short, perhaps because the BATF is wildly
out of control and perhaps calmer heads have realized that bombing a
compound full of woman and children will not improve their position.
There is a real chance that Koresh will be able to prove self-defense
in court.  That will leave - what? - four officers dead and no one to
blame but the BATF.

Followups directed to alt.activism, where the discussion has raged nearly
as long as the seige, and which shows every sign of not giving up nearly
as soon.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want,
it is the freedom to do whatever we are able.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102878
From: alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung)
Subject: Re: electronic odometers (was: Used BMW Question ..... ???)

In article <9833@dirac.physics.purdue.edu> lovall@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Daniel L. Lovall) writes:
>
>It shouldn't be THAT hard if you know much about digital electronics.  If the
>counter is made with standard TTL chips, all you should need to do is find
>the chip(s) used for counting, figure out what mileage you want to put in,
>and preset it but wiring the preset pins directly to low/high (you'd also have
>to know what the conventions are for low and high).  It might be a little more
>involved than this, but it shouldn't be beyond someone with a BSEE or BS EET.
>All the display does is convert what the counter chips say into digits using
>a "translation table" stored in ROM.
>

Nobody is using discrete IC's to do these functions anymore if at
all.  I doubt any of the Motor electronics had any to start with.
...Much less TTL.

I can almost guarantee that it'll a fruitless attempt to figure out
how BMW does it without breaking anything and invalidating any
warranty  on the car.  If you're lucky, you'd still be able to
start the car.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102879
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:

>In article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU> ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes:
>>This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
>>Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
>>throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
>>cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
>>a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
>>in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
>>made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
>>doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.

	The girl's OK, actually, and she recovered well enough to go home.  I
don't know if she has any permanent damage, though.  Just in case anybody was
concerned...

>>
>>What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
>>can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
>>20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
>>
>>Erik velapold

	If people start forcing others to take responsibility for their actions
things like this wouldn't happen.  Untill we stop blaming outside causes, and
start blaming the criminals, we will continue to let things like this happen.


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102880
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: VIPER


Last night I had a dream that my dad bought a Viper.
I took it out for a test drive, without his knowledge,
and had to push it all the way home just to avoid a ticket.
Wierd dream, I wonder what it means....

Roy.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102881
From: syck5280@miller.cs.uwm.edu (Steven B Syck)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <NEILSON.93Apr15135919@seoul.mpr.ca> neilson@seoul.mpr.ca (Robert Neilson) writes:
>[sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]
>
>> That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselves
>> and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is 
>> imminent.
>>
>> Steve Heracleous
>
>You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
>go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
>job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
>me - those kids are mean.

	As a stong self-defense advocate, you're 'statement', does littel
but irk me.  Of course shooting someone because they throw a rock at your
car is out of the question, but what if they disabled your car with their
rock and then wanted to come kill/rape/rob/beat/ or otherwise harm you,
your wife, kids?  
	I think you would like the power to defend yourself in this situation,
wouldn't you?  Or is it that you value the lives of such rock throwers
more than your own or those of your family?  
	Don't think it couldn't happen to you.  From the sounds of it here
it has happened to a few people.  

	Please do not misunderstand.  The only justification for using
deadly force on someone, is that if you don't, it will mean your own 
death or grave bodily harm.  I am far far away from supporting
vilante justice or anything like that..

	Oh, and if you mean to be funny, please add the appropriate :-)
	
Followups to talk.politics.guns please...  we're getting a bit off track
here....

-------   Steve Syck        syck5280@miller.cs.uwm.edu        --------


	

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102882
From: barnesm@sun.com (Mark Barnes - SunSoft)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

...and in San Francisco recently, some of our finest examples of humanity
poured oil over a road so that vehicles going uphill would suddnely become
immobile, and then they would walk right up to the vehicles and make their
demands known.
--------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Mark Barnes, System Engineer    |  <insert standard disclaimers here>
SunSoft                         |
Corporate Technical Escalations |  I speak for myself, an individual,
Menlo Park, CA, USA             |  not for the company for which I work.
barnesm@vavau.Corp.Sun.COM      |
--------------------------------+---------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102883
From: behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <1993Apr14.155159.32619@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL) writes:
>Yes, I have the same questions. What makes me upset is that R12 costs are
>skyrocketing and in fact can't be bought anymore in my area.  Also this is yet
>another way mechanics and dealers can RIP-OFF customers. Also I was reading
>that the new refrigerant is not compatible with the r12 system and that it
>would cost $ 300 upto a $ 1000 to retrofit a car with the old R12 system.
>ALthough it is important to consider the environment I think the sudden ban is
>a slap in the face for the consumer. Why is it that the consumer should have
>to pay for the retrofit? The auto companies should have seen this coming? Also
>why is it that the governments of the world were so quick in banning freon use
>and yet so slow in banning gasoline. In my opinion gasoline is just as
>hazardous as anything else.  Why can't they start proposing bans on this and
>switch to natural gas or electric? The technology is there. Hopefully some
>chemist will come up with another alternative coolant that will be compatible
>with the old system.
>Al H.

	Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for
R12.  You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning Society
(MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per
retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash those
R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very shaky
technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst).

	Does this piss you off?  Yes?  Write a letter to your congressman, to
your senator, to the president, to the EPA, and to the DOT and complain.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102884
From: behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: Carb Cleaners - Do they work???  (Performance?) Carb rebuild?

In article <1993Apr15.062557.1224@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>In article <C5Fyt4.JBy@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> schaffer@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Doug Schaffer) writes:
>>
>>How hard is a carb rebuild for moderately experienced backyard mechanic?
>>I've done my clutch and miscellaneous little engine fixes.
>
>The hardest part is usually getting the darned thing off the intake
>manifold.  Rebuilding a carb is fun, if you're into things with
>lots of little parts.  I used to rebuild them for all my friends'
>cars in high school, so it doesn't take a PhD.  Buy a carb rebuilding
>kit from an auto supply store.  Buy a gallon of the best carb cleaning
>solvent you can find (do they still make Tyme?) -- as a rule of thumb,
>buy the one with the scariest warning labels.  Put it into a metal(!)
>bucket.  Make yourself a dipping can by punching holes in the bottom of
>a coffee can and attaching a wire handle to it.  If the carb cleaner
>doesn't strip the paint right off the coffee can, you're not
>using the right stuff.  Use the can to soak the little stuff, and
>just hang the big parts from a coat hanger.  Wash them off with a
>garden hose, wipe off excess water with paper towels, and air dry.
>Then remember where all the little parts go.  Follow the rebuild
>kit's instructions concerning float height, choke tension, etc.
>Bolt it back on the engine and admire the super-clean carb on the
>filthy engine.

	Heed this man's warnings!  If you get carb cleaner this strong on
your hands, your hands will be eaten away.  Not pretty.  Hence the "dipping
can" method.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102885
From: gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

Why crawl under the car at all? I have a machine I got for my boat that 
pulls the oil out under suction through the dip stick tube. It does an
excellent job and by moving the suction tube around, you can get more 
old oil out than by using the drain plug. I think I paid $25 at E&B Marine.
The oil goes into a steel 3 gal can - wait until it cools and decant into
your favorite device. I use soft drink bottles. Easy to take them down to
the local oil recycle center.

FORZA!


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102886
From: garyl@moe.corollary.COM (Gary Lorman)
Subject: Re: electronic odometers (was: Used BMW Question ..... ???)

In article <9833@dirac.physics.purdue.edu> lovall@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Daniel L. Lovall) writes:
>In article <CONRADIE.40.734872761@firga.sun.ac.za> CONRADIE@firga.sun.ac.za (Gerrit Conradie) writes:
>
>.....
>
>>However, if I were to design a BMW's electronics, I will use a counter to 
>>count the number of times the car passed 1 million miles (or whatever), and 
>>store it in the car computer's memory. This could be read when doing a 
>>diagnostics test. Ditto for the date of the odometer. As easy as this is, I 
>>don't know why manafucturers don't do it (don't they?) to prevent illegal 
>>odometer tampering.
>>
>>But as a previous writer said, it will in any case take aeons to reset an 
>>odometer, mechanic or electronic by simulating a driving car. It will be 
>>easier to reprogram it. How, I don't know.
>
>It shouldn't be THAT hard if you know much about digital electronics.  If the
>counter is made with standard TTL chips, all you should need to do is find
>the chip(s) used for counting, figure out what mileage you want to put in,
>and preset it but wiring the preset pins directly to low/high (you'd also have
>to know what the conventions are for low and high).  It might be a little more
>involved than this, but it shouldn't be beyond someone with a BSEE or BS EET.
>All the display does is convert what the counter chips say into digits using
>a "translation table" stored in ROM.
>
>selah,
>
>Dan
>
But, those chips are probably inside a custom chip, (to make it smaller and
use less power) and the preset/data pins are not going to be available.
It would probably not be TTL but might be CMOS 
(wider operating voltage range), not that the tecnology would make 
much difference.
Plus the custom chip would probably be potted (encapsulated with epoxy).
Good luck.

-- 
--garyl-------------------------------------------------------------------------
		"Any shark that gets to be 11 or 12 feet long with 
	      300 big teeth can be considered dangerous" - 'Shark Bowl '92'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102887
From: cracker@tc.fluke.COM (Don Graham)
Subject: Re: JEEP WRANGLER - OPINI

In article <1qht5eINNjdf@hp-col.col.hp.com>, tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:
> I have had two Wranglers, and still have the second right now. It's a
> 1991 Wrangler Base model with the big I-6 4.0L engine, hard top, no
> power steering or air conditioning. Runs like a top. Has about 37k on
> it. Has never been in the shop. I can change my own oil (nice tall
> vehicle). I can lube it myself (11 fittings). I occasionally take it to
> Jiffy Lube to check the differentials and do the oil change there.
> 
> My previous Wrangler had nary a problem either. Here in Colorado there'
> more Jeeps than BMW's, Mercedes, Volvos, and the like together! In fact
> Jeep has been called the Colorado Car for a while. They hold their value
> well, and are very easy to resell. Mine cost right around $14.2K new. Of
> course, I didn't blow money on an Islander, Sahara, or Renegade which
                   ^^^^^^^^^^
I have a 92 Wrangler Sahara and paid $14.1 new (including the rebate).

> are just Wranglers with fancy inside stuff.
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
After driving a CJ-5 for 6 years, that fancy stuff is pretty nice.

> 
> The cars are primitive, ride like a dump truck, etc.. But if you live in
> an area that gets around 140" of snow per winter, you'd have one too.
> They'll go anywhere (with a winch) and are easy to get parts for. The
          ^^^^^^^^^^^
I like my Wrangler, but when doing some serious off roading, it can't
keep up with a CJ-5 because of ground clearance and limited suspension
travel.  I do have a winch and would like to get an ARB air-locker in the
future.

> 4.0L engine puts out 180-190 HP and gets around 20mpg. Not bad.

I love the 4.0.  

> 
> Just my experience. I'm sure there are bad ones out there, but that goes
> for any make and model.
> 
>

Don Graham
 



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102888
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qkon8$3re@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:

[stuff about autobahn and safety of sho at speed deleted]
>The Mustang is essentially the same deal as the SHO -- a big power

The Mustang is a much worse case of design irresponsibility than the
SHO. 
>plant stuck in a mid-size sedan, with almost no other modifications.
>I have real-life experience with the Mustang -- it handles like a
>brick (except when you're invoking oversteer, of course, something I

Its hard to predicatbaly drift a stock Mustang because
of the suspension.

>personally avoid doing on the highway) and stopping power is
>inadequate even from 80mph.  Lots of accelleration -- but the rest of
>the car is not up to par.

Yes. When i think Mustang, I think school-bus +  F16 motor. In
my mind the Mustang should be fitted with a speed limiter at 80-90
or so. It just isn't safe, check out your local junkyard, Mustangs
outnumber other cars by a proportion way in excess of sales in
junkyards.

I find it astonishing the CU or somesuchlike has not jumped on the
Mustang for poor brakes in relation to power. Ford should at least
standardize on the SVO rear brakes for all 5.0's.



>
>I picked the Porsche example because they are designed with speed in
>mind.  It didn't have to be the 911 -- it could have been the much
>cheaper 944 or one of several Mercedes or Audi models.  All of these
>cars are fairly expensive -- but so are the parts that make them
>drivable at high speed.  This should be elementary.
>
>There are a few things to keep in mind about Europe, since you brought
>it up.  My Autobahn knowledge is admittedly second-hand, but I believe
>the following to be true:
>
>1. Drivers are much better disciplined in Europe than they are here.

True of Northern Europe, latin countries are something else.

>2. The roads comprising the Autobahn are much better designed than
Kindof true. remember they were build by adolf in the '30's.

>   they are here, and usually include animal fences.  This makes them
>   far more predictable than most US highways.

Yes.

>3. Not all of Europe is the Autobahn.  Most places in Europe have

"Autobahn" is the german word for freeway. Other countries have
different names for loose equivalents; autostrada, autoroute, motorway
etc.

>   speed limits that aren't out-of-line with what we used to have in
>   the US -- if my friends weren't lying to me they're typically not
>   much higher than 120km/h.

Europe did seem on the brink of a 130kmh limit. It hasn't passed as
far as I know. typical speeds in western europe are much higher than
the US. Law enforcement is negligible in my experience (comapred
to the US) as there is no revenue enhancement motivation. The things
you really notice are the higher speed differentials, and the more
professional attitude to driving. You just never see two cars
running parallel at 55.1 mph oblivious to all around them.

>
>I strongly suspect you won't find a lot of Rabbit owners doing 120mph
>(nearly 200km/h) on the Autobahn, but I could be wrong.  Some people

You're wrong. GTI's  go this fast. Just kind of noisy, not the ideal

autobahn car. A lot of times you see cars being driven with the drivers
foot on the floor. How do I know? - when you're not making any ground
on the identical car in front of you!

>have no respect for their own lives.

If something happens at 130-150 you're dead, but the same goes for much
over 35. Driving at high speed forces you to concentrate. I feel much
safer driving 130+ on the autobahn than 60-80 in typical US traffic
because most people seem to be awake. I've never seen any driver reading
a book on an autobahn, I see it all too often in the US.

Craig

It just doesn't *seem* fast after 30 minutes or so of aclimation. everybody
drives that fast, no big deal. 

Craig
>
>>>You certainly haven't convinced me.
>
>>	Of course not.  "Speeding-is-bad.  Speeding-is-illegal. 
>>I-will-not-speed.  I-love-Big-Brother."  You had your mind made up
>>already.
>
>If you think so you sure don't pay attention to my postings.
>
>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.com



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102889
From: srihari@cirrus.com (Srihari Shoroff)
Subject: Re: Instead of a Saturn SC2, What???

In <Ifn=sPO00iV18_A8NZ@andrew.cmu.edu> jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason M. Roth) writes:

>>R&T had an article on cars of the SC1 ilk and they liked the Civic Ex,
>>the Escort GT and the MX-3 best of all, and the SC1 was way down the
>>list except for braking.

>I just looked at that article; first of all, this summary is inaccurate;
>of 10 cars, the SC1 was 5th, right behind these mentioned and the Suzuki
>Swift (!). As has been pointed out, it was a semi-silly comparison; the
>Saturn was at least $500 cheaper than the MX-3 and Escort (admittedly
>negligible, but an issue), and $1500 (!)less than the Honda. The stated
>goal was a base under $12k; the Honda was $500 over, while the SC2 at
>the same price was excluded. In other words, they let the best Honda
>play, but not the best Saturn.  Note that the Saturn did beat the $13k

I dont know about the car comparison but as far as the price goes rest
assured that the street prices for the MX-3 and Escort and (maybe) even
the Honda will be lesser than that of the Saturn you're talking about.
All price comparisons I've seen are based on MSRP and of course the
saturn dealer will sell the car for sticker price whereas the others
will do it way below sticker.

Srihari


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102890
From: neil@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Neil Williams)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

larose@austin.cs.utk.edu (Brian LaRose) writes:

>This just a warning to EVERYBODY on the net.  Watch out for
>folks standing NEXT to the road or on overpasses.   They can
>cause SERIOUS HARM to you and your car.  

>(just a cliff-notes version of my story follows)

>10pm last night, I was travelling on the interstate here in
>knoxville,  I was taking an offramp exit to another interstate
>and my wife suddenly screamed and something LARGE hit the side
>of my truck.  We slowed down, but after looking back to see the
>vandals standing there, we drove on to the police station.

>She did get a good look at the guy and saw him "cock his arm" with
>something the size of a cinderblock, BUT I never saw him. We are 
>VERY lucky the truck sits up high on the road; if it would have hit
>her window, it would have killed her. 

>The police are looking for the guy, but in all likelyhood he is gone. 

>I am a very good driver (knock on wood), but it was night-time and
>I never saw the guy.  The police said they thought the motive was to
>hit the car, have us STOP to check out the damage, and then JUMP US,
>and take the truck.  

>PLEASE BE AWARE OF FOLKS.  AND FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, PLEASE DON'T STOP!!!!

>peace.


>-- 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>brian larose  larose@cs.utk.edu   #12, 3103 Essary Rd. Knoxville, TN 37918.

>{}

As long as we're on the subject... Several years ago myself and two others
were riding in the front of a Toyota pickup heading south on Interstate 5
north of Seattle, WA. Someone threw a rock of an overpass and hit our
windshield. Not by accident I'm sure, it was impossible to get up to the
overpass quickly to see who did it. We figured it was kids, reported it and
left.
A couple of years ago it happend again and killed a guy at my company. He was
in his mid-fourties and left behind a wife and children. Turned out there was
a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old
that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do?
I don't think I'll over forget this story.
Neil Williams, Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA.
.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102891
From: toml@miles.ca.boeing.com (Tom Locke)
Subject: $22600 Subaru SVX -  Good deal?

Hi netters,

My friend is seriously thinking of getting the Subaru SVX. There is
a local dealer here in Seattle selling them for $22600, with
Touring package, that's $7400 off from MSRP. He thinks it's a 
very good deal (and I think so too). Since he knows I have access to
the net, he would like to get anyone's opinion about this car, especially
in the area of reliability and maintenanability.
Please send e-mail to me as my friend doesn't have access to the net.

My opinion about this car is, you get a lot for $22600:
auto everything (tranny, climate control, windows, locks, folddow rear seet),
full wheel drive, 2+2, fast (143 top spped), heavy (3580lb);-)

Thanks in advacne!
-- 
Tom Locke                         Work: (206) 865-6568
Boeing Computer Services        E-mail: toml@voodoo.boeing.com 
P.O. Box 24346  M/S 7K-20           or: uunet!bcstec!voodoo!toml
Seattle, WA  98124-0346

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102892
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NISSAN (Really Station Wagon)


this week's autoweek talks about how wagons are getting back in vogue.
i wouldn't mind an audi s4 wagon (great stealth value) but you'll
never catch me dead in a minivan!


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102893
From: dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1qke5b$mc4@spool.mu.edu> jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Jason Hanson) writes:
>>From article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU>, by ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi"):
>>> This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
>>> Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
>>> throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
>>> cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
>
>About a year ago, some kids tossed a rock off an overpass on I-94 near Eau
>Claire, Wisconsin and it killed the driver below.  (I believe he was a
>schoolteacher from Minnesota.)

Here in Houston a couple years ago a young pregnant woman was killed
in a similar manner.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102894
From: dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <1993Apr15.161531.11737@newsgate.sps.mot.com> rapw20@email.sps.mot.com writes:
>
>their problem, I wasn't giving them any more money. The finance guy then  
>brought in the manager on duty who proceeded to give me a hard time. I  
>reminded him that I was the customer and I didn't think I should be  
>treated like that and that if he didn't back off he could forget the whole  
>deal. He made some smart remark so I told him where he could stick it,  
>snatched back my check and left. Needless to say, they were not pleased by  
>the turn of events.

That's nothing.  When a friend of mine went shopping for a small
sedan a few years ago, she brought me along as a token male so
the salespeople wouldn't give her the "bimbo" treatment.
Her first choice was a Mazda 323, and second choice was a Nissan
Sentra.  We went to a Mazda dealership and described what "we"
wanted.  We started negotiating on the price, and the salesdroid
kept playing the "let me run this price by the sales manager".  After
playing the "good salesman, bad salesman" game, we finally told him
that if he didn't have the authority to negotiate a price, perhaps
we should be speaking directly to someone who did.  He brought in
the sales manager who proceeded to dick us around with every trick
in the book.  (Read Remar Sutton's "Don't Get Taken Every Time" for a
list.)  Finally, after playing a few more rounds of "you'll have to
work with us on this price", also known as "each time you come up a
thousand dollars we'll come down ten", the salesmanager gave a signal to
his two sales cronies, stood up, and said "well, we can't come down any
more so I guess we can't help you" and they trouped out of the room,
leaving us sitting in the salesman's office all by ourselves.  Hmm.
I'd read that sleazy salesmen sometimes bug their own offices so they
can leave and listen in on couples discussing the sales offer, and
I mentioned this aloud to my friend while we were sitting there wondering
why they would leave us in the office instead of showing us to the
door.  For lack of anything better to do, I picked up the phone on
the desk and called another Mazda dealership, asked for a salesman,
and began discussing what kind of price they would consider.  A few
sentences into the conversation, Mr. Salesmanager broke into the line
(!) and began telling me how rude he thought it was that I would call
another dealership from "his" phone!  I said that since he'd announced
that our business was over, he shouldn't care, and every time I tried
to talk to the other sales guy the sales manager would drown out our
voices with his own.  (How did he know that I was using the phone,
anyway?)  Finally, I hung up and we headed out of the showroom.
Sales manager and cronies come out of a little unmarked room and he
begins to berate us again.  We say that we won't bother him anymore,
we're going next door to the Nissan dealership.

Then comes the part I wish I could have videotaped.  As we go out
the front door, the sales manager SHOUTS across the entire showroom,
customers and all, "Go ahead!  You DESERVE to buy a Nissan!"
So my friend bought a Sentra.

Just so the guilty won't go unpunished, I'll mention that the
sales manager's name was Gary Tusone.  From his manner, his
refusal to come down to a reasonable price, and his anger at the
end, my guess is that he had bet our original salesman (who was
a young novice) that he'd be able to get at least X dollars out of
us, and he was steamed that we wouldn't fall for his slimy tricks.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102895
From: barnesm@sun.com (Mark Barnes - SunSoft)
Subject: Re: LH Workmanship


I was following an example of the LH the other day, and noticed the fit
between the tunk lid and the rear bumper.   The gap was quite small on
the left side, but much larger on the right.  Blech!!!

---Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102896
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In <1993Apr14.045526.21945@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:

>In article <1qg19v$5ju@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> mhartman@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Mark Hartman) writes:
>>
>> I don't know why you are complaining about 130.  Alot of us have cars that
>>can easily top that. Most that go 130 are built to do it also and can handle
>>the speed.  Why complain and just join in on the fast fun ?  Can I ask.
>>Have any of you been at the speed of 130 ?  Its a rush.

>Driving 130 in a straight line is fine, you very soon become aclimated 
>to it. It's only a rush when there are corners that you don't
>think you can make.

>On a clear autobahn, 130 is nothing. In the U.S. 99% of people and
>all judges would label you insane and it is difficult to persuade
>people otherwise.

Sure, but the surface condition of most good autobahns is far better
than most of the roads here. A dip in the asphalt that you test your
shocks on at 60 will kill you at 130. Don't get me wrong, I love to
drive quickly and they say my Probe will do 130, but that's 30 more
than I've ever tried in it cause there isn't a decent enough piece
of road hereabouts.

>Craig
>>
>>-- 
>>   Mark Hartman         mhartman@umcc.umcc.umich.edu
>>   Kalamazoo, MI        bk405@cleveland.freenet.edu
>>    "I'm naked in the school!" - Sleepyhead -
>>

Bob



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102897
From: wanderer@camelot.bradley.edu (Kevin Murphy)
Subject: old license plates wanted


  Hi.. Me and My roomate are going to redecorate the "living room" and 
we thought it would be a cool idea to have a license plate from every 
state in the US and then from whereever else we could find, like canada,
Mexixo, even some European ones.

  If anyone has any ideas or knows someone that could help us out
please let me know....  The more recent, the better, but anything
would be nice.

  Either that or if you have an old plate hanging around... (hint hint!)

Kev
wanderer@camelot.bradley.edu

Kevin C Murphy
1312 West Main Street #421
Peoria IL 61606

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102898
Subject: Re: MGBs and the real world
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)

In article <1993Apr8.095119.5367@hasler.ascom.ch> kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch writes:
>
>Oh yeah, I had a 1975 1275GT Mini, and even before I did anything
>to it, it could leave an MGB standing anywhere except, perhaps, on a long straight
>motorway run at 90+. 
>
>People who bought MGB`s bought them because they were an open topped sportscar
>and embodied what people thought they should for an old fashioned traditional
>brit. sportscar - not because they were great at anything.

Pretty much like the people who buy the Mazda MX-5 (Miata) today.  Small 
fun and you can fool yourself (and a lot of other people) that you have the 
performance of many far superior (and much more expensive) performnace cars.


-- 
Derek Tearne.   --   derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz   --    Fujitsu New Zealand   -- 
Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental
consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor.  
"If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102899
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Dumbest Driver Action

In <C5Dq2n.5uB@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Wayne Blunier) writes:

>jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:

>>I wish I had the figures with me to back me up, but I recall
>>statistics showing that women tended to have more accidents than men
>>but the damage was generally quite minor.  Men had fewer but far more
>>expensive accidents.  The rate of total vehicle destruction was
>>*significantly* higher for men than women, particularly in the younger
>>male age groups.

>>IMHO social considerations are probably the strongest influence here,
>>possibly more so than any difference between the sexes.  Social
>>influences often affect the type of car that's bought and the
>>situations the car is used in, and the type of car and driving
>>situations have a major effect on accident risk.  Thus if society
>>expects you to buy a Mustang and race it on the street you're more
>>likely to do it, and our society expects that of males more than
>>females.

>I agree with some of your social influences, such as driving conditions,
>but lets get real here.  Guys don't drag race becuase there expected too,
>we do it becuase its fun!  (and we find out whose car is faster).  
>Guys drive different than women becuase there men.  When a driver is  
>driving 'unusually', I can usually figure out if it is a male or female
>driver without looking at the driver.
>Social influences may give a person more reason to buy a vehicle that
>has a certain amount of character which he or she would like associated
>with.  Do you change your driving habits when no one is around?

Sheesh! I don't know what kind of women they have where you guys live,
but there are some ladies here who will blow your doors off. Or at least
they will try to, but we just can't let the youngsters get too uppity
with us old folks :-).
>>My $.02.
>Mark B.

>>jim frost
>>jimf@centerline.com
 Bob


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102900
From: dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf)
Subject: Re: LH Workmanship

In article <1993Apr15.203750.25764@walter.bellcore.com> jchen@ctt.bellcore.com writes:
>I just visited the NY Auto Show, and saw two LH cars on the floor: Eagle 
>Vision and Dodge Intrepid. 
>at a competitive price.  ...
>
>Unfortunately, the workmanship is quite disappointing. On BOTH cars,
>the rubber seals around the window and door fell off. It turns out
>the seals are just big grooved rubber band. It goes on just by pressing


"Through a single data point, you can draw any line you want."
-- Dr. S. Bart Childs, Professor, Texas A&M Dept. of Computer Science


Both my pastor's late model Corolla and my father's 1987 Stanza
have demonstrated the "falling door seals" problem.

             Daryl Biberdorf  N5GJM    d-biberdorf@tamu.edu
               + Sola Gratia + Sola Fide + Sola Scriptura

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102901
Subject: 1993 Honda Civic
From: <LIBEMC@BYUVM.BITNET>

I'd like to converse with anyone who has purchased a 1993 Honda
Civic about their experience.  I'm new to the car buying game
and would like to know what price I can expect to pay for a sedan
after bargaining.

Thanks in advance,

-- Ellen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102902
From: wl@cypress.com (Wilbur Luo/COMM)
Subject: Heard of these South Bay shops?

I need to bring on my VW Corrado for body work (I got hit). I was
wondering if anyone has heard of any of these South Bay body shops:

Akins Collision Center of Santa Clara - on Reed St
Auto West Collision - in San Jose
Los Gatos Acura
Royal Auto Body - in Sunnyvale

Thanks!

-W



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102903
From: alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.rist, another dealer service scam...

In article <1qk5m9$pbe@news.ysu.edu> ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) writes:
>>
>>I was worried about someone stealing my oil once also. I finally 
>>decided to just have my drain plug welded shut. It works great !
>>I figure that when I add three or four quarts when the oil light
>>comes on every month or so that it's just as good or better than
>>the old wives tale of changing the oil AND filter every 3000 miles.
>>Works for me, I must say. 
>>
>
>I did the same thing to my drain plug for the same reasons.  I was wondering
>how you filled your crankcase though as I welded my hood shut also out of fear
>that somebody might steal my air-filter.

Oh come on, Silly, all you have to do is cut a hole in your hood and 
put a tube there so you can get to the oil fill hole.  What do you
think all those big air intake things are for on those hot-rod cars?
They're just for looks only...little does anyone know, they provide
access to the oil-fill hole.

Well, over where we live, we have problems with vandals stealing 
people's wheels.  Those locking nuts didn't stop them.  So to be
safe and sure, I welded the lug nuts to my wheels together.  It
works, serious!  I haven't had my wheels stolen yet!
.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102904
From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1qh336INNfl5@CS.UTK.EDU> larose@austin.cs.utk.edu (Brian LaRose) writes:
>This just a warning to EVERYBODY on the net.  Watch out for
>folks standing NEXT to the road or on overpasses.   They can
>cause SERIOUS HARM to you and your car.  
>
>(just a cliff-notes version of my story follows)
>
>10pm last night, I was travelling on the interstate here in
>knoxville,  I was taking an offramp exit to another interstate
>and my wife suddenly screamed and something LARGE hit the side
>of my truck.  We slowed down, but after looking back to see the
>vandals standing there, we drove on to the police station.
>
>She did get a good look at the guy and saw him "cock his arm" with
>something the size of a cinderblock, BUT I never saw him. We are 
>VERY lucky the truck sits up high on the road; if it would have hit
>her window, it would have killed her. 
>
>The police are looking for the guy, but in all likelyhood he is gone. 
Stuff deleted...

I am sorry to report that in Southern California it was a sick sport
for a while to drop concrete blocks from the overpasses onto the
freeway.  Several persons were killed when said blocks came through
their windshields.  Many overpass bridges are now fenced, and they
have made it illegal to loiter on such bridges (as if that would stop
such people).  Yet many bridges are NOT fenced.  I always look up at a
bridge while I still have time to take evasive action even though this
*sport* has not reached us here in Fresno.
___________________________________________________________________
Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu
Photojournalism sequence, Department of Journalism
CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102905
From: klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <C5HHGM.1rM@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
| In article <1993Apr13.215605.26252@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
| >In article <1q4466INNb85@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
| >>
| >>It's a big aftermarket business.  Almost no cars come from the factory with
| >>vynal any more, and any fake "convertible" job _definitely_ came from some
| >>aftermarket place.  What amazes me is how much people are willing to pay for
| >>bad taste
| >
| >How about those really ugly fake wheel compartments stuck onto the
| >trunk or side (or both sides!) of some tacky luxury cars?
| 
| Some of 'em aren't fake (if you're talking about the Continental kit,
| named after the Lincoln Continental, the first car to sport one). I
| personally would _love_ to have a '56 T-Bird with a Continental kit
| (and the supercharged V-8 :-); that is one of the most beautiful
| cars ever built, IMHO.
| 
| 				James
| 

The Continental may have been the first "modern era" auto to mount the
spare on the rear of the car but it was hardly the first car to sport one.
Various mounting techniques for rear mounting the spare were quite common
in early automobiles, both US and Foreign.
--
Ken Franklin 	They say there's a heaven for people who wait
AMA     	And some say it's better but I say it ain't
GWRRA           I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
DoD #0126       The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102906
From: steve.dunham@uuserv.cc.utah.edu (STEVE LEE DUNHAM)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...


>While not exactly a service incident, I had a similar experience recently  
>when I bought a new truck.
>
>I had picked out the vehicle I wanted and after a little haggling we  
>agreed on a price. I wrote them a check for the down payment plus tax
>and license and told them I'd be back that evening to pick up the truck.  
>When I returned, I had to wait about an hour before the finance guy could  
>get to me. When I finally got in there, everything went smoothly until he  
>started adding up the numbers. He then discovered that they had  
>miscalculated the tax & license by about $150. 

This seems to be a popular scam with dealers.  Last month my brother bought 
a new Audi 90 series quatro from a local dealer.  They came back with the 
final price, tax and all, and he added it up for himself.  There happened to 
be an extra $300 tagged on under the tax part. He pointed out their error 
and asked them to re-think their addition.  They came back with the right 
price the next time.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102907
From: cs173sbw@sdcc5.ucsd.edu (cs173sbw)
Subject: RE: How is Cizeta V16T doing?



In article <crh.734864478@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Christian Huebner) writes:
>I can remember reading a track competition in some car-magazine, which
>featured the Testarossa, the Diablo and the V16T. The result was about
>the same I would have expected: The Cizeta was not only the slowest of
>the three,  but also dropped out halfway during it's test laps because 
>of smoking brakes. For a sportscar it showed ridiculous performance.
>
Hm... I find this hard to believe.  V16T weights about the same as
the Red Head, but it has hell lot more horse power.  Perhaps it's
due to pre-production glitches?  Well, to me, it still got the most
imposing styling among all the sports cars I have seen.

>Bye...
>
>Chris  crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de
>
>Ferrari F40 - Best sportscar ever built!
Personally, I don't like cars that rely on turbo power.  I guess everyone
has their favorite car.  


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102908
From: rkim@eecg.toronto.edu (Ryan Kim)
Subject: New break pads & exhausts after 96K km (60K mi) on '90 Maxima?


Hi, maybe someone can help me here...
I am looking to buy this 1990 Nissan Maxima GXE for CDN$14000 right now.
The car has 96000 km (or about 60000 miles) on it.
A typical mileage for 1990 cars seem to be about 70000 km (or about 43K mi).
The seller just informed me that when he brought the car in for certification
he was told that the front break pads and the exhausts had to be replaced
to meet the legal standards.  (He said he will replace the components before
selling the car to me.)

Being copmletely ignorant to the technical stuff on cars, I don't know
what this could mean...
Is 96K km about the time typical for replacing the above mentioned items?
Or is this an indication that the car was abused?
Would other things break down or have to be replaced soon?
The seller told me that he used the car on the highway a lot, but,
I don't know how to verify this...  I've seen the paint chipped away
in tiny dots in the front edge of the hood, though.

Although the Maxima is an excellent car and the car is very clean and
well kept, it's currently out of warranty
(a similarly priced '90 Accord with 70K km will have 2 years or 30K km
worth of warranty left) and I don't want to worry about paying for
any repair bills...
But, I also need a car for 5 people...  

When will the new Maxima come out, by the way?

I would very much appreciate your input in this.
Please reply by e-mail (preferred) or post in this newsgroup.
Thanks!

Ryan



========
Ryan Kim
University of Toronto, EECG, Computer Graphics    rkim@eecg.toronto.edu
"Do not weave between traffic cones at road works."
                                    - from the new British Highway Code
                                           (Toronto Star April 3, 1993)


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102909
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Instead of a Saturn SC2, What???

srihari@cirrus.com (Srihari Shoroff) writes:

>In <Ifn=sPO00iV18_A8NZ@andrew.cmu.edu> jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason M. Roth) writes:

>>>R&T had an article on cars of the SC1 ilk and they liked the Civic Ex,
>>>the Escort GT and the MX-3 best of all, and the SC1 was way down the
>>>list except for braking.

>>I just looked at that article; first of all, this summary is inaccurate;
>>of 10 cars, the SC1 was 5th, right behind these mentioned and the Suzuki
>>Swift (!). As has been pointed out, it was a semi-silly comparison; the
>>Saturn was at least $500 cheaper than the MX-3 and Escort (admittedly
>>negligible, but an issue), and $1500 (!)less than the Honda. The stated
>>goal was a base under $12k; the Honda was $500 over, while the SC2 at
>>the same price was excluded. In other words, they let the best Honda
>>play, but not the best Saturn.  Note that the Saturn did beat the $13k

>I dont know about the car comparison but as far as the price goes rest
>assured that the street prices for the MX-3 and Escort and (maybe) even
>the Honda will be lesser than that of the Saturn you're talking about.
>All price comparisons I've seen are based on MSRP and of course the
>saturn dealer will sell the car for sticker price whereas the others
>will do it way below sticker.

>Srihari
	
	I'd hate to rehash an old thread, but...  Would someone kindly quote
a prices that a dealer quotes for a Civic EX, and Escort GT.  Also, I'm a
assuming that the MX-3 was the V-6, so go ahead and look that up, too.  If 
someone has one of those yearly buyers' guides that give a low quote price,
please quote them, too.  Then find the the SC1 base price.

Thanks.

-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102910
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: Re: LH Workmanship

In article <1ql178INN51q@tamsun.tamu.edu> dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.203750.25764@walter.bellcore.com> jchen@ctt.bellcore.com writes:
>>I just visited the NY Auto Show, and saw two LH cars on the floor: Eagle 
>>Vision and Dodge Intrepid. 
>>at a competitive price.  ...
>>
>>Unfortunately, the workmanship is quite disappointing. On BOTH cars,
>>the rubber seals around the window and door fell off. It turns out
>>the seals are just big grooved rubber band. It goes on just by pressing
>
>
>"Through a single data point, you can draw any line you want."
>-- Dr. S. Bart Childs, Professor, Texas A&M Dept. of Computer Science
>
Wrong. I got two points, which were the 100% sample space on the show
floor. By the previous quote, I guess I may drow a determinstic line?
>
>Both my pastor's late model Corolla and my father's 1987 Stanza
>have demonstrated the "falling door seals" problem.
>
As unfair as it may seem, the difference between Chrysler and Toyota is
that Chrysler needs to prove that it can build quality cars. Toyota can
afford make a few small mistakes without hurting the image.

After all, door seal failing on a 6-year old Stanza is not comparable to 
the same problem on a brand new Intreprid.

Jason Chen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102911
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NISSAN (Really Station Wagon)

In article <Apr16.000710.27408@engr.washington.edu> eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>
>this week's autoweek talks about how wagons are getting back in vogue.
>i wouldn't mind an audi s4 wagon (great stealth value) but you'll
>never catch me dead in a minivan!

even a minivan based on viper running gear?

-teddy
p.s. i think the audi S4 gets a 4.2 liter V-8 next year.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102912
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Do trains/busses have radar?

In article <1993Apr15.111910.1@bronco.fnal.gov> colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick 'Open VMS 4ever' Colombo) writes:
>
>I don't know about trains, but I've saw a sign on the back of a
>Greyhound bus that warns you that your radar detector may be set off.
>It doesn't explain why, but it does set off my radar detector.

Because Greyhound has apparently gotten around to installing their
RADAR collision-prevention system. They use RADAR to monitor how close
other vehicles are and how fast their relative speeds are, and signals
a warning to the driver if they're coming up on something too fast
or are getting too close.

This is all I remember from the news reports a few months back; at
the time, they were only talking about the possibility of installing
the system. (They didn't mention how it worked in bumper-to-bumper
traffic, or how it discriminated between a Camaro approaching at
120mph and ye olde bridge support in the median being approached 
at 60mph on a curve.)

I do recall something about progressive stages of warnings, from
flashing lights to audible warnings--ie, it goes from a red "Too
close" light to hysterically screaming "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!"  :-)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102913
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Subject: Re: MGBs and the real world

derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes:

>>People who bought MGB`s bought them because they were an open topped sportscar
>>and embodied what people thought they should for an old fashioned traditional
>>brit. sportscar - not because they were great at anything.

>Pretty much like the people who buy the Mazda MX-5 (Miata) today.  Small 
>fun and you can fool yourself (and a lot of other people) that you have the 
>performance of many far superior (and much more expensive) performnace cars.

I have been for a fairly hard run in an MX5, what they lack in power they
surely make up for in handling.  Great for back streets with heaps of corners.
They are a fairly light car with a low center of gravity and a quite free
revving DOHC engine, a fun car.  Have you driven a TURBO converted
MX5?  Now they are starting to perform!  I've often thought a Mazda rotary
would go well in the XM5 too....anyone done it?

Regards Scott.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102914
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr15.173951.20173@icf.hrb.com> jek@icf.hrb.com (Joe Karolchik) writes:
>(I deleted your name because I don't want to sound accusative in my remark)
>> 
>> On another occasion, on my way from Texas to Florida, I had stopped in 
>> a small motel
>> for the night in a small town somewhere in Florida. About 5 youths were 
>> disturbing my
>> car, setting off the alarm and challenging me to come out. When I and 
>> another tenant
>> walked out with a 357 Magnum and a 45 automatic respectively, they vanished. 
>> Needless to say, I immediately packed-up and left.
>> 
>> Watch out for car-jacking and staged accidents. They can be deadly!
>> 
>I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if 
>you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your
>alarm?  I can think of worse things in the world.  Glad you got out of there
>before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.

If I hear someone screwing with my car (ie, setting off the alarm) and
taunting me to come out, you can be damn sure that my Colt Delta Elite
will also be coming with me. It's not the screwing with the car that'd
get them shot, it's the potential physical danger. If they're
taunting like that, it's very possible that they also intend to rob
me and/or do other physically harmful things.

If they're just screwing around, no harm done. If they're bent on
mayhem, they will receive the cure for their lead deficiency; a
180gr. injection @1200 fps...there's no telling what today's violent
criminals will do. Death may be the most pleasant outcome...

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102915
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: New break pads & exhausts after 96K km (60K mi) on '90 Maxima?

In article <1993Apr16.000601.14223@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> rkim@eecg.toronto.edu (Ryan Kim) writes:
>
>Hi, maybe someone can help me here...
>I am looking to buy this 1990 Nissan Maxima GXE for CDN$14000 right now.

So its an automatic? Don't know if US spec=CDN spec. for Maximas.

>The car has 96000 km (or about 60000 miles) on it.
>A typical mileage for 1990 cars seem to be about 70000 km (or about 43K mi).
>The seller just informed me that when he brought the car in for certification
>he was told that the front break pads and the exhausts had to be replaced
>to meet the legal standards.  (He said he will replace the components before
>selling the car to me.)
>
>Being copmletely ignorant to the technical stuff on cars, I don't know
>what this could mean...
>Is 96K km about the time typical for replacing the above mentioned items?
>Or is this an indication that the car was abused?

If it is the first set of brake pads on front, then this is fine. My car
eats a set every 15k miles or so. The fact that he is replacing the
muffler too is also ok.

>Would other things break down or have to be replaced soon?

The mileage is fairly low - but typical fwd stuff is CV joints. Check
the maintenance records with the manufacturers requirements for valve
adjustments, timing belt changes and so on.

The 60k mile service is often expensive, so make sure he has done everything.


>The seller told me that he used the car on the highway a lot, but,
>I don't know how to verify this...  I've seen the paint chipped away
>in tiny dots in the front edge of the hood, though.
>
Well, this is one of the commonly cited methods for identifying a
car with highway miles. 
Might check the gas pedal wear too. Ask him how many sets of tires he
has been through. A highway car might have squeezed by on 2 sets,
a hard driven car 6-10 sets.


>Although the Maxima is an excellent car and the car is very clean and
>well kept, it's currently out of warranty
>(a similarly priced '90 Accord with 70K km will have 2 years or 30K km
>worth of warranty left) and I don't want to worry about paying for
>any repair bills...

Well, the Maxima should be pretty reliable - but if its out of warranty
you should get it checked out by someone knowledgeable first. Stuff
for Japanese cars can be expensive.

>But, I also need a car for 5 people...  
>
>When will the new Maxima come out, by the way?

1995 model year, I believe. 
>
>I would very much appreciate your input in this.
>Please reply by e-mail (preferred) or post in this newsgroup.

Craig
>Thanks!
>
>Ryan
>
>
>
>========
>Ryan Kim
>University of Toronto, EECG, Computer Graphics    rkim@eecg.toronto.edu
>"Do not weave between traffic cones at road works."
>                                    - from the new British Highway Code
>                                           (Toronto Star April 3, 1993)
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102916
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <1993Apr15.223029.23340@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>In article <C5JnK3.JKt@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>>	Wasn't the original intent of the reverse lights for the driver, so he
>>could see where he was backing up???  Although reverse lights on the sides
>
>No. reverse lights are to warn others that you are backing up. They
>aren't bright enough to (typically) see by without the brake and tail
>lights. 

I don't know where you live, but I couldn't get out of my driveway
at night without reverse lights. As someone said, out in the country
you notice neat little things like stars and the difference between
day and night. At night around my house (which is amongst a forest of
rather tall oaks) it is DARK, except for nights with full moons.
Reverse lights illuminate my path very well when backing up; I greatly
prefer cars with them to cars without operational reverse lights.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102917
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Subject: Re: How is Cizeta V16T doing?

> cs173sbw@sdcc5.ucsd.edu (cs173sbw) writes:
> 
>>Does anyone know what happpened to the venerable V16T!?  Has Claudio
>>done any enhancement to it?  Are there any pictures of this beast I
>>can ftp down somewhere?
>>THanks
>>p.s.  Better, seen any RC model of this beauty? :)

--AutoWeek had an article about the car within the past six weeks.
  It was the issue with the Diablo VT AWD on the cover.  Naturally, I
  don't remember the date of the issue offhand, but I can check it if
  anyone is interested.  

--Aamir Qazi

-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102918
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Subject: Re: BMW 3 series for 94?

From article <eabu288-140493210752@dialin33635.slip.nts.uci.edu>, by eabu288@orion.oac.uci.edu (Alvin):
>
> Is there going to be a BMW 328 in 1994?

--Could be.  Isn't the 2.5 liter six supposed to be enlarged to 2.8 liters
  in the not-too-distant future?

--Aamir Qazi

-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102919
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Subject: Re: Instead of a Saturn SC2, What???

From article <1qkkl5INNbvo@hp-col.col.hp.com>, by theckel@col.hp.com (Tim Heckel):
> For those that are interested I got my fully optioned (Air, ABS,
> sunroof) '92 SE-R in September 1991 for $13,555 in Sacramento, CA. It
> was one of the 1st '92s sold, few of the dealers had any, no local
> dealer had an ABS equipped SE-R.  I went straight to the fleet manager
> at the dealership I liked, told him what I wanted, made him aware that I
> knew what his price should be.  He called me back with exactly what I
> wanted from a dealer 125mi away, I took delivery the next day. 

--When I was selling Nissans last summer, I sold a '92 SE-R in early August
  when its supply was getting quite scarce.  The car was black with ABS, 
  Value Option Pkg, and power moonroof.  I sold it for $12,900 plus tax.
  Naturally, my manager didn't really care to sell one of the most desirable
  SE-R's for virtually no profit (to the best of my knowledge).....

--Aamir Qazi

-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102920
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

>
>No. reverse lights are to warn others that you are backing up. They
>aren't bright enough to (typically) see by without the brake and tail
>lights. 
>
>
>Craig

Perhaps instead of this silly argument about what backup lights
are for, couldn't we agree that they serve the dual purpose of
letting people behind your car know that you have it in reverse
and that they can also light up the area behind your car while
you're backing up so you can see?

Backup lamps on current models are much brighter than they used
to be on older cars. Those on my Taurus Wagon are quite bright
enough to illuminate a good area behind the car, and they're 
MUCH brighter than those on my earlier cars from the 60s and 70s. 

Insofar as Vettes having side backup lights, look at a '92 or '93
model (or perhaps a year or two earlier too) and you'll see
red side marker lamps and white side marker lamps both near the
car's hindquarters.  Those aren't just white reflectors. 

Harv

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102921
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: station wagons (was  Open letter to NISSAN

In article <1993Apr16.052013.23517@leland.Stanford.EDU> tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>>but you'll
>>never catch me dead in a minivan!

>even a minivan based on viper running gear?

hmmmm.. not sure, since no such beast exists.. i can tell you another
though..  you won't catch me dead in a GMC Syclone or Typhoon either,
1000 bhp or not.. not even the fact that Clint Eastwood has one.  just
my taste,  no rational reasons for it.

>-teddy
>p.s. i think the audi S4 gets a 4.2 liter V-8 next year.

CAR just tested the S4 wagon with 5 banger and 6 speed manual.  Rave
review except for Servotronic..  Audi is trying to recoup the
development costs for the V8, and since the V8 is not selling well,
they are sticking it into the 100 series cars.. Neat marketing trick,
eh?  yeah, a 100 V8-32v wouldn't be a bad idea as competition for the
upcoming bimmer 530/540i would it?  maybe they can use a 3.6 liter
version to avoid conflicts with the v8 model.. then strip off all the
luxo-garbage.  let the S4 remain with the flared arches and fat tires
to go fight with the M5.... maybe turn up the boost a wee bit to bump
bhp up to say 450 or so.. :-) while keeping the 100 V8 with mercedes
500E style subtlety.

blah blah blah....


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102922
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: MGBs and the real world

In article <1qlg02$iu6@uniwa.uwa.oz.au> scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher) writes:
>Have you driven a TURBO converted
>MX5?  Now they are starting to perform!  I've often thought a Mazda rotary
>would go well in the XM5 too....anyone done it?

no, but somebody's dropped a ford 302 V-8 into the miata, somewhat
reminiscent of the shelby cobra.  the car's obviously not as nimble
as before, but it's supposed to have a near 50/50 weight distribution
and handle very well.  i'd sure love to drive one.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102923
From: dye@lachman.com (Ken R. Dye )
Subject: Re: Feedback requested on lowering '66 Mustang

In article <X3XZ2B2w165w@vllyoak.resun.com> jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry) writes:
>I have found a kit advertised for lowering the front end of an early 
>mustang.  Installation envolves moving the upper A-arm and installation 
>of a wedge shaped spacer between the A-arm and ball joint.  Apparently, 
>Shelby Mustangs did a similair modification, but left out the spacer.
>
>I would be interested in feedback, pro or con, on such a modification.

	I'm no mustang head, but don't the early ones have a simple
strut suspension (that is, with no upper A-arm)?  Just a strut
going down to a lower control arm (single bushing: not an A-arm), with a
tension/compression rod locating it in the forward/backward direction?

	Anyway, simple strut suspensions like this can be lowered just by using
shorter springs, cutting the springs, lowering the spring perch or shortening
the strut below the perch.  In each of these cases, the suspension geometry
will suffer because the lower control arms will not be at the
intended angle.  A spacer placed between control arm and the bottom
of the strut (roughly the height of the reduction) will restore
the suspension geometry.  IMHO, the kit that includes the spacer
is the only way to go...

--Ken
-- 
Ken R. Dye				an optimist is a guy		 |
Lachman Technology, Inc., Chicago	that has never had		 | 
(708) 505-9555 x341			much experience			 |
dye@lachman.com							archy	 |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102924
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


In article <C5H7qz.KyA@boi.hp.com>, wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii) writes:
|> Brian LaRose (larose@austin.cs.utk.edu) wrote:
|> 
|> : I never saw the guy.  The police said they thought the motive was to
|> : hit the car, have us STOP to check out the damage, and then JUMP US,
|> : and take the truck.  
|> : 
|> : PLEASE BE AWARE OF FOLKS.  AND FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, PLEASE DON'T STOP!!!!
|> 
|> Sad.  This sort of thing is on the rise across the country.  South Florida
|> is getting a lot of national TV coverage on the subject where vacationers
|> are being attacked (and some killed) in schemes similar to this.

Make that worldwide coverage. I know numerous people who were planning
holidays to the Florida, and have now chosen another (non-US)
destination. You expect this sort of thing, perhaps, in third world
countries - but not the US!

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102925
From: david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <5214@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <chrissC587qB.D1B@netcom.com> chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester) writes:
>
>>WAGON, which I have heard is somehow slightly faster than the Coupe.
>
>	Wagon has an automatic, it's slower.
>
Could be due to the rear-end ratio also.  

Usually automatics have different rear-ends than manuals, from
my limited experience anyways.

David
>
>


-- 
David W. Hwang, M.D.           //    University of Michigan Medical School
1050 Wall Street, Suite 10C   //           Telephone: 313/663-5557
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48105    //    Internet: david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102926
From: thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang)
Subject: The Kuebelwagen??!!          

	Sorry for the mis-spelling, but I forgot how to spell it after 
my series of exams and NO-on hand reference here.

	Is it still possible to get those cute WWII VW Jeep-wanna-be's?
A replica would be great I think.  

							-TKH '93

------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can convert a C=128 to a C128T, I can do anything... NOT!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102927
From: etjet@levels.unisa.edu.au
Subject: Aussie needs info on car shows



Hi from Australia,

I am a car enthusiast in Australia.
 
I am particularly interested in American Muscle cars of the 
1960s and 1970s. ALL MAKES: AMC, Ford, Chrysler/Mopar, GM.

I will be in the USA for 6 weeks from May 2nd to -June 14 1993.

Chicago: Sun May 2 -Thursday May 6
Denver:  Friday May 7 - Sunday May 9
Austin, Texas: Monday May 10- Friday May 21
Oklahoma City: Friday May 21 - Monday May 24
Anaheim, California: Tuesday May 25-Thursday May 27
Las Vegas, Nevada:  Friday May 28- Sunday May 30
Grand Canion, Monday May 31 - Tuesday June 1
Las Angeles, San Diego and vicinity: Wednesday June 3-Sunday June 6 June
South Lake Tahoe, Cal: Sunday June 6 - Wednesday June 9
Reno: Thursday June 10
San Fransisco: Thursday June 10 - Sunday June 13


I was wondering if anyone could send me any information of 
car shows, swap meets, drag meets, model car shows etc. during this period.
Can anybody tell me when the Pomona Swap meet is on this year?

Also, any places to visit (eg. car museums, private collections, 
your collection? etc. Any bit of information is appreciated!

I am also interested in finding some model cars (scale Models). 
I am intersted in 1968-1974 AMC cars. Of particular interest is:
1968-1970 AMX
1968-1974 Javelin
1969 SCRAMBLER
1970 Rebel Machine
and others

If you have any kits, plastics, diecast etc and are interested in selling them,
tell me, I will be interested.

I can also send/bring you models of Australian High performance cars if 
you are interested.


Please reply by email to: johnt@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au


Thanks,

John Tsimbinos 



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102928
From: etjet@levels.unisa.edu.au
Subject: Aussie needs info on USA car shows/swap meets



Hi from Australia,

I am a car enthusiast in Australia.
 
I am particularly interested in American Muscle cars of the 
1960s and 1970s. ALL MAKES: AMC, Ford, Chrysler/Mopar, GM.

I will be in the USA for 6 weeks from May 2nd to -June 14 1993.

Chicago: Sun May 2 -Thursday May 6
Denver:  Friday May 7 - Sunday May 9
Austin, Texas: Monday May 10- Friday May 21
Oklahoma City: Friday May 21 - Monday May 24
Anaheim, California: Tuesday May 25-Thursday May 27
Las Vegas, Nevada:  Friday May 28- Sunday May 30
Grand Canion, Monday May 31 - Tuesday June 1
Las Angeles, San Diego and vicinity: Wednesday June 3-Sunday June 6 June
South Lake Tahoe, Cal: Sunday June 6 - Wednesday June 9
Reno: Thursday June 10
San Fransisco: Thursday June 10 - Sunday June 13


I was wondering if anyone could send me any information of 
car shows, swap meets, drag meets, model car shows etc. during this period.
Can anybody tell me when the Pomona Swap meet is on this year?

Also, any places to visit (eg. car museums, private collections, 
your collection? etc. Any bit of information is appreciated!

I am also interested in finding some model cars (scale Models). 
I am intersted in 1968-1974 AMC cars. Of particular interest is:
1968-1970 AMX
1968-1974 Javelin
1969 SCRAMBLER
1970 Rebel Machine
and others

If you have any kits, plastics, diecast etc and are interested in selling them,
tell me, I will be interested.

I can also send/bring you models of Australian High performance cars if 
you are interested.


Please reply by email to: johnt@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au


Thanks,

John Tsimbinos 



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102929
From: Eric_Thomas@mindlink.bc.ca (Eric Thomas)
Subject: 1962 thunderbird

I just bought a 1962 T-BIRD and would like any info on a club
in and around the the B.C. coast.
                                 Eric Thomas


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102930
From: bjones@TrentU.CA (NAME)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr16.091938.6821@hasler.ascom.ch>, kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh) writes:
>
>In article <C5H7qz.KyA@boi.hp.com>, wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii) writes:
>|> Brian LaRose (larose@austin.cs.utk.edu) wrote:
>|> 
>|> : I never saw the guy.  The police said they thought the motive was to
>|> : hit the car, have us STOP to check out the damage, and then JUMP US,
>|> : and take the truck.  
>|> : 
>|> : PLEASE BE AWARE OF FOLKS.  AND FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, PLEASE DON'T STOP!!!!
>|> 
>|> Sad.  This sort of thing is on the rise across the country.  South Florida
>|> is getting a lot of national TV coverage on the subject where vacationers
>|> are being attacked (and some killed) in schemes similar to this.
>
>Make that worldwide coverage. I know numerous people who were planning
>holidays to the Florida, and have now chosen another (non-US)
>destination. You expect this sort of thing, perhaps, in third world
>countries - but not the US!

>In response to this and other articles that have been written on this 
subject, I would like to say that it is not just a US problem.  In southern 
Ontario last summer there were several instances along the 401 where people 
(mainly truckers) were shot at from overpasses.  There are many sick people 
out there and it makes you wonder what the worlds coming to.
>kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102931
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Subject: Re: JEEP WRANGLER - OPINI

In article 4DB@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu, mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri) writes:
>How do I square this with a respectable resale value?  Easy- if it's expensive
> to buy new, it's gonna be expensive to buy used.
>===============================
>A patently false statement. Try this logic on an Alfa 164. In fact, 
>marketplace has a wonderufl mechanism to "adjust" the value of the cars that 
>are overpriced by the manufacturer. If it is expensive to buy new it is NOT 
>necessarily expnesive to buy used. In fact, it could be real cheap to buy 
>used, depending what that car is of course. Note that I do not question your 
>statements on the reliability of Wrangler. I have never owned one, driven one 
>or been in one (I do love to have one though!).


 What I don't understand is why 
>this apparent neglect of quality for so many years has not filtered down into 
>the used market.Is Jeep so intoxicating, so irresistable and so seductive as 
>to make its purchase a fatal attraction?.
>
>Bijan



Yep.  They are popular vehicles.  You don't see a lot of previous model year
ones sitting on dealer's lots for any lenghth of time after the new ones are
out.  The things sell, they are popular.

Because they are popular, and high-priced new, they are high price used, very
simple.

I knew they were overpriced when I bought it... I knew they had a terrible 
reliability record when I bought it.  But I didn't expect anything like I
got, especially with a dealer network unable to repair it.  Personal experience
has quickly cured me of my infatuation with the machine.

Dave

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102932
From: dalibor@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Stefan Dalibor)
Subject: Re: Too fast

jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:

>There are a few things to keep in mind about Europe, since you brought
>it up.  My Autobahn knowledge is admittedly second-hand, but I believe
>the following to be true:

My knowledge about driving in the U.S. is also second-hand, but I think I can
correct your statements about our Autobahn:

>1. Drivers are much better disciplined in Europe than they are here.

Oh yeah, that would be paradise... in fact, you can forget it. From all I've
heard from my U.S. relatives, drivers esp. here in Germany are much more agg-
ressive, but not disciplined. One of my relatives, a L.A. resident, hired a car
at the Nuernberg airport and went about 18 miles to our home. He said then that
he grew about 1 year older during this ride and swore he'd never drive a car in
Germany again (this was in 1982 and he kept his promise - the situation now is
even worse as effect of the increased volume of traffic).
What you mean by `better disciplined' should perhaps be considered `cautious due
to fear': 
When driving around here, you always *have* to take into consideration that the
majority of the other drivers absolutely relies on you: They expect that nobody
fails or sleeps; many of them exploit this by driving as fast as their car can
go (of course only where that is allowed, you might think - dream on :).
So any mistake you make is a very high risk to your health - and if you're ex-
posed to such a situation from your very first day as a driver, you learn to
handle it - or you lose... 
That's the way I and most people I know experience our traffic situation - 
whether you think this is pleasant or efficient is up to you; I think we handle
a very high volume of traffic and that at high speeds with modest (compared to
the volume) and decreasing rates of lethal accidents - OTOH, more and more
people (esp. women) dislike driving (because they feel overtaxed and threatened)
and each accident is one accident too much.

>2. The roads comprising the Autobahn are much better designed than
>   they are here, and usually include animal fences.  This makes them
>   far more predictable than most US highways.

Better designed and maintained, may be - but animal fences are very rare. Auto-
bahnen and many other streets have guard-rails (I hope that's the right word - 
a plank made from thick steel sheet fixed on uprights; it's about 2 feet high);
those guard-rails are designed for keeping vehicles on the road. Smaller animals
can crawl under the plank, bigger ones can easily jump over it. The point is
that esp. larger animals are very rare in Germany; they tend also to be very
timid. Accidents caused by animals are a neglegible danger.

>3. Not all of Europe is the Autobahn.  Most places in Europe have
>   speed limits that aren't out-of-line with what we used to have in
>   the US -- if my friends weren't lying to me they're typically not
>   much higher than 120km/h.

You're right (there are speed linits even on the major part of the Autobahn) -
but the attitude towards driving (see above) seems to be very similar to that
in Germany (I've been in France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, Spain, Belgium,
the Netherlands) - besides that, you really can't rely on the residents abiding
the local speed limits. I've got quite a lot of practise (~120k miles) and I'm
used to travel at 130 mph (FYI, with a car even smaller than a rabbit), but I
consider driving on the highways round Paris or Milano really a thrill...

>I strongly suspect you won't find a lot of Rabbit owners doing 120mph
>(nearly 200km/h) on the Autobahn, but I could be wrong. ...

Sorry, but you'll find quite a lot rabbit-class-car (or even smaller, mine is a
Peugeot 205) owners going that fast; small cars with much HP are very `hip' over
here - and most people buying such cars aren't afraid to let them run.

>                                                      ...  Some people
>have no respect for their own lives.

I disagree; the size or weight of a car is rather irrelevant. Formula-1 cars
weigh less than 700 kg and the drivers have a chance to survive accidents at
130 mph or higher - OTOH when crashing against a solid object at 130 mph,
it makes no difference whether you sit in a Porsche, a Mercedes, a tank or on
a bicycle: Your're dead.

Bye,
Stefan
---
Stefan Dalibor (dalibor@immd3.uni-erlangen.de)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...And now for the next case in Kangaroo Court, I accuse you of being the
reincarnation of Adolf Hitler.  I don't think that mere denials will be
sufficient -- you will have to submit to examinations by a parapsychologist
that I personally select..."
Perry Metzger (pmetzger@shearson.com) in Article 2074 in news.admin.policy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102933
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

>I too was puzzled by this obvious untruth. What I think is going on is that
>Nissan claims that the Altima is "the best selling new car namelplate in
>the US" (I think I have this near verbatim). Lee Iaccoca's statistics
>dept. would have been proud of that sentence.


Note that the Corolla/Prism are also new designs... but hey are not new 
"nameplates."  I guess Nissan doesn't even sell as many Altimas as
Toyota does Corollas, or there would be no "nameplate" qualifier.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102934
From: sjp@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Steve Phillips)
Subject: Re: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together!

Give out the address, I'll drive by and take a look myself, then post.


--
Stephen Phillips
Atlanta Response Center
Atlanta, Ga.
Home of the Braves!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102935
From: jackd@sad.hp.com (Jack Dauler)
Subject: Re: Tires for Ford Ranger Pickup

   I have had good luck with my Ranger and Yokohama 371 S+M tires.
   The tires have been wearing well and even the few times i have hauled
   heavy loads they have done well.     

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102936
From: damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio)
Subject: Re: Ford and the automobile

rwong@eis.calstate.edu (Russel Wong) writes:

>Hello, my name is Russell Wong and I am doing a research project on Henry
>Ford and his automobile.  I need information on whether Ford is
>partially responsible for all of the car accidents 

Ya, he cut me off on 128 the other day, he drives like a crazy person.
I'd have to say he's responsible for most accidents, they really should
pull his licence.

-Steve


7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7
               Alan Kulwicki    1992 Winston Cup Champion
                              1954 - 1993
7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102937
From: chuck@eos.ncsu.edu (Chuck Kesler)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT)

In article <1993Apr20.002651.20797@sco.com> nathanp@sco.COM (Nathan) writes:
>
>"Jeremy G. Mereness" <zonker+@CMU.EDU> says:
>>
>>Can anyone offer any opinions of the Ford Probe... ala how they do in
>>the long run, repair records, reliability, mileage, etc?
>>
>>I am fixing to buy a car in the next few months aiming toward something
>>a little bigger than a typical small car and with a little more power. I
>>am considering the MX-6, Probe, Accord, Corolla, and the 240SX. 
...
>I bought a '93 Probe GT with the PEP 263A last July (now at 9500 miles)
>after debating over the Sentra SE-R/NX2000, MX6, MR-2, Stealth, Prelude, 
>and Celica.
...
>The car design is different than earlier years, so it's too early to see its
>reliability so far.  For what it's worth, my comments:
>
>My dislikes:
>Shutting door with windows up from inside rarely makes good wind seal.

Some other owners on the ford-probe@world.std.com mailing list have commented 
about this problem, but I haven't seen it happen on my 3 month old 
'93 Probe GT.  I think this may be something that Ford has corrected since 
the initial batch of cars.  Also, someone said that Ford has issued a 
service bulletin to inform dealers about how to correct this problem, so you 
may be able to get your dealer to fix it.

>Headlights have "stuck" up a few times (weather?)
>air conditioning broke ~4000 miles (pressure cycling switch)
>condensation around rear washer fluid container doesn't drain completely.

Haven't seen any of these problems, nor have I seen these mentioned on the
mailing list, so these might just be having bad luck with these.

>crammed engine; little hope for do-it-yourselfers (typical)

Definitely!

>parts somewhat more expensive than normal Ford parts
>underside plastic doesn't like sharp driveways and speedbumps (typical).
>assembly gripes: tape on radiator, screw fell out of dash, seat seams not 
>stitched properly.  Hopefully just a fluke.

No problems like these either.  I haven't been able to find any obvious 
places where they screwed up.

>Ford only gives 1 key with the car.  C'mon Ford, spend an extra few pennies!

Hmmm!  I got two keys with my car.  Something tells me you got stiffed by
your dealer on this.  (Actually, if you count the "credit card" key that 
came in the owner's binder, I got 3 keys, but since the credit card key
doesn't have any teeth cut in it yet, I guess I won't count it. :-))

>Rear hatch has no padding on corners when up.  I'm waiting for the day when
>I bash my head on the corner.
>horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in center (personal preference)

The latter is probably because of the air bag.  It's pretty much takes up
all the space where you'd expect to find the horn.

Speaking of the horn, I was surprised to find that the Probe comes with one
of those nice 'merican sounding horns instead of the Japanese sounding kind.
The previous Probes had Japanese horns.

>Tires fling dirt/mud onto side of car 

Yeah, not very badly, but enough to be annoying sometimes.

>My Likes:
>engine (design/valves/sounds/smoothness/power/mileage/torque) -- definitely #1
>handling (very good for FWD; understeer only at limits)
>transmission (the 5 speed is a must)
>usable instrumentation (lovely readable analog everywhere)
>Very little torque steer at full power (much better than the '90 SHO I drive)
>stability at 100+mph (high gearing though)
>low cowl (good visibility in front)
>Heated outside mirrors (nice in fog, never tested in freezing weather)
>ABS/Air bag (see above)
>rear seats fold down (I have few rear seat passengers so a trunk not important)
>No shake/rattle noises when going over bumps/potholes (still!)
>Tires: 225/55VR16 Goodyear Eagles (70% left; hoping for 30K :-)

I agree strongly with all of the above, especially about the engine.  The
interior is very, very nice too.  Very pleasing to the eye, and ergonomically
sound.

...
>I drive it to and from work
>each day on relatively smooth roads, and most noticable thing is that the
>Probe's suspension doesn't like potholes.  When you test drive one, find a 
>potholed road somewhere around town and see if the jarring you get is 
>tolerable.

Yes, this car's stiff suspension isn't for everyone.  I personally like it,
but if you find it a little harsh but otherwise like the car, I'd strongly
suggest looking into the MX-6.

>If you have 3+ passengers, by all means bring them along too.  They'll find
>that they have no room in the back and you'll find that the car rides
>differently (if that's "better" is up to you).  

The problem with the back seat is that there's no leg room.  Plenty of 
head room, though.  Shorter people fit back there without any complaints,
so long as the seat they are sitting behind is pulled forward a bit to 
give them a place to put their feet.

>Also, there's a lot of glass
>around you which I wasn't expecting; the temperature inside the car gets pretty
>hot in the summer.  My back seat passengers (now very few) complain about
>the lack of ventilation; you may want to consider that when combined with
>the heat.

The power moonroof can greatly improve the ventilation throughout the car. :-)
I really enjoy the moonroof, by the way, but then I've always been a sucker
for open air driving.  No leakage problems or anything like that...yet!

>I've heard that the exhaust system has trouble, but mine works fine.

I haven't heard about this one.  I know that some of the very early Probes
('89 and maybe '90) had problems with prematurely rusting mufflers (which
Ford will replace at no charge), but I haven't heard about anything like
this concerning the '93 Probes.

I haven't had any real trouble with this car outside of a CV joint boot
that was leaking, but the dealer took care of that promptly, and even
gave me a free rental car for the day and a half that I was without my
car.  I was quite happy with the way they handled...especially considering
that I was expecting the worst from them!

From what I've heard, it sounds like Ford/Mazda had some QC problems with 
the Probe (and probably MX-6) when they first went into production, but 
I think these problems have mostly been corrected at this point.  That's
almost always to be expected with a completely new car like this, though.

Hope this helps,

-chuck-
-- 
   Chuck Kesler                     /|<  Internet:   chuck@eos.ncsu.edu
   Unix Systems Programmer           |   US Mail:    Box 7901, NCSU Campus 
   Engineering Computer Operations   |               Raleigh, NC 27695 USA
   North Carolina State University   |   Phone:      +1 919 515 2458

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102938
From: kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner)
Subject: Sticky Lock on Tailgate



My 1988 Toyota 4Runner has a rolldown rear window with a keylock
switch.  It sticky on me.  Yesterday it was tough to get the
key to work and it also happened to stick on in the up direction
so the stalled motor was powered all night killing the battery.

I'd like to try to lubricate the lock switch. What should I lubricate
the lock with?

email please, 

thanx, Ken.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't drink American corporate swill.  Support you local micro-brewery." -me
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102939
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: Renting from Alamo	

Hello netters!

I'm visiting the US (I'm from Sweden) in August. I will probably rent a Chevy
Beretta from Alamo. I've been quoted $225 for a week/ $54 for additional days. 
This would include free driving distance, but not local taxes (Baltimore). 
They also told me all insurance thats necessary is included, but I doubt that,
 'cause a friend rented a car last year and it turned out he needed a lot more
insurance than what's included in the base price. But on the other hand he didn't
rent it from Alamo.

Does anyone have some info on this?

Is $225 a rip-off? 
Probability that I'll be needing more insurance?
Is the beretta a good rental car?

Thanx

Markus


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102940
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

nancy@hayduke (Nancy Feagans) writes:
>Ashtrays and cigarette lighters.  These should be an *option*.

GM, at least, is heading in that direction.  One of the post-sale
questions they asked me was if I'd like the choice of a cigarette
liter or an accessory plug, and another whether I'd like the choice of
an ashtray or a cup holder.

The '93 Geo Storms have the cigarette lighter vs accessory plug option
(which did not exist in the '92 I bought) -- I'm not sure about the
ash tray vs cup holder.  It's a step in the right direction.

The ashtray does make a convenient change-holder so it's not
completely useless.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102941
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: No-Haggle Deals...Save $$???

You can be sure they wouldn't do it if it wasn't to their advantage.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102942
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT)

In article <1993Apr20.124228.5357@ncsu.edu> chuck@eos.ncsu.edu (Chuck Kesler) writes:
>>Rear hatch has no padding on corners when up.  I'm waiting for the day when
>>I bash my head on the corner.
>>horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in center (personal preference)
>
>The latter is probably because of the air bag.  It's pretty much takes up
>all the space where you'd expect to find the horn.
>

All Toyotas have airbags with a real horn. Come on, how hard can it
be to put a little pressure plate there. I hope Toyota doesn't follow
everyone else and make the horns little buttons that I wouldn't want
to fumble for.

john

-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102943
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article <C5r43y.F0D@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
>I guess I wasn't clear enough here. I said the roads WERE designed for 
>speeds of 80 or so and still be safe. The current 55-65 will add a saftey
>margin.

	They were designed for speeds of upwards of 80 - I forget the
exact spec - but for military vehicles.  That's 80 in a 1958 Dodge 
Powerwagon.  Not 80 in a 1993 Ford Taurus.





Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102944
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Where can I get a New York taxi?

In article <C5r66A.6rB@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> almanb@sr.hp.com (Bob Alman) writes:
>          "hose"  h-o-s-e

	Dork.  d-o-r-k.




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102945
From: grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas)
Subject: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together!

Alright, beat this automobile sighting.

Driving along just a hair north of Atlanta, I noticed an old, run down
former car dealership which appeared to deal with, and repair, older
rare or exotic foreign sports cars. I saw:

Ford GT-40 (!), the famous model from Ford, that seemed to win most of 
its races in the late 60s, including Le-Mans 4 or 6 times.

Two Jensen Interceptors, one a convertable, one a hatchback?

Porsche 911 (boring compared to the rest)

THREE Ferarries, a Mondial, a 308 prepared for racing, and a red 60s model
that I couldn't identify.

And at the bottom, a late 70s MG convertable.

Outside there was a rotting Rover 3500 saloon, which was never regularly
sold in the U.S.

And in the showroom, there was a small italian body, either an Alpha Romeo
or a Lancia. It was about the size of an Austin Mini.
The trunklid was missing, exposing a boot with a voltage regulator 
in the upper left corner of the wall, and a chunk of metal removed from
the floor on the right hand side as if something would leave the trunk
and go to the outside from here.
The taillights looked like they
would be the round type (if they were there). Does anyone know what the
make of this one is?  

Certainly made my day... 
-- 
Graham E. Thomas                  *  blah blah blah blah blah  
Georgia Institute of Technology   *  blah blah blah blah blah     
Internet: grahamt@oit.gatech.edu  *  blah blah blah blah blah  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102946
From: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com (Thatch Harvey)
Subject: Re: Mercury Capri Restrictions

 


       The restriction could have to do with the car being a convertible.

A lot of paronoid laws were passed concerning convertibles in the 80's.
These states may require greater rollover protection than the Capri affords.

               Thatch Harvey


    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Thatch Harvey                                                    %
    % uucp: (no longer valid)            domain: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com %
    % Hewlett-Packard              Lake Stevens Instrument Division    %
    % Lake Stevens, WA                                                 %
    % (206) 335-2083                Merkur XR4Ti, Suzuki GSX1100G,     %
    %                               Prince SR3 D Sports Racer          %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%






Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102947
From: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com (Thatch Harvey)
Subject: Re: Removing Rain-X coat on the front windshield, any tips?



   If you want a summer without rain, you're in the wrong place. You must not
have been here a whole year yet. Keep the Rain-X handy my friend.


             Thatch

    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Thatch Harvey                                                    %
    % uucp: (no longer valid)            domain: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com %
    % Hewlett-Packard              Lake Stevens Instrument Division    %
    % Lake Stevens, WA                                                 %
    % (206) 335-2083                Merkur XR4Ti, Suzuki GSX1100G,     %
    %                               Prince SR3 D Sports Racer          %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%






Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102948
From: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM (John Fox - SunExpress IR)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article 5276@unisql.UUCP, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <C5r43y.F0D@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
>>I guess I wasn't clear enough here. I said the roads WERE designed for 
>>speeds of 80 or so and still be safe. The current 55-65 will add a saftey
>>margin.
>
>	They were designed for speeds of upwards of 80 - I forget the
>exact spec - but for military vehicles.  That's 80 in a 1958 Dodge 
>Powerwagon.  Not 80 in a 1993 Ford Taurus.
>
>
>
>


Ah yes, the 58 Powerwagon. Now there was a vehicle that today's cars can't
touch in terms of high speed road holding ability! :-)


































Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102949
From: grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas)
Subject: Re: BLAST to the past!

amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL) writes:
>be worthwhile?  Or how about something like the old MGB with new technology?
>Just think about it - the old style with upgraded safety features and perhaps a
>natural gas operated engine for less than 10K. I think it would go over well.
>What is your opinion??????
>Al H

Well, the MGB is currently in production for the English market, built
by Rover. It now has a V8, improved suspention, and a slightly
updated body. Too bad it's only available in GB and would set one
of us back about $42,000+.

 
-- 
Graham E. Thomas                  *  blah blah blah blah blah  
Georgia Institute of Technology   *  blah blah blah blah blah     
Internet: grahamt@oit.gatech.edu  *  blah blah blah blah blah  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102950
From: nsx@carson.u.washington.edu (|ns-x|)
Subject: Re: 300ZX or SC300???

>ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) writes:
>>I'm getting a car in the near future.  I've narrow it down to 300ZX and SC300.
>>Which might be a better choice?
>>Thanks for your opnion,
>>Danny


>I've been asking myself this same question for the past year, so, if/when
>you find out, would you please share the magistic answer with me.. 
>The way I see it right now, work twice as hard so you can have both.
>cheers :)
>Issa

	
	my suggestion is: why not work twice as hard (like issa 
	suggested above) then get acura nsx?! :) enjoy. /seb



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102951
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: '93 Grand Am (4 cyl)

In article <HOLCOMB.93Apr19073907@wgermany.ctron.com> holcomb@ctron.com (Edgar W. Ii Holcomb) writes:
>In article <Apr.18.12.24.26.1993.19337@remus.rutgers.edu> wilmott@remus.rutgers.edu (ray wilmott) writes:
>
>   Hi all. A while back I was asking for info about a few different
>   models, the Grand Am being one of them. Response was generally
>   favorable; one thing often repeated was "go for the V6 for some
>   real power". Point well taken, but...does anybody have any input
>   on the 4 cylinders (both the standard OHC, and the "Quad 4")?
>Ray,
>
>The High-Output Quad 4 delivers 175 hp (185 for the WF41 Quad 4), whereas
>the 3.1L V6 offered in the Grand Am delivers 140 hp.  I own a Beretta GTZ

ooppss...the v6 in the grand am is the 3.3. litre, not the 3.1.  the 3.3 is
a downsized version of buicks 3.8 litre v6.  the 3.1 v6 goes in the beretta 
and corsica.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102952
From: ajg1678@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Buick heater controls

I had the exactly same problem with my '70 Lesabre. It was also from Cal.     What I did was go to the local junkyard and pick up a diaphragm from a '68      Lesabre with the same heater set up.  It worked for me, but a little bit slow   to change from vents to defogger.  Better than nothing!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102953
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions

In article <1qugvu$ai8@quad.wfunet.wfu.edu> hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen) writes:
>
>Thanx to all those who responded, particularly those "never driven an XXX
>but here's what it's like:" guys...
>
>OK, we all know that new-age AT's are great in traffic, and do a satisfactory
>job in acceleration when you keep your foot buried in the carpet.
>
>My question regards downshifting.  NOT downshifting to pass (AT's are 
>good at this now), but manually moving the lever to 3, 2, or 1 at a point
>where you would downshift a manual-- e.g. approaching a red light, or a 
>curve, or just tooling around a parking lot in 1st or 2nd w/o shifting.
>This is why I'm still a Manual-Trans Bigot-- the downshifting for
>deceleration seems so natural.  When I try this in an automatic, the
>tranny doesn't seem to understand what I want.
>
>Addendum-- isn't it great, after downshifting while approaching that
>red light, when the light goes green, and you're already on-cam
>(or the turbo's already spooled up!) -- zippppppppppp!
>
>Hagen.  (hagenjd@ac.wfu.edu)
>

i have a grand am with auto and quad4.  around the gear selector there is a 
plastic strip which covers the space so you can't see inside.  anyway...i took
the cover off and cut the end of this long strip to a specific length, the 
strip curls up into a cirlce at one end inside.  anyway, by doing this the 
strip can't feed into the lip that circles it,,,,so...i can push button, pull
down and the gear shifter will only go back to 2 from drive,,,no accidental
hitting first.  i drive around town in 2 to keep the revs up.  shift to drive
above 50 and pull down to 2 when coming up to lights..if i want.  if i am
eating food...i drive in drive.  there are probably aftermarket shift kits
that will accomplish the same thing.  porsche's tip-tronic automatic can be 
driven like an auto...or put into +/- mode.  tip up...upshift...tip down...
downshift.  of course there is an override so you don't redline the engine.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102954
From: chris1@donner.cc.bellcore.com (ross,christina l)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

In article <9595@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim) writes:
> >In article <1993Apr14.140642.19875@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:
> >anybody is going anywhere. So, I block the would-be passers. Not only for my own
> >good , but theirs as well even though they are often too stupid to realize it.
> 
> Ah, we are looking for good people just like you. We are a very concerned
> group of citizens who are absolutely disgusted at the way that the majority
> of drivers simply disobey traffic rules like going above the speed limit,
> passing on our right, and riding our tails, while all the while we respectfully
> abide by the rules of this great country and maintain the mandated speed
> limits with our calibrated, certified cruise controls, while keeping the
> respectful 1.5 car length distance/10 mph speed. How many times have you been
> ticked off by some moron who jumps ahead in the (5.5 * 1.5)8.25 car lengths 
> that you have left between you and the vehicle ahead of you while driving
> 55 mph? Finally you have an option. We are a totally member supported group
> that perform functions for our own good, for the good of this great country  but MOST of all for those unfortunate ones that are too stupid to realize it,
> bless their souls. For a paltry $10, you can join Citizens for Rationally 
> Advanced Piloting(C.R.A.P), a non-profit, members only, society. But, but,but,
> there is a slight hitch, the initiation rite. To be a full fledged member of
> this exclusive club, you must proof that you are able to be in the fast lane of
> the busiest interstate in your area, keep the correct 1.5 car lenth/10 mph speedand I know this can be difficult with those morons around, NOT let anybody pass
> you, not in the next lane, not in the slow lane, not in the breakdown lane,
> not NOWHERE. For a complete list of acceptable interstates and times, send $5.
> And by the way, over 90% of our members are highly regarded attorneys in the
> auto field and they are completely, absolutely positively in the business ONLY
> to serve your best interests. As a testament to their virtues, they will give
> members 90% off the initial consultation fee. Feel free to drop me a line at
> your earliest convenience and remember, only SPEED kills!
> 
> Jit
> 
> 
> 
> 

Of course you are a bunch of arrogant lawyers who know whats best for the 
rest of us. You are doing such a wonderful job with our judicial system,
getting all the criminals off, I bow to your superior intellect. Not to
mention the fees you collect from us poor slobs who get tickets from 
speeding State Police officers, so you can soak is when we go to court.
I just love lawyer jokes! Don't you?

C. 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102955
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: Alarm systems: are they worthwhile?

In article <1993Apr19.164451.3744@news.eng.convex.com> dodson@convex.COM (Dave Dodson) writes:
>Is it worthwhile to get an alarm system on a new car?


Although, others have in the past and will continue to disagree
i think that it is worthwhile to get an alarm.


>What features are important?

I think that it is important to protect your trunk, engine bay, all
doors.  I'd get flashing lights, LED's mounted on the drivers and
passenger door and a relay to disable engine operation. Toss in 
a glass break sensor, and shock sensor. Door lock and unlock,
two remotes and panic feature are also nice to have.

Most important is where you have the installation done!  Some places
may cost a little more, but a poorly installed alarm (no matter how
much it cost) will be a major burden.


>What features are unimportant?

IMO, things like engine starters, voice alarms, window/sunroof open
and close, and most other conveniences.

>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Dave Dodson		                             dodson@convex.com
>Convex Computer Corporation      Richardson, Texas      (214) 497-4234

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102956
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <34544@oasys.dt.navy.mil> glouie@oasys.dt.navy.mil (George Louie) writes:
>In rec.autos, nancy@hayduke (Nancy Feagans) writes:
>>Ashtrays and cigarette lighters.  These should be an *option*.
>
>Why make it an option.  You can use the ashtray to store coins and other
>small things which come in handy. Use the cigarette lighter as an electrical
>outlet for all types of handy gadgets (CD players, vacuum cleaners,
>flashlights, etc.)  I don't want to pay extra for these things and if
>you don't use them, they don't hurt you.

I use the ashtray to keep change and other items in. I converted the 
cigarette lighter into a volume control knob for my in trunk subwoofer!


>
>
>George
>>--

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102957
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <19APR199316162857@erich.triumf.ca> music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:
>In article <C5r1Iy.8v0@SSD.intel.com>, jrowell@ssd.intel.com (Janet Rowell)
> writes...
>#>Could we plase cease this discussion.  I fail to see why people feel the need 
>#>to expound upon this issue for days and days on end.  These areas are not
>#> meant for this type of discussion.  If you feel the need to do such things,
>#> please take your thought elsewhere.  Thanks.
># 
>   Exactly my point.  There is a lot of hostility to, and from, teenagers.
>
>   If you follow the news for the northwest USA, you will have heard that a
> group of 20-year old boys (barely out of the teens, certainly their outlook
> was developed during their teens) just shot and killed an innocent little
> girl riding in a car in the Seattle area when her mother (who was driving)
> honked her horn at the car with the boys in it.  This is really upsetting
> and makes my stomach turn as it would any parent's.   Doesn't your heart
> just go out to that poor mother?
>   Teenagers both drive cars and are involved in automotive vandalism and
> crime.  Maybe someone on this newsgroup has had specific experience in
> dealing with violent teenage offenders like these kids are.  At the same

It seems sad that people lose all perspective when they here about a
case of violence by teenagers...

For a little perspective:

How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?

Did you read about all the kids at Stanford who spent their spring
breaks helping out in inner city areas? What about the hundreds of
volunteers ( teenagers and others) who worked to clean up the mess
after the Rodney King riots in LA?

Have you gone to your local high school play recently? Attended the
school orchestra performances? Have you seen how many kids volunteer
to pick up trash, plant trees, do walk-a-thons? How many kids have
tried to sell you stuff to benefit organizations they belong to? How
many girl scout cookies have you bought? How many chocolate bars for
good causes?

The media picks up on all the anomalies, the sensational...

What about the wonderful teenagers all over the place who work hard at
school, get good grades, go to college (or to work) and make a real
contribution to our society?

All humans are teenagers at some time in their lives! Mother Theresa
was a teenager and so was Geoffrey Dahmer.

It is really sad to see so many people who buy the sensational
reporting of the media as some kind of reflection of the world today!
It is a reflection of what is happening on the outer fringes of our
society and nothing more...

rf

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102958
From: jyow@desire.wright.edu
Subject: Re: Alarm systems: are they worthwhile?

In article <1993Apr19.164451.3744@news.eng.convex.com>, Dave Dodson <dodson@convex.COM> writes:
> Is it worthwhile to get an alarm system on a new car?
> 
> What features are important?
> 
> What features are unimportant?

That is a question that can only be answered by yourself and where you live. 
If you live in a place where crime is apparent, then it might be a good idea to
get one simply as a deterrent.  However, if a professional thief wants your
vehicle, its as good as gone no matter what you do.  But to slow down any
thieves it would be a good idea to get the basic options.  That would be:

1)	ignition kill or fuel cut-off
2)	a flashing red LED

These two are basic to a decent alarm system.  
To slow down the criminal some more, get a steering wheel lock.
That should be sufficient to persuade the thief to find an easier target.
But, then there's always car-jacking.  
Why is life so confusing?
I hope I helped somewhat.

************************************************************************
Jason Yow				Human Factors Psychology Program
Wright State University, Dayton, OH	E-mail: jyow@desire.wright.edu
************************************************************************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102959
From: ljbartel@naomi.b23b.ingr.com (Les Bartel)
Subject: Fast idle on 88 Ford Ranger

It did it again.  This morning, my 88 Ford Ranger was idling at 10,000 RPM.
Ok, so I exaggerated a little, but it was idling very fast.  It has a 2
liter carburated engine in it, and no blipping of the throttle would
cause the idle to drop back to normal (I don't think the linkage is stuck).
What can I do to fix this problem?  This has been a problem from time to
time, but has straightened itself out - until now.  I don't have a tach,
but by gauging by the sound of the engine, it is idling about twice as fast
as it should be.  This is down from what it was idling at when I pulled up
at a stop light.

Many thanks for any suggestions.

 - les

-- 
Les Bartel			I'm going to live forever
Intergraph Corporation		... or die trying
Electronics Division		
ljbartel@ingr.com
or ljbartel@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
(205) 730-8537

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102960
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

I guess that makes Altima the most generic car in the US.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102961
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: Re: No-Haggle Deals...Save $$???

A local dealer is advertising "No negotiation necessary!"
Make you wonder...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102962
From: nathanp@sco.COM (Nathan)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT)


"Jeremy G. Mereness" <zonker+@CMU.EDU> says:
>
>Can anyone offer any opinions of the Ford Probe... ala how they do in
>the long run, repair records, reliability, mileage, etc?
>
>I am fixing to buy a car in the next few months aiming toward something
>a little bigger than a typical small car and with a little more power. I
>am considering the MX-6, Probe, Accord, Corolla, and the 240SX. 
>
>The Probe is the youngest of the bunch, thus my interest in opinions.
>But every magazine and ratings book places it as an excellent value.
>BTW, the 240SX is rear-wheel drive and is due for a re-design for 1994. 
>
>Thanks in Advance!

While I don't read normally read this group, I was looking for Valentine radar
information (sigh, maybe in the FAQ) and came across your posting..

I bought a '93 Probe GT with the PEP 263A last July (now at 9500 miles)
after debating over the Sentra SE-R/NX2000, MX6, MR-2, Stealth, Prelude, 
and Celica.

Check this month's Consumer Reports for previous Probe records.  

My criteria: a "fun" car with ABS, airbag, over 130hp, and less than $25K.
I thought about a turbo, but checking with insurance people ruled that out.
The Tri-Star cars (Eclipse/Talon/etc) were out since they don't have an air bag.
Ditto for the Mustang(also no ABS).
The SE-R/NX2000/M20 fell into the pocket-rocket category.  A good used car buy.
The MX-6 was almost there but rolled more than I liked.  
I didn't like the Prelude dash/instrumentation at all.  Too weird for me.
The MR2 has a much smaller non-passenger space than I needed, so out that went.
The Celica was "ok" but underpowered when loaded with options (and somewhat
overpriced too) in non-turbo form.
I never considered the 240SX since it didn't have an airbag.  I did look at it
for its RWD virtues but that's it.  The Corolla never entered my mind.
I should have looked at the Mitsubishi VR4/Dodge Stealth more.
Since my list was exhausted, I bought the Probe.  :-)

The car design is different than earlier years, so it's too early to see its
reliability so far.  For what it's worth, my comments:

My dislikes:
Shutting door with windows up from inside rarely makes good wind seal.
Headlights have "stuck" up a few times (weather?)
air conditioning broke ~4000 miles (pressure cycling switch)
condensation around rear washer fluid container doesn't drain completely.
crammed engine; little hope for do-it-yourselfers (typical)
parts somewhat more expensive than normal Ford parts
underside plastic doesn't like sharp driveways and speedbumps (typical).
assembly gripes: tape on radiator, screw fell out of dash, seat seams not 
stitched properly.  Hopefully just a fluke.
Ford only gives 1 key with the car.  C'mon Ford, spend an extra few pennies!
Rear hatch has no padding on corners when up.  I'm waiting for the day when
I bash my head on the corner.
horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in center (personal preference)
Tires fling dirt/mud onto side of car 

My Likes:
engine (design/valves/sounds/smoothness/power/mileage/torque) -- definitely #1
handling (very good for FWD; understeer only at limits)
transmission (the 5 speed is a must)
usable instrumentation (lovely readable analog everywhere)
Very little torque steer at full power (much better than the '90 SHO I drive)
stability at 100+mph (high gearing though)
low cowl (good visibility in front)
Heated outside mirrors (nice in fog, never tested in freezing weather)
ABS/Air bag (see above)
rear seats fold down (I have few rear seat passengers so a trunk not important)
No shake/rattle noises when going over bumps/potholes (still!)
Tires: 225/55VR16 Goodyear Eagles (70% left; hoping for 30K :-)

As you can see, I'm primarily interested in the engine.  While it doesn't
have the uummmph of a big-liter car or the turbo rush, the big selling
point for me was the all-aluminum 24 value 2.5 liter engine.  

The overall car is a good buy for the money.  That market segment hasn't changed
much since July (Prelude VTEC, Honda Del Sol??).  I drive it to and from work
each day on relatively smooth roads, and most noticable thing is that the
Probe's suspension doesn't like potholes.  When you test drive one, find a 
potholed road somewhere around town and see if the jarring you get is tolerable.
If you have 3+ passengers, by all means bring them along too.  They'll find
that they have no room in the back and you'll find that the car rides
differently (if that's "better" is up to you).  Also, there's a lot of glass
around you which I wasn't expecting; the temperature inside the car gets pretty
hot in the summer.  My back seat passengers (now very few) complain about
the lack of ventilation; you may want to consider that when combined with
the heat.  I've heard that the exhaust system has trouble, but mine works fine.
Leather and the keyless entry system weren't available when I got the car so
I can't comment on them (I got the car before it was officially announced).  
I prefer cloth to leather anyway.  

I wouldn't want this car in the snow:  The suspension is too rough for the
inevitable surprise potholes, tires aren't meant for snow, and the seats assume
that you're not wearing lots of thick clothing.  Rain is much better:  water 
generally beads off the windshield at freeway speed, the windshield wiper
controls are easy and understandable, and I barely hydroplaned once with the
Eagles (and I was really trying).  
There is also a definite lack of cup holder/small storage places.  The GT
has map holders below the speakers in the door, but they're rigid plastic
that could fit two cassettes or CD's max.  The center console/storage bin/arm
rest has *1* cup holder and the back of the front seats have a cloth "pouch"
but that's it.  No change holders.  Quite a let-down from the SHO.
And the Probe is definitely not a people-mover car or an econo-box car!

Lastly, don't store wet car covers in the back.  The foam will soak the 
water up and the result will *not* smell pleasant :-(.

Nathan
nathan@sco.com

>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|Jeremy Mereness                 | Support     | Ye Olde Disclaimer:    |
>|zonker+@cmu.edu (internet)      |    Free     |  The above represent my|
>| FAST Project, CMU-GSIA         |     Software|   opinions, alone.     |
>|B.S. Mechanical Engineering, CMU|             |     Ya Gotta Love It.  |
>|               Every Silver Lining's Got a Touch of Grey               |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       This year marks the 200th anniversary of the Bill of Rights
>


-- 
MX: nathan@sco.com 
     "NO COMMENT"/They're coming to take me away, Ha-Ha! -- Napolean XIV

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102963
From: mgqlu@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Max Lu)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

We are working on gas-solid adsorption air-con system for auto applications.
In this kind of system, the energy for regenerating the adsorbent is from 
the exhaust gas.  Anyone interested in this mail email me or follow up this
thread, we may have a discussion on prospects of this technology.

Max 

-- 
Max G Q Lu, PhD 				|  Internet: mgqlu@ntu.ac.sg
Division of Thermal Enginerring			|  Bitnet: mgqlu@ntuvax.bitnet
School of MPE, Nanyang Technological University |  Phone: (65) 7994818
Nanyang Avenue, Singapore 2263			|  Fax:   (65) 7911859

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102964
From: vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:

> In article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU> ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Vel
> >This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
> >Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
> >throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
> >cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
> >a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
> >in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
> >made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
> >doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.
> >
> >What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
> >can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
> >20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
> >
> >Erik velapold
> 
> Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason
> is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is
> "No Big Deal". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort 
> children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised
> when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the
> message they hear is "Life is Cheap"!
> 
> AT

Well people fortunatly or unfortunatly ,
only the US is experiencing the devaluation of human life (among 
developed nations).

I am an American but I was raised in Europe, where the worst thing that 
can happen to somebody is get his car broken into, or have his pocket
picked by Slaves or Russian refugees.

Of cource there will be some nutcases, but thats extremely rare.

I.e. in Greece you can walk through any neighborhood at any time during
the night without even worrying.

In Germany , you can walk the sidewalks at 4.00 am and not even look 
behind your back, at the sanitation crews that clean the streets to a 
sparkling cleen.

Whoever of you have been there you know what I am saying.

I dont have any easy answers but if we as a nation do some selfcritisism
we might get somewhere.

Of course these postings sould be in soc.culture.US but if we reduce
crime here it 'll mean less car insurance rates ,thus we could spend
more money on modifing our cars. (Now my posting is rec.autos.tech 
revelant).

Vlasis  Theodore

___________________
Software Engineer
IDB Mobile Communications.

Sig under development ...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102965
From: vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

neilson@seoul.mpr.ca (Robert Neilson) writes:

> [sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]
> 
> > That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselve
> > and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is 
> > imminent.
> >
> > Steve Heracleous
> 
> You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
> go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
> job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
> me - those kids are mean.

Ditto,

I you dont do it yourself nobody, will.
Unless I am behind you, so both of us can shoot them bastards.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102966
From: europa@tomcat.raleigh.ibm.com (Welch Bryan)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.222254.6651@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>, gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker) writes:
|> Why crawl under the car at all? I have a machine I got for my boat that 
|> pulls the oil out under suction through the dip stick tube. It does an
|> excellent job and by moving the suction tube around, you can get more 
|> old oil out than by using the drain plug. I think I paid $25 at E&B Marine.
|> The oil goes into a steel 3 gal can - wait until it cools and decant into
|> your favorite device. I use soft drink bottles. Easy to take them down to
|> the local oil recycle center.

This does sound good, but I heard it tends to leave more grit, etc in the 
oil pan.  Also, I've been told to change the old when it's hot before the
grit has much time to settle.

Any opinions?

-- 
Bryan Welch                                  Amateur Radio: N0SFG
Internet: europa@vnet.ibm.com (best), bwelch@scf.nmsu.edu 
Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb
Disclaimer: It's all opinion.  Everything.  So there.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102967
From: europa@tomcat.raleigh.ibm.com (Welch Bryan)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5JoIt.E31@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, neil@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Neil Williams) writes:
|> larose@austin.cs.utk.edu (Brian LaRose) writes:
|> 
|> >This just a warning to EVERYBODY on the net.  Watch out for
|> >folks standing NEXT to the road or on overpasses.   They can
|> >cause SERIOUS HARM to you and your car.  
|> 
|> >(just a cliff-notes version of my story follows)
|> 
|> >10pm last night, I was travelling on the interstate here in
|> >knoxville,  I was taking an offramp exit to another interstate
|> >and my wife suddenly screamed and something LARGE hit the side
|> >of my truck.  We slowed down, but after looking back to see the
|> >vandals standing there, we drove on to the police station.
|> 
|> >She did get a good look at the guy and saw him "cock his arm" with
|> >something the size of a cinderblock, BUT I never saw him. We are 
|> >VERY lucky the truck sits up high on the road; if it would have hit
|> >her window, it would have killed her. 
|> 
|> >The police are looking for the guy, but in all likelyhood he is gone. 
|> 
|> >I am a very good driver (knock on wood), but it was night-time and
|> >I never saw the guy.  The police said they thought the motive was to
|> >hit the car, have us STOP to check out the damage, and then JUMP US,
|> >and take the truck.  
|> 
|> >PLEASE BE AWARE OF FOLKS.  AND FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, PLEASE DON'T STOP!!!!
|> 
|> >peace.
|> 
|> 
|> >-- 
|> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
|> >brian larose  larose@cs.utk.edu   #12, 3103 Essary Rd. Knoxville, TN 37918.
|> 
|> >{}
|> 
|> As long as we're on the subject... Several years ago myself and two others
|> were riding in the front of a Toyota pickup heading south on Interstate 5
|> north of Seattle, WA. Someone threw a rock of an overpass and hit our
|> windshield. Not by accident I'm sure, it was impossible to get up to the
|> overpass quickly to see who did it. We figured it was kids, reported it and
|> left.
|> A couple of years ago it happend again and killed a guy at my company. He was
|> in his mid-fourties and left behind a wife and children. Turned out there was
|> a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old
|> that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do?
|> I don't think I'll over forget this story.

In Des Moines, Iowa, about a year ago, some kid dropped a rock from an 
overpass and hit car just behind the windshield.  It put a dent in the roof, 
so I guess I was lucky it hit metal.

It's frustrating that we can't do much.  Bother the city government to put
covers on all overpasses?  Slow down/speed up a bit when driving under all
overpasses in the city?  I like the first better, but that will take time
and lots of people talking to the city governments.

Just another .02...

-- 
Bryan Welch                                  Amateur Radio: N0SFG
Internet: europa@vnet.ibm.com (best), bwelch@scf.nmsu.edu 
Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb
Disclaimer: It's all opinion.  Everything.  So there.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102968
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Too fast

boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>The quality of autobahns is something of a myth. The road surface
>isn't much different to a typical TX freeway. They are better
>in terms of lighting, safety, signs, roadmarkings etc.

They light the highways in Texas?  Funny, everywhere else I've been
they only light 'em at junctions.

I won't even get into how much road markings vary between states and
localities except to say that there are some areas where markings are
essentially nonexistant.

>>than most of the roads here. A dip in the asphalt that you test your
>>shocks on at 60 will kill you at 130. Don't get me wrong, I love to

>It would have to be quite severe. I don't recall any US freeway,
>without road damage warnings, that i would regard as unsafe
>at 130 in any decent, well damped car.

I suspect you have very limited experience -- US freeways vary
dramatically, particularly between states.  I can name a number of
interstate highways in various parts of the country where 130 would be
very optimistic in any car.

I'm not sure what you call "quite severe" in terms of road deviations
but I suspect every single bridge junction on I84 through CT would be
considered so.  They're hard to take at 85mph.  That's not the only
interstate I've seen with such deviations, but it's one I drive
frequently.

Texas is pretty much an edge-case -- you can't assume that everywhere
has roads in such good condition, such flat terrain, and such
wide-open spaces.  It just ain't so.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102969
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

Wharf Wrat rites:

>They were designed for speeds of upwards of 80 - I forget the
>exact spec - but for military vehicles.  That's 80 in a 1958 Dodge 
>Powerwagon.  Not 80 in a 1993 Ford Taurus.

Ever' once in a while, you still see a reference to the super-
slab system as "Interstate and Defense Highways."  But whether
the military has much of anything that goes 80 on the road is
another matter.  A few of their most whomped-up diesel trucks,
maybe, load permitting.  The military surplus stuff I've
driven -- "Jeep Classic" (Willys/Kaiser/AMC, pre-independent
suspension) and Power Wagons (Slant 6 in a crew-cab pickup)
weren't exactly congenial at highway speeds, and I wouldn't
swear any of them would do 80 except as a bedload on a semi.

You just gotta love the standard military tire, too, or at
least the one they used to use.  Designed circa WW II as a
compromise between traction in icky sticky goo and longevity
on sharp rocks and so forth, it's quite ill-adapted to high
speeds on civilian roadways.  For those who can't remember
what they look like, imagine a mountain-bike tire with a
road rib in the middle, scaled up to car size. Oh, yeah, and
narrow too. One of the standard mods for civilizing a surplus 
Jeep was to install tires and wheels that reflected some of
the advancements made in ride and handling since D-Day.

But the point made by Wharfie and others still stands:  if
you're going to do 80 in a mil-spec '58 Power Wagon (or a
Jeep or a tank transporter or other unwieldy rubber-tired
vehicle) anywhere, I'd suggest the American interstate.  
Your safe speed there tends to be limited more by your car
and skills, road maintenance, and the swarms of fools around
you; the roads were designed for going like the devil.

Naturally, neither I nor my employer advocates unsafe or
unlawful driving.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102970
From: Stefan.M.Gorsch@dartmouth.edu (Stefan M. Gorsch)
Subject: Importing Volvo?

Well, I'm afraid the time has come; my rice-burner has finally died.
I'd always promised my wife that we would do a Scandanavian tour when
my car died and pick up a Volvo in Sweden, drive it around and then
import it home. 

Can anyone give me 1) advice on feasibility and relative costs 2)
references where I might learn more 3) Personal experience?

Please email

Thanks

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102971
From: ceng@mdd.comm.mot.com (Curtis Eng)
Subject: Selling a car through a car hunter

Anybody got any good/bad experience with selling their car through one of
those car hunters?  I'm selling a 1991 Dodge Stealth R/T and I was contacted
by this company called the Markham group based out of Illinois.  

They said they have 7-10 buyers in my area interested in my car or they wouldn't
be talking to me.  They talked to me for a good 20 minutes asking everything
about my car and said they could sell it no problem.  They guaranteed that if
they didn't sell my car in 75 days, I would get my money back ($389) and since
I charged it, I'm protected by federal law which states that if I'm not satisfied,
I would get a refund (which is true).  They federal expressed all the paperwork 
to me which had a contract stating their policy about the 75 days and such.

I called up the BBB in Illinois and they do not have a file on them which is
good news.  So they definitely are a legitimate company but so far, it's been
over week and I have gotten nothing.  So how effective are these types of 
companies? Anybody care to share their experiences?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102972
From: joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt)
Subject: Re: Trading in a car that's not paid for...Pointers Please

In article <49422@fibercom.COM> rrg@rtp.fibercom.com (Rhonda Gaines) writes:
>
>I'm planning on purchasing a new car and will be trading in my '90
>Mazda MX-6 DX.  I've still got 2 more years to pay on it.  How does
>that get taken into account when I purchase my new car?  Does the
>dealership pay off my car and add on the amount they had to pay to
>the purchase price of the new car?  someone please explain this to
>me.

If you don't already know it, you should call the bank/credit union/
finance company that holds the loan on your present car and get the
current payoff cost.

If you are trading in your current car on the new car, subtract the
payoff amount from the trade-in the dealer is giving you.  (If this
turns out to be a negative number, you need to reconsider the deal.)
Subtract this difference from the price of the new car.  This is the
size of the loan you will need for the new car.

The dealer will take care of paying off the loan on your old car out
of the money you give them when you pick up your new car.

At least that's how it worked for me 5 years ago in Ohio...

>
> -thanks
>  rhonda



-- 
Joseph Staudt, Telxon Corp. | joes@telxon.com
P.O. Box 5582               | "Usenet is like Tetris for people who still
Akron, OH  44334-0582       |  remember how to read."
(216) 867-3700 x3522        |           -- J. Heller

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102973
From: sjp@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Steve Phillips)
Subject: Re: Ford and the automobile

: Ford and his automobile.  I need information on whether Ford is
: partially responsible for all of the car accidents and the depletion of
: the ozone layer.  Also, any other additional information will be greatly
: appreciated.  Thanks. 
: 
SSSSSoooooooooooo!!!!! Its all HIS fault!! Thank God Louis Chevrolet is 
innocent! and that guy Diesel, HE otto feel guilty!


--
Stephen Phillips
Atlanta Response Center
Atlanta, Ga.
Home of the Braves!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102974
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
>How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
>agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?

Hear, hear!  Thanks, Robbie.

You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as
George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,
who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.


On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers
for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be.
Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do
with people of all ages.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102975
From: tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com (Tommy Szeto)
Subject: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually happens
after a good thunder storm.  A few Qs:

1) Is this a common problem?
2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?

Thanks for any info.
Tom

-- 
Tom Szeto                         "No!  Not those peanuts!  The ones on the
tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com       bottom....ggnuuaahuuhh" 
#include <disclaimer.h>            - Homer Simpson

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102976
From: rll@frieda.mitre.org (Roberto L. Landrau)
Subject: Re: Eagle Talon TSi--LEMON?

In rec.autos Jay Lorenzana <U40348@uicvm.uic.edu> wrote:
>
>Dear Netters:
>
>I am looking to buy a used Eagle Talon '91 or '91 TSi AWD.

I would be concerned about how the car was driven and how well it was
maintained.  I own a turbocharged one, and I would never buy a
turbocharged vehicle unless I knew the owner and his/her
driving/maintenance habits.

>Question is that the '91 TSi AWD was mentioned in the
>April Consumer Reports to a car to avoid!

I have been wondering about that myself.  The '90 AWD models and the
'91s were identical (except for the ABS option).  

>In particular, the manual transmission,

Yes.  Some owners had problems with the transaxles.  Using
synthetic lubricants in the transaxles solved the problem in most
cases.  The problem was not unique to the AWDs, however.  It was
common to all models.  The Galant VR4 and GSX had the same transaxle,
but I didn't see those listed in CR.

>electrical system,

I don't know of any major complaints in this area, except that the
battery that was installed at the factory had a low current rating. 

>and brakes were below par (in both models).

The first FWD models (those built before May 1989) were recalled for
brake upgrades.  Some FWD and AWD owners had problems with warped
rotors.  Those of us who insist on using manual torque wrenches every
time the lug nuts are tightened have never had a problem.

>A friend of mine
>ownes a '90 TSi AWD and he has had 2 brake jobs (pads),

I can refer you to someone who has gone through a set of pads in one
day!  It all depends on how you drive.  It seems that most owners have
been getting between 40-70k on a set of pads.

>one stuck valve,

First time I hear about a problem with the valve train on these cars,
other than timing belt failures.

>and some clutch/transmission problem, something
>about sticking/grinding into second gear.  This doesn't seem
>too bad if one "beats" on his car.

If your friend "beats" on the car, then his unit is not a
representative sample of the car's reliability.

My suggestion is instead of listening to the useless Consumer Reports,
talk to several owners (the mailing list may be the best way to reach
a few of them).

>I am willing to suffer reliability--for speed and looks.  Seems
>you have to pay big buck if you want all three.  Anyway can
>anyone please let me know how you like your Talon, and any
>problems you may have had, and if the repairs are worth it.

#if (humor_impaired) skip_to TheEnd
No matter how much you pay, you won't get all three.  Examples:

NSX:       reliability and looks.
Ferrari:   reliability ^H^H^H^H^H^H (yeah, right!) speed and looks

TheEnd
--
The opinions stated above are not necessarily my employer's.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Roberto L. Landrau    KC1YP    landrau@mitre.org  rll@linus.mitre.org
The MITRE Corporation  Bedford, MA 01730          rll@linus.UUCP

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102977
From: tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum)
Subject: Is car saftey important? 

   I was recently thumbing through the 1993 Lemon-Aid New
Car Guide.  What I found was a car would be given a 'Recommended'
under the picture while a few sentences later noting how a
driver and passenger were virtually guaranteed to be killed
in a front end collision.  The most highly recommended small
car (The Civic) has the worst crash rating of all of the small
cars listed.  There were many such cases of 'great' vehicles
where you wouldn't survive an accident.  Is it only me, or is
safety not one of the most important factors when buying a car?



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102978
From: joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt)
Subject: Re: Renting from Alamo	

In article <1993Apr20.142818.14969@ericsson.se> etxmst@sta.ericsson.se writes:
>Hello netters!
>
>I'm visiting the US (I'm from Sweden) in August. I will probably rent a Chevy
>Beretta from Alamo. I've been quoted $225 for a week/ $54 for additional days.
>This would include free driving distance, but not local taxes (Baltimore). 
>They also told me all insurance thats necessary is included, but I doubt that,
> 'cause a friend rented a car last year and it turned out he needed a lot more
>insurance than what's included in the base price. But on the other hand he 
>didn't rent it from Alamo.
>
>Does anyone have some info on this?
>
>Is $225 a rip-off? 
No, that sounds pretty reasonable for that car and that city.

>Probability that I'll be needing more insurance?
Unless you have an accident, you won't need more.  If you plan on
paying for the car with a credit card, check and see if your card
automatically covers rental cars.  Also, your own auto insurance may
cover rental cars also.

Most rental companies here offer extra insurance when you rent, and
require you to initial in several spots if you don't want it.  The
credit cards and personal auto insurance provide the same sort of
coverage that the rental agency is trying to sell.

I have never rented from Alamo, so I don't know if they follow this
same practice.

>Is the beretta a good rental car?
Yes.  It is a compact 2-door, probably a bit dull performance and
acceleration-wise, but very adequate.  It will have an automatic
transmission, AM/FM stereo, air conditioning, and possibly power 
windows and door locks.

Joe



-- 
Joseph Staudt, Telxon Corp. | joes@telxon.com
P.O. Box 5582               | "Usenet is like Tetris for people who still
Akron, OH  44334-0582       |  remember how to read."
(216) 867-3700 x3522        |           -- J. Heller

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102980
From: ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots


In a previous article,  (Eric Youngblood) says:

>In article <Apr19.195700.19699@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:

>[race car stuff deleted]

Back to the F1 stuff for a second, note that the `auto' tranny in F1
_STILL_ shifts at the driver's command, not some preselected schedule.  The
driver still controls the shifting, not the transmission. 

>|> now, there is no dispute that in production cars, automatics are
>|> inherently more lossy than manuals.  that is in theory.  my point all
>|> along is that whatever mechanical advantages a manual has over an
>|> automatic can very easily be lost by a driver who isn't skillful or

>One thing that gives an automatic an advantage at launch is the fact that
>it has a torque converter vs a clutch.  I know this sounds strange but,
>a torque converter multiplies the engine output when launching.  It functions
          ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^
>as a sort of limited Continuously Variable Transmission. Typically you get 
>a torque multiplication of 2 to 3 times depending on the stall speed.

I have yet to see a torque multiplier installed on a production automobile. 
Such systems do exist, but none are presently installed in production autos
that I am aware of.  These are commonly called viscous drive CVTs or
fluidic amplifiers. 

>Contrasted to a clutch which merely slips when feathered (result is no TQ mult)

What the convertor _does_ allow is for the engine to be closer to its
torque peak during the launch before a clutched car can fully engage it's
driveline.  Chevy proved it many years ago with the '70 Camaro (ETs and
terminal 1/4 mile times were close enough tpo be identical for 4 speed and
auto cars).  Note that this is also the major reason that an auto car can
get away with fewer gears than a manual, the slip in the convertor makes up
for the fewer ratios (and before everyone starts yelling about the proposed
5 sspeed autos soon to be out, note that some manufacturers are using 6
speed manulas now). 

>Once past lauch however, the converter begins coupling and the TQ multiplication
>effect is reduced, but by then you should be on the cam.

Correct.
-- 
Al Bowers  DOD #900  Alfa  Ducati  Hobie  Kottke  'blad  Iaido  NASA
"Well goodness sakes...don't you know that girls can't play guitar?"
                                             -Mary Chapin-Carpenter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102981
From: <U37955@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Internal leak in carburetor

Hi,

My friend's 1983 Toyota Tercel accelerates by itself without using
the gas peddel. The repairman said it has a internal leak of air in
the carburetor and needs a new carburetor (costs $650). She likes
to know if it is possible to fix the problem without replacing
the whole carburetor.

Thank you.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102982
From: jackw@boi.hp.com (jack wood)
Subject: BBB Autoline Arbitration


My BBB Autoline arbitration experience is over.  
The outcome was decidedly mixed.  I won the battle but 
lost the war.  The arbitrator found that the car was 
defective, but decided to offer a repurchase well below 
market value :(.  At the time of the hearing, average 
retail on my truck in the NADA book was $21,025, but 
the decision was for  $17,665.  I wrote a letter to the 
Council of Better Business Bureaus pointing out the 
fact that if you have an automobile that does not 
depreciate rapidly, the manufacturer has no incentive 
to deal with you.  There is no way that the 
manufacturer can loose because they can turn around and 
sell the vehicle at a profit if the consumer is awarded 
a repurchase.  The attitude of Chevrolet's 
representative at the hearing tends to support this 
point of view;  he was totally unprepared and did not 
seem to take the proceeding very seriously.

I decided to take the repurchase, even though I am 
getting totally screwed on the price.  I will not have 
to deal with continuing repairs or selling a lemon 
myself, and I have no case for a civil suit based on 
the Idaho lemon law.  I am planning to send a letter to 
my elected representatives telling them how utterly 
ridiculous the Idaho lemon law is.  The law allows for 
a "use deduction" equal to the IRS mileage allowance.  
As if Chevrolet were buying my gas and paying 
for my insurance.

Summary of the case:  In May 1992 I bought a new 3/4 ton
HD Chevrolet pickup.  Between May 1992 and December 1992 
this vehicle required repair after repair.  Systems 
that required attention included the transmission, 
heater fan, paint, suspension, and motor.  The main 
problem was the five speed manual transmission.  They 
could not install a non-defective transmission in at 
least four attempts.

So, in summary, it is possible to get a repurchase, but 
you are going to get screwed on the price, unless you 
paid too much in the first place, or if your car 
happens to be a model that depreciates rapidly.

jackw@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102983
From: storrs@eos.ncsu.edu (JERRY STORRS)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


In article <19APR199316162857@erich.triumf.ca>, music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:
|>Xref: taco alt.parents-teens:1937 rec.autos:101669
|>Path: taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!erich.triumf.ca!music
|>From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
|>Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens,rec.autos
|>Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...
|>Date: 19 Apr 1993 16:16 PST
|>Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
|>Lines: 52
|>Distribution: world
|>Message-ID: <19APR199316162857@erich.triumf.ca>
|>References: <C5JoIt.E31@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> <18APR199309481599@erich.triumf.ca> <1qs4a9$f87@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <C5r1Iy.8v0@SSD.intel.com>
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca
|>Summary: Violent Teenagers and victims need help.
|>Keywords: brick, rock,  danger, gun, violent, teenagers
|>News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
|>
|>In article <C5r1Iy.8v0@SSD.intel.com>, jrowell@ssd.intel.com (Janet Rowell)
|> writes...
|>#>Could we plase cease this discussion.  I fail to see why people feel the need 
|>#>to expound upon this issue for days and days on end.  These areas are not
|>#> meant for this type of discussion.  If you feel the need to do such things,
|>#> please take your thought elsewhere.  Thanks.
|># 
|>#I just want to second this request. I value this net group as one where people
|>#focus on solving problems and go out of their way to be respectful of
|>#differences. The hostility expressed in the original posting feels like an
|>#assault. 
|># 
|>#Thanks,
|>#Jan 
|># 
|>
|>   Exactly my point.  There is a lot of hostility to, and from, teenagers.
|>
|>   Look, I sent these posts here to alt.parents-teens (with a copy to
|> rec.autos) since you people in this group may have the best advice for
|> and experience with troubled teenagers.
|>
|>   If you follow the news for the northwest USA, you will have heard that a
|> group of 20-year old boys (barely out of the teens, certainly their outlook
|> was developed during their teens) just shot and killed an innocent little
|> girl riding in a car in the Seattle area when her mother (who was driving)
|> honked her horn at the car with the boys in it.  This is really upsetting
|> and makes my stomach turn as it would any parent's.   Doesn't your heart
|> just go out to that poor mother?
|>

Yes, Fred, my heart and prayers go out to the mother and others who have 
been victims of these and other senseless crimes.

|>   You folks in this group have a responsibility to offer any good advice
|> that you may have.  I suspect lots of people all over the world will read
|> and appreciate your comments.
|>

However, I feel that you have missed the point of the previous postings (see 
top).  Your statement of 'responsibility' is felt as an attack towards the 
members of this group.  You are attempting to make the members of this group
be REQUIRED to answer.  The only people who should make a statement are people
who have experienced the problem and found a workable solution.

|>   Teenagers both drive cars and are involved in automotive vandalism and
|> crime.  Maybe someone on this newsgroup has had specific experience in
|> dealing with violent teenage offenders like these kids are.  At the same
|> time, maybe you would have some good advice for those hostile people who
|> sense that are now the potential victims.  Maybe you would have some good
|> advice for them on how not to pay back and/or not make the situation worse.  
|> Maybe you have some good advice for local authorities or schools where
|> this problem is prevalent.  But then again, maybe you're not interested. :-(

Many people are interested, but have no input.  I will restate that your last
sentence here is seen as an attack on the members of this group.  If people have
input, they will give it.  If they do not, YOU should not make them feel 
compelled (sp?) to respond.  

If you wish to continue this conversation, PLEASE send e-mail.  DO NOT repost or
attempt to bait me, I will not make another post (and may I make the same a
suggestion to other group members) on this matter.


|>
|>   Thanks in advance for your help, if we get any.
|>

BTW, your welcome.
-- 

===============================================================================
Jerry L. Storrs, System/Network Manager || ..."Why do you look for the living
Dept of Chemical Engineering, NCSU      || among the dead?  He is not here, 
   storrs@che.ncsu.edu (preferred)      || He is risen!"
   storrs@eos.ncsu.edu                  || ^^^^^^^^^^^       Luke 24:5-6     
                          <><           ||  THE LORD IS RISEN INDEED!!      
===============================================================================
Any statement made is the explicit belief of the writer and not the employer.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102984
From: dspalme@mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

: nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) writes:
: 
: > 
: > HELP!!!
: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
: 
jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry) writes:
:
: FYI, just last week the PBS show Motor Week gave the results of what they 
: thought were the best cars for '93.  In the convertible category, the 
: Honda Civic del Sol achieved this honor.  
:  
: The one down-side I see with the car is its interior, it looks 
: inexpensive and dull.
: 
I own a del Sol and I must vouch for the interior.  I really looks snazzy when
the top is off.  I looks a lot better in person than on the television.  (I saw
that Motorweek as well.  Needless to say I was smiling a bit by the time it
was over ...)  :*)

Watch out for that darned "convertible tan" tho...

Diane
dspalme@mke.ab.comm

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102985
From: jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche)
Subject: Re: VW Passat:  advice sought

In article <Apr.19.12.13.52.1993.387@remus.rutgers.edu> hong@remus.rutgers.edu (Hyunki Hong) writes:
>
>I am currently in the car market and would like opinions on a VW
>Passat GLX.  How does it compare to a Toyota Camry?  I thought the car
>looked very solid, stable and European.  Only disappointment so far is
>that that it doesn't offer an airbao my next question is, why isn't VW
>offering automobiles with airbags?  Should I pay the extra three
>thousand for a BMW 318 is even though it is smaller and less powerful
>than than the Passat?

I think VW got caught out on the airbag thing.  It's only been in the last
year or two that airbags have become a significant selling feature.
VW assumed that  automatic belts would satisfy govt. requirements for
passive restraint, but didn't guess that the 'merican consumer would
actually make buy decisions based on the presence of an airbag.

VW is really hurting right now in the US market.  Check out the
article in last week's Autoweek about the crisis at VW.  Golfs and
Jettas will be coming from the plant in Mexico, but they don't have
the quality at that facility.  As per normal VW practice, the US
launch of the Jetta III is delayed again and again, until a good chunk
of the useful life of the design is spent.

I think that Passats come from Germany, so there is not the same
quality and availability issue.  It's a nice car with a nice engine.
Whether VW will be a player in the US market in two year's time is a
different question...

I'll leave the Passat / Camry flamewar for someone else.




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102986
From: tspila@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tim Spila {Romulan})
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <1993Apr21.034751.23512@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> mgqlu@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Max Lu) writes:
>We are working on gas-solid adsorption air-con system for auto applications.
>In this kind of system, the energy for regenerating the adsorbent is from 
>the exhaust gas.  Anyone interested in this mail email me or follow up this
>thread, we may have a discussion on prospects of this technology.

Ok, I'll bite.  How is this supposed to work?

Tim.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102987
From: awds_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Adam Edwards)
Subject: Re: 86 chevy sprint

In <wfnMBJG00WBOE3L2c0@andrew.cmu.edu> Srinagesh Gavirneni <sg48+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>I have a 86 chevy sprint with a/c and 4doors. It's odometer turned 90k
>and the sensor light started blinking. I went to the dealer and he said
>it was a maintenance light saying I need to change the Oxygen sensor. He
>said, It is to be changed every 30k, but since I bought the car when it
>had 77k, I don't know if the same thing happened at 30k and 60k.  He
>quoted $198 for the part and $50 to install it. The part cost $30
>outside, but the mechanic I went to could not fix it saying the sensor
>is placed too deep in the engine parts. He suggested I wait till it
>malfunctions before I do anything.  If anyone out there owns a chevy
>sprint, I want to know how they got their Oxygen sensors changed. Also,
>did you face any problem with fixing it without the dealer's help. Also,
>what are the results of the oxygen sensor malfunction. 
>  Any help would be greatly apprecisted
>   Thanks




I sold my '86 Sprint last April with 95k on it.  I'd driven it since
the previous July, putting 20k miles on it.  The sensor light used to
light up regularly, starting about 5k miles after I bought it.  
My brother and I rebuilt the engine but used all of the original equipment,
so I suppose the sensor could have used replacement.  Performance (hah,
if you could call it that) did not change.  Perhaps emissions increased,
but how much emissions could a CA-registered 3 cylinder engine produce?
That was a neat car, I held the engine block easily in one hand!  Has
anyone ever driven the 'Turbo' variant?  Just curious...

	Adam Edwards
awds_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102988
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.

In article <1qqp2o$5ba@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-H
ung Wan) writes:
>
>In a previous article, ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) says:
>
>>I have $30,000 as my budget.  I'm looking for a sports or GT car.
>>
>>What do you think would be the best buy?  (I'm looking for specific models)
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Danny
>>--
>>
>>==============================================================================
=
>>=    "Hey! You programmers out there!     |    Danny Phornprapha
=
>>=     Please consider this:               |    ip02@lehigh.edu
=
>>=                                         |
=
>>=     Bugs are another endangered earth   |    LUCC Student Konsultant
=
>>=     Species needing your protection.    |    Work: (215) 758-4141
=
>>
>
>For an all out sports car, I'd go for the RX-7 without the sports
>suspension (which is too stiff.)  For a little more practicality and more
>comfort, the Nissan 300ZX Turbo is a good buy.  And for a good dose of
>luxury, the Lexus SC300 is perfect (with a manual transmission of course.)
>However, the Toyota Supra is coming out soon and if you like it's looks,
>the performance is supposed to be great, almost race car like.  I don't
>particulary like the Mitsubishi 3000GT's or the Dodge Stealths as they are
>too heavy and aren't very nimble handlers for a sports car.
>--
>A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
>Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
>
>"The mind is the forerunner of all states."
>
 The only thing about the 300ZX turbo and new Supra is they're about $10K or
 more over his budget...
-- 
                      " Be good,
                 and you will be lonely"
                                        Mark Twain

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102989
From: kmac@cisco.com (Karl Elvis MacRae)
Subject: Sport Utility Vehical comparisons? Any Opinions?



	I just read articals on this in Road and Track and Car and Driver
	(Is that one mag or two? =B^), and I was wondering if people out
	there have any opinions that differed from what these mags have to
	say...


	I'm looking at the following three SUV's; anyone who's driven all
	three have any strong opinions?


	Ford Explorer
	Toyota 4Runner
	Nissan Pathfinder


	Currently I'm leaning toward the Toyota, 'cause I've had big success
	with Toyota trucks in the past, and 'cause I think it's the best
	looking of the three. But I thought I'd see if anyone has any strong 
	opinions....



			Thanks!


	-Karl


  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Karl Elvis MacRae	Software Release Support	Cisco Systems
  kmac@cisco.com -or- batman@cisco.com     415-688-8231   DoD# 1999  FJ1200
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
	      "Shovels and rakes and implements of destruction"
						-Arlo Guthrie

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102990
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important?

tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes:
>Is it only me, or is
>safety not one of the most important factors when buying a car?

It depends on your priorities.  A lot of people put higher priorities
on gas mileage and cost than on safety, buying "unsafe" econoboxes
instead of Volvos.  I personally take a middle ground -- the only
thing I really look for is a three-point seatbelt and 5+mph bumpers.
I figure that 30mph collisions into brick walls aren't common enough
for me to spend that much extra money for protection, but there are
lots of low-speed collisions that do worry me.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102991
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr19.145238.9561@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
>anything if he hadn't emptied his gun into the asshole.  Texas--it's
>whole other country.

That reminds me of one of Texas's ads...you hear a guy speaking in
French (like it's a letter home), then the French moves to the 
background, and a French-accented voice come to the foreground, talking
about how he went walking on the beach, and it felt so much like
home that he decided to take his shoes off...and the rest of his
clothes. It ended with "please send bail." :-)

>On an rec.autos note, does anyone carry a gun on them or keep one in
>their car (which is bad idea, isn't it?) if you work in a bad part of
>town (or regularly go through one)?  Is this a loaded question?  :^)

I normally have an unloaded Colt Delta in my glove box with a loaded
magazine handy (which is perfectly legal in Oklahoma). For those
times that I'm travelling inter-state, I keep an unloaded 
S&W .44 Magnum revolver in the glove box, with a speed-loader
in my pocket (which is legal everywhere, under Federal law, Illinois
State Police be hanged).

As I've said before, this is stricly for defense; my insurance
will pay to replace my car, but I only have one life...

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102992
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Slick 50, any good?

Hmmm....I was listening to the local radio expert (who is, amazingly
enough, an Honest-to-God Expert(tm); it's amazing what he knows...), 
and he said that, based on his conversations with the inventor of 
Slick50 (who is no longer with the comapny, due to some kind of 
conflict), he avoids it like the plague.  He does recommend other 
teflon-based/type oil additives, though.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102993
From: bell@plains.NoDak.edu (Robert Bell)
Subject: Re: Info/Opinions Wanted on Cars In this Article

In article <1993Apr13.182100.26650@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>In article <49071@fibercom.COM> rrg@rtp.fibercom.com (Rhonda Gaines) writes:
>>
>>I'm in the market for a new car.  Currently I own a '90 Mazda MX-6 DX
>>which has served me just fine.  However, I'd like to get
>>a 4-door car since I don't relish the thought of moving a carseat
>>around in a 2-door car.  My criteria are: 4-door, a/c, am/fm cassette,
>>quick acceleration, cruise control, decent rear seat legroom (my
>>husband is a 6-footer).  It must also be under $20k
>>preferably closer to the 11-15k range (which will probably rule out
>>the Accord).  The '93 cars that have caught my eye are: Toyota Corolla, 
>>Toyata Camry, Mazda 626, Pontiac Grand Am, Pontiac Grand Prix, 
>>Honda Accord, (and Civic if it's roomy enough and still comes in a 
>>4-door model), Hyundai Sonata, and maybe even a small Oldsmobile, 
>>although not the Achieva.  All opinions, benchmarks,
>>recommendations, etc. are welcome.
>
>I really wouldn't consider the Grand Am/Achevia/Skylark (all the same)
>since they are very bad in frontal collsions and don't have any
>other really outstanding qualities.
>
>john
>-- 

I really must object to that last statement.  Having a lot of experience
with a '92 Grand Am coupe, I can firmly state that they do have a lot of
outstanding qualities.  Very reliable throughout.  Great layout of controls
and components.  Very roomy considering the exterior size of the car.  They 
look sharp inside and out.  The V6 that I drive has exceptional power and 
drivability compared to other similar cars that I have driven.

All in all, it's a fun-to-drive, dependable, and reasonably priced vehicle.
Please don't knock it with a statement like that unless you back it up with
specific reasons why you feel that way.

Rob
bell@plains.nodak.edu


>John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
>"To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
>something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
>wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102994
From: lerxst@wam.umd.edu (where's my thing)
Subject: WHAT car is this!?

 I was wondering if anyone out there could enlighten me on this car I saw
the other day. It was a 2-door sports car, looked to be from the late 60s/
early 70s. It was called a Bricklin. The doors were really small. In addition,
the front bumper was separate from the rest of the body. This is 
all I know. If anyone can tellme a model name, engine specs, years
of production, where this car is made, history, or whatever info you
have on this funky looking car, please e-mail.

Thanks,
- IL
   ---- brought to you by your neighborhood Lerxst ----





Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102995
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102997
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Subject: Re: Sport Utility Vehical comparisons? Any Opinions?

> I just read articals on this in Road and Track and Car and Driver
> (Is that one mag or two? =B^), and I was wondering if people out
> there have any opinions that differed from what these mags have to say...

Depending on how you plan to use your SUV, I might recommend also
browsing Trailer Boats and one or more of those Pickup, Shotgun,
and 4WD magazines.  The car rags mostly seem to consider recently
graded pea gravel to be offroading and ten sacks of redwood chips
to be a bedload.  Considering that most of these SUVs seem to be 
used mostly as robust station wagons, that's probably not a bad
approach, but if your applications are more demanding, pick your
information sources accordingly.

Of the three vehicles on your short list (Explorer, 4Runner, 
Pathfinder), I'd recommend the 4Runner as being closely based 
on a rather robust pickup and the Explorer for being comfortably 
carlike.  Don't know much about the Pathfinder.

Good luck,
--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102998
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>
>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>I am quite interested in it.
>>Thanks!
>>Darren Gibbons
>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>	
>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????

Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.

Craig
>
>	Chintan Amin
>	llama@uiuc.edu
>
>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 102999
From: tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!)
Subject: MR2 - noisy engine.


G'day people,
	
	Are there any MR2 owners or motor-head gurus out there, that know why
my MR2's engine sounds noisy? The MR2's engine is noisy at the best of times, 
but not even a nice nose - it's one of those very ugly noises. 
	I do an oil change every 2-3 months, and for about 2 months the engine
noise sounds relatively quiet during driving and idling. At around the 3 month
mark, after an oil change (I've been tracking this very thoroughly for months
now) it starts to get that very disgusting noise, not so much during driving,
but more so during idling. 
	What's its problem? 
	Also.. I don't know if it's just me, but if noticed a little
performance drop. It just hasn't got the acceleration it used to. 

	Any help/tips would be appreciated!!


Worried.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103000
From: James Edward Burns <ddujeb@arco.com>
Subject: Re: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together!

In article <1qvgg3INNl0r@phantom.gatech.edu>
Graham E. Thomas, grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu
writes: > Alright, beat this automobile
sighting.

I can top that one.  Friday afternoon 4-16-93 I
look out my window in Long Beach CA.  What do I
see but the new Ferrari.  I looks like a mix
between the ragtop testarossa (sp?) and the batman
car.  It seems Ferrari had their Annual dinner
at the place downstairs.  Sweet car.


J.B.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103001
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

 sorry about that last post, my server neglected to send the message:

 Can we please keep this group to AUTOMOTIVE topics. Thank you.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103003
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:

>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>>I am quite interested in it.
>>>Thanks!
>>>Darren Gibbons
>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>>	
>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????

>Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
>chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
>be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.

>Craig

	I think the Manta is the European name for the "GT."  I'm pretty sure
that the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans.  I think the
GT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta.  
-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103004
From: maynard@convex.com (Mark Maynard)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>
>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.
>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>	
>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????
>	Chintan Amin


Sounds more like an Opel GT.  Neat cars, fun to drive.  Sold through
Buick from 196? through 1973 (if I remember correctly).  I believe it
was in '72 that there were some engine mods made such that parts
were not interchangeable with the older models.  Parts are thus much
harder to come by for the later models.  Parts in general are not
too difficult to find.  At one time JC Whitney carried some stuff
including a brand new (not remfg) long block.  Either a GT or a
Kharman Ghia (hmm that spelling looks hosed) will be my next project.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103005
From: stecz@pencom.com (John Steczkowski)
Subject: Re: $6700 for hail damage - a record?

In article <1993Apr19.235711.7285@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)  
writes:
> 
> 
> My 90 Integra was hit hard in the 3/25 hailstorm in Austin, TX. 
> The insurance company cut me a check for $6600 ($100 deductible)
> last week.  Is this a record? Anybody else had settlements from
> the same hailstorm yet?
> 
> Craig


Rumor has it that a guy at Dell Computer had his Miata totalled, so that would  
be about $10k.


--
--
  John Steczkowski                        stecz@pencom.com
    The Constitution grants you the right to life, liberty, and the
    *pursuit* of happiness.  It does not attempt to guarantee that
    everyone *will* be happy.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103006
From: hm002b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Hasit Mehta)
Subject: New '94 Talon?????

In article:

Is there such a thing as the new '94 Eagle Talon? I heard from a freind that
the new '94 Talons have been released? Is this true and if so what are the
differences between the '93 and '94? Any opinions? I would appreciate any
replies and I would also prefer E-mail, thanks!

-- 
Hasit S. Mehta                           ****************************
University of Rochester                  *       PRIMUS SUCKS!      *
hm002b@UHURA.CC.ROCHESTER.EDU            ****************************
______"I do believe in Captain Crunch, for I am the frizzle fry"______

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103007
From: tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <C5u5Fy.Hvx@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tspila@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tim Spila {Romulan}) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.034751.23512@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> mgqlu@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Max Lu) writes:
>>We are working on gas-solid adsorption air-con system for auto applications.
>>In this kind of system, the energy for regenerating the adsorbent is from 
>>the exhaust gas.  Anyone interested in this mail email me or follow up this
>>thread, we may have a discussion on prospects of this technology.
>
>Ok, I'll bite.  How is this supposed to work?
>
>Tim.

Better still, years ago they demonstrated a cold air system which only used
"air". It was called a Rovax. The unit worked very well, the short coming
was the seal technology. Where is it today?

AT

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103008
From: hacker@cco.caltech.edu (Jonathan Bruce Hacker)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon - Rovax

tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:

>Better still, years ago they demonstrated a cold air system which only used
>"air". It was called a Rovax. The unit worked very well, the short coming
>was the seal technology. Where is it today?

As I recall from reading posts here a while back, Rovax (Rovacs?) died
because it was larger and noisier than the competing cheap R12 systems
of it day.  Probably a case of bad timing.  I think the system would
have a better chance today now that R12 systems are on death row, but
investors may be hard to come by a second time.

-- 
Jon Hacker                         |  Get the OS/2 2.1 March Beta CD-ROM 
Caltech, Pasadena CA               |  for $20  ---  Call 1-800-3-IBM-OS2 
hacker@tumbler-ridge.caltech.edu   |  Read about it in comp.os.os2.beta

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103009
From: damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

hanguyen@megatest.com (Ha Nguyen) writes:

>In article <1993Apr14.203800.12566@progress.com> damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio) writes:
>>bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss) writes:
>>
>>>You could take a screw driver and hammer and start punching holes in
>>>various locations and when some black slippery stuff starts pouring
>>>out then you would know that the oil drain plug is nearby (within a foot
>>>or two anyway). Close the holes with toilet paper before refileing with oil
>>>though.
>>
>>You have to *refill* the engine with oil! Wow, no wonder I can't get
>>an engine to last more than my first oil change. Don't forget to
>>punch holes in the radiator too, it will spray nice refreshing water
>                    ^^^^^^^^
>>on the engine and keep it nice & cool. ;-)
>>
>>-Steve

>Gee, you really make me confused.  What is radiator?  Where is it located?
>What does it look like?  Will it release any radiation (since it sounds 
>like radia-tion genera-tor) when you punch holes?


Of course it releases radiation! Thats why your car goes faster when
you punch the holes in it. All that radiation gets on your engine
and gives it "pep" (scientific term). You get more horsepower &
torque too! If you don't know what HP & torque are, you can read
mile long threads on the subject, but they are all wrong. Horsepower
is how much power a horse can make pulling a Subaru, and torque is
a name invented by Craftsman for a wrench.

-Steve


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103010
From: williac@govonca.gov.on.ca (Chris Williams)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In <smN42B1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore) writes:

>tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:

>> In article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU> ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Vel
>> >This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
>> >Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
>> >throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
>> >cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
>> >a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
>> >in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
>> >made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
>> >doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.
>> >
>> >What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
>> >can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
>> >20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
>> >
>> >Erik velapold
>> 
>> Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason
>> is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is
>> "No Big Deal". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort 
>> children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised
>> when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the
>> message they hear is "Life is Cheap"!
>> 
>> AT

>Well people fortunatly or unfortunatly ,
>only the US is experiencing the devaluation of human life (among 
>developed nations).

>I am an American but I was raised in Europe, where the worst thing that 
>can happen to somebody is get his car broken into, or have his pocket
>picked by Slaves or Russian refugees.

>Of cource there will be some nutcases, but thats extremely rare.

>I.e. in Greece you can walk through any neighborhood at any time during
>the night without even worrying.

>In Germany , you can walk the sidewalks at 4.00 am and not even look 
>behind your back, at the sanitation crews that clean the streets to a 
>sparkling cleen.

>Whoever of you have been there you know what I am saying.

>I dont have any easy answers but if we as a nation do some selfcritisism
>we might get somewhere.

>Of course these postings sould be in soc.culture.US but if we reduce
>crime here it 'll mean less car insurance rates ,thus we could spend
>more money on modifing our cars. (Now my posting is rec.autos.tech 
>revelant).

>Vlasis  Theodore

>___________________
>Software Engineer
>IDB Mobile Communications.

>Sig under development ...

I remember this happening on the I-75 through Michigan and Ohio several
years back. A group of guys in an old beater would rear end a car,
usually out of state or Canadians. You stop and they smack you with a BB
bat. At least they didn't kill you for the sake of a car.
I think the cops put out decoys and this calmed down for a while.

Vlasis, are you safe walking through Germany if you are a refugee ? 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103011
From: sekell@bb1t.monsanto.com
Subject: Monthly Posting: Buick Grand National/Regal T-Type mailing list


Monthly posting regarding the Buick Grand National / Regal T-Type mailing list.

This list is for owners and other parties interested in the 82-87 Buick Grand
Nationals, Regal T-Types, GNXs, and other turbocharged Regals. Discussions 
include technical information and parts sources. Particular emphasis is given 
to performance enhancements and racing.
 
	To join, or ask, about the mailing list, contact:

		gnttype-request@srvsn2.monsanto.com

  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Scott Keller	+1 314 537 6317	    The Agricultural Group of Monsanto Company 
  sekell@bb1t.monsanto.com  	KA0WCH		packet: ka0wch@k0pfx.mo.usa.na
	Keeper of the Buick Grand National / Regal T-Type mailing list

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103012
From: wiggs@stsci.edu (Michael S. Wiggs)
Subject: Ignition kill


I just wanted to thank all the netters out there who either
posted a response or sent e-mail regarding my ignition kill
question. Now that I know how simple a procedure it is, it
looks like I'll be paying my local Pep Boys a visit this
weekend....

-Mik

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103013
From: jcyuhn@crchh574.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (James Yuhn)
Subject: Re: SHO clutch question (grinding noise?)

In article <5243@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
|> In article <C5H6F8.LDu@news.rich.bnr.ca> jcyuhn@crchh574.NoSubdomain.NoDomain
|> (James Yuhn) writes:
|> >   That's not the clutch you're hearing, its the gearbox. Early SHOs have
|> >   a lot of what is referred to as 'gear rollover' noise. You can generally
|> 
|> 	I have one of the first SHOs built, and _mine_ doesn't make
|> this noise.
|> 

   Geez wharfie, do you have to be so difficult? Mine was built in December
'88,
   which qualifies as pretty dang early, and it most certainly grinds away.
 
   Jim 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103014
From: wiggs@stsci.edu (Michael S. Wiggs)
Subject: Kubelwagen


The answer to your question is...sort of. Volkswagen had a
much less robust version of this army vehicle out in the
early '70's (or thereabouts). It was called the Volskwagen
Thing, and was, of course, a convertible. I havent seen
many around then or now. Good luck...
-Mik

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103015
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In <1993Apr15.040118.29272@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:

>In article <C5HHGM.1rM@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr13.215605.26252@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>>>
>>>How about those really ugly fake wheel compartments stuck onto the
>>>trunk or side (or both sides!) of some tacky luxury cars?
>>
>>Some of 'em aren't fake (if you're talking about the Continental kit,
>>named after the Lincoln Continental, the first car to sport one). I
>>personally would _love_ to have a '56 T-Bird with a Continental kit
>>(and the supercharged V-8 :-); that is one of the most beautiful
>>cars ever built, IMHO.

I'd go for a '39 Lincoln Continental if I could find one. Sad part is
that Edsel Ford designed it, and look at the abortion they named after
him. Ain't no justice.


>Okay, I'll admit it looks nice on the T-Bird (as a previous owner
>of 1967 and 1968 Thunderbirds, I'm biased anyway).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103016
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In <24485@drutx.ATT.COM> klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL) writes:

>In article <C5HHGM.1rM@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>| In article <1993Apr13.215605.26252@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>| >In article <1q4466INNb85@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>| >>
>| >>It's a big aftermarket business.  Almost no cars come from the factory with
>| >>vynal any more, and any fake "convertible" job _definitely_ came from some
>| >>aftermarket place.  What amazes me is how much people are willing to pay for
>| >>bad taste
>| >
>| >How about those really ugly fake wheel compartments stuck onto the
>| >trunk or side (or both sides!) of some tacky luxury cars?
>| 
>| Some of 'em aren't fake (if you're talking about the Continental kit,
>| named after the Lincoln Continental, the first car to sport one). I
>| personally would _love_ to have a '56 T-Bird with a Continental kit
>| (and the supercharged V-8 :-); that is one of the most beautiful
>| cars ever built, IMHO.
>| 
>| 				James
>| 

>The Continental may have been the first "modern era" auto to mount the
>spare on the rear of the car but it was hardly the first car to sport one.
>Various mounting techniques for rear mounting the spare were quite common
>in early automobiles, both US and Foreign.
>--
Right. In the thirties both Buick and Packard had two spares mounted in
wells in the front fenders. Of course that was back when the front
fenders were long enough to provide room. There were a couple of other
marques that did this as well, but memory fades.

>Ken Franklin 	They say there's a heaven for people who wait
>AMA     	And some say it's better but I say it ain't
>GWRRA           I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
>DoD #0126       The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103017
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In <C5HI0B.26C@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:

>In article <1993Apr13.220105.26409@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>>In article <93Apr08.202003.27851@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>>>As a long time motorcyclist, I have never understood what
>>>posessed auto builders to put delicate controls, which must
>>>be used with skill and finesse, like clutches and brakes,
>>>on the floor.
>>>
>>>Why not hand control? It's much much easier.
>>
>>In the early days, neither of these functions had power-assist, so
>>only legs had enough strength to activate them.  Since then, it's
>>been traditional and people would have a hard time getting
>>used to anything else.  

>Well, where, exactly, would you put a hand clutch and brake? On
>a motorcycle, it's easy; the handlebars have a very limited
>range of turning. Steering wheels, on the other hand, turn around
>and around and around...which is fine for electrical relays (like
>your cruise control and airbag)--but how many of you want to
>lose your clutch and/or brake due to a short circuit?

Shades of the Edsel! They had pushbuttons in the steering wheel hub
that controlled the auto tranny. It was very disconcerting to shift
into reverse when turning a corner and the wires shorted.

>There are workarounds, but there's really no reason to use hand
>power on a car's clutch or brakes, and lightening them to the
>point that they are "finesse" controls suitable for hand use
>would increse the mechanical complexity substantially (look at
>power brakes and non-power brakes for an example).

>>I saw an experimental car that had a joystick instead of a steering
>>wheel...

>That's about useless, IMHO. 

>>>Another automotive oddity is separate keys for trunks, doors, and
>>>ignitions. Why on earth would you want this?
>>
>>I know *I* don't.

>I want a separate trunk key for security reasons; it gives me a totally
>separate, lockable container. For door and ignition....ehhh, the same key's
>OK, I guess.

>				James

>James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
>Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
>DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
>		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
>   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
>	and all he's ever gonna have." 
>			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103018
From: SteveWall@aol.com (Steve Wall)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr15.173851.25846@convex.com>, tobias@convex.com (Allen
Tobias) wrote:
> 
> 
> Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason
> is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is
> "No Big Deal". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort 
> children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised
> when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the
> message they hear is "Life is Cheap"!
> 
I think this is getting a little overheated.  Highway robbers have been a
part of life since the Middle Ages at least.  It's human nature to look
at history through rose colored glasses, but random acts of violence have
been a ceaseless part of our heritage.  Overall, life is better now than it
ever was then.  It's just that random individual acts of violence have
never
been historically significant, and record keeping in the past was never
good
enough to retain them all.  

Steve Wall

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103019
From: tjz6624@zeus.tamu.edu (ZINGALE, THOMAS J)
Subject: Re: 86 chevy sprint

In article <wfnMBJG00WBOE3L2c0@andrew.cmu.edu>, Srinagesh Gavirneni <sg48+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes...
>I have a 86 chevy sprint with a/c and 4doors. It's odometer turned 90k
>and the sensor light started blinking. I went to the dealer and he said
>it was a maintenance light saying I need to change the Oxygen sensor. He
>said, It is to be changed every 30k, but since I bought the car when it
>had 77k, I don't know if the same thing happened at 30k and 60k.  He
>quoted $198 for the part and $50 to install it. The part cost $30
>outside, but the mechanic I went to could not fix it saying the sensor
>is placed too deep in the engine parts. He suggested I wait till it
>malfunctions before I do anything.  If anyone out there owns a chevy
>sprint, I want to know how they got their Oxygen sensors changed. Also,
>did you face any problem with fixing it without the dealer's help. Also,
>what are the results of the oxygen sensor malfunction. 
>  Any help would be greatly apprecisted
>   Thanks

>      Nagesh
I have owned my Sprint from the beginning and that sensor light comes on every
30K to let you know it's time for a check up.  When that light goes on, I just
take it to the delaer tell them "It's that time" and they work on it for 4 hou
and you pay $5 for parts and $100 for labor. (Ahh...what they get for labor)
I currently have about 95K on my Sprint and of all the times I took it in for
service, I never say on the payment sheet anything about the replacement of the
Oxygen sensor.  What the heck is an Oxygen sensor?  As far an I know of, I have
never had that thing replaced in my car and the car is purring like a kitten.
Now, I don't have a/c (Mother Nature does that for me :-) ) and that might have
something to do with it, but I still never heard of an Oxygen sensor.  The only
MAJOR service job I have had on my car (besides getting the tires replaced
if you want to call that a service job) was getting the Rotor, Distributor and
Gasket replaced.  And that was all done within the past 2 months.  

What I do at 30K is have a good tune-up, let them replace what ever they need
to, pay the bill (about $125) and go home and don't worry about the car for
another 30K.  Oh, I just remembered something.  If that little sensor light
bothers you, in the fuse box right below the turn-signal lever up against
the dash, there is a swith on the right side.  Flip that switch and the light
will go off.  I do that so that little light won't annoy me.  If you can't
find it, look it up in the car manuel.  I hope that I have helped a little
and good luck with the _Oxygen sensor_?

				- Thomas -

******************************************************************************
*  E-Mail Address: 		  *  "Give me an an army of West Point,      *
*	TJZ6624@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU	  *   graduates and I'll win a battle...     *
*				  *   Give me a handful of Texas Aggies,     *
*  "Creator of MOT POWER!"	  *   and I'll win a war."                   *
*				  *	  - Gen. George S. Patton            *
******************************************************************************



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103021
From: jimiii@nimbus.com (Jim Warford)
Subject: Re: electronic odometers (was: Used BMW Question ..... ???)

In article <13269@news.duke.edu> klg@mookie.mc.duke.edu (Kim Greer) writes:
>
>  I was wondering if anyone can shed any light on just how it is that these
>electronic odometers remember the total elapsed mileage?  What kind of
>memory is stable/reliable enough, non-volatile enough and independent enough
>(of outside battery power) to last say, 10 years or more, in the life of a
>vehicle?  I'm amazed that anything like this could be expected to work for
>this length of time (especially in light of all the gizmos I work with that
>are doing good to work for 2 months without breaking down somehow).
>
MK48T02 from thomsom.  It has a timekeeper (clock) and 512 bytes of NVRAM which
has a lithium battery backup.  The battery has a life of ~10 years of poweroff
operation.  Installed in a car it could be left powered on continuously and not
draw much current.  The battery would only be used when your auto battery was
dead or had been removed.

>Side question:  how about the legal ramifications of selling a used car with
>a replaced odometer that starts over at 0 miles, after say 100/200/300K
>actual miles.  Looks like fraud would be fairly easy - for the price of a
>new odometer, you can say it has however many miles you want to tell the
>buyer it has.

In California they have a line on the transfer of ownership form which states
that the odometer mileage is correct.  If incorrect you are required to 
fill in what you know (or guesstimate) to be the correct mileage.  If you
lie on this form and are caught you can be prosecuted and the buyer can
sue you for the value of the mileage differential.
-- 
Faster Horses
Younger Women
Older Whiskey
More Money!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103022
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: RE Aftermarket A/C units

>Les Bartel's comments:
>>>>Sorry I can't help you with your question, but I do have a comment to
>>make concerning aftermarket A/C units.  I have a Frost-King or Frost-Temp
>>(forget which) aftermarket unit on my Cavalier, and am quite unhappy with
>>it.  The fan is noisy, and doesn't put out much air.  I will never have
>>an aftermarket A/C installed in any of my vehicles again.  I just can't
>>trust the quality and performance after this experience.
>> - les
>
>Let me add my .02 in. I had a A/C installed by the Ford garage and it did not
>work as well as the A/C that was installed by the factory in pickups 
>identical to mine. I have talked to other people that have had the same
>result. Don't know if this is just a probable with Ford or what??
>
>	Ernie Smith

i agree, *never* have the dealer add anything to your car.  if you want a/c
make sure it is factory installed(honda's maybe excluded, many can't be 
bought with a/c installed at the factory, but i think, maybe, they actually
use all the needed parts for a true factory install when they put one in...as
in bigger radiator etc...or are designed properly for this in the 1st place),
anyway, my point is the dealer installed a/c won't be anywhere near as good
as factory *and* the service bums will mess up your car when installing it...
scratches, screwdriver holes in seats...parts not reinstalled correctly or 
with all the screws etc.  i know a guy who has been service manager at a gm
dealer for 18 years...he said never have a dealer add anything to your car...
except, maybe, floormats...



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103023
From: ciarlett@mizar.usc.edu (Joni Ciarletta)
Subject: Master Cylinder


Thanks to everyone who responded to my Honda Accord break question.
It does seem that the master cylinder is bad. I will have my
mechanic double check and be sure it isn't something simpler
and cheaper first, but from your responses it sounds like it
is very likely to be the master cylinder.

Thanks everyone!!

Joni

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103024
From: davec@ECE.Concordia.CA (Dave Chu)
Subject: WANTED: OPINIONS ON 75 MG 

I was wondering if anyone out in net-land have any opinions on MGs
in general.  I know they are not the most reliable cars around but
summer is approaching and they are convertibles `8^).  I'm interested
in a 75 MG but any opinions on MGs would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Dave 
                                          |\ |     | |                       
___________________________/\  /\  /\_____| \|_____| |_____   ___  ___   ___
  Dave Kai-Chui Chu          \/  \/       | /|     | |       |    |     |
  Dept. of Elec. & Comp. Eng.             |/ |     | |       |--  |     |--
  Concordia University                  Voice:(514)848-3115  |___ |___  |___
  1455 de Maisonneuve W. H915           Fax:  (514)848-2802
  Montreal, Quebec, Canada H3G 1M8      Email:davec@ece.concordia.ca
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103025
From: tgardner@athena.mit.edu (Timothy J Gardner)
Subject: Re: another Taurus SHO question

In article <1993Apr14.064702.26925@reed.edu> rseymour@reed.edu writes:

>The Taurus SHO (for those who can get it straight, it is S-H-O as in Super 
>High Output, not SHO as in show) has a Yamaha 3.0L DOHC (24 valves) SHO V-6. 

Having spoken to technical staff from Ford many times, I can assure you that 
internally at Ford this car is always called the Taurus "Show" or just  
"the Show".  As in long "o" sound.  I still refer to it as the "S-H-O",
however, because it sounds better to me. I assume many purist fans and owners 
prefer using the Ford lingo.  

Tim Gardner


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103026
From: reid@ucs.indiana.edu (Frank Reid)
Subject: Re: The Kuebelwagen??!!          

In article <C5K5Co.F09@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:
>	Sorry for the mis-spelling, but I forgot how to spell it after 
>my series of exams and NO-on hand reference here.
>
>	Is it still possible to get those cute WWII VW Jeep-wanna-be's?
>A replica would be great I think.  
>
>							-TKH '93

The VW "Thing" Kubelwagen lookalike is still manufactured in Mexico and 
possibly South America.  Good luck importing one--  They probably don't meet 
US safety and pollution requirements.  There are mechanics and junkyards 
which specialize in VW; they might be helpful for finding a "Thing" unless 
the WWII re-enacters have grabbed them all.

The WWII Kubelwagen was the German equivalent of the Jeep, but was not 4-
wheel drive.  One is on display at the Patton Museum at Fort Knox, Kentucky, 
also the rare "Schwimwagen" (sp?) amphibious version, in full-scale dioramas.
Highly recommended!

--

Frank     reid@ucs.indiana.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103027
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <1993Apr15.222600.11690@research.nj.nec.com>  
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes:
>  ...
> 	Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for
> R12.  You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning  
Society
> (MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per
> retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash  
those
> R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very  
shaky
> technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst).
>  ...

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong because I know that the R-12 substitutes  
exist, but this sounds a lot like the 200mpg carbs that the oil companies  
keep us all from getting.

Mark


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103028
From: mgqlu@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Max Lu)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon


It is actually simple in principle. Porous adsorbents like zeolite and
activated carbon can adsorb gases evaporated from the adsorbate (water
or methanol, etc.) giving the cooling effect.  Upon being heated, the 
gas-saturated adsorbent bed will give off the gases which are then to be
condensed.  This forms the adsorption refrigeration cycle.  The only problem
is that the COP is very low (0.2 -0.6).  

Max

-- 
Max G Q Lu, PhD 				|  Internet: mgqlu@ntu.ac.sg
Division of Thermal Enginerring			|  Bitnet: mgqlu@ntuvax.bitnet
School of MPE, Nanyang Technological University |  Phone: (65) 7994818
Nanyang Avenue, Singapore 2263			|  Fax:   (65) 7911859

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103029
From: tmspence@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas morris spencer)
Subject: Are there any Honda groups?



Are there any Honda groups out there?  Especially ones that deal with
Preludes?

Tom Spencer

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103030
From: jwg@SEDV1.acd4.acd.com (jwg)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <C5HqJ0.57@unix.amherst.edu>, bhtulin@unix.amherst.edu (Barak H. Tulin) gives forth:
>I just started reading this thread today, so forgive me if it has already been
>mentioned.  But...what was the deal with Renault's putting the horn on the
>left-hand turn-signal stalk?  It was a button on the end, where the washer
>button would be on the wiper/washer stalk.  Could the Frenchies not figure
>out the wiring through the steering wheel, or what?

Had an '83 Alliance for a long time.  It was a comfortable but sluggish
car.  I got very used to the horn on the stalk, after a couple months worth
of getting used to it.  After I bought my next car, a Chevy, it took me
for-EVER to get used to the horn on the steering wheel again!

jim grey
jwg@acd4.acd.com

Up the Irons!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103031
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)


In a previous article, crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Christian Huebner) says:

>brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:
>
>>I think he's talking about a different form of rush. Evidently, it's fun to be
>>terrified. But hey, if you want that kind of rush, try bobsledding. You may
>>only get up to 80 or so, but it makes 130 in a car feel like a stroll in the
>>park.
>
>Why should a good driver be terrified at 130mph? The only thing I fear
>going at 130 are drivers, who switch to the left lane without using
>either rear-view-mirror or flashers. Doing 130 to 150 ain't a rush
>for me, but it's fun and I get where I want to go much faster.
>
>But in one point You are quite right. If You are terrified at 130 You
>should better not drive that fast, or You'll be a hazard to others.
>
>BTW, before You flame me, read my E-Mail address. I know what I'm 
>talking about, as I live in Germany.
>
>>- BK
>
>Chris    crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de

not a flame, just a point:  I'd be scared at 130 here, not because i feel
_I_  or my car couldn't handle it, but because of exactly what you said:
drivers who are STUPID.  Like the ones who are doing 130 also, and so
they pull in right behind you at maybe 1-2 car lengths....oh yeah, real
smart...  This scares me in cities at 50.  When i can't see enough of
the car to make it recognizable, they are following TOO CLOSE.  And 
when i see them doing this AND reading a newspaper.....*sigh*...this
is why America has 55-65 speed limits: our drivers are TOO DUMB to realise
that reading the paper should be done at breakfast, or work, not in their
car.  

my thoughts..
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103032
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <1993Apr15.234508.20032@slcs.slb.com>  
dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>   ...(relates an experience similar to mine) ...
> Then comes the part I wish I could have videotaped.  As we go out
> the front door, the sales manager SHOUTS across the entire showroom,
> customers and all, "Go ahead!  You DESERVE to buy a Nissan!"
> So my friend bought a Sentra.
> ...

This kind of behavior is what I was shocked by in my 'experience'. For  
crying out loud, how do these turkeys think they can talk to customers  
this way and still stay in business? Again, I don't expect sales people to  
bow, scrape, and grovel in my presence but I sure don't expect to be  
abused either. I was very surprised by the way the sales people talked to  
me and in other 'negotiating' sessions I overheard in neighboring sales  
cubicles. Evidently, their success rate is high enough that they continue  
to do business this way. There must be a lot of people out there who are  
easy to intimidate.

On the other hand, I'm not sure about the 'one price, no haggling'  
approach that Saturn and other are starting to use. I guess if their fixed  
price is fair it's OK. Maybe the best approach is to do your homework  
before you go in. Find out the invoice prices of the car, add a reasonable  
profit for the dealer ($200-$300??), offer them that price and stick to  
it. If they get abusive, just leave. Then, don't let them try to screw you  
after the deal is agreed on.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103033
From: bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

In article <1993Apr14.140642.19875@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:
>
>Well, I guess I know for sure what I meant, and it is this:  I don't know where
>you drive, but around here freeways are often clogged solid with large packs
>of semis, trucks, and cars of all descriptions.  When I close on one of these
>rolling clusterf***s on the highway, I have no desire to add my vehicle to this
>rolling accident looking for a place to happen. If there were any way to pass it
>I WOULD BE PASSING MYSELF, however I can't.      As I posted before, all it
>takes is a blown tire, or some moron tramping on the brakes to turn this pack 
>into a cloud of shredded metal, flying glass, and burning vehicles.   I want to
>maintain enough free space between myself and this mess to at least have a
>minimal chance to avoid a mass crash. That means maintaining a clear space 
>between me and it.
>However, there is no end of shortdriving morons who are dying to pass so they
>can add themselves and their car to the bodycount.  That wouldn't bother me so
>much except that after letting enough of these morons pass me and glue themselves
>to the pack ahead, my interval is filled up. Trying to back off further does not 
>work because the road behind me has filled up, trapping my car right into an ever
>increasing pack.  Now, if there was any slight possibility that there was a lane
>open ahead, I'd be glad to move over. But, there usually is no way in hell that
>anybody is going anywhere. So, I block the would-be passers. Not only for my own
>good , but theirs as well even though they are often too stupid to realize it.
>

Just an comment:  I don't like it when people decide what's good for me...
If you think you're going to decide anything for me, you'd better be 
carrying a badge and a gun.  Who made you capable of determining if there
is "no way in hell that anybody is going anywhere"?  Why do you find 
it necessary to add to the problem instead of just minding your own 
business?  If someone is minding their own business, I will give them
all the room they want, and I'll try to make things easy for them, even
letting them in in front of me if they ask politely (with a directional).
On the other hand, if someone like you decides they want to block me and
be a general asshole, you can bet your ass that I'll make life as 
miserable as possible for you, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else
who's minding their own business.  
They have a phrase to describe someone like you:
Self Appointed Traffic Police.
Just mind your own business and stay in the right lane where you belong.

>As a rule of philosophy, I don't feel particularly sorry when somebody gets 
>offed by his own stupidity, but It does worry me when some idiot is in a position
>to cash in my chips, too.
>
>                                                           H.H. Mayo


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ___          
       / _ \                 '85 Mustang GT                        Bob Pitas
      /    /USH              14.13 @ 99.8                      bpita@ctp.com
     / /| \                  Up at NED, Epping, NH           (Cambridge, MA)

                           "" - Geddy Lee (in YYZ)
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103034
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <1993Apr15.222254.6651@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grays
on Walker) writes:
>Why crawl under the car at all? I have a machine I got for my boat that
>pulls the oil out under suction through the dip stick tube. It does an
>excellent job and by moving the suction tube around, you can get more
>old oil out than by using the drain plug. I think I paid $25 at E&B Marine.
>The oil goes into a steel 3 gal can - wait until it cools and decant into
>your favorite device. I use soft drink bottles. Easy to take them down to
>the local oil recycle center.


Yeah I suppose you could do that.  But then you don't get the broken knuckles,
the rust in your eyes, the oil bath, and the burns from the exhaust.

I mean come on!...

Steve

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103035
From: bobml@mxmsd.msd.measurex.com (Bob LaGesse)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.193712.25996@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:
> In article <1993Apr15.020356.28944@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
> >I take the electrodes of the Amp/Ohm/Volt meter whatever and connect one
> >to each earlobe.  Then, symmetrically insert my fingers in each of the
> >spark plug boots. No cheating guys!  both hands must be used!
> 
> I have just a couple of questions about this technique.
> 
> First, what firing order should I use?  Do I start with my pointer
> finger or my pinky?  Left hand or right?
> 
> And secondly, I have a 12cyl and there are two cylinders unaccounted
> for.  Any suggestions?
> 
> /andy
> 
 
How about your two big toes?  And while you're at it, why bother with removing
the drain plug when you could remove the dipstick instead and suck it out from
there with your mouth and then spit it out?

-- 
Domain: bobml@msd.measurex.com    Bob LaGesse, Senior Software Engineer
  UUCP: ...!uunet!mxmsd!bobml     Measurex/Management Systems Division
 Voice: (513) 825-3931 X303       1280 Kemper Meadow Drive
   Fax: (513) 825-5393            Cincinnati, Ohio 45240, USA

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103036
From: kastle@bernoulli.WPI.EDU (Jacques W Brouillette)
Subject: Re: ARCTIC WHEELS AUTO SHOW

-- 
 : I want only two things from this world, a 58 Plymouth and a small  : 
 : OPEC nation with which to fuel it.  This would be a good and just  :
 : thing.  Car Smashers can just go home and sulk.                    :
 :        Jacques Brouillette ---  Manufacturing Engineering          :

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103037
From: brian@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Brian Donnell)
Subject: Re: Dealer cheated me with wrong odometer reading. Need help!

I don't know about where you are, but here in California false
representation
of odometer readings is a criminal felony. If you can substantiate this,
you need to report that dealer to the local authorities. You should consult
with a lawyer to tell you what civil action you can take as well. Keep in
mind that you will have to prove that the dealer was aware of the change in
the dashboard.

Brian Donnell

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103038
From: mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

In <C5t3B2.DG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:

>boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:

>>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>>>I am quite interested in it.
>>>>Thanks!
>>>>Darren Gibbons
>>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>>>	
>>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????

>>Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
>>chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
>>be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.

>>Craig

>	I think the Manta is the European name for the "GT."  I'm pretty sure
>that the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans.  I think the
>GT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta.  
>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Bzzt.
The manta was a two-door sedan in the US.
It had a 1900 engine.
Was sometimes referred to as an Opel 1900.
Manta's are also ve hot and fun cars too.



















-- 
/-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-\
| |\/|  __   -=> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu <=- (mliggett@iugold.bitnet  |
* |  |/\||   'junk' collector, toys R us kid, antiauthoritarian, and fan of   *
| frogs, iguanas, and other herps.					      |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103039
From: awelker@watarts.uwaterloo.ca (a welker)
Subject: Aftermarket exhausts for BMW 320i

I am in the process of looking for a half decent aftermarket sport exhaust
for my 1981 BMW 320i. So far, I have found a Pacesetter exhaust for $219
and an Ansa exhaust for $190 (Canadian funds). I was wondering if anyone
could tell me anyhting about either of these exhausts or any other possible
exhausts that I may be interested in. My main priorities are a decent horse
power increase (5-30%) and a nice low note to go along with that added power.
I was also thinking of looking into both Remus and Leistritz exhausts.Has 
anyone got anything to say about these? I am mainly looking for the muffler
only but if anyone can find a good deal on a whole kit I would be willing to
go after that. I also would like to know how much these would cost me in the 
States.Please mail me back if you have any information.

Mike Welker


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103040
From: dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff)
Subject: Re: Waxing a new car

I just had my 41 Chrysler painted. I was told to refrain from waxing it and
to leave it out in the sun!! Supposedly this let's the volatiles escape from
the paint over a month or so (I can smell it 15 feet away on a hot day) and
lets any slight irregularites in the surface flow out, as the paint remains
a little soft for a while.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103041
From: jcorry@erasure_sl.cc.emory.edu (Jeremy Corry)
Subject: MBenz 300 series, VW Passat

--
My boss is interested in a new 300 series Mercedes Benz wagon.
Does anyone have any testimonial evidence and/or strong opinions
on this car (or line)?

Particularly, I would like to hear about power (manual t. only)
reliability, feel, and any unusually good or bad features of the
line.

She currently drives a VW Passat, and is being plagued by its
electrical problems.  The dealer claims there is nothing wrong,
even though the doors have a habit of locking and unlocking them-
selves while you are driving down the road.  The automatic shoulder
restraints also like to move back and forth as you move along.
She does not have the new, larger engine and is quite
dissatisfied with its lack of power.

The MB wagon would have to have more power and no peculiar problems
such as the Passat's electrical system.  She is also considering
a Saab 9000 (add some letters).  Any comparisons between the 9000
line and the Mercedes would be helpful.

Price is not an impediment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy J. Corry                    | Churchill claimed the traditions  
jcorry@erasure_sl.cc.emory.edu     | of the navy are rum, mutiny, and
                          __       | sodomy.
                          \/                                             
     My opinions are my own, but I probably got them from someone else. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103042
From: <SYST8145@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca>
Subject: Van step... Van Accessory Help


Hello Netters,

I would like to find out information about a device that is used on vans and
trucks. This device is a step that hooks onto the tire and folds up for
storage. I've seen this device on TNN's Shady Tree Mechanic. I would like to
know if it is a good product and I would also like the price and address
of where I can purchase this product.

Thanks,

George Chan
Email: syst8145@ryevm.ryerson.ca

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103043
From: aep@world.std.com (Andrew E Page)
Subject: Re: Importing Volvo?


   There was an article in Business week not more the 4 weeks ago
on this very subject.  IN fact the Volvo 850 was one of the cars
they laid out an example for.  

-- 
Andrew E. Page   (Warrior Poet) |   Decision and Effort The Archer and Arrow
Mac Consultant                  |     The difference between what we are
Macintosh and DSP Technology    |           and what we want to be.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103044
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <1qehi6$ork@armory.centerline.com>, jimf@centerline.com (Jim 
Frost) writes:
> Ok, I'll give you a few reasons:
> 
> 1. Neither car was designed to turn at those speeds.
> 2. Neither car was designed to stop quickly from those speeds.
> 3. Safety mechanisms were not designed for impacts at those speeds.
> 4. An uncontrolled environment leads to unpredictable circumstances
>    where you might need to turn or stop with no notice.


Do you, by any chance own an SHO or have access to one, such that you
would have any idea what it is designed for or how it handles?

Just wondering...


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com or 74616.2237@compuserve.com
SHO  GOZE

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103045
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <1r1vofINN871@usenet.pa.dec.com> tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!) writes:
>	Are there any MR2 owners or motor-head gurus out there, that know why
>my MR2's engine sounds noisy? The MR2's engine is noisy at the best of times, 
>but not even a nice nose - it's one of those very ugly noises. 

assuming yours is a non turbo MR2, the gruffness is characteristic of
a large inline 4 that doesn't have balance shafts.  i guess toyota
didn't care about "little" details like that when they can brag about
the mid engine configuration and the flashy styling.

myself, i automatically cross out any car from consideration (or
recommendation) which has an inline 4 larger than 2 liters and no
balance shafts..  it is a good rule of thumb to keep in mind if you
ever want a halfway decent engine.  

if the noise really bugs you, there is nothing else that you can do
except to sell it and get a V6.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103046
From: tomm@hank.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5JoIt.E31@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> neil@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Neil Williams) writes:
>As long as we're on the subject... Several years ago myself and two others
>were riding in the front of a Toyota pickup heading south on Interstate 5
>north of Seattle, WA. Someone threw a rock of an overpass and hit our
>windshield. Not by accident I'm sure, it was impossible to get up to the
>overpass quickly to see who did it. We figured it was kids, reported it and
>left.
>A couple of years ago it happend again and killed a guy at my company. He was
>in his mid-fourties and left behind a wife and children. Turned out there was
>a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old
>that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do?

Execute the juvi on the grounds of the reformatory, required attendendence
by the rest of the inmates, as soon as possible after the incident and a
quick sure trial.  I am quite serious.  Cause and effect.  Nothing else
will ever make a dent.

>I don't think I'll over forget this story.
>Neil Williams, Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA.

Me neither.


-- 
Tom Mackey          (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.ca.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services               ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,       P.O. Box 24346,       Seattle, WA       98124-0346

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103047
From: tomm@hank.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <NEILSON.93Apr15135919@seoul.mpr.ca> neilson@seoul.mpr.ca (Robert Neilson) writes:
>[sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]
>
>> That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselves
>> and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is 
>> imminent.
>>
>> Steve Heracleous
>
>You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
>go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
>job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
>me - those kids are mean.

That is absolutely correct.  They have a streak of meanness that runs much
deeper and stronger than anything I ever experienced even during the height
of the 60's racial struggles.  I am absolutely convinced that there are
kids out there today that have no concept of right and wrong, but have the
human intelligence which is turning them into the greatest predators that
have ever walked the earth.  They will prevail unless the rest of humanity
decides that it is in their best interest to stand up against these feral
humans, and for individuals to start taking some responsibility for their
own protection.  In a state in which the individuals turn to the authorities
and police for protection, the police and government is soon composed of
the very feral humans that they originally sought protection from.

Gee, I guess you touched my hot button.  I'd better go cool off somewhere.


-- 
Tom Mackey          (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.ca.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services               ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,       P.O. Box 24346,       Seattle, WA       98124-0346

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103048
From: jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <1993Apr21.171811.25933@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>
>In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
>
>I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
>guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).


Geico has purchased radar guns in several states, I know they have done
it here in CT.

I have also heard horror stories about people that have been insured by Geico
for years and then had 1 accident and were immediately dropped.  And once
you've been dropped by any insruance company you become labled a high
risk, and end up forking out 3 or 4 times what you should be for insurance.

My suggestion, stay where you are, or shop around but STAY AWAY from Geico!

Jeff



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103049
From: barryf@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Barry Fowler)
Subject: Re: Impala SS going into production!

Does that mean that they're gonna bring back the Biscayne and Bel Air?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103050
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee) writes:
: significantly less than the value of many automobiles.  And for those who will
: argue that the animals out there stealing cars and everything else (not to
: mention committing COMPLETELY senseless acts of violence, such as rape) cannot
: be valued in terms of money because they are human beings, I submit that they
: are not human beings.  Jim Callison, I think, is on the right track.  And 

Absolutely. A scratch on my car bothers me more than the death of any
number of scum. All of you feel the same way---you just won't admit it.
When are people going to realise that the mere fact that a piece of flesh
moves and has the approximate shape of a human being does not in itself
mean that it has "rights"?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103051
From: nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan)
Subject: Dirty Diesels?

I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).

But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Vel Natarajan  nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL  --
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103052
From: jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:

> 
> In a previous article, dspalme@mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617) says:
> 
> >: nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) writes:
> >: > HELP!!!
> >: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
> >jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry) writes:
> >: FYI, just last week the PBS show Motor Week gave the results of what they 
> >: thought were the best cars for '93.  In the convertible category, the 
>                                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >: Honda Civic del Sol achieved this honor.  
> >I own a del Sol and I must vouch for the interior.  I really looks snazzy wh
> >the top is off.  I looks a lot better in person than on the television.  (I 
> >that Motorweek as well.  Needless to say I was smiling a bit by the time it
> >was over ...)  :*)
> >
> >Watch out for that darned "convertible tan" tho...
> 
> 
> i simply must inquire, how can people honestly consider this car
> a "convertible"?  Does Porsche have a patent on the "targa" name?
> I mean, convertible to me means "top down", which the del Sol certainly
> does NOT do.  It has the center that lifts out.  This is what i would
> term a targa(unless Porsches was gonna sue me for doing that).  I know
> the rear window rolls down, but i still can hardly consider this car
> to be a convertible.
> 

Yes, however, with the top off and the rear window down this car is more 
like a convertible than a coupe.  Think of it as a convertible with an 
integrated roll-bar like addition.

jp

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103053
From: rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?

In article <1993Apr20.174246.14375@wam.umd.edu> lerxst@wam.umd.edu (where's my  
thing) writes:
> 
>  I was wondering if anyone out there could enlighten me on this car I saw
> the other day. It was a 2-door sports car, looked to be from the late 60s/
> early 70s. It was called a Bricklin. The doors were really small. In  
addition,
> the front bumper was separate from the rest of the body. This is 
> all I know. If anyone can tellme a model name, engine specs, years
> of production, where this car is made, history, or whatever info you
> have on this funky looking car, please e-mail.

Bricklins were manufactured in the 70s with engines from Ford. They are rather  
odd looking with the encased front bumper. There aren't a lot of them around,  
but Hemmings (Motor News) ususally has ten or so listed. Basically, they are a  
performance Ford with new styling slapped on top.

>    ---- brought to you by your neighborhood Lerxst ----

Rush fan?

--
Robert Seymour				rseymour@reed.edu
Physics and Philosophy, Reed College	(NeXTmail accepted)
Artificial Life Project			Reed College
Reed Solar Energy Project (SolTrain)	Portland, OR

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103054
From: ravi@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Ravi Puvvala)
Subject: $13,500 Mazda 626 DX (with Air, AM/FM) Good Deal?

Hi Netters
	I want to know if 13500 (w/o tax) is a good deal for 1993 Mazda 626 DX
How is the performance review so far on Mazda 626. Is it a good buy?
Please reply to me as I don't read this group often.

Thanks In advance
Ravi
--
Ravi Kiran Puvvala		| "The purpose of education is not merely, 
ravi@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com	|  the assimilation of facts but blow all 
Motorola Codex, Boston  MA 	|  the money" - Ravi Puvvala
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103055
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

In article <C5t3B2.DG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>
>>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>>>I am quite interested in it.
>>>>Thanks!
>>>>Darren Gibbons
>>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>>>	
>>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????
>
>>Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
>>chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
>>be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.
>
>>Craig
>
>	I think the Manta is the European name for the "GT."  I'm pretty sure
Well the European Manta and US GT have entirely different bodies. There is
little or no chance that they are the same. The Manta went through several
generations as the coupe version of the Ascona and was OK in its time.

>that the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans.  I think the

Not true. The Kadett has been in and out of the US market over the years.
The LeMans (old Kadett) is only the latest version. 

Craig
>GT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta.  

Different Cars. One looks like a sports-car, the other is a coupe.

>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103056
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: $6700 for hail damage - a record?

In article <1993Apr20.203219.7724@pencom.com> stecz@pencom.com writes:
>In article <1993Apr19.235711.7285@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)  
>writes:
>> 
>> 
>> My 90 Integra was hit hard in the 3/25 hailstorm in Austin, TX. 
>> The insurance company cut me a check for $6600 ($100 deductible)
>> last week.  Is this a record? Anybody else had settlements from
>> the same hailstorm yet?
>> 
>> Craig
>
>
>Rumor has it that a guy at Dell Computer had his Miata totalled, so that would  
>be about $10k.

I guess it either had the top down, or the hail ripped through the top, as
you could not do $10k worth of hail damage to a Miata body. 

Craig
>
>
>--
>--
>  John Steczkowski                        stecz@pencom.com
>    The Constitution grants you the right to life, liberty, and the
>    *pursuit* of happiness.  It does not attempt to guarantee that
>    everyone *will* be happy.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103057
From: ae015@Freenet.carleton.ca (Steve Hui)
Subject: Re: New '94 Talon?????


I would also be interested in finding out about the '94 Talon,
and I suspect that many other people would be interested too,
so let's get some responses on the net.

The question again:
Does anyone have any info on the 1994 Eagle Talon / Mitsubishi
Eclipse / Plymouth Laser?

I know that the old Talon was based on the Mitsubishi Galant,
and that in Japan, a 240 hp twin-turbo V6 1994 Galant has been
released.

So anyway, any info on the '94 Talon would be appreciated.

Steve Hui

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103058
From: yongje@hardy.u.washington.edu (Yong Je Lim)
Subject: Dealer cheated me with wrong odometer reading. Need help!

Here is a story.  I bought a car about two weeks ago.  I finally can
get hold of the previous owner of the car and got all maintanence
history of the car.  In between '91 and '92, the instrument pannel 
of the car has been replaced and the odometer also has been reset
to zero.  Therefore, the true meter reading is the reading before
replacement plus current mileage.  That shows 35000 mile difference
comparing to the mileage on the odometer disclosure from.  The 
dealer never told me anything about that important story.

I hope that I can return the car with full refund.  Do u think this
is possible?  Does anyone have similar experiences?  Any comments
will be appreciated.  Thanks.

yongje@u.washington.edu 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103059
Subject: insurance question
From: <LIBEMC@BYUVM.BITNET>

I'm about to buy a new car and finance some of it.  Since I paid
cash for the last car I bought I did not have to worry about
whether or not I had a good amount of insurance on it because
of a bank loan.  I just put the amount that I wanted (not what
a bank would have wanted).  Friends are telling me that banks
require some kind of insurance on the car to protect it since it
is collateral on loans.  Is this true?  Can that insurance be
gotten as part of my other insurance?  I assume I don't have to
pay a dealer for extra insurance over my regular car insurance.
Am I correct?  I hear about accident/health type insurance at
the dealers and I am pretty sure these are just money makers
for them.  I just want to verify that I don't _have_ to buy
these at all.  Or any other types of extras.

What do I have to pay for?  Car, tax, license.  Anything else?

Ellen


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103060
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

boyle@cactus.org  writes:
> In article <1qv7mn$dql@menudo.uh.edu> thang@harebell.egr.uh.edu (Chin-Heng  Thang) writes:
> >	Recently, I saw an ad for the altima which says that it is the  
> >best seller for the past 6 months, is that true? 
> >
> 
> I too was puzzled by this obvious untruth. What I think is going on is that
> Nissan claims that the Altima is "the best selling new car namelplate in
> the US" (I think I have this near verbatim). Lee Iaccoca's statistics
> dept. would have been proud of that sentence. What they mean, I think, is
> that of all "totally new models", i.e. cars never sold before in any
> form, the Altima is the best seller, thereby eliminating Accord, Taurus
> etc. 
 THis is from the same people who make the claim that our minivan is outsellin
theirs.... implying that the Nissan Quest/ Murcury Villager are out-selling
the Chrysler mini-vans.... not only is this not true at all, but it was a stupid
claim to make... the commercial was part of the introduction campaign for the 
vans.  Kind of a bold statement to make when you haven't even sold one yet, eh?


And I thought Buick and Oldsmobile where bad.  Shame on you Nissan and 
Mercury!
> 
> Any other interpretations?
> 
> 
> Craig
> >	 Does anyone has anyhting regarding the # of cars sold for the  
> >past 6 months?
> >
> >
> >
> >tony
> 
> 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103061
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: (w)rec.autos


There is just something disconcerting about the name of this group. :)


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103062
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

By the way, what do people think about the Opel CAlibra?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103063
From: hhd0@harvey.gte.com (Horace Dediu)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?

In article <nataraja.735341980@opal12>, nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan) writes:
|> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
|> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
|> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).
|> 
|> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
|> something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
|> diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
|> install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
|> of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
|> different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
|> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
|> gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...
|> 
|> -- 
|> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> -- Vel Natarajan  nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL  --
|> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This really bugs me.  The emissions of diesels are the cleanest of any vechicle,
but they are considered so polluting that they are banned in passenger cars
in California.  What a bunch of crap.  Diesel is the fuel of choice for 
enviromental benefit in Europe while here it's illegal for the same reason.

The particulates are nothing but carbon.  They are just an annoyance at worst.
Nothing beats the diesel cycle for efficiency and emissions, torque or engine
durability.  It's also cheaper.
-- 
Horace Dediu                                                  GTE Laboratories
(617) 466-4111                                                40 Sylvan Road
Internet: hdediu@gte.com                                      Waltham, MA 02254

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103064
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qqv7k$e5g@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>In a previous article, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) says:
>>In article <1qn4ev$3g2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>>>In a previous article, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) says:
>>>
>>>>	That shows how much you know about anything.  The brakes on the
>>>>SHO are very different - 9 inch (or 9.5? I forget) discs all around,
>>>>vented in front.  The normal Taurus setup is (smaller) discs front, 
>>>>drums rear.
>>>
>>>one i saw had vented rears too...it was on a lot.
>>>of course, the sales man was a fool..."titanium wheels"..yeah, right..
>>>then later told me they were "magnesium"..more believable, but still
>>>crap, since Al is so m uch cheaper, and just as good....
>>>
>>>i tend to agree, tho that this still doesn't take the SHO up to "standard"
>>>for running 130 on a regular basis.  The brakes should be bigger, like
>>>11" or so...take a look at the  ones on the Corrados.(where they have
>>>braking regulations).
>>
>>Well, let's see...my T-Bird SC has a computer-controlled adjustable
>>suspension, 4-wheel ABS disks (11" vented front, 10" (?) rear), 3-point
							^^^^
						Rears also vented

>>belts, sturdy passenger compartment, aerodynamics good enough for 
>>NASCAR without too much change, 210 hp/310 ft-lb supercharged 3.8l V6,
>>4-wheel independent suspension (plus limited-slip differential), with 
>>a top speed in excess of 130mph, and rides on V-rated tires (I have yet
>>to find 225/60-R16s in any other speed rating). 
>>
>>Is that "up to standard"? If not, why not?
>
>james, i really hate to do this, but try reading the damn posts!

Then you shouldn't've done it. Try answering the damn question.
I am well aware of the fact that there was no mention of the SC
in there.

>never was a t'bird mentioned.  The discussion was about SHO's and
>'stangs not being up to spec.  I do not know about t'birds.  I
>only know that the specs quoted for the SHO by previous poster sounded
>a little anemic for me to say that it was up to snuff.  This does not
>kn any way  disencourage* me from wishing to own one, nor does it make it
>a bad car.  It merely means that i think Ford could have added that extra
>bit of safety  and tossed in larger brakes, as the wheels are plenty large
>enough for them to fit (if memory serves right, which it may very well not)
>and the motor plenty powerful enough to need it.

Well, my point was that the SC and the SHO both have very similar
characteristics (front and rear disks (ABS on the SHO?), high output
V6, 4-wheel independent suspension, very good aerodynamics, 3-point
harness, fat rubber, and 130mph+ top speed). If one of them is 
up to standard (and I think the SC is), but the other isn't, then
why is that? No flamage, just curiousity.


				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103065
From: markg@sr.hp.com (Mark Goldsworthy)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

Spiros Triantafyllopoulos (c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com) wrote:
: But waiiiiiit, isn't Nissan officially registering the car as far as
: government paperwork goes, Nissan Stanza Altima, to avoid costly and
: lengthy paperwork? I read this on the net a while ago, and someone
: actually may have said there's a little Stanza logo on the Altima
: somewhere.

I just bought an Altima (and like it very much) and yes there is a
little Stanza logo ever so discretely placed on the trunk. The Altima is
emblazoned in big silver letters, but the itsy-bitsy Stanza is shunted
to the far left of the trunk lid. You can only see it if you get up
close to the car and know where to look. It is very inconspicuous.

In fact my first clue that this was a Stanza was that the owners manual
called the car a Nissan Stanza Altima.

Anybody know *why* Nissan did it this way?

Mark Goldsworthy



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103066
From: raman@translab.its.uci.edu (Balaji V. Ramanathan)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <C5uwoJ.Bt@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:
>In <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>
>
>>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>>have v engines.
>
>>V4 - I don't know of any.
>>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
Lexus es300, gs300, sc300, Infiniti J30, Dozens of others, including
common cars like the Toyota Camry (as an option).
>>V8 - Don't know of any.
>
>Mustang 5.0 (302)
>Camaros & Firebirds
>Some Mercedes'
>
Lexus ls400, sc400, Acura Legend, Infiniti Q45, Lincoln Mark VIII, some
cadillacs and other luxury autos.

V10 - Dodge viper (?)

>>V12 - Jaguar XJS
>
>
>> Please add to the list.
>
>
>> Thanks,
>> -S
>> ssave@ole.cdac.com
>-- 
>/-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-\
>| |\/|  __   -=> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu <=- (mliggett@iugold.bitnet  |
>* |  |/\||   'junk' collector, toys R us kid, antiauthoritarian, and fan of   *
>| frogs, iguanas, and other herps.					      |


--
----------------->8      Cut here for Signature!       8<---------------------
Balaji Ramanathan,                   | 
Institute of Transportation Studies, |         I don't believe in luck!
University of California, Irvine.    |              I RELY on it!!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103067
From: newman@cps.msu.edu (Timothy S Newman)
Subject: Domestic Content of US/Japan Joint Ventures


Does anyone know what the domestic content is of any of these:
Geo Prizm, Eagle Talon, Ford Probe

?

All are made in the US, but I have been told they contain mostly
foreign parts.  Please follow up directly to me, I'll post the
findings to the net if there is interest.

Thanks!
Tim Newman

newman@cps.msu.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103068
From: tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.


>Eliot is right about 2.2 liter engine in the second (and last) generation
>MR2's. But the original guy did not indicate the year of his MR2. If it's a
>first generation car (like my '85), it has 1.6 liter engine (or perhaps
>same engine with a supercharger, if it's '87 -'89).
>The sound he describes is common to any older Toyota engine I ever heard.
>I don't know the relevance of his observations about oil changes, my simply
>makes noise. Not all that annoying, mind you. But you hear it well when the
>engine is right behind your left ear :-)
>Mike.S

Sorry 'bout that - Mine is a '91 model non-turbo 2.0. (with ABS and revised
suspension (whatever revised means)). I'm in Australia, so we always seem to 
get the versions without extras which the Europeans and Americans get as 
standard.

My query is, - why does the noise get noticeably LOUDER about 2-3 months after
an oil change. I just find it a bit wierd that this happens. Is it the oil I'm
using (Mobil 1) or is it the engine (the 3S-GE version/model) ie. gets
noiser the older the oil is (I'm only guessing). 

Its not annoyingly distressing or anything, but just slightly puzzling.


Puzzled.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103069
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible


In a previous article, twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu (Tom Wetzel) says:

>In article <1r1tth$b9i@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Andrew A. Spencer,
>aas7@po.CWRU.Edu writes:
[well, actually, he didn't, but we'll pretend the real author of this
query has his name tacked in here....:-)]


>>>: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
>
>I was about to recommend you consider a targa top over a convertible but, 
>DREW made the point very well.  When my wife and I were in our 20s we
>did the convertible thing with Triumphs.  Now in our mid-40s, we still
>appreciate the open air but prefer targa types.  There is much less wind
>noise, objects/papers blowing around, foreign objects getting into the
>car and one still has almost all the advantages of the convertible.  
>
>Tom

while it's being mentioned, i personally prefer the moonroof/sunroof/t-top/
targa thing as well.  I simply don't like cloth tops, nor the extra insurance,
nor the S**** color matching alot of companies do.  If i chose a convertible,
it'd be:

a) Mazda RX7 II.  I just like the way they look.  It'd have to be in black,
with color matched black top(they look good!)

b) VW cabriolet.  They do a suberb job of matching colors too.  Also, last year
for them!  {***COLLECTOR'S ITEM****}

c) mustang GT droptop...they look ok too.

i know this doesn't help, but i thought i'd do it anyway...:-)

good luck to your wife.(and you :-)

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103070
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots


In a previous article, dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) says:

>In article <1993Apr21.100149.1501@rtsg.mot.com>, kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane) writes:
>|> As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
>|> here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....
>
>In many of our cities, there are traffic signals every 100 feet (unsynchronised,
>of course (well here in Ottawa anyway)) and the roads are so congested that 
>shifting manually is a real pain in the left foot.  Also, most Canadians are
>too stupid to learn how to shift manually (gee, I gotta co-ordinate my two
>feet on the clutch, brake _and_ accelerator, and I gotta steer, shift _and_
>operate the signals (optional) and radio with my two hands... duh... it 

[i agree wholeheartedly!!]

>can't be done).  Also, most North American made cars come with the automatic 
>as standard equipment, so why bother with a manual when the car can shift 
>for you for no addition money.

not sure about there in CA, but here in US, the manuals are quite often the
standard equipment.  Of course, FINDING a car with one might be hard, but
if you read the sticker on the window, there is usally an additional 2k or
so tacked on for that lousy  tranny.  So you actually ARE paying more, just
that it's sometimes hard to find one that is equipped "standard".  (this
applies to MOST cars, but not to the luxoyachts..eg caddilac, licolns, etc..)


DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103071
From: kennyc@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (kenneth.r.crudup)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com>
ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:

>I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>have V engines.

>V8 - Don't know of any.

Kidding, right? 

Corvette, several MBZ's and BMW's, Mustang GT, etc., etc. There's a lot of
them. You from a European site?

	-Kenny

-- 
Kenny Crudup, ATT BL, MV20-3-T-5-B, X3219.
kenny@mvuts.att.com



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103072
From: singer@ll.mit.edu (Matthew R. Singer)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?


--
In article <C5t3B2.DG@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
|>Newsgroups: rec.autos
|>Path: llpost!ll.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!cka52397
|>From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
|>Subject: Re: Opel owners?
|>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 19:45:02 GMT+5:00
|>Message-ID: <C5t3B2.DG@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
|>References: <gibbonsa.735339907@sfu.ca> <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <1993Apr20.223410.10923@cactus.org>
|>Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
|>Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
|>Lines: 30
|>
|>boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
|>
|>>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
|>>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
|>>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
|>>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
|>>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
|>>>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
|>>>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
|>>>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
|>>>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
|>>>>I am quite interested in it.
|>>>>Thanks!
|>>>>Darren Gibbons
|>>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
|>>>	
|>>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????
|>
|>>Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
|>>chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
|>>be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.
|>
|>>Craig
|>
|>	I think the Manta is the European name for the "GT."  I'm pretty sure
|>that the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans.  I think the
|>GT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta.  
|>-- 
|>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
|>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********
|>

The GT was based on the Kadette chassis. It was built model years 1969-1973.
The Manta came out in the 1974 model year and was a 4 seat coupe.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew R. Singer                                    MIT Lincoln Laboratory
(617) 981-3771                                       244 Wood Street
singer@ll.mit.edu                                    Lexington, MA 02173
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103073
From: singer@ll.mit.edu (Matthew R. Singer)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?


--
In article <1993Apr20.231748.26273@convex.com>, maynard@convex.com (Mark Maynard) writes:
|>Newsgroups: rec.autos
|>Path: llpost!ll.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!dptspd!tamsun.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!convex!convex!maynard
|>From: maynard@convex.com (Mark Maynard)
|>Subject: Re: Opel owners?
|>Message-ID: <1993Apr20.231748.26273@convex.com>
|>Sender: Mark Maynard	
|>Nntp-Posting-Host: trojan.convex.com
|>Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
|>References: <gibbonsa.735339907@sfu.ca> <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
|>Distribution: rec.autos
|>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 19:17:48 GMT+5:00
|>X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
|>              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
|>              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
|>Lines: 22
|>
|>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
|>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
|>>
|>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
|>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
|>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.
|>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
|>>	
|>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????
|>>	Chintan Amin
|>
|>
|>Sounds more like an Opel GT.  Neat cars, fun to drive.  Sold through
|>Buick from 196? through 1973 (if I remember correctly).  I believe it
|>was in '72 that there were some engine mods made such that parts
|>were not interchangeable with the older models.  Parts are thus much
|>harder to come by for the later models.  Parts in general are not
|>too difficult to find.  At one time JC Whitney carried some stuff
|>including a brand new (not remfg) long block.  Either a GT or a
|>Kharman Ghia (hmm that spelling looks hosed) will be my next project.
|>
|>Mark
|>

In 1972, they lowered the engine compression so that it would run on
regular gas (not to mention the addition of emission controls).  The '72 
also added pop-out rear quarter windows...

Alot of parts are available for the GT from C & R Small Cars in CT and
used from Bill Daley's Opel Parts in MA....


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew R. Singer                                    MIT Lincoln Laboratory
(617) 981-3771                                       244 Wood Street
singer@ll.mit.edu                                    Lexington, MA 02173
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103074
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.

I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103075
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?


In a previous article, marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) says:

>In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>>
>>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>>have v engines.
>>
>>V4 - I don't know of any.
>>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>>V8 - Don't know of any.
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>try the(DEEP breath) Mustang,Camaro,Optional on nearly every truck ever built,
> Corvettes, Caprices, BMW 740i, Caddie Eldorado, Fleetwood, Seville,
>Infiniti Q45,Jeep Grand Cherokee, Lexus Ls 400, Lexus SC 400,Lincon Mark VIII
>Town Car,M-B 400SEL, and the Mercury Grand Marquis to name a FEW!!!!
> 
>>V12 - Jaguar XJS
> 
>How about:
>V10 - Viper
>V16 - must be one somewhere.

Believe Bugatti's coming(has) out  one.  Something like 4 turbos
and mucho macho HP.  One cool price too, as i heard.  At any rate,
the point is, i'm pretty sure there is, indeed, one in production...
tho rather limited..

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103076
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Nissan Nomenclature (was Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted)


In a previous article, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) says:

>The best auto-shifters on the street (AND NOT THE TRACK) are those from 
>Porsche... they wont change if you floor the gas during a turn.... a few 
>years back a was in a 200SX auto (you guys call it a 240SX [without turbo])
>and was going round a corner.... I floored it and next thing I know I was 
>pointing backwards! The other drivers seemed quite amused ;-)
>
>						....Shaz....
>

You are sure that what you call a 200SX we call a 240?  Just curious..
We also have a nissan predacessor (sp) to the 240 called a 200, which
came in turbo and nonturbo.  But i don't think we've ever had a 240
turbo...just curious...(BTW, I'm in the US, if that matters..)

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103077
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:

>In <C5t3B2.DG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:

>>boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:

>>>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>>>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>>>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>>>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>>>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>>>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>>>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>>>>I am quite interested in it.
>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>Darren Gibbons
>>>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>>>>	
>>>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????

>>>Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
>>>chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
>>>be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.

>>>Craig

>>	I think the Manta is the European name for the "GT."  I'm pretty sure
>>that the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans.  I think the
>>GT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta.  
>>-- 
>>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

>Bzzt.
>The manta was a two-door sedan in the US.
>It had a 1900 engine.
>Was sometimes referred to as an Opel 1900.
>Manta's are also ve hot and fun cars too.

>| |\/|  __   -=> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu <=- (mliggett@iugold.bitnet  |
>* |  |/\||   'junk' collector, toys R us kid, antiauthoritarian, and fan of   *
>| frogs, iguanas, and other herps.					      |

	Funny, the Manta's over in Europe look surprisingly like the Opel
alluded to by the original poster.


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103078
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes:

>By the way, what do people think about the Opel CAlibra?

	I want one, and I don't want to move to Europe to buy one.  Please make
it the next Pontiac F-Car.  Of course I'll have to wait 'till 2003 to buy it...




-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103079
From: "nigel allen" <nigel.allen@canrem.com>
Subject: Alternative Fuel Vehicles


Here is a press release from the U.S. Department of Energy.

 Energy Secretary Hails President's Plan For Alternative Fuel
Vehicles
 To: National Desk, Environment and Energy Reporters
 Contact: Larry Hart of the U.S. Department of Energy, 202-586-5806

   WASHINGTON, April 21  -- Secretary of Energy
Hazel R. O'Leary today said President Clinton's Executive Order on
Alternative Fuels will make the federal government a "driving force
behind efforts to increase the availability of both alternative
fuel vehicles and fuel supplies."
   President Clinton signed the order today, which calls for
federal purchases of alternative fuel vehicles in numbers over the
next three years at least 50 percent higher than those called for
in the Energy Policy Act of 1992.
   President Clinton also announced that Texas Land Commissioner
Gary Mauro will head up the Federal Fleet Conversion Task Force to
advise O'Leary on implementation of the Executive Order.
   "I am delighted that I will be working with Gary Mauro to make
this happen," O'Leary said.  "As Land Commissioner, Gary Mauro has
helped make Texas a national leader in converting the state fleet
to alternative fuels, and has been a tireless proponent of natural
gas vehicles in speeches across the country."
   The task force is to issue a report within 90 days recommending
a plan and schedule of implementation.
   "The Department of Energy and all of us in government must lead
by example if the option of alternative fuels is going to become a
practical, affordable choice for fleet owners across the country,"
O'Leary said.  "Increased use of domestically-produced alternative
fuels means reducing pollution while creating jobs.  We believe
that energy efficiency, protecting the environment, and a healthy
economy are complimentary goals."
   O'Leary said that plans call for the Department of Energy to
coordinate the agencies' five-year purchase plans, help with
funding for extra purchase or conversion costs, and work with GSA
to encourage development of the fuel infrastructure needed to make
fleet conversions practical.
   Under the order, the Department of Energy will also be working
with states, local governments and industry to coordinate vehicle
purchases and encourage manufacturers and fuel suppliers to make
alternative fuel vehicles and alternative fuels more widely
available.
 -30-
--
Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario
416-629-7000/629-7044

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103080
From: rrg@rtp.fibercom.com (Rhonda Gaines)
Subject: '93 Hyundai Sonata...Opinions/Info Wanted


I'd like to hear stories on experiences with the Hyundai Sonata.  I
know Consumer Reports has trashed them but the people I know that
have them swear by them.  They also haven't had the problems with
them that Consumer Reports claims.  I haven't driven one yet.  I
have driven a '93 Hyundai Elantra (which Consumer Reports also
trashed) and was very impressed with it.  The local Hyundai
dealership ("no-haggle" policy) is offering an Elantra GLS w/ power
moonroof for $13163.  They also have a Sonata base, w/ Sunroof for
$13997.  I know my preference is for a Sonata GLS w/ sunroof and
4-spd automatic.  I'll decide which engine I prefer after test
driving both the 4-cyl and the V6.  The Sonata is also offering a
$1500 rebate.  Hmmm, that's another question.  Is the following
scenario the appropriate manner to handle "negotiation"?

1.  make offer
2.  subtract rebate from offer
3.  talk trade
4.  subtract trade from offer to get final price


-- 
Rhonda Gaines, Systems/Network Administrator | INTERNET: gaines@fibercom.com
FiberCom, Inc., P.O. Box 11966,              | UUCP: ...!uunet!fibercom!gaines
Roanoke, VA 24022-1966                       | FAX:   703-342-5961
PHONE: 703-342-6700 or 800-423-1183 x291     |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103081
From: grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Nissan Nomenclature (was Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted)

aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:



>You are sure that what you call a 200SX we call a 240?  Just curious..
>We also have a nissan predacessor (sp) to the 240 called a 200, which
>came in turbo and nonturbo.  But i don't think we've ever had a 240
>turbo...just curious...(BTW, I'm in the US, if that matters..)

>DREW 

What we currently know as the 240sx, is known elsewhere as a 200sx.


 
-- 
Graham E. Thomas                  *  blah blah blah blah blah  
Georgia Institute of Technology   *  blah blah blah blah blah     
Internet: grahamt@oit.gatech.edu  *  blah blah blah blah blah  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103082
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <1r3oe8$c93@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>nice theory.  too bad the MR2's never came with a four cylinder over 2.0
>liters.  More like 1.6.  Or did they? were the nonturbo MR2II's  2.2 or
>some such?

foot in mouth again, drew.  the first generation mr 2's were 1.6's which 
were very smooth.  i'd be real surprised if the original poster was talking
about a 1st generation car.  the second generation cars were 2.2 for the
non turbo and 2.0 for the turbo.  i drove the non turbo 2.2 and calling it
unpleasant is to be kind to it.. 

>I also understand that anyone using balancing shafts on four cylinders, must
>pay SAAB a royalty for using their patented design..like Porsche's 3.0 I4...

wrong and wrong.  mitsubishi owns the patent, which has since expired
which is why everybody with a shred of integrity is putting balance
shafts into their big 4's.. the notable exception is nissan.. and only
for the us market suckers.  i guess we need to write to C&D and start
telling them to publish graphs for engine vibration over rpm.  then
you'll see usenet discussions of the form: engine A has peak
vibrations 3 dB less than engine B, therefore engine A is better than
engine B.

1/2 :-)


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103083
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important?

i    of course car safety is important.. I for one used to think that these 
guys are going way OTT with their airtbags (sorry del button dont work) and 
side impact bars and crash zones and (the list goes on) just tpo make the 
car heavbier (and all its penalties) ... bur recently I had a little accident (on
my bike) and not as bad as John's ..... but after the accident - it made me 
realizer I should have worn a helmet (my mom always insistede I should... I was
more concerned about my hair style).....

A few days agi - I read a report in which the old Rea.. Rea shit - Renault 5
had an accident and its roof caved INWARDS and crushed the occupents heads...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103084
From: dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf)
Subject: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

Another user recently requested info about the Shadow/Sundance
cars, but I haven't seen any public responses.

What are people's experiences with these cars?

Daryl

             Daryl Biberdorf  N5GJM    d-biberdorf@tamu.edu
               + Sola Gratia + Sola Fide + Sola Scriptura

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103085
From: mart@csri.toronto.edu (Mart Molle)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

bobml@mxmsd.msd.measurex.com (Bob LaGesse) writes:

[Long silly discussion deleted...]

>                              And while you're at it, why bother with removing
>the drain plug when you could remove the dipstick instead and suck it out from
>there with your mouth and then spit it out?

This suggestion isn't as far-fetched as it sounds.  Years ago in another
time and place, I used to do oil changes in boats powered by automotive
engines.  In many cases, there was no way to get any sort of a tray under
the oil pan because it was boxed in by the bottom of the hull and various
floation chambers on each side.  And if you *did* get something there, you'd
spill all the oil out of it for sure trying to get it back out again.

So we used a small pump powered by an electric drill to suck the oil out
the dipstick hole.  There was a long/thin hose on the inlet side designed
to fit down the dipstick tube, and another, thicker/shorter hose on the
outlet side that you put into any convenient container.  I'm sure these
gadgets are still available from marine hardware suppliers if you want one.

Mart L. Molle
Computer Systems Research Institute
University of Toronto
Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
(416)978-4928

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103086
From: johnson@spectra.com (boyd johnson)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5JGC4.AJJ@dove.nist.gov> keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys) writes:

This isn't anything new.  Back in 1985 I was driving under a high
overpass at night on I-805 in San Diego when I caught a glimpse of
someone on the overpass.  As I passed under a rock slammed against the
metal between the winshield and right front window.  My girlfriend was
in the seat next to it.  I called the police from the next exit, but I
doubt if they were found.

About five years ago in San Diego someone was put into a coma from a
brick being thrown through his sunroof as he was driving and
subsequently crashed.  I don't think he ever came out of the coma, and I
haven't heard anything about it for a couple years.

>I know that this isn't the group for it, but since you brought it up,
>does anyone have any idea why they haven't "bombed" the Waco cult?    

Probably because there are many children there.  Also the minor fact
that other than defending themselves from 100 some people attacking them
they haven't threatened or attacked anyone outside the compound in
years.  Being a promiscuous religious nut does not constitute grounds
for a mass murder of Koresh and his followers.

Sorry for posting this to this group, but I thought the previous post
needed a rebuttal.  If you follow-up to this portion please cross-post
and direct follow-ups to a more appropriate newsgroup.

-- 
====== Boyd Johnson   nosc!spectra.com!johnson  San Diego, California ======
	Intermittent newsfeed at best and only to selected groups.
	My opinions certainly don't match those of my employer.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103087
From: pamuelle@ingr.com ( Phil Mueller )
Subject: Re: Used BMW Question ..... ???

In article <1993Apr12.230031.160616@ua1ix.ua.edu> rpaturi@ho12.eng.ua.edu (Ravi) writes:
>
>Hi,	
>I am dying to get the  answer for the pricing polocy of a dealer
>here  in San Jose, California (I moved to caal  from AL)

You moved from Alabama to California?  My sympathies.

>Year	Model	Description		Milage	Price
>1991	318	Black, "Looks" good     46K	10.6K
>		5sp  manual, AC, 
>		Cassette, Sun roof 
>
>1989	318	White  same as aboove   50K	 9.6K
>

Make sure that they have all maintenance records.  Oil should be changed
every 3 months.  The mileage on the cars is fine.

Be sure that these have the 16 valve engine.  The 8 valve 318 is a 
BMW in name only.  

Didn't you have a line on a '89 325i for 12K? Jump on it.


-- 
Phil Mueller    pamuelle@ingr.com   -OR-   pamuelle@nc2145.b30.ingr.com
AMA: 686532   DOD: 132569   1991 Suzuki Bandit   1977 BMW R100/7


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103088
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: saturn -- puzzled by its pricing

In article <1993Mar31.181813.24122@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>In article <1pcgv5$oj9@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>>>Because I want to get the lowest price possible, it's called capitalism.
>>
>>I have news for you -- capitalism is the practice of maximizing
>>profits.
>
>Same difference, if you lower your costs you increase your profits.
>
>>Personally I'm not at all bothered by the Saturn pricing scheme.  If I
>>don't want to pay as much as they're selling it for, I can go buy a
>>different car from a different dealer and they get nothing.  That's
>>competition for you.  If the dealer can be competitive charging what
>>they do and making that kind of profit, that's capitalism at it's best
>>and more power to 'em.
>>
>
>I'd rather have the consumer dictate what things will cost not the
>dealers.

Sorry, but *neither* 'dictates' the cost. It's a negotiation.
Whether it's up front at a honda dealership in an all out 
dickering war, or more removed on a larger economic scale
(ie, if saturn can't sell at it's price, the price drops,
or the company stops building them), it remains a negotiated
value controlled by market forces. To think that the consumer 
controls price is ludicrous. If the consumer controled
price, then cars would be *free*...And no one would build 
cars.

Regards, Charles
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103089
From: Kurt Godden <godden@gmr.com>
Subject: GM May Build Toyota-badged Car

This appeared today in the 

The Japan Economic Journal reported GM plans to build a Toyota-badged car
in the US for sale in Japan.  Bruce MacDonald, VP of GM Corporate
Communications, yesterday confirmed that GM President and CEO Jack Smith
had a meeting recently with Tatsuro Toyoda, President of Toyota.  
this meeting the two discussed business opportunities to increase GM
exports to Japan, including further component sales as well as completed
vehicle sales,
parts sales, the two presidents agreed conceptually to pursue an
arrangement whereby GM would build a Toyota-badged, right-hand drive
vehicle in the US for sale by Toyota in Japan.  A working group has been
formed to finalize model specifications, exact timing and other details.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103090
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <1993Apr15.193712.25996@news.cs.brandeis.edu> andyh@chaos.cs.brandei
s.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.020356.28944@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sorlin@magnus.ac
s.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>>I take the electrodes of the Amp/Ohm/Volt meter whatever and connect one
>>to each earlobe.  Then, symmetrically insert my fingers in each of the
>>spark plug boots. No cheating guys!  both hands must be used!
>
>I have just a couple of questions about this technique.
>
>First, what firing order should I use?  Do I start with my pointer
>finger or my pinky?  Left hand or right?

Place your hands flat on a table, and arrange the firing order from left to
right.

>And secondly, I have a 12cyl and there are two cylinders unaccounted
>for.  Any suggestions?

Well, you have friends don't you???
12 cylinders might be more excitement than one person can take....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103091
From: danmg@grok85.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Daniel Adams)
Subject: Re: BMW 3 series for 94?

In article <1qll56INNp9r@uwm.edu>, qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi) writes:
|> From article <eabu288-140493210752@dialin33635.slip.nts.uci.edu>, by eabu288@orion.oac.uci.edu (Alvin):
|> >
|> > Is there going to be a BMW 328 in 1994?
|> 
|> --Could be.  Isn't the 2.5 liter six supposed to be enlarged to 2.8 liters
|>   in the not-too-distant future?
|> 

Makes sense, since the new Mercedes Benz engines go from 2.2L-4 to a 2.8L-6.
Nothing in between.  BTW, I beleive the numbers on those MB engines are
156 and 225 hp respectively.  The one-upmanship in hp might induce BMW
to create a larger six.  Also, the 2.6 190E has lagged behind the 3-er
2.5 for some time wrt hp.   I am sure the Bavarians wouldn't want to be
"shown-up" by the Schwabians.

PS- those MB engines haven't been released over here yet.

daniel

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103092
From: dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5K9M5.7Ku@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>
>If I hear someone screwing with my car (ie, setting off the alarm) and
>taunting me to come out, you can be damn sure that my Colt Delta Elite
>will also be coming with me. It's not the screwing with the car that'd
>get them shot, it's the potential physical danger. If they're
>taunting like that, it's very possible that they also intend to rob
>me and/or do other physically harmful things.

Here in Houston last year a woman heard the sound of someone in her
garage, so she went to investigate with a gun in her hand.  She
found a guy in the process of stealing her bicycle.  She quite
reasonably asked him to stop.  He refused, began taunting her, and
as the woman was quoted in the police report, "He told me to go
ahead and shoot him, so I did."  The moron survived, and no
charges were filed against the woman.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103093
From: gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)       

>Why should a good driver be terrified at 130mph? The only thing I fear
>going at 130 are drivers, who switch to the left lane without using
>either rear-view-mirror or flashers. Doing 130 to 150 ain't a rush
>for me, but it's fun and I get where I want to go much faster.

In defense of the drivers, who are in the right lane.  Here in the states, people simply do not expect when they are driving to be overtaken at a speed differential of 50+mph.  I don't think this is because they are stupid (of course, there are exceptions), they are just programmed because of the 55mph limit. Do you (in the states) when you look in the rear-view ALWAYS calculate future  positions of cars based on a 50+ speed differential.  

Dont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake
cars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the judgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one.  

BTW, If no one else is around, then GO FOR IT!.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103094
From: arm1@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (arlen.r.martin)
Subject: Squeekin' Windows

Consumer Reports once wrote about the S-10 Blazer that it "shook and rattled
like a tired taxi cab".  There is one noise that is expecially irritating -
the back window squeaks.  I believe its because the whole tailgate assembly
and window are not solid.  Anyway, has anyone had the same problem, and have
you found any fixes?

Arlen Martin
AT&T Microelectronics
att!attme!stcarm
(215)391-2531


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103095
From: bbenson@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: Re: mazda - just does not feel right

In article <mxm1003.734826257@msi.umn.edu>, mxm1003@s15.msi.umn.edu (Ram V. Mohan) writes:
> I've a 89 mazda 323 with about 42000 miles on it.  Recently I do not get
> a good feeling of the road, esp. on a wet pavement when driving the car.
> It feels as if the car is wandering and there is no grip on the road.
> The tires are the original ones and have threads on them (passes the
> penny head test).  I had the shocks and struts and alignment checked and
> things are fine.  However I feel like that I dont have the grip of the
> road and feel as if the car is wandering esp. on turns.  Any help
> in this is appreciated.  Thanks.
> 

Two shots at it: (1) Check the tires again - if you can see the wear bars,
you're down to problem area (and some tires pass a penny test between the
bars - that's no guide at all). Your problem in the wet is call hydroplaning.
You may not have enough tread left to channel water out from under the
tire - so it goes fishy on you as it lifts off the road.

(2) Tires age. In particular, soft tire compounds get harder as you put
them thru more heat cycles. Harder compounds don't grip as well as
soft ones. Effect is very noticable on tires that get very hot very
often, such as in competition, but it hits all tires.

Bob Benson
 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103096
From: bhaskar@orion.me.uiuc.edu (Bhaskar Manda)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast) 

gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) writes:
>>Why should a good driver be terrified at 130mph? The only thing I fear
>>going at 130 are drivers, who switch to the left lane without using
>>either rear-view-mirror or flashers. Doing 130 to 150 ain't a rush
>>for me, but it's fun and I get where I want to go much faster.

>In defense of the drivers, who are in the right lane.  Here in the states, people simply do not expect when they are driving to be overtaken at a speed differential of 50+mph.  I don't think this is because they are stupid (of course, there are exceptions), they are just programmed because of the 55mph limit. Do you (in the states) when you look in the rear-view ALWAYS calculate future  positions of cars based on a 50+ speed differential.  
>Dont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake
>cars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the judgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one.  
>BTW, If no one else is around, then GO FOR IT!.

Keep up the good work guys.
Afterall the cops need to be occupied with someone so that lesser
mortals like us can be left alone.
Bhaskar@orion.me.uiuc.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103097
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <24485@drutx.ATT.COM> klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL) writes:
>In article <C5HHGM.1rM@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>| In article <1993Apr13.215605.26252@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>| >In article <1q4466INNb85@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>| >>
>| >>It's a big aftermarket business.  Almost no cars come from the factory with
>| >>vynal any more, and any fake "convertible" job _definitely_ came from some
>| >>aftermarket place.  What amazes me is how much people are willing to pay for
>| >>bad taste
>| >
>| >How about those really ugly fake wheel compartments stuck onto the
>| >trunk or side (or both sides!) of some tacky luxury cars?
>| 
>| Some of 'em aren't fake (if you're talking about the Continental kit,
>| named after the Lincoln Continental, the first car to sport one). I
>| personally would _love_ to have a '56 T-Bird with a Continental kit
>| (and the supercharged V-8 :-); that is one of the most beautiful
>| cars ever built, IMHO.
>| 
>| 				James
>| 
>
>The Continental may have been the first "modern era" auto to mount the
>spare on the rear of the car but it was hardly the first car to sport one.
>Various mounting techniques for rear mounting the spare were quite common
>in early automobiles, both US and Foreign.

The 1941 Lincoln Continental was the first car to sport the "continental
kit." The continental kit is not to be confused with ye olde outside
mounting bracket; a continental kit is a very specific ornament/storage
compartment. (The 1941 Continental has a neat trunk; it looks rather
like a laundry hamper, IMHO. :-)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103098
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <1993Apr15.232412.2261@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us> david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang) writes:
>In article <5214@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>In article <chrissC587qB.D1B@netcom.com> chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester) writes:
>>
>>>WAGON, which I have heard is somehow slightly faster than the Coupe.
>>
>>	Wagon has an automatic, it's slower.
>>
>Could be due to the rear-end ratio also.  
>
>Usually automatics have different rear-ends than manuals, from
>my limited experience anyways.

You'll have fun looking for the rear-end gears on an SHO--the Taurus
is a front-wheel-drive vehicle...

I went back and checked the article again; The SHO Wagon is quicker
than the SHO automatic, but significantly slower than the REAL SHO.

Why anyone would order an SHO with an automatic transmission is
beyond me; if you can't handle a stick, you should stick with a
regular Taurus and leave the SHO to real drivers. That is not to
say that there aren't real drivers who can't use the stick (eg
disabled persons), but they aren't in any position to use an
SHO anyway. 

I would be willing to bet that if we removed the automatic
transmissions from all "performance-type" cars (like the 5.0l
Mustangs, Camaros, and the like) we'd cut down on the number of
accidents each year. Autos are fine for sedate little sedans,
but they have no business in performance cars, IMHO.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103099
From: opuglies@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Ing. Orlando Pugliese)
Subject: Is this a good price ?



   Hi everybody,

   I will buy a Honda Civic EX Coupe.  The dealer ask $12,750 for it,
including A/C ( installed ), but not including stereo, tax, registration
fees.  I live in Mexico, so I don't have time to go to a lot of dealers
and compare their prices.  The dealer is in McAllen, Tx.  Is this a good
price for that car ?  If not, how much should I pay for it ?

   Please e-mail ASAP if you don't want to post.  Thanks a lot.

   Orlando Pugliese
   opuglies@mtecv2.mty.itesm.mx


--
 ___________________________________
|        *        |                 |
|    ** * * **    |                 |  Orlando Pugliese N
|      * * *      |                 |  Instituto Tecnologico y de Estudios
|     *     *     |                 |         Superiores de Monterrey
|_________________|_________________|  Depto. de Informacion Academica
|                 |        *        |  Monterrey, N.L., Mexico
|                 |    ** * * **    |  (83) 58-2000 ext 4113

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103100
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

In article <1qmq7tINN9l@tamsun.tamu.edu> dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:
>Another user recently requested info about the Shadow/Sundance
>cars, but I haven't seen any public responses.
>
>What are people's experiences with these cars?
>
>Daryl
>
they are pretty much junk, stay away from them.  they will be replaced next
year with all new models.  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103101
From: smartin@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (steven.c.martin)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

From article <1993Apr16.162950.25849@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, by markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger):

> This kind of behavior is what I was shocked by in my 'experience'. For  
> crying out loud, how do these turkeys think they can talk to customers  
> this way and still stay in business? Again, I don't expect sales people to  
> bow, scrape, and grovel in my presence but I sure don't expect to be  
> abused either. I was very surprised by the way the sales people talked to  
> me and in other 'negotiating' sessions I overheard in neighboring sales  
> cubicles. Evidently, their success rate is high enough that they continue  
> to do business this way. There must be a lot of people out there who are  
> easy to intimidate.
> 

A couple of months ago I went to a dealership to test drive a car.  Afterwards,
we sat down to discuss prices.  I explained that I wanted a car just like the
one I drove, but in a different color.  He said he could get one exactly like
I wanted from the dealer network within a day.  We then negotiated a price and
signed the deal.

Next day, I get a call.  He explains that they goofed, and they had neglected
to take into account a price increase. (The last price increase had occurred
over 4 months prior to my visit.)  If I still wanted the car, I would
have to fork over another $700.  As an alternative, they would honor the
price if I bought the car I test drove (which had been sitting around for 
6 months and had a few miles on it). I said goodbye.  This was a good
example of how they can lowball you and still cover their butts.  It's too
bad more people don't demand honesty or these types of dealers would
no longer be in business.  

The next dealership I went to was straightforward and honest.  First thing the
salesman said was, "Lets's see what you have for dealer cost and work out
how much profit I should make."  The deal went through with no problems.

					Steve



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103102
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Subject: Re: "ELECTRONIC" ODOMETER

In article <C5Fp8B.2Co@megatest.com> alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung) writes:
>If I'm not mistaken, altering the odometer is *illegal*.  Furthermore,
>I surmise it'll be tough to alter BMW's odometer if you got at it.
>Some of the newer BMW's have electronic odometers making it even
>more tamperproof.

On the cars mentioned - 3 series from the late 80's the "electronic"
odometer is really a mechanical drum type odometer, that is driven
by pulses from a speed sensor on the rear axle.  These pulses are 
converted into mechanical pulses that turn the odometer - and speedometer.
No way changing or erasing an eprom is going to change the mileage
reading.  It also means the odometer is just as easy (or hard) to
change as any other mechanical odometer.

On the other hand it is a bit easier to disconnect the speed sensor
and run the car with no speedometer or odometer reading...a simple
switch will do the job.  It also will disable the speed limiter,
which will enable the car to reach it's full speed.  ;-)


-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103103
From: baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM
Subject: insurance says car is totalled.




		on wednesday morning, another driver decided to illegally
		turn left in front of me, doing great damage to my car
		(Honda Civic).
		i have yet to pay off the car, and the body shop says the
		insurance company wants to total the car.  i haven't
		been able to get in touch with the person handling my claim,
		so i checked on some things:
	
			1) my payout is $3700.00
			2) Blue Book retail is $5650.00
			3) loan value is $4450.00
			4) trade-in value is $4000.00

		could anyone give me any advice on what i should/could do
		if the insurance company does not give me a reasonable
		amount for the loss of the car.

				thanks,
				james baker

				baker@dfwvx1.dallas.geoquest.slb.com



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103104
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Options that would be great to have...




A list of options that would be useful. They can be existing
options on a car, or things you'd like to have...

1) Tripmeter, great little gadget. Lets you keep rough track of
   mileage, makes a good second guesser for your gas gauge...

2) Full size spare

3) Built in mountings and power systems for radar detectors.

4) a fitting that allows you to generate household current with
the engine running, and plug ins in the trunk, engine compartment
and cabin.

Feel free to add on...

Regards, Charles
x
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103105
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Dumb options list

The idea here is to list pointless options. You know, stuff you
get on a car that has no earthly use?


1) Power windows



Add as you wish...

Regards, Charles
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103106
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)


In a previous article, gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) says:

>>Why should a good driver be terrified at 130mph? The only thing I fear
>>going at 130 are drivers, who switch to the left lane without using
>>either rear-view-mirror or flashers. Doing 130 to 150 ain't a rush
>>for me, but it's fun and I get where I want to go much faster.
>
>In defense of the drivers, who are in the right lane.  Here in the states, people simply do not expect when they are driving to be overtaken at a speed differential of 50+mph.  I don't think this is because they are stupid (of course, there are exceptions), they are just programmed because of the 55mph limit. Do you (in the states) when you look in the rear-view ALWAYS calculate future  positions of cars based on a 50+ speed differential.  
>Dont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake
>cars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the judgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one.  

just to satiate my curiosity, why would this make you the stupid one?  It seems
to me, everybody SHOULD be aware enough of what is going on.  You do not need
to calculate the future position.  You need to look at your mirrors a little
more.  If you glance around, you will be able to tell how much faster than you
the car is going.  Maybe not precisely, but well enough to know if you should
let him around before you try to pass.  I know what you are talking about,
about the other driver being startled, because i myself have been startled
by drivers cruising by at around 90-100mph when i'm doin 55-65.  The problem,
though, as i saw it, was not their fault for barreling around me, but my fault
for not paying the attention to my task-at-hand that i should have been.
Oddly enough, since the 2nd time(happened 2x in around 4 mo. when i'd had my
liscence for around 6 mo), i haven't been startled..and i've been passed by
cars doing roughly twice the speed of my car.  Another odd occurance is the
fact that this only seems to happen on LONG trips...and if i drive along with
them, it doesn't happen at all :-) even on the long trips! :-)  (adrenaline
will do that to you...i've had bad cop experiences with speeding, so anything
over the limit is adrenalizing for me...scared i'll get caught :-)  Maybe
they should raise the limit, so we can pay better attention.....

just curious, and my .otwo

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103107
From: jburrill@boi.hp.com (Jim Burrill)
Subject: Re: Squeekin' Windows

arlen.r.martin (arm1@cbnewsm.cb.att.com) wrote:
: Consumer Reports once wrote about the S-10 Blazer that it "shook and rattled
: like a tired taxi cab".  There is one noise that is expecially irritating -
: the back window squeaks.  I believe its because the whole tailgate assembly
: and window are not solid.  Anyway, has anyone had the same problem, and have
: you found any fixes?
:

I can relate to this. I've tried everything on my 86, greasing every point,
WD40, etc. Grease on the two cheap hinges on the tailgate seems to quiet it
down for a time, until the grease works out of the hinges. (Hinge pins appear
to be made out of 16 penny nails!) 

Another vibration seems to get worse with age, and that is a vibration in the
transmission in 4th gear. My S10 has 59K miles on it. I bought it new, treated
it very easily, no fast off-road stuff. Can't GM build Chevies like they used
to? Ford Explorers look nice, until you look at the price.

Jim Burrill

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103108
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Subject: Re: Saturn's Pricing Policy

I just ordered a Saturn SL1 after considering a few imports. Frankly, the Saturn
way of doing business and service was a *very* big plus. I hadn't bought a new
car since I bought my Honda 4WD back in '85, and I was unbelieveably offended by
most salespeople I met.

Saturn was indeed very different. I made three different visits to the dealer where
I bought my car, and was never pressured. Saturn also had the best after-sales
support, and the fixed pricing made it *very* easy for me to decide exactly what
I wanted to buy. Another big selling point was running into my mechanic at the
dealer. He's been fixing imports for 20 years...and bought a Saturn, based on
what he's seen and heard from his customers. 

Saturn also has a good extended warranty program; $675 for 6 year/60K miles, 
fully refunded if you don't use it. That works out to an actual cost of $170 or
so, based on the 6 year treasury rates. Using savings account rates it's more
like $120. In the first three years it also buys you free rental during any
warranty work, without counting against the refund.

--mike



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103109
From: a207706@moe.dseg.ti.com (Robert Loper)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <C5L8rE.28@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.232412.2261@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us> david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang) writes:
>>In article <5214@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>>In article <chrissC587qB.D1B@netcom.com> chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester) writes:
>>>
>
>Why anyone would order an SHO with an automatic transmission is
>beyond me; if you can't handle a stick, you should stick with a
>regular Taurus and leave the SHO to real drivers. That is not to
>say that there aren't real drivers who can't use the stick (eg
>disabled persons), but they aren't in any position to use an
>SHO anyway. 
>
>I would be willing to bet that if we removed the automatic
>transmissions from all "performance-type" cars (like the 5.0l
>Mustangs, Camaros, and the like) we'd cut down on the number of
>accidents each year. Autos are fine for sedate little sedans,
>but they have no business in performance cars, IMHO.
>
>				James
>
I have to disagree with this.  I have a 92 Z28 with a 350 and a 4-speed auto
w/ overdrive, and it is really better that way.  Chevy autos are reknowned
for their long life and ability to handle copious amount of power.  I live 
in the Dallas area, and a manual would be much harder to drive in the traffic 
here.  Now if I still lived out in the sticks like I used to, a manual would be
more fun.  

Safety-wise, an auto is less distracting...I would hate to have to be    
shifting gears while I was trying to ease into traffic in the freeways here.
Performance-wise, I can hold my own against any stock 5.0 Mustang or 5.0
Camaro w/ a five speed.  

All of this IMHO... :)




-- 
*  Robert L. Loper             * - Infinity is a notion best contemplated    *
*  ROBERTLL@FLOPN2.dseg.ti.com *      in a warm bed.                         *
*  Texas Instruments, Inc.     * - My opinions are my own, not TI's.         *

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103110
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qkon8$3re@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>larger engine.  That's what the SHO is -- a slightly modified family
>sedan with a powerful engine.  They didn't even bother improving the
>*brakes.*

	That shows how much you know about anything.  The brakes on the
SHO are very different - 9 inch (or 9.5? I forget) discs all around,
vented in front.  The normal Taurus setup is (smaller) discs front, 
drums rear.

	Your argument still boils down to "An SHO shouldn't be driven
fast because I, Jim Frost, say it isn't designed to go fast."

	Pffffftttttt.

>If you think so you sure don't pay attention to my postings.

	Damn straight.  You're one of those people who makes stuff
up and tries to pawn it off as God's own truth.  If I want lies I can
go listen to television.

							the wharf rat



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103111
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Where can I get a New York taxi?

In article <15631@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA> tnelson@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA (Tim Nelson) writes:
>The older NY taxis were made by the Checker Car Company, and I would love
>to have one.
>Or, is the Checker Car Company still in business?

	Checker Motors went out of business in 1982.  It's hard to get
old Checkers that are worth restoring, since almost every one was
a fleet vehicle that was driven into the ground.  If you can get a 
body in decent shape the mechanicals should all be available _somewhere_ - 
Checker used whatever parts were around.  For instance, I had a Chevy
straight six and a GMC Truck radiator and a Ford rear in mine.

>
>The model that I am looking for is the Checker Marathon.

	Actually, you want a Checker Special if you can find one.

	Good luck.  I'm sorry I let mine go...



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103112
From: gregg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Gregg L. Kasten)
Subject: differences in insurance companies' rates

I am considering buying an new car, so I called three insurance
companies in California to get estimates. I asked for the same
coverage and same deductibles. Most of the companies charge you
according to your zip code. Others charge according to your city.
Anyhow, I gave the same zip code and city to all three places. Here's
what I found (for a '93 Integra GS):

AAA: ~$2000/yr.
State Farm: 2614.92/yr.
Allstate: 1220/yr.

AAA is non-profit, so they said I could also expect to receive about
$200-300 back at the end of the year.

Still, There is a huge gap between all of these companies. State Farm
wants MORE than TWICE as much as Allstate. I think I should be
suspicious, but I've never heard anybody else complain.

Any comments?

Thanks,
Gregg L. Kasten
gregg@cs.stanford.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103113
From: hamachi@adobe.com (Gordon Hamachi)
Subject: Re: Honda Accord Brake Problem

Joni Ciarletta writes
> My Honda Accord just hit the magic 100,000 mile mark and now
> all sorts of things are beginning to go bad. The latest problem
> I am experiencing is with my brakes.  They still stop the
> car fine, but once I am stopped completely, my brake pedal
> will sink another 2 or 3 inches all by itself.  If feels really
> strange, and I am worried my brakes will quit working one of
> these days.
> 
> I checked my brake fluid, and the reservoir was full, but the
> fluid itself looked really dirty (like dirty oil).  I called
> my mechanic and he told me I need a new brake master cylinder,
> which will cost me a whopping $250-300.

You are not alone.  My '79 Honda Accord with 110,000 miles on it started  
showing the same behavior.

I replaced the brake master cylinder myself.  It took about an hour and cost  
about $45.  Sure beats paying $300 to have someone else do it!  If I wanted to  
rebuild my own master cylinder instead of putting in a rebuilt one, it would  
have cost only $20 to $30 for the rebuild kit.

The Honda brake master cylinder is easy to get to.  Two bolts attach it to the  
engine compartment.  Two brake lines enter the master cylinder.  The tricky  
part was that the brake lines were stuck tight.  My Craftsmen open end wrench  
rounded off the bolt heads!  I had to use Vise Grips to loosen those suckers.   
Wow!  Best invention since sliced bread.  After that it was very easy.  Bolt  
the new part in place, add new brake fluid, and bleed the brakes.

This is quite easy even for a beginner.  My local auto parts store had a repair  
manual for the Honda Accord; it had detailed diagrams of the master brake  
cylinder and a step-by-step procedure for replacing it.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103114
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: Options that would be great to have...


In a previous article, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) says:


A list of options that would be useful. They can be existing
options on a car, or things you'd like to have...

1) Tripmeter, great little gadget. Lets you keep rough track of>
   mileage, makes a good second guesser for your gas gauge...

2) Full size spare

3) Built in mountings and power systems for radar detectors.

4) a fitting that allows you to generate household current with
the engine running, and plug ins in the trunk, engine compartment
and cabin.

Feel free to add on...

5) Power windows
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103115
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Subject: Manual Shift Bigots

Now, my ego with regards to my shifting ability is as big as anyone else's, but
I just ordered my first car with an auto trans. I wasn't planning on it; but
after driving a few I was convinced: Things have changed since the days of 
"Slip 'n' Slide Withe Powerglide". They shift *better* than I do, there's no
clutch to wear out (Honda wanted $800 for my 4WD wagon last year!- got it done
for $500), it only costs about 5% in gas milage on the highway and it makes it
easier to concentrate on all the radios in my car ;-)

(Oddly enough, while two of my best friends- both in the auto industry here in the 
Motor City- have switched wholeheartedly to autos, their wives *insist* on 
manual. Shift envy?)

Braggadocio aside, given today's technology and the warranties they're handing 
out the auto trans seemed like an excellent choice. Call me a convert.

  --mike


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103116
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Subject: Re: Saturn 91-92 Manual Transmission Problem

In article KA6@crdnns.crd.ge.com,  cimjfg@sn370.utica.ge.com writes:
 ."
>
>After many trips to the dealer, who has admittedly been patient with me,
>they are admittedly going to do nothing about it....>
>The dealer did however follow the Bulletin and "review proper shifing
>procedures with the owner"....
>My next attempt at satisfaction in the Customer 800 number but from the first
>round it doesn't sound too hopeful.
>

I'm surprised. I know of a local case where a guy took his Saturn back five
times to complain they hadn't properly eliminated a rattling noise...so Saturn
gave him a new car.

Call that 1-800 number.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103117
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: Too fast


In a previous article, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) says:

>In article <1qkon8$3re@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>larger engine.  That's what the SHO is -- a slightly modified family
>>sedan with a powerful engine.  They didn't even bother improving the
>>*brakes.*
>
>	That shows how much you know about anything.  The brakes on the
>SHO are very different - 9 inch (or 9.5? I forget) discs all around,
>vented in front.  The normal Taurus setup is (smaller) discs front, 
>drums rear.

one i saw had vented rears too...it was on a lot.
of course, the sales man was a fool..."titanium wheels"..yeah, right..
then later told me they were "magnesium"..more believable, but still
crap, since Al is so m uch cheaper, and just as good....


i tend to agree, tho that this still doesn't take the SHO up to "standard"
for running 130 on a regular basis.  The brakes should be bigger, like
11" or so...take a look at the  ones on the Corrados.(where they have
braking regulations).

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103118
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC


In a previous article, a207706@moe.dseg.ti.com (Robert Loper) says:

>In article <C5L8rE.28@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr15.232412.2261@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us> david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang) writes:
>>>In article <5214@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>>>In article <chrissC587qB.D1B@netcom.com> chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester) writes:
>>>>
>>
>>Why anyone would order an SHO with an automatic transmission is
>>beyond me; if you can't handle a stick, you should stick with a
>>regular Taurus and leave the SHO to real drivers. That is not to
>>say that there aren't real drivers who can't use the stick (eg
>>disabled persons), but they aren't in any position to use an
>>SHO anyway. 
>>
>>I would be willing to bet that if we removed the automatic
>>transmissions from all "performance-type" cars (like the 5.0l
>>Mustangs, Camaros, and the like) we'd cut down on the number of
>>accidents each year. Autos are fine for sedate little sedans,
>>but they have no business in performance cars, IMHO.
>>
>>				James
>>
>I have to disagree with this.  I have a 92 Z28 with a 350 and a 4-speed auto
>w/ overdrive, and it is really better that way.  Chevy autos are reknowned
>for their long life and ability to handle copious amount of power.  I live 
>in the Dallas area, and a manual would be much harder to drive in the traffic 
>here.  Now if I still lived out in the sticks like I used to, a manual would be
>more fun.  
>
>Safety-wise, an auto is less distracting...I would hate to have to be    
>shifting gears while I was trying to ease into traffic in the freeways here.
>Performance-wise, I can hold my own against any stock 5.0 Mustang or 5.0
>Camaro w/ a five speed.  
>
>All of this IMHO... :)

all of my HO's disagree with your HO's.  I LOVED Dallas rush hour in my stick..
detested it in the auto(like i did any other time in the auto...).  Of course,
Dalls rush hours are nothing, from what i hear..if i lived in LA, i might
be of a different persuasion.  And, just for the record, rarely do you shift
gears when merging into traffic..that is what 5 speeds are good for..4th is
good up through around 80-90, most of the time, so you can just wind it out..
it's not going to hurt anything, and keeps it in the powerband anyway..
only shift into top gear when you are exceeding redline in 4th(fairly rare,
unless you drive a ferrari or some such, i'd bet) or when you hit cruising 
speed where you feel comfortable(or when my mother is sitting in the 
passanger seat complaining about how you wind her "poor little engine" way
too hi :-)
Just my HO's..

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103119
From: <LRR105@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dents on car.

All you have to do is turn it in to the police like you would an accident,
get a report and send it in to your insurance company and they will contact
the other guys insurance company and they will have to pay just as they
would in an accident they caused.  Thus no need to go to court.  A friend of
mine did this and he got the money so it does work.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103120
From: rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ronald.j.deblock..jr)
Subject: Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles

In article <20726.2bcd8b62@ecs.umass.edu> sylveste@ecs.umass.edu writes:
>Before the S4 became the S4 it was called the 200 turbo quattro 20v.
>This model did come in a wagon, a very quick wagon.  Very rare also.
>
>                                                   Mike Sylvester  Umass
>

Yes, I saw a 200 Turbo Quattro wagon on I-287 in NJ on Monday.  I thought
Audi stopped selling wagons in the US after the 5000.  This is exactly the
type of vehicle I would like to own.  I bet its price is 4-5 times my
car budget.
-- 
Ron DeBlock  rdb1@homxb.att.com  (that's a number 1 in rdb1, not letter l)
AT&T Bell Labs   Somerset, NJ  USA

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103121
From: gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <C5unFy.E7I@dove.nist.gov> keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys) writes:
>In article <C5uI6u.Ao0@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr21.171811.25933@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>>>
>>>In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>>>>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>>>>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>>>>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>>>>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
>>>
Don't worry about this -- they'll drop you like a hot potato after you do
  make a claim. They'll just make filing the claim a pain, but it will end
  when they leave you in the lurch.

>>>I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
>>>guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).
More than that. GEICO funded the company that developed LIDAR. When locals 
  showed a reluctance to BUY the units, GEICO started giving them away. I
  know they've given units to the Florida Highway Patrol, County Sheriff's a
  and some local governments.
The real question is why? This is the hook. GEICO, and other Ins. Co.s can
  tell which drivers represent risk. This is a determination they can make
  AFTER YOU receive a speeding ticket from one of GEICO's LIDAR units. Most
  drivers do not represent increased risk even after a ticket or two, but 
  this gives them the opportunity to RAISE RATES FOR EQUAL RISK. It's called
  extra profits. They also know how silly the NSL is, and how it is almost
  universally ignored. Driving in excess of the NSL gets you a ticket, an
  increase in your rates, points on your license --- but it doesn't make you
  a riskier driver to insure.
Like the sound of this? Like the people who thought up the scheme? Go GEICO!

Unless you have some driving history problems, you're usually better to go
with one of the major companies and stay there. You'll get long term customer
discounts on your premiums. Now, about the % of your premium that is paid as
commission. That's another story for another day.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103122
From: gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)


Bob: Excellent! To the point and correct! Spread the word. 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103123
Subject: Lexus and Infiniti
From: w00026@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU

First off, the correct spelling of Nissan's luxury automobile division
is "Infiniti" not "Infinity."  I would also like to clear up the question
of what kind of engines power Lexus and Infiniti automobiles, since a
person had remarked in earlier posts that most Lexus and Infiniti models
had V6 engines, while at the same time saying that several of each
manufacturer used V8 engines.

Lexus:
  LS400- V8
  GS300- V6
  ES300- V6
  SC400- V8
  SC300- V6

Infiniti:
  Q45- V8
  J30- V6
  G20- inline 4 (I must admit that I cannot remeber for sure here)

I hope this helps.

-BSB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103124
From: monet@carson.u.washington.edu (Diana Smith)
Subject: Borgward question


My ex-husband & I used to own Borgwards.  Haven't seen any for a long
time.  They were really good cars.  Does ayone out there know anything
about them now?  I heard they were being made in Mexico, but of course
they wouldn't be the original German - if that's even true.  When I've
been in Mexico I haven't seen any.  We loved ours, even tho' they were
ugly - they had names - one was Humphrey Borgward.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103125
From: petebre@elof.iit.edu (Brent A. Peterson)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <C5xtp7.MtB@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
>In article <1993Apr22.192652.3032@virginia.edu> jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blade Runner") writes:
>>I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
>>that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
>>will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
>>way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
>>100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
>>Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
>>there hear anything about it recently?
>
>
>If everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but "re-
>skinning" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications.
>And the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job
>of it.  
>
>The "new" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car.
>
>Jeff
>
>
gee.... is it 1999 already?

Yes, it will still be on the fox program chasis, anything that will be different
on the new car as far as mechanical's is unknown. The suspension will most
likely be changed, as well as the drive drain. From what has been printed on
it, there is no clear idea of what will be done, as some say it will have
the modular V8 and others the current small block... just have to wait and see
Also is far as styling goes from what I seen is good, a return to tradition.
C scoop on the sides and roof line much like a '65 or '66 fastback.

    -Bp
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103126
From: tommy@boole.att.com (Tommy Reingold)
Subject: Re: Likelihood of radio being stolen

The question is not whether your radio will be stolen.  The question is
when your radio will be stolen.
-- 
Tommy Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103127
From: ivab015@chpc.utexas.edu (Albert Wu)
Subject: A/C Service Rip-off

I went to a place called American Car Care Centers to check my car for A/C
leak.  After "checking", I was told that there is a leak in the compressor
seal.  At the end, in addition to the labor for the check, I was charged 12
dollars for a pound of freon, although they evacuated my A/C afterwards
because of the leak.  First, is it fair for him to charge me for a pound of
freon ($12 plus tax) ?  Second, what can I do about this if this is unfair ?

-- Albert Wu.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103128
From: bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article <20APR199310391109@csa3.lbl.gov> jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera) writes:
>Wharf Wrat rites:
>
>>They were designed for speeds of upwards of 80 - I forget the
>>exact spec - but for military vehicles.  That's 80 in a 1958 Dodge 
>>Powerwagon.  Not 80 in a 1993 Ford Taurus.
>
>Ever' once in a while, you still see a reference to the super-
>slab system as "Interstate and Defense Highways."  But whether
>the military has much of anything that goes 80 on the road is
>another matter.  A few of their most whomped-up diesel trucks,
>maybe, load permitting.  The military surplus stuff I've
>driven -- "Jeep Classic" (Willys/Kaiser/AMC, pre-independent
>suspension) and Power Wagons (Slant 6 in a crew-cab pickup)

Actually, I've heard that some M1 Abrams tank commanders take the 
governers off their turbine engines, and can acheive 90MPH on a
paved road.  Never seen it myself, but I believe it...

>weren't exactly congenial at highway speeds, and I wouldn't
>swear any of them would do 80 except as a bedload on a semi.

[stuff deleted]

>
>--Joe
>"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ___          
       / _ \                 '85 Mustang GT                        Bob Pitas
      /    /USH              14.13 @ 99.8                      bpita@ctp.com
     / /| \                  Up at NED, Epping, NH           (Cambridge, MA)

                           "" - Geddy Lee (in YYZ)
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103129
From: bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1r1d62$d6s@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:
>rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
>>How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
>>agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?
>
>Hear, hear!  Thanks, Robbie.
>
>You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as
>George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,
>who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.
>
>
>On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers
>for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be.
>Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do
>with people of all ages.

Well, this isn't the right group for this, but I have to say that I don't
think violence is any more socially acceptable now, by any means.  How
can you say that when we used to have of pistol-toting gunslingers as 
heros, or even gangland thugs being considered romantic.  Do you think
our great grandparent got yelled at by their parents for playing cowboys
and indians?  I don't think so.  That behavior was somewhat encouraged
back then, in fact.
I think the only difference between now and then is that nowadays, when
some teenager kills another one in a classroom in California, we here 
about it in MA the same day.  Back in the old days, they'd never hear 
about something like that, period. 

Sorry about posting to rec.autos, but this is where it came up...


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ___          
       / _ \                 '85 Mustang GT                        Bob Pitas
      /    /USH              14.13 @ 99.8                      bpita@ctp.com
     / /| \                  Up at NED, Epping, NH           (Cambridge, MA)

                           "" - Geddy Lee (in YYZ)
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103130
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu> eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>
>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>
         A 180 degree V   Ya gotta love it !>
>eliot



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103131
From: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Subject: Re: locking lugnuts / tire rebalance??

In rec.autos, mas@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
xIf you put a locking lugnut on your tires, do you need to have your
xtires rebalanced??
x
xJohn Mas
x
xE-Mail Address     ::     MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM

Since the wheel/tire is balanced off the car i.e. the lugnuts are
not normally involved, how would they do that? I would think that
since the lugs are so close to the center of rotation any slight
difference in weight between a normal lugnut and a locking one would
not have any noticable effect on the balance. I could be wrong, it *is*
Friday afternoon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mack Costello <mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)
David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC    ___/-\____
Bethesda, MD 20084-5000   Phone (301) 227-2431          (__________>|

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103132
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <nataraja.735495588@geode14> nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan) writes:
>mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:
>
>>In <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>
>>>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>>>have v engines.
>
>>>V4 - I don't know of any.
>
>ditto
         Seems to me that I heard that some early Saabs were 2 cycle V4's.
   Then again, who could possibly care ?>
>>>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>
>What's an "MR3, or MR6"?
>Most any GM w/ the 3800 V6.
>
>
>>>V8 - Don't know of any.
>>Mustang 5.0 (302)
>>Camaros & Firebirds
>>Some Mercedes'
>Lexus LS400 (SC400)
>Infinity Q45
>
>
>>>V12 - Jaguar XJS
>
>Some Mercedes
>BMW 750il
>Lamborghini Countach
>Lamborghini Diablo
>
>>> Please add to the list.
>
>-- 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-- Vel Natarajan  nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL  --
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103133
From: jao@megatest.com (John Oswalt)
Subject: Re: legal car buying problems

rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
: In article <9285.27317@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> bob@runway.swdc.stratus.com (Bob Hutson) writes:
: >After agreeing to terms I signed the contract and drove home in my new
: >car.  Later that same night I noticed that the terms in the were
: >different from the terms I had agreed to.  (I made the stupid mistake
: >of not checking everything on the contract).  This all happened last
: >Saturday.
: >
: >I have heard that there is a "cooling-off" law allowing me three days
: >to reconsider the contract.  Is this true?  Can anyone point me to the
: >law?  The transaction happened at the dealership, if it matters.
: 
: This cooling off period applies only in certain situations - lik ewhen
: you are solicited at home.  I also think the cooling off period ends
: if you actually accept the merchandise.
: 
: If this were not the case, any car buyer would have the right to return
: a slightly used, highly devalued, car 2 days after buying it.  Yeah - 
: that's the trick - if I want to buy a new car, I'd have a firend buy 
: & return one, then go in and negotiate a better deal on a pre-owned
: used car.

However, if you agree some terms, and then, when about to sign, the
dealer slips you a contract with different terms, and leads you to
believe that it embodies the terms you verbally agreed to, that
is fraud.  There is no 3 day limit on restitution for fraud.

You may have to sue (and win) to get out of this.  You will almost
certainly have to threaten to sue.
-- 

John Oswalt        jao@megatest.com     or    jao@netcom.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103134
From: yjwon@deca.cs.umn.edu (Youjip Won)
Subject: Information needed...

Hi! This is my first time to post on this news group. Now a days , I have stucked at a certain problem. I have '88 mazda mx-6, non  turbo fuel injection.
   There is a engine warning signal on the dash board. While driving, this signal turns on, but not always. What does this mean? In the manual, they say "Go to authorized mazda dealer.". It is really good idea. Don't you think so? 
  I wanna know how the engine warning signal comes. Is anybody out there who can give me same advice as "authorized mazda dealer" can give ?

Youjip Won

yjwon@cs.umn.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103135
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti

In article <1993Apr23.105438.3245@msus1.msus.edu> w00026@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
>First off, the correct spelling of Nissan's luxury automobile division
>is "Infiniti" not "Infinity."

who cares about typos of these meaningless, synthetic names?  if the
cars were named after a person, e.g. honda, i'd be more respectful.

>Lexus:
>  GS300- V6
>  ES300- V6
>  SC300- V6

wrong!  the GS300 and SC300 use straight sixes, while the ES300 uses a
V6.  only a giant like toyota can afford to have both a V6 and inline
6 in its lineup, but that won't last for long.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103136
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: Help!!!(With Buick Regal)

In article <C5wyKp.L98@ulowell.ulowell.edu> gvahe@cs.ulowell.edu (Gerry Vahe) writes:
>
>
>HHHEEELLLPPP!!!!
>
>---I'm Going crazy.  I have a 1981 buick regal with over 100,000 miles on it.
>
>Just recently, when I go Over a bump of any size,  The rear drivers's side of th
>
>e car feels like there is something hitting the floor board.  The noise is ampli
>
>fied when I am going around a corner when there is less weight above the tire wh
>
>en I hit a bump.
>
>I had the whole brake drum off today, checked under the car to see if th
>
>e muffler was hitting or something and I cant seem to find anything at all.  Eve
>
>rything seems to be tight.
>
>
>
>---Any Ideas?  Could it bee a shock absorber?  Is there any way I can tell?
>
>Anything will help and be greatly appreciated
>-gerry
        Check out the shocks where they mount, at both ends. if you have
    the type that have a loop?,from lack of a better term, and a bolt like
   piece sticking through, there should be a rubber bushing between the loop
   and the bolt. Is it there ? is it crushed and allowing metal to metal
    contact?  I hope you can make some sense of this. Good Luck.>
>
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103137
From: reaper@wixer.bga.com (Keath Milligan)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <gjg2001-220493224950@m248-103.bgsu.edu> gjg2001@andy.bgsu.edu (Greg Gantzer) writes:
>In article <1993Apr22.192652.3032@Virginia.EDU>, jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The
>Blade Runner") wrote:
>> 
>> I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
>> that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
>> will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
>> way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
>> 100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
>> Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
>> there hear anything about it recently?
>
>Yeah, it looks like shit!!!  Nothing like the mach III. Check out the
>latest issue of popular mechanics, they have a picture of one.  It looks
>like a cross between a dodge daytona and an eagle talon, only much uglier. 
>This car looks like it should have been produced in 1990, not 1994.

I'll pick up that PM and have a look -- maybe the picture in there is not
the actual car, but a prototype?

I saw the Mach III and was not all that impressed -- it looked WAY too
Japanese for me... the tear drop headlights reminded me of a Nissan NX...

Glad I didn't hold out for the '94 and bought a '93.  Maybe they'll work on
the design a little bit, listen to consumers and come out with nice-looking
'95 or '96.  It always takes a while to work out the kinks in a new design,
e.g. the F-body Camaro/Firebirds (btw, the new Camaros look like shit too).
-- 
Keath Milligan, Software Engineer, VideoTelecom Corporation, Austin, Texas
jkm@vtel.com, reaper@wixer.bga.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try Real/Time Communications! (512-459-4391 or telnet wixer.bga.com)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103138
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions

In article <C5wEqE.5IG@news.rich.bnr.ca> herling@crchh111.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brent Herling) writes:
>
>
>>In article <1993Apr21.160341.24707@westminster.ac.uk>, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
>>|> I just wanted to know:
>>|> 
>>|> To wheelspin in an auto, you keep the gear in N - gas it - then stick the 
>>|> gear in D... I've never tried this but am sure it works - but does this screw 
>>|> up the autobox? We're having a bit of a debate about it here...
>>
>>
>>Ah yes,  the neutral slam.
>>
>>I know that GM tested the old th400's and th350's by shifting from reverse to
>>forward gears repeatedly while holding the engine at high rpms.  the units hold
>>up incredibly well.  This is also the recommended technique to "rock" a stuck
>>vehicle out of the mud.  I think the hydraulics are up to the task, but the
>>mechanicals of the driveline may object by breaking something.
>>
>>$0.02
>>
>>Ericy 
>I agree about the durability of the old TH400 trannies from GM.  While I 
>never intentionally slamed my '68 Firebird 400 ci Conv. into gear, I would leave 
>the trannie in Low (read 1st), grab hold, hit the pedal, and once the tires 
>grabbed, take off.  When I reached about 57-60mph the turbo 400 Auto would 
>shift to S (read 'super' or 2nd) and leave about 10 to 15 foot of double 
>stripped rubber on the ground.  Most everyone I knew at the time was quite 
>impressed with 'peeling' out at 60 MPH.  The trannie held up just fine.
>Motor mounts would last about a year until I tied the motor down with large
>chains.  Oh yea,FYI:    Pontiac 400 ci bored 0.04 over   
>                        Large Valve heads
>                        Holley 650 Spread bore
>                        Crain 'BLAZER' cam (don't remember the specs)
>                        PosiTrac, Hooker headers, Dual exhaust
>                        Get this (Conv., leather seats, power windows
>                                  power top, AC, Cruise etc.) 
>
>  Oh yea, I also pulled the 'Cocktail shakers' (weights) from the front
>  and removed the lead pellet from the accelerator pedal. (Damn US regulations)   
> OH, HOW I MISS THAT CAR!!! 
>  -- 0-60 under 6.7 sec  and about 6 to 14 mpg (well I don't miss the mpg)
>  -- front wheels 4" off the ground with three quick jabs at the pedal.
>  -- bent pushrods, stripped rocker studs,  every 6-12 months 
>     ( I really wonder what kind of rev's I was turning - no tach)
>Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions
>  Anyone seen one of these lately?  I'd buy it back in a sec!!!
>
>OPEN TOP Brent

        Am I the only one that smells a little  El caca Del Toro here ???

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103139
From: "Arun G. Jayakumar" <aj22+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: VASCAR

I know this is the wrong place to post this, but I couldn't find any
relevant newsgroups in my area.

For those of you who are from PA, where is VASCAR (where the cops
measure your speed from the time it takes you to cross the distance
between two white lines on the road, right?) most commonly used?  I'm
especially interested in the Pittsburgh area (specific locations, prior
experiences, if possible).  For those PA and non-PA, if they use VASCAR
in your state, is it most common in rural, city, highway areas, etc. 
What I'm interested in mainly is where I can speed with the least risk
of being caught.  You can always detect radar, but there's no way to
fight VASCAR unless you know where all the white lines are.

Thanks a lot,

    Arun Jayakumar

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103140
From: goose@vaxeline  (Kevin Gosson)
Subject: 89 Honda CRX DX

	    1989 Honda CRX DX, White w/Blue int. 
	    Original owner,  59,500 miles, mostly highway.
	    Recent tune-up, new battery
	    Oil changed every 3000 miles
	    Kenwood high power cassette receiver, w/ 4 spkrs
	    $6800 or best reasonable offer

	    If interested, please e-mail me at goose@ftp.com
	    or call after 6pm  603-437-6348 ask for kevin




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103141
From: <U59985@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?

I've had a Valentine for about 9 months now and I agree that it is the best det
ector available. The point here is trust and reliability. I've been able to "tr
ust" the Valentine more than any other detector I've owend. If the Valentine sa
ys that there is a moderate to strong radar source in front of me, then it's mo
re than likely to be a speed trap. With my other detectors, I've gotten so many
 falses that I've begun to ignore someo of the warnings because I didn't want t
o drive like I had one foot on the brake and one on the gas pedal.

That directional indicator really, really helps. Plus, more info is almost alwa
ys better than less info. No matter how smart radar detectors get, the human br
ain is usually smarter. So, if I'm going to make a decisio based on information
 at hand, I want all the info I can get. Plus, if you divide the overall streng
th of the radar signal by the number of bogeys reported, you'll find that each
bogey is pretty weak and therefore not a radar threat. With other detectors, yo
u'll just get one strong warning. My logic may be faulty on this, but I think i
t works okay.

Although, I must admit that I haven't really noticed the reflection problem of
one radar souce.

Thomas

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103142
From: <U59985@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Re: Saturn Extended Warranty

I agree with Gaia. Even though the Saturn has proved to be a very reliable car
so far, a little money spent now is worth the peace of mind.

In my opinion, getting the PowerTrain warranty is enough. In my case, that's be
cause; anything that needed repairing in the interior (sunroof, windows, doors,
 etc.) I could do myself. I just didn't want to mess with the engine and such.

Plus I think the extra 3 years of 24-hour RoadSide Assistance must be worthe so
meting. I opted for the 5 year plan for $375.

Thomas


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103143
From: yjkim@ton.berkeley.edu (Young-jin Kim)
Subject: '89 Toyota Camry - $9000

89' Toyota Camry LE 4 dr sedan
AC AT power windows and locks
53k miles, asking $9000.
Pls call 510-526-8248 or send e-mail to this account.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103144
From: tcora@pica.army.mil (Tom Coradeschi)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) wrote:
> 
> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
> >wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
> >>>
> >>>Remember roads in America are NOT designed for speeds above 80 meaning they
> >                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>>would be safe at 55-65. Roads like the Autobahn are smoother, straiter,
> >>>wider and slightly banked. 
> >>
> >>	Well, that's news.  Before 1975 the speed limit on Texas highways
> >>was 75.  The speed limit on the New Jersey Turnpike (I-95) was 70.  There
> >>were no speed limits in Nevada or Montana.
> >
> >I guess I wasn't clear enough here. I said the roads WERE designed for 
> >speeds of 80 or so and still be safe. The current 55-65 will add a saftey
> >margin.
> >
> 
> Actually, the roads were designated as safe at 80 when they were built
> in the 1950's taking into account the kinds of cars then available. The
> number would be much higher today because the cars, tires and just about
> everything else has imprivoved a lot.

Except the drivers.

                  tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil
 
   "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."
                                                    --gene spafford, 1992

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103145
From: kchong@mothra.nts.uci.edu (Keith Chong)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti

In article <1993Apr23.105438.3245@msus1.msus.edu> w00026@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
>First off, the correct spelling of Nissan's luxury automobile division
>is "Infiniti" not "Infinity."  I would also like to clear up the question
>of what kind of engines power Lexus and Infiniti automobiles, since a
>person had remarked in earlier posts that most Lexus and Infiniti models
>had V6 engines, while at the same time saying that several of each
>manufacturer used V8 engines.
>
>Lexus:
>  LS400- V8
>  GS300- V6
>  ES300- V6
>  SC400- V8
>  SC300- V6

The GS300 and SC300 have an inline 6.

>
>Infiniti:
>  Q45- V8
>  J30- V6
>  G20- inline 4 (I must admit that I cannot remeber for sure here)

Inline 4 is correct.

>
>I hope this helps.
>
>-BSB

Keith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103146
From: brian@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Brian Donnell)
Subject: VAL-1 vs. BEL966STi (was Re: Best Radar Detector)

In article <1993Apr22.204921.12644@convex.com>, tobias@convex.com (Allen
Tobias) wrote:
> 
> I live in the backyard of the folks who make the Stalker radar system. The
> Valentine 1 has saved me many, many, many times from the stealth revenue
> enhancement traps of the local area. I have had all the major brand detectors,
> and, IMHO, nothing else even comes close to the V1!
> 

I hadn't heard of the Valentine-1 before. Car&Driver and other auto
magazines
recommend BEL detectors.  I was considering their latest - the 966STi -
which picks up Super Wideband Ka and Laser as well.  It also avoids 
radar detector detectors (although I really don't care about this since I
doubt I'll be driving in Virginia anytime soon - or have any other states
also made detectors iilegal?)

How does the Valentine-1 compare with the BEL products?

Brian Donnell

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103147
From: mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett)
Subject: Re: V4 engines

In <pwe.735571191@slipknot.mit.edu> pwe@slipknot.mit.edu (Paul W. Emery) writes:

>On the subject of the V4,Ford in the UK used V4 engines exstensively in
>their Ford Transit vans.This brings back a memory from the seventies.I
>played in a band at the time and for something like 180 pounds four of
>us bought a 1967 "tranny" to cart the gear around in.It was in terrible
>shape (cosmetically) because it's last owner was a pig farmer.We spent
>days cleaning it up and putting in a partition and more seating but 'til
>the day it died everytime you turned on the fan to the defroster dried
>pig shit came flying out the vents!!!.
>    Back to the engine if I remember right it was a 1600cc V4 and that
>thing could haul,we could fill it with equipment and up to 8 people and
>it went like a bat out of hell,of course there were no pollution controls
>on the engine and the gas was leaded and higher octane than we get now.
>    When the mechanical fuel pump quit we put in an electric one from a 
>Morris Minor that worked great. Ah fond memories.

Saab Sonnet III too I believe.


>-- 
>pwe@slipknot.mit.edu                 "I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
>Paul W. Emery                       Ron Nasty--The Rutles
>M I T Magnet Lab Cambridge Mass U.S.A.   
>COSTELLOBEATLESSPINALTAPFAWLTYTOWERSMUTTSAVENGERSSTARTREK.TNGENGLANDRUTLES  
-- 
/-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-\
| |\/|  __   -=> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu <=- (mliggett@iugold.bitnet  |
* |  |/\||   'junk' collector, toys R us kid, antiauthoritarian, and fan of   *
| frogs, iguanas, and other herps.					      |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103148
From: n3022@cray.com (Jim Knoll)
Subject: Thanks - '86 Nova Advice

I want to thank all the people that responded to my post
a few weeks ago about buying an '86 Chev Nova with over
100,000 mi.

I decided to buy the car and have had it for about a month.
I replaced the front brake pads and changed the oil.  So far
no problems have surfaced.

I received many suggestions and encouragement on this
purchase and figured a late "thank you" was better than none.

Thanks to all!

Jim

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103149
From: mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In <1993Apr23.132214.6755@cs.tulane.edu> finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil writes:

>In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
>eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>>
>>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>>
>>
>>eliot

>Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
>really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
>"underscore 4")?

horizontally opposed 4.
or 'boxer'
great idea, actually..
smooth running; low center of gravity..
also used in some honda gullwings, corvairs, porsches (others?)
...

>Kenneth
>finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil




-- 
/-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-\
| |\/|  __   -=> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu <=- (mliggett@iugold.bitnet  |
* |  |/\||   'junk' collector, toys R us kid, antiauthoritarian, and fan of   *
| frogs, iguanas, and other herps.					      |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103150
From: tflynn@encore.com (Tonya R. Flynn)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

In article <C5unFJ.2pA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Tom Wetzel <twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>In article <1r1tth$b9i@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Andrew A. Spencer,
>aas7@po.CWRU.Edu writes:
>>>: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
>
>I was about to recommend you consider a targa top over a convertible but, 
>DREW made the point very well.  When my wife and I were in our 20s we
>did the convertible thing with Triumphs.  Now in our mid-40s, we still
>appreciate the open air but prefer targa types.  There is much less wind
>noise, objects/papers blowing around, foreign objects getting into the
>car and one still has almost all the advantages of the convertible.  
>

My last car had T-Tops (BIG T-Tops).  My current car is a convertible.
IMHO, if you're after that 'convertible feel', T-Tops, open-top,
sunroofs, moonroofs, whatever, just don't cut it.  There's no
substitute for a convertible.  If you're not after that sun beating
down on you, the wind in your hair and teeth, the flopsum and
jetsum getting in the car and the noises associated with the
whooshing of the wind, you're not after that 'convertible feel'.
So go with something with at least a hole above the driver but don't call
it a convertible.

And I do wonder how those targa tops would compare against my roll
bar in a rollover situation.  Of course, I'd rather not test it
in MY car.  I, too, am in my early 40s.

A convertible--accept no substitute.

                                           |
Tonya (I'd rather be Sailing) Flynn       /|\      6901 W. Sunrise Blvd.
(305/797-2446)                           / | \     Ft. Lauderdale, Fl 33313
"Let's just punch through that        ----------   UUCP:  uunet!gould!tflynn
sand bar"--Crew of Natty Dread          ------     INTERNET: tflynn@encore.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103151
From: kenw@netaxs.com (Kenneth Warren)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

And here's my two cents:

The best convertible for the money, IMO, is the Miata. Yes, it's small, but
you're buying it as a second car, I hope, so you don't need the cargo room
of a big car. It's got enough power for fun, it's RWD like a sports car
ought to be (I'm gonna regret that :-{) and the top, while manual, operates
like a dream. 30 seconds and one hand to lower, and not much longer to raise.

The targa-type cars are nice, but they're not real convertibles.

--

*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
  Ken Warren             |The secrets of a good life are early nights, good
                         |food, excercise, and clean living...
  E-Mail: kenw@netaxs.com|But the secrets of a happy life are late nights,
                         |wild parties, kinky sex, and junk food!
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103152
From: hamachi@adobe.com (Gordon Hamachi)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

I came across this interesting information in my local public library while  
researching minivans.  It is the dealer price and the retail price for a  
minivan I am thinking about purchasing.  Someone told me that the number for  
base price was slightly lower than the current price, but this should still  
give you some idea about pricing and how much you can negotiate.


Mercury Villager GS
                          Dealer     Retail
Base Price                $14688     16504
Air Conditioning             729       857
Rear Defroster               143       168
Calif. Emissions              87       102
7 Passenger Seating          282       332
AM/FM Radio (no cassette)    STD       STD
Automatic Transmission       STD       STD
Anti-lock brakes             STD       STD
Destination                  540       540

The total dealer cost is $16469
The total retail price is $18467



Nissan Quest XE
                          Dealer     Retail
Base Price                $15212     17545
Air Conditioning             STD       STD
Rear Defroster               STD       STD
Calif. Emissions              59        70
7 Passenger Seating          STD       STD
AM/FM Cassette               STD       STD
Automatic Transmission       STD       STD
Anti-lock brakes             593       700
Destination                  540       540

The total dealer cost is $16404
The total retail price is $18855

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103153
From: wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions

Shazad Barlas (jkjec@westminster.ac.uk) wrote:
: To wheelspin in an auto, you keep the gear in N - gas it - then stick the 
: gear in D... I've never tried this but am sure it works - but does this screw 
: up the autobox? We're having a bit of a debate about it here...

I've known more people to leave their rear ends in pieces doing this, 
especially if they have reasonable power to transmit and good traction
on the road surface.

You're better off powerbraking.

Wes Fujii
________________________________________________________________
      ___   ___ ___ 
     /  /  /  //  /
    /  /__/  //  /    A real motor is an Oldsmobile Rocket 455
   /  HURST //  /     "This is NOT the new generation of Olds"
  /  /  /  //  /_______ 
 /__/  /__//  //  ___  \
          /  //  /   \  \       Wes "BANZAI" Fujii
         /  //  /OLDS/  /          Boise, Idaho
        /  / \  \___/  /      wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
       /__/   \_______/ 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103154
From: rvkl60@email.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes)
Subject: Re: locking lugnuts / tire rebalance??

In article <1993Apr22.145940.1@skcla.monsanto.com> mas@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
>If you put a locking lugnut on your tires, do you need to have your
>tires rebalanced??
>
>John Mas
>
>
>E-Mail Address     ::     MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM
>

Well, it depends on what kind of locking lugnuts you have.  My previous
car had locking lugnuts that weighed about 2.5oz. more than the others. 
The locking lugnuts were factory equipment, and according to the factory
service manual, after tire balancing the technician/mechanic was
supposed to put a 1/2 oz. counterweight on the rim opposite the locking
nut.  I always had vibration problems with those stupid lugnuts since no
one ever did the service correctly. I eventually got rid of the locking
lugnuts and replaced them with the standard lugnuts.  Unfortunately, I
found out about the counterweighting technique 6 months after I got rid
of the locking nuts. :-(

My present car, a Saturn SC, has locking lugnuts that I bought at the
dealer and are made specifically for the Saturn.  They have been made to
be exactly the same weight as the non-locking lugnuts (said so on the
package and I verified it myself).  I haven't had any vibration problems
with the tires at all (due to the nuts) in 12,000 of ownership.  I did
have some other vibration problems, but it was due to a poor job of tire
balancing.

Tom

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103155
From: alter@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Eric Alter)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <C5xtp7.MtB@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr22.192652.3032@virginia.edu> jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blade Runner") writes:
|> >I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
|> >that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
|> >will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
|> >way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
|> >100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
|> >Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
|> >there hear anything about it recently?
|> 
|> 
|> If everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but "re-
|> skinning" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications.
|> And the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job
|> of it.  
|> 
|> The "new" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car.
|> 
|> Jeff
|> 
|> 
|> 


What???  I heard there was a new engine slated for the mustang...something
like 280hp  (ok, it was from one of their other lines...)...

-- 

Eric Alter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103156
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: SOME TAURUS MISC. MAINT.

-> 4) Are there any fairly cheap (<$150 or so) ways to increase the
-> performance on this car? Unfortunately, a Taurus is not exactly a
-> muscle car, so I'm looking for ways to increase the performance.

There is a company in Florida that sells computer chips that supposedly
get a few HP and Torque out of the 3.0. Don't have the address, but saw
the ad in Hot Rod and some other car magazines. Also, you could open up
the exhaust (get an exhaust with a larger i.d.)

Hope this helps. If you find anything else, let me know. I've got a 1990
Taurus L.

George Howell
george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org
                                 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103157
From: qwerty@tunisia.ssc.gov (Kris Schludermann)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

In article <1993Apr23.010311.23110@ra.oc.com>, lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) writes:
|> 
|> Shifting without the clutch on a transmission with syncros can and will cause
|> transmission damage, the only question being how long it  takesto grenade
|> something (for the trans in my 87  Pulsar SE, it was  about 3-5k miles, but
|> it had a weak  tranny in the first place).

Please explain the why of this. I have over 200k miles usage of clutchless
shift and no problems.

krispy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103158
From: andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?


	"The Villager-Quest seem like the best of the Cravan/Voyager
	copies to come along since the Mazda MPV."

I'll agree about villager but not MPV -- it's so small that I'd class
it as a SUV with an extra seat shoehorned in.  To get any rear cargo
space, you shove the back seat up against the middle seat, eliminating
*all* leg room.

Back to the Villager ...

	"Only the price is controversial."

And the use of attack belts instead of 3-point belts.  That killed it
for me.

  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103159
From: seove@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (ERIC OVERTON)
Subject: Shifting without clutch while...

Is it ok to take the car out of gear without using the clutch
(while the car is turned off)?

Thanks in advance.

Please reply by mail.

Eric

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103160
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?

In article <10262@ceylon.gte.com>, hhd0@harvey.gte.com (Horace Dediu) writes:
|> In article <nataraja.735341980@opal12>, nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan) writes:
|> |> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
|> |> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
|> |> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).
|> |> 
|> |> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
|> |> something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
|> |> diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
|> |> install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
|> |> of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
|> |> different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
|> |> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
|> |> gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...

|> This really bugs me.  The emissions of diesels are the cleanest of any vechicle,
|> but they are considered so polluting that they are banned in passenger cars
|> in California.  What a bunch of crap.  Diesel is the fuel of choice for 
|> enviromental benefit in Europe while here it's illegal for the same reason.
|> 
|> The particulates are nothing but carbon.  They are just an annoyance at worst.
|> Nothing beats the diesel cycle for efficiency and emissions, torque or engine
|> durability.  It's also cheaper.

Diesels fall into the same emissions mythology as alcohol fuels.  The main reason
they are considered "cleaner" is because they are better at the emissions we
actually measure and regulate.  But they also contribute additional emissions
which have long been determined to be as harmful, but no suitable control or
limits have been defined.  

Current evidence is pointing to most visible smog actually being diesel emissions
and suspended particles and less of a photo-chemical reaction.  Diesel particulates
are now becoming a major concern in decreased lung capacity.  And alcohols emit
signifcantly more aldehydes (a known carcinigen) than gasoline.  The evidence
is mounting that while we have been beating the gasoline engine to death, we may
have been ignoring the effects of the alternatives.

And anyone who thinks diesels are so great, should go and spend a few hours in
rush hour traffic in some cities in Europe.  There the stench of the diesels is
awful and it can even burn the eyes.  

Diesels being clean is only relative to our current standards. 

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103161
From: dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Gauge)
Subject: Choice of gauges

If you had free reign to design your own instrument cluster, which
gauges would you choose to have beyond the basic set?

I consider the basic set to be:

	- tach

	- coolant temp (or cylinder head temp for air-cooled engines)
	- oil pressure
	- amps

	- speedo
	- fuel

others that are nice to have:

	- volts (maybe this should be in the basic set)
	- vacuum/boost

I can think of a few others, but what are your ideas and why?

-Dave

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103162
From: dreitman@oregon.uoregon.edu (Daniel R. Reitman, Attorney to Be)
Subject: Re: legal car buying problems

In article <1993Apr20.143930.13144@chpc.org>,
 rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes...
>In article <9285.27317@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM>
> bob@runway.swdc.stratus.com (Bob Hutson) writes:
>>After agreeing to terms I signed the contract and drove home in my new
>>car.  Later that same night I noticed that the terms in the were
>>different from the terms I had agreed to.  (I made the stupid mistake
>>of not checking everything on the contract).  This all happened last
>>Saturday.

>>I have heard that there is a "cooling-off" law allowing me three days
>>to reconsider the contract.  Is this true?  Can anyone point me to the
>>law?  The transaction happened at the dealership, if it matters.

>This cooling off period applies only in certain situations - lik ewhen
>you are solicited at home.  I also think the cooling off period ends
>if you actually accept the merchandise.

>If this were not the case, any car buyer would have the right to return
>a slightly used, highly devalued, car 2 days after buying it.  Yeah - 
>that's the trick - if I want to buy a new car, I'd have a firend buy 
>& return one, then go in and negotiate a better deal on a pre-owned
>used car.

FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY

On the other hand, if it can be proven, it's possible the changed 
terms could be thrown out.  The question will be whether the 
agreement contains a merger clause.  See UCC @ 2-202 (parol 
evidence).  If we're talking about warranties, then, of course, 
UCC @ 2-316 should be looked at.

But we have so little information that none of us can say anything 
conclusive.

						Daniel Reitman

"The Uniform Commercial Code protects the innocent purchaser, but it is not a 
shield for the sly conniver, the blindly naive, or the hopelessly gullible."
Atlas Auto Rental Corp. v. Weisberg, 54 Misc. 2d 168, 172, 281 N.Y.S.2d 400, 
405 (N.Y. City Civ. Ct. 1967).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103163
From: joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1r8ufk$fr7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. 
Spencer) writes:
>
>In a previous article, finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil () says:
>
>>In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
>>eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>>>
>>>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>eliot
>>
>>Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
>>really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
>>"underscore 4")?
>
>i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
>(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)
>DREW

I've always heard them referred to "horizontally opposed"...

Joe

-- 
Joseph Staudt, Telxon Corp. | joes@telxon.com
P.O. Box 5582               | "Usenet is like Tetris for people who still
Akron, OH  44334-0582       |  remember how to read."
(216) 867-3700 x3522        |           -- J. Heller

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103164
From: frankb@sad.hp.com (Frank Ball)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

& >I'm not familiar with the trannies used in Winston Cup, but in the trans-am
& >cars I've played with the  transmissions were the racing variety, with
& >dog clutches instead of sychros.  In a transmission with dog clutches, the
& >gears are always  engaged with each other and moving the dog clutches
& >engages the gears to the shafts.  Motorcycle transmissions are the same way.
& >Shifting without the clutch on a transmission with syncros can and will cause
& >transmission damage, the only question being how long it  takesto grenade
& >something (for the trans in my 87  Pulsar SE, it was  about 3-5k miles, but
& >it had a weak  tranny in the first place).
& 
& just out of curiosity, how is this "dog clutch" any different from a synchro
& transmission.  What you described SOUNDS the same to me.  In fact, what little
& i've studied on trannies, the instructor referred to the synchros as "dogs"
& and said they were synonymous.  The gears are always meshed in a synchronized
& gearbox, and you slip the synchro gears back and forth by shifting. Or at least,
& that is what i was taught.  Explain, por favour?

Motorcycle transmissions don't have synchros.  The engagment dogs are very
corse and sloppy.  There are maybe 6-10 teeth (dogs) on the side of the
gears that engage the next gear over as the forks slide the gears back
and forth.  To shift:  start to apply pressure at the same time the
clutch is pulled (the clutch is a hand lever) and shift quickly.  If 
you try a slow lazy shift it will grind, you just have to pop it into
the next gear before it has a chance to grind.  There isn't a neutral
between gears (obviously there is, but you can't select it with the
shifter) so double clutching is not a possibility.  "speed shifting"
(which is what I have always heard "clutchless shifting" called) works
pretty well for upshifts with some practice, but I usually use the
clutch-especially for the lower gears.

I think auto (as in automobile) trannys are similar, except that the
engagment dogs are very fine, with no slop.  And the addition of
syncho rings.  The gear teeth are always engaged in auto transmissions
that are synchronized, but may not be in non-synchro gears (reverse
and sometimes first).  

--
Frank Ball   1UR-M          frankb@sad.hp.com    (707) 794-4168 work,
Hewlett Packard             (707) 794-3844 fax,  (707) 538-3693 home
1212 Valley House Drive     IT175, XT350, Seca 750, '62 F-100, PL510
Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999  KC6WUG, LAW, AMA, Dod #7566, I'm the NRA.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103165
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

In article <1r8uckINNcmf@gap.caltech.edu> wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su) writes:


> Path: eclipse!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!wen-king
> From: wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su)
> Newsgroups: rec.autos
> Date: 23 Apr 1993 14:27:32 GMT
> Organization: California Institute of Technology
> Lines: 9
> References: <1r72ejINNk2j@gap.caltech.edu> <1r7cr2INNvar@sumax.seattleu.edu>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: neptune.cs.caltech.edu
> Keywords: Mercury, Villager, minivan, van, cars, Jittlov
> 
> In article <1r7cr2INNvar@sumax.seattleu.edu> smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris) writes:
> >The Villager-Quest seem like the best of the Cravan/Voyager copies to
> <come along since the Mazda MPV.  The NISSAN MAXIMA engine paired with
> >the MAXIMA 4 speed Auto Trans should be an excellent drive train, and
> <the rest of the vehicle seems well engineered.  Only the price is
> >controversial.
> 
> Hmm.  The last time I checked, Villager/Quest does not have a Maxima
> engine, and is very much under powered for its weight.
 
Same engine, different state of tune (less hp and maybe more torque). My
friend at work regularly takes 6 people in his and it seems to haul around
just fine.

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103166
From: davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance ...

I got numerous complaints about Geico, and several helpful pointers to
other (good) insurance companies.  I have decided to go with the Erie
Insurance Exchange, which seems to combine high ratings from the net
and Consumer Reports with low rates (at least for me).  Thanks for all
the responses.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103167
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?


I have tested both vehicles (identically
equipped), both for week-long periods.
Curiously (and consider these are test
vehicles), I found the Mercury higher
in build quality than the Nissan.

Either choice is good, but beware that
I did not experience reasonable mileage
with the V6.  Average city driving was
<15mpg, with about 21 avg. on the highway.

Both were optioned to the hilt (the Nissan
had leather!).  The Villager was in the
$24K range and the Nissan was over $26K.

bob


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103168
From: gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)   

>>Dont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake>
>>cars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the j>udgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one.  

>just to satiate my curiosity, why would this make you the stupid one?  It seems
>to me, everybody SHOULD be aware enough of what is going on.  You do not need

I couldnt agree more.  That is how it SHOULD work. People should also ALWAYS see motorcycles too.

I CONSTANTLY scan behind me (I have one of those wink mirrors) and two outside mirrors.  I actually spend just as much time checking my six (cops you know).

I still get caught off guard every now and then. 


Maybe I didnt word it right the first time.  What I was trying to say was that if you plan to blow by somebody at a very HIGH speed differential and you assume you are safe because the guy sees you, you are stupid (of course, it depends on the circumstances).  I have had some VERY scary instances when I assumed this and I dont think all of the fault was the other guy (now if he was going 25 in a 55 thats a whole different story)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103169
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: Dumb options list


In a previous article, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) says:

>The idea here is to list pointless options. You know, stuff you
>(can) get on a car that has no earthly use?

1) a fitting that allows you to generate household current with
the engine running, and plug ins in the trunk, engine compartment
and cabin.

Feel free to add on...

Regards, Charles
x
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

:-)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103170
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)


In a previous article, gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) says:

>>>Dont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake>
>>>cars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the j>udgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one.  
>
>>just to satiate my curiosity, why would this make you the stupid one?  It seems
>>to me, everybody SHOULD be aware enough of what is going on.  You do not need
>
>I couldnt agree more.  That is how it SHOULD work. People should also ALWAYS see motorcycles too.
>
>I CONSTANTLY scan behind me (I have one of those wink mirrors) and two outside mirrors.  I actually spend just as much time checking my six (cops you know).
>
>I still get caught off guard every now and then. 
>
>
>Maybe I didnt word it right the first time.  What I was trying to say was that if you plan to blow by somebody at a very HIGH speed differential and you assume you are safe because the guy sees you, you are stupid (of course, it depends on the circumstances).  I have had some VERY scary instances when I assumed this and I dont think all of the fault was the other guy (now if he was going 25 in a 55 thats a whole different story)

ok.  I can agree to this, because, as we have both proved, what is ideally
SUPPOSED to happen, isn't always.  And even though i'm rearely the one doing
the passing, i don't see where it makes you stupid, but i agree, that if you 
think you are SAFE, because the other guy is SUPPOSED to have been paying 
attention, then yes, you are just as dumb as the other(maybe dumber?)
hasta
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103171
From: laszlo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Tyson F Nuss)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

From article <1pq6i2$a1f@news.ysu.edu>, by ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker):
> 
> Cup holders (driving is an importantant enough undertaking)
> Ashtrays (smokers seem to think it's just fine to use the road)

	Oh, sure -- sorry, but the absence of a cupholder is not gonna
discourage anyone from eating/drinking in the car;  let's just put one
in anyway, so at least they don't have the further distraction of trying
not to spill it.
	Furthermore, you are obviously not a smoker; on a cold day, it
takes a certain skill to toss a butt out of a cracked window without having
it wind-deflect into the back seat.  Also, just 'cause some smokers use
the window, doesn't mean all of us do.
	This reminds me of *one* pleasant feature in the otherwise
ergonomically-hellish interior of the Alfa Romeo Milano:  you could ash
your cigarette without even removing your hand from the wheel; the 'tray
was *right*there*.

> Fake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.
> Any gold trim.

	These, I will agree, are abominations, right along with the fake
continental spare-tire kit -- it's sad watching those little old ladies 
try to load their groceries into the trunk with that huge tire-medallion
in the way.
	Most pitiful fake convertible top: on a "Cadillac" Cimarron, with
all the chrome door trim still visible -- not fooling *anyone*.
Of course, there was that Hyundai Excel I once saw...

%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%
___    A      laszlo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
| |   {*}     Redhead Afficionado Extraordinaire   *and*
| |  __V__    Little Canadia's Minister of Fine Tobaccos
|_|o_|%%%|0_  Cigaret brands sampled: 55 import/luxury, 17 handrolling
   |       |
   |       |  These opinions are not necessarily mine (or mine, either).
   |_______| -----> Can anyone bum me a .sig?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103172
From: laszlo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Tyson F Nuss)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all tim

> In article <1993Mar29.161044.1@uncavx.unca.edu>, bwillard@uncavx.unca.edu
> wrote:
>> 
>> 8. Saab 900 - ignition is on floor!?!

	Actually, this started as a great idea.  Before steering-column
locks became popular, Saab installed a *gearshift* lock -- put the car
in reverse, remove the key, and the car *stays* in reverse!
	Also, suppose you get into your car, and a thug comes up and
demands your keys at gunpoint.  You hand them over, he gets in, and
HAS NO IDEA WHERE TO PUT THE KEY!  At this, he will run away (or perhaps
shoot you anyway  %-}).  I heard this actually happened somewhere...
	Btw, I hear that the Saab 900's new successor will have the
ignition on the console, between the seats, where it belongs.

%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%
___    A      laszlo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
| |   {*}     Redhead Afficionado Extraordinaire   *and*
| |  __V__    Little Canadia's Minister of Fine Tobaccos
|_|o_|%%%|0_  Cigaret brands sampled: 55 import/luxury, 17 handrolling
   |       |
   |       |  These opinions are not necessarily mine (or mine, either).
   |_______| -----> Can anyone bum me a .sig?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103173
From: infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew  Infante)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.163411.27443@dsd.es.com> bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.160922.8797@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>|> 
>|> In article <1993Apr15.135514.29579@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
>|> (ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes:
>|> 
>|> >You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in
>|> >place of the bolt.  I have one on both of my cars.  There have been no
>|> >leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars).
>|> 
>|> Yes, but then someone would have no problem draining your oil in a parking lot.
>|> 
>|> all they have to do is reach underneath, turn a valve, and forget the trip 
>|> home.
>|> But there is less likelyhood they have a wrench with them.
>|> 
>|> I personally recommend, installing a 'special' locking drain plug to keep
>|> vandals away. :---)
>|> 
>|> steve
>
>I was worried about someone stealing my oil once also. I finally 
>decided to just have my drain plug welded shut. It works great !
>I figure that when I add three or four quarts when the oil light
>comes on every month or so that it's just as good or better than
>the old wives tale of changing the oil AND filter every 3000 miles.
>Works for me, I must say. 


Either I've just fallen for this, or you guys
are _really_ paranoid!

You're actually worried about somebody stealing 
your oil?

C'mon, you think a vandal'll do that?!

That's absolutely ridiculous!

Besides, how hard is it to get under the car to 
change the oil?

I can say from experience on the cars that I've driven and
changed the oil on, my Mazda 323 is pretty much a pain, but
once you've done it once, you don't forget how, and it
gets easier.

I can't imagine any other cars are much worse than mine.

-- 
Andy Infante  | You can listen to what everybody says, but the fact remains   |
'71 BMW R60/5 | that you've got to get out there and do the thing yourself.   | 
DoD #2426     |                             -- Joan Sutherland                | 
==============| My opinions, dammit, have nothing to do with anyone else!!!   | 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103174
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: FOR SALE: '91 Toyota Camry $9500

1991 Toyota Camry for sale:
    Deluxe package
    5 speed
    grey
    power windows
    power door locks
    AM/FM cassette
    power steering
    power brakes
    70K highway miles
    Excellent condition

    $9500                             Rob Fusi
                                      rwf2@lehigh.edu
    (609) 397-2147 after 7pm          E-mail me for more info...
    (914) 335-6984 day (until 5)
    Ask for Bob Fusi

                                    
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103175
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <buck.735568034@granite> buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck) writes:
>(unless you live in an area that gets frequent damaging hail storms)

	Nahhh, only about once a week March through May...  And sometimes
in the fall. :-)




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103176
From: pantera@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (doddek david j)
Subject: Re: Slick 50, any good?

mad9a@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Michael A. Davis) writes:


>     Chances are that this has been discussed to death already, and
>if so could someone who has kept the discussion mail me or direct me 
>to an archive site. Basically,
>I am just wondering if Slick 50 really does all it says that it does.
>And also, is there any data to support the claim.  Thanks for any info.

>Mike Davis

I don't have any written data but I know what I have experienced.  I use  
S-50 in everything including my lawnmowers.  In my car it smoothed the idle
and reduced the operating temp by 5 degrees.  I havent used it long enough 
to test for wear, but some people I know have.   
 A farmer that lives near by used to have to overhaul his big deisel tractors
at least every other year if not every year.  Since he has been using S-50
he has went 5 years without an overhaul.

Also a friend at a machine shop has in the past rebuilt engines with 200K
miles on them because the coustomer thought it was time.  These coustomers
had ran S-50 since almost new.  It was found when measuring the internals
of the engine that they showed only about the amount of wear that would be
expected of 30K miles not 200K.

In my opinion it works.
______________________________________________________________________________
Beware! The cat is on the prowel     | Disclamer: Hey I'm a student,
A 1974 Cat hungry as hell.           | I don't need one.
detomaso Pantera EFI twin turbo	     |              David J. Doddek
With liscence to fly  "IT FLIES"     | UofI pantera@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
______________________________________________________________________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103177
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr23.144326.9535@ctp.com> bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas) writes:
>In article <1r1d62$d6s@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:
>>rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
>>>How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
>>>agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?
>>
>>Hear, hear!  Thanks, Robbie.
>>
>>You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as
>>George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,
>>who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.
>>
>>
>>On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers
>>for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be.
>>Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do
>>with people of all ages.
>
>Well, this isn't the right group for this, but I have to say that I don't
>think violence is any more socially acceptable now, by any means.  How
>can you say that when we used to have of pistol-toting gunslingers as 
>heros, or even gangland thugs being considered romantic.  Do you think
>our great grandparent got yelled at by their parents for playing cowboys
>and indians?  I don't think so.  That behavior was somewhat encouraged
>back then, in fact.
>I think the only difference between now and then is that nowadays, when
>some teenager kills another one in a classroom in California, we here 
>about it in MA the same day.  Back in the old days, they'd never hear 
>about something like that, period. 

Yeah, People act really shocked about violence, as though it were new
to our species...

What about the holocaust? The crusades? The Salem witch trials? The
religious persecutions of the middle-ages? 

What about violent acts carried out in the name of religion all over
the world? What about the early Christians put to death by the Romans?
The Jews persecuted by Christians?

There are a lot more humans today than there have ever been. I do not
know the stats, but there are far more people on the planet than there
were 2 or 3 hundred years ago! The per capita acts of violence are
probably not significantly different than they were a hundred or a
thousand years ago!

There is nothing new about violence.

rf

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103178
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <C5wpHp.5KL@megatest.com> alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung) writes:
>V8's, V10's, and V12's.....man...can you imagine doing
>a valve adjustment on one that has multiple non-hydraulic
>valves in each cylinder??!!
>
>aaron

I was at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum the other day and one of
their VERY early winners was 4 valves per cylinder (and either front
wheel drive or all wheel drive, I think front wheel drive) and that
was in 1914!

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103179
From: root@convex.com (Superuser)
Subject: Re: VAL-1 vs. BEL966STi (was Re: Best Radar Detector)

In article <brian-230493093710@hotspare.arc.nasa.gov> brian@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Brian Donnell) writes:
>In article <1993Apr22.204921.12644@convex.com>, tobias@convex.com (Allen
>Tobias) wrote:
>> 
>> I live in the backyard of the folks who make the Stalker radar system. The
>> Valentine 1 has saved me many, many, many times from the stealth revenue
>> enhancement traps of the local area. I have had all the major brand detectors,
>> and, IMHO, nothing else even comes close to the V1!
>> 
>
>I hadn't heard of the Valentine-1 before. Car&Driver and other auto
>magazines
>recommend BEL detectors.  I was considering their latest - the 966STi -
>which picks up Super Wideband Ka and Laser as well.  It also avoids 
>radar detector detectors (although I really don't care about this since I
>doubt I'll be driving in Virginia anytime soon - or have any other states
>also made detectors iilegal?)
>
>How does the Valentine-1 compare with the BEL products?
>
>Brian Donnell

No comparison. The BEL is just a hooped up wideband Escort like detector.
No directional indicators, no Bogey counter, no radar signature analysis, no
remote display option, not as sensitive, not as well built. 
Had it, sent it back!

AT

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103180
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Saturn Extended Warranty

In article <1r7n42INNie1@shelley.u.washington.edu> gaia@carson.u.washington.edu (I/We are Gaia) writes:
>In article <1r6bqgINN4ei@roundup.crhc.uiuc.edu> vivek@crhc.uiuc.edu (Vivek Chickermane) writes:
>>ADVICE on SATURN EXTENDED WARRANTY
>>-----------------------------------
>>
>>  I placed an order for a Saturn SL2 and it is expected next week. The
>>Saturn retailer gave me some pamphlets about the extended warranty plan
>>and I have been thinking about it. Being a first time new car buyer, I am
>>seeking advice from veterans esp. those who have bought Saturns lately.
>>FYI, I have listed some of the features of the Saturn extended warranty plan.
>>The car comes with a 3 years/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty.
>>
>>Plan I
>>-------
>>Extended Powertrain Coverage
>>
>>Covers the cost of repairs to
>>  * Engine
>>  * Transaxle
>>  * Front wheel drive
>>* 24 hour roadside assistance program
>>
>>Coverage Term (years/miles)
>>
>>Deductible     5/60,000     6/75,000     6/100,000
>>----------     --------     --------     ---------
>>$50            $375          $550         $725
>>

i say extended warranties are a ripoff, high-profit item for dealers.
but what i really want to point out here is that you are not buying
5/60k, 6/75k, 6/100k.  you get 3yr/36k *free*.  so what you are buying is
2/24k, 3/39k, 3/64k.  keep that in mind when you look at the cost vs. coverage.
another point is that many car companies routinely fix car problems that are
out of warranty...why?  design/manufacturing defects that the company owns up
to, keeping customer happy, etc.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103181
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <93111.12475032HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>, John Foster <32HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:

|> I find this method much better myself, too, although I do really
|> hate it when the bolt finally comes loose and the wrench and my
|> hand both come crashing into my face.  After coming to, which is
|> about 15 minutes later, I change my clothes (because by this time
|> all the oil has drained *on* me), and ice my entire face and suck
|> down about 20 Tylenol to ease the pain.  Later in the day I then
|> proceed with refilling the engine oil.
|> 
|> It's just crazy how I try and change the oil on my cars in one
|> weekend---I go through about 3 bottles of Tylenol and 2 bags of ice.

Oh, that's not so bad. Every time I try to change the oil, I forget to
shut off the engine first. The hot oil comes out and scalds me, blinds
me, then the engine starts to overheat, and while I'm screaming in agony
and trying to crawl out from under the car, I grab the red hot exhaust
pipe and get third degree burns on my hands. My screams intensify as I
finally emerge from under the car, and I struggle to my feet in front of
the car, whereupon the radiator hose ruptures and sprays me with super
heated coolant. Then the engine seizes, but not before the cylinder head
explodes, piercing my flesh with fragments of red hot iron.

This happens every time. I'm starting to think I should pay the mechanic
$25 instead paying the hospital $250,000 and the dealer $25,000 for a new
car. This gets costly when you change the oil every 3000 miles.

- Toadface

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103182
From: davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott)
Subject: Re: Info/Opinions Wanted on Cars In this Article

In article <C5st37.HF3@ns1.nodak.edu> bell@plains.NoDak.edu (Robert Bell) writes:
>In article <1993Apr13.182100.26650@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>>In article <49071@fibercom.COM> rrg@rtp.fibercom.com (Rhonda Gaines) writes:
>>>
>>>I'm in the market for a new car.  Currently I own a '90 Mazda MX-6 DX
>>>which has served me just fine.  However, I'd like to get
>>>a 4-door car since I don't relish the thought of moving a carseat
>>>around in a 2-door car.  My criteria are: 4-door, a/c, am/fm cassette,
>>>quick acceleration, cruise control, decent rear seat legroom (my
>>>husband is a 6-footer).  It must also be under $20k
>>>preferably closer to the 11-15k range (which will probably rule out
>>>the Accord).  The '93 cars that have caught my eye are: Toyota Corolla, 
>>>Toyata Camry, Mazda 626, Pontiac Grand Am, Pontiac Grand Prix, 
>>>Honda Accord, (and Civic if it's roomy enough and still comes in a 
>>>4-door model), Hyundai Sonata, and maybe even a small Oldsmobile, 
>>>although not the Achieva.  All opinions, benchmarks,
>>>recommendations, etc. are welcome.

The Civic does still come in a 4 door model.  My wife and I looked
quite seriously at the 626, Prizm (Corolla), and Civic, as well as
some other cars.  Our impressions: all three seemed well built and had
the features we wanted - these are similar to the features you want
except for cruise control, and we want a manual transmission and are
considering anti-lock brakes.  I also hate automatic seatbelts and we
both think having an airbag is a plus.  In general, comfort and
performance were both significant.

Some specific +'s and -'s are listed below.

Mazda 626
 + very comfortable and roomy
 + can theoretically get ABS on DX model, though in practice this is
   hard to find
 + base price for base model includes numerous little things like:
   tach, variable speed wipers, rear defroster, 60/40 split folding rear seat
 - more expensive than many other cars listed below

Honda Civic
 + DX gets significantly better mileage than other cars listed here
 + comfortable front seat
 + adjustable seat belt mounting
 - no ABS without EX model (includes $1000's of other things like a sunroof)

Geo Prizm/Toyota Corolla
 - seats not very comfortable to us (your mileage may vary)
 + adjustable seat belt mounting
 + can get ABS without lots of other extras

Saturn
 + SL2 was quite comfortable, though SL1 less so
 - motorized attack belts

Dodge Spirit
   no real outstanding +'s, but seemed generally ok
 - rear seat does not fold down

Chevy Corsica
 + comes with ABS standard
 - lower "would you buy that car again" and safety ratings in
   Consumer Reports (than first 3 cars above)
 - suspension didn't feel as stiff as the others (this would be a +
   for some)

The Honda Accord and Toyota Camry were both more expensive than the
626, and in our minds, not significantly better.

We probably gave disproportionately low consideration to the "big 3",
due (a) to my wife's family's general dislike of Chrysler products,
(b) some unimpressive GM products owned by my parents and a housemate
of mine (c) the Taurus comes with automatic transmission, I find the
seat of the Tempo very uncomfortable, and the escort has attack belts
and no air bag.

We'll probably end up with a 626 - I saw a 626 DX with A/C and
cassette advertised for just under $12800 (Washington Post, April 14,
I think), and my local dealer says they can match that price.  I will
probably get the 626 (maybe tomorrow).  The main question in my mind
is whether or not I will have to do a "factory order" or "preference
order" to get one with ABS, and whether or not the dealership will
run the price up a lot if I do so.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103183
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Saturn Extended Warranty

In article <93113.123459U59985@uicvm.uic.edu> <U59985@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>I agree with Gaia. Even though the Saturn has proved to be a very reliable car
>so far, a little money spent now is worth the peace of mind.

this is an interesting point.  some people are not really buying the coverage,
they are buying 'peace of mind', marketing folks love selling that.  i suggest
that people *choose* to not engage their minds in peaceless worry rather than
buying that 'peace of mind'.
>
>In my opinion, getting the PowerTrain warranty is enough. In my case, that's be
>cause; anything that needed repairing in the interior (sunroof, windows, doors,
> etc.) I could do myself. I just didn't want to mess with the engine and such.

you'd be surprised how much the little knick-knack stuff can cost?  what if 
your a/c goes out?  steering rack??  don't get me wrong...i'm against all
extended warranties...they are a ripoff.
>
>Plus I think the extra 3 years of 24-hour RoadSide Assistance must be worthe so
>meting. I opted for the 5 year plan for $375.
extra 3 yrs?  you realize the first 3yr/36k is free warranty that comes with 
the car.
>
>Thomas
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103184
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

In article <1r0vk6INNaft@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM writes:
>>I too was puzzled by this obvious untruth. What I think is going on is that
>>Nissan claims that the Altima is "the best selling new car namelplate in
>>the US" (I think I have this near verbatim). Lee Iaccoca's statistics
>>dept. would have been proud of that sentence.
>
>Note that the Corolla/Prism are also new designs... but hey are not new 
>"nameplates."  I guess Nissan doesn't even sell as many Altimas as
>Toyota does Corollas, or there would be no "nameplate" qualifier.

But waiiiiiit, isn't Nissan officially registering the car as far as
government paperwork goes, Nissan Stanza Altima, to avoid costly and
lengthy paperwork? I read this on the net a while ago, and someone
actually may have said there's a little Stanza logo on the Altima
somewhere.

You *can* have it both ways :-)

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103185
From: c23reg@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Ron Gaskins)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all tim


In article <1993Apr8.233443.22590@exu.ericsson.se>, exulox@exu.ericsson.se (Lasse Ohlsson, T/TDT, 1129) writes:
> In article 23250@cas.org, sdm24@cas.org () writes:
> >IMHO, the dumbest thing we *ever* did in copying the Japanese was moving the
> >dimmer switch from the floor to the lever controlling the turn signal/cruise
 
The federal government has mandated that all passenger cars by model year
'95 return to the floor mounted dimmer switch.

A study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has
found that an unacceptable percentage of after dusk collisions were the
direct result of unskilled drivers getting their left foot stuck in the
steering wheel :-)

-- 
Ron Gaskins                                 c23reg@koptsw21.delcoelect.com
Automotive Electronic Systems               Delco Electronics
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904  
-- 
Ron Gaskins                                 c23reg@koptsw21.delcoelect.com
Automotive Electronic Systems               Delco Electronics
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103186
From: c23tvr@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Thomas Redmond)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


In article <1r1d62$d6s@agate.berkeley.edu>, bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:
> rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
> >How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
> >agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?
> 
> Hear, hear!  Thanks, Robbie.
> 
> You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as
> George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,
> who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers
> for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be.
> Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do
> with people of all ages.

I didn't know George could drive a bulldozer!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103187
From: hovnania@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Paul Hovnanian)
Subject: Re: Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

>: In response to a post about SUV's, I got several unsolicited recommendations to
>: check out the Land Cruiser, despite its astronomical price.
>: The Toyota dealer told me it's a "cult car".
>: If a car is good enough to create a passionate and loyal following, there
>: must be something really extraordinary about it.
>: So, all you Land Crusher Cultists - here is your chance to convert me.
>: 
>: -- 
>: Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
>: IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020

Based on my experience with a '79 FJ40 ( the hard-top jeep-style model ) I 
would definitely give a new model consideration if I were in the market. The
older models are VERY well built. Unless Toyota lost its mind, I would
assume, until  proven otherwise, that the newer models have inherited some
if not all of the qualities of their ancestors.

Two major differences in the running gear (that I'm aware of) need study.
My '79 has a solid front axle housing whereas the newer models have
independant front suspension. The solid axle is theoretically stronger and
more reliable than the newer model, but only experience will tell. The
independant front suspension is, no doubt, a compromise made to satisfy
the typical user, who will never need a real utility vehicle. The second
difference is the type of transfer case used on the newer models. I'm
not sure, but I think Tioyota went to a full-time 4WD or all-wheel drive
system. The older Landcruisers have a "lock-up" type. Both have their
advantages and disadvantages.

	Paul Hovnanian	hovnania@atc.boeing.com
	[Std disclaimers apply]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103188
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important?

jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:

>In article <1r1jr9$m1v@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes:
>>I figure that 30mph collisions into brick walls aren't common enough
>>for me to spend that much extra money for protection, but there are
>>lots of low-speed collisions that do worry me.

>Get into an 30+ mph accident and you may reconsider. I've been in one
>and it is *really* scarey. My life is something I value more
>than a car's looks or handeling. Consider it insurance, it may not
>happen often but when it does, you'll sure be glad you got a safe car.

>Granted the tests aren't perfect but I'd much rather be in a car that
>did well in the test than a car that did horribly. 

You raise a valid point, but again it's a tradeoff -- how much money
do you want to spend for that kind of protection?  You could buy a
Volvo, Saab, or 'Benz and get really good crash protection (and other
luxuries) but you'll pay significantly more for it.  In my case it's
out of the question because *all* of those cars are beyond my budget.

Even in high-speed head-on collisions the most beneficial item you can
have is a good old 3-point seatbelt.  Nowadays, at least in the US,
you get an airbag if you get a 3-point belt so (presumably) you get an
added safety benefit there as well.  That's something I certainly look
for and which can be had in inexpensive cars.

My $.02, of course.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103189
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?

troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker) writes:
>There is no question that the Valentine-1 ($299) has good range but
>not significant enough to be 2 or 3 times as expensive as some of the
>others.

The big win with the V-1 is not its range but rather its
directionality and multiple-transmitter tracking (which you later
called a "gimmick" -- a conclusion I disagree with).  Since the
detector incorporates multiple receivers it's not surprising that it's
significantly more expensive.  While the added capabilities may not
help you, there is added value for those of us who live in areas where
there are a lot of false-alarms.

>Summary: Valentine-1 way too expensive and not a significantly better
>performer!

I certainly call it "interesting" but I'm another person who thinks
that the added value might be coming at too high a cost.  Very
adequate radar detectors are available for less than half the cost and
one of them has suited me rather well.  If I did more long-distance
travelling in areas I'm not familiar with I'd probably consider
getting the V-1 because it's additional information would be useful in
discriminating false alarms.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103190
From: ward@cs.uiuc.edu (Christ Ward)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

R1004@vmcms.csuohio.edu writes:

>In article <C5Lz30.Jus@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
>cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
> 
>>laszlo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Tyson F Nuss) writes:
>>
>>>From article <1pq6i2$a1f@news.ysu.edu>, by ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker):
>>>>
>>
>>>> Fake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.
>>>> Any gold trim.
>>
>>>	These, I will agree, are abominations, right along with the fake
>>>continental spare-tire kit -- it's sad watching those little old ladies
>>>try to load their groceries into the trunk with that huge tire-medallion
>>>in the way.
>>>	Most pitiful fake convertible top: on a "Cadillac" Cimarron, with
>>>all the chrome door trim still visible -- not fooling *anyone*.
>>>Of course, there was that Hyundai Excel I once saw...
>>
>>	I have seen a cutlass Supreme coupe (GM10) with a vinyl roof, ditto
>>a Taurus.  Shoot the owners, NOW, before it's too late.
>>
>    It gets better.  I've seen them on a 4-door escort, Chevy S-10
>Blazer, and even a Chevy astro mini-van.  A mini-van w/ a fake
>convertible top is not something you want to see just after eating!
> 

	And better yet..There's a chevette in town with wire crome wheels,
vinyl roof, tacky paint job and a continental spare (showing the wire
crome wheel within, of course)...I'm scared to look on the inside and have
only seen it rolling down the road...and I too was glad I hadn't just ate.



> 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Bob Martel               |  Lady luck must have been a wonderful girl
>bob2@cua3.csuohio.edu    |    -She's never been a friend of mine!
>R1004@vmcms.csuohio.edu  |                    The Alan Parsons Project
>                         |     The 3B1 lives!
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris T. Ward  DoD#0710   "Don't take life too seriously, you can never come
                           out of it alive."  -?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103191
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:


>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)


>eliot

	Are 180 degree V-6 "Flat-Six" engines???
-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103192
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:


>In a previous article, finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil () says:

>>In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
>>eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>>>
>>>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>eliot
>>
>>Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
>>really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
>>"underscore 4")?

>i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
>(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)
>DREW

	Then what is a "Flat-" engine???


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103193
From: CONRADIE@firga.sun.ac.za (Gerrit Conradie)
Subject: Re: Dealer cheated me with wrong odometer reading. Need help!

In article <1qvrnpINNnid@shelley.u.washington.edu> yongje@hardy.u.washington.edu (Yong Je Lim) writes:
>Subject: Dealer cheated me with wrong odometer reading. Need help!

>Here is a story.  I bought a car about two weeks ago.  I finally can
>get hold of the previous owner of the car and got all maintanence
>history of the car.  In between '91 and '92, the instrument pannel 
>of the car has been replaced and the odometer also has been reset
>to zero.  Therefore, the true meter reading is the reading before
>replacement plus current mileage.  That shows 35000 mile difference
>comparing to the mileage on the odometer disclosure from.  The 
>dealer never told me anything about that important story.
>
>I hope that I can return the car with full refund.  Do u think this
>is possible?  Does anyone have similar experiences?  Any comments
>will be appreciated.  Thanks.

Something that happened in South AFrica about a year ago: A dealer sold a 
Mercedes with an odometer reading of 150K kilometers to a lady. Turned out 
that the actual reading should have been 160K. Court case followed because
lady said she wouldn't have bought a car with that much km's. Dealer found 
quilty, fined and had to take back the car.

I think you have a case if you can get a sworn statement from the previous
owner. Take the car back to the dealer and threaten him or something.

- gerrit

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103194
From: CONRADIE@firga.sun.ac.za (Gerrit Conradie)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important? 

In article <1993Apr20.163527.12773@bnr.ca> tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes:
>Subject: Is car saftey important? 
>   I was recently thumbing through the 1993 Lemon-Aid New
>Car Guide.  What I found was a car would be given a 'Recommended'
>under the picture while a few sentences later noting how a
>driver and passenger were virtually guaranteed to be killed
>in a front end collision.  The most highly recommended small
>car (The Civic) has the worst crash rating of all of the small
>cars listed.  There were many such cases of 'great' vehicles
>where you wouldn't survive an accident.  Is it only me, or is
>safety not one of the most important factors when buying a car?
>

Definitely!

Safety is an important criterium for me when buying a car. I won't buy a 
small car like a Civic or whatever.

Great = Safety + Handling + Speed  -  for me

Seems to me that you would be more "dead" in a small car than a large car 
after an accident.

- gerrit


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103195
From: chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester)
Subject: "Production Hold" on '93 Firebird/Camaro w/ 6-Speed

After a tip from Gary Crum (crum@fcom.cc.utah.edu) I got on the Phone
with "Pontiac Systems" or "Pontaic Customer Service" or whatever, and
inquired about a rumoured Production Hold on the Formula Firebird and
Trans Am.  BTW, Talking with the dealer I bought the car from got me
nowhere.  After being routed to a "Firebird Specialist", I was able
to confirm that this is in fact the case.

At first, there was some problem with the 3:23 performance axle ratio.
She wouldn't go into any details, so I don't know if there were some
shipped that had problems, or if production was held up because they
simply didn't have the proper parts from the supplier.  As I say, she
was pretty vague on that, so if anyone else knows anything about this,
feel free to respond.  Supposedly, this problem is now solved.

Second, there is a definate shortage of parts that is somehow related
to the six-speed Manual transmission.  So as of this posting, there is
a production hold on these cars.  She claimed part of the delay was
not wanting to use inferior quality parts for the car, and therefore
having to wait for the right high quality parts...  I'm not positive
that this applies to the Camaro as well, but I'm guessing it would.

Can anyone else shed some light on this?

Chris S.
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Silvester      | "Any man capable of getting himself elected President
chriss@sam.amgen.com |  should by no means be allowed to do the job"
chriss@netcom.com    |   - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103196
From: kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....
-- 
___________________________________________________________________ ____/|
John Kissane                           | Motorola Ireland Ltd.,   | \'o.O'
UUCP    : ..uunet!motcid!glas!kissanej | Mahon Industrial Estate, | =() ()=
Internet: kissanej@glas.rtsg.mot.com   | Blackrock, Cork, Ireland |    U

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103197
From: issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti

kchong@mothra.nts.uci.edu (Keith Chong) writes:

>In article <1993Apr23.105438.3245@msus1.msus.edu> w00026@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
>>First off, the correct spelling of Nissan's luxury automobile division
>>is "Infiniti" not "Infinity."  I would also like to clear up the question
>>of what kind of engines power Lexus and Infiniti automobiles, since a
>>person had remarked in earlier posts that most Lexus and Infiniti models
>>had V6 engines, while at the same time saying that several of each
>>manufacturer used V8 engines.
>>
>>Lexus:
>>  LS400- V8
>>  GS300- V6
>>  ES300- V6
>>  SC400- V8
>>  SC300- V6

>The GS300 and SC300 have an inline 6.

>>
>>Infiniti:
>>  Q45- V8
>>  J30- V6
>>  G20- inline 4 (I must admit that I cannot remeber for sure here)

>Inline 4 is correct.

>>
>>I hope this helps.
>>
>>-BSB

>Keith

this is off the subject but, 

Don't the numbers in the car names above refair to the engine size in 
liters? i.e. ls400 = 4.0litre engine, sc300 = 3.0 liter "Sport Coupe".. 
and Q45 = 4.5liter.. (similar, kinda, to BMW and MB nameing deal). 

issa

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103198
Subject: buy back
From: <LIBEMC@BYUVM.BITNET>

We were at a dealership today looking at buying a car and
the salesman was showing us something he was calling a
"buy back".  Is that a car that was fleeted and then
given back for the new model the next year?  If that
is so, how many miles is a good number to have on it
and are these types of cars generally a good buy?

Thanks,
Ellen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103199
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: Borgward question

In article <1r93m7INNnb3@shelley.u.washington.edu>  
monet@carson.u.washington.edu (Diana Smith) writes:
> 
> My ex-husband & I used to own Borgwards. 
> ...
> even tho' they were
> ugly - they had names - one was Humphrey Borgward.

That's pretty good.

A friend had an Audi that he named Murphy.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103200
From: jwg@SEDV1.acd4.acd.com (jwg)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1r1d62$d6s@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:

   rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
   >How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
   >agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?

   Hear, hear!  Thanks, Robbie.

   You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as
   George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,
   who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.


I didn't know George Bush could drive a bulldozer.



Kee-ripe.

jim grey
jwg@acd4.acd.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103201
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <13798@news.duke.edu> infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew  Infante) write
s:

>
>You're actually worried about somebody stealing
>your oil?

Ahhh yes, Andrew, we meet again...

...no, not 'stealing' the oil, just draining it as to leave me stranded.

>C'mon, you think a vandal'll do that?!

Let me guess, you're from Hudson Ohio??

>That's absolutely ridiculous!

Get out and see the world.


"IF" I were the vandal, and I really hated someone, maybe someone who knew
something about cars, of course I would look for ANY types of valves I could
undo.  Especially, special oil drain plugs, and radiator petcocks.

As well as putting bad things in the gas...

While I would never vandalize someone's car, IF I were to, it would probably
be the 'time bomb' approach, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks
that way...


steve

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103203
From: abbott@priory.enet.dec.com (Robert Abbott)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??


In article <1r1crn$27g@transfer.stratus.com>, tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com (Tommy Szeto) writes...
>Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
>once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
>under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually happens
>after a good thunder storm.  A few Qs:
> 
>1) Is this a common problem?
>2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?
> 

I had the same problem in my '90 MX-6. Luckily I had it fixed
under warranty. I think they replaced a tail light gasket.
Check with a dealer, it's a known problem.

------------------------
Robert K. Abbott
abbott@tps.enet.dec.com          

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103204
From: joe@advtech.uswest.com ( Joe Thielen)
Subject: Re: what is the deal with "blue-book" value of an auto?

In article <C5w7or.DEx@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>newton@convex.com (Vicki Newton) writes:
>
>>i am in the process of buying a new auto.  i haven't decided yet whether
>>i should sell my current car myself or trade it in as part of the new
>>auto purchase.
>
>>i know that the "blue book" value for the car is $2825.  an acquaintence
>>has offered to give me blue book value for the car.  i am just wondering
>>if this is a standard measure for negotiating a resale price or if i
>>can hope to get more money from someone else.  what exactly is blue book
>>value based on?  i know that for its year (88) my car has low mileage
>>(< 50,000).  it is in excellent working condition but does have a few
>>dings on the exterior (nothing major).  do any of these facts alter the
>>fair selling p[rice of the car?  i am not looking to rip anyone off, i
>>just naturally want to get the best price for the car.
>
>>thanks a million,
>>veek
>
>	I think the Blue Book is the NADA handbook for used car prices, no?
>	Is the Blue Book value given the retail or wholesale value???  The 
>	Blue Book value isn't set in stone, though.  Low milage, extra addons
>	and stuff like that there can increase the resale price of the car, you
>	may want to head on over to the local library or borrow your friends
>	Blue Book and read up on that sort of stuff.  I paid ~$400 under BB
>	(retail) for my '87 Civic in 1990, and it was in perfect condition and
>	had only ~14.5K miles on it.  The guy was desparate to sell, new kid on
>	the way, etc., but it was a good price.  Remeber, both you and the 
>	buyer, if he has any sort of brains at all, are using the Blue Book, so
>	you should pick a fair price.  
>
>
>				Chintan Amin
>				llama@uiuc.edu
>
>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

A mileage chart should be available in the book.  It usually goes by
the class of car you own and year.  Usually you will end up adding a few
hundred dollars to the retail price or subtracting it...  Consumer
Reports also has a number you can call and get a quote for your area.
A friend of mine used it, and was quite happy with the service.  I
believe it cost about $10.00.

-- Joe

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103205
From: joe@advtech.uswest.com ( Joe Thielen)
Subject: Re: HELP with 89 Mitsubishi Galant GS Transmission

In article <1r6j9lINNac6@phakt.usc.edu> rmakarem@usc.edu (Total Stranger) writes:
>Hi,
>I need your help with a problem I have with a 1989 Mitsubishi
>Galant GS transmission.  The car has a 5 speed manual tranmission.
>Since the car was bought new, while shifting from 2nd to 3rd,  unless 
>I do it SLOWLY and carefully, it makes a "popping" or "hitting" sound.
>The dealer and Mitsubishi customer service (reached by an 800 #) say 
>this is NORMAL for the car.  IS IT?
>And about a year ago, at 35Kmiles, the stick shift handle got STUCK
>while attempting to put it in reverse:
>   1- The shifter would not budge.  The clutch had no effect.
>   2- The front tires would not budge, even when the clutch is
>      fully depressed.
>   3- If the clutch is released the engine would die.
>   4- Assuming that some gear was engaged while the shifter was
>      stuck, I could not make the car move.  It acted as if
>      it were in Neutral(except for dying when clutch is released.)
>   5- I finally was able to release the shifter by having 
>      someone rock the car back and forth (less than an inch),
>      while I depressed the clutch and jiggled the shifter.
>   6- The shifter acted normally after that.
>
>When this happened, I took it to the dealer, they checked the 
>clutch, it was o.k. They checked the transmission, it was o.k.
>
>I had the exact problem a couple of months ago, and again last
>week.  The dealer says there is nothing they can do because 
>Mitsubishi (the 800 #) says they have never heard of the
>problem, and the dealer could not reproduce the problem while
>they had the car.  
>In all three occurances, the car was parked head first in a garage,
>and since the front wheels were stuck, the car could not be towed
>to the dealer before releasing the shifter (hence temporarily
>solving the problem).  And the dealer, and Mitsubishi, refused to
>send someone to check the car while it was stuck. 
>I KNOW there is smething wrong with the transmission (shifting 
>from 2nd to 3rd), and getting stuck at random, but I can't get 
>the dealer to fix it. I need your help with the mechanical problems, 
>and with how to handle Mitsubishi.  
>All hints and suggestions are greatly appreciated, and sorry to
>bore you with the long post.
>
>Thanks,
>Rabih.


Try another dealer.  Sometimes the sophistication of equipment etc is
better at one dealer than another.  You may also find another dealer
willing to help you with the problem.

-- Joe

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103206
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <1993Apr22.112904.6771@ericsson.se> etxmst@sta.ericsson.se writes:
>But why not turn the question around, why are automatics so common in
>the US?

Because some people like them (and some people actually need them).

>My guess is that when they tried to couple manuals to the torque-rich
>V8's in the sixties the clutches turned out as real killers you had to 
>use both feet to depress, and that this has just lived on.

Yeah, right. Real muscle cars had a manual transmission, and their
clutches aren't that heavy. Shelby-American used plenty of
high-powered, high-torque engines, and Carroll only put autos in
his cars because people wanted them. (Blasphemers! Heretics!
Burn them, burn them for defiling a Shelby with an auto! ;-)
Real Cobras (and they were the ultimate sports car at the
time) had big-block Fords which turned out prodigious amounts
of power and torque, and _none_ of them had automatics. 

>And also, an automatic with a V8 engine can be real fun to drive.

Yeah, if you call a gear shift in the middle of a curve "fun." :-)

I personally would _love_ to have a '66 Galaxie 500 7-Liter Coupe,
with a fire-breathing 427 and four-onna-floor (to go along side
my '66 Galaxie 500 pillarless hardtop with a fire-breathing 390
with three-onna-tree; I love the sound of dual exhaust in the
morning! :-). There's no comparison between a REAL American
Muscle Car and a car with a big engine and an automatic, IMHO. 

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103207
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <24553@drutx.ATT.COM> klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL) writes:
>In article <C5srIB.6AH@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>| 
>| I normally have an unloaded Colt Delta in my glove box with a loaded
>| magazine handy (which is perfectly legal in Oklahoma). For those
>| times that I'm travelling inter-state, I keep an unloaded 
>| S&W .44 Magnum revolver in the glove box, with a speed-loader
>|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>| in my pocket (which is legal everywhere, under Federal law, Illinois
>| State Police be hanged).
>
>Carrying a pistol, loaded or unloaded, in the glove compartment, is
>considered carrying a concealed weapon in Colorado and is illegal without
>a concealed weapons permit.  Unless the law has been changed recently,
>carrying a weapon openly is legal in Colorado but concealing it is illegal.
>I read a newspaper account last year where police stopped a car on a
>traffic infraction and observed a .357 magnum revolver sitting on the
>seat.  The driver could not be cited for possessing or carrying the weapon
>because it was not concealed.  The article stated that if the gun had
>been discovered in the glove box, it would have been considered a crime.

Carrying in the glove box is not covered...I'm not sure what I was 
thinking there. It _is_ legal in Oklahoma. 

On inter-state travel, as long as it is legal for you to own
at your point of origination and destination, the gun is carried
in a locked compartment/box (glove box specifically excluded) separate
from the ammo, it is legal under Title 19, Chapter 44, Section 94(9? I
forget, and my copy of the regs is at home) of the US Code. This,
unfortunately, has not prevented the theft by state troopers of a
certain state (which shall remain nameless to protect the hopelessly
stupid) under that state's law.

Gee, and I thought Federal Law overrode state law...

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103208
From: wchutt@alex.monsanto.com (Bill C Hutton)
Subject: MR2 Car Cover For Sale




For Sale:

Fitted car cover specifically for '91',92,'93 MR-2.

Top of the line Evolution-3 [TM] fabric. Used for less than 6 months.
The cover is in excellent condition-no rips, cuts, stains or other
blemishes. It has grommets for a locking cable. The color is silver.

Price: $90 f.o.b. will ship collect


please contact wchutt@monsanto.com

or phone at

314 576 3798 after 6 pm CDT

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103209
From: gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti                             

>Don't the numbers in the car names above refair to the engine size in 
>liters? i.e. ls400 = 4.0litre engine, sc300 = 3.0 liter "Sport Coupe".. 
>and Q45 = 4.5liter.. (similar, kinda, to BMW and MB nameing deal). 

Note: BMW doesnt always follow this convention.

For example, 1980 320i had a 1.8 liter engine.  The 1979 had a 2.0 liter.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103210
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>
>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>I am quite interested in it.
>>Thanks!
>>Darren Gibbons
>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>	
>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????
>
>	Chintan Amin
>	llama@uiuc.edu
        If it looks like a miniature corvette it would be an opel GT,the
    headlights are flipped over by pulling a lever inside.>
>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103211
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.


In a previous article, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) says:

>In article <1r1vofINN871@usenet.pa.dec.com> tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!) writes:
>>	Are there any MR2 owners or motor-head gurus out there, that know why
>>my MR2's engine sounds noisy? The MR2's engine is noisy at the best of times, 
>>but not even a nice nose - it's one of those very ugly noises. 
>
>assuming yours is a non turbo MR2, the gruffness is characteristic of
>a large inline 4 that doesn't have balance shafts.  i guess toyota
>didn't care about "little" details like that when they can brag about
>the mid engine configuration and the flashy styling.
>
>myself, i automatically cross out any car from consideration (or
>recommendation) which has an inline 4 larger than 2 liters and no
>balance shafts..  it is a good rule of thumb to keep in mind if you
>ever want a halfway decent engine.  
>
>if the noise really bugs you, there is nothing else that you can do
>except to sell it and get a V6.
>
>
>eliot

nice theory.  too bad the MR2's never came with a four cylinder over 2.0
liters.  More like 1.6.  Or did they? were the nonturbo MR2II's  2.2 or
some such?

I also understand that anyone using balancing shafts on four cylinders, must
pay SAAB a royalty for using their patented design..like Porsche's 3.0 I4...

c ya
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103212
From: gt4722a@prism.gatech.EDU (James B. Atkins)
Subject: Honda Mailing list?


	Is there a Honda mailing list, and if so how do I subscribe to it?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103213
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article <tcora-220493100925@b329-gator-3.pica.army.mil> tcora@pica.army.mil (Tom Coradeschi) writes:

[Useless road design, speed rate discussion deleted.]

>> Actually, the roads were designated as safe at 80 when they were built
>> in the 1950's taking into account the kinds of cars then available. The
>> number would be much higher today because the cars, tires and just about
>> everything else has imprivoved a lot.
>
>Except the drivers.

Thank You!
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      TRAVIS disclamer: the ideas expressed above are in fact the same as 
                        my employer, since I have none |-)
           e-mail, flame, at : marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103214
From: erini@enterprise.ifp.uiuc.edu (Erini Doss)
Subject: CELLULAR ANTANNAS

 I need to get some info. on cellular antennas.. who
are the biggest companies in this market now? how much
do their antenna cost? what are the specs on the antennas
(gain, directivity)...?  who is the contact person?


thank-you 

email at erini@enterprise.ifp.uiuc.edu



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103215
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: locking lugnuts / tire rebalance??

>In article <1993Apr22.145940.1@skcla.monsanto.com> mas@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
>>If you put a locking lugnut on your tires, do you need to have your
>>tires rebalanced??
>>
>>John Mas
>>
>>
>>E-Mail Address     ::     MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM
>>
>

I bought a set of ARE's a few months back and decided to add locks
so that I could keep my new rims. I haven't had a balance problem 
yet so I assume that it might be just particular to your type of
stock nuts. My rims were balanced with new BFG T/A's at a speed 
shop to the finest setting on their bal. machine, so that helps too.

Zauberer aka. Travis T.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103216
From: erini@enterprise.ifp.uiuc.edu (Erini Doss)
Subject: TRUCKING INDUSTRY

 which are them main trucking companeies and
their locations?  do you have the name of ac
a contact person?


thanks..

email at erini@enterprise.ifp.uiuc.edu



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103217
From: almanb@sr.hp.com (Bob Alman)
Subject: Re: Where can I get a New York taxi?

wharfie (wrat@unisql.UUCP) wrote:
: In article <C5r66A.6rB@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> almanb@sr.hp.com (Bob Alman) writes:
: >          "hose"  h-o-s-e

: 	Dork.  d-o-r-k.


Oh, really?  
Here's what you posted earlier in another thread.  Before you thrash
others for making simple mistakes or flaunt your wonderful "vi skill",
think about how you make them feel as well as how you look (you spelled
it right). ;-}
For years you have assaulted others with offensive language, etc.  From
the content of many of your posts, you appear to have a lot of useful
information to share with people, but it gets overshadowed when you come
across as an abusive smart-ass.  


wharfie (wrat@unisql.UUCP) wrote:
: In article <C5LoBL.DDw@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Z
auberer) writes:
: >
: > Remember roads in America are NOT designed for speeds above 80
meaning they
: >would be safe at 55-65. Roads like the Autobahn are smoother,
straiter,
: >wider and slightly banked.

:       Well, that's news.  Before 1975 the speed limit on Texas
highways
: was 75.  The speed limit on the New Jersey Turnpike (I-95) was 70.
There
: were no speed limits in Nevada or Montana.

: >east becoming hidden by trees after about 1,000 ft and continued to
the
: >left strait north. I wanted to turn north, checked the south lane,
rolled

:       "straight".  s-t-r-a-i-g-h-t


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103218
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: Choice of gauges

In article <C5yBo4.E5I@vcd.hp.com> dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Gauge) writes:
>If you had free reign to design your own instrument cluster, which
>gauges would you choose to have beyond the basic set?
>
>I consider the basic set to be:
>
>	- tach
          must have
>
>	- coolant temp (or cylinder head temp for air-cooled engines)
          must
>	- oil pressure
          must
>	- amps
          I've seen amps and volts, I would go for the volts
>	- speedo
          must you ask?
>	- fuel
          I would like to know how much gas I have. Of course the 
          gauge I have now dosen't tell me s**t so I could see not 
          having one in favor of  a warning light at say, 50mi
>
>others that are nice to have:
>
>	- volts (maybe this should be in the basic set)
>	- vacuum/boost
          OOOOOOHHHHH! how I would LOOOVE to have a vacuum gauge 
           on my dash!

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      TRAVIS disclamer: the ideas expressed above are in fact the same as 
                        my employer, since I have none |-)
           e-mail, flame, at : marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103219
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Subject: Re: comparing saabs & bmw's

edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards) writes:
> 
> BMW's **SUCK** in the snow.  I have aggressive snows, plus a hundred
> pounds of sand in the back, and I still try to avoid driving in the snow.
> I happily took the SAAB through blizzard conditions without a worry.
> I would say this is the single design flaw in the BMW.

For a reasonable sum, you can get a BMW with traction control:
a torque-sensing (limited slip) rear differential.  Since no
FWD car, including the Saab, has this kind of front differential,
since it would exacerbate torque steer, a BMW with traction control
should have the theoretical advantage on snow.  Of course weight
distribution and skinny tires could affect this...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103220
From: chan@ee.rochester.edu (Chan)
Subject: BFGoodrich Radial T/A & Touring T/A tires

Hi:

I am looking for tires.  I would like to hear your experience on the 
BF Goodrich Radial T/A tires and/or the Touring T/A especially for
size P185/70R13.

For Radial T/A: How do they do in SNOW, and WET weather?  Are they quiet tires?

For Touring T/A: How many miles can they last?  I believe they are in
                 every way equal/better than Radial T/A.  Am I right?

-Chan.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103221
From: amiller@almaden.ibm.com (Alex Miller)
Subject: Re: Choice of gauges


If I'm going to drive on a public road then I need a
speedometer, and an odometer helps for navigation.
 
My 1965 Chevy has a bare minimum:  Engine-temp and
Oil-press warning lights and a fuel gauge. 

My 1983 VW has tach, water-temp, voltmeter 
and oil-temp gauges. 
 
If I had a turbo car, I'd want a vacuum manifold/boost
gauge.  An oil pressure gauge is a nice, reassuring
gauge to look at.  If my car was air cooled, then I
would substitute a cyl-head-temp gauge for the water-temp
gauge.
 
A few years ago, I looked at the Audi Quattro Si Coupe
that Bobby Unser used to win the 1986 Pikes Peak Hill Climb.
The gauge layout, from left to right, top to bottom was:
 
----------------------------------
 
speedometer
 
----------------------------------
 
fuel                  tranny
press                 temp
 
----------------------------------
 
differential           water
temp                   temp
 
----------------------------------
 
big orange             tach
oil-press
warning light
 
----------------------------------
 
oil-temp               boost
 
----------------------------------
 
oil-press
 
---------------------------------- 
 
Alex
amiller@almaden.ibm.com


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103222
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: comparing saabs & bmw's

In article <lth2onINN3r0@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>For a reasonable sum, you can get a BMW with traction control:
>a torque-sensing (limited slip) rear differential.  

"traction control" as far as the optional feature that one buys with
cars is not the same thing at all as a torque sensing differential.

a torque sensing differential is a type of LSD, but not all LSD's
are torque sensing.  viscous coupled differentials (as opposed to
viscous couplings) are rotational sensing, not torque sensing.
for that matter, so are "traction control" systems that use ABS
sensors and pulse braking.

then there are the older posi-tracs and whatever which i am not
familiar with the workings.


eliot




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103223
From: jjmckay@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jim McKay)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com (Tommy Szeto) writes:

>Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
>once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
>under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually happens
>after a good thunder storm.  A few Qs:

>1) Is this a common problem?

Yes this is a common problem.  The leaks occur through the seal of the 
taillights.  Unfortunately, Ford has this with Most Probes and does
not have a recall for it.  Very dissatisfying to say the least.

>2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?

There is no drain holes that I know of.  I used a margine tub to drain it
Regretably I waited three months as I was short cash and they wouldn't fix it
under warrantee.  Then I paid dearly as it messed up my electrical system
including a balance/motion sensor which is located near the fuel shutoff in 
the trunk.  This resulted in my passive restraints malfunctioning--they would
not retract.  So I ended up paying about $200 to have the sensor replaced; 
$90 to have the tail lights resealed (they firts replaced the hatch gasket
which I insisted was not the problem so they did not charge me for that
when I proved to be right.); not to mention the water damage to the 
covers to the trunk/spare com partment and algae in the taillights.

very annoying.  Don't let the water problem go--get it fixed or you'll pay
more later.  Considering how common a problem it is I hope every one
complains to Ford.

>Thanks for any info.
>Tom

>-- 
>Tom Szeto                         "No!  Not those peanuts!  The ones on the
>tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com       bottom....ggnuuaahuuhh" 
>#include <disclaimer.h>            - Homer Simpson

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103224
From: shantanu@risc.sps.mot.com (Shantanu Ganguly)
Subject: Re: Are BMW's worth the price?

In article <9866@ceylon.gte.com> hhd0@harvey.gte.com (Horace Dediu) writes:
>In article <1pvjlnINNckf@daffy.sps.mot.com>, shantanu@risc.sps.mot.com (Shantanu Ganguly) writes:

>|> 
>|> Some comments:
>|> 
>|> a) Good performance and mid and high speeds can be obtained by adjusting the
>|>    top gear and final drive ratios. Contrary to popular misperception, a 
>|>    number of Japanese cars have quite good performance from 70+ in top
>|>    gear. 
>
>No problem with that.  The question is:  do they perform consistently in all
>conditions (roads, winds and curves) at that speed and do so for hours on end, 
>year after year without giving the driver white knuckles?  From my experience on 
>the Autobahns/Autostrade, a good touring car can be easily distinguished by its 
>"poise" at >100mph.  The best stay on cruise control at 155 for hours.  I've
>seen the typical boy racer in a Fiat try to keep up.  Sure they hit the century
>mark, but if the wind blows the wrong way they change lanes, and if on an
>overpass, they may fly right into a guardrail.  The buffeting at 125 can be
>severe enough to  make the hood bend.  Tires at 155 can melt, and a pothole can
>kill.  Many German cars are designed for this environment, even if they can't
>seem to get out of their own way from a stop light (Mercedes come to mind in
>particular.)  And another design point is fuel economy at those speeds.  The
>Germans gear the car for very good high speed efficiency (a typical M-B 300E turns
>1500 at 55, almost a stall :-)

Good point. I have no idea how either of my Hondas will handle at 100+ mph,
nor do they reach 155. However, using `high' to be 70-90 mph:

a) They are quite amenable to long high speed drives. I've done several
1k mile+ trips in my Civic with no problems whatsoever. The last big trip
I made was driving from New York to Texas. I remember driving 700-800
miles a day at typically 75-85 mph  without any problems. I'm sure I  
would have been more comfortable driving a benz, but no white knuckles.
No problems with winds and curves. 

Then there was the trip back from New Orleans after Mardi Gras - where
we were doing 80+ all the way to Houston. No problems.

b) Both my cars have surprising good fuel economy at high speeds. I see
no difference between sustained 60 mph and sustained 80mph. On the trip
back from New Orleans, we got about 30 mpg in my Integra, quite ok. Mind
you, the engine revs to almost 4k at 80. The civic is markedly better
than the Integra in fuel economy. 50k miles down the road, I still
get 35 mpg at 70-75 mph driving.


>|> b) I can't understand why these high-scale European marquees are afraid
>|>    to design engines that can be repeatedly revved to near redline in
>|>    the low gears. I have been doing that for that last 50k miles with
>|>    my lowly Civic, with no detriment to either the engine or the clutch,
>|>    and getting excellent mpg to boot. I'd call this an engineering hack
>|>    to cover up design deficiencies.
>
>At 50k miles you'd still be breaking-in a "high-scale European marquee"  They 
>typically are designed to last 300,000 miles per engine, 500,000 mi. per
>chassis. (The record is now over 1,500,000 miles on a Benz diesel, and I've
>read about *transmissions* lasting 700,000 miles.)  Speaking of

Now now, you can't compare a diesel with a gasoline engine. I see enough
bmws and gasoline mercs for sale that have 100-150k miles on them and advertise 
rebuilt engines. If honda was to build an accord for 30k, I'd darn well
expect the sucker to last 300k miles.

>diesels, they have very good efficiency at the cost of acceleration, and are very
>popular in all European cars (diesel is considered the "green" fuel) from the
>smallest econoboxes to the luxo-barges.  Again, we see a difference in mentality.
>Diesels in the US are considered slightly worse than useless, and extremely
>"dirty" to boot so you can't give them away.

Ever got caught behind a early 80's 300SDL at a stop light? It's not
pleasant. The newer MB's are a lot better though. The diesel Volvos
and VWs are probably the smelliest offenders.

As for economy, why should we care? Gas is cheap! I personally wouldn't
buy a diesel car for any reason - what does it buy me?

Shantanu Ganguly
Somerset (Motorola)

phone : (512) 795-7146                  Motorola Inc, Mail Drop OE 513
fax   : (512) 795-7513                  6501 William Cannon Drive W.
                                        Austin TX 78735-8598
email : shantanu%ibmoto.com@oakhill.sps.mot.com



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103225
From: andrei@namao.uucp (Andrei Chichak)
Subject: Re: Bimmer vs Beamer

Mark Monninger (markm@latium.) wrote:
> Although not in direct response to the referenced article, just to set the 
> record straight, Beamers are BMW motorcycles. BMW cars are Bimmers. Please,
> let's get our terms straight.
> 
> Actually, some purists would argue that the only true Bimmer is a round
> tail light 2002 or 1600.
> 
> Mark
Back when I was building round tail light 2002s they were Bimmers.  It was
only when the (red suspendered, Reganomics generated, quiche eating) Yuppies
got into the market >-( that they became Beamers and the hood ornaments started
disappering.

Andrei

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103226
From: cak3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (CHAD ANDREW KAUFFMAN)
Subject: Car alarm info. (UNGO BOX)




    I want to get a car alarm and I am thinking about getting an Ungo Box.
    Does anyone out there have any knowledge or experience with any of
    these alarms?  How about price ranges for the different models?
    Are these good car alarms?  Please email me any responces.

                cak3@ns3.lehigh.edu

                                        Chad
                                                Chad

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103227
From: bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Spuzy" Moss)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

The rubber drain plugs under my carpet in my mazda glc leaked
like the ones are doing under your spare in the Probe.
I tooke them out and put some silicone sealant on them
and put them back in.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103228
From: rhorwell@crab.network-a (Roland Faragher-Horwell)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?

In article 2550@ericsson.se, etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121) writes:
>In article 1r3n32INNk9p@ctron-news.ctron.com, smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr21.032905.29286@reed.edu>, rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour) writes:
>>>In article <1993Apr20.174246.14375@wam.umd.edu> lerxst@wam.umd.edu (where's my  thing) writes:
>>>> It was called a Bricklin.
>>
>>>Bricklins were manufactured in the 70s with engines from Ford.
>>
>>Waitaminnit, didn't the Bricklin have an Pugeot six-cylinder?  Or am I
>>confusing it with the DeLorean?  I was sure the DeLorean had a v8.
>>
>
>The DeLorean had the yucky PRV V6 engine. A joint-venture between 
>Peugout (note spelling), Renault and Volvo. PRV. This engine is a *MIGHTY BORING* 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>Markus
 
Markus, what is that we are noting about the spelling?  That you aren't good at it? :^)
That Peugeot is OUT of N. America?  What does this mean?

Roland, An intrigued Peugeot admirer 



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103229
From: firman@envmsa.eas.asu.edu (B B S)
Subject: Re: VIPER

In article <C5JnHA.8IB@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen) writes...
> 
>Last night I had a dream that my dad bought a Viper.
>I took it out for a test drive, without his knowledge,
>and had to push it all the way home just to avoid a ticket.
>Wierd dream, I wonder what it means....
> 
You probably should told you dad to buy that car, than your dream might
come true.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103230
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Saturn's Pricing Policy

In article <1qn19m$c9s@vela.acs.oakland.edu> mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu writes:
>I just ordered a Saturn SL1 after considering a few imports. Frankly, the Saturn
>
stuff deleted...

>Saturn also has a good extended warranty program; $675 for 6 year/60K miles, 
>fully refunded if you don't use it. That works out to an actual cost of $170 or
>so, based on the 6 year treasury rates. Using savings account rates it's more
>like $120. In the first three years it also buys you free rental during any
>warranty work, without counting against the refund.
>--mike
>
in general extended warranties are a ripoff.  this 6yr/60k is really only
3yr/24k because you get the 3yr/36k one *free* with the car.  also, is there
perhaps a deductible you pay each and every time you use the warranty?
also, are certain items excluded from coverage on the extended warranty?
and if you use it at year 4 for some 60 buck job and pay a 50 deduct and then
you have used it so no refund ever!
again, extended warranties are ripoff, high profit items for the dealer.
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103231
From: daubendr@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Darren R Daubenspeck)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?


> they are pretty much junk, stay away from them.  they will be replaced next
> year with all new models.  


Junk?  They've made the C&D lists for years due to their excellent handling and  
acceleration.  They have been around since about, oh, 85 or 86, so they're not  
the newest on the lot, and mileage is about five to eight MPG under the class  
leader.  You can get into a 3.0 L v-6 (141 hp) Shadow for $10~11K (the I-4  
turbo a bit more), and a droptop for $14~15K.  



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103232
From: david@trsvax.tandy.com
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?


   I wouldn't want anyone to make kindling out of my front living-
   room wall and then drive their diesel powered M-60 tank into it,
   shooting super-hot soot all over my curtains and that freshly 
   made kindling.
   In other words, please don't FLAME me!

	  Yup, I'll have to answer for this one.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103233
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Subject: Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

My wife and I looked at, and drove one last fall. This was a 1992 model.
It was WAYYYYYYYYY underpowered. I could not imagine driving it in the
mountains here in Colorado at anything approaching highway speeds. I
have read that the new 1993 models have a newer, improved hp engine. 

I'm quite serious that I laughed in the salesman face when he said "once
it's broken in it will feel more powerful". I had been used to driving a
Jeep 4.0L 190hp engine. I believe the 92's Land Cruisers (Land Yachts)
were 3.0L, the sames as the 4Runner, which is also underpowered (in my
own personal opinion). 

They are big cars, very roomy, but nothing spectacular.


( ___ )-----------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email: tvervaek@cs.itc.hp.com        | \ |
 | / | Hewlett Packard Co.    Phone: 719-590-2133                  | \ |
 | / |                                                             | \ |
 |___|          I love animals. They taste delicious.              |___|
(_____)-----------------------------------------------------------(_____)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103234
From: davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott)
Subject: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.

I'm interestend in determining whether or not these things are true.
Has anyone out there with Geico made a claim?  I'd be interested in
hearing whether or not you were satisfied with the service and whether
you then had trouble renewing your policy.

I'm also interested in any good or bad stories about Liberty Mutual or
State Farm.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103235
From: sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee) writes:
|> : be valued in terms of money because they are human beings, I submit 
|> that they are not human beings.  

Such submissions have been made before, e.g. regarding Jews.
 
In article <1993Apr21.042234.23924@nuscc.nus.sg>, matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes:
|> Absolutely. A scratch on my car bothers me more than the death of any
|> number of scum. All of you feel the same way---you just won't admit it.
|> When are people going to realise that the mere fact that a piece of flesh
|> moves and has the approximate shape of a human being does not in itself
|> mean that it has "rights"?

All you Dirty Harry types, eager to pull a gun on  some scum guilty of 
scratching your stupid painted metal boxes on wheels : have you ever 
KILLED a human to speak so lightly about such matters  ?

Sergei
 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103236
From: mark@luke.cray.com (Mark Dean)
Subject: Re: Ford and the auto

> Hello, my name is Russell Wong and I am doing a research project on Henry
> Ford and his automobile.  I need information on whether Ford is
> partially responsible for all of the car accidents and the depletion of
> the ozone layer.  Also, any other additional information will be greatly
> appreciated.  Thanks. 


>So would Mr. Benz.. -Eh?

>And Mr. Chevy, Mr. Toyokogio, and Mr (Insert Car name here...)


>---
>Dan Reed - blu@cellar.org - Eat Your Pets - Poke Out Your Eyes - Kill Your 
>Boss - Burn Down Your House - Move To Elmer NJ - Rip Out Your Nose Hairs With 
>A Lead Holder - Use X-Acto Knives For Dental Work - Hit Your Mother.......

People get a life !!!!!!!!!!

            MD

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103237
From: mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri)
Subject: Re: Renting from Alamo

>> 'cause a friend rented a car last year and it turned out he needed a lot more
>>insurance than what's included in the base price. But on the other hand he 
>>didn't rent it from Alamo.
>>
>>Probability that I'll be needing more insurance?

>Unless you have an accident, you won't need more.  
>
>Joe
>
==================
Let me see, "unless you have an accident, you won't need more", hmmmmmmm.

Bijan

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103238
From: yjwon@deca.cs.umn.edu (Youjip Won)
Subject: Manual Xmission-Advice needed...

I have manual transmission 5 speed. It difficult to engage gear. Does xmission oil change improve this situation?
What do you think about the most favorable xmission oil change period?

Youjip

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103239
From: brother@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Jesse McCabe)
Subject: Re: Choice of gauges

dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Gauge) writes:
B
B

>I can think of a few others, but what are your ideas and why?

>-Dave

Well, in my BMW I like the little light that turns on when you are running
out of gas, it's a big help.  If you got a turbo, that gauge is a must.
If I could, I'd just like all the gauges possible on my car, but...  we can't
have everything can we?


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103240
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr23.172824.17128@telxon.mis.telxon.com> joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt) writes:


> Newsgroups: rec.autos
> Path: eclipse!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!louie!udel!news.intercon.com!psinntp!telxon.mis.telxon.com!joes
> From: joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt)
> Organization: TELXON Corporation
> References: <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu> <1993Apr23.132214.6755@cs.tulane.edu> <1r8ufk$fr7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 17:28:24 GMT
> Lines: 30
> 
> In article <1r8ufk$fr7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. 
> Spencer) writes:
> >
> >In a previous article, finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil () says:
> >
> >>In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
> >>eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
> >>>
> >>>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>eliot
> >>
> >>Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
> >>really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
> >>"underscore 4")?
> >
> >i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
> >(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)
> >DREW
> 
> I've always heard them referred to "horizontally opposed"...
> 
> Joe
> 

Kinda dull - I've always liked 'boxer' - Subarus can use this, as does
Porche 911 and BMW twins (that's a motorcycle for you with 2 too many 
wheels).
Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103241
From: jdenune@pandora.sdsu.edu (John Denune)
Subject: Re: Sport Utility Vehical comparisons? Any Opinions?

Karl Elvis MacRae (kmac@cisco.com) wrote:

: 	I'm looking at the following three SUV's; anyone who's driven all
: 	three have any strong opinions?
:
: 	Ford Explorer
: 	Toyota 4Runner
: 	Nissan Pathfinder

Well, I was just in your position and I drove all three and liked
all three.  It was a toss-up.  I marginally went with the Pathfinder
based on reliability and looks.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

---John
jdenune@pandora.sdsu.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103242
From: John Foster <32HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

>From: drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
>In article <pod.734834505@sour.sw.oz.au> pod@sour.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell) wri
>>In <1qgi8eINNhs5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> yiklam@unixg.ubc.ca (Yik Chong Lam) writes
>>
>>>Hello,
>>
>>>      Does anyone know how to take out the bolt under the engine
>>>compartment?  Should I turn clockwise or counter?  I tried any kind
>>>of lubricants, WD-40,etc, but I still failed!
>>>      Do you think I can use a electric drill( change to a suitable
>>>bit ) to turn it out?  If I can succeed, can I re-tighten it not too
>>>tight, is it safe without oil leak?
>>
>>You shouldn't need any power tools to undo it, an electric drill
>>probably won't give you much extra torque anyway.  WD40 will help
>>things that are seized due to rust but this is unlikely for a drain
>>plug.  You should be able to undo it with a spanner.  When it
>>loosens, it will probably become very loose and you will bash your
>>knuckles on the underside of the car - this is the price you must
>>pay for doing you own work.
>
>No, that's the price you pay for not knowing how to use a
>wrench.  You want to pull the wrench towards you, away from
>painful knuckle splitting hard things.  If you can't pull it
>because things are in the way, push it with an open hand.

I find this method much better myself, too, although I do really
hate it when the bolt finally comes loose and the wrench and my
hand both come crashing into my face.  After coming to, which is
about 15 minutes later, I change my clothes (because by this time
all the oil has drained *on* me), and ice my entire face and suck
down about 20 Tylenol to ease the pain.  Later in the day I then
proceed with refilling the engine oil.

It's just crazy how I try and change the oil on my cars in one
weekend---I go through about 3 bottles of Tylenol and 2 bags of ice.

John

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103243
From: dspalme@mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
: 
: >: nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) writes:
: >: > HELP!!!
: >: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.


: >jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry) writes:
: >: FYI, just last week the PBS show Motor Week gave the results of what they 
: >: thought were the best cars for '93.  In the convertible category, the 
:                                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   (snip, snip)

: Does Porsche have a patent on the "targa" name?
: I mean, convertible to me means "top down", which the del Sol certainly
: does NOT do.  It has the center that lifts out.  This is what i would
: term a targa(unless Porsches was gonna sue me for doing that).  I know
: the rear window rolls down, but i still can hardly consider this car
: to be a convertible.
: 
: DREW

Here we go...

No, of course Porsche doesn't have a patent on the "targa" name.  If that were
the case, what would Fiat do?  I suppose that technically my del Sol is not a
"convertible" in the literal sense, but it certainly classifies as an open-
topped car.  In addition, the rear section behind the removable top is what
makes my car _infinately_ safer than a convertible.

(flame-retardant on ...)

Diane
dspalme@mke.ab.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103244
Subject: Re: Information needed...
From: mchase@oneb.almanac.bc.ca

yjwon@deca.cs.umn.edu (Youjip Won) writes:

> Hi! This is my first time to post on this news group. Now a days , I have stu
>    There is a engine warning signal on the dash board. While driving, this si
>   I wanna know how the engine warning signal comes. Is anybody out there who 
> 

Low oil pressure, usually.  Could be your oil pump, or...
checked your oil lately???

MC

           mchase@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Mark Chase)
     The Old Frog's Almanac  (Home of The Almanac UNIX Users Group)    
(604) 245-3205 (v32)    <Public Access UseNet>    (604) 245-4366 (2400x4)
        Vancouver Island, British Columbia    Waffle XENIX 1.64  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103251
From: kking@cs.uah.edu (Ken King)
Subject: Re: The Kuebelwagen??!!          

In article <C5K5Co.F09@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:
>	Sorry for the mis-spelling, but I forgot how to spell it after 
>my series of exams and NO-on hand reference here.
>
>	Is it still possible to get those cute WWII VW Jeep-wanna-be's?
>A replica would be great I think.  

  greetings:
  you may be in luck.  i seem to recall seeing a blurb in one of
the kit car magazines about a company in norway who pulled a
mould (sp?) off a real kubel, and has adapted it to the beetle
floorpan.  as for the suspension, all i can remember about the
vw thing i used to own is that it had about 3" more suspension
travel than a stock beetle, but i'd heard that there were after-
market parts for off-road use that were as good or better.  note
that the major difference (looks wise) between a kubel & a thing
are the hood and the fenders.  the kubel had an external spare
mounted *on* the hood, and the hood sloped down (for visibility?)
sharply, and had rounded fenders.  the thing has a lightly sloped 
hood with the spare mounted inside (unless moved to make for more
luggage space...) and has half-hexagon shaped fenders (imagine a
nut large enough to put a tire *in*, and cut off the bottom half
of it...).
  unfortunately, i don't have that info anymore.  try stopping
at a local bookstore and copying down the phone numbers for the
two big mag's and calling them.  they might be able to get the
number for you (don't forget to calculate the time difference to
norway before calling...).

later,
kc
-- 
          ___==A==___          | Quick Bones, help me get | #include 
  .---====   ( o )   ====---.  | this Klingon off my *ss! |  <std/disclaimer.h>
 /        ~~~~~~~~~~~        \ | Damn it, Jim, I'm a      | 
 ()     kking@cs.uah.edu    () | doctor, not a bidet!  :) | 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103256
From: rich1@netcom.com (Richard Soennichsen)
Subject: Re: service indicator of a BMW

Save youself the cash.  Take it from a BMW mechanic.  Idiot lights are for just that.  Buy yourself a ballpoint pen and write it down yourself.  Change your oil every 3000 mi. and you will be just fine.

	Follow the regular service intervals in you r book also.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103257
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

From article <1r8uckINNcmf@gap.caltech.edu>, by wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su):
> In article <1r7cr2INNvar@sumax.seattleu.edu> smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris) writes:
>>The Villager-Quest seem like the best of the Cravan/Voyager copies to
> <come along since the Mazda MPV.  The NISSAN MAXIMA engine paired with
>>the MAXIMA 4 speed Auto Trans should be an excellent drive train, and
> <the rest of the vehicle seems well engineered.  Only the price is
>>controversial.
> 
> Hmm.  The last time I checked, Villager/Quest does not have a Maxima
> engine, and is very much under powered for its weight.

--Yes, it does come with the Maxima GXE engine mated to the Maxima SE
  transmission.  And it has decent power for a minivan also.  

  Check again.

--Aamir Qazi
-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103258
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles

In article <C5L86z.E73@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes:
>Yes, I saw a 200 Turbo Quattro wagon on I-287 in NJ on Monday.  I thought
>Audi stopped selling wagons in the US after the 5000.  This is exactly the
>type of vehicle I would like to own.  I bet its price is 4-5 times my
>car budget.

think again!!  thanks to 60 minutes (tick tick tick), used 200
quattros are bargains.. '89s go for about $15K, '90s go for perhaps 1
or 2K more, the 20 valve 91's are quite a bit more because of an
enormous hp and torque gain.. i think they go for about $23 to $25K if
you can find one.  i have seen quite a lot of '89-'90 200 quattros (not
that many wagons though) at the dealer lot.. they use very high
quality paint and the entire car is zinc galvanized, so it will never
rust.

in short, typically a 4 yr old 200 looks no more older than a 1 year
old and the 5 bangers are bullet proof engines.  200K out of one is
not rare, even for a turbo, which is watercooled for the 200s.  then
there are aftermarket chips that you can buy to bump up turbo boost...

if you are into luxo-gizmos.. the cars are loaded with just about
everything too..

the price of parts is a different story though...


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103259
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Dealer cheated me with wrong odometer reading. Need help!

In article <1qvrnpINNnid@shelley.u.washington.edu> yongje@hardy.u.washington.edu (Yong Je Lim) writes:
>Here is a story.  I bought a car about two weeks ago.  I finally can
>get hold of the previous owner of the car and got all maintanence
>history of the car.  In between '91 and '92, the instrument pannel 
>of the car has been replaced and the odometer also has been reset
>to zero.  Therefore, the true meter reading is the reading before
>replacement plus current mileage.  That shows 35000 mile difference
>comparing to the mileage on the odometer disclosure from.  The 
>dealer never told me anything about that important story.
>
>I hope that I can return the car with full refund.  Do u think this
>is possible?  Does anyone have similar experiences?  Any comments
>will be appreciated.  Thanks.

This is a tricky situation; if the previous owner didn't inform
the dealer of the odometer change, then the previous owner committed
fraud, and he may be liable. The dealer may also be liable; If the
previous owner notified the dealer, or if the previous owner had the 
dash replaced at a dealer, or if the previous owner had the dash changed 
legally, any records search on the car should turn up the fact that
the odometer had been altered.  If a dealer changes the speedometer, he has
to report it (it goes into the car's service record with the manufacturer,
and on the title, if I remember correctly; the dealer told me that
the old mileage, etc. were sent to Ford when my T-Bird's speedo 
was replaced). If the odometer can be set to the old mileage, it must 
be; if it can't (eg, electrically-driven odometers) then the mileage 
of the old odometer must be written on a permanent sticker which is 
affixed to the door frame of the vehicle. 

Either way, if the change had been done legally, then a records search
(which the dealer almost certainly did) should have turned it up.

Call your state's Department of Transportation/Public Safety/Motor
Vehicles--or your tag agent--to find out for certain what your
rights are. Your state's Attorney General will know for certain ;-)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103260
From: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

x>>
x>>>> Fake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.
x>>>> Any gold trim.
x >
x>>>     These, I will agree, are abominations, right along with the fake
x>>>continental spare-tire kit -- it's sad watching those little old ladies
x>>>try to load their groceries into the trunk with that huge tire-medallion
x>>>in the way.
x>>>     Most pitiful fake convertible top: on a "Cadillac" Cimarron, with
x>>>all the chrome door trim still visible -- not fooling *anyone*.
x>>>Of course, there was that Hyundai Excel I once saw...
x>>
Least you think bad taste is something new:
Back in the early 1970s I saw a couple of cars with *flocked* paint jobs.
Thats not a typo. I think they sprayed on some kind of glue then blew
on tiny pieces of nylon. It comes out looking like felt. Can you picture
a huge Plymouth Fury III in dark blue felt? I think I can even remember
one guy who did it in red to a early 1960s Corvette. That was after he had
turned it into a station wagon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mack Costello <mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)
David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC    ___/-\____
Bethesda, MD 20084-5000   Phone (301) 227-2431          (__________>|

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103261
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.


In a previous article, aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) says:

>
>In a previous article, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) says:
>
>>In article <1r1vofINN871@usenet.pa.dec.com> tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!) writes:
>nice theory.  too bad the MR2's never came with a four cylinder over 2.0
>liters.  More like 1.6.  Or did they? were the nonturbo MR2II's  2.2 or
>some such?

let me clarify, i think they both are 2.0 litres.

>I also understand that anyone using balancing shafts on four cylinders, must
>pay SAAB a royalty for using their patented design..like Porsche's 3.0 I4...

i was already corrected on this, and believe i may have been in errror, that
it is actually MISTUBISHI. 
apologies for butting into the thread.
>c ya
>DREW


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103262
From: lofaso@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Bernie Lofaso)
Subject: Re: Fast idle on 88 Ford Ranger

ljbartel@naomi.b23b.ingr.com (Les Bartel) writes:

>It did it again.  This morning, my 88 Ford Ranger was idling at 10,000 RPM.
>Ok, so I exaggerated a little, but it was idling very fast.  It has a 2
>liter carburated engine in it, and no blipping of the throttle would
>cause the idle to drop back to normal (I don't think the linkage is stuck).
>What can I do to fix this problem?  This has been a problem from time to
>time, but has straightened itself out - until now.  I don't have a tach,
>but by gauging by the sound of the engine, it is idling about twice as fast
>as it should be.  This is down from what it was idling at when I pulled up
>at a stop light.

Sometimes a bad choke pull-off diaphram will cause a car to fast idle. The
pull-off, which is vacuum actuated, provides a necessary pull in non-cold
weather conditions to get the idle off the the fast idle cam. Locate the
fast idle cam on your vehicle and see if you can rotate it to produce a
normal idle. If so, locate the diaphram and test it. If you can't apply
suction (via a good piece of rubber vacuum hose) with your mouth that will
cause the diaphram to retract, then it's bad and should be replaced.

Bernie Lofaso
Applied Research Labs

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103263
From: v064mb9k@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (NEIL B. GANDLER)
Subject: Opinions on 88-89 Pontiac Bonneville



  I am in the market to buy a used car. I am particularly
interested in the Pontiac Bonneville. My budget is between 7-
8 thousand. Would I be able to afford an 88 or 89. What
engines were available at this time. I know they didn't
redesign until the 1992 model year. How is the reliability of
past models. I would appreciate any advice or information.

                  Neil Gandler

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103264
From: stafford@lobby.ti.com (Ron Stafford)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <93111.12475032HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> John Foster <32HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
>Date: Wednesday, 21 Apr 1993 12:47:50 EDT
>From: John Foster <32HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.
>>From: drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
>>In article <pod.734834505@sour.sw.oz.au> pod@sour.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell) wri
>>>In <1qgi8eINNhs5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> yiklam@unixg.ubc.ca (Yik Chong Lam) writes
>>>
>>>>Hello,
>
>I find this method much better myself, too, although I do really
>hate it when the bolt finally comes loose and the wrench and my
>hand both come crashing into my face.  After coming to, which is
>about 15 minutes later, I change my clothes (because by this time
>all the oil has drained *on* me), and ice my entire face and suck
>down about 20 Tylenol to ease the pain.  Later in the day I then
>proceed with refilling the engine oil.
>
>It's just crazy how I try and change the oil on my cars in one
>weekend---I go through about 3 bottles of Tylenol and 2 bags of ice.
>
>John

Not everyone should be trusted with tools. ;-)


--------------------------------------------------------
Ron Stafford              TEXAS INSTRUMENTS INCORPORATED
(214) 917-2050            P.O.Box 655012, MS 3620
STAFFORD@LOBBY.TI.COM     Dallas, Texas 75265-3620

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103265
From: nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

jlong@emcnext2.tamu.edu (James Long) writes:

>In article <1r1crn$27g@transfer.stratus.com> tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com  
>(Tommy Szeto) writes:
>> Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
>> once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
>> under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually  
>happens
>> after a good thunder storm.  A few Qs:
>> 
>> 1) Is this a common problem?
>> 2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?

>I noticed this is my '89 probe also, when recently cleaning out the back.  I  
>think the water is coming *up* through some rubber stoppered holes beneath the  
>spare.  Mine looked slightly worn, and there was no water or water damage above  
>the level of the spare area. 

>This has taken a low priority since I just found out (while rotating my tires)  
>that I have a torn CV boot - ugh!!

I've got an 89 GT.  It has the smoked taillight assembly.  I think this is where
the water is getting in.  When I first got it (had it for a month), one of the rear
taillights fogged up with moisture.  I took it in to the dealer and they replaced
the entire assembly.  It happened to the other one about 3 months later.  This time
I happened to look in the spare tire well and noticed water standing in there.  The
dealer was more reluctant this time to replace it.  But I convinced them to
fix it.  (They must have had to deal with a number of other probes with the same
problem.)  I haven't noticed water in the taillamps (or the trunk) for the last 2.5
years, but just last month, the taillamp just fogged up again.  I'm going to try
to take it back to get them to fix it again.  I'm real tempted to drill some vent
and drain holes in the tops and bottoms of the assembly and forget about it.  This is
getting very annoying. (Almost every other `89 GT I've seen has had this problem.)

Vel
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Vel Natarajan  nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL  --
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103266
From: ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important?s


In a previous article, jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) says:

>jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:

>>In article <1r1jr9$m1v@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>>tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes:
>>>I figure that 30mph collisions into brick walls aren't common enough
>>>for me to spend that much extra money for protection, but there are
>>>lots of low-speed collisions that do worry me.

>>Get into an 30+ mph accident and you may reconsider. I've been in one
>>and it is *really* scarey. My life is something I value more
>>than a car's looks or handeling. Consider it insurance, it may not
>>happen often but when it does, you'll sure be glad you got a safe car.

>>Granted the tests aren't perfect but I'd much rather be in a car that
>>did well in the test than a car that did horribly. 

>You raise a valid point, but again it's a tradeoff -- how much money
>do you want to spend for that kind of protection?  You could buy a
>Volvo, Saab, or 'Benz and get really good crash protection (and other
>luxuries) but you'll pay significantly more for it.  In my case it's
>out of the question because *all* of those cars are beyond my budget.

I've been in two _major_ auto accidents, both were multiple car.  The worst
was a head-on three car collision (T intersection and one person ran a stop
sign).  In both cases I was stopped and had no place to go (and I saw it
coming both times). 

>Even in high-speed head-on collisions the most beneficial item you can
>have is a good old 3-point seatbelt.  Nowadays, at least in the US,
>you get an airbag if you get a 3-point belt so (presumably) you get an
>added safety benefit there as well.  That's something I certainly look
>for and which can be had in inexpensive cars.

If you _really_ want to add safety to _any_ car, simply add a cage to the
car.  They are available and cheap (about $500 in the USA).  Add to that
four or five or six point belts and you will walk away from collisions that
were otherwise not survivable.  but instead of people spending a little
extra money, we get legislation that says the gov't must mandate a minimal
level of protection for everyone. 

One other significant factor in improving one's own safety is to get some
training.  This will improve your safety more than any other single
investment will.  Drive/ride defensively (and that does not mean you have
to be a doddering old stick in the mud).  People here tend to enthuse about
autos more than the average (probably in the top 15th percentile in driving
ability), but still we sometimes overlook the obvious.  I've been to two
driving schools, and three riding schools for my motorcycle.  A very
worthwhile investment (and besides, it was a lot of fun too ;-). 

Safety is what you make of it, just because a carmaker doesn't provide you
with an adequate level of protection doesn't mean you have to leave it go at
that. 


-- 
Al Bowers  DOD #900  Alfa  Ducati  Hobie  Kottke  'blad  Iaido  NASA
"Well goodness sakes...don't you know that girls can't play guitar?"
                                             -Mary Chapin-Carpenter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103267
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?
From: stubbs@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Jerry Stubbs)


Yeah, but I hate to follow them with the exhaust at ground level. Not all
diesels are well maintained, either, it seems they run for so long that
people keep them going long after the top end is worn out.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103268
From: dchan@cisco.com (Derek Chan)
Subject: service indicator of a BMW


Does anyone know how to reset the service indicator of a BMW after changing
the oil yourself?

Also, I have about 3,000 miles on my 525i and so far only one of the five
yellow service indicators went out. That means I don't need oil service until
it reach approximatly 15,000 miles which doesn't make sense to me. Any idea?

PS of cause I did my first oil change at 1,200 miles 


Derek

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103269
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: Bimmer vs Beamer

In article <andrei.735406817@namao> andrei@namao.uucp (Andrei Chichak)  
writes:
> Back when I was building round tail light 2002s they were Bimmers.  It  
was
> only when the (red suspendered, Reganomics generated, quiche eating)  
Yuppies
> got into the market >-( that they became Beamers and the hood ornaments  
started
> disappering.
> 
Yep, that's when I noticed it too. I stopped replacing the hood badge  
after the second or third one (at $12.00 each).

2002 drivers used to flash their headlight at each other in greeting. Try  
flashing your headlights at a 318i driver and see what kind of look you  
get. They usually check their radar detector...they think you're alerting  
them to a cop.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103270
From: Tom Wetzel <twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Old Corvettes / Low insurance?

In article <rjnC5sxMG.JqH@netcom.com> Richard Newton II, rjn@netcom.com writes:
>On a related note, does this seem a sane price for a '67 convertible
>Corvette in good condition? How does one determine these things? My CR
>Used Car magazine doesn't list '67 corvettes :-) Any net wisdom on what 
>to look for/what to avoid? Thanks in advance!

Rich,
	First of all you might want to join the VetteNet (vettes@chiller.compaq
	.com)  during your search/acquisition of the 67.  $20k sounds about 
	right for a wrong engine, condition 3 car.  This means that the car may
	not have significant investment value but could be an excellent driver
	and or hobby car.  You will also want to get a copy of the Corvette
	Black Book immediately.  Don't leave home (to look at Vettes) without it.
	Since you are contemplating spending >$20k, you might want to invest a
	few hours in reading the "Corvette Buyer's Guide" and purchase Noland
	Adams' tape "How to Buy a Corvette."  The tape shows you how to check
	for damage, etc..  There are many many factors that will affect the
	value, road worthiness, and repair expense of your proposed 67.  The
	list is much too long to go into here.  Join the VetteNet where
	there are over 100 current Corvette owners (many with 60s vintage
	vettes) that are available to help you.  The pubs I mentioned above
	are available from Mid-America Designs (800) 637-5533 and several
	other Corvette parts sources.  Good luck!!!
	
	Tom   ('68 327/350hp - '79 Cruiser)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103278
From: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <1993Apr21.100149.1501@rtsg.mot.com>, kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane) writes:
|> As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
|> here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....

In many of our cities, there are traffic signals every 100 feet (unsynchronised,
of course (well here in Ottawa anyway)) and the roads are so congested that 
shifting manually is a real pain in the left foot.  Also, most Canadians are
too stupid to learn how to shift manually (gee, I gotta co-ordinate my two
feet on the clutch, brake _and_ accelerator, and I gotta steer, shift _and_
operate the signals (optional) and radio with my two hands... duh... it 
can't be done).  Also, most North American made cars come with the automatic 
as standard equipment, so why bother with a manual when the car can shift 
for you for no addition money.

|> -- 
|> ___________________________________________________________________ ____/|
|> John Kissane                           | Motorola Ireland Ltd.,   | \'o.O'
|> UUCP    : ..uunet!motcid!glas!kissanej | Mahon Industrial Estate, | =() ()=
|> Internet: kissanej@glas.rtsg.mot.com   | Blackrock, Cork, Ireland |    U

-- 
Doug Zolmer  Internet: dwjz@bnr.ca  Disclaimer: My opinions only   1 3 5
Bell-Northern Research Ltd.  Ottawa, Ontario, Canada               |-|-|
Dept. 7N61 - Service Control Point - Routing Services Design       2 3 R

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103279
From: gough@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (brian.w.gough)
Subject: 4X4 On/Off-Road Rally - Joliet Il.



************************************************************
*                                                          *
*      ATTENTION ALL FOUR WHEEL OFF ROAD ENTHUSIASTS       *
*                                                          *
*         On/Off Road Rally - Sunday, April 25th           *
*                   Joliet Illinois                        *
*                                                          *
************************************************************

The Event:

* The Joliet Mud Turtles, a Chicago land four wheel drive club, is
  sponsoring an On/Off Road Rally Sunday April 25th.

* For those who ask "What is an on/off road rally?", well...

  An On/Off Road Rally consists of the following:

   1. An on-the-road rally where participants are given a set of
      directions and clues guiding participates around the 
      Joliet/Plainfield area.  The object is to navigate a course
      based on a set of directions and clues.  Participants will
      be given a set of questions pertaining to the course which
      they must answer along the way.  Points are awarded for the
      number of correct answers given.  Directions will ultimately 
      lead to an off-road area where a four-wheel drive course is 
      set-up.  At various locations in the on-road course, check-points
      will be set-up where participants will be asked other questions
      or requested to perform some activity (e.g. tire roll, truck tow,
      basketball free-throw, etc.) for additional points.

   2. An optional off-road, four wheel drive course where participants
      will navigate off-road trails, mud bogs and/or hill climbs.
      Points are awarded for successfully navigating off-road obstacles
      without getting stuck.  If you should get stuck (which is half
      the fun anyway), there will be assistance to get your vehicle
      unstuck so you can try it again.  The off-road course will
      divided up based on tire size, so stock 4x4s as well as modified
      4x4s can run the course.
     
  At the end of the rally, trophies will be awarded to top scoring
  participants.  Door prizes and dash plaques will also be given out.
  Food and drinks also available at the conclusion.

* This is an organized activity sponsored by the Joliet Mud Turtles
  so safety and fun is our foremost concern.  All 4x4s must be
  street legal and have solid tow points for the off-road section
  of the course - we don't want to have to separate someone's bumper
  from their vehicle :) .

The Particulars:

* Rally begins at Instant Replay, 2409 Plainfield Road, Joliet Il.
    (815)436-9382   (see map below)
* Registration is between 9 and 10:30 a.m.  First truck out at 10:00 a.m.
* Rally date is Sunday April 25th, rain or shine
* There is an entry fee of $10 per truck.
* You must have a co-driver (passengers allowed)
* A valid drivers license is required
* Suggested equipment:
      CB Radio
      Compass
      Tow Strap and Clevis
      Clip Board and Pencil
* No alcohol during rally
* For more information contact
   Gary (815)727-3415
   Tom  (815)485-9346
   Norm Jr. (815)741-4853
   Brian (708)979-6083


                                            __
              Instant                      /\
      |       Replay |             |         \
      | 1.9mi  ___   | 1.2 mi      |        North
      |<----->|   | <------------> |
 Rt30 |       |___|  |             |
------|---------------------------------------------
 Exit |              |             |         ^
 257  |              |             |         |
      |              |             |         |
      |Rt55          |Canton       |Larkin   |
      |              |Farm         |Ave      |
      |              |Rd.          |         | 3 mi.
      |              |             |         |
      |              |             |         |
      |                            |         |
      |                            |         |
      |       Rt80                 |         v
----------------------------------------------------
      |                            | Exit
      |                            | 130B
      |                            |
   

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103280
From: hacker@cco.caltech.edu (Jonathan Bruce Hacker)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger) writes:

>In article <1993Apr15.222600.11690@research.nj.nec.com>  
>behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes:
>>  ...
>> 	Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for
>> R12.  You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning  
>Society
>> (MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per
>> retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash  
>those
>> R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very  
>shaky
>> technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst).
>>  ...

>Now, I'm not saying you're wrong because I know that the R-12 substitutes  
>exist, but this sounds a lot like the 200mpg carbs that the oil companies  
>keep us all from getting.

These substitutes exist, and at this time are available. Its the future
availability that is in doubt.

1) GHG-12

Get it from People's Welding Supply 800-382-9006


2) butane/propane  

You can mix this yourself so no one can ever regulate it away.
Just make sure you use good quality (dry) gases.


I don't know of any 200mpg carb distributors :-)
-- 
Jon Hacker                         |  Get the OS/2 2.1 March Beta CD-ROM 
Caltech, Pasadena CA               |  for $20  ---  Call 1-800-3-IBM-OS2 
hacker@tumbler-ridge.caltech.edu   |  Read about it in comp.os.os2.beta

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103281
From: nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625)
Subject: wife wants convertible


HELP!!!
my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
We live in South Fla., so we are definitely in the right are for one.
My wife has mentioned the Miata, but I think it is too small.
I would like to wait for the new Mustangs ( Dec. '93 I think).
Anyone have any opinions on any/all convertibles in a reasonable price range.

                                           Thanx

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103282
From: vinlai@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (vincent.lai)
Subject: Third party car antennas ...


Since this posting, I've received no replies or followups, so I'm posting
here hoping for the feedback I didn't get in rec.audio.car:

article number - 9855
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Path: cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com!vinlai
From: vinlai@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (vincent.lai)
Subject: Third party car antennas ...
Message-ID: <1993Apr13.202333.28657@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 20:23:33 GMT

I recently saw a particular third party antenna on a new Camry (not mine,
but it caught my interest) and a new 626.  It seems to replace the
factory power antenna and is about a foot long made of plastic tubing.  I
have seen them on quite a few cars, but I can't find anything more about
them in previous r.a.c articles nor in r.a articles.

I'd like to know all I can, so any feedback is greatly appreciated.

------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mom, we're hungry!" - Bud Bundy        "Why tell me?" - Peg Bundy

Vincent Lai

vinlai@cbnewsb.att.com forwards mail to
vlai@attmail.com which eventually winds up in
wcmnja!lai@somerset.att.com
------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103283
From: ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers)
Subject: Re: Too fast


In a previous article, tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) says:

>In article <1qh61m$b6l@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>Compare either to the Porsche 911 and you tell me which was designed
>>to go fast.

>you have a point about the brakes, especially seeing as how the
>mustang doesn't even have disc brakes in the back.  
>but there are significant differences between the latest 911s and
>the late 80's 911s, not the least of which is handling.  i'm not
          ^^

I think you mean late '60s.  The biggest change that Porsche undertook to
alter the tailhappieness of their baby was way back in August 1968 (for the
'69 model year) when they stretched the wheelbase.  Besides, some people
actually _KNOW_ how to take advantage of oversteer, and enjoy it.

>in europe.  the 911 got low marks for high speed handling (though to
>be fair, they might have been comparing it to the vette's handling).
                                                   ^^^^^

>what was that phil hill (famous race car driver) said about the
               ^^^^ ^^^^

You should have seen what Phil Hill (_*WORLD CHAMPION*_) had to say about
the Vette's he's driven. 

>911 turbo?  you can't make a thoroughbred out of a pig, but you can
>have an awful fast pig.
         ^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^

Yeah, that was what he said.  :-)

Paul Frere agreed.  They both prefered the Porsche (modified by Ruf) to
either of the Vette's at that test. 


-- 
Al Bowers  DOD #900  Alfa  Ducati  Hobie  Kottke  'blad  Iaido  NASA
"Well goodness sakes...don't you know that girls can't play guitar?"
                                             -Mary Chapin-Carpenter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103284
From: chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <1993Apr16.193553.27118@mksol.dseg.ti.com> a207706@moe.dseg.ti.com (Robert Loper) writes:
>In article <C5L8rE.28@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr15.232412.2261@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us> david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang) writes:
>>
>>I would be willing to bet that if we removed the automatic
>>transmissions from all "performance-type" cars (like the 5.0l
>>Mustangs, Camaros, and the like) we'd cut down on the number of
>>accidents each year. Autos are fine for sedate little sedans,
>>but they have no business in performance cars, IMHO.
>>
>>				James
>>
>I have to disagree with this.  I have a 92 Z28 with a 350 and a 4-speed auto
>w/ overdrive, and it is really better that way.  Chevy autos are reknowned
>for their long life and ability to handle copious amount of power.  I live 
>in the Dallas area, and a manual would be much harder to drive in the traffic 
>here.  Now if I still lived out in the sticks like I used to, a manual would be
>more fun.  
>
I don't know if it's as much an issue of their ablility to handle the
power as it is the power they lose (in the torque converter, etc).

>Safety-wise, an auto is less distracting...I would hate to have to be    
>shifting gears while I was trying to ease into traffic in the freeways here.
>Performance-wise, I can hold my own against any stock 5.0 Mustang or 5.0
>Camaro w/ a five speed.  
>
However, if you encounter a '93 Formula with 5.7L & 6-Speed Manual,
You'll be SOL, I'm afraid. ;) BTW, I know of what I speak as a former
owner of a 5.7L Auto IROC (1989) and current owner of the
aforementioned car... 
 
Chris S. 
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Silvester      | "Any man capable of getting himself elected President
chriss@sam.amgen.com |  should by no means be allowed to do the job"
chriss@netcom.com    |   - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103292
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <C5LMtr.Mo7@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Za
uberer) writes:
>>>In article <1qgi8eINNhs5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca>, yiklam@unixg.ubc.ca (Yik Chong
Lam) writes:
>>>|> Hello,
>>>|>     Does anyone know how to take out the bolt under the engine
>>>|> compartment?  Should I turn clockwise or counter?  I tried any kind
>>>|> of lubricants, WD-40,etc, but I still failed!
>>>|>     Do you think I can use a electric drill( change to a suitable
>>>|> bit ) to turn it out?  If I can succeed, can I re-tighten it not too
>>>|> tight, is it safe without oil leak?
>>>|> Thank you very much in advance------  Winson

Don't worry about leaks.  Don't worry about which way to turn the damn thing.
Take a good claw hammer and pry it straight out.  Now, you'll notice, after
all the oil pours out, that there are no theads where there used to be.

Thats why 'heli coils' were invented.  Yes, buy a few of these gems, and
rethread the hole a little larger each time you change the oil.
When the hole gets too big for any heli coil you can buy, its time to trade in
the car...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103293
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qmcih$dhs@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>They light the highways in Texas?  Funny, everywhere else I've been
>they only light 'em at junctions.

	And armadillo crossings.

>Texas is pretty much an edge-case -- you can't assume that everywhere
>has roads in such good condition, such flat terrain, and such
>wide-open spaces.  It just ain't so.

	Well, let's see, in just my own _personal_ experience there's
Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Wyoming, Utah, South Dakota, Nebraska, 
Minnesota, Montana, Florida, and parts of Louisianna.

	Nobody said "Let's go into town and drive 130 on Main St."
And you couldn't go that fast on the graveled washboard that passes
for highway in some parts.  But that "only really expensive cars should
be driven fast" crap, is, well, crap...

								wr



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103294
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

 Remember roads in America are NOT designed for speeds above 80 meaning they
would be safe at 55-65. Roads like the Autobahn are smoother, straiter,
wider and slightly banked. 

Example: A few months back I was traveling late at  night ( 3:00 am or so)
and I was changing highways at a bent crosssing. It  curved off to the south
east becoming hidden by trees after about 1,000 ft and continued to the
left strait north. I wanted to turn north, checked the south lane, rolled
into the crossing and checked the north lane. Nevertheless there wasn't 
a car in sight, so I took one last look and pulled into the left hand lane.
Now my car isn't a 5 sec 0-60 performer but I was in the corect lane and 
over 40 in decent time, even at 3:00 I wasn't wasting time. It was then
that I checked my mirror and saw a Mustang closing in my lane *FAST*, he 
had just turned the corner and was just noticing me. Luckly he saw me and 
changed lanes in time, I estamate he was moving in excess of 90 or so.
I was just a by stander, I had no chance of runing from him, or moving out 
of his way. I'm glad he saw my brake lights in time. I shudder to 
think of what would have happened had I wainted to pull out and not 
left the time he needed to dodge me.

Rule: Just because your car can do 100+, and  your way is clear,
don't assume it will stay that way.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      TRAVIS disclamer: the ideas expressed above are in fact the same as 
                        my employer, since I have none |-)
           e-mail, flame, at : marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103295
From: thorn@wam.umd.edu (Thornwall)
Subject: Q: Dings in the paint on my hood  :(


Hello,
 
I have a 92 Toyota 4X4 and in the last few weeks I have been getting quite
a few "dings" :( in the paint on the hood from rocks and debris off of the
road. I have never had any major problems with other car/trucks in the past
(maybe a ding once in a while). I went to the dealer and he said that it
happens all of the time and he recomended putting a bug deflector on the
hood. He said that the trucks, for some unknown reason, seem to have this
problem more than some cars.? 

It seems to me that either my luck is really bad or there might be a problem
with the paint (painted on a monday morning perhaps?). 
 
How well do these bug deflectors work for small road debris on trucks? 
 
If anyone has any experiences/suggestions please let me know, thanks.
 
--Greg 
 
thorn@wam.umd.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103296
From: schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: RFI:Art of clutchless shifting

I'm wondering if anybody else out there is a clutchless shifter? I've been
doing it my self over 200,000 miles, on my current toyota truck I've got
over 150k. I've heard people talk about how doing this can damage a
transmission. My experiences suggest otherwise. What techniques do you use?

On some old pieces of junk I drove, the transmission was so
worn that pumping the clutch was the only way to shift, except clutchless.
To date I've driven rabbits, datsuns, comets, fords & a chevy. Some where
harder than others to shift but generally the higher the milage the smoother
quicker & easier they where to shift.

My technique is to ease back off the throttle and at the same time gently
wrist back on the shift lever. If for some reason I miss the shift window,
I lightly press the accelerator & try agian. I've found that clutchless
shifting is eaiser/quicker at high rpms (4000-7000). I also skip gears some
times using 1-3-5 ,1-2-4-5. 

krispy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103297
From: jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

>In article <1993Apr14.140642.19875@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:
>anybody is going anywhere. So, I block the would-be passers. Not only for my own
>good , but theirs as well even though they are often too stupid to realize it.

Ah, we are looking for good people just like you. We are a very concerned
group of citizens who are absolutely disgusted at the way that the majority
of drivers simply disobey traffic rules like going above the speed limit,
passing on our right, and riding our tails, while all the while we respectfully
abide by the rules of this great country and maintain the mandated speed
limits with our calibrated, certified cruise controls, while keeping the
respectful 1.5 car length distance/10 mph speed. How many times have you been
ticked off by some moron who jumps ahead in the (5.5 * 1.5)8.25 car lengths 
that you have left between you and the vehicle ahead of you while driving
55 mph? Finally you have an option. We are a totally member supported group
that perform functions for our own good, for the good of this great country  but MOST of all for those unfortunate ones that are too stupid to realize it,
bless their souls. For a paltry $10, you can join Citizens for Rationally 
Advanced Piloting(C.R.A.P), a non-profit, members only, society. But, but,but,
there is a slight hitch, the initiation rite. To be a full fledged member of
this exclusive club, you must proof that you are able to be in the fast lane of
the busiest interstate in your area, keep the correct 1.5 car lenth/10 mph speedand I know this can be difficult with those morons around, NOT let anybody pass
you, not in the next lane, not in the slow lane, not in the breakdown lane,
not NOWHERE. For a complete list of acceptable interstates and times, send $5.
And by the way, over 90% of our members are highly regarded attorneys in the
auto field and they are completely, absolutely positively in the business ONLY
to serve your best interests. As a testament to their virtues, they will give
members 90% off the initial consultation fee. Feel free to drop me a line at
your earliest convenience and remember, only SPEED kills!

Jit





Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103298
From: cheekeen@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Desmond Chan)
Subject: Any info on Merc 300E 2.6


 
                                                      cheek.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103299
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

petebre@elof.iit.edu (BrentA. Peterson) writes:
>jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
>>jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Bald Runner") writes:

>>>I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
>>>that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
>>>will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
>>>way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
>>>100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
>>>Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
>>>there hear anything about it recently?

>>If everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but "re-
>>skinning" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications.
>>And the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job
>>of it.
>>The "new" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car.

>gee.... is it 1999 already?
>Yes, it will still be on the fox program chasis, anything that will be differe
>nt on the new car as far as mechanical's is unknown. The suspension will most
>likely be changed, as well as the drive drain. From what has been printed on
>it, there is no clear idea of what will be done, as some say it will have
>the modular V8 and others the current small block... just have to wait and see
>Also is far as styling goes from what I seen is good, a return to tradition.
>C scoop on the sides and roof line much like a '65 or '66 fastback.

You know, I'm a Ford fan, I must say, so I'm looking forward to the next
Mustang.  I have faith that it will be a fine product, more desireable
than the Camaro is now.  You know, that's MHO.  

The differences these days between Ford and GM are not so much the quality,
just the philosophy.  It used to be quality _and_ philosophy.  GM is
barely catching up, but they have more room for improvement that
can only be made up in time.  STSs still come off the assembly line
with screwed up paint stripes and poor trunk/door/hood/panel alignments;
it's those 75 year old plants.  And the latest GM products still come
with the standard equipment RattleDash (tm).  But like I said, they're
getting better and making the move in the right direction.

They beat Ford to the market with the Camaro/Firebird, but really only
in words.  Production of these vehicles will be limited until the
end of the year, keeping selling prices above MSRP for the most part
since there are so many twitching Camaro fans out there.  I wouldn't
press Ford to hurry the Mustang since the final wait could be worth it.
Besides, no bow-tie fanatic is gonna buy the Mustang anyway.

I do not put much stock in the mag rags' "inside" information, or even
Ford rep quotes.  The Taurus was pretty much a surprise when it was
finally disclosed in it's entirety.  "Inside" information had the
Taurus with a V8 and rear-wheel drive at one point.  I wouldn't look
for a simple re-paneled Mustang, folks; you may be cheating yourself
if you do.  There's a lot of potential.  Ford hasn't released a new
car without a 4-wheel IS in 7 years.  The Mustang project has been
brewing for at least 4, right?  A 4-wheel IS could happen.  Those
modular V8's are out there, too.  In the interest of CAFE and
competition, don't rule those out, either.   Your ignorant if you do.
And there are so many spy shots and artist renderings out there,
who really knows what it'll look like?  The Mach III?  Doubt it.
Highly.

The next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car.  It attracts
way more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage
is more embedded in the general public.  Don't lie to yourself and
believe Ford will forfeit that.

I submit that the Mustang will be a success.  Enough to elicit
defensive remarks from some heavy Camaro fans here.  You know,
intelligent, critical spews like, "The Mustang bites, man!"  Some of
you are already beginning.  I predict that the Mustang and Camaro
will be comparable performers, as usual.  I predict that the
differences will be in subjective areas like looks and feel, as usual.
The Camaro is still a huge automobile; the Mustang will retain its
cab-rearward styling and short, pony-car wheelbase.  The Camaro still
reaches out to the fighter pilot, while the Mustang will appeal to
the driver.  The Camaro will still sell to the muscle car set, while
the Mustang will continue to sell to the college-degreed muscle car set.
Both will be more refined (I do think the Camaro is).  There will be
no clear winner.

Unless the Ford gets the 32v, 300hp Romeo.  You don't seriously believe
that it was designed for the Mark VIII only, do you?

:^)

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103300
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:

>>i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
>>(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)

>    Then what is a "Flat-" engine???

flat = 180 deg V = horizonatlly opposed

Usually, it also equals "boxer," however, I think the term is
traditionally reserved for 8's and 12's (and firing order matters).
This was talked about here in r.a many months back; I can't remember
the consensus.

Examples:

Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer.
Porsche's 911 is a flat 6.
Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4.

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103301
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew  Infante) writes:

>>You're actually worried about somebody stealing
>>your oil?

>Ahhh yes, Andrew, we meet again...
>...no, not 'stealing' the oil, just draining it as to leave me stranded.

>>C'mon, you think a vandal'll do that?!

>Let me guess, you're from Hudson Ohio??

Hey!  What's this Hudson crap?
Actually, the only place my car has ever been broken into was in Hudson
at my in-laws (in their driveway).  Took my Vuarnets and some change.
Damn kids.

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103302
From: "Arun G. Jayakumar" <aj22+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Honda Mailing list?

Excerpts from netnews.rec.autos: 24-Apr-93 Honda Mailing list? by James
B. Atkins@prism.ga 
>         Is there a Honda mailing list, and if so how do I subscribe to it?

If you look at their magazine ads, they may have a phone number to call
and you can ask for a catalog or to be on the list, etc.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103303
From: dtorok@nynexst.com (-=$>DaveTorok<$=-)
Subject: Re: Looking for Tips for Driving Cross Country

R. Goldstein (rdg@world.std.com) sez:
: As the subject says, I am moving from Mass. to Calif. and will be driving
: mostly on Interstate 80.
: Any advice from folks who have done it before?

- Plan your gas stops in major-city areas to avoid the 25 cent-per-gallon
"only gas station for 50 miles and you're an out-of-towner" surcharge.

- Prepare your car.  Don't forget things like your fuel & air filters.  If
you're loading your car up, consider putting your spare on TOP of your stuff
just in case of a flat.  In my x-country trip, a tire disintegrated in the
California desert & it took me 20 minutes to unload all my stuff to get to
the tire.

- If you have a hatchback, cover all your stuff with a white bedsheet to help
keep the stuff and your car cool, as well as *possibly* avoiding theft.

- McDonalds have good, clean bathrooms.

- invest in a $30 CB & magnetic roof antenna.  It may help if you're stranded,
and you can always ask people for places to stop for food, etc.

- Many times police like to hang out in the 1st 10 miles after you enter a
new state, to catch all the speeders who have "escaped" the previous state.

- Same as above; when you enter a 55mph city zone after hours and hours of
65mph rural interstate

-=$>Dave<$=-

-- 
-=$>DaveTorok<$=- [torok@nynexst.com][914-644-2378][FAX:914-644-2404] JUGGLE!
NYNEX Science & Technology, 500 Westchester Ave, White Plains, NY 10604

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103304
From: mauritz_c@spcvxb.spc.edu
Subject: Weird problem with GM 4-banger transmission

I'm having an interesting problem with my girlfriend's car.  Before
I delve into its innards, I thought I'd check "net.wisdom" on the
subject. :)

It's a 1985 Buick Skyhawk (I know...I know)
2.0l EFI 4-banger
auto
35k miles

When I drive tha car long enough to get it hot (especially at
highways speeds) the transmission has this nasty habit of
getting "stuck" in 3rd gear.  As a result, when you stop for
a light the motor stalls.  Putting the car in park, and waiting
for 30-60 seconds before restarting sometimes allows the transmission
to "reset" and go back into 1st.  Otherwise, it just stalls when
put in drive.  

My thoughts:  Either it the 3rd gear band is binding and getting
stuck when it gets hot (not so likely) or perhaps the lock-up
converter is not disengaging properly (seems likely).  The least
likely (keeping fingers crossed) is that some critical vacuum
hose has broken/cracked and this behaviour is due to lack of
vaccuum somewhere (as used to happen with old modulator valves).

My background is that my father owns a service station and
I worked there on and off from 10-19 years of age.  Please
feel free to be as technical as you want. :)

I'd appreciate hearing any tips/suggestions/offers of free
beer. <grin>

Skoal,

Chris

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103306
From: mani@raunvis.hi.is (M'ani Thorsteinsson)
Subject: Lois Chevrolet?


        I was whatching The History Of The Indy 500 the other day,
and early in the film, around the '10-'20's, a name, Lois Chevrolet,
came out of the blue. I wanted to know if he is THE Chevrolet founder
or mearly a driver who's name was called the same as the other guy's?:^)

                                                KONI.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103307
From: sgs1679@ucs.usl.edu (Sudhindranath Sira G)
Subject: HELP!!!! (Mercury Capri Query).

Hi Folks,

I recently bought a 1981 Mercury Capri (my first car ever!).
I have noticed a few problems with the car :

	1. It gives very low gas mileage (something like
           11 miles / gallon ; I hear other car owners speak of
           gas-mileage figures like 25 miles/gallon (wow!) etc.).

	2. When I start the car, it goes into high idling (something
           like 1500 (or is it 15000 ?) rpm. After driving 4 or 5 miles, 
           it comes down to 300 (or 3000?) rpm. 

I would like to know if there is any way by which I can fix these
problems. Or is it natural for an old car like this ? (it has
done about 117,000 miles). Someone suggested that I change/rebuild/
recondition the carburettor. I am not prepared to do it
unless I am sure it will fix the problem. And yes, I got the
car tuned-up recently (within the last 200 miles or so).

Please let me know if you have any suggestions. Please respond
by email since I don't scan this newsgroup regularly.

Thanks.

Regards,

--Sudhi.

-- 
Sira Gopinath Sudhindranath. email : sudhi@ucs.usl.edu.

"Is he one of us or is he one of them ?" ---- so ask small-minded men.
Those of noble mind think the entire world as their family. [Hitopadesha]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103308
From: sehrlich@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Scott R. Ehrlich)
Subject: Help find Stolen Car


I offered to relay this information for a ham friend of mine without
Internet access:

His name is Robert (Bob) Wondolowski, N1KDA, and his car was a 
1985 Brown Cutlas Sierra Sedan, Massachusetts plate 716ADL.

His HT (Yaesu FT415) and mobile antenna were also included in the car.
It was stolen from Lynn, Mass. about 10 days ago (being on April 6).

If anyone has any information about the car's whereabouts, please e-mail
me.

Thank you for taking the time to read this message.


===============================================================================
| Scott Ehrlich 	       Internet: wy1z@world.std.com                   |
| Amateur Radio: wy1z          Packet Radio: wy1z@k1ugm.ma.usa.na	      |
===============================================================================
-- 
===============================================================================
| Scott Ehrlich 	       Internet: wy1z@world.std.com                   |
| Amateur Radio: wy1z          Packet Radio: wy1z@k1ugm.ma.usa.na	      |
===============================================================================

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103309
From: plkg_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Paul K. Gloger)
Subject: Subaru Shop manuals for sale


o Subaru Service Manuals ................................... $10.00
     This is not a complete set, but includes sections 4, 5 
     & 6 which cover MECHANICAL COMPONENTS (suspension, wheels 
     & axles, steering, brakes, pedals & control cables, heater 
     & ventilator, air conditioning), BODY (body & exterior, 
     doors & windows, seats, seat belts, interior, instrument 
     panel), and ELECTRICAL (engine electrical system, body 
     electrical system, wiring diagram, and trouble-shooting). 
     These are the genuine Subaru issue manuals.  They are for 
     model year 1986, but have plenty of good information that 
     applies to other years as well.


And, as long as I'm posting (end of car stuff),

o Miscellaneous Darkroom Equipment ........................ $75.00
     Solar enlarger (several objective lenses) with easel and 
     timer, negative carriers for 35mm and 2 1/4 x 3 1/4, misc.
     printing masks.  Developing tanks, thermometer, trays, 
     constant-temperature bath, ground glass, mirrors, darkroom
     lamps, glassware, el-cheap-o tripods..... and (as they say)
                             MUCH   MORE!


o Beautiful Antique Buffet ............................... $1500.00
     Solid cherry (no veneer).  Handmade, with very interesting
     dovetail corners in the drawers.  Built (we think) around 
     1880.  Not gaudy or covered with gew-gaws; a simple, elegant 
     piece of furniture, but too big (60" long, 37" tall, 24" 
     deep) for our little Cape Cod house.


Will deliver pricier items (ie, over $10) anywhere in the Rochester 
area.  (And will consider delivering the others.)  Will deliver any 
of it on UofR Campus between now and graduation.

Call or E-Mail:   Paul or Mary 
                  (716) 359-2350  (Just south of Rochester, NY)
                  plkg_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103310
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <1993Apr22.195519.11104@convex.com> tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:
>
>Better still, years ago they demonstrated a cold air system which only used
>"air". It was called a Rovax. The unit worked very well, the short coming
>was the seal technology. Where is it today?

Actually the company, and the product was ROVAC - which stood for
ROTary Air Conditioning..it used a rotary compressor with what
was effectively an air/air heat exchanger, and worked pretty well.
The negatives were mostly that it was about 5-10% less efficient than
using freon, and noise problems from the high velocity/pressure air,
all of which were solved by the time the company went bankrupt.  It
is still a legal entity in Florida, but I believe completely "dead"..
and there's a heck of an opurtunity to buy up it's patents and restart
the operation...


-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103311
From: sdexter@shl.com (Scott Dexter)
Subject: Isuzu Amigo opinions wanted....



Is there anyone out there in NetLand that has/has had one of these?


Can someone give me a non-Consumer Reports review (or point me to a source) ???


Thanks
Scott

-----------------------
sdexter@ucrengr.ucr.edu
	Computer Science Undergraduate,
	University of California, Riverside
	Internet :  138.23.166.21

sdexter@technet1.shl.com       
  	 Facilities Engineer,
	 SHL SystemHouse, Inc. ,Technology Network
         Internet : 192.75.61.2

	" You say its gonna happen "now"
	  What exactly do you mean?
	  You see I've already waited too long,
	  And all my hope is gone "
					- The Smiths

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103312
From: khalsa@spartanSanDiego.NCR.com (G.K. Khalsa)
Subject: Re: Options that would be great to have...

In article <93Apr16.185510.36600@acs.ucalgary.ca>, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca
(Charles Parr) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> A list of options that would be useful. They can be existing
> options on a car, or things you'd like to have...
> 
> 1) Tripmeter, great little gadget. Lets you keep rough track of
>    mileage, makes a good second guesser for your gas gauge...
> 
> 2) Full size spare
> 
> 3) Built in mountings and power systems for radar detectors.
> 
> 4) a fitting that allows you to generate household current with
> the engine running, and plug ins in the trunk, engine compartment
> and cabin.
> 
> Feel free to add on...

OK...

5) How about a fuel gauge that *really* told you how much fuel was
   left.  Like, "can I make it to where the gas is $1.14 or should
   I get gouged right here at $1.35?"  Accurate to the tenth of a
   gallon would be great.

...............................................................
|                    |   On Contract To:                      |
|     GK Khalsa      |      NCR Engineering and Manufacturing |
|....................|      16550 W. Bernardo Dr.             |
|  (619) 485-2460    |      San Diego, CA 92127               |
!....................!........................................!
!.................g.k.khalsa@sandiego.ncr.com.................!


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103313
From: dhepner@cup.hp.com (Dan Hepner)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?


From: nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan)

>But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
>something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
>diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
>install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
>of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
>different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
>since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
>gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...

The technology Cummins is applying to diesels to comply with
the newer Ca. emissions laws involves three things I know of:

1. All compliant diesels are turbocharged.
2. All use an "aftercooler", which cools the air which was heated
   by compression by the turbocharger (up to about 25 PSI).
3. A gismo on the injector pump which senses the pressurized air
   intake, and limits full delivery of fuel while the pressure is
   low.

No scrubbers, catalytic converters, etc, are used.  The path from
the turbocharger to the exhaust outlet is kept very free.

Interestingly, except for the low-pressure fuel limitation, power output 
and mileage are enhanced by these measures.  One can buy aftermarket
turbos and aftercoolers which generate more power, lots more power,
and these are approved by the CARB.

Dan Hepner

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103314
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: Honda clutch chatter.

In article <185900002@hpindda.cup.hp.com> jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) writes:


> From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 23:08:56 GMT
> Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
> Path: eclipse!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpcss01!hpindda!jimb
> Newsgroups: rec.autos
> References: <185900001@hpindda.cup.hp.com>
> Lines: 16
> 
> It's nice to know that I'm not alone out there when it comes to clutch, etc
> problems on late model Hondas.  If I get a few more supportive responses
> I will take them to my local Honda dealer or maybe send them to the regional
> rep in Southern Calif. for their input on the problem.  Maybe some group
> pressure from Honda owners can be placed on Honda to find a solution, such
> as a retrofit of the clutch?? 
> 
> Or, maybe I'll just sell the blasted vehicle and go back to driving my 10
> year old pick-up which was (now fixed) having clutch problems and caused me
> to look for what I thought would be a trouble-free solution. Ya sure. Not
> to put down Honda or anything - the Accord has performed flawlessly in all
> other areas for its 16,000 miles.
> 
> As it is said "out of all this something will develop!"
> 
> Later folks.

Not alone at all. My old 83 Accord (now in the hands of a sibling) has a much
better engagement of the clutch. Even the old 84 Civic we keep as a beater 
feels better in this aspect. Note that these are cars with 250,000 kms and
140,000 kms respectively. My 90 Prelude blows both of them away in every 
respect except smooth clutch engagement. Of course the Kawasaki is the best
of the bunch but I need more than 2 wheels most of the time.

The Prelude has had a dud clutch from day 1, and after three years and 67,000
kms is no better. Best of luck and feel free to add this to your collection.

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103315
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: Changing brake fluid..is it necessary..

In article <1993Apr23.163129.53125@gmuvax.gmu.edu> lcarr@gmuvax.gmu.edu writes:


> Hi.
>  I've been seeing all these articles about changing
> brake fluid and I am wondering if this is really necessary.
> I have an 86 Toyota Corolla SR5, with 94000 and I am in the

Only if you want to stop. Seriously though, every 2 years you should
have this done. Brake fluid absorbs water over time, the water becomes
steam when the fluid gets hot, and steam compresses. You'll also have
better luck with the longevity of master cylinder, calipers and brake
lines.

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103316
From: "Rajeev T. Chellapilla" <rc4u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: MBenz&Bmw Question

When do the new M.benz "C" class cars come out?
The new nomenclature that MB has adopted will it only apply to the "c"
class cars or will it also apply to the current "s" class cars.
Does any one know what will replace the current 300 class since the "c"
class will be smaller and more in line with the current 190. 
Another question, Is BMW realising a new body style on the current 7
series and 5 series. They seem to be a bit dated to me.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103317
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: horizontally opposed/boxer engines (was: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr24.125621.7311@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
>There are two crank configurations for
>the flat 4; the most common one is probably the crank that is very
>similar to the I4 crank.

which flat 4 engines have I4 style cranks?

>  Comparing those two engines, the I4 and the
>flat 4 have no first order shaking forces or rocking moments.  The
>I4 has a second order shaking force, while the flat 4 has a second
>order rocking moment.  The significant thing about the flat 4's
>second order moment is that it can be easily balanced out by adding
>mass at the ends of the crank.  The I4, however, requires a counter
>rotating shaft with mass to balance out the second order forces.

i am 99.99% sure that subaru (and porsche) use the boxer configuration
and not the inline 4 crank that you analyzed and compared. would you
care to re-evaluate the other case of a flat four?  i think that this
configuration is perfectly balanced as far as primary, secondary
forces and couples are concerned.  i have an article in front of me
that says so.

>Bottom line:  the biggest difference between the engines would probably
>be their intended use.  The flat 4 is easier to fit under low hoods
>and in rear compartments (for mid or rear mounting).  The I4 can be
>mounted transversely to reduce hood length (read: cab forward).
>Other than that, there isn't much fanfare to the differences between
>them, no matter what Subaru ads say.  (Technology shared with
>Porsche.  Indeed.)

the flat four is also shorter than an inline 4, so even if it is mounted
longitudinally it will not take up lots of length.. and a longitudinal
placement is easier for a 4 wheel drive drivetrain.

i think that subaru's ads hold water.  in practice, their flat fours
are noticeably smoother than inline 4s and completely buzz free,
though some may not like its peculiar note.  but as alfa has shown, a
boxer four can produce a spine tingling scream that only the likes of
recent hondas can approach.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103318
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <pebi.735631265@zephyr.aem.umn.edu> pebi@aem.umn.edu (Peter A. Bidian) writes:


> There is another advantage with manuals. You can start the car by pushing it
> and shifting into second gear. This doesn't work with an automatic.
> 
> Peter
> 

Just for the record, read your owner's manual before attempting a push start.
Most manufacturers today do not recommend this (I think the catalytic converter
is the primary reason - unburned gas goes down to it and may ignite when
the converter gets into its operating range).

The best reason for a manual? Because you like to drive one. I find that its
much easier to develop lazy habits in an auto trans car. Remember, pay 
attention out there - stupidity behind the wheel has still taken more people
to the morgue than drunk driving. The problem is that we don't revoke peoples
license for stupidity.

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103319
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr24.150653.8115@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:


> 
> flat = 180 deg V = horizonatlly opposed
> 
> Usually, it also equals "boxer," however, I think the term is
> traditionally reserved for 8's and 12's (and firing order matters).
> This was talked about here in r.a many months back; I can't remember
> the consensus.
> 
> Examples:
> 
> Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer.
> Porsche's 911 is a flat 6.
> Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brian
> 
BMWs boxer twin! (no two wheelers here?) Been around since 1923. I think the
other examples are Johnny come latelies... I may be wrong so no flames please..

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103320
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr24.150653.8115@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
>Examples:
>
>Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer.
>Porsche's 911 is a flat 6.
>Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4.

i think you got it the other way round: the Ferrari flat 12 is a 180
degree v12 and not a "true" boxer, while the subaru and porsche are
true boxers.  don't know about the vw bug though, but i suspect that
it is also a true boxer.

eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103321
From: glouie@oasys.dt.navy.mil (George Louie)
Subject: Pennsylvania Insurance, Limited Tort Option

Hey all,


I'm looking at buying a new car, but I'm confused about the insurance
coverage.  This also applies to my existing car insurance policy.  Does
anyone understand what the "Limited Tort Option" means.  Will it lower
my rates if I opt to have it, or will it be more expensive if I opt
to have it?  What does it do for me (in layman's terms please)?  Is
it a good deal or should I ignore it?  I'm not the type to sue anyone
at a drop of the hat nor am I the type to report every little ding to
the insurance company as a vandalism claim.  Please help.



Thanks in advance.


George

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103322
From: newton@convex.com (Vicki Newton)
Subject: seeking recommendations for new car purchase

folks,

i am going to be purchasing a new vehicle in the next few months.  i
am trying to hold out until the fall since i have heard that i can
be in a better negotiating position to purchase a '93 right when the
'94s are coming out.  i need something that can comfortably carry
2 adults, 2 kids in car seats, and 2 60-pound dogs.  i can probably
afford something in the 14k-16k range.  i am interested in the SUV's
but am not sure there are any that are decent which i can afford.
i think the ford explorer got good reviews from consumer reports but
is above my $$$ range.  the isuzu rodeo is probably in my price range
but i think consumer reports gave it a big thumbs down.  can anyone
offer any suggestions?  i am hoping for something a little more hip
than the traditional wagon, and the SUVs look like fun (we do a lot of
camping too).

veek


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103323
From: brandt@cs.unc.edu (Andrew Brandt)
Subject: 4Runner and Pathfinder recent changes.

I am interested in finding out how the 4Runner and Pathfinder have
been updated in the past few years.  Like new engine, suspension and
the like.  I noticed that the 1993 and 1992 4Runners are identical,
for example, and was looking into buying a used one.

Any info would be appreciated, esp. models/years to check out or
avoid.

Thx, Andy (brandt@cs.unc.edu)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103325
From: oprsfnx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Stephen F. Nicholas)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

daubendr@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Darren R Daubenspeck) writes:


>> they are pretty much junk, stay away from them.  they will be replaced next
>> year with all new models.  


>Junk?  They've made the C&D lists for years due to their excellent handling and  
>acceleration.  They have been around since about, oh, 85 or 86, so they're not  
>the newest on the lot, and mileage is about five to eight MPG under the class  
>leader.  You can get into a 3.0 L v-6 (141 hp) Shadow for $10~11K (the I-4  
>turbo a bit more), and a droptop for $14~15K.  


 As an ex-Fleet Mgr. of 3000 cars, they were amoung the most trouble free of
all models.  I bought one for my wife.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103326
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector ???

In article <1993Apr10.013011.808@lrc.edu>, burnside_br@lrc.edu writes:
>In article <1993Apr6.225034.7184@opencon.com>, giand@opencon.com (Deepak S. Gia
nchandani) writes:
>> Mubashir Cheema:
>>
>>      Don't buy one, that is the best way to avoid tickets,
>>      I used to have one and whenever a cop would pull me over, see
>>      the thing, give me a ticket.  One time my sister was driving,
>>      and had it in the glove compartment, it was broken, and she
>>      got a ticket.  In 1987, I had received 4 tickets because of
>>      it, one for my sister (so a total of five).
>>
>>      That was five years ago, now I don't have one and Have not
>>      gotten a ticket.  My driving habits have not changed
>>      drastically.  Only two days ago I was going 77 MPH on Highway
>>      with 55 MPH limit, cop saw me, I break a little, nothing
>>      happened (I was driving a Mini-Van, with my family in it).
>>      Otherwise, I have Cutlass Supreme,  which I do 70 most of the
>>      times on the highway.
>>
>>      So basically my opnion is not to get one, if you do get pulled
>>      over, The cop will hear your excuse, but if you have a radar
>>      detecter, he will NOT. (again, this has been my experienc
>
>
>Just get a remote model that is not visible to the cop.  But, be sure to get
>front AND rear sensors...
>
You can also just put the detector off to the side on the dash so the cop
doesn't see it right away...Valentine is the best detector by far (as stated
by Car and Driver) and even tells you what direction the radar is coming from.
 It also gives the amount of "threats" it is picking up, so if you go through
 the same place everyday, and it always goes off there, you can glance at the
 number of "threats" the Valentine is detecting to see if it is a genuine cop.
  It's about $300 and you can only get it factory direct..one problem.
                                            Rob Fusi
                                            rwf2@lehigh.edu
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103327
From: asbestos@nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson)
Subject: For Sale in Evanston, IL: one car


For sale:

1981 Oldsmobile Omega four door.  Gray, power windows, power steering,
power brakes, remote trunk release.  Starts reliably and runs well,
but needs some work.  $400 obo.

For details, email or (708)864-0526.
-- 
Michael A. Atkinson    | There is no try, there is only Dew.
asbestos@nwu.edu       | 
                         
            A Libertarian and an NRA member.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103328
From: smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <Apr21.053718.19765@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:

>if the noise really bugs you, there is nothing else that you can do
>except to sell it and get a V6.

Perhaps a nice used '88 Pontiac Fiero GT?  2.8 liters.

Does anyone know if the motor mounts for the 2.8 and the twin-dual-cam 3.4
liter match?  The 3.4 is supposedly derived from the pushrod 3.1, which was
a punched out 2.8 liter.  Should be a drop-in replacement, eh?  205 horses in
a mid-engine the size of a Fiero?

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want,
it is the freedom to do whatever we are able.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103329
From: troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

RADAR (Radio Association Defending Airwave Rights) says that Geico
insurance not only buy's Radar for police but also actively lobbies
states to promote making Radar Detectors illegal.   I think the
buying part is a misuse of money but the Radar Detector part shows
how little they know about the issue.  No study I am aware of has ever
concluded that detectors have a negative impact on safety or that
users have a higher average speed.  Incompetence by Geico?  I think
so.


Troy Wecker
troy@sequent.com
Sequent Computer Systems
Beaverton, OR


In article <1993Apr21.171811.25933@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
>
>I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
>guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103330
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: Most bang for $13k

In article <23056.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>, david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (Da
vid Bonds) writes:
>In rec.autos, CPKJP@vm.cc.latech.edu (Kevin Parker) writes:
> I'd like to get some feedback on a car with most bang for the buck in the
> $13000 to 16,000 price range. I'm looking for a car with enough civility to be
> driven every day, or even on long trips, but when I hit the gas, I want to fee
l
>
>Take a look at a '91 Taurus SHO - they can be found for ~13k, and are the
>ultimate in 4 door sports cars.  Performance similar to a Mustang, but
>quite civil and comfortable...  Try to get a late model 91 for the better
>shifter.
>
>

>----
>The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us)   A PCBoard 14.5a system
>Houston, Texas, USA   +1.713.466.1525          running uuPCB

>Well, you could always go with a 5.0 Mustang LX with a pleasant V8, but the
diamond star cars (Talon/Eclipse/Laser) put out 190 hp in the turbo models,
and 195 hp in the AWD turbo models,  These cars also have handling to match
the muscle, and are civil in regular driving conditions, rather than having a
harsh, stiff ride....The AWD Turbo is clearly the better choice of the two
(because of all that torque steer on the front drive model), but you may have
to go with a leftover or "slightly" used model for that price range....tough
decision...

        Rob Fusi
        rwf2@lehigh.edu

-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103331
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <Apr21.053718.19765@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>In article <1r1vofINN871@usenet.pa.dec.com> tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!) writes:
>>	Are there any MR2 owners or motor-head gurus out there, that know why
>>my MR2's engine sounds noisy? The MR2's engine is noisy at the best of times, 
>>but not even a nice nose - it's one of those very ugly noises. 
>
>assuming yours is a non turbo MR2, the gruffness is characteristic of
>a large inline 4 that doesn't have balance shafts.  i guess toyota
>didn't care about "little" details like that when they can brag about
>the mid engine configuration and the flashy styling.
>
>myself, i automatically cross out any car from consideration (or
>recommendation) which has an inline 4 larger than 2 liters and no
>balance shafts..  it is a good rule of thumb to keep in mind if you
>ever want a halfway decent engine.  
>
>if the noise really bugs you, there is nothing else that you can do
>except to sell it and get a V6.
>
>
>eliot

Eliot is right about 2.2 liter engine in the second (and last) generation
MR2's. But the original guy did not indicate the year of his MR2. If it's a
first generation car (like my '85), it has 1.6 liter engine (or perhaps
same engine with a supercharger, if it's '87 -'89).
The sound he describes is common to any older Toyota engine I ever heard.
I don't know the relevance of his observations about oil changes, my simply
makes noise. Not all that annoying, mind you. But you hear it well when the
engine is right behind your left ear :-)
Mike.S

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103332
From: jes@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (john schultz)
Subject: Re: Opinions on 88-89 Pontiac Bonneville

In article <C5uLLq.Ds@acsu.buffalo.edu> v064mb9k@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (NEIL B. GANDLER) writes:
>
>
>  I am in the market to buy a used car. I am particularly
>interested in the Pontiac Bonneville. My budget is between 7-
>8 thousand. Would I be able to afford an 88 or 89. What
>engines were available at this time. I know they didn't
>redesign until the 1992 model year. How is the reliability of
>past models. I would appreciate any advice or information.
>
>                  Neil Gandler

In a word, yes.

1989 Bonnevilles prices (avg. retail):

	Sedan 4D LE       $  7,125
	Sedan 4D SE       $  8,125
	Sedan 4D SSE      $ 10,975



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103333
From: tgardner@athena.mit.edu (Timothy J Gardner)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <1993Apr24.145353.8006@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:

On the subject of the upcoming new Mustang:

>I do not put much stock in the mag rags' "inside" information, or even
>Ford rep quotes.  The Taurus was pretty much a surprise when it was
>finally disclosed in it's entirety.  "Inside" information had the
>Taurus with a V8 and rear-wheel drive at one point.  I wouldn't look
>for a simple re-paneled Mustang, folks; you may be cheating yourself
>if you do.  There's a lot of potential.  Ford hasn't released a new
>car without a 4-wheel IS in 7 years.  The Mustang project has been
>brewing for at least 4, right?  A 4-wheel IS could happen.  Those
>modular V8's are out there, too.  In the interest of CAFE and
>competition, don't rule those out, either.   Your ignorant if you do.
>And there are so many spy shots and artist renderings out there,
>who really knows what it'll look like?  The Mach III?  Doubt it.
>Highly.
>
>The next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car.  It attracts
>way more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage
>is more embedded in the general public.  Don't lie to yourself and
>believe Ford will forfeit that.


The car magazines have printed a lot of information about the new Mustang
and the consensus about what to believe in my "car circle" is that the 
suspension pieces and tuning will be almost identical to the current
Cobra, but on a stiffer body structure which will improve its behavior.
After the MN12 (Thunderbird) cost and weight debacle, Ford decided 
independent rear suspension with rear wheel drive won't be tried again in 
a volume car.  

The current 4.9l V-8 will soldier on for about two years.  A version of
the 32 valve modular V-8 in the Mark VIII could be offered then.  Ford
is spending big money tooling up for 2.5l and 3.5l V-6 engines which will
power most of their cars in the immediate future, and therefore probably
do not consider volume production of 300 hp V-8 engines a priority. 

Undisguised, the car looks OK, but not nearly as exciting as the new
Camaro/Firebird, IMO.  

I suspect Ford will produce their car with higher quality than GM will 
achieve with the Camaro/ Firebird.  The way GM loses money, the temptation
to "just get them out the door" for the sake of positive cash flow will be 
great once demand really takes off.  

Tim Gardner  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103334
From: jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:

> In article <1993Apr22.192652.3032@virginia.edu> jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blad
> >I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
> >that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
> >will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
> >way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
> >100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
> >Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
> >there hear anything about it recently?
> 
> 
> If everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but "re-
> skinning" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications.
> And the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job
> of it.  
> 
> The "new" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car.
> 
> 
> 

I just saw a picture of the '94 Mustang in Popular Mechanics - what 
a disappointment after being bombarded with pictures of the Mach III...

jp

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103335
From: C465353@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Jim Struglia)
Subject: Michelin TRX tires--info needed

Hi all,
I have available to me a set of Metric wheels (came off a Mustang or T-Bird)
which are wearing nearly-bald Michelin TRX 220-55R390 tires.  The only place
I have found these tires is the Tire Rack mailorder place for $121 a pop.
Is there a cheaper source, or another manufacturer of this size tire?  Thanks
for any info...please E-Mail responses and I will post a summary if there is
any interest.
 
     JAS
 
JIM STRUGLIA   C465353@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU
 
               C465353@MIZZOU1.BITNET
 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103336
From: steve@ipecac.wpd.sgi.com (Uncle Wiggily in Connecticut)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?

In <1r3n32INNk9p@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) writes:

>In article <1993Apr21.032905.29286@reed.edu>, rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr20.174246.14375@wam.umd.edu> lerxst@wam.umd.edu (where's my  thing) writes:
>>> It was called a Bricklin.

>>Bricklins were manufactured in the 70s with engines from Ford.

>Waitaminnit, didn't the Bricklin have an Pugeot six-cylinder?  Or am I
>confusing it with the DeLorean?  I was sure the DeLorean had a v8.

The Delorean used the Peugot/Renault/Volvo V6 in a rear engine configuration.
The Bricklin use some 'Merkin iron in a front engine/rear drive configuration.

--
steve valin		steve@sgi.com
	I've just had my brain washed and I can't do a thing with it

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103337
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <C5uI6u.Ao0@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.171811.25933@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>>
>>In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>>>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>>>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>>>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>>>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
>>
>>I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
>>guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).
>
>
>Geico has purchased radar guns in several states, I know they have done
>it here in CT.
>
>I have also heard horror stories about people that have been insured by Geico
>for years and then had 1 accident and were immediately dropped.  And once
>you've been dropped by any insruance company you become labled a high
>risk, and end up forking out 3 or 4 times what you should be for insurance.

This must vary from state to state, because our old company Kemper wanted
to drop me (keeping my wife) or tripple our premium because i had 1 ticket.
Only 2 points for 10 mph over speed limit.  Well i called Geico, and they
insured both my wife and i for less then we were previously paying
Kemper.

Generally i hate the whole insurance game. I realize that it is necessary
but the way that a person can get dicked around doesn't make any sense.

One good thing about Geico is that everything can be handled over
the phone.


>
>My suggestion, stay where you are, or shop around but STAY AWAY from Geico!
>
>Jeff
>
>

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103338
From: amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <1993Apr15.155325.6329@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, nancy@hayduke (Nancy
 Feagans) writes:
>Ashtrays and cigarette lighters.  These should be an *option*.
>
>--
>
>Nancy J. Feagans     (818) 306-6423
>Jet Propulsion Lab   nancy@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
>"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."
>

You forget that the cigarette lighter plug is essential for plugging in radar
detectors and lights. The ashtrays are also essential because they are great
places to keep change and tokens.
Al H.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103339
From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate)
Subject: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?


  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
have v engines.

V4 - I don't know of any.
V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
V8 - Don't know of any.
V12 - Jaguar XJS


 Please add to the list.


 Thanks,
 -S
 ssave@ole.cdac.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103340
From: ah301@yfn.ysu.edu (Jerry Sy)
Subject: are Ford shop manuals good ?


I am planning on buying a repair manual for my ford taurus. (92).
Is the $53 Ford shop manual comprehensive  enough , covering repairs
in all aspects of the car ?



how about the haynes manual for tarus ?

please email replies if possible.

thanks in advance.
jerry


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103341
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important? 

In article <CONRADIE.49.735390036@firga.sun.ac.za> CONRADIE@firga.sun.ac.za (Gerrit Conradie) writes:

[Much discussion about economics of safety deleted]

>Safety is an important criterium for me when buying a car. I won't buy a 
>small car like a Civic or whatever.
>
>Great = Safety + Handling + Speed  -  for me
>
>Seems to me that you would be more "dead" in a small car than a large car 
>after an accident.

This is a very simplistic view of safety. Assuming that you are in a collision
(less likely with a more agile smaller car), then the important factor
is how well does the car sacrifice itself to save you. This is why a thousand
pound F1 car can hit a wall at 200 and the driver walks out and why
everybody dies when a Suburban hits a wall at 35 (as I recall for the last
generation Suburban HIC numbers). 

As an aside, just what is the point of an airbag? It seems to me that
seatbelts with pretensioners (Audi et al), or a good tight 5 point belt 
will prevent you every moving far enough to hit the airbag. You might be

saved from some flyign glass? Or is an airbag just a lowest common denominator
safety device that is of some use in a head on collision when you are
wearing no seat belt? 

Craig
>
>- gerrit
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103342
From: ae045@Freenet.carleton.ca (Mike Harker)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?


You guys are correct.  The Bricklin was produced in Canada.
The National Museum of Science and Technology here in Ottawa
has one, and sometimes they put it on display.  Most of the time,
it stays in storage because the museum doesn't have much room.
It's a big deal for a car to be Canadian and that's why they 
have it.  If anybody's a fan, they also have a nice green '73
Riviera that looks like it just came out of the showroom.
-- 
MIKE HARKER
OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA
VOICE: 613-823-6757
-- 
Paul Tomblin (formerly pt@geovision.gvc.com)
Sven's Law: There's exceptions to every law (except this one)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103343
From: v064mb9k@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (NEIL B. GANDLER)
Subject: Need info on 88-89 Bonneville


 I am a little confused on all of the models of the 88-89 bonnevilles.
I have heard of the LE SE LSE SSE SSEI. Could someone tell me the
differences are far as features or performance. I am also curious to
know what the book value is for prefereably the 89 model. And how much
less than book value can you usually get them for. In other words how
much are they in demand this time of year. I have heard that the mid-spring
early summer is the best time to buy.

			Neil Gandler

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103344
From: cerulean@access.digex.com (Bill Christens-Barry)
Subject: 2 Camrys eating clutch master cyls?

I have both an '84 and an '86 Camry, each with manual 5-speed transmissions.
The '84 has about 105,000 miles on it and the '86 about 83,000 miles.  ABout
a year ago I found that the master cylinder on the clutch in the '84 was        
leaking fluid around the piston seal, leading to air in the system and fluid
back into the passenger compartment of the car.  I pulled the plunger and
got a rebuild kit (new plunger, seal, etc.) and thought I had the problem
licked.  Much to my surprise, the same problem developed several months
later!  This time I looked carefully at the master cylinder to make sure
there were no scratches, burrs, or other obvious causes of the problem.  I
didn't find any.  Ever since I have been periodically feeding the clutch
hydraulins additional fluid and bleeding air from the system.  I knew I
would be selling the car and didn't want to go all the way to solving the
problem.

I should add that the clutch is original, and that I've had to adjust the
pedal to allow maximum extension of the piston into the master cylinder in
order to actuate the clutch.

My hypothesis is that this means that when fully depressing the clutch pedal,
the angle of the piston rod (attached to the pedal) is off the axix of the
cylinder, thus cocking the piston and seal and perhaps deforming it.

What do you think of that as an explanation?  Can you suggest a possible fix
short of replacing the master cylinder and getting a new clutch put in?

Now the '86: same problem, except that the above diagnosis doesn't explain
why all of the fluid leaked out (by way of the master cylinder, into the
passenger compartment) while I was on vacation for 10 days, during which
the clutch pedal was not depressed or otherwise caused to distort.  What
can you suggest here?

Many thanks.  Let's hope I don't end up going to Click and Clack on this...

Bill Christens-Barry
cerulean@access.digex.com


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103345
From: gkirkaldie@sanity.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (George Kirkaldie)
Subject: Re: birds - are they physics majors?

In <C5pn2p.L44@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>, Operator writes:
}Crazy question: "Anyone ever wonder how birds can drop a load on a car
}going over 65 MPH" ?  
}
}I took a non-stop trip, got shitted on FOUR times (every time hitting the 
}windshield, not even the open sunroof!  Guess we have conscientious birds ;)
}Was going 75 MPH.
}
}

I used to have a '67 Galaxie convertible, was sitting at a light waiting
for it to turn green. It turned green, but I hesitated a little (sleeping I
guess) and a bird bombed me, it landed directly in front of me at eye
level, I guess the bird miscalculated and thought I was going to take off
right away.

And I'm still trying to figure out the one I got under my rear bumper as
well ?!?!?! Was the bird flying up and doing fancy acrobatics at my car and
decided to drop one while executing a perfect loop??

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  TT030   |'87 Mustang GT         |George Kirkaldie
   |||    |Pioneer, Audio Control |gkirkaldie@sanity.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
   |||    |Phoenix Gold, Kicker   |
  / | \   |Flowmaster, Motorsport |Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
A T A R I |                       |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103346
From: heiser@acs2.bu.edu (Bill Heiser)
Subject: Auto WAX

Having recently purchased a 93 Probe with clear-coat paint, I 
would like to give it a good wax job.  What is the Best type of
wax to use for this type of finish?  Is paste or liquid better?
I would be waxing it by hand, and buffing it by hand, I guess
using cheesecloth to buff it (anything better you would suggest?).

I've heard comments here before about things like Turtle Wax
and Raindance not being very good, so I'm wondering what is
recommended for a quality finish.

Thanks in advance.
Bill

-- 
Bill Heiser    heiser@acs.bu.edu, heiser@world.std.com
               Boston University, Boston MA   

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103347
From: mcrosbie@batman.bmd.trw.com
Subject: Any Syclone or Typhoon owners out there?

I want to start of list for Syclone and Typhoon owners.  If you are interested
in participating, please contact me via e-mail.

Merrill

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103348
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <1993Apr21.204521.21182@ultb.isc.rit.edu> adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>The sound he describes is common to any older Toyota engine I ever heard.
>I don't know the relevance of his observations about oil changes, my simply
>makes noise. Not all that annoying, mind you. But you hear it well when the
>engine is right behind your left ear :-)

i think those with 1.6 MR2's would describe the engine as sweet if a
little loud, those with 2.2 MR2's i can't imagine any unbiased person
paying it any compliments.  sounded like my ex-dormmate's rusty chevy
chevette.  with the 1.6 i would want to redline it just for the music,
with the 2.2 i would short shift so that it would shut up..  the new
camry 2.2 features balance shafts.  i guess since the mr2 is getting
the axe, it is too late for them to do anything about this..

it is no mystery that the turbo mr2 is "only" 2 liters.. the engineers
had enough integrity to prevent any further abuses.  also, in europe
the MR2 Mk2 non-turbo was also "only" 2 liters.. as usual, the
undiscriminating american market (if it is japanese it *must* be good)
gets the dogs.. to be fair, we also got the turbo, which the europeans
did not.



eliot



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103349
From: heiser@acs2.bu.edu (Bill Heiser)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT)

In article <1993Apr20.124228.5357@ncsu.edu> chuck@eos.ncsu.edu (Chuck Kesler) writes:
>>"Jeremy G. Mereness" <zonker+@CMU.EDU> says:
>>>
>>>Can anyone offer any opinions of the Ford Probe... ala how they do in
>>>the long run, repair records, reliability, mileage, etc?
>>
>Some other owners on the ford-probe@world.std.com mailing list have commented 
>about this problem, but I haven't seen it happen on my 3 month old 
>'93 Probe GT.  I think this may be something that Ford has corrected since 
>the initial batch of cars.  Also, someone said that Ford has issued a 
>service bulletin to inform dealers about how to correct this problem, so you 
>may be able to get your dealer to fix it.

I have had my Probe looked at twice by my local dealer (where I purchased
the car) ... the first time, they made this problem worse.  The second time,
after advising them of the service bulletin mentioned on my ford-probe mailing
list (they said they didn't know of the bulletin), they adjusted the window and
made it *much* better.  However it now makes a "scritch scritch" noise on rough
roads, and *still* squeals when I open/close the window in wet weather (anyone
elses's do this?)

>>Ford only gives 1 key with the car.  C'mon Ford, spend an extra few pennies!

I got two keys with my car, but only ONE remote-entry push-button thingie!
But then, I bought my 93 with 2500 miles, and  I think it may have been a
repossession ... so I'm not surprised something was missing :-(

>>horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in center (personal preference)

I am seriously considering following the advice in the owners manual where
it describes the procedure to follow if "you discover something on your Ford
that could ... cause ... serious injury ... threaten lives ... etc).  Something
about notifying the National Traffic Safety group as well as Ford.  Those little
"you've-got-to-position-the-fingers-perfectly-to-make-it-beep" buttons are
TERRIBLE.
>
>The latter is probably because of the air bag.  It's pretty much takes up
>all the space where you'd expect to find the horn.
>Speaking of the horn, I was surprised to find that the Probe comes with one
>of those nice 'merican sounding horns instead of the Japanese sounding kind.
>The previous Probes had Japanese horns.

Well, I guess that's good in a way, but in a way it's bad.  When someone
hears that kind of horn, they expect to see a big American car.  They may
not associate the sound with a small "jap car" style car (like the Probe is).

>>Tires fling dirt/mud onto side of car 
>Yeah, not very badly, but enough to be annoying sometimes.

The mudflaps help a lot.

>>transmission (the 5 speed is a must)

I have always been a 5-speed guy.  Almost every car I've ever owned has been
a 5-speed.  Because I got a good deal on this car with the 2500 miles, I
(knowingly) overlooked the fact that it has an automatic.  But it is a pretty
high-tech automatic.  It is a fully electronicaly controlled 4-speed with
torque converter lockup.  Even with the automatic, I'm getting 35 mpg on the
highway, driving 65-70!.    (but of course driving > 65 is illegal, so I 
probably made that sentence up).  :-)     Around town the mileage has been
around 25-27, not bad for an automatic.   Of course it doesn't have the
"control" of a 5-speed, but since I do a lot of city driving, it turns out
to be very convenient.  It's nice to be able to drink a cup of coffee and
drive at the same time (although that, too, is illegal here in 
"we-like-to-control-your-life Massachusetts" :-)


>>No shake/rattle noises when going over bumps/potholes (still!)

Shakes and rattles has been my main gripe.  I've gotten them to fix the
worst of them, but I fear that with the rather harsh ride, the car will
be a virtual potpouri of rattles when it gets older.

>>Tires: 225/55VR16 Goodyear Eagles (70% left; hoping for 30K :-)

On my 89 Probe GL, I got about 40K out of the original Goodyears,
and had driven the replacement tires (Bridgestone) 50K miles when
I tradeed the car.  The 195/65(60?)VR14 Firestones on my 93 Probe
look like they're designed for performance (ie rather wide, shallow
tread, etc), so they probably won't last as long.  But the car handles
very very very well.  It sticks to the road like glue, even on a rough
surface.

>interior is very, very nice too.  Very pleasing to the eye, and ergonomically
>sound.

Definitely.  Ford/Mazda did a very very nice job on this one.  The
car has a "much more expensive than it actually is" look and feel to it.

>Yes, this car's stiff suspension isn't for everyone.  I personally like it,
>but if you find it a little harsh but otherwise like the car, I'd strongly
>suggest looking into the MX-6.

Having driven an 89 Probe for 4 years, I find the 93 suspension "interesting".
The car actually drives much better than the 89 ... it is a very firm
ride, and you definitely know about each and every bump in the road.  Yet
the car remains very civilized on even the bumpiest roads.  You Hear and
feel the bumps, yet the car retains its posture very well.

>>If you have 3+ passengers, by all means bring them along too.  They'll find
>>that they have no room in the back and you'll find that the car rides
>>differently (if that's "better" is up to you).  

Well I wouldn't encourage passenger-carrying in the Probe unless the
person in the front seat likes to sit with his knees to the dash.  As
mentioned in the Consumer Reports write-ups, "consider the back seat
as a parcel shelf".  No biggie to me though (if it had been, I'd not
have bought the car!  (but it's definitely not a family car)).

>>Also, there's a lot of glass
>>around you which I wasn't expecting; the temperature inside the car gets pretty
>>hot in the summer.

A/C is a MUST on any Probe from 89 - 93.  The 93 in particular sends out
a REAL BLAST of cool air when the AC is on MAX.  That "lots of glass" you
mentioned is what gives the car the "very good visibility" reports you
see in all the write-ups.  Most "sports/sporty" cars don't have that
good visibility.

>>I've heard that the exhaust system has trouble, but mine works fine.
>I haven't heard about this one.  I know that some of the very early Probes
>('89 and maybe '90) had problems with prematurely rusting mufflers (which

The complaints I've heard re: exhaust system (on 93's) have been on 
the GT.  Of course being a different engine, that is a differeent 
exhaust system.

I was one of those with an 89 who qualified for the free replacement.
Since I had already replaced the muffler when I received the notice, 
I was/am due a refund from Ford.  I applied in February and am Still
waiting.   :-(

>gave me a free rental car for the day and a half that I was without my
>car.  I was quite happy with the way they handled...especially considering
>that I was expecting the worst from them!

Yes.  I was pretty amazed when I had my car in for some touch-up
adjustments this past week, and they had to keep it overnight (too busy
for them to get to it) and they offered to pay for a rental).  They 
did make me pay for taxes and insurance though :-(

>From what I've heard, it sounds like Ford/Mazda had some QC problems with 
>the Probe (and probably MX-6) when they first went into production, but 
>I think these problems have mostly been corrected at this point.  That's
>almost always to be expected with a completely new car like this, though.

I have to agree that they seem to have some QC problesm.  But I seriously
feel the car design is sound, and expect it to do very well.

-- 
Bill Heiser    heiser@acs.bu.edu, heiser@world.std.com
               Boston University, Boston MA   

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103350
From: heiser@acs2.bu.edu (Bill Heiser)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

In article <1993Apr22.000337.10096@news.arc.nasa.gov> chung@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Po Sum Chung ACF) writes:
>>(Tommy Szeto) writes:
>>> Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
>>> once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
>>> under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually  
>>I noticed this is my '89 probe also, when recently cleaning out the back.  I  
>>think the water is coming *up* through some rubber stoppered holes beneath the  
>>spare.  Mine looked slightly worn, and there was no water or water damage 
>I have the same problem with my '90 probe.  The water is definitely not comming
>up from the rubber stoppered hole beneath the spare.  I have to remove the
>rubber stopper to drain the water.  Seems like a common problem with probe.

There is a known problem with the seals on the taillights of <93 probes.
Complain loudly to your dealer and get them to install new seals.  It is
a known problem, present on most (if not all) pre-93 Probes, so you 
shouldn't have to pay them to fix it.  In my case, they fixed it on
my extended warranty (I just had to pay a $50 deductable) (the
work was valued at something like $185 with labor and parts).  Having
removed the tail lamps myself on other occasions, I think their estimate
was fair.


-- 
Bill Heiser    heiser@acs.bu.edu, heiser@world.std.com
               Boston University, Boston MA   

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103351
From: oaddab@stdvax (DIRK BROER)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article <1993Apr19.230010.4937@cactus.org>, boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes...
>In article <C5r43y.F0D@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
>>In article <5265@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>>>
>>>> Remember roads in America are NOT designed for speeds above 80 meaning they
>>                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>would be safe at 55-65. Roads like the Autobahn are smoother, straiter,
>>>>wider and slightly banked. 
>>>
>>>	Well, that's news.  Before 1975 the speed limit on Texas highways
>>>was 75.  The speed limit on the New Jersey Turnpike (I-95) was 70.  There
>>>were no speed limits in Nevada or Montana.
>>
>>I guess I wasn't clear enough here. I said the roads WERE designed for 
>>speeds of 80 or so and still be safe. The current 55-65 will add a saftey
>>margin.
>>
> 
>Actually, the roads were designated as safe at 80 when they were built
>in the 1950's taking into account the kinds of cars then available. The
>number would be much higher today because the cars, tires and just about
>everything else has imprivoved a lot.
> 
> 
I believe the interstates were origionally funded as part of a national 
defense plan etc.  The  requirements were to move heavy army trucks at 
70mph.

Still its amazing in Germany you can have cars traveling 155 mph and 65 mph 
on the same 3 to 4 lane road.  Around Washington DC they can't keep traffic 
flowing at 55.

Dirk

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103352
From: oaddab@stdvax (DIRK BROER)
Subject: Re: Old Corvettes / Low insurance? AND corvette prices

In article <rjnC5sxMG.JqH@netcom.com>, rjn@netcom.com (Richard Newton II) writes...
>In article <1993Apr15.011805.28485@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> swr2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT WARREN ROSANDER) writes:
>>In article <C5Csux.Fn1@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, gdhg8823@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (George Hei
>>nz) writes:
>>>After too many years of school I'm finally graduating and getting a real
>>>job.  Of course I am trying to make plans of how to spend all this extra
>>>money.  Right now I have an 89 accord, a good car, but not real sporty &
>>>I was thinking of selling it in about two years and dropping around
>>>$20k on a sports car of some kind.  After thinking about it, I may have a
>>>better idea -- I'll keep the Accord until it drops and buy the car I've
>>>always wanted -- a Corvette Stingray. My reasoning is that $8000 (accord)+
>>>$8000 (corvette) =$16000 is less than what I would spend anyway.
>>>
>>>Basically, I'm thinking of a late 70's, early 80's for around $7-$10k.
>>>My question is, what are good years to consider (for reliability, looks,
>>>horsepower -- in that order, believe it or not, horsepower is not a main
>>>concern, if I want to go fast, I get on my motorcycle) and what are
>>>good prices?
>>>
'63 to '82 vettes had the same basic chassis. 1980 add aluminum (weaker) 
rear 'axle' housing.  All these years used same brakes, similar springs etc
  Late 70's was a bad year for GM reliability.  Catastrophic converter was 
added in 1975.

Cheapest corvette '78 to '79 low end about 4k tops out about $12k except 
for those morooons that think there '78 indy / 25th aniversity vette is 
special.  These guys have been known to ask 25K.  I don't think they get it
.

Best buy: convertables 69 - 74.  I got my 69 for 5K - needs body work but 
I'm willing.  

Parts for all are readily avail at swap meets and mail order etc.

V-8 reliability / looks / independant suspension / 4 wheel disk and all 
under 10K.  And they thought a miata was a good deal.

>>>Also, what would insurance look like?  I'm male, single, 23 (I might
>>>wait until I'm 25 to get the car = lower insurance). Would the fact that
>>>I mainly drive the other car lower it?  Is there some type of "classic
>>>car" or "rarely driven" insurance class for driving it under 10k miles
>>>per year?
>>>
>>    My dad has a 66 vette and its on what you say 'classic insurance'.
>>    Basically what that means is that it has restricted amount of driving
>>    time, which basically means it cant be used as an every day car and would
>>    probably suit your needs for limited mileage.

My origional inquires to my insurance agent: I can drive my '69 convertable 
for 3000 miles or less per year, I must keep it in a locked garage and it 
will cost me 2% of the stated value per year (does this sound right?).

> 
>I've also been looking at vettes recently, and found a '67 convertible
>that I like at a dealer. I currently own an '88 Ford Escort GT, which
>is insured through State Farm. I called em up, and asked about the rates:
> 
>If I sell the escort, the vette insurance is $401.16 per 6 months.
> 
>If I keep the escort, the vette insurance is $308.82 per 6 months. The
>escort's insurance goes down by 10%, to approx $320 per 6 months.
> 
>I'm 28, male, and have a "good driver" discount. Another variable would
>be where you live. Best bet is to just call up some insurance brokers,
>and get a quote.
> 
>State Farm says they base the price on the "fair market value" of the car,
>which is determined by an outside apprasier. They look in the newspaper,
>and call up dealers to find out what the going rate is, and adjust it for
>the condition of the car.
> 
>To get the values above, they went on the selling price of the car. The
>dealer's asking price is $21,900; I need to do research to find out if
>this is reasonable. In any case, I told State Farm the value was $20k.

Get an appraiser to look at the car. He will check serial numbers and look 
for origional equipe.  Depending on what mods have been done the car could 
be worth only 10K.  Problems like wrong engine / trans.  Wrong paint type (
vetts used lacquer)  An modification would reduce tthe value.  But your 
looking for a car to drive right?

This sounds like a ball park price for a small-block (327 cu in.) / manual 
/ no air car.  A 427 would put it closer to $30K.

Get it appraised!!!  For insurance purposes also.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103353
From: oprsfnx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Stephen F. Nicholas)
Subject: Re: Geico

 I'm glad this forum came up. I've been pricing insurance lately and had        considered GEICO. But no more!! Any company with practices like theirs can
E.S.A.D.!! I'll stay with Liberty mutual.

Steve Nicholas
Wells Computer Center - Georgia State University
oprsfnx@gsusgi1.gsu.edu

 " A RISK IS NOT A RISK UNTIL IT IS TAKEN."


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103354
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) writes:


>HELP!!!
>my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
>We live in South Fla., so we are definitely in the right are for one.
>My wife has mentioned the Miata, but I think it is too small.
>I would like to wait for the new Mustangs ( Dec. '93 I think).
>Anyone have any opinions on any/all convertibles in a reasonable price range.

>                                           Thanx

	The Olds Supreme Convertible got high marks in C/D's recent test, if
you can get by the stupid body moldings and stuff.  The Saab 900 ragtop may
be out of your range, but its a good choice.  Is there a new F-car convertible?
The Nissan 240SX convertible is a nice car also... Those immediately come to 
mind...



-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103361
From: mboenig@dewey.NMSU.Edu (BOENIG)
Subject: v 16


	Probably the most famous V16 is the one Cadillac made from about 1925  
to 1935.  They had to scale down then because the Great Depression really put  
the crimp on luxury cars.  It had 452 cubic inches with over two hundred horse  
power.  "They don't make them like they used to."  
	There were others though.  Packard had one until about 1930 whe it down  
sized to their legendary Twin-Six, their mainstay for the next twenty years.   
Lincoln and Pierce Arrow might have also had one but I am not two sure.
	Most luxury and semi-luxury cars of this era at least experimented with  
V16 if they did not actually produce them.  There was actually a "cylinder war"  
among the Big Three to see who could produce the biggest engine.

Big M

++++++++++++++++++++
Standard disclaimer applies, because I can't think of anything wittier.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103362
From: kimgh@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Gene Kim)
Subject: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO

Review of 1989 Ford Taurus SHO -- By Gene Kim
=============================================

Background:

    Last week, I bought a 1989 Ford Taurus SHO, moving up from driving
a 1987 Toyota Celica ST and a 1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass.  I have been
interested in buying a SHO for about five months and have been combing
the classifieds in Denver and Chicago every week.  I bought a
remarkably clean maroon/red SHO with 92K miles on it for $6800.
As far as I can tell, this is about $2000 under Blue Book and I still
have another 8000 miles before the Extended Service Plan runs out.

    As one should with any pre-1991 SHOs, I made sure that the car was
already refit with the upgraded clutch and pressure plate, as well as
having been recalled for upgraded rotors and seatbelt attachments.
However, my SHO does not have the newer rod shifter -- I understand I
can get this for $230 from any Ford service center.  In addition, the
car received the full tune-up at 60K miles, receiving new platinum
plugs and valve adjustment.

    For a car with 92K miles on it, the car was virtually immaculate.
The clearcoat paint job was devoid of any large chips or dents,
although the front air-dam/molding was covered with lots of small
scratches -- not surprising since most of the miles were spent on the
highway.

    Having driven a smaller two-door coupe for so long, I was a bit
concerned about whether I could get used to driving a larger car.  To
my surprise, the size of the car doesn't bother me at all -- it seems
just as nimble as my Celica!  (No comparisons with my Oldsmobile.  :-)
Visibility from the driver's seat is excellent, helped mostly by of
the small the quarter-windows, aft of the back-seat door windows and
in front of the C-pillar and rear window.  Parallel parking is a bit
more difficult, but other than that, I love the size.

    In fact, I'm starting to appreciate the large trunk as I pack up
for a 14-hour drive to Washington, DC for the summer.  More on the
ride later in this review.


Engine:
    
    As with anyone even slightly interested in SHOs, I was very
interested in the 24-valve 3.0L Yamaha "Shogun" engine.  I was not
disappointed.  Base performance of the engine under 4000 rpms is
good.  You can even do reasonable launches from second gear, although
I don't make a practice of this.  The engine revs smoothly and eagerly
-- tooling around town does not require many shifts.  This is good
since the shifter is definitely one of the weakest points of the car.
(More on this later.)

    While the performance of the engine under 4000 rpms may be
unremarkable, it undergoes a Jekyll/Hyde transformation once you hit
higher revs.  At 4500 rpms, a butterfly valve opens and you can
literally hear and feel the geometry of the engine changing as twelve
more valves open up.  The engine soars to its 7000 rpm redline, and
you are treated to, in my opinion, the sweetest sounding V6 around.
The engine inexplicably sounds OVERJOYED to be at 6500 rpm!

    I've noticed that when I drive around town, I constantly watch the
tach to see how far below 4000 rpm I am.  To go from 2000 rpm to 4000,
you may have to punch the accelerator -- while torque is more than
adequate, it doesn't come fully online until those other 12 valves
are used.


Transmission:

    When _Car and Driver_ first reviewed the car in 1988, they
marvelled at how Ford had put such a wimpy clutch and balky shifter
into the car.  I remember driving a friend's parent's SHO in 1990, and
remember thinking about whether I had the leg strength to drive the
car in traffic -- the clutch was that stiff.  That was back then.

    The entire clutch assembly on my SHO has been replaced under a
Ford recall in 1991.  The clutch on the SHO feels no stiffer than the
one on my Toyota Celica.  In fact, the friction point seems a bit
larger and more forgiving.

    When playing with the shifter with the car parked, the shifter
felt very reasonable.  The 1-2 and 3-4 gates were where you'd expect
it to be, and the shifting action was smooth.  On the road, it's
much the same -- but you have to shift SLOWLY!  Make no mistake, it's
a clumsy shifter.

    When hurrying shifts, like when I was initially trying to impress
friends, I consistently miss the 1-2 shift, often grope clumsily for
the 2-3 shift, and sometimes even muff the 3-4 shift.  I find this
pretty amazing in a car like this.

    It also took me several days to realize that you get the smoothest
shifts when you take your time.  Seems obvious, but compared to my
Toyota and my friend's Honda, this seems atrocious and clumsy.
Someone on rec.autos noted that CRXs should blow SHOs off-the-line
because of the incredibly clumsy shifter.

    I now shift much more sedately, and the shifter seems more
reasonable.  When you play within these bounds, the shifter works
smoothly with no surprises.  I don't know whether the rod shifter
upgrade would help at all.

    Along these same lines, I initially had trouble shifting gears
smoothly.  Again, slowing down the shifts and taking more care to
match revs when letting out the clutch helped immensely.  This took
several days for me to get the hang of.  (I think some of my problems
were because I've never had a car with enough power to balk at bad
shifts in higher gears.)

    Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse.  The shifter
refuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to 
get it into gear.  I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple
of months.

    A quirk:  When I upshift and the engine drops back to 1000-2500
rpm, I hear a whirring and then a grinding noise coming from the the
engine compartment.  Not terribly loud, but the passenger can
definitely hear it.  I asked about it when I was looking at the car,
as do all my passengers.  Apparently, this is a definitely a "SHO
sound" and is the gearbox -- apparently called "gear rollover".
Replies to my queries on rec.autos are at the end of this review.


Exterior:

    As I mentioned before, I am astounded by how well the body of this
SHO has stood up.  Paint chipping on the front bumper and grille are
virtually non-existent.  Looking at how older Tauri sometimes
don't age so gracefully, I wonder what the guys at Ford did
differently to the SHO bodies.

    The body, in my opinion, is extremely attractive with matching
color body moldings than the stock Tauri.  For some odd reason, the
SHO seems different enough from vanilla Tauri to get stares at
stoplights -- of course, this could be my overactive imagination.
:-)  SHOs get fog lights, a more open grille, a completely
monochromatic exterior, and a deeper ground skirt in the back with
"SHO" stenciled in relief.  I've seen a couple SHOs whose owners have
colored these in with florescent colors or in black.  Yuck.

    I don't think the car is flashy.  I like it that way.  I feel
almost anonymous with all those Tauri out there, but different and
distinctive enough to those of us who care.  :-)


Interior:

    The interior is what really makes me feel like I don't deserve the
car.  The seats are grey leather, the steering wheel and shifter are
covered with black leather, and the entire instrument panel is done in
a black/grey/metallic scheme.  

    The instrumentation is stock Taurus, except for the 140 mph speedo
and 8000 rpm tach.  You get a center console with two cupholders, a
large compartment under the radio (great for a CD player), an armrest
that contains yet another compartment, three appropriately sized coin
holders for tollways (I think), and a compartment for holding
cassette tapes.  There's map-holders in the doors, and an oddly small
glove compartment.

    I spilled a whole can of Coke in the cupholder and was delighted
to find that the entire rubber holder can be removed and washed in a
sink.  Hey, I'm really impressed with the ergonomics and
thoughtfulness that went into its design.  And it's a 1989, before the
interior was upgraded!

    The backseat is bigger than any car I've had.  Why do they need so
much space?  :-)  (No smart-ass comments, please.  :-)

    The driver and passenger seat have lumbar and side bolsters.  From
what I hear, it's not uncommon for the side bolsters to show wear.
Mine is no exception.  The left side bolster on the driver's has
cracked and I'm not convinced the right bolster is inflating all the
way.

    A big surprise for me:  I forgot that SHOs don't have a normal
hand parking brake.  Instead, they have the regular parking brake that
you press with your left foot.  Too bad.  Again, I'm getting used to
it, but it seems a bit anachronistic to me.


Ride:

    The suspension is nice and stiff.  Too stiff?  It's stiffer than
any car I've had.  A friend's new 1993 Toyota Celica ST seems tauter
and is still able to soak up bumps better.  The SHO seems stiffer with
less ability to soak up bumps.  Driving over railroad tracks is a
noisy and jarring affair.  On the other hand, taking turns feels
wonderful because the body is so rigid and doesn't flex at all -- I
listened for that before I bought the car.

    On the highway, the ride is great.  When I drove the car from
Chicago back to Purdue, I had trouble keeping under 85 mph, let alone
from trying to see what 100 mph really feels like.  It's a relatively
quiet ride, but the sunroof rattles.  I've tried to find out what
exactly makes all the noise up there, but it seems to be the window
that rests on the rails.  No easy way to get rid of it, I think.

    Over the past three days, I've oscillated between thinking the
suspension is wonderful and perfect and thinking that the ride is way
too rough.  (Not for me, mind you.  But I wonder whether I would
advise my dad to buy one for himself.)  But, I've discovered, as with
the shifter, if you take your time with shifts, you'll have no reason
to complain.  Let me explain...

    The ride is worst when turning and applying lots of power to the
wheels.  I feel the wheels scrabbling for traction and torque steer
making the car skitter left and right.  After I understood this, I
avoid the limits of traction -- and I'm a happy camper again.

    It's not body rigidity, but the composure of the car.

    As if matching the suspension, the steering feel is quite heavy.
My first impression of driving my SHO was how hard you had to turn the
wheel at highway speeds.  It tracks straight as an arrow, but when
driving around a parking lot, the high-effort steering didn't seem so
useful.  However, it's reasonable, but it doesn't communicate the road
to the driver as well as a 1993 Ford Probe GT.  IMHO, it's much better
than the steering on my Celica ST.

    I wonder how bad this car is during winter?


Miscellaneous notes:

    GRIPES:

    The rattles from the sunroof is intermittent -- some days it rattles
        loudly, other days I look up wondering where all the noise went.

    Activating the sunroof is sometimes very noisy -- loud squealing as
	it retracts on its rails.  I wonder if there is a quick fix for this.
	Again, other days it completely disappears.  (Function of humidity?)

    Once I made the connection between the sometimes awful feeling suspension
	and torque steer, I've never complained about ride.

    I wish the seats had more support under the thighs.  Also, I wish the
	side bolsters would close more tightly.  

    I hear that tires for this car can get really expensive.  I
	currently have Goodyear GT+4s that cost the previous owner $500
	for four.

    I used to hate the Ford stereo systems -- whose idea was it
	to use a volume *paddle*?  Now, to my amazement, I don't
	really mind...  and sometimes think it's an okay idea!!!
	Pretty ridiculous, though.

    Getting up to 4000 rpm sometimes seems to be a chore.  But,
	this is no big deal.  There is more than enough torque
	down low.

    I often goof up the shifting when driving with friends.  It
	took me a couple of days before I could really shift
	smoothly from 2nd to 3rd gear.  (Hard to believe, isn't it?)

    My car has almost 93,000 miles on it.  My parents noted that
	it is almost impossible to find a low-mileage SHO. 
	Astute observation, IMHO.  I wonder how long I can make
	my SHO last -- I just bought a book titled "Drive It Forever"
	for tips in this department.  :-)

    The goofy parking brake pedal still throws me for a loop.  I once
	parked the car in gear, and then accidentally let out the clutch
	after I started it.  The car jolted forward, and bounced off
	the car in front of me -- no paint damage at all, but starting the car 
	is a whole new ritual for me with that fangled pedal!  Also, I began 
	to wonder how strong that brake really is.  (Today, I backed out of 
	parking spot today and started to drive away before I noticed 
	the glowing brake light.  Oops.)

    The driver's power window creaks when closed all the way.  The same
    	thing happens in my parents 1989 Mercury Sable.  Oddly, all the
	other windows work smoothly.


    LIKES:

    I'm liking the interior amenities more and more each day.  The
    	cupholders are great.

    I didn't expect to use the keyless entry buttons so much, but
	it really is handy.  You can lock all the doors by
	pressing the 7/8 and 9/10 buttons together!  Neat!  And
	you can never lock yourself out of the car.

    I really feel like I don't deserve this car.  I really can't
	believe that I could afford it.  I got this car ten years 
	ahead of schedule.  :-)

    I love this car so much that I've been telling my parents to
	look into buying one.  I love this car so much that I
	wrote this 13K file -- I meant to write a couple of lines
	and ended up with this.  

    If there were a J.D. Powers Survey for used car owners, I would have
	an opportunity to express my incredible satisfaction of owning this 
	car.  I don't like thinking about getting another car, but at this
	point in time, I'm sure I'd buy another SHO.  For under $7000, you
	can't beat it.  (Next time with an airbag and ABS, though.)

    Insurance-wise, this car is also a big win.  I pay the same premiums
	as on my 1987 Toyota Celica -- despite that it has nearly twice
	the horsepower.  



Other Odds and Ends:

    Much to my amazement, there is no SHO mailing list anywhere.
Maybe because the _SHO Registry_ publication has filled this void.  I
haven't joined yet, but I've noticed that queries about SHOs still
appear on rec.autos about once a month.  Owners of SHOs are always
quick to respond, and are very vocal fans of the cars.  (Maybe some
of the most vocal on rec.autos.  :-)

    I've put together the responses to my questions about the cars, as
well as other posts with useful information on these cars.  I'll be 
posting this in the form of a FAQ soon.  

    If anyone is interested in starting a mailing list, please speak up!
I don't know if I have the resources here at Purdue to start one, but 
maybe someone out there does.


Gene Kim
(genek@mentor.cc.purdue.edu)



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103366
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted

The best auto-shifters on the street (AND NOT THE TRACK) are those from 
Porsche... they wont change if you floor the gas during a turn.... a few 
years back a was in a 200SX auto (you guys call it a 240SX [without turbo])
and was going round a corner.... I floored it and next thing I know I was 
pointing backwards! The other drivers seemed quite amused ;-)

						....Shaz....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103367
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions

I just wanted to know:

To wheelspin in an auto, you keep the gear in N - gas it - then stick the 
gear in D... I've never tried this but am sure it works - but does this screw 
up the autobox? We're having a bit of a debate about it here...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103368
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

Dumbest options? Well here in the UK, BMW offer a 'no-smokers' option...
It just means they take the fag lighter out.... big deal....

BTW - I just bought a Honda CRX F1..... its neat... did consider an MR2 targa,
MX5 (you guys call it Miata?).... but that CRX just one my heart with that 
body kit and 8-spokes.... 

ps: is Richard out there somewhere?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103369
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr22.180150.12377@telxon.mis.telxon.com> joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt) writes:
>>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>
>Honda: Prelude (?)
nope.  4 cylinder.

>>V8 - Don't know of any.
>
>You didn't try very hard:
>Lexus, Infinty: several of each
i wasn't aware that there was another Infiniti with a V-8 besides the Q45.

>BMW: one model (5-series?)
several.  the 740i, 730i, 540i, 530i.  (4.0 liter and 3.0 liter V-8)

>Mercedes: one or two models
one or two?  there's at least one V-8 for every platform except
the compact (190E).  S-class (400SEL, 500SEL), W124 (400E, 500E),
and roadster (500SL).

>Acura: one model (can't remember the name right now)
acura doesn't have any V-8 cars at the moment.

>>V12 - Jaguar XJS
>BMW: 750il, 850
>Mercedes: XXXSL
600SL and 600SEL.  the other SLs (500 SL and 300SL) are V-8 and inline six.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103370
From: tonyz@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Tony Zugates)
Subject: Last of the V-8 Interceptors

Does anyone know what kind of car Mad Max used in "Road Warrior"?

They called it "the last of the V-8 Interceptors..."

I couldnt tell what it was, it was so chopped up.

thanks



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103371
From: chung@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Po Sum Chung ACF)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

In article <1r1r4bINNfja@tamsun.tamu.edu> jlong@emcnext2.tamu.edu (James Long) writes:
>In article <1r1crn$27g@transfer.stratus.com> tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com  
>(Tommy Szeto) writes:
>> Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
>> once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
>> under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually  
>happens
>> after a good thunder storm.  A few Qs:
>> 
>> 1) Is this a common problem?
>> 2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?
>
>I noticed this is my '89 probe also, when recently cleaning out the back.  I  
>think the water is coming *up* through some rubber stoppered holes beneath the  
>spare.  Mine looked slightly worn, and there was no water or water damage above  
>the level of the spare area. 

I have the same problem with my '90 probe.  The water is definitely not comming
up from the rubber stoppered hole beneath the spare.  I have to remove the
rubber stopper to drain the water.  Seems like a common problem with probe.



Po Sum Chung                        email: chung@ames.arc.nasa.gov


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103372
From: crpresto@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Charlie Preston)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important?

In article <1993Apr20.163527.12773@bnr.ca> tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes:
>   I was recently thumbing through the 1993 Lemon-Aid New
>Car Guide.  What I found was a car would be given a 'Recommended'
>under the picture while a few sentences later noting how a
>driver and passenger were virtually guaranteed to be killed
>in a front end collision.  The most highly recommended small
>car (The Civic) has the worst crash rating of all of the small
>cars listed.  There were many such cases of 'great' vehicles
>where you wouldn't survive an accident.  Is it only me, or is
>safety not one of the most important factors when buying a car?
>                                                                   IMHO the
best way to reduce risk when operating a vehicle is being able to avoid
hazards and, for that reason my preferred vehicle is a motorcycle.  When I do
use a four wheeler my primary reasons are: it will keep me dry, it will keep
me warm, or it will carry more cargo.  If the four wheeler has as much
collision protection as the average motorcycle, then it has enough form me.

How do you define safe?  One definition of safe is without risk.  Is


-- 
Chas                         DoD #7769

"Oh, how can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?"
                                               - Firesign Theatre

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103373
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: RE: THE 1994 MUSTANG

-> The current 4.9l V-8 will soldier on for about two years.  A version
-> of the 32 valve modular V-8 in the Mark VIII could be offered then.

How unfortunate for anyone who loves the simplicity with which 302 and
351 Fords and 305 and 350 Chevys can be built up. Still, it will provide
a needed punch for the Ford to stay up with the new Firebird/Camaros. It
wouldn't surprise me if Ford called the engine a 5.0 litre in the
Mustang. (We all know that the current 5.0 is really 4.9 litres anyway)

-> Undisguised, the car looks OK, but not nearly as exciting as the new
-> Camaro/Firebird, IMO.

I must agree. I don't think I've seen anything as impressive looking as
the new Firebird since my friend back home sold his 1970 Formula 400
Firebird (for a paltry $2000, without even telling me. The bastard.)

George Howell
george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org
                                   

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103374
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: BRONCOS

Does anybody have any information on the second generation Broncos? (I'm
not talking about Bronco II's, I'm referring to the Broncos that began
production in 1978 based on the F-150 chassis I believe)

I need to know what to look for, can the tops be removed from all
models, how easily can that be done. Also, what kind of price range
should I be looking at? (i.e. what is blue book) I'm in college right
now, and would like a Jeep. Unfortunately, I've got a bit of a ride to
school, and I need to carry a lot of junk to and from the dormitory in
the spring/fall. I think that the Bronco (with the removable fiberglass)
would be a better (read "bigger") choice than a CJ-5 or CJ-7.

Even better: anybody in the Maryland/Virginia area interested in selling
one?

George Howell
george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org
                                                                                 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103375
From: cmermag@eng.umd.edu (Christopher Mermagen)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

Yeah, it seems toyota has always had a problem with those 2.2's
and sound. I know the celicas with em were pretty noisey, and
the MR2s were no exception. Now, about large displacement 4s
with bad noise.. I have a 90 Grand Am H.O. quad 4, and it
sounds really good, almost like a larger 6.. Now, Toyota
is coming out with an all-new Celica next year and the Mr2...
well who knows..

Later-
Chris


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103376
From: uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu (Andrew Krenz)
Subject: Re: Impala SS going into production!

In <1993Apr19.193417.18601@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> dunnjj@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (DUNN  JONATHAN JAMES) writes:

>uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu (Andrew Krenz) writes:

>>I personally like the looks of the Impala SS.  The Caprice was definately 
>>weird looking until this year when they made the rear wheel openings look 
>>more like a normal car, but the Impala impresses me.  GM can't exactly shove
>>the LT1 in everything they make, you know, only the bigger stuff.  I'd like
>>to see it next in a 1500 series pickup.  That would be a hot setup.
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>What about in a full size Blazer as well?  Would this engine have the gobs
>of torque necessary for off-roading?  If so, this would be even better than
>the Syclone.

Well, an LT1 Blazer wouldn't come close to a GMC Typhoon in speed, I think its
too heavy.  As it is right now, the normal 210HP 5.7 engine has plenty of 
power for a full size Blazer.  Of course, I'm not saying GM shouldn't put the
LT1 in it :).  It seems like they have a real winner with that engine.  Why
spend so much more money into getting a 32 valve DOHC V8 when you can take 
an LT1?  It even seems to get pretty good gas MPG (for a 5.7, that is.)


[talking about Impala SS]
>Will this be in the 4-door Caprice body?  I'm just curious if Chevy is
>trying to resurrect their 2-door muscle cars, or to compete with the European
>"super sedans."

Yeah, it's a flat black, lowered 4 door Caprice riding on 17" aluminum rims and
Eagle GS-C tires.  The rest of the car is basically a Caprice LTZ (read: 
plush police package) with 300 horsepower.

I heard that Chevy is resurrecting the Monte Carlo but that's going to get 
their 3.4 DOHC V6 and not the LT1.

>>Jon Dunn<
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Krenz -- uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu | krenz@engrhub.ucsb.edu 
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103377
From: briang@bari.Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Gordon)
Subject: Re: legal car buying problems

In article <C5syDn.C2v@megatest.com> jao@megatest.com (John Oswalt) writes:
>	[...]
>However, if you agree some terms, and then, when about to sign, the
>dealer slips you a contract with different terms, and leads you to
>believe that it embodies the terms you verbally agreed to, that
>is fraud.  There is no 3 day limit on restitution for fraud.
>
>You may have to sue (and win) to get out of this.  You will almost
>certainly have to threaten to sue.
>-- 

On the other hand, remember the old adage that a verbal agreement isn't worth
the paper it's printed on.  Once you sign, you are going to have one hell of a
time proving fraud based on a comparison to what you thought you were going to
sign ...

Being in the right is one thing, proving it is another.
-- 
:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
| Brian G. Gordon	briang@Sun.COM    		briang@netcom.COM     |
| B.GORDON2 on GENie	70243,3012 on CompuServe	BGordon on AOL	      |
:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103378
From: rhorwell@crab.network-a (Roland Faragher-Horwell,crab)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all tim

In article 1EL@targhee.idaho.amdahl.com, rbs@sawtooth.idaho.amdahl.com (Bob Smith) writes:
>In article <1993Apr7.173712.23250@cas.org>, sdm24@cas.org () writes:
>> IMHO, the dumbest thing we *ever* did in copying the Japanese was moving the
>> dimmer switch from the floor to the lever controlling the turn signal/cruise
>> control/bun warmer, etc.
>
>Well, my 1973 Porsche had the dimmer on the turn signal stalk.  Guess those
>dumb Germans were copying the Japanese too. :-)
>
>[rest deleted]
>> -- 
 
Not to mention my friend's '54 Citroen Traction Avant with the light switch and 
dimmer integrated in a single stalk off the steering column!   Those dumb French
were apparently copying the Japanese before the Germans!  :^)

Roland



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103379
From: rhorwell@crab.atc.boeing.com (Roland Faragher-Horwell,crab)
Subject: Re: What is " Volvo " ?

In article 21071@sernews.raleigh.ibm.com, mperry@vnet.ibm.com (Mark Perry) writes:
>>Hardly a good reason, most US cars do too - and plenty of people
>>buy them (in the US anyway :-). I think the 850 is quite a good
>>looking car - unlike the US influenced 740!
>>
>>kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
>
>I don't think it's so easy to tell the 850 from any other 7 or 9 series unless
>you look real close. I really do think Volvo's are all dogs though beacuse they
>are 1.Agricultural 

While previous Volvos have been essentially very fast tractors, the 3,4 and 8 series
are far from 'agricultural' in design or execution (how many FWD tractors have you 
seen?).

>2.Have godlier than thou advertising. 

You state this like it is a bad thing.  :^)  (remember, car companies use
ad agencies - they don't do their own ads!)

>3.are part of Renault.

Is this true?  I know that they had done joint ventures with Renault, but I haven't
heard about their subsumption into Renault - does this mean that the French Government
now owns Volvo?  - anyway, Renault makes some very nice cars, they just don't sell
'em in N. America!

>
>However... One thing that I do think is in their favour is that they are
>immediately recognisable as a VOLVO and that is not something you can say
>about most Japanese manufacturers and Ford. Saab also have a strong corparate
>look which like it or not is what I thing all car makers could aim for to
>make life a little more varied.

Here! Here!

>
>
>mperry@vnet.ibm.com

Roland
rhorwell@atc.boeing.com





Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103380
From: pv9955@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: VW Jetta GLI help

I am considering the purchse of a 1987 VW Jetta GLI with 87k miles on it.
I recently found out that there are two versions of the GLI -- 8v and 16v.
I know of three differences between the two cars that both carry the same
name:  the 16v version has 20 more horsepower, 4 wheel discs, and a standard
sunroof. 
Oops, that's the difference between the GLI 16v and the regular GL !!
So in addition to the engine, what other differences exist between the
two models of the Jetta GLI ?
More importantly, how can I tell which version this one is ?  There are
no badges that said "16v" so I am inclined to think that is the 8v version.
Assuming this one (the one I looked at) is the 8v version, is there a valid
reason to buy it instead of a comparably equipped GL which would cost less ?
(Of course I would love to get the 16v version, but money talks.)

Please EMail any responses.  Thank you.
Peter Volpe
PV9955@albnyvms.bitnet

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103381
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <C5LIw2.CAx@news.rich.bnr.ca> Peon w/o Email (Eric Youngblood) writes:
>In article <1qn2lo$c9s@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) writes:
>The big disadvantage of automatics is the ~10% HP they consume that never
>gets to the wheels.  In this respect they are at a disadvantage to a manual.

only when the torque converter is not locked up.  there are autos out there
with converter lock up in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears.

>Dont forget that now that new 6 speed manual trannys are available the drive
>train is more optimally geared to get the most out of the engine.

rare.. so are 5 speed autos.. but very real.

>Bottom line is both manuals and automatics have vastly improved.

i think that automatics have advanced far more than manuals.
especially in shift intelligence.  i say that a smart automatic is
better than the majority of drivers in terms of being in the right
gear at the right time, which to me is more important than torque
converter losses.

>I prefer the stick for fun and the auto for traffic.

who says you can't have your cake and eat it too?  a well designed
shifter will easily facilitate manual, clutchless shifts.  i am
referring to the much copied mercedes jagged gate.  the only
department where you lose out is in the number of ratios available,
and of course the converter losses..

if ayrton senna can drive a racecar with fully automatic transmission,
it can't be half bad..  :-)


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103382
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
: >> 
: >I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if 
: >you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your
: >alarm?  I can think of worse things in the world.  Glad you got out of there
: >before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.
: 
I think people have a right to kill to defend their property. Why not? Be
honest: do you really care more about scum than about your  car?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103383
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <C5L8rE.28@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>Why anyone would order an SHO with an automatic transmission is
>beyond me; if you can't handle a stick, you should stick with a
>regular Taurus and leave the SHO to real drivers. That is not to
>say that there aren't real drivers who can't use the stick (eg
>disabled persons), but they aren't in any position to use an
>SHO anyway. 

actually, disabled persons have been known to drive in SCCA
races.  i'd be careful about making sweeping generalizations here.

i'd prefer a manual transmission, but the early SHO had an
awful transmission that felt like it came out of a truck or something.
it was almost enough to make me want an automatic.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103384
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qmcih$dhs@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>>The quality of autobahns is something of a myth. The road surface
>>isn't much different to a typical TX freeway. They are better
>>in terms of lighting, safety, signs, roadmarkings etc.
>
>They light the highways in Texas?  Funny, everywhere else I've been
>they only light 'em at junctions.

Sorry, by "they" I meant autobahns, not US freeways.

>
>I won't even get into how much road markings vary between states and
>localities except to say that there are some areas where markings are
>essentially nonexistant.
>
>>>than most of the roads here. A dip in the asphalt that you test your
>>>shocks on at 60 will kill you at 130. Don't get me wrong, I love to
>
>>It would have to be quite severe. I don't recall any US freeway,
>>without road damage warnings, that i would regard as unsafe
>>at 130 in any decent, well damped car.
>
>I suspect you have very limited experience -- US freeways vary
>dramatically, particularly between states.  I can name a number of
>interstate highways in various parts of the country where 130 would be
>very optimistic in any car.

Well, I've driven in every state but Alaska, and drive about 60k per year.
I take long cross country trips any chance I get - its fun for me and I
can get reimbursment.
My job allows me to drive rather than fly. Not to labor the point, but
I've driven just about every freewayin the US, Germany, UK and France plus
some in Mexico, which was surpisingly good.

>
>I'm not sure what you call "quite severe" in terms of road deviations
>but I suspect every single bridge junction on I84 through CT would be
>considered so.  They're hard to take at 85mph.  That's not the only
>interstate I've seen with such deviations, but it's one I drive
>frequently.

Yes, but as a %age of the total freeway in the US? 
All you have to do in this case is mark the hazard, advising people to
slow to 85 or so. 

>
>Texas is pretty much an edge-case -- you can't assume that everywhere
>has roads in such good condition, such flat terrain, and such

Texas freeways are varied, sometimes a good surface. Mostly flat. But,
I5 in CA is comparable and hilly.

>wide-open spaces.  It just ain't so.
>
Given the absence of other traffic and car built for 130 (e.g. 535) 
most US freeways are just fine. The problem is other road users and
cops.

>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.com

Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103385
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

In article <oprsfnx.735015349@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> oprsfnx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Stephen F. Nicholas) writes:
[stuff about Dodge Shadow deleted]

> As an ex-Fleet Mgr. of 3000 cars, they were amoung the most trouble free of
>all models.  I bought one for my wife.

What do you mean by "all models", all models of cars, all Chrysler models,
all models that the fleet manager had bought? Because there is no way in
hell that the Shadow is the most reliable car of all models sold, not
even Chrysler's dept. of lies, damned lies and statistics would claim that.

Craig
>

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103386
From: bz754@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Derek J. Wojciech)
Subject: Question to Nissan 300ZX owners/gurus (esp 87-89 models)


I purchased a used 1988 Nissan 300ZX (non-turbo) last year.  I had a 
question on gear/rpm ratios.  Right now in 5th @65mph I'm at 
2600-2700 rpms.  @70mph I'm at about 2900rpms.  Is this about the
norm?  I'm an auto neophyte so I'm just wondering if these are
the proper ranges?  Somehow the rpm figures seem high.  A friend of mine
just told me he can hit 60mph in 3rd on his 88 Chevy Beretta (2.8l V6.)
Also, anyone know the top speed attainable (@redline???) for this model Z?
(Not that I would try it but it would be an interesting factoid. :)
 
				Thanx!
					Derek


-- 
'Fire and Love, the two extremes |  wojciech@ossek.nrl.navy.mil /    ***.
that we live between, Fire and   |-----------------------------/    **   '
Love, there's more to life than  | Surfing or Snowboarding         ****
the eye can see.'  Guardian      |      ridin' the Wave........._-*********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103387
From: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu (Terry Quinn)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang



> They beat Ford to the market with the Camaro/Firebird, but really only
> in words.  Production of these vehicles will be limited until the
> end of the year, keeping selling prices above MSRP for the most part
> since there are so many twitching Camaro fans out there.
 
Drivel.  I received delivery of my '93 Trans Am 7 weeks after I 
ordered (promised 6-8 weeks), and paid $400 over dealer invoice, 
which is a $1425 discount off of MSRP.  I only have about 370 
miles on it, but so far no problems, and it seems very well put 
together.  By the way, first year production will be about 60,000 
cars.  Dealers would like you to think there is a shortage, but 
considering they only sold about 90,000 F bodies last year and the 
new model was introduced mid-year, that is not going to create a 
shortage.  GM planning on ramping to about 160,000 F bodies next 
year (according to a WSJ article).
 
Several people have mentioned seeing a photo of the '94 Mustang in 
Popular Mechanics.  I saw a photo of it in Motor Trend January 
1993 issue (p30).  Direct side on view.  Although they described 
it as a "seriously handsome car with broad shoulders," I thought 
it looked pretty boring in that view.  Roofline reminded me of a 
Toyota Celica (yuch!).  Description of mechanicals same as has 
been reported from the PM article. 
 

--
                                    Terry Quinn
                                     Germantown Hills, IL
                                      tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu
from Compuserve . . .                  >INTERNET: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103403
From: ae045@Freenet.carleton.ca (Mike Harker)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?


You guys are correct.  The Bricklin was produced in Canada.
The National Museum of Science and Technology here in Ottawa
has one, and sometimes they put it on display.  Most of the time,
it stays in storage because the museum doesn't have much room.
It's a big deal for a car to be Canadian and that's why they 
have it.  If anybody's a fan, they also have a nice green '73
Riviera that looks like it just came out of the showroom.
-- 
MIKE HARKER
OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA
VOICE: 613-823-6757

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103404
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:

>In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.

>I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
>guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).

	Maryland and other states.

	To the original poster:

	Read the last 3-4 issues of Car And Driver about this.  It's 
interesting and should be illegal...  


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103405
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Geico

goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg) writes:

>In rec.autos, jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
>>My suggestion, stay where you are, or shop around but STAY AWAY from Geico!

>I strongly agree with Jeff.  Here's my horror story.  Many years back,
>I switched to Geico from State Farm to save some $$$$.  I have a relatively
>new sports car, for which we covered with liability, collision, and
>comprehensive.  With this make of car, new models came out in January,
>not September like other makes.  The car was purchased in August of
>that year.

>We also had a much older clunker for which we only wanted liability.  
>Low and behold, a vandal slashed the roof of the sports car and we put 
>in a claim.  This was in October - still the current model year for
>the car.   A new top, with installation was $135.  We had $50 deductible
>so we should have gotten $85.  You had to go to Geico's local office
>to have an adjuster see the car, unlike State Farm that sent the adjusters
>to the shop or your place.  He said, "Since the car is now one year
>old, we'll depreciate the top by $50, so you'll get $35 on the claim.
>This will also count as an accident against you, so your rate may increase."

>The hassle continued.  Then we got a letter from Geico, saying "Claim
>denied - your policy on this car doesn't cover this."  I then learned
>that their records had the full coverage (collision, etc.) on our old
>clunker, and only had liability for this new car!!!!  They mixed up
>our cars in their records.  I fixed the top myself with some carpet
>thread and dropped my claim.  They still charged me with an "accident!"
>I cancelled my policy and switched to another company.

>The coup de gras came when they sent me a bill for an additional balance
>due for the difference in collision/comprehensive cost between my sports
>car and my clunker!!!  I returned the bill unpaid with a nastygram,
>plus explicity directions to perform recto-cranial insertion!!!!
>Haven't heard from them since.

>   /|/| /||)|/  /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~   |   Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
>  / | |/ ||\|\  \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_|  |      goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil
>========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======


	Good for you.  I am convinced that someone should start a boycott 
against GEICO.  Any takers?




-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103406
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles

In article <Apr16.215151.28035@engr.washington.edu> eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>the price of parts is a different story though...

you can say that again.
how does $23 for a new thermostat sound?

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103407
From: schrader@pi.eai.iastate.edu (Dave Schrader)
Subject: 400 big block

As the subject says.  It has 70k and my brother-in-law wants $250.  Please don't
reply to me as I am posting this for him. Here's his numbers :
              5pm-10pm   712 676 3669
              daytime    712 269 1261  


-- 
                          Dave Schrader
                          schrader@eai.iastate.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103408
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Subject: Looking for low lease rate on Toyota Previa

What's the best lease quote that anyone has seen on a Toyota Previa DX or DX
All-trac for a two-year lease?  If you know where I can get a better
rate than $330/month, please contact me with the name and phone of
the dealership.

-- 
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103409
From: butt@CAMIS.Stanford.EDU (Ayub Butt)
Subject: Toyota Coralla 1988 FX

For sale, 1988 Toyota Corolla FX, AM/FM radio, nothing else.
Low mileage - 28,000.  (I ride my bike to work.)

Dark Blue. Good condition. ONLY $3800.  

I am leaving the country for a year and must sell this
great city car.

CALL RENEE FECTEAU - (408) 924-5171 leave message.

Do not email to this account.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103410
From: gaia@carson.u.washington.edu (I/We are Gaia)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

In article <oprsfnx.735015349@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> oprsfnx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Stephen F. Nicholas) writes:
>daubendr@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Darren R Daubenspeck) writes:
>
>
>>> they are pretty much junk, stay away from them.  they will be replaced next
>>> year with all new models.  
>
>
>>Junk?  They've made the C&D lists for years due to their excellent handling and  
>>acceleration.  They have been around since about, oh, 85 or 86, so they're not  
>>the newest on the lot, and mileage is about five to eight MPG under the class  
>>leader.  You can get into a 3.0 L v-6 (141 hp) Shadow for $10~11K (the I-4  
>>turbo a bit more), and a droptop for $14~15K.  
>
>
> As an ex-Fleet Mgr. of 3000 cars, they were amoung the most trouble free of
>all models.  I bought one for my wife.
>


*nnnnnnnng* Thank you for playing, I cannot agree with this.  I believed
this and to put it nicely, it was a piece of junk!

I loved this car, I babied it, I pampered it, and after 2 years, it just
couldn't stay together, I would say that not everyone will have the
problems that I had, but know this, it's not just the car, it is the
ability to get the car fixed, which will NOT happen at any
chrysler/dodge/take your pick dealer.  I don't care if there are going to
reform their dealers/service with the intro of the LH cars, I will believe
it when I see it.  Case and point, the local dodge dealer.  You drive up,
just looking, you don't even get out of your door, when about 10 (yes 10)
salesman all eye you like their next meal, and literally pounce on you,
and try to get you to make a deal, on everything your eye wanders towards.
Service is about 2 times worse than that.  I had an alignment problem, but
they tried to tell me that the K frame was bent, and about 2000 dollars of
work/parts to fix it.  Let me tell you the problems I had, and I took care
of this car, I put alot of miles on it in the first couple years, but took
it to every checkup it needed, and many that shouldn't have been.

1988 Dodge Shadow ES

These were replaced within the 4 years that I owned the car.

Engine 
4 Alternators
Rear Suspension Torsion Bar
2 Water pumps
5 thermostats
Hall effect sensor
Main computer
4 Batteries

These were rebuilt/repaired

Radiator
Automatic Transmission
Power Steering


Those are just the things I can remember off the top of my head.  For
about a year before I sold the car, I said to myself, it's a good car, I
just can't find anybody competent enough the fix it.  In the end, before I
traded it in for a Saturn, the power steering started acting up again.  I
just stopped putting money into it.  I must have put at least $5000-$7000
worth of repairs over it's lifetime.  I am sorry but Lee Iacocca can bite
me.  Bullshit, whoever backs em best, is just afraid the stupid things are
going to fall apart, and no one will buy them without assurance, why the
hell do you think that LH has been nicknamed Last Hope.

You can do better, and I know people will disagree with me here, but
Japanese, like Honda, or Toyota, or the only american car company that I
feel is a quality product, Saturn.  I will not touch another chrysler
product again, no way.  I don't care how good the LH cars look good, and I
will admit they look promising, but not with the support that you get.  GM
isn't much better, thank god, they don't control Saturn, like they do
their divisions, or it would be just another marketing ploy.  

Don't get me wrong, i will be watching my car (which I do like) like a
hawk for the next 4 years.  I am much more hesitant to say it (or any) car
is really good, until it has proved itself to me.

But since someone else pointed out C&D as a source.  I will note, because
I used to read these magazines, that Car and Driver has never had a good
thing to say about most Chrysler products (Shadow for one), always were
they moaning about the reguritated K-car, and engine.  Whereas Motor Trend
always thought they were great cars.  No car magazine is really objective.

And although there are alot of people who don't like Consumers Reports, I
will use them to reinforce my argument (I already know about the big stink
with the Saturn crash tests, time will tell how good a car they are), the
shadow/sundance rate much worse than average, in fact none of the
chrysler's rate a better than average, I think the best one is just
average.  Excluding the diamond star/mitsubishi stuff and the LH's.  You
can find bad stuff about the Shadow.  Try as I might, when I researched
the Saturn, I could not find anything bad about it.  There is a great deal
of information about this company, just because it is a new american
company and it has created quite a stir in the automotive community, for
good reason.  Much more than the introduction of any new model lines of
any established company.  I read an article, which had a sub-column, an I
think this imprinted on me more than anything else.  Some big wig in
Toyota said and I quote, "We are watching them very closely."  Come on,
everybody grow up, the foreign cars, especially the japanese have been
kicking our butts, for good reason, the american car companies could not make
a good product or support the customer the way they want these days, to
set in their ways, which is one of the reasons Saturn was created.  They
are still struggling because they haven't learned yet.  They have the
ability, the workers are not inferior, the technology is not out of date,
but their attitude is, and they are just finding this out.  It's called
competition gentleman/women if you don't satisfy the demand of the
consumer, well your out..  

*asbestos suit on*

Gaia


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103411
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: BMW 528i

I looked at that Bimmer yesterday. It's an '81, has about 90kmi, according
to owner (odometer stopped working at 68Kmi). Drivess well, sounds good,
body is OK, he wants $3000.
i liked the car, despite it's auto tranny, but my wife will be a primary
driver on this one, and she wants auto.
The radio does not work untill the car warms up and you honk the horn (!)
The A/C seems to have a leak. 
The sunroof is sticky, but operational.
Odometer does not work, as mentioned before.
Idle is a bit bouncy, going from 900rpm to 1200rpm.
Wipers are slow.
That's teh gripes. The owner says that he changed radiator, alternator, 
rotors and calipers, exhaust.
The biggest problem, is that the owner is a shifty SOB, telling strange
stories. I hate that. I would never buy from a persom like that, except, how
often you see a descent 528i for that amount of money. He also said that,
although I could bring a mechanicin, he wouldn't let me check the car by taking 
it to a garage. Suspicious. And who knows what milage is on it.
So, let me know what to check for, given there's practically no rust.
I know there was an article on 528i in R&D a few years back, anybody remembers
what issue?
Mike.S

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103412
From: awhite@ssc.sas.upenn.edu (Andrew White)
Subject: Compilation of problems: 1985 Chevy Caprice

My 85 Caprice Classic with 120K+ miles has finally reached
the threshold of total number of mechanical problems that
I am forced to post :).  Anyone out there who might be
able to give me some pointers on one or more of the below,
please e-mail or post!

1. When making turns, especially when accelerating,
   there is usually a loud "thunk" from the rear of
   of the car.  Sounds like it could be the differential.
   What could cause this?  Is the differential going
   bad?  I recently had the differential fluid changed,
   and it DID have tiny metal bits in it.  (And no,
   the sound is NOT something rolling around in the
   trunk!)  

2. On starting the car, I get blue (oil) smoke from
   the exhaust for 5-10 seconds.  Exhaust valves
   going bad?  Worn rings?  Anyone know whether the
   valves on the 4.3 TBI engine can be lapped?

3. Brakes.  More pedal travel than I feel comfortable
   with, but master cylinder is full and fluid is
   relatively clear.  Pedal does NOT slowly sink to
   the floor when held down.  Pedal does not feel
   spongey, but I suppose that bleeding the brakes
   might help -- could anything else cause this?

4. Tranny.  Tranny problems seem to be slowly getting
   worse -- takes almost 2 seconds to downshift from
   3rd to 2nd on heavy throttle application, and more
   recently, it is reluctant to shift from 2nd to 3rd.
   Fluid (checked with car running with tranny put
   through all the gears and then back to park, as per
   Haynes manual) is red and clear, and is on full mark.

5. My springs all around are just about shot -- I have
   4 new shocks on, but car still skips out on bumps
   in turns at moderate to high speed.  How hard are
   they to change?  Can they be reconditioned?

I'd be interested in hearing from any GM full-size RWD owners
out there with stories to tell and/or advice.  Here in Philly,
these cars are apparently stolen(!) quite often and converted
into taxis.  Apparently the cab conversion shops will get a
junk title for the car or switch VINs with a car about to be
junked.  About 60% of Philly cabs are Caprice's, with most of
the rest being Crown Vic's with a few old New Yorkers and
Impalas (& Broughams).
-- 
Andrew White
awhite@mcneil.sas.upenn.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103413
From: lovall@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Daniel L. Lovall)
Subject: Buick heater controls

I have a '71 Buick Skylark with 148K on it.  I bought it in California, and if
it'll let me, I'd like to keep it for another year.  The only problem is these
Indiana winters--my heater controls don't work.

The car has vacuum operated control switches for the vents.  Right now it is
stuck in the "vent" mode.  It will blow warm air, but I can't switch the air
flow to either the floor (I can live without this) or the defrost (I can't 
live without this).  I probably could just jam the air deflector to the 
defrost position, but this blows a lot of air in my face and is, well,
kind of like putting a vacuum cleaner in reverse.

I have taken parts of the dash off and looked at the vacuum system and I think
the problem (or part of it) is with the two diaphragms which control up/down
and outside/inside air flow.  THe diaphragm which controls outside(vent)/in-
side(no vent) air is cracked most of the way around, and the other one is
probably damaged too, considering the advanced age of the car.

Two questions:

	1)  Is there anything I should be aware of about this (other than
	the fact that I should move from Indiana) ?

	2)  In the event that replacement diaphragms aren't available, is there
	a way to "fix" this?

THanks for any advice/info

selah,

Dan
lovall@physics.purdue.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103414
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Market Access

In article <1993Apr22.041452.27262@eecs.nwu.edu> andrew@eecs.nwu.edu
(Andrew Sung Hyun Kim) writes:
>...
>What about the rice import issue?  Of course, it is not closed up
>like a shell,  but how open is it compared to to US? 

Japan is _much_ more open than Korea.

Yes.  A Pontiac Grand Am suffers a factor of _2_ increase in price
when it is exported to Japan.

However, a Dodge vehicle (the one that Congressman Gephardt mentioned)
suffers a factor of _4_ increase in price when it is exported to Korea.
A Ford Taurus suffers the same problem.  A Honda Accord costs--I am
not making this up--$48,000 in Korea.

Just how many people would want to buy a Honda Accord for $48,000?

Solution:  All ships carrying Korean-made vehicles should be returned
           to Seoul.  Pronto.  Until as such time as Korea decides
           that it wants to abide by the rules of free and fair trade
           with the USA and Japan.

                                    ,,,  sayoonara
                                    o o /
--------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo-----------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                                     |   \|  |`
Imi ga nai yo.  Umarete kurou shite yatto shinde shimau.          |    | -+-
Semete shinde kara itsu made mo anshin dekiru.                    |   /| / \
Kami-sama, ima irasshaimasen ka.                                  |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103415
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: RE: IMPALA SS GOING INTO

-> Does that mean that they're gonna bring back the Biscayne and Bel
-> Air?

Or how about the 210?

george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org

George
                                                                                                             

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103416
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:


>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>have v engines.

>V4 - I don't know of any.
>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>V8 - Don't know of any.
>V12 - Jaguar XJS


> Please add to the list.


> Thanks,
> -S
> ssave@ole.cdac.com

	The Viper isn't an Inline 10 or Flat 10, is it?  I'm pretty sure its
a V-10.  Also, the Cizeta??? is a V-16, but it may not yet be more than a 
dream...


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103417
From: bep1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (bentz.e.puryear)
Subject: Re: Sport Utility Vehical comparisons? Any Opinions?

From article <1r1i7mINN4n4@cronkite.cisco.com>, by kmac@cisco.com (Karl Elvis MacRae):
> 
> 
> 	I just read articals on this in Road and Track and Car and Driver
> 	(Is that one mag or two? =B^), and I was wondering if people out
> 	there have any opinions that differed from what these mags have to
> 	say...
> 
> 
> 	I'm looking at the following three SUV's; anyone who's driven all
> 	three have any strong opinions?
> 
> 
> 	Ford Explorer
> 	Toyota 4Runner
> 	Nissan Pathfinder
> 
> 
> 	Currently I'm leaning toward the Toyota, 'cause I've had big success
> 	with Toyota trucks in the past, and 'cause I think it's the best
> 	looking of the three. But I thought I'd see if anyone has any strong 
> 	opinions....
> 
> 
> 
> 			Thanks!
> 
> 
> 	-Karl
> 

I agree that the Toyota is the best looking I just didn't fit plus it is the
highest cost of all the ones you mentioned. I have good friends who have all
three of the trucks you talked about, the ones with kids all went to the
ford because of the room required to carry a couple of kids and all the junk
you need. The single ones went for the Toyota and the Nissan. Every one has
been happy with what they bought. Although no one is into serious four wheel
off road driving.

> 
>   -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>   Karl Elvis MacRae	Software Release Support	Cisco Systems
>   kmac@cisco.com -or- batman@cisco.com     415-688-8231   DoD# 1999  FJ1200
>   -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> 	      "Shovels and rakes and implements of destruction"
> 						-Arlo Guthrie
-- 
====================================================================
Bentz Puryear (303)488-6120  (ncsc8!bep)     AT&T TSC
8300 E. Maplewood Ave.
Englewood, Colorado 80111        POWDER SKIING THE PATH TO SALVATION

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103418
From: robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson)
Subject: Re: Market Access

In article <1993Apr22.044605.29922@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1993Apr22.041452.27262@eecs.nwu.edu> andrew@eecs.nwu.edu
>(Andrew Sung Hyun Kim) writes:
>>...
>>What about the rice import issue?  Of course, it is not closed up
>>like a shell,  but how open is it compared to to US? 
>
>Japan is _much_ more open than Korea.
>
>Yes.  A Pontiac Grand Am suffers a factor of _2_ increase in price
>when it is exported to Japan.
>
>However, a Dodge vehicle (the one that Congressman Gephardt mentioned)
>suffers a factor of _4_ increase in price when it is exported to Korea.
>A Ford Taurus suffers the same problem.  A Honda Accord costs--I am
>not making this up--$48,000 in Korea.
>
>Just how many people would want to buy a Honda Accord for $48,000?
>
>Solution:  All ships carrying Korean-made vehicles should be returned
>           to Seoul.  Pronto.  Until as such time as Korea decides
>           that it wants to abide by the rules of free and fair trade
>           with the USA and Japan.

Now, now, before we get too carried away here....

Keep in mind that owning any car in Korea is a luxury that only the ruling
class can afford.  Every government agency worth its salt finds some reason
to levy a tax on car ownership; last I heard, there were seven different
fees to pay to own a car.  I believe this is the sort of petty bureaucratic
inefficiency that new President Kim Young Sam wants to eradicate.  Basically,
I think the rules came into place as bureaucrats from plebian backgrounds
wanted to wreak revenge on the ruling class.  In exchange, zaibatsu's like
Hyundai screwed over smaller companies, perpetuating a vicious cycle.
I have faith that Korean people can potentially build cars as well as anyone
else, but for now Hyundai cars seem to reflect the tensions within society,
of screwy components that won't work together.  Stubborn like a mule, the
car either won't go forward or won't stop at all.











Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103419
From: jg003b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Outatime)
Subject: Emergency Brake on '86 Nissan Maxima


	Just a quick, simple question really...

	How many wheels are affected by the emergency brake on an '86 Nissan
Maxima. I've heard that all four are affected, but this would seem unusual
to me. I thought the emergency brake on most cars only affected the rear
wheels. Also, how powerful is the emergency brake usually? Enough to lock
wheels at 30mph? Hmmmm... I just have to wonder about some of the things I
hear...

						Outatime ------->


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103420
From: jg003b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Outatime)
Subject: Thoughts on the VW Corrado VR6


	I was curious as to what people thought of the VW Corrado VR6?
That's about it...

						Outatime ------>


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103421
From: jfe@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Brian Chung)
Subject: Re: Market Access

In article <1r5acf$nh1@agate.berkeley.edu> robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson) writes:
>Now, now, before we get too carried away here....
>
>Keep in mind that owning any car in Korea is a luxury that only the ruling
>class can afford.  Every government agency worth its salt finds some reason
>to levy a tax on car ownership; last I heard, there were seven different
>fees to pay to own a car.  I believe this is the sort of petty bureaucratic
>inefficiency that new President Kim Young Sam wants to eradicate.  Basically,
>I think the rules came into place as bureaucrats from plebian backgrounds
>wanted to wreak revenge on the ruling class.  In exchange, zaibatsu's like
>Hyundai screwed over smaller companies, perpetuating a vicious cycle.
>I have faith that Korean people can potentially build cars as well as anyone
>else, but for now Hyundai cars seem to reflect the tensions within society,
>of screwy components that won't work together.  Stubborn like a mule, the
>car either won't go forward or won't stop at all.
>
	Hahahahahaha.  *gasp*  *pant*  Hm, I'm not sure whether the above
was just a silly remark or a serious remark.  But in case there are
some misconceptions, I think Henry Robertson hasn't updated his data
file on Korea since...mid 1970s.  Owning a car in Korea is no longer
a luxury.  Most middle class people in Korea can afford a car and do
have at least one car.  The problem in Korea, especially in Seoul, is
that there are just so many privately-owned cars, as well as taxis and
buses, the rush-hour has become a 24 hour phenomenon and that there is
no place to park.  Last time I heard, back in January, the Kim Administration
wanted to legislate a law requireing a potential car owner to provide
his or her own parking area, just like they do in Japan.

	Also, Henry would be glad to know that Hyundai isn't the only
car manufacturer in Korea.  Daewoo has always manufactured cars and
I believe Kia is back in business as well.  Imported cars, such as
Mercury Sable are becoming quite popular as well, though they are still
quite expensive.

	Finally, please ignore Henry's posting about Korean politics
and bureaucracy.  He's quite uninformed.
-- 
T. H. Brian Chung          | Happiness is...        | This .sig was brought
jfe@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu | "Tea, Earl Grey, hot." | to you by Frungy, the
jfe@cornella.bitnet        | 210 Lake St. Apt. 11-A | sport of kings.
CESR10::THC                | Ithaca, NY 14850       |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103422
From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
Subject: Honda clutch chatter

anyone else experiencing a similar problem?

This concerns the clutch on a 92 Honda Accord 5 speed. When the clutch
is first used in the morning, about the first 4 miles of shifting, there
is a significant amount of clutch chatter until things warm up.  Then the
clutch shifts smoothly.  This chatter started when I moved to the San 
Francisco Bay area from a low-humidity environment.  The dealer stated
that this is known to happen since Honda changed from an asbestos to
non-asbestos clutch material.  No remedy!! Seems that moisture on clutch
surface causes slipping until the moisture evaporates.

Any comments out there?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103423
From: bell@plains.NoDak.edu (Robert Bell)
Subject: Honda Civic/Saturn SL1 Info needed

To anyone with experience about Honda Civic (EX or DX) or Saturn SL1:

I would be interested in knowing how reliable these cars are, how expensive
they are to own and operate (parts, maintenance, gas, insurance), if the
dealers are good, and if they actually live up to their economy image.

Another question:  what would I expect to pay for a Civic EX coupe with
automatic, air, and an AM/FM radio?

Mail to the address below or post to this group.

Thanks, 

Rob

bell@plains.nodak.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103424
From: colello@cheshire.oxy.edu (Robert Colello)
Subject: Houston - Auto insurance.

Hello,
  I am moving to Houston to go to Rice University for graduate school.
I will be living on the corner of S. Mian and University Blvd.  I was
wondering what kind of liability rates to expect.  Here is the relevent
info.
      Sex: Male
      Age: 23
      Status: Single
      Commute: None, walking.
      Car: 1982 Ford Crown Victoria, 4 door

If anyone can check the above info, or is in a similar situation please
E-MAIL me the rates they find out or pay.  Thanks for your help in advance.

colello@delphi.com
colello@cheshire.oxy.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103425
From: pv9955@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: Buying a used car ...

I have a few questions about the TAX on  a used car purchase.
I live in New York State, and I am going to buy a used car.
I know that I will have to pay tax when I go to register the car.
But I would like to know of tax is payed on the book value of the car, or
on the purchase price.  Also, what tax rate is used ?  The owner lives in
Albany (8% tax), and I will be living in Saratoga with 7% tax.  
Do I pay Albany tax or Saratoga tax ?  (the difference is a whole $50)
One more thing, how much does it cost for the usual 2 year registration ?

Did I leave anything out ? What else might I have to know to purchase and
register a used car ?  (I've never done this before.)

Thank you,
Peter Volpe

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103426
From: jmiller@network.com (Jeff J. Miller)
Subject: Re: Need info on Porsche 914's

In article 6126@midway.uchicago.edu, buzy@quads.uchicago.edu (Len Buzyna) writes:
>Hi there,
>I've recently been toying with the idea of purchasing an old 914. The going
>rate seems to be about $4000 for cars with anywhere from 40-80K Mi.
>My question is this- what should I expect at this price? Should I expect to
>have extensive body work done? What about engine & transmission- should I
>likewise expect to have both virtually replaced? Along those lines,
>does anyone have the names & addresses of any mail-order parts
>suppliers for everything from engine to body parts? I'm completely new
>to the area of restoring cars, and as I don't actually do any work with
>cars, most of the work would have to be professionally done- what sould
>I expect the cost of upgrading a 914 to a rust-free, mechanically
>sound automobile?
>Thanks in advance,
>Andre 
>..
>

True 914 enthusiasts will be able to give you a better answer then this
but I'll dump my impressions.  I've wanted to own a 914 for about 10 years
now; came close once but I ended up buying a Fiero instead (biggest mistake
of my life!)

Anyway, for $4000 you should be able to get a nice car but your also set
in the price range to get taken by a nice looker that is a pile of shit.
The most common total failure for the car would be frame rust between the
engine and passenger compartment.  Also look for chassis welded together
here.  Oh yeah, the price range you are talking about must be the 4 banger;
a 6 (if you could find one) would be mucho more bucks.

Parts for the engine are pretty easy to come by (for an old car) and you
can even locate crude in the JC Whitney catalog if you have too.

The machine itself is pretty simple (they use the spare tire for windshild
washer instead of a pump fer chris sake!) so getting it fixed by a good
bug/porsche mechanic would be easy.  Since it is mid-engine you may spend
more on labor for any mechanical work.

--
Jeff Miller                 Network Systems Corporation
Internetwork Group          7600 Boone Avenue North
jmiller@network.com         Minneapolis MN 55428   (612)424-4888


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103427
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <Apr21.221608.22391@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.204521.21182@ultb.isc.rit.edu> adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>>The sound he describes is common to any older Toyota engine I ever heard.
>>I don't know the relevance of his observations about oil changes, my simply
>>makes noise. Not all that annoying, mind you. But you hear it well when the
>>engine is right behind your left ear :-)
>
>i think those with 1.6 MR2's would describe the engine as sweet if a
>little loud, those with 2.2 MR2's i can't imagine any unbiased person
>paying it any compliments.  sounded like my ex-dormmate's rusty chevy
>chevette.  with the 1.6 i would want to redline it just for the music,
>with the 2.2 i would short shift so that it would shut up..  the new
>camry 2.2 features balance shafts.  i guess since the mr2 is getting
>the axe, it is too late for them to do anything about this..
>
>it is no mystery that the turbo mr2 is "only" 2 liters.. the engineers
>had enough integrity to prevent any further abuses.  also, in europe
>the MR2 Mk2 non-turbo was also "only" 2 liters.. as usual, the
>undiscriminating american market (if it is japanese it *must* be good)
>gets the dogs.. to be fair, we also got the turbo, which the europeans

Well, the 1.6 IS music to my ears. I often turn my stereo off and just run
it towards red line on nice twisty roads. But Toyota engines at idle have
a strange "bells and whisstles at the bottom of a matal can" sound. I can't
describe it any better.
Just like all the older Benzes have a very characteristic clattering sound
at idle. Do you know what I'm referring to?
MIke.S


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103428
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?


In article <C5tB2F.585@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:


|> Manta's are also ve hot and fun cars too.

hahahahahahahahahahaha - thanks for that, I haven't laughed so much in 
ages!

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103429
From: oaddab@stdvax (DIRK BROER)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu>, davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes...
>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
> 
>I'm interestend in determining whether or not these things are true.
>Has anyone out there with Geico made a claim?  I'd be interested in
>hearing whether or not you were satisfied with the service and whether
>you then had trouble renewing your policy.
> 
>I'm also interested in any good or bad stories about Liberty Mutual or
>State Farm.
> 
Geico supports (reads gives to police) Laser Radars.  They have been known 
to be very picky.  No sports cars. No radar detectors (although Maryland 
insurance board over rules this consistantly). No turbos.

Basically it seems if you need to use your insurance ever they don't want 
you.  They once told me they wouldn't insure me (perfect record) because of 
my corvette even though it would be insured by another specialty insurance. 
 "We must insure all the cars".  I think this rep didn't know what she was 
talking about.

Geico is cheap.  But if you ever file a claim be prepared to be dropped.  I 
think in most areas two tickets will do it.

Geico will never see a dime from me If I can help it.

State Farm.  Slighty higher than most but very good response.  Not as picky 
as Geico. 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103430
From: singer@ll.mit.edu (Matthew R. Singer)
Subject: Opel-GT


--

Are the any Opel GT's out there? I'm wondering if there are enough to
starting a mail list...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew R. Singer                                    MIT Lincoln Laboratory
(617) 981-3771                                       244 Wood Street
singer@ll.mit.edu                                    Lexington, MA 02173
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103431
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: KEYLESS ENTRY... NOW HOW

Bruce James writes:


-> Without the key, though, the steering column 'lock' would have to be
-> sacrificed.

Not necessarily. Maybe some  sort of servo lock or something along those
lines could be used to acheive the same effect. Maybe a solenoid type of
thing too.

George Howell

     _____
  __|     |____            M   M   OOO  PPP   AAA   RRR
 /            /            MM MM  O   O P  P A   A  R  R
/___       __/             M M M  O   O PPP  AAAAA  RRR
    |______|               M   M  O   O P    A   A  R  R
 _________________         M   M   OOO  P    A   A  R  R
/                 \        :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
|      FORD       |        :'Better Living Through American Horsepower':
\_________________/        :George Howell                              :
                           :george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org      :
                           :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
                                                                                  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103432
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: RE: IMPALA SS GOING INTO

GM has always screwed the rest of the divisions in favor of the
Corvette. The current platform is no exception. The "detuned" Camaro and
Firebird is a load of crap to keep people from realizing that they can
buy one of these instead of a Corvette and save about $10,000.

I like the idea of an Impala SS, but if they really wanted to impress
me, they would throw in a big phat 454. Imagine the cops in their Taurus
police package 3.0 and 3.8 litres as they stare at your taillights...

George Howell

     _____
  __|     |____            M   M   OOO  PPP   AAA   RRR
 /            /            MM MM  O   O P  P A   A  R  R
/___       __/             M M M  O   O PPP  AAAAA  RRR
    |______|               M   M  O   O P    A   A  R  R
 _________________         M   M   OOO  P    A   A  R  R
/                 \        :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
|      FORD       |        :'Better Living Through American Horsepower':
\_________________/        :George Howell                              :
                           :george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org      :
                           :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
                                                                                                                        

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103433
From: <ICJPS@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

In article <C5yDwp.6G0@ncube.com>, bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) says:
>
>Either choice is good, but beware that
>I did not experience reasonable mileage
>with the V6.  Average city driving was
><15mpg, with about 21 avg. on the highway.

My Nissan Quest has been doing 20mpg city, though its first few tanks
were more like 17mpg.  The V6 and AT are remarkably smooth.
---
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johnny P. Stephens           | Sig file upgrade on backorder.  Will be
Distance Learning Technology | here "any day now."
Arizona State University     |  Opinions expressed are mine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103434
From: battan@sequent.com (Jim Battan)
Subject: Re: 300ZX or SC300???

In article <1993Apr19.000758.53229@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) writes:
>I'm getting a car in the near future.  I've narrow it down to 300ZX and SC300.
>Which might be a better choice?

Having driven both, and having owned an SC300 for 14 months now, all I can
say is "it depends".  They're both great cars.  In fact, my wife and I
are saving our pennies so we can get her the 300ZX convertible in a year.
The 300ZX handles like a dream, while the SC300 rides like a dream.
Fit and finish on both are excellent, but the Lexus gets the nod in
customer satisfaction.  They're both very attractive, and hideously
expensive.  The resale value of the SC is better than the ZX.  The
300ZX isn't available with traction control, which makes it a handful
on slippery surfaces.
-- 
Jim Battan - Sequent Computer Systems, Beaverton, OR
battan@sequent.com or uunet!sequent!battan
+1 503 578 5129

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103435
Subject: Re:  Geeko  (waz: Geico Annoyance)
From: alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung)

In article <C5w7GF.M5o@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>if you want to annoy geico, call them up...give fake name...but real car 
>specs..get a quote and then tell them they are more expensive than your 
>current state farm/allstate insurance.  they will still send you quote etc.
>then you can tear up their quote and stuff it in the prepaid return 
>envelope and mail it back to them.  actually they were $12 more than my current
>state farm rates.


Actually, I've had a bad habit of stuffing a whole bunch of other garbage
junk mail in along with whatever else into *anybody's* prepaid envelopes
until they almost burst.  I believe they pay postage by weight.
heh, heh, heh...

Anyways, don't tear up the quotes just yet...I sometimes use their
quotes or other insurance quotations as leverage to haggle for a
lower rate elsewhere.  Usually it works to *your* advantage if 
they are lower.

aaron


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103436
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?

In article 1r3n32INNk9p@ctron-news.ctron.com, smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.032905.29286@reed.edu>, rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr20.174246.14375@wam.umd.edu> lerxst@wam.umd.edu (where's my  thing) writes:
>>> It was called a Bricklin.
>
>>Bricklins were manufactured in the 70s with engines from Ford.
>
>Waitaminnit, didn't the Bricklin have an Pugeot six-cylinder?  Or am I
>confusing it with the DeLorean?  I was sure the DeLorean had a v8.
>

The DeLorean had the yucky PRV V6 engine. A joint-venture between Peugout (note 
spelling), Renault and Volvo. PRV. This engine is a *MIGHTY BORING* piece of
junk with approx 140hp. Doesn't like revs at all.

If you look at the DeLorean in the movie Back To the Future you will note
that they changed the engine sound to a big V8. A real DeLorean doesn't sounds
half as good. You will also note that every time they have to spin the tires
in the movie the ground is all wet. This is because a DeLorean can't make
a burnout on a dry road! The weak engine thats mounted over the rear axle
makes it almost impossible.

Markus
>Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
>-
>Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want,
>it is the freedom to do whatever we are able.





Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103437
From: erich.lim@yob.sccsi.com (Erich Lim) 
Subject: RE: MILITECH

jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen) writes:

-> I saw an interesting product in NY Auto Show, and would like to hear
-> your comments.
->
-> MILITECH(tm) is yet another oil additive. But the demonstration of
-> this product really impressive, if it didn't cheat.

  Well, I heard that Militech stuff works pretty good too.. One of my
friends who races in SCCA sanctioned events and all that stuff got the
Militech stuff early as a trial thing, and he put it in his CRX..  He
says it worked great, but I didn't ask him for any details.


-Erich
erich.lim@yob.sccsi.com
                                                                       
----
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ye Olde Bailey BBS   713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis)     |
|   Houston,Texas          yob.sccsi.com       Home of alt.cosuard       |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103438
From: jahonen@cc.lut.fi (Jarmo Ahonen)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane) writes:

>As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
>here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....
>-- 

Many cars sold here in Finland are *small* and *cheap* cars (at least when
compared to other cars --- note that we have over 120 % car tax).

And you couldn't expect a good auto mated to a 1.3 L engine?

Most of the bigger cars are, however, sold with autos.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103439
From: truesdal@david.wheaton.edu (Phil Truesdale)
Subject: MGB questions

My son is considering the purchase of a 71 MGB, which has been substantially
restored.  The odometer has rolled over, but we can't be sure of the actual
mileage.  The engine and drive train apparently weren't touched in the
restoration, except for a new carb and a few hoses.  He plans to do vacuum and
compression checks to see what they might tell us about the engine.  The body
and undercarriage have no visible rust, the interior is new, as are tires,
front brakes (not sure about the back), battery, bumpers and other misc parts.
The paint is checked in a few places, and scuffed here and there, allegedly by
a wind-blown car cover.  It seemed to handle OK, except for soft front shocks.
Questions:

Are there problem areas common to MGBs we should check out?

The brakes seem soft and rather ineffective; what should we expect in the way
of braking action?

It seemed to be "doggy" when accelerating from a stop.  What should we expect
it to do, given the 4-cylinder engine?

The top is in place, but will not reach a number of the snaps.  The weather
was cold.  Should the vinyl stretch and fit when it warms up, or is it forever
shrunk?

Is it normal for the wire wheels to be painted, or are they usually chromed?

Given this rather limited description, what would be a reasonable price?

Gee, this turned out to be a little long--sorry.  While my brother once owned
an XK120 Jag (what a car!) we're obviously not into sports cars.  Any help with
these questions, or suggestions on other things to investigate would surely be
appreciated.

Phil Truesdale
truesdal@david.wheaton.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103440
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Subject: States that charges sales tax after trade-in?

Which Western states have laws that charge sales tax on the difference between
a new car's price and the trade-in's value?  I know California charges you on 
the full value of the new vehicle regardless of trade-in.

If you are a California resident, is it legal to buy a car in a state other than
California without also paying California sales tax?  How does California 
enforce any law that requires you to also pay California sales tax (on top of 
the out-of-state tax)?

-- 
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103441
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


In article <1993Apr20.224622.21992@voodoo.ca.boeing.com>, tomm@hank.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey) writes:

|> >You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
|> >go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
|> >job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
|> >me - those kids are mean.
|> 
|> That is absolutely correct.  They have a streak of meanness that runs much
|> deeper and stronger than anything I ever experienced even during the height
|> of the 60's racial struggles.  I am absolutely convinced that there are
|> kids out there today that have no concept of right and wrong, but have the
|> human intelligence which is turning them into the greatest predators that
|> have ever walked the earth.  They will prevail unless the rest of humanity
|> decides that it is in their best interest to stand up against these feral
|> humans, and for individuals to start taking some responsibility for their
|> own protection.  In a state in which the individuals turn to the authorities
|> and police for protection, the police and government is soon composed of
|> the very feral humans that they originally sought protection from.

And I thought the nutters were the ones throwing the bricks from the
bridge.......

|> Gee, I guess you touched my hot button.  I'd better go cool off somewhere.

An institution?


|> Tom Mackey          (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.ca.boeing.com
|> Boeing Computer Services               ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
|> M/S 7K-20,       P.O. Box 24346,       Seattle, WA       98124-0346

kevinh@hasler.asco.ch

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103442
From: jdrout@scott.skidmore.edu (JTD is lost)
Subject: Honda New Car Info


From Kay Honda's "Helpful HInts ABout Your Honda" infromation sheet
(given to new owners of Honda vehicles).

"A burning smell may be evident from your new car shortly after taking
delivery."
--I now own a fire extinguisher;>--


"On Prelude S mels at temperatures above 32 degrees push the
accelerator pedal to the floor one time, release slowly, and with your
foot off the accelerator, crank the engine until it starts.  Moe than
5 seconds [!!!!!!! my note] of cranking may be required.  In
temperatures below 32 degrees the accelerator will have to be
depressed 2-3 times."

"Door panels and interior trim can be damaged if they are not buckled
by getting caught when closing doors."

"When shifting accord automatic transmissions from Park Neutral, or
Reverse into Drive the transmission shifts into 3rd gear."

"In case of towing:
	1- Start the engine
	2- Shift into drive from Park, then from Drive to neutral
	3- Turn off engine"
--what if you are getting towed b/c engine won't run?--

"IF ENGINE DOES NOT RUN DO NOT USE THIS PROCEDURE!"
--Phew, I was worried!--

		Insert smilies where appropriate, though this is REAL.

Jonathan

jdrout@scott.skidmore.edu
Skidmore College, Saratoga NY
93 Civic Si + aftermarket fogs (if you own one, you understand!)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103443
From: c23tvr@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Thomas Redmond)
Subject: Re: $6700 for hail damage - a record?


In article <1993Apr21.053516.28846@cactus.org>, boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
> In article <1993Apr20.203219.7724@pencom.com> stecz@pencom.com writes:
> >In article <1993Apr19.235711.7285@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)  
> >writes:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> My 90 Integra was hit hard in the 3/25 hailstorm in Austin, TX. 
> >> The insurance company cut me a check for $6600 ($100 deductible)
> >> last week.  Is this a record? Anybody else had settlements from
> >> the same hailstorm yet?
> >> 
> >> Craig
> >
> >
> >Rumor has it that a guy at Dell Computer had his Miata totalled, so that would  
> >be about $10k.
> 
> I guess it either had the top down, or the hail ripped through the top, as
> you could not do $10k worth of hail damage to a Miata body. 
> 
> Craig
> >
> >
> >--
> >--
> >  John Steczkowski                        stecz@pencom.com
> >    The Constitution grants you the right to life, liberty, and the
> >    *pursuit* of happiness.  It does not attempt to guarantee that
> >    everyone *will* be happy.
> 
> 
There was a Volvo owner that had $3000 dollars worth of improvements to the 
looks of the car by hail :).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103444
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

In article <C5uFLH.4p4@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> markg@sr.hp.com (Mark Goldsworthy) writes:
>I just bought an Altima (and like it very much) and yes there is a
>little Stanza logo ever so discretely placed on the trunk. The Altima is
>emblazoned in big silver letters, but the itsy-bitsy Stanza is shunted
>to the far left of the trunk lid. You can only see it if you get up
>close to the car and know where to look. It is very inconspicuous.
>
>In fact my first clue that this was a Stanza was that the owners manual
>called the car a Nissan Stanza Altima.
>
>Anybody know *why* Nissan did it this way?

To avoid paperwork associated with re-certification as a brand new car,
etc. So for ad purposes it's a brand new nameplate, for paperwork it's
still a Stanza.

Spiros


-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103445
From: michal+@cs.cmu.edu (Michal Prussak)
Subject: Re: Pennsylvania Insurance, Limited Tort Option

In article <34666@oasys.dt.navy.mil> glouie@oasys.dt.navy.mil (George Louie) writes:
>coverage.  This also applies to my existing car insurance policy.  Does
>anyone understand what the "Limited Tort Option" means.  Will it lower
>my rates if I opt to have it, or will it be more expensive if I opt
>to have it?  What does it do for me (in layman's terms please)?  Is
>it a good deal or should I ignore it?  I'm not the type to sue anyone
>at a drop of the hat nor am I the type to report every little ding to

Limited Tort Option will lower your rates. If you choose it, you can't
sue others for pain & suffering, but you still can sue for economic loss.
So you can sue for your wrecked car and for medical bills, but you can't
sue for $1000000 for pain and suffering.

At least, that's how I understand it.

Michal

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103446
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article Dxp@lut.fi, jahonen@cc.lut.fi (Jarmo Ahonen) writes:
>kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane) writes:
>
>>As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
>>here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....
>>-- 
>
>Many cars sold here in Finland are *small* and *cheap* cars (at least when
>compared to other cars --- note that we have over 120 % car tax).
>
>And you couldn't expect a good auto mated to a 1.3 L engine?
>
>Most of the bigger cars are, however, sold with autos.
>


I would guess the high price of gas in Europe (compared to the US) has
always favoured 4-cylinder manuals.

small engines with autos are a real bore...

But why not turn the question around, why are automatics so common in
the US?

My guess is that when they tried to couple manuals to the torque-rich
V8's in the sixties the clutches turned out as real killers you had to 
use both feet to depress, and that this has just lived on.

And also, an automatic with a V8 engine can be real fun to drive.

Markus


__________________________________________________________________________
   _    _     _     ____              _________        
  / |  / |   / |   /   / /  /  /   / /       
 /  | /  |  /__|  /___/ /--|  /   / /___     '75 Chevy Camaro 350/TH350
/   |/   | /   | /   | /   | /___/ ____/     '87 Peugout 205 1.4/4-speed

Don't ask what your car can do for you-ask what you can do for your car.  __________________________________________________________________________


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103447
From: gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Gallant)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)


I would gladly spend twice the money for insurance, rather than using
Geico.  Not only do they supply radar guns to the police they also want
to make radar detectors illegal.  They also ask if you have a detector
(probably to put you in a high risk group or just refuse to insure you).

I know a few people who were droped by geico due to an accident that
was not their fault.

Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103448
From: donald.wendel@yob.sccsi.com (Donald Wendel) 
Subject: Compilation of problems:


AW>>>My 85 Caprice Classic with 120K+ miles has finally reached
  >>>the threshold of total number of mechanical problems that
  >>>I am forced to post :).  Anyone out there who might be
  >>>able to give me some pointers on one or more of the below,
  >>>please e-mail or post!

AW>>>1. When making turns, especially when accelerating,
  >>>there is usually a loud "thunk" from the rear of
  >>>of the car.  Sounds like it could be the differential.

Wheel bearing, ujoint.


AW>>>2. On starting the car, I get blue (oil) smoke from
  >>>the exhaust for 5-10 seconds.  Exhaust valves

Bad valve stem seals.

AW>>>3. Brakes.  More pedal travel than I feel comfortable
  >>>with, but master cylinder is full and fluid is

Worn pads, rear brakes not adjusted up tight or worn out drums.
90% of low pedal complaints usually are from a rear brake problem.

AW>>>4. Tranny.  Tranny problems seem to be slowly getting
  >>>worse -- takes almost 2 seconds to downshift from
  >>>3rd to 2nd on heavy throttle application, and more
  >>>recently, it is reluctant to shift from 2nd to 3rd.
  >>>Fluid (checked with car running with tranny put
  >>>through all the gears and then back to park, as per
  >>>Haynes manual) is red and clear, and is on full mark.
Possible modulator valve if equipped with one. Also could be the
kickdoen cable.

AW>>>5. My springs all around are just about shot -- I have
  >>>4 new shocks on, but car still skips out on bumps
  >>>in turns at moderate to high speed.  How hard are
  >>>they to change?  Can they be reconditioned?
Difficult on front. Easy on rear. They are not expensive. about $75-$100
for front and less than $50 for the rear.

Its also kind of dangerous to work on the front springs without the
proper equipment.
                                                        Don


 * SLMR 2.1a * I put spot remover on my dog....Spots gone!
                                              
----
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ye Olde Bailey BBS   713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis)     |
|   Houston,Texas          yob.sccsi.com       Home of alt.cosuard       |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103449
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: .Extensions

I was wondering what the country extension are.
Sometimes I just don't have a clue from where
some people are writing.

These are the extensions I know of

ch   Switzerland
se   Sweden
fi   Finland
uk   UK
Com  US?
Edu  US?     (are both com and edu US?) 
fr   France

Please feel free to add to this list.

/ Markus

__________________________________________________________________________
   _    _     _     ____              _________        
  / |  / |   / |   /   / /  /  /   / /       
 /  | /  |  /__|  /___/ /--|  /   / /___     '75 Chevy Camaro 350/TH350
/   |/   | /   | /   | /   | /___/ ____/     '87 Peugout 205 1.4/4-speed

Don't ask what your car can do for you-ask what you can do for your car.  __________________________________________________________________________


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103450
From: eliot@engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: REVIEW: Audi S4 quattro

It's been a while since I've reviewed a car but today I paid a visit
to an old friend whose love for Audis has been so overwhelming that he
makes a not too sucessful living selling them.

Without further delay, I will get to the 1993 Audi S4:


1) Servotronic steering:

[For those who are not familiar with what Servotronic is, it is the
name for the speed variable power steering manufactured by ZF and
used in Audis and BMWs.]

I have been outspoken in my damming of Servotronic over the past
couple of months, and this was based on magazine reviews and drives of
the Audi 90 CS quattro and the Audi 100CS fwd.  I am quite happy to
report now that on the S4, the Servotronic is *inoffensive*.  I
suppose that due to the fat gumball tires, the Servotronic has been
loaded up more and this, so far has been the best implementation that
I have tried.  It is far from perfect, mind you, and I'd be much
happier if it was an option that I could refuse, but on the S4, I no
longer consider this to be bad enough where I feel the entire car is
ruined.

The steering is still a tad too light, but it is accurate and I
suppose the stiffly sprung chassis sends back so much information that
some makes it through to the driver's hands.  So there is feel and
there is accuracy in the S4's steering.  But there is also room for
improvement.  I consider the S4's steering to be better than the
Japanese competition, primarily because the Japanese do not believe in
"feel" and engineer it out completely.


2) Engine

Wheee! What a pressure cooker.  With just 110 miles on the clock I did
not expect the S4 to be producing anywhere close to what it will be
putting out 10000 miles later, but still, the car packs a terrific
punch.  For a turbocharged machine, it is very unusual in that it
encourages lazy driving.  i.e. low revs, high gear.  It is so
supremely flexible that one could hardly believe that there's only 2.2
liters of displacement to move this 3700 pound car around in such a
fashion.  With maximum torque available at 1950 rpm and a 7200 rpm
redline, the car can pretty much be left in third all day.. which
translates to a speed range of something like 20-100 mph.  A
chracteristic that one normally associates with large capacity V8s.
The technical achievement is breadthtaking.

Throttle response is right up there with a good atmospheric engine. In
fact, it would even put peaky multivalve engines to shame. Downshifts
are almost unnecessary.  It is more fun to use the "overboost" feature
than to rev the engine.  For those not familiar, the S4 engine features
up to 15 seconds of additional turbo boost for passing.  Sort of like
lighting up the after burners in a jet fighter, one could, with the
right foot only, in third gear, blast the car from 30 to 80 in just a
few moments.. simply by flooring the gas.  As far as the numbers go,
maximum torque available in overboost mode shoots up to about 270 lb
ft.. incredible for a 2.2 liter.  It takes a few moments for it to
develop overboost but it is well worth waiting for.  Since this is quite
a heavy car, one's body parts are not flung around like say, the Corrado
VR6.  The acceleration is smooth and strong, somewhat similar to riding
in a jetliner as it accelerates down the runway on takeoff.  Also, one
is treated to a very distinctive and entertaining whistle from the
turbo.. the only entertaining sound to come out of a very
refined but bland sounding 5 banger..

Yes, Audi has refined the 5 to the point where at 7200 rpm it sounds as
serene as it does at 2000.  The smoothness is outstanding, but not quite
up to the standards of a very good 6, e.g. a 12 valve BMW.  I'd say that
in terms of refinement, i.e. willingness to rev, smoothness, lack of
harshness under full acceleration it is better than many V6s.  However,
lost in the refinement process is the characteristic 5 cylinder bark
that made the older engines so characterful, if not terribly refined.
The 20 valve turbo 5 sounds pretty bland except for the whistle under
full boost.  Subjectively, I'd rate the VW VR6 engine as being far more
musical than the turbo 5.. Also, Audi's own V8 is also far more musical,
with a rorty race car growl when pressed,  though none of these can
match its grunt.

The only hint of the engine's true capacity occurs when one is taking
off from rest after the turbo has come to a near stop.  With the extra
inertia from the permanently engaged 4wd system, one has to be somewhat
delicate in feeding in the clutch to prevent an embarassing stall. 
Alternately one could use more revs.. In both cases a very small price
to pay for such a fantastic engine.  I think that Audi of America should
offer an automatic option for this car, just as they offer (though in
extremely small numbers) a 5 speed for the much peakier V8.  The
characteristics of the engine are perfect for an automatic.  Ironically,
in europe a slush is available but none is offered for the land of the
slush.  Marketing twits rearing their ugly heads again...


3) Chassis

I've noticed that Audis tend to have very wide wheels and relatively
modest tire widths.  The car comes with Firestones of size 225/50 ZR16..
which is not uncommon at all.  However, the very attractive 5 spoke
wheels are no less than 8 inches wide, so there is no sidewall bulge
whatsoever.  Combined with the flared wheel arches, the S4 has a mouth
watering macho, yet subdued look. 

On rough concrete, it becomes immediately clear that the new 100 body
style has made significant advances in structural rigidity as well as
road noise suppression.. I suppose the two are inter-related, but I
digress.  To use a cliche, the S4's body feels like it has been carved
out of stone.  Flex is totally undetectable, even when going over rough
roads.  With a super rigid body like this stiff springs and stiff dampers
do not cause excessive harshness and while the S4's ride quality will
never worry a Lexus, it will also not draw comparisons to trucks or
pony cars.

The servotronic steering has already been mentioned.  I consider it to
be inoffensive because it did not inhibit spirited cornering.  I  was
able to test the car's cornering powers without too much trepidation. I
think a new concept is at work in this car.  With its fat gumball tires,
talking about understeer or oversteer is practically meaningless.  On a
banked highway on ramp, I went in slow and started applying power as I
went around.  I could feel the g forces build to the point where the
skin on my face was being tugged sideways.  Yet the car was totally and
completely obedient to throttle and steering inputs.. It felt that the
limits were not even close to being approached.  The g forces were
thrilling, but the entire affair of going around a curve is strangely
uninvolving.  You tell the car what you want and it does it.  End of
story.  I think that I am starting to relate more and more to those
reviewers who were highly impressed by the Honda NSX's clinical
efficiency but were unable to fall in love with the car.

The brakes have a very good firmness to them and stop the car pretty
well too, though I've read that they are prone to fade.  I am not too
surprised, since the S4 does not have uprated brakes over the base Audi
100 fwd. Harder pads would help, but that in turn would lead to a more
wooden response when cold.  I am starting to see a trend among the
luxury/sports sedan makers where extra weight is not being offset by
additional braking capacity.  The LS400's fade performance is nothing to
brag about; neither is the Q45's or the Legend's.  Brake fade these days
seem to be a forgotten virtue when everybody's attention is focused on
anti-lock capability.


4) Comfort

For a car with such sporty abilities, its comfort levels are also
excellent.  The cabin is beautifully appointed, with carbon-fiber panel
inserts in place of the wood trim of the '92 S4.  All the expected
gizmos are there.. heated seats, power seats, seat memory, power this
and that.  The glaring ommision was the trip computer, which was removed
because Audi hasn't gotten it to work reliably yet.. That means that the
car has no boost gauge.  A real disappointment taking into account how
much the turbo dominates its performance.  

Unusual for the germans, the S4 comes with a Honda style moonroof, as
well as the very intelligent dial-a-sunroof-position rotary switch.

Noise levels, including engine and tire noise is so low that I wouldn't
consider the Lexus' advantage in this area to be significant enough
to sway a potential buyer.


5) Conclusion

Even though few will be able to afford an Audi S4 at its sticker price
of $48K, the car is a bargain if one takes into account what it has to
offer over the competition.  The 20 valve turbo 5 is a real gem, even if
it doesn't produce Ferrari sounds.  No other luxury/sports sedan maker
offers the utter security of quattro all wheel drive, which to some is
worth the extra money all by itself.  The safety features are also 
top notch.. 1994 side impact standard compliant, the very elegant 
automatic seat belt tensioners and the dual airbags.  The 100 series
Audis have been outstanding in government crash tests.  It gets my
thumbs up for being so overwhelmingly capable rather than being
all out exciting and intoxicating.


eliot


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103451
From: jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: Houston - Auto insurance.

In article <1993Apr22.045328.630@cheshire.oxy.edu> colello@cheshire.oxy.edu (Robert Colello) writes:
>
>Hello,
>  I am moving to Houston to go to Rice University for graduate school.
>I will be living on the corner of S. Mian and University Blvd.  I was
>wondering what kind of liability rates to expect.  Here is the relevent
>info.
>      Sex: Male
>      Age: 23
>      Status: Single
>      Commute: None, walking.
>      Car: 1982 Ford Crown Victoria, 4 door
>
>If anyone can check the above info, or is in a similar situation please
>E-MAIL me the rates they find out or pay.  Thanks for your help in advance.
>
>colello@delphi.com
>colello@cheshire.oxy.edu
>

My suggestion look at your current insurance card, there will be a name 
accross the top telling you which insurance company you are insured by.
Call information in Houston and get the number of a branch office in the 
Houston area, call the insurance company.

Your rates will vary depending on the amount of coverage you want,
do you want to carry comp and collision (probably not on an 82),
what your driving record is.  You mentioned none of these things in your
posting so how can anyone give you accurate information.

Like I said, pick up the phone and make a few calls, it won't kill you.


Jeff




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103452
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: service indicator of a BMW

Derek....

There is a tool available to reset the service indicator on BMWs but the lights
will come back on after 2-3 weeks. The tool is in fact illegal (in Europe 
atleast). It is often the case that the unsuspecting punter trots off to buy a 
used BMW and a few weeks later, all the lights come on! Other than that, I know 
of no other tool.... anyone else? 

About changing oil every 15,000 miles.... thats ok.... on newer Audis, they 
only require it after every 12,000 miles (I am talking about an oil change)
Just a query: do you drive your car VERY VERY carefully? Like no sudden 
acceleration etc? If yeah, then the 15,000 M oil change seems quite reasonable.
But if you drive kinda fast... I'd get a bit up tight abot that 15,000 thingy

(a point to note: just because the first light came on at 3k, doesn't mean
all the others will come on every 3k too)

							....Shaz....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103453
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

Just a quick note on the nwe shape MR2s in the UK.... 

When they first came out here, there were 3 models. The base model had an 
auto box and engine from the CAMRY 2.0 !!! Well I recentyl found out that this 
model is no longer profitable for Toyota and have since scraped it. I've also
noticed that auto MR2s have depreciated a lot more than the next model up...

Surprise surprise huh? Oh.... you lucky Americans have the turbo MR2 :-(
No such luck over here :-(
						....Shaz...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103454
From: sjcostan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Scott J Costanzo)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

     I used to drive a truck a few years back. I once rode with an old codger
that had been driving for about 30 yrs. The only time he would use the clutch
was to get the truck moving. He could shift that 13 speed lightning quick, up
or down, without the slightest rake of a gear. He was as smooth as silk. It was
the most amazing shifting demonstration I've ever seen! Having said all that I 
still don't know why anyone would want to shift a synchronized tranny without a
clutch? Why do it?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103455
From: rick@posms.aus.tx.us (Rick Kirchhof)
Subject: Re: A/C Service Rip-off

In article <1993Apr23.155215.2838@chpc.utexas.edu> ivab015@chpc.utexas.edu (Albert Wu) writes:
>I went to a place called American Car Care Centers to check my car for A/C
>leak.  After "checking", I was told that there is a leak in the compressor
>seal.  At the end, in addition to the labor for the check, I was charged 12
>dollars for a pound of freon, although they evacuated my A/C afterwards
>because of the leak.  First, is it fair for him to charge me for a pound of
>freon ($12 plus tax) ?  Second, what can I do about this if this is unfair ?
>
>-- Albert Wu.

For the information of those not "lucky" enough to live in the city of
Austin, TX, if an auto a/c system is checked and found to have leaks,
it must be repaired at that time, or evacuated.  This is an ordinance
unique (I think) to the city of Austin.

Freon is subject to increasing taxes, but $12 is about 2X cost here.
Recovered freon is not required to be "purchased" from the car it is
withdrawn from.  As a matter of practice, some shops here are charging 
a recycling fee that is less than the cost of the freon removed if it 
is reintroduced to the system.

Just another quality service from an _Enviornmentally Conscious_ city.

-- 
Rick Kirchhof   Austin, Texas                   | Experience is what you
Domain: rick@posms.aus.tx.us                    | get when you don't
Bang path: .....!cfi.org!posms!rick             | get what you want.            
===========================================================================

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103456
From: bsw@utrc.utc.com (Bruce S. Winters)
Subject: Re: Warped brake discs on '91 Taurus L

In article <1993Apr14.225821.13000@advtech.uswest.com> joe@advtech.uswest.com ( Joe Thielen) writes:
>Xref: sun1x rec.autos:5997 misc.consumers:3163
>Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.consumers
>Path:
>sun1x!actcnews!psinntp!psinntp!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs
>.ohio-state.edu!csn!cherokee!joe
>From: joe@advtech.uswest.com ( Joe Thielen)
>Subject: Re: Warped brake discs on '91 Taurus L
>Message-ID: <1993Apr14.225821.13000@advtech.uswest.com>
>Sender: news@advtech.uswest.com (Radio Free Boulder)
>Nntp-Posting-Host: absoraka.advtech.uswest.com
>Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
>References: <1993Apr8.161136.8994@bcrka451.bnr.ca>
><Dmerrill-130493170436@47.140.3.216> <1993Apr14.132206.19001@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 22:58:21 GMT
>Lines: 23


>In article <1993Apr14.132206.19001@ryn.mro4.dec.com> balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com
>(Antonio L. Balsamo (Save the wails)) writes:
>>
>>From: Dmerrill@bnr.ca (Dana Merrill)
>>Subject: Re: Warped brake discs on '91 Taurus L
>>
>>   > Anyone else had the same problem ?
>>
>>       Well, I have an '92 Taurus GL.  Apparently they still haven't fixed the
>>   problem with the rotors.  I've got 26K miles on the clock and I'm getting
>>   the rotors (and pads) replaces tonight...at my expense of course.
>>
>>   Tony
>>--
>>

>I owned a Ford Mustang 4 that had endless brake problems.  The bad
>thing was that it had all other kinds of problems too.  Spent 2 months
>in the shop in the first 2 years I owned it (bought new).   So I got
>rid of it, and will more than likely not buy a Ford product in the
>future.  The thing that really ticked me off was how Ford treated me.
>They were such jerks it was unbelievable!

>-- Joe


In the past few years I have owned 3 Mustang GTs and now own a 91 T-Bird SC. 
They all have had this problem. There was a recall on the T-bird for the brake 
problem. The Ford dealer replaced the rotors and pads but the rotors warp 
after about 10K miles. Between this problem and the fit and finish problems on 
the T-Bird I'll never buy a Ford again.

     
Bruce S. Winters			BSW@utrc.utc.com
United Technologies Research Center 	E. Hartford Ct. USA 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103457
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

jahonen@cc.lut.fi (Jarmo Ahonen) writes:

>kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane) writes:

>>As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US  
>>while here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....
>>-- 

>Many cars sold here in Finland are *small* and *cheap* cars (at least when
>compared to other cars --- note that we have over 120 % car tax).
>And you couldn't expect a good auto mated to a 1.3 L engine?
>Most of the bigger cars are, however, sold with autos.

Here in Australia most cars are manual (privately owned anyway).  Why?
Not sure, I think it has something to do with the fact that our car industry
in the past was more closely aligned with Europe than the US in the past.
Now it's aligned with Asia.

Scott.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103458
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: Honda clutch chatter

In article <185900001@hpindda.cup.hp.com> jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) writes:


> From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 22:01:32 GMT
> Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
> Path: eclipse!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpcss01!hpindda!jimb
> Newsgroups: rec.autos
> Lines: 12
> 
> anyone else experiencing a similar problem?
> 
> This concerns the clutch on a 92 Honda Accord 5 speed. When the clutch
> is first used in the morning, about the first 4 miles of shifting, there
> is a significant amount of clutch chatter until things warm up.  Then the
> clutch shifts smoothly.  This chatter started when I moved to the San 
> Francisco Bay area from a low-humidity environment.  The dealer stated
> that this is known to happen since Honda changed from an asbestos to
> non-asbestos clutch material.  No remedy!! Seems that moisture on clutch
> surface causes slipping until the moisture evaporates.
> 
> Any comments out there?


I have been having problems with a slightly different clutch problem on
my 90 Prelude. See rec.autos.tech for more detail. My problem is a false
engagement point below the actual one. It also seems affected by weather -
it is most noticeable (and annoying) on damp or cold days. My dealer says
he can't reproduce the problem - I think I'll just sell the car.

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103459
From: glouie@oasys.dt.navy.mil (George Louie)
Subject: Re: Nissan Nomenclature (was Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted)

In rec.autos, grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas) writes:

>What we currently know as the 240sx, is known elsewhere as a 200sx.
>
>--
>Graham E. Thomas                  *  blah blah blah blah blah

This is kind of interesting.  I always assumed that the 240SX was named
because of the 2.4 liter engine which it uses.  Likewise for the 200SX
which uses a 2.0 liter engine.  Isn't this true?


George

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103460
From: Steven Ritter <sr0o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pennsylvania Insurance, Limited Tort Option

In my opinion, the limited tort option is the best thing Casey has ever
done. Basically, limited tort means that you give up your right to sue
for pain and suffering, unless one of the following conditions is met:
1. Your medical bills resulting from the accident exceed $X (where X is
some number like 50,000 -- I'm not sure of the exact number)

2. The accident was caused by a drunk driver (I mean, the OTHER driver
was drunk)

3. You get a good lawyer and have a good case (basically, you can appeal
to regain your right to sue, but there's almost no chance of this ever
happening).

You are only giving up your right to sue for pain and suffering; you can
still sue for medical costs, actual damages, etc. By agreeing to limited
tort, you are essentially giving up your right to be an asshole who
treats every accident as an entry into the litigation lottery. In
exchange, you get a substantial reduction in your rates. I save
$150/year.

Unfortunately, the insurance companies have managed to scare and confuse
people so much that only about 5% of Pennsylvanians go for limited tort.
I guess that's OK -- If more people opted for it, the insurance
companies would be pushing harder for repeal.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103461
From: "Daniel U. Holbrook" <dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?

The Bricklin was a car manufactured by a company started by Malcolm
Bricklin, who, I believe, was Canadian.  He was the first one to import
Subarus, and later was responsible for importing Yugos, I believe. 
Anyway, he had this idea that what would really sell would be a sports
car, but one incorporating a bunch of innovative safety features.  The
Bricklin was built to be that queerest of beasts, the safety sports car.
 If any of you remember the early 70s movement among car makers to
design "experimental" safety cars, you will recognize the general
appearance of the Bricklin - big 'ol bumpers, etc.  Anyone recall other
safety features?  The engine was an american v-8, Ford I think is right.

Personally, I kinda like the way they look, and if I remember from the
old magazine articles, the performance was only half-bad.  The choice of
colors, though, tended towards the 1970s lime green - yech - but highly
visible, I suppose.  

The Delorean, on the other hand, was a dog - nice looking (IMO) but no
motor at all.  
Dan
dh3q@andrew.cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University
Applied History


  "I have standards. If you don't like them, I have others." 
               Groucho


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103474
From: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Re: Honda clutch chatter

In article <185900001@hpindda.cup.hp.com>, jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) writes:
|> anyone else experiencing a similar problem?
|> 
|> This concerns the clutch on a 92 Honda Accord 5 speed. When the clutch
|> is first used in the morning, about the first 4 miles of shifting, there
|> is a significant amount of clutch chatter until things warm up.  Then the
|> clutch shifts smoothly.  This chatter started when I moved to the San 
|> Francisco Bay area from a low-humidity environment.  The dealer stated
|> that this is known to happen since Honda changed from an asbestos to
|> non-asbestos clutch material.  No remedy!! Seems that moisture on clutch
|> surface causes slipping until the moisture evaporates.
|> 
|> Any comments out there?

The clutch on my '92 Honda Civic EX-V (EX in the U.S.) does this too.
It's annoying.  Now that I think about, it _is_ worse when the humidity is
high.  The dealer also claims there's nothing they can do since the clutch is 
a "self-adjusting hydraulic design".  Yeah, right.

-- 
Doug Zolmer           Internet: dwjz@bnr.ca         Disclaimer: My opinions only
Bell-Northern Research Ltd.  Ottawa, Ontario, Canada         |
Dept. 7N61 - Service Control Point - Routing Services Design | Conform:- Moooo!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103475
From: klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5srIB.6AH@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
| In article <1993Apr19.145238.9561@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
| >anything if he hadn't emptied his gun into the asshole.  Texas--it's
| >whole other country.
| 
| That reminds me of one of Texas's ads...you hear a guy speaking in
| French (like it's a letter home), then the French moves to the 
| background, and a French-accented voice come to the foreground, talking
| about how he went walking on the beach, and it felt so much like
| home that he decided to take his shoes off...and the rest of his
| clothes. It ended with "please send bail." :-)
| 
| >On an rec.autos note, does anyone carry a gun on them or keep one in
| >their car (which is bad idea, isn't it?) if you work in a bad part of
| >town (or regularly go through one)?  Is this a loaded question?  :^)
| 
| I normally have an unloaded Colt Delta in my glove box with a loaded
| magazine handy (which is perfectly legal in Oklahoma). For those
| times that I'm travelling inter-state, I keep an unloaded 
| S&W .44 Magnum revolver in the glove box, with a speed-loader
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| in my pocket (which is legal everywhere, under Federal law, Illinois
| State Police be hanged).
| 
| As I've said before, this is stricly for defense; my insurance
| will pay to replace my car, but I only have one life...
| 
| 				James
| 

Carrying a pistol, loaded or unloaded, in the glove compartment, is
considered carrying a concealed weapon in Colorado and is illegal without
a concealed weapons permit.  Unless the law has been changed recently,
carrying a weapon openly is legal in Colorado but concealing it is illegal.
I read a newspaper account last year where police stopped a car on a
traffic infraction and observed a .357 magnum revolver sitting on the
seat.  The driver could not be cited for possessing or carrying the weapon
because it was not concealed.  The article stated that if the gun had
been discovered in the glove box, it would have been considered a crime.

--
Ken Franklin 	They say there's a heaven for people who wait
AMA     	And some say it's better but I say it ain't
GWRRA           I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
DoD #0126       The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103484
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: what is the deal with "blue-book" value of an auto?

newton@convex.com (Vicki Newton) writes:

>i am in the process of buying a new auto.  i haven't decided yet whether
>i should sell my current car myself or trade it in as part of the new
>auto purchase.

>i know that the "blue book" value for the car is $2825.  an acquaintence
>has offered to give me blue book value for the car.  i am just wondering
>if this is a standard measure for negotiating a resale price or if i
>can hope to get more money from someone else.  what exactly is blue book
>value based on?  i know that for its year (88) my car has low mileage
>(< 50,000).  it is in excellent working condition but does have a few
>dings on the exterior (nothing major).  do any of these facts alter the
>fair selling p[rice of the car?  i am not looking to rip anyone off, i
>just naturally want to get the best price for the car.

>thanks a million,
>veek

	I think the Blue Book is the NADA handbook for used car prices, no?
	Is the Blue Book value given the retail or wholesale value???  The 
	Blue Book value isn't set in stone, though.  Low milage, extra addons
	and stuff like that there can increase the resale price of the car, you
	may want to head on over to the local library or borrow your friends
	Blue Book and read up on that sort of stuff.  I paid ~$400 under BB
	(retail) for my '87 Civic in 1990, and it was in perfect condition and
	had only ~14.5K miles on it.  The guy was desparate to sell, new kid on
	the way, etc., but it was a good price.  Remeber, both you and the 
	buyer, if he has any sort of brains at all, are using the Blue Book, so
	you should pick a fair price.  


				Chintan Amin
				llama@uiuc.edu

-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103491
From: fowler@esmlsun.gatech.edu (c b fowler)
Subject: Re: what is the deal with "blue-book" value of an auto?

In article <1993Apr22.143709.13360@news.eng.convex.com> newton@convex.com (Vicki Newton) writes:

>i am in the process of buying a new auto.  i haven't decided yet whether
>i should sell my current car myself or trade it in as part of the new
>auto purchase.

>i know that the "blue book" value for the car is $2825.  an acquaintence
>has offered to give me blue book value for the car.  i am just wondering
>if this is a standard measure for negotiating a resale price or if i
>can hope to get more money from someone else.  what exactly is blue book
>value based on?  i know that for its year (88) my car has low mileage
>(< 50,000).  it is in excellent working condition but does have a few
>dings on the exterior (nothing major).  do any of these facts alter the
>fair selling p[rice of the car?  i am not looking to rip anyone off, i
>just naturally want to get the best price for the car.

>thanks a million,
>veek

A dealer will make money off you in three ways, if you let him:

	1)  New car markup over his cost (remember his hold-back),
	2)  Arranging financing through the dealership, and
	3)  Screwing you on the trade.

Keep the deal with the dealer simple by eliminating 2 & 3.  Buying a car at 
"dealer's cost" is meaningless if he makes $1000 on the trade and/or gets a 
kickback from the bank.

Blue book (you need to know if you're talking average wholesale or average 
retail) is a good guide to value for a car.  If you are selling it yourself, 
try to get average retail, and chances are you'll have done ok.

Be careful selling to acquaintances if you ever want them to become friends.

c. b. fowler  gtri/esml
chris.fowler@gtri.gatech.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103493
From: orscholz@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Oliver Scholz)
Subject: Pontiac option codes wanted

Does anyone have a listing of Pontiac's three-letter option codes and
what they mean?

Thanks.

-Oliver
---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oliver Scholz                                                         DG4NEM
Graduate Student of Computer Sciences at the University of Erlangen, Germany
"You're killing me, Peg!"  "Oh, shut up, Al, like I care..." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103494
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the VW Corrado VR6

In article <1993Apr22.052857.9758@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> jg003b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Outatime) writes:
>
>	I was curious as to what people thought of the VW Corrado VR6?
>That's about it...
>
>						Outatime ------>
it hauls butt, handles nice, but is junk.  i drove a brand new one for a day
as a loaner.  the key was already rusting...seems they stamp their keys out
of pot-metal.  all the controls seemed really junk...clutch was heavy.
door locks, power buttons, sunroof controls etc.  seemed really cheap.
no way i would pay 24k for this baby.  no airbag either.  i also drove a svx
for a day...stickered at 30k, but going out the door for 21k...a much better
buy, imo.  although it is more of a sports touring coupe...roomy etc.
the corrado is more of a small sports car.  the ergonomics and leather in the
svx was twice as nice as the corrado's.  both had smooth strong engines.
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103495
From: scheer@faw.uni-ulm.de ((T.M.))
Subject: MARTEN (PROBLEMS)


Hi everybody ...

Well I don't know if this is a known problem
to you in the big state but over here in Europe
it is in some places ...
It just happened to me and I payed A LOT to get my 
new Honda Civic repaired.
A marten choose my car to stay one night in and this
damn little animal damaged almost everything which
was plastic/rubber ..
I never thought that these little #@%##@ could do that
much damage.

So to ALL you car owners out there :

Is there a GOOD known method of gettin' rid of  this animal ???
except for waiting all night long beneath my car with a gun ???

HELP IN ANY FORM WOULD BE APPRECIATED VERY VERY MUCH !!!!



e-mail: scheer@faw.uni-ulm.de



Thanxxxx y'all
 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103496
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: geico annoyance

if you want to annoy geico, call them up...give fake name...but real car 
specs..get a quote and then tell them they are more expensive than your 
current state farm/allstate insurance.  they will still send you quote etc.
then you can tear up their quote and stuff it in the prepaid return 
envelope and mail it back to them.  actually they were $12 more than my current
state farm rates.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103497
From: blf@apollo.hp.com (Barry Frishberg)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?

From article <1993Apr21.190251.14371@sequent.com>, by troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker):
> 
> Earlier I commented on the Valentine-1 and jimf@centerline.com replied
> about the value of the units "bogey" counter.  I didn't really go into
> why I called this feature a gimmick so here is more explanation.  Thanks
> Jim for the good comments and opinion.
  .
  .
  .

> From what I understand the Valentine-1 can only tell if these
> microwaves are coming from the front, rear or both.  There are only
> two antennas.  If they are coming from both this in interpreted as a
> "side bogey".  Bogey counts are determined as sources by their
> relative strength to one another even if they are reflections of the
> same source.
  .
  .
  .

It sounds like your analysis is based on hypothesis and not
actually using the Valentine-1.  I'd like to give some feedback based on
real life experince.  I keep the Valentine-1 in advanced logic mode
and it rarely lights up as a Christmas tree.  The only time it does
is when I am in the middle of a major shopping area and then it makes
sense that is does since there are >= 8 sources coming from many different
directions.  I have found the Valentine-1 to be consistent in its
reporting of bogeys regardless of any moving cars in the area.

I have found the directional indication to be very useful.  In one case
there was two radar traps set up within one mile of each other.  As I
passed the first radar trap, the direction indication changed.  Then
the detector was set off again pointing in the forward direction.  With
other radar detectors I would have assumed that this was due to a reflection.
But with the Valentine-1 I knew there was a high probability that there
was another trap.  And there was!

On other occasions, the directional helped discern a false alarm from
a true alarm.  For example, as I pass a source, the direction indicator
changes.  The directional also allows me to focus my attention as to where
the signal might be coming from instead of having to look all over the 
place.  When a car is approaching me from the rear with a detector
that leaks, I can tell that the signal is coming from the rear and as the
car passes me I can verify the source.  With other detectors, I would
have been unable to do this and would have had to assume that there was a radar
trap when there was none.

I've had the Valentine-1 for several months now and find its added features
to be useful and not gimmicks.

                                       -Barry
-- 
-----                                                                   --------
Barry Frishberg                                             blf@apollo.ch.hp.com
Chelmsford-UK Expert Center                                      508/TN 436-4319
Chelmsford, MA                                                 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103498
From: "Jason M. Roth" <jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)


>Still its amazing in Germany you can have cars traveling 155 mph and 65
>mph  on the same 3 to 4 lane road.  Around Washington DC they can't
>keep traffic  flowing at 55.

Germans are just more organised; you can't blitz all of Europe in a
matter of , what, 9 months, unless you're pretty organised. If we tried
that, there'd just be a whole bunch of tanks backed up at the border,
waiting for some jerk in the right lane trying to get over to make a
left turn.

"This, of course, caused Germany to invade Belgium. One of the important
lessons of history is that anything, including late afternoon
thundershowers, will cause Germany to invade Belgium."
--Dave Barry

Happy Motoring!

JMR

'93 SL2, blue-green

"He's the most inventive asshole I've ever met; he really puts a lot of
energy into it....."

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103499
From: rmakarem@usc.edu (Total Stranger)
Subject: HELP with 89 Mitsubishi Galant GS Transmission

Hi,
I need your help with a problem I have with a 1989 Mitsubishi
Galant GS transmission.  The car has a 5 speed manual tranmission.
Since the car was bought new, while shifting from 2nd to 3rd,  unless 
I do it SLOWLY and carefully, it makes a "popping" or "hitting" sound.
The dealer and Mitsubishi customer service (reached by an 800 #) say 
this is NORMAL for the car.  IS IT?
And about a year ago, at 35Kmiles, the stick shift handle got STUCK
while attempting to put it in reverse:
   1- The shifter would not budge.  The clutch had no effect.
   2- The front tires would not budge, even when the clutch is
      fully depressed.
   3- If the clutch is released the engine would die.
   4- Assuming that some gear was engaged while the shifter was
      stuck, I could not make the car move.  It acted as if
      it were in Neutral(except for dying when clutch is released.)
   5- I finally was able to release the shifter by having 
      someone rock the car back and forth (less than an inch),
      while I depressed the clutch and jiggled the shifter.
   6- The shifter acted normally after that.

When this happened, I took it to the dealer, they checked the 
clutch, it was o.k. They checked the transmission, it was o.k.

I had the exact problem a couple of months ago, and again last
week.  The dealer says there is nothing they can do because 
Mitsubishi (the 800 #) says they have never heard of the
problem, and the dealer could not reproduce the problem while
they had the car.  
In all three occurances, the car was parked head first in a garage,
and since the front wheels were stuck, the car could not be towed
to the dealer before releasing the shifter (hence temporarily
solving the problem).  And the dealer, and Mitsubishi, refused to
send someone to check the car while it was stuck. 
I KNOW there is smething wrong with the transmission (shifting 
from 2nd to 3rd), and getting stuck at random, but I can't get 
the dealer to fix it. I need your help with the mechanical problems, 
and with how to handle Mitsubishi.  
All hints and suggestions are greatly appreciated, and sorry to
bore you with the long post.

Thanks,
Rabih.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103500
From: jafo@miranda.accum.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Subject: Re: Choice of gauges

In article <C5yBo4.E5I@vcd.hp.com> dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Gauge) writes:
>If you had free reign to design your own instrument cluster, which
>gauges would you choose to have beyond the basic set?

Turbo boost is necessary if a turboed car.
Fuel reserve warning.
Coolant level warning.

It would also be nice to have a gauge that would cycle across the different
sensors in the FI system such as O2 sensor, altitude, Air Flow...

I'd love to get Tranny and diff.
Brake temp would be great...

And a BIG ASS tach.  :)

Sean
-- 
From the labs of Balderrama, Mitchell, Reifschneider, and Wahlstedt, Inc.
Sean Reifschneider, Ruler of the Realm
jafo@accum.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103501
From: gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan)
Subject: Drag Coefficients

Could someone explain how to make sense of drag coefficients (i.e Cd) mentioned in magazines.  I understand that lower numbers signify better aerodynamics but
what does this mean in the real world.  Is there a way to calculate new top speeds(assuming the car is not rev limited at top speed) or mileage benefits if a identical car had the Cd reduced from .34 to .33.

Thanx

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103502
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Alarm systems: are they worthwhile?

Talking about car alarms, there are certain cars in this country that are 
only insurable if they are fitted with a Vecta alarm. We're talking Coswoths
and Porsches and stuff. Just before they (the insurance companies) decided to 
make this move, they insisted that the car be fitted with a Scorpion alarm (
now they've changed to the Vecta)... so everyone who's spent $$$ on fitting 
the Scorpion alarm have founbd themselves having to upgrade to the Vecta system.

Sad huh? :-(					...Shaz...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103503
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: comparing saabs & bmw's

I dont know about Saabs but whenever there is a 'long temr tset' in a magazine
they always say that tehy're are little annoying niggles which keep on occuring
every so often... I wouldn't expect that from such a 'quality' car.... why 
doesn't anything like this ever happen on BMWs? Maybe coz they're 'quality'
cars ;-) 

<shrugs (repentently!) >  			....Shaz....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103504
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti                             

Yeah... and BMW 525e has 2.7 litres
		535      3.4 

BTW - can someone out there please tell me how to put someone else's file 
on and then reply to that so the other person's file and my own 'reply' go
to the newgroups together? (ps: just mail me personally) 

Thanx in advance.... 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103505
From: chuck.lampman@gstrf.gatech.edu (Chuck Lampman)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

Enough, already. Let's take this discussion to some other newsgroup
that's more appropriate. Most of us are tired of it and would like to 
get back to old cars, IMHO.

Chuck Lampman (chuck.lampman@gstrf.gatech.edu)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103506
From: mcculloc@sps204.lds.loral.com (Thad McCulloch)
Subject: Re: Autos dealer

In article <1993Apr22.143529.20494@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> tvl@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (lam,thanh) writes:
>I got a price quote of $18,875.00 for a Camry V6 w/ABS from a Toyota dealer in 
>Eatontown. I came back to that dealer in two weeks to sign a purchase agreement.
>Then I was told that the salesperson made an error in pricing. I walked out of 
>that dealer. I wonder if this kind of practice is common with Toyota dealers ?
>Is the price quote written on the salesperson's business card binding?
>I would appricate any comments.


I had a similar experience.  We had a written quote which had been mailed
to us from the salesman at one of these "no-haggle" Toyota dealers for
a Camry XLE w/ABS, leather, etc.  The price seemed fair, but when we
went in to take them up on their offer, they "discovered" that certain
extra cost items hadn't been included in their original written quote.
It would have totaled an extra $1100 and, in spite of the fact that we
had a written quote, they said there was nothing they could do.

Bottom line, quotes from salemen are worthless and it appears to me that
the Toyota dealers think they've got such a superior auto that they
don't have to deal.  We walked, went out and bought a new LH car
(Eagle Vision TSI) and I don't regret it one bit!

--
Thad McCulloch
mcculloc@mail.lds.loral.com


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103507
From: guo@acuson.com (Xiaocong Guo)
Subject: Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:

>My wife and I looked at, and drove one last fall. This was a 1992 model.
>It was WAYYYYYYYYY underpowered. I could not imagine driving it in the
>mountains here in Colorado at anything approaching highway speeds. I
>have read that the new 1993 models have a newer, improved hp engine. 

>I'm quite serious that I laughed in the salesman face when he said "once
>it's broken in it will feel more powerful". I had been used to driving a
>Jeep 4.0L 190hp engine. I believe the 92's Land Cruisers (Land Yachts)
>were 3.0L, the sames as the 4Runner, which is also underpowered (in my
>own personal opinion). 

>They are big cars, very roomy, but nothing spectacular.


>( ___ )-----------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
> | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email: tvervaek@cs.itc.hp.com        | \ |
> | / | Hewlett Packard Co.    Phone: 719-590-2133                  | \ |
> | / |                                                             | \ |
> |___|          I love animals. They taste delicious.              |___|
>(_____)-----------------------------------------------------------(_____)

The Land Cruiser has a L6 4.5 engine which has 200 hp and 280 torgue, when I 
drove it here in california, power is more than enough. The high price is 
the only reason I did not buy it.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103508
From: nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?

hhd0@harvey.gte.com (Horace Dediu) writes:

>In article <nataraja.735341980@opal12>, nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan) writes:
>|> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
>|> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
>|> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).
>|> 
>|> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
>|> something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
>|> diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
>|> install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
>|> of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
>|> different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
>|> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
>|> gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...

>This really bugs me.  The emissions of diesels are the cleanest of any vechicle,
>but they are considered so polluting that they are banned in passenger cars
>in California.  What a bunch of crap.  Diesel is the fuel of choice for 
>enviromental benefit in Europe while here it's illegal for the same reason.
>
>The particulates are nothing but carbon.  They are just an annoyance at worst.
>Nothing beats the diesel cycle for efficiency and emissions, torque or engine
>durability.  It's also cheaper.

Just to clear things up (as to why I posted the question that way)...
I was debating with a co-worker about diesels.  I claimed they were
cleaner-burning than gas engines.  He said the extra "junk" put out by them
was offset by the savings in greenhouse gasses.   I made all the SAME claims
you did.  But, one question of his was what about the carbon?  I said it
was harmless, but he wanted to know how to get rid of it.  I suggested
scrubbers.  (I figured it would be no harder or more expensive to install
than "cats".)  Does there exist any designs for a scrubber?  (I'd like
to know just to answer his final question.)  I convinced him that diesels
are cleaner otherwise.

BTW, (I named my subject "Dirty Diesels" because I knew it would get a reaction
out of people who knew they were cleaner than gas engines and that they'd
read it...)
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Vel Natarajan  nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL  --
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103509
From: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

Remove LEGEND from the V-8 list, it's a 6.
-- 
Steve Morris, M.A.    : Internet: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu
Addiction Studies Pgm : uucp    :{uw-beaver,uunet!gtenmc!dataio}!sumax!smorris
Seattle University    : Phone   : (206) 296-5350 (dept) or 296-5351 (direct)
Seattle, WA 98122_____:________________________________________________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103510
From: johnk@opel.secondsource.COM (John Kennedy)
Subject: Diatribe on US-sold Opels (was Re: Opel owners?)

>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>
>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>I am quite interested in it.

That would be the Opel GT, sold in this country from '69 to '73.  It originally
had a 1100 cc engine, which was later replaced by the 1900 cc.  It was based
on the old Kadett drive train and suspension, with leaf springs in the rear
and a single transverse leaf spring in the front.  It looked good, but was
limited as a performer.

There has also been some discussion in this thread about the Manta and other
models.  In 1971 Opel introduced a new line of models, the 1900 series, that
were also known as model numbers 51, 57, etc.  These cars had the newer
1900cc engine and were available as two and four-door coupes, a station wagon,
and a "sport coupe", known in Europe as the Manta.  At the same time, there
were two 30-series cars, which sold very few numbers, that also had the 1900
engine but the Kadett suspension.  The sport coupe, (model 57) was also
available as the Rallye, (57R), with a blacked out hood, tach, and fog lights,
but was mechanically the same except for a numerically higher rear end ratio.

In 1973 the sport coupe was also named the Manta in the US.  1973 was the last
year for the GT in any country, both because of the US bumper height regulations
and the fact that FIAT exercised an option on the factory that Opel was leasing
to build the GTs.

The 1900 series continued in 1974 with minor body differences.  In 1975, the
Manta, 1900 sedan (also called the Ascona) and the wagon were available with
Bosch electronic fuel injection.  These cars also had larger brakes and
wider wheels.  These cars were starting to compete with the 1975 Buick Century
low price leader of the time, and were the last Opels imported into the US.

From 1976 to 1979, cars that sported Buick/Opel badges were still sold by
the Buick dealers, but were rebadged Isuzu I-marks.  The idea was to call them
Opels instead of changing the dealers' neon signs.

Various models of the 50-series cars dominated the Showroom Stock racing of the
70's in their class, and were known as serious 2002-competition.

Parts are still available from a number of sources.

(I still have a '73 manta and two '75 sedans and all the trick parts I could
collect in 20 years).
-- 
John Kennedy                     uunet!opel!johnk
Second Source, Inc.              johnk@secondsource.COM 
Annapolis, MD

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103511
From: dan@dyndata.uucp (Dan Everhart)
Subject: Honda Headrest Stuck!  Advice Please!

An aquaintence has a 87 Accord.  The driver's side headrest was
accidentally put in backwards and has jammed.  According to the
dealer, the only way to get it out is to spend several hours
disassembling the seat.  This is the second time I have heard of this
happening, and I wonder whether there's an easier way to get the
headrest back out.  Has anyone else ever dealt with this problem?
Your advice would be appreciated!

Please email, and I will summarize if there is interest.

--
   _                                         dan@dyndata.com
  / \_   Dan Everhart                        uunet!{camco,fluke}!dyndata!dan
  \_/ \____________________________          206-743-6982, 742-8604 (fax)
  / \_/                                      7107 179th St SW
  \_/    Dynamic Data & Electronics          Edmonds, WA 98026, USA 

"Rhe rone rike, rhe rone rike... rhorane" -- Astro sings "Cocaine"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103512
From: chmilar@apple.com (Michael Chmilar)
Subject: Re: MBenz 300 series, VW Passat

jcorry@erasure_sl.cc.emory.edu (Jeremy Corry) writes:

>new 300 series Mercedes Benz wagon...
>Particularly, I would like to hear about power (manual t. only)...
>Any comparisons between the Saab 9000 line and the Mercedes would be helpful.

If a manual transmission is a "must have", then the M-B 300TE is not in
the running.  You cannot get a manual transmission in that car in North
America.  It seems that buyers here (or, maybe more accurately, the
distributors) are not interested in manual trannies.

The '93 300 line comes with a 217 hp engine.  All earlier years are 177 hp.
I have an '87 300E, with a "mere" 177 hp and auto tranny, and I find that
it has sufficient power for any normal driving situation.  More is always
nice, but I can't complain.

I test drove a Saab 900 CSE last fall.  Here are my impressions:

1) Awesome power, especially over 3500rpm, when the turbo really comes on.
2) If you get on the power really hard in a tight corner, the front-wheel
   drive causes it to understeer heavily, and then viciously "hook" into
   the corner.  Not a desirable handling trait, but common in powerful
   front drive cars.  (The CSE is 200hp.  Mercedes is rear-drive, so it
   does not have this problem.)
3) Huge interior and cargo space.
4) The most "rubbery" shifter I have ever encountered.  I drove a 5spd.  It
   was absolutely numb.  You might be able to get used to it - I don't know.
   I also didn't like its location, which was too far down, and too far right.
   From the shifter's position, I got the impression that Saab really designed
   the car for an automatic.
5) It was rather noisy:  Engine buzz, rattles, and creaks.  (Mercedes does
   not exhibit these characteristics.)

You should also check out the new BMW 525 "touring".  This is a wagon version
of the 525i.  It fits into the class with the 300TE and Saabs.

--
Michael Chmilar
chmilar@apple.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103513
From: alan@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Alan S. Mazer)
Subject: Re: what is the deal with "blue-book" value of an auto?

Mail bounced, so...

In article <1993Apr22.143709.13360@news.eng.convex.com> you write:
>i am in the process of buying a new auto.  i haven't decided yet whether
>i should sell my current car myself or trade it in as part of the new
>auto purchase.

Traditional wisdom says you are almost certainly better off selling it 
yourself if you don't mind that extra hassle.  Having a trade-in on a purchase
just makes getting the best price from a dealership more confusing.

>i know that the "blue book" value for the car is $2825.

I assume this is _retail_ bluebook.  There are two bluebook prices, one for
retail and one for wholesale.  You really want the retail price if you can 
get it.  The blue books also have adjustments you can make for low mileage
and extras on your particular car.  You should look all this stuff up yourself.
Also keep in mind that the blue book prices are averages over the country
that may not apply in your area.  For example, blue book prices are low for
California.  A better way of finding out how much your car might be worth is
to call around and see what it's selling for (if any used lots have one) or
looking in local papers for similar cars and checking out the prices.  It 
might be more time efficient to take a small loss (rather than hold out for
6 months for the best price).

>an acquaintence
>has offered to give me blue book value for the car.

I don't know what you mean by "an acquaintance" but I would make darn sure
that I was paid, that is, cashier's check in full before delivery.  There's
a real temptation when selling to a pseudo-friend to be more accomodating
than you should.  Make sure you get the money and if they hedge about paying
in full at the start (with a cashier's check or cash) then I would go
elsewhere.  Rememeber that you can probably sell your car to a used car lot
or wholesaler and get wholesale bluebook.  That's probably a safer approach
than selling to a private party.
-- 
 
-- Alan                        # Mountain Dew and doughnuts...
   ..!ames!elroy!alan          # because breakfast is the most important meal
   alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov     # of the day.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103514
From: hhtra@usho0b.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu>, davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
|> I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
|> they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
|> worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
|> also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
|> 
|> I'm interestend in determining whether or not these things are true.
|> Has anyone out there with Geico made a claim?  I'd be interested in
|> hearing whether or not you were satisfied with the service and whether
|> you then had trouble renewing your policy.
|> 
|> I'm also interested in any good or bad stories about Liberty Mutual or
|> State Farm.


 Stay away from GEICO.

 A recent CAR & DRIVER issue has an article about GEICO giving free
 laser guns to police departments to increase they're speed limit
 enforcement.  The article also said that if you get a speeding ticket
 your premium will increase dramatically based on how much "over the
 limit" you were.  If I remember correctly, at "more than 20 over",
 you'll get something like a 65% increase. 

 If you have a radar detector, you will be denied coverage or dropped
 immediately. 

 One accident claim and you will be dropped.
 After many years with GEICO, my father who had 0 tickets and had made
 0 claims, had an accident and filed an $800 claim.  He was dropped 
 immediately.  Since then he has been with State Farm for years with
 no complaints.

 I have been with State Farm for about 20 years - no complaints.


 TRAVIS

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103515
From: yavo@sdosrv2.gvl.unisys.com (Steve Yavorski)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

In article <C5yDwp.6G0@ncube.com> bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
>
>Curiously (and consider these are test
>vehicles), I found the Mercury higher
>in build quality than the Nissan.
>
This is very curious being that they are both built by Mercury in the
very same factory.

Steve

Stephen Yavorski			internet - yavo@ivy.paramax.com
NEXRAD Integration			phone    - (215) 443 - 7500
Paramax Systems Corporation
Ivyland, Pennsylvania

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103516
From: petebre@elof.iit.edu (Brent A. Peterson)
Subject: Re: Drag Coefficients

In article <1993Apr22.165444.11830@wdl.loral.com> gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) writes:
>Could someone explain how to make sense of drag coefficients (i.e Cd) mentioned in magazines.  I understand that lower numbers signify better aerodynamics but
>what does this mean in the real world.  Is there a way to calculate new top speeds(assuming the car is not rev limited at top speed) or mileage benefits if a identical car had the Cd reduced from .34 to .33.
>

    I don't remember the formula's off hand as it has been awhile since
I took aerodynamics and haven't used the stuff since. 
The Cd is related to the drag force which is what effects top speed and
fuel consumption. When the drag force on the car or aircraft is greater
than what the vehicle's engine can overcome it has reached its top speed.
(autos of course also have to overcome rolling resistance)
Since drag opposes the vehicle's motion, the engine must make up for that
by burning more fuel. Anyway, since the geometery of an auto is rather
complex, the Drag,pressure coeffiecent,etc is either found experimentaly, or
using a numerical method.

anyway for flow around a cylinder the drag coeff is:

            Cd = d/(q*2R)

       where d is the drag force, q the flow velocity and R is the radius
of the clyinder.
   To get a rough (very rough) estimate, you can set R at 1/2 the car's
width, q at the car's speed and knowing the Cd, find the drag force that
the car would need to overcome. 


     -Bp

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103517
From: chellis@nyx.cs.du.edu (charles ellis)
Subject: Re: what is the deal with "blue-book" value of an auto?

It's a toll for insurance companies and auto dealers to rip you
off in case of accident or trade-in.

Charlie Ellis
chellis@nyx.cs.du.edu
--
Charlie Ellis
chellis@nyx.cs.du.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103518
Subject: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO
From: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 


GK>Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse.  The shifter
GK>refuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to
GK>get it into gear.  I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple
GK>of months.

Enter 1st, wait 2-3 seconds and then go into reverse.  They use the same
synchros, and you'll never (at least I haven't) ground-em-to-fit when using
this technique.
                                                                                 
----
The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us)   A PCBoard 14.5a system
Houston, Texas, USA   +1.713.466.1525          running uuPCB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103519
Subject: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO
From: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 


GK>I hear that tires for this car can get really expensive.  I
GK>currently have Goodyear GT+4s that cost the previous owner $500
GK>for four.

Try Eagle GAs, wear better, cost less, lose little handling, and are
quieter.  I'm going to switch to 225s in my next set, with new rims
(Fitti Twists) if I can afford 'em by the time my GAs wear out.

GK>is a whole new ritual for me with that fangled pedal!  Also, I began
GK>to wonder how strong that brake really is.  (Today, I backed out of
GK>parking spot today and started to drive away before I noticed
GK>the glowing brake light.  Oops.)

Mine is strong enough to not let the car move when it's in, even if you're
giving it enough gas to normally move it in 1st.  You might need a brake
adjustment.

GK>The driver's power window creaks when closed all the way.  The same
GK>thing happens in my parents 1989 Mercury Sable.  Oddly, all the
GK>other windows work smoothly.

Watch it closely, the glass actually flexes from the torque in the motor, it
seems stronger in the drivers window then the others.

GK>I'm liking the interior amenities more and more each day.  The
GK>cupholders are great.

I've found the location (under the armrest in between the seats) to be a
pain, but like having them.  They moved it into the dash (pop out) in the
'91 model year, MUCH better.

GK>I really feel like I don't deserve this car.  I really can't
GK>believe that I could afford it.  I got this car ten years
GK>ahead of schedule.  :-)

I did the same thing.  Got a black '89 with 65.5k miles on it for $8k
in July '92.

GK>I've put together the responses to my questions about the cars, as
GK>well as other posts with useful information on these cars.  I'll be
GK>posting this in the form of a FAQ soon.

Grabbed it and archived it.  Thanks!

GK>If anyone is interested in starting a mailing list, please speak up!
GK>I don't know if I have the resources here at Purdue to start one, but
GK>maybe someone out there does.

I'll be starting one this summer, one way or the other (current software
I use dosen't support mailing lists, but is on the RSN list - if not, I'm
going to upgrade to another package that DOES have it), that is, if nobody
else beats me to it.  Will make an announcement here when it goes up.
          
----
The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us)   A PCBoard 14.5a system
Houston, Texas, USA   +1.713.466.1525          running uuPCB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103520
From: RZAA80@email.sps.mot.com (Jim Chott)
Subject: Re: Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

In article <2820016@iftccu.ca.boeing.com>, hovnania@iftccu.ca.boeing.com
(Paul Hovnanian) wrote:
> 
> Based on my experience with a '79 FJ40 ( the hard-top jeep-style model ) I 
> would definitely give a new model consideration if I were in the market. The
> older models are VERY well built. Unless Toyota lost its mind, I would
> assume, until  proven otherwise, that the newer models have inherited some
> if not all of the qualities of their ancestors.
> 
> Two major differences in the running gear (that I'm aware of) need study.
> My '79 has a solid front axle housing whereas the newer models have
> independant front suspension. The solid axle is theoretically stronger and


The new Cruisers DO NOT have independent suspension in the front.  They
still
run a straight axle, but with coils.  The 4Runner is the one with
independent
front.  The Cruisers have incredible wheel travel with this system. 

> more reliable than the newer model, but only experience will tell. The
> independant front suspension is, no doubt, a compromise made to satisfy
> the typical user, who will never need a real utility vehicle. The second
> difference is the type of transfer case used on the newer models. I'm
> not sure, but I think Tioyota went to a full-time 4WD or all-wheel drive
> system. The older Landcruisers have a "lock-up" type. Both have their
> advantages and disadvantages.
> 
The 91-up Cruiser does have full time 4WD, but the center diff locks in
low range.  My brother has a 91 and is an incredibly sturdy vehicle which
has done all the 4+ trails in Moab without a tow.  The 93 and later is even
better with the bigger engine and locking diffs.


Jim Chott                            85 Toyota 4WD pickup
rzaa80@email.sps.mot.com             72 LeMans Sport Convertible
Tempe, Arizona

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103521
From: RZAA80@email.sps.mot.com (Jim Chott)
Subject: Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

In article <1r3sbbINN8e0@hp-col.col.hp.com>, tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom
Vervaeke) wrote:
> 
> My wife and I looked at, and drove one last fall. This was a 1992 model.
> It was WAYYYYYYYYY underpowered. I could not imagine driving it in the
> mountains here in Colorado at anything approaching highway speeds. I
> have read that the new 1993 models have a newer, improved hp engine. 
> 
> I'm quite serious that I laughed in the salesman face when he said "once
> it's broken in it will feel more powerful". I had been used to driving a
> Jeep 4.0L 190hp engine. I believe the 92's Land Cruisers (Land Yachts)
> were 3.0L, the sames as the 4Runner, which is also underpowered (in my

The 91 and 92 Cruisers run the 4.0L straight 6 which only has about 150hp 
and 220lb-ft of torque.  Plenty off-highway, marginal on the highway.
The 93 has a much improved 4.2L straight 6 with >200hp and 275ft-lb torque.

> They are big cars, very roomy, but nothing spectacular.

If you take them on rough trails, you'll see the difference.  The Cruiser
is an order of magnitude better in off-highway ability.

Jim Chott                            85 Toyota 4WD pickup
rzaa80@email.sps.mot.com             72 LeMans Sport Convertible
Tempe, Arizona

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103522
From: kinter@girtab.usc.edu (Fireball)
Subject: Any opinions on early 80's Toronado??



	Having had my car die on me(engine fire, insurance agent said
it was probably totaled), I am in the market for a another vehicle.
I saw a Toronado that was within my expected price range and was
wondering if anybody could relate their experiences with me.

Namely:  1.  Does it have accceptable power(it has a 305 in it)?
	 2.  Does its being front wheel drive make maintenance difficult?
	 3.  One power window and the power seat do not work, are these
		expensive items to replace if I do the work myself?
	 4.  How long do the engines usually last( 90M+ now)?
	 5.  Any other experiences good or bad, and opinions.

Thanks
Ryan Kinter
kinter@scf.usc.edu






Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103523
From: rogerh@Autodesk.COM (Roger Hupfauer)
Subject: Re: Too fast

dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
> In article <1qh61m$b6l@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
> >
> >If the Mustang and/or SHO platform were designed for 130mph, it would
> >come with better seatbelts, more supportive seats, a stronger
> >passenger compartment cage, better brakes, a stiffer suspension,
> >different tires, and a body design that takes advantage of aero
> >effects to keep the car on the ground.
> 
> In other words, it'd be a 1993 RX7.





Yeah, and then we'd pay $30,000.  Go with a 5.0 LX Mustang.  Most bang for your 
buck.








Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103524
From: rogerh@Autodesk.COM (Roger Hupfauer)
Subject: '87 Grand National

Does anyone have one of these that would care to share
some information on?  I concerned about the turbo.  
How reliable is it?  How's the gas milage.

Please responde to me, not here.

Thank you.

Roger

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103525
From: dholt@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Dennis J. Holt)
Subject: Re: Honda clutch chatter

In article <1993Apr22.141927.15716@bnr.ca> dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) writes:
>In article <185900001@hpindda.cup.hp.com>, jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) writes:
>|> anyone else experiencing a similar problem?
>|> 
>|> This concerns the clutch on a 92 Honda Accord 5 speed. When the clutch
>|> is first used in the morning, about the first 4 miles of shifting, there
>|> is a significant amount of clutch chatter until things warm up.  Then the
>|> clutch shifts smoothly.  This chatter started when I moved to the San 
>|> Francisco Bay area from a low-humidity environment.  The dealer stated
>|> that this is known to happen since Honda changed from an asbestos to
>|> non-asbestos clutch material.  No remedy!! Seems that moisture on clutch
>|> surface causes slipping until the moisture evaporates.
>|> 
>|> Any comments out there?
>
>The clutch on my '92 Honda Civic EX-V (EX in the U.S.) does this too.
>It's annoying.  Now that I think about, it _is_ worse when the humidity is
>high.  The dealer also claims there's nothing they can do since the clutch is 
>a "self-adjusting hydraulic design".  Yeah, right.
>

One of the reasons I sold my '92 Civic VX was the chattery-grabby clutch
although I din't notice it being any worse in humid weather, perhaps because
its always humid around here.  I was told by Honda that it has to do with
changing from asbestos to non-asbestos linings, which began around 1990.
Someone could make some good money selling the old-fashion variety if it's
legal to manufacture them these days.  My feeling is that since many other
car makers do not have this problem, that it's a poor design or engineering
problem on the part of Honda.  Three things to look out for on all Honda
products - clutch chatter, bad brake rotors, and rusty exhaust systems.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103526
From: stafford@lobby.ti.com (Ron Stafford)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr22.093956@is.morgan.com> sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff) writes:
>From: sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff)
>Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...
>Keywords: BRICK, TRUCK, DANGER
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 13:39:56 GMT
>In article <1993Apr20.223113.21666@voodoo.ca.boeing.com>, tomm@hank.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey) writes:
>|> In article <C5JoIt.E31@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> neil@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Neil Williams) writes:
>|> >a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old
>|> >that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do?
>|> 
>|> Execute the juvi on the grounds of the reformatory, required attendendence
>|> by the rest of the inmates, as soon as possible after the incident and a
>|> quick sure trial.  I am quite serious.  Cause and effect.  Nothing else
>|> will ever make a dent.
>
>This will not work. Hitler-youth, Newark teenager car stealing epidemics ,
>student riots and other similar cases show that death  is not a 
>behaviour-shaping or even intimidating factor for teenagers.  
>Teens defy death.

I is a strong deterent to the teens that are executed.  They won't do that
again!  This policy cuts way down on repeat offenders.

Please do not flame me - I don't agree with capital punishment for teen's.


>
>As far as rock throwing is concerned : well, it is very sad and tragic.
>Most of these incidents stem from the fact that these kids are DUMB,
>even smarter ones  completely lack deductive thinking and can't foresee 
>the consequences of their actions  beyond immediate ones.
>Unfortunately, dumbness and cars whizzing at 80 mph make an explosive
>mix.

They are also unsupervised.  With proper supervision, they would not be
throwing rocks.  If parents cannot provide the minimal supervision needed
to stop this activity, they should not be allowed to have children :-)

Notice the smiley ;-) 


>However, I hardly believe there was intent to kill in most of these cases,
>rather desire to see the shattering glass (I admit I was mercilessly 
>attacking Moscow busses with a slingshot in my tender years), akin to
>a child breaking toys. I witnessed several even more endeavouring
>projects : like stacking up bricks on a railroad track. Technical
>details of such a venture completely dominate the possibility of
>a human tradegy (heck, when you are 10, you have a vague concept of
>human tradegy) in a mind of a youngster. I'm quite sure that technical
>challenge of matching and predicting speed of a thrown stone so that it
>gets the car smack in the windshield completely  occupies the teen,
>not leaving much room for other considerations.
>
>
>Sergei
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------
Ron Stafford              TEXAS INSTRUMENTS INCORPORATED
(214) 917-2050            P.O.Box 655012, MS 3620
STAFFORD@LOBBY.TI.COM     Dallas, Texas 75265-3620

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103527
From: ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?s?


In a previous article, smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) says:

>In article <C5v6MD.Kyp@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:
>
>>>>V16 - must be one somewhere.
>
>>>Believe Bugatti's coming(has) out  one.  Something like 4 turbos
>>>and mucho macho HP.  One cool price too, as i heard.  At any rate,
>>>the point is, i'm pretty sure there is, indeed, one in production...
>>>tho rather limited..
>
>>This is _NO_ Bugatti.  It's labeled a Bugatti but has nothing to do with 
>>the Bugatti's of yore, from what I understand.  Just some ppl wanting to
>>build a silly supercar and use that name to sell it.
>
>Drew may be thinking of the Cizeta Morodor v16t, but that hasn't reached
>production, at least not yet.  As for the Bugatti, well, I have to agree
>with Matt, it ain't the top dog, it ain't sexy and svelt-looking, and it
>ain't a real Bugatti.  In fact, it looks like it's in tight competition
>with the Consulier for the most butt-ugly car of the decade award.

It isn't that bad.  At least the Bugatti EB110 has compound curves compared
to the slab sides on the Consulier.  And the Bugatti has a quad turbo V-12
(thing of it as 4 three cylinder turbo engines tied together).  Also Ettore
Bugatti's nephew is on the board of directors and had a hand in the
development.  So that's about as much Bugatti as you are likely to get in
today's world.  Much like Enzo Ferrari's illegitamate son being allowed to
take over part of Ferrari as well... 

>I don't know of any cars with v4, but there are a number of motorcycles
>with them - but I couldn't tell you which ones, all motorcycles look alike
>to me.   :D

That's funny.  I have motorcylclist friends who say the same about `cages'. 
:-)

Most GP 500cc motorcycles are V-4s, and the VF line of Hondas were all V-4s
(from the VF-400F through the VF-1000F, including the RC30 race bike and
the present VFR-750F).  It should be noted that Lancia built a V-4 in
recent history in the Fulvia HF, a very pretty Italian coupe. 

-- 
Al Bowers  DOD #900  Alfa  Ducati  Hobie  Kottke  'blad  Iaido  NASA
"Well goodness sakes...don't you know that girls can't play guitar?"
                                             -Mary Chapin-Carpenter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103528
From: ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi")
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?

nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  writes:
> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).
> 
> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
> something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
> diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
> install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
> of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
> different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
> gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...
> 

VW and Mercedes have tinkered with particulate traps.  Also, VW
uses a kind of turbocharger on their Jetta ECOdiesel that helps
reduce particulates as well, although I don't know the
mechanics of it.

Many diesel cars,busses, and trucks in Europe are now being
equipped with catalysts and traps in an effort to clean up
diesel emissions, already well below legal limits anyway.

It's a shame GM had to soil the diesel's reputation in
passenger cars and prevent further resource devotion to
research into making this outstandingly efficient engine even
further ahead of gas engines in emissions.

erik

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103529
From: born@scepter.ibm.com (Christopher J. Born)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

In <93115.132320ICJPS@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICJPS@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:

>My Nissan Quest has been doing 20mpg city, though its first few tanks
>were more like 17mpg.  The V6 and AT are remarkably smooth.
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Agreed!  I own a Mercury Villager and I'm very impressed with the V6 and
the AT.  In the past, I've been biased towards manual/standard transmissions(I owned
an Aerostar with a 5-speed, it was awesome!), but settled with the AT in the
Villager and have been pleasantly surprised with it's performance.
 
BTW, Consumers Report in their report on the Villager, alluded to some
funny noises from the AT, I've been listening for them but haven't noticed anything
unusual.
 
-Chris


Christopher J. Born

born@ralvms.vnet.ibm.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103530
From: ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers)
Subject: Re: Drag CoefficientsVx?s?


In a previous article, gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) says:

>Could someone explain how to make sense of drag coefficients (i.e Cd) mentioned in magazines.  I understand that lower numbers signify better aerodynamics but
>what does this mean in the real world.  Is there a way to calculate new top speeds(assuming the car is not rev limited at top speed) or mileage benefits if a identical car had the Cd reduced from .34 to .33.

It's pretty complex, and Cd isn't the whole story either.  Cd for cars is
usually calculated based on the frontal area of the car.  So a large car
with a good Cd could get the same drag force as a smaller car with a
poorer Cd. 

To calculate drag use this formula:

D = 1/2 * rho * v^2 * Cd * S

Where D is the drag force (lbs), rho is the local air density (slugs/ft^3),
V is the velocity (ft/s), and S is the frontal area (ft^2).  Note that the
pieces called 1/2 * rho * v^2 are sometimes called qbar or dynamic pressure
(a fancy aero term for air pressure or force). 

Note that power is:

P = F * v

Where P is power (lbf-ft/s), F is the force, drag in this case (lbf) and v
is velocity (ft/s). 

Note that if you put the whole equation into one (by substituting D for
force) you get a velocity _cubed_ term.  That's why huge increases in power
result in little increases in speed.  Ditto for decreases in Cd. 

So if you have a 100 mph car and reduce Cd from .34 to .33, your new top
speed is:  (sound of trumpet fanfare)

101 mph

Sorry to dissappoint.


-- 
Al Bowers  DOD #900  Alfa  Ducati  Hobie  Kottke  'blad  Iaido  NASA
"Well goodness sakes...don't you know that girls can't play guitar?"
                                             -Mary Chapin-Carpenter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103531
From: Tim Nagy <tn2c+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: REe; MGB questions

The whire wheels aren't chromed, they were to be painted silver/grey.

The accelerating from a stop shouldn't be "doggy" because of the light
weight of the car.

Don't pull the topto make it reach the snaps, I pulled a couple out of
the top doing that.  Replacing the spanps usually doesn't work.  Let it
sit in th e sun, open on the car for a couple hours, the try,  GENTLY!!!!

I continually blew up the #4 connecting rod bearing, be sure your not
buring too much oil.

Don't expect too much of a smooth ride.  The lever arm shocks hold the
road, and your bladder.  The are ultra-expensive.  Supposedly the can be
rebuilt.  J. C. Whitney sell a shock replacement kit the uses standard
shocks.

I had to rebuid boththe brake and clutch master cylinder, in addition to
the clutch slave.  This work made a world of changes.

Be sure the carb is the original type replacement.  My 1970 had dual
Stomberg oil dampenned side draft carbs.

Ask if the clutch has ever been replaced.  To replace the engine and
tranny have to be pulled as a unit.

If you need more, I had mine all through hiogh school.  Lots of
maintenance to use every day.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103532
From: hkon@mit.edu (Henry Kon)
Subject: sunroof leaks - I'm all wet

My sunroof leaks.  I've always thought those things were a royal pain.

Can anyone provide any insight ?

I know the seal isn't great.  Maybe I could weld the stupid thing shut.

hk


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103536
From: dchan@cisco.com (Derek Chan)
Subject: Re: service indicator of a BMW


In article <1993Apr22.130721.4420@westminster.ac.uk>, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
|> Derek....
|> 
|> There is a tool available to reset the service indicator on BMWs but the lights
|> will come back on after 2-3 weeks. The tool is in fact illegal (in Europe 
|> atleast). It is often the case that the unsuspecting punter trots off to buy a 
|> used BMW and a few weeks later, all the lights come on! Other than that, I know 
|> of no other tool.... anyone else? 
|> 
|> About changing oil every 15,000 miles.... thats ok.... on newer Audis, they 
|> only require it after every 12,000 miles (I am talking about an oil change)
|> Just a query: do you drive your car VERY VERY carefully? Like no sudden 
|> acceleration etc? If yeah, then the 15,000 M oil change seems quite reasonable.
|> But if you drive kinda fast... I'd get a bit up tight abot that 15,000 thingy
|> 
|> (a point to note: just because the first light came on at 3k, doesn't mean
|> all the others will come on every 3k too)
|> 
|> 							....Shaz....
Shaz,

Hmm.. but the service indicators that I have works this way:
  There are 5 green,1 yellow, 1 red indicators.
  initially all green indicators will be on for few minutes when you start
  your car. The computer will actually "sense" how you drive your car and
  as time goes by the green indicators will start to go off one by one and
  then the yellow indicator will turn on and then the red indicator will go
  on. And you should get service when by the time green indicators are off.
  
  After service the mechanic(or you) will reset the service indicators and the
  computer starts counting again.

So I expect to have a tool(or a procedure) to reset it so the green lights will 
come on and the yellow and red lights will go off.

I wonder how people can do oil change themself without knowing how to reset the
indicator.

It's the first european car I have and changing oil at 15,000 miles is a 
surprise to me. and it's a big plus :-). But I wonder how that could happen
since the oil lose its lubrication ability over time, I thought it's the oil and
not the vehicle that determines how often we should change oil.

Any BMW owner on the net? Response welcomed.

PS.  my initial question is "how do you seset the service indicator of a BMW"

Derek 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103647
From: herling@crchh111.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brent Herling)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions



>In article <1993Apr21.160341.24707@westminster.ac.uk>, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
>|> I just wanted to know:
>|> 
>|> To wheelspin in an auto, you keep the gear in N - gas it - then stick the 
>|> gear in D... I've never tried this but am sure it works - but does this screw 
>|> up the autobox? We're having a bit of a debate about it here...
>
>
>Ah yes,  the neutral slam.
>
>I know that GM tested the old th400's and th350's by shifting from reverse to
>forward gears repeatedly while holding the engine at high rpms.  the units hold
>up incredibly well.  This is also the recommended technique to "rock" a stuck
>vehicle out of the mud.  I think the hydraulics are up to the task, but the
>mechanicals of the driveline may object by breaking something.
>
>$0.02
>
>Ericy 
I agree about the durability of the old TH400 trannies from GM.  While I 
never intentionally slamed my '68 Firebird 400 ci Conv. into gear, I would leave 
the trannie in Low (read 1st), grab hold, hit the pedal, and once the tires 
grabbed, take off.  When I reached about 57-60mph the turbo 400 Auto would 
shift to S (read 'super' or 2nd) and leave about 10 to 15 foot of double 
stripped rubber on the ground.  Most everyone I knew at the time was quite 
impressed with 'peeling' out at 60 MPH.  The trannie held up just fine.
Motor mounts would last about a year until I tied the motor down with large
chains.  Oh yea,FYI:    Pontiac 400 ci bored 0.04 over   
                        Large Valve heads
                        Holley 650 Spread bore
                        Crain 'BLAZER' cam (don't remember the specs)
                        PosiTrac, Hooker headers, Dual exhaust
                        Get this (Conv., leather seats, power windows
                                  power top, AC, Cruise etc.) 

  Oh yea, I also pulled the 'Cocktail shakers' (weights) from the front
  and removed the lead pellet from the accelerator pedal. (Damn US regulations)   
 OH, HOW I MISS THAT CAR!!! 
  -- 0-60 under 6.7 sec  and about 6 to 14 mpg (well I don't miss the mpg)
  -- front wheels 4" off the ground with three quick jabs at the pedal.
  -- bent pushrods, stripped rocker studs,  every 6-12 months 
     ( I really wonder what kind of rev's I was turning - no tach)
Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions
  Anyone seen one of these lately?  I'd buy it back in a sec!!!

OPEN TOP Brent

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103650
From: woobin@dance.ee.washington.edu (Woobin Lee)
Subject: Re: .Extensions

In article <1993Apr22.114401.7152@ericsson.se> etxmst@sta.ericsson.se writes:
>I was wondering what the country extension are.
>Sometimes I just don't have a clue from where
>some people are writing.
>
>These are the extensions I know of
>
>ch   Switzerland
>se   Sweden
>fi   Finland
>uk   UK
>Com  US?
>Edu  US?     (are both com and edu US?) 
>fr   France
>
>Please feel free to add to this list.
>
>/ Markus

nz	New Zealand
au	Australia
jp	Japan
kr	Korea
-- 

Woobin Lee -----------------------------------------------------------------
				||
Image Computing System Lab	||	woobin@u.washington.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103653
From: kensib@cary112.its.rpi.edu (Brian C. Kensing)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

I prefer a manual to an automatic as it should be.  I believe that automatics
should only be manufactured for people with physical disabilities who otherwise
would not be able to drive.  Automatic transmissions allow drivers to be lazy.
More time is available to fiddle with the radio or to look at the scenery
instead of concentrating on the road.  The manual transmission keeps the drive
always doing something, granted it isn't a large movement.  Plus, driving should
be FUN!  Driving a manual is fun, driving an automatic is a chore.
	In the case of shift speed, automatics can be made to shift far faster
that any human could move a stick.  If I was racing, I'd want and automatic.  For
normal driving go with the manual.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103656
From: bobc@pyramid.unr.edu (Bob Conrad)
Subject: Re: New Anti-Carjacking Campaign

In article <1993Apr23.013802.4157@freenet.carleton.ca> ae446@Freenet.carleton.ca (Nigel Allen) writes:
>
>Here is a press release from the National Crime Prevention Council
>   The campaign urges drivers to remember to "lock up, roll up, and
>look around":
>   * lock car doors immediately after entering or leaving the car;
>   * roll up windows as far as possible; and
>   * look around and be alert to avoid situations that are
>       suspicious.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

that reminds me of a blurb in the police blotter in my school paper along
the lines of, "...Police were called because [so and so] reported there
were suspicious people hangning around the Business Building."  turns
out it was two black men leaving the building after doing homework late
one night.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103657
From: raman@translab.its.uci.edu (Balaji V. Ramanathan)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

In article <1qofeaINNn7h@shelley.u.washington.edu> gaia@carson.u.washington.edu (I/We are Gaia) writes:
>just stopped putting money into it.  I must have put at least $5000-$7000
>worth of repairs over it's lifetime.  I am sorry but Lee Iacocca can bite
>me.  Bullshit, whoever backs em best, is just afraid the stupid things area
	The part about spending $5000-7000 on repairs reminds me
of an article I read in a magazine comparing the 5 year ownership costs
of a Toyota Camry and a Ford Taurus or something like that.  The result,
which they announced with great flourish was that it cost the same at the
end of the period.  That was their argument to prove that you don't go
wrong buying the Ford Taurus over the Camry.

	Now, if I remember correctly, the Camry costs about $4000 or so more
in initial costs.  Essentially, it means that you spend about $4000 extra
on repairs on the Taurus.  That is ridiculous.  Every time your car
needs repairs, it is extra hassles, loss of time and a dozen other things.
I would much rather spend $5000 more in initial costs than spend $4000 more
in repair costs.

--
----------------->8      Cut here for Signature!       8<---------------------
Balaji Ramanathan,                   | 
Institute of Transportation Studies, |         I don't believe in luck!
University of California, Irvine.    |              I RELY on it!!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103658
From: dougs@Ingres.COM (DOUG SCHNEYMAN)
Subject: My two cars - Chevy Nova CL ('87) and Dodge 600 SE ('87)

As you can see, I have two 1987 cars, both worth about $3000 each.
The problem is that maintenance costs on these two cars is
running about $4000 per year and insurance $3000 per year.

What am I doing wrong?

Within the last two months, the follows costs have occured:

Dodge 600 SE (Dodge's attempt at the American German car!)

$1,000 - replace head gasket
$300   - new radiator

Chevy Nova CL (Chevy's attempt at a Japan import!)

$500 - tune-up,oil change,valve gasket,middle exhaust pipe, misc.

Note also that the Chevy Nova CL (1987) has only 70 horsepwer!
Does anyone out there have a Chevy Nova with enough power
to get up even a small hill without knocking? Is there
something wrong with my car, I even use 93 octane gas!
(I have consider going to 110 octane if I can find it!)

Anyway, what are the best maintenance items to do-it-yourself,
and what equipment is needed? 

            Thanks,
            -Doug (2 car Doug from Wayne,NJ)


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103659
From: arneh@edb.tih.no (Arne Henriksen)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

The Devil Reincarnate (ssave@ole.cdac.com) wrote:

:   I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
: have v engines.

: V4 - I don't know of any.
: V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
: V8 - Don't know of any.
: V12 - Jaguar XJS


:  Please add to the list.


:  Thanks,
:  -S
:  ssave@ole.cdac.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103660
From: Tom Wetzel <twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Replacement/Custom Seats, Where to get?

In article <1993Apr26.154428.17764@colorado.edu> Jerry Bowman, bowmanj@csn.org
writes:
>          What car are we talking about? If its Camaro, Chevelle,GTO,
>    Nova, Etc. there are a bunch of places to get them.

 A 68 Corvette but, I don't want to put Corvette seats in it.  The original
 seats are in exc. shape but they are uncomfortable as hell.  I'm going to
 store those and find a set to drive in.  I have all the Vette catalogs but
 I'm looking for a more generic type seat.  I can modify the brackets but 
 cushion height and overall width are a concern.  I've looked through some
 local boneyards without success.  I would just like to find a pair of 
 cheapo's to use this summer.  
 
 Tom

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103661
From: vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

> >You know, I'm a Ford fan, I must say, so I'm looking forward to the next
> >Mustang.  I have faith that it will be a fine product, more desireable
> >than the Camaro is now.  You know, that's MHO.  
> 
> True...thats your opinion.
> 
> >They beat Ford to the market with the Camaro/Firebird, but really only
> >in words.  Production of these vehicles will be limited until the
> >end of the year, keeping selling prices above MSRP for the most part
> >since there are so many twitching Camaro fans out there.  I wouldn't
> >press Ford to hurry the Mustang since the final wait could be worth it.
> >Besides, no bow-tie fanatic is gonna buy the Mustang anyway.
> 
> True again.. I wouldn't take a free Mustang...honest.
> 
> >The next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car.  It attracts
> >way more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage
> >is more embedded in the general public.  Don't lie to yourself and
> >believe Ford will forfeit that.
> 
> FYI: they already did.
> Too bad that the current Mustang can't even compete with the new
> Camaro without using an active imagination.
> Right now few cars can compare with the '93 Camaro, Think about it..
> 20,000 for a car that will out perform all but a few exotics.
> If you are now swearing at me look at the stats...they don't lie.
>  There are NO comparable cars in it's class, certinaly not for its price.
> 
> >  You know,intelligent, critical spews like, "The Mustang bites, man!"  
> Some of you are already beginning.  I predict that the Mustang and Camaro
> >will be comparable performers, as usual.
> >
> I also agree, This subject is one that will never be setteled....
> Except maybe at the  track :-)
> 
> >Unless the Ford gets the 32v, 300hp Romeo.  You don't seriously believe
> >that it was designed for the Mark VIII only, do you?
> >
> Hey, can you imagine the potential of a MODIFIED LT-1!!!!!!!
> Folks in a few years we will surpass the levels of performance 
> achieved in the late '60's, thats scary.

You Ford vs Chevy people must live in the planet of Detroit or Droid.

Like they say in the airforce, with enough horsepower anything will fly.

I can put a 32valve V-8 with twin Garret-4s on Yugo and get 7.7sec QM.
Thats useless ... Its still a Yugo that will loose any race on a track,
or on the street.

Have you Detroit beings compared the ultra-long-throw stick shifts of
the 5.0 with the 93 MR2 turbo or 93 RX7 (I ll buy it in 6 mos) ?

Or the Torsen differential of the RX7 compared to the Differential of 
the 5.0 that sounds in every hairpin turn ?

And bythe way 5.0 and Camaro both have drums on the rear breaks ...
Hello , this is the 90 's ?

Vlasis Theodore
Software Engineer

-Just say no to signatures-

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103662
From: reilly@admail.fnal.gov (Rob Reilly)
Subject: Re: Changing brake fluid..is it necessary..

In article <1993Apr23.163129.53125@gmuvax.gmu.edu>, lcarr@gmuvax.gmu.edu
wrote:
> 
> Hi.
>  I've been seeing all these articles about changing
> brake fluid and I am wondering if this is really necessary.
> I have an 86 Toyota Corolla SR5, with 94000 and I am in the
> process of doing preventative maintenance and I was
> wondering if this was something that I should add to
> my list of things to do.
> Any information would be greatly appreciated. I really
> love this car and would like to keep it for as long as 
> possible.
> 
> Thanx...
> 
> -lisa
> 
> sign me... only a manual will do..

Amplifying on Jeff Goss's answer, the absorbed water will rust your
brakelines and master cylinder and calipers and you could suddenly lose all
your brake fluid.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103663
From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?

In article <1993Apr22.173402.665@Virginia.EDU>, ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes...
#nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  writes:
#> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
#> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
#> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).
#> 
#> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
#> something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
#> diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
#> install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
#> of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
#> different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
#> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
#> gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...
#> 
# 
#VW and Mercedes have tinkered with particulate traps.  Also, VW
#uses a kind of turbocharger on their Jetta ECOdiesel that helps
#reduce particulates as well, although I don't know the
#mechanics of it.
# 
#Many diesel cars,busses, and trucks in Europe are now being
#equipped with catalysts and traps in an effort to clean up
#diesel emissions, already well below legal limits anyway.
# 
#It's a shame GM had to soil the diesel's reputation in
#passenger cars and prevent further resource devotion to
#research into making this outstandingly efficient engine even
#further ahead of gas engines in emissions.
# 
#erik

   I sure don't know what and how they measure in regards to diesel 
 motors in cars, trucks, and busses, but I think they are probably
 measuring the wrong pollutants, or at the wrong time, or both.

   I certainly find it offensive to drive behind a diesel bus or
 diesel truck and some diesel cars.  They stink!  And it's always
 roll-up-the-windows panic time when one comes by or ducks in front
 of me when I am driving with my family.

   I don't think the combustion mixture is kept under very good
 control in diesel engines, and that's why they stink.  So the 
 invisible, unsmellable pollutants are reduced in diesels.  Yeah,
 well so what!?  Someone forgot about the visible, stinky kind, and,
 as far as I am concerned, those kind are just as bad.

    I am all for de-stinking the diesel vehicles.  It'll keep the
 traffic signs cleaner, too.

 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103664
From: hhd0@harvey.gte.com (Horace Dediu)
Subject: Re: MBenz 300 series, VW Passat

Go with the Mercedes, if you can afford it.  I think the 300 wagon starts around
50k, although it could be 60k.

There is no comparison with any of the other cars listed.

-- 
Horace Dediu                                                  GTE Laboratories
(617) 466-4111                                                40 Sylvan Road
Internet: hdediu@gte.com                                      Waltham, MA 02254

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103665
From: mcrosbie@batman.bmd.trw.com
Subject: Re: Viper Car Alarms

In article <C605Fr.CDo@cs.uiuc.edu>, u1815@cs.uiuc.edu (Ronald E Garnett) writes:
> Hello auto enthusiasts!
> 
> I recently had more car mangled (broken into) and decided to
> get an alarm installed.  It's a Viper 400 and has a shock
> sensor, sensors for each door, ignition cutoff, and automatic
> door locks.

I have this same alarm installed in my Syclone.  It works great.  The shock
sensor is very sensitive, but much more practical than the motion sensor I have
on my other car.  It doesn't trigger if the car is rocked gently by the wind,
but any kind of shock sets it off.  Even kicking the tire sets it off.  It
works great.

> 
> What worries me is the hood and hatch.  If someone could pry 
> them up gently enough, then they could bypass the alarm.

The shock sensor is adjustable and there are two cycles on it.  You can adjust
it to be sensitive enough that there is no way you could open the hood without
setting off the alarm.  Although, I know that you cannot pop the hood on the
Syclone without setting off my alarm now, and yet I have had zero (none!) false
alarms with this system.  The alarm tells you when you disarm it whether it has
been activated in your absence.  I have been able to trace every alarm to it's
cause and it was not a false alarm.
> 
> I'm also wondering how easy it would be for a thief to crawl
> underneath the car and cut the battery cable to disable the alarm.
> 
I guess it would be possible depending on the vehicle.  My Syclone is so tight
in the engine compartment that it would be tough to do this.  There are
supplemental power supplies you can put on with this Viper alarm, but I don't
have one.  I really think that if someone wants my car that bad, the alarm
won't keep them from it, even with a supplemental power supply.

> Viper also sells some fancy field disturbance sensor that
> supposedly detects people approcahing the car....
> 
This is primarily for convertibles.  I have a convertible and have looked at
this feature in detail.  Alpine actually makes a better radar unit if you want
to get one of these.  It has zones in it that can be shut down independently so
that if one side of your car has pedestrian traffic or something else that
would trigger an alarm, it shuts down the zone, or rather, pulls it in tighter.
I don't see the real benefit to these unless you have a convertible that you
leave the top down on.

Avoid the voice alarm that can be added to the radar package.  It talks to
people as they walk by.  I saw one installed on a Lotus Esprit.  The kids would
taunt it seeing how close they could get before it 'warned' them to get back. 
The owner finally disabled it, which defeats the purpose in my mind.
> 
> I'm interested in the opinions of you netters about these problems
> and about the viper in general.
> 
I am real happy with my Viper.  One other feature I really like is you can tune
it to your preferences.  You can have it arm passively or not.  You can disable
the chirp for arming/disarming.  You can have it lock/unlock the doors when the
alarm is armed/disarmed.  

I like these features.  I hate the chirp when the alarm arms/disarms, so mine
flashes the lights only.  I like the door lock feature, although I have to be
careful to take my keys with me because it doesn't know if you have left your
keys in the car when it passively arms and locks the doors.  But, if you are
meticulous about taking your keys with you, it takes care of the rest.
> The car is an 89 Ford Probe GT that used to be in great shape!
> 
> 
> Ron Garnett
> 

I looked seriously at the Alpine system too.  It is a real nice system, but
more money and it has a motion sensor standard instead of the shock sensor. 
The shock sensor is better....and the Viper shock sensor is better (2 cycle)
than the optional Alpine one, IMHO.  I think the Viper gives you a lot of good
value for the money.  But it isn't absolutely tamperproof.  No system is. 
Except maybe the one that James Bond had on his Lotus in For Your Eyes Only. 
Anyone know where we can get one of those installed?  Maybe that was what they
had in the van in the World Trade Center, huh?>


Merrill


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103666
From: leapman@austin.ibm.com (Scott Leapman)
Subject: Re: AUTOFOM/FOMBLIN A ????


I tried the AutoFom stuff on my 1991 Saturn SC, and was so disappointed with it
that I returned it for a refund.  I polished the car for 2 hours and couldn't
remove the swirl marks/thin film that was all over the finish.  It also
attracted more dirt than without the stuff.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103667
From: leapman@austin.ibm.com (Scott Leapman)
Subject: Car Alarms- Which One?


Before we get into another discussion on the relative merits of a car alarm,
let's go on the assumption that one is desired.  The question then remains,
which one?  I've owned a Hornet, and was satisfied, but not enough to get
another for my new car.  The Alpine has been highly recommended, but what about
Clifford and VSE's Derringer 2?  Any others?  I want all of the standard stuff;
door lock interface, starter kill, light flash, LED, valet mode, passive/active,
shock/motion sensor, etc...  Thanks for the advice!


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103668
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: funny car taxes (was Re: Market Access)

In article <1r5acf$nh1@agate.berkeley.edu> robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson) writes:
>Keep in mind that owning any car in Korea is a luxury that only the ruling
>class can afford.  Every government agency worth its salt finds some reason
>to levy a tax on car ownership; last I heard, there were seven different
>fees to pay to own a car.  

We used to have a tax in Greece named after the Queen's Mother. The Queen
left (Monarchy was abolished) but the tax stuck...

Similar single purpose taxes have stuck (i.e. to help the victims of 
the earthquake of 19XX, build the Metro)

ObMoralConclusion: next time someone proposes a car tax or gasoline tax
promising it's temporary, it AIN'T. 

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103669
From: homi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Sammy)
Subject: Changing M/T oil on M89 Maxima?

Hello again, another question.  :)

I just got my hands on 2 quarts of ReadLine Gear Oil (at $7 a quart)
now I need to know how to throw it into my car.

I own an 89 NIssan Maxima Se, any Ideas?
Can I mix the Oil in there with this stuff, or should I drain first, then
	only use this stuff.
If you know where (if there is one) the drain plug on the manual transmission
	on the Maxima is, I would really appreciate any comments.
Also have any of you Maxima owners, thied this stuff in your cars?

Thanks in ADV.
Sammy


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103670
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>
>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>have v engines.
>
>V4 - I don't know of any.

V4s? I don't know of any. I4s and flat4s are abundant.

>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?

A whole $h!tload. Minivans, pickups, just about any car above the
subcompact/compact range and below the full-size range (with a few
exceptions).

I6s are much more rare now; the only one I personally know of that's
still in production is the venerable Ford 300CID in the F-series pickups.
I think that Jeep's big 6's are also straight sixes, but I'm not a
big Jeep person.

>V8 - Don't know of any.

Where are you to not know of V8s? There are Mustangs, Cadillacs,
Lincolns, Camaros, Corvettes, Thunderbirds, all real full-size
pickups, Crown Vics, Chevy Moby^H^H^H^HCaprice ;-), and even a few
Japanese and European vee-hickles with V8s.

V10 - Dodge Viper; Dodge promises a truck with a V10.

>V12 - Jaguar XJS

Don't Ferarri and Lamborghini both use V-12s extensively?

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103671
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr22.180150.12377@telxon.mis.telxon.com> joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>>
>>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>>have v engines.
>>
>>V4 - I don't know of any.
>Because there is no such thing.

A friend had a Ford Taunus (era early 60's) that *did* have a V4 in it.

I lost a bet on it. I find it hard to believe there are no *recent* cars
with a V4 in them. Any *recent* ones?

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103672
From: daveb@Ingres.COM (Dave Brower, DBMS hack, [510] 748-3418)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <1993Apr21.100149.1501@rtsg.mot.com>, kissane@black (John G. Kissane) writes:
>As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
>here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....

Primarily milage.  Gas is much more expensive, so people are very
concerned about it taking a few more liters per kilometer.  This,
along with narrow old cities, also results in smaller cars with
smaller engines.  These engines usually don't have the torque to mesh
well with an automatic.  So, having engines that don't work well with
autos, and a great concern for milage, the usual Euro-car has a
manual.

(Note that not many big Benzes come with manuals.  If you've got the
money for the car, you've got the money for the gas, and the engine to
drive through the slushbox.)

As automatics become more efficient, the "bigotry" is probably
reduced.  Still, everyone knows how to drive a manual, and cars are
cheaper with one, and it saves a little expensive fuel.  So there
aren't compelling reasons to go automatic.

-dB

-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103673
From: jafo@miranda.accum.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Subject: Re: Too fast

This whole discussion is just a religous war.  I'd rather have a '93 RX-7
than the Mustang 5.0L for 3 times the price.  That's how you explain
Porsches selling.  Some folks would rather have the Stang...

<shrug>

Sean
-- 
Test signature

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103674
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?


V16 anyone? Anyone heard of a Cizata V16T ??? Its mainly sold in the middle 
east where they dont have as strict a legislation as in the USA and EC....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103675
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Nissan Nomenclature (was Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted)

Thanx Craig.... in addition to Craigs coments - and to clear up any 
further confusion.... the 200SX (of USA) was reffered to as a Silvia Turbo
in the UK.... performance figures of UK 200SX are:

			0-60: 6.4s
			Vmax: 142mph
						...Shaz.. 
Oh one more Q: you know that new Prelude VTEC? Well is there an auto version
in the USA? I've heard of them in Japan but not UK. Also, do you guys get 
auto Miatas?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103676
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Emergency Brake on Opel  (was: '86 Nissan Maxima)

Since we're on the subject of brakes.... does anyone know why a 4WD Vauxhall/
Opel disengages drive to the rear wheels when the brakes are applied? Vauxhall
boast about how the car is more stable in fwd mode during braking than in 4wd
mode.... how is this so? 
						...Shaz...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103677
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?


Yeah, diesels are cleaner than petrol powered cars. They even have catalysts 
fitted to disels now! Oh and Citroen have even launched the 'First sports 
diesel car in the world'. Which is probably true if you assume if its for 
production purposes (Merc-Benz had a prototype which runs on diesel back in 
around 1968..... it did - and read this! - 200 MPH!!!)
							....Shaz....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103678
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the VW Corrado VR6

In the EC, the Corrado VR6 is rated as 'best handling car this side of a 
968'. As it goes, I just read an article in 'Autocar & Motor' comparing the 
VR6 to a Ford Probe (later to be launched in the UK).... The VR6 is more powerful (even more so coz its 2.9 instead of 2.8 in the EC) and more fun to drive
etc etc... but the Probe has a slightly smoother engine (thanx Mazda MX6!)...

They sum it up as 'both cars are fast - the VR6 is a bit more exhilirating to 
drive but only if you're prepared to work harder'
 							....Shaz....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103679
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: .Extensions

In article <1r6omsINNnbk@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>In article <gfpftjW00iV3Q3vWYv@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Daniel U. Holbrook" <dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>These are the extensions I know of
>>>ch   Switzerland
>>>se   Sweden
>>>fi   Finland
>>>uk   UK
>>>Com  US?
>>>Edu  US?     (are both com and edu US?) 
>>>fr   France
>>dk    denmark
>>no    Norway
>
>.com and .edu are both United States, one refers to commercial institutions,
>the other to mental - I mean, "educational" - institutions.  .gov is also
>pretty much US, it refers to government institutions.  Internet was built on
>the AARP backbone, a US Defense contractor network that used the extension

I think you mean ARPA; AARP is the American Association of Retired Persons,
and I seriously doubt that they'd want young whippersnappers building
anything on their backbones, what with de-calcification and all :-)

>to identify the type of organisation.  Internet extended the convention for
>other countries, but the US retained the old conventions.

The general convention is that if it doesn't have a country tag on it, it's
a US site. That includes:
	.com	commercial 
	.edu	educational 
	.mil	US Military sites 
	.gov	US Gov't non-military sites (eg NASA sites)
	.org	anyone who is "none of the above"
There are sites with such tags that are non-US sites, but they will have
the country extension (eg xxxx.edu.au is an extension I saw today).
US sites can also use the .us extension, but, as Mr. Smith pointed 
out, the Internet was built on the ARPANet backbone, and they default
to US sites if there's no country code.

I would suggest that anyone who didn't know this (or wants to know
more about it on a non-system-administrative level) check out
the book _The_Whole_Internet_User's_Guide_and_Catalog_ by Ed Krol.
(or is it Catalog and User's Guide? I can never remember, and my copy
is my desk at home...). It's a very good not-necessarily-technical
guide to the Internet and the various utilities that lurk on it (including
USENET). I don't think it's part of the Nutshell series, but it is
published by O'Reilly and Associates.

This should go to one of the news.* newsgroups, but damned if I
can figure out which one.... :-)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103680
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Radar detectors in the UK

Did youy guys know that it is LEGAL to own a radar detector but is ILLEGAL
to use it! Isn't that a bit like owning a gun but not being allowed to use it?
My mate just switches his off whenever the cops are around.  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103681
From: edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards)
Subject: Re: comparing saabs & bmw's

In article <1r7js5$k50@biz.ecs.umass.edu> suri@ganzer.ecs.umass.edu () writes:
>hi,
>would someone like to post a comparative analysis (quantitative
>measures -hp etc and more so the qualitative feel of how they compare
>for the driving feel, handling, noise, responsiveness etc) for the
>saab 900/9000's and the bmw 3/5 series.
>any comments on just comparing the 900 with the 9000 re: handling. 
>i take it that the saabs and bmw's are comparable for reliability and
>all that....would be nice if flaming wars could be avoided and
>folks just post their experiences ..

I had a '82 Saab 900 Turbo, and now have a '87 BMW 325is

There is no comparison for handling, reliability, or overall quality of
engineering. The BMW wins hands down. After 5 years I was sick and tired
of the all the little problems and entropic decay of the SAAB. The 6-year
old BMW is still as sweet as it was new.

But I see you are posting from western MA. BMW's **SUCK** in the snow.
I have aggressive snows, plus a hundred pounds of sand in the back, and I
still try to avoid driving in the snow. I happily took the SAAB through
blizzard conditions without a worry. I would say this is the single design
flaw in the BMW.
 
-- 
Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103682
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <1993Apr24.003549.126206@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL) writes:

>In article <1993Apr15.155325.6329@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, nancy@hayduke (Nancy
> Feagans) writes:
>>Ashtrays and cigarette lighters.  These should be an *option*.

>You forget that the cigarette lighter plug is essential for plugging in radar
>detectors and lights. The ashtrays are also essential because they are great
>places to keep change and tokens.

Wouldn't you rather have some type of standard "electrical" plug instead of 
that "fire hazard waiting to happen" adaptor? I know I would, and I would 
also prefer to have sensibly placed cup holders instead of an ashtray. (my 
car came with coin holders already built in)

Ron

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103683
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: BMW 528i

In article <1993Apr26.160911.28922@westminster.ac.uk>, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
>In article <1993Apr25.180954.20425@ultb.isc.rit.edu> adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>>The radio does not work untill the car warms up and you honk the horn (!)
>
>Hahaa!!!!!! hahahah!! hahahahahahaaaaa! I cant stop - its killing me!! 
>hahah!!! 
>

I was dead serious when I posted it. I actually have an attempt of explanation
to this phenomenon, but I'll keep you guessing. I still want responces, 
of which I got exactly 0.
Mike.S

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103684
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu (Cris Hannu) writes:

>In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com>, ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>> 
>>   I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>> have v engines.
>> 
>> V4 - I don't know of any.
>> V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>> V8 - Don't know of any.

>       Yeah, right....

>The BMW 8xx are V10's or V12's, can't remember which... the auto show was
>a while ago.

	The 850 is a V12 (5L, from the 750iL)  Is there a 835? or 840?

>> V12 - Jaguar XJS
>> 
>> 
>>  Please add to the list.
>>  Thanks,
>>  -S
>>  ssave@ole.cdac.com
>-- 
>Cris Hannu                       |  Windsurfing the high country.
>Cray Research, Inc.              |
>@NCAR - Boulder, CO              |         ^           ^
>cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu        |        / \ ___)___ / \ 


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103685
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article <21APR199314371355@stdvax> oaddab@stdvax (DIRK BROER) writes:

>Still its amazing in Germany you can have cars traveling 155 mph and 65 mph 
>on the same 3 to 4 lane road.  Around Washington DC they can't keep traffic 
>flowing at 55.

Actually, that'd be 155 mph and 60 mph (the legal speed limit for trucks) 
in *two* lanes, each direction. It's a hell of a rush when those trucks fly 
by. (or was that me flying by them? Who cares, the rush is really something 
else, and so is the draft)

Ron

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103686
From: damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore) writes:

>Have you Detroit beings compared the ultra-long-throw stick shifts of
>the 5.0 with the 93 MR2 turbo or 93 RX7 (I ll buy it in 6 mos) ?

>Or the Torsen differential of the RX7 compared to the Differential of 
>the 5.0 that sounds in every hairpin turn ?

Or the price tag of the RX7 vs. a Mustang? Part of the definition of
a Mustang is that it should be affordable by the masses. Of course
Ford knows youre argument, THEY OWN A BIG PIECE OF MAZDA! Take a good
look at a Mach III, now an RX7, hhhmmmmm...

>And bythe way 5.0 and Camaro both have drums on the rear breaks ...
>Hello , this is the 90 's ?

That is a tragedy, but I don't think new Camaros or the new Mustangs will.

-Steve

7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7
               Alan Kulwicki    1992 Winston Cup Champion
                              1954 - 1993
7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103687
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: MR2 seats for sale

In article <1993Apr26.155800.29900@noao.edu>, groves@noao.edu (Lee Groves) writes:
>From article <1993Apr26.025509.27126@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, by adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu:
>> I have a pair of sport seats from '85 MR2 for sale, blue/black.
>
>As the owner of an MR2, and having several friends who own them,
>I am very uncomfortable when I see an ad like this.  I have known
>several people who have lost the seats from their MR2 in the middle
>of the night to support the Celica retro-fit trade.  --and the 
>insurance companies have been very miserable to deal with
>in all cases.  
>
>When these seats are seen for sale, they are *most often* stolen.
>So it would be nice to see a statement saying where they came from.
>That would at least help to soothe the reflexive fear that someone
>is making a buck at someone elses expense.
>
>I'll give this seller the benefit of the doubt, but people should be
>aware the the vast majority of MR2 seats on the market--especially
>those that are in Celicas--are stolen.
>
>
>Lee
>
>( BTW:  They *are* incredible seats...  So if it's legit, go for it! )
>
>

I am the original owner of the seats and the original poster. 
I take VERY serious offence in your statement. 
I see a lot of computers advertized on the net, and my friend just had been
releived of his machine = all the net-computer ads are for stolen computers?
Where did you learn logic?

As for the seats, they were replaced by a much harder (literally) Celica GTS
seats due to my back problem. That is why I had to reuse the MR2 brackets
and that's why the MR2 seats I sell are attached to Celica brackets.

Please in the future think before you make allegations like the above.
It hurts.
Mike.S

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103688
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together!

In article <1r7f9qINNk24@phantom.gatech.edu> grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas) writes:
>jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blade Runner") writes:
>
>>A GT-40?!  Gotta be in my top 5 favorite-cars-of-all-time
>>list.  Where is this place?  Was the car for sale?  COME ON, I
>>need details...or not.  Anyways, I just had to say WOW at the
>>sighting of such a fine beast.  But remember, the Mustang will
>>forever be the true King of the Road.  
>
>The place was in what used to be a small town (now a suburb) north of 
>Atlanta. I don't know if the car was for sale or not, you wouldn't put
>a price on the window on this type of car anyway. 

Damn straight! As far as I've heard, unless the owner is _very_
hard up, the GT-40s are not for sale at any price that mere
mortals could afford.

>And maybe the Mustang
>will be forever King of the Road, the GT-40 isn't road legal.

I think the GT-40 actually _is_ street legal, although that particular
question is moot (see the price figures below).

>This car was right hand drive (weren't they all like that?). How much does
>a GT-40 go for? How many were made?

I wish I could find my Shelby-American guide; it included the GT-40
registry (as of '88 or so). There were precious few of them made 
(fifty is the number that springs to mind; they made just enough
to qualify for the Manufacturer's Cup, or whichever series it
was that Shelby broke Ferarri's 13-year winning streak in in '65),
and they are all accounted for. The last price I saw estimated on a
GT-40 was a little bit over $1,000,000 (yes, that's right, ONE MILLION
US DOLLARS; it was second only to some worthless piece of Ferrari
that it would blow the doors off of ;-).

I don't recall off-hand what the drive configuration was, although
I'm certain some must have been LHD, as they had to be sold to qualify
for racing. The drivertrain was the Ford 427 (hi-riser, I think, 
and/or side-oiler) coupled to various 4-speed transmissions. They
also used 3-speed manuals; they had lots of problems with the
original trannys breaking under the load of the 427. Layout was
rear-engine, rear-drive, with the "bundle of snakes" exhaust
headers...I can remeber other bits and pieces of info, but I
can't remember whether they applied to the GT-40 or the Shelby
Cobra Daytona Coupe...I'll try and find that reference.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103689
From: matthews@oswego.Oswego.edu
Subject: MG T-series FOR SALE


1954 MG-TF with frame-up restoration in early '70's - a local show winner!
Driven very little and stored inside since then - mostly collected dirt &
dust.  Needs attention to brake cylinders (like all MG-T's) but otherwise
ready to run.  Chrome & paint not fancy but it is mechanically excellent.
The engine, a 1250cc, was completely overhauled by a machine shop.  It is
priced at $12,000.

1953 MG-TD Good shape but hasn't been run since '70's.  Needs engine work,
but no rust and everything is with it including a top, side curtains and
carpet that were new and haven't seen the outdoors since the '70's. $9,500.

1952 MG-TD Basket Case.  I'd call it a parts car, but it's too good
for that.  Everything seems to be there except the tach.  Would make
a good project car or parts car if you insist.  No apparent rust but the
upholstery is a disaster.  Stored inside since the '70's.  The top was
new but now soso.  This one has wire wheels!  Looking for $4,500.

All three cars will be sold "as they stand" with no hassles or haggles.
Time has passed by and it is time to part company.  Prices are negotiable.

Reply via matthews@Oswego.oswego.edu or   U.S. mail to: P. O. Box 1015
                                       315-341-3501   Oswego, NY 13126


-- 

Harry Matthews K2AOU    WRVO/WRVN/WRVJ     Internet: matthews@oswego.oswego.edu
Learning Resources      Satellite TV         Bitnet: matthews@snyoswva
S.U.N.Y. College        Cable TV         Voice Mail: 315-341-3501
Oswego, NY 13126        ALLOY NTNX-PC    MHO's are mine, not S.U.N.Y. Oswego's.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103690
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: horizontally opposed/boxer engines (was: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr26.174602.28054@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
>None of the configurations are perfectly inherently balanced, which
>is what I was talking about.  Balance shafts and mass on either
>ends of the cranks can eliminate these forces/moments, which is
>something I also pointed out.

and didn't you also say that it was easier to add masses than to
add balance shafts?  the sad truth is that some makers don't
bother to put balance shafts on their big shaky 4's..

>The three cranks I refer to:            i^
>                                         |
>        ___     i^      ___             1 4      I4:
>       |   |     |     |   |             |       even-firing (180 deg)
> <- ___| 1 |    ___    | 4 |___      <-  |
> k         | 2 |   | 3 |             j   |       Fp=0
>           |___|   |___|                 |       Mp=0
>                                        2 3      Fs=4(R/L)Zcos2T
>                                                 Ms=0
>
>                                        j^
>                                         |
>        ___     j^      ___             1 4      Flat4:
> <-    |   |     |     |   |             |       even-firing (180 deg)
> k  ___| 1 |    ___    | 4 |___          | ->
>           | 2 |   | 3 |                 |  i    Fp=0
>           |___|   |___|                 |       Mp=0
>                                        2 3      Fs=0
>          a = crank spacing                      Ms=2a(R/L)Zcos2T
>
>
>                j^
>                 |                      j^
>               1   3                     |
>              ___                       1 2      Flat4:
>       <-    |   |                       |       even-firing (180 deg)
>       k  ___|   |    ___                | ->
>                 |   |                   |  i    Fp=0
>                 |___|                   |       Mp=2aZcosT
>                                        4 3      Fs=0
>               2   4                             Ms=0
>

how about:
	    1	 3
	   __    __
	  |  |  |  |
	__|  |  |  |   __
	     |  |  |  |
	     |__|  |__|
	
	       2     4		

if this is ridiculous, kindly explain why.. it's been more than 10 years
since i studied this stuff.  :-)

>Flat 4s and I4s both have the potential to be nearly vibration
>free.  Because Subaru does that has nothing to do with I4s in
>general or Porsche.

>I think Subaru somehow connecting themselves to Porsche is an
>absurdity, and I'm not a Porsche fan.  Big wing dings.  These
>configurations, overhead cams, etc, etc, etc, have been around
>for nearly 100 years. 

the point that they are trying to make is that while everybody settles
for the orthodox inline 4, they are using a horizontally opposed 4,
which is unique in that market segment.  and porsche also uses a flat
six in their 911, so what's the problem?  i don't see any claim that
their engine is as good as a porsche's.. they are simply pointing out
that they use the same configuration as a porsche.. if you want to
nitpick ad campaigns, i think there are far more blatant excesses than
this.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103691
From: dchan@cisco.com (Derek Chan)
Subject: Re: service indicator of a BMW


Thanks for all the recommendations. I have decide to ignore the service 
indicators and do oil change myself every 3000 miles.

Thanks again for all the responses. 

Derek

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103692
From: hsk@microplex.com (Harjeet Kalsi)
Subject: New Mercedes Diesels 

 
Hi fellow auto enthusiasts!

Does anyone have any info on the new 4 valve per cylinder diesels Mercedes
is working on?  Any specs on outputs, engine size, will they be direct or 
indirect injection?,  etc. would be welcome.  From what I hear these should 
be out late this year, next year??

Thank you in advance for your replies!

Harjeet
hsk@microplex.com

 



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103693
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: Replacement/Custom Seats, Where to get?

In article <C63uqs.H46@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Tom Wetzel <twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>In article <1993Apr26.154428.17764@colorado.edu> Jerry Bowman, bowmanj@csn.org
>writes:
>>          What car are we talking about? If its Camaro, Chevelle,GTO,
>>    Nova, Etc. there are a bunch of places to get them.
>
> A 68 Corvette but, I don't want to put Corvette seats in it.  The original
> seats are in exc. shape but they are uncomfortable as hell.  I'm going to
> store those and find a set to drive in.  I have all the Vette catalogs but
> I'm looking for a more generic type seat.  I can modify the brackets but 
> cushion height and overall width are a concern.  I've looked through some
> local boneyards without success.  I would just like to find a pair of 
> cheapo's to use this summer.  
> 
> Tom

         Call around to some wrecking yards in your area and,if they have
    any, look at Fiero seats. They are right down on the floor like a vette
    and not too wide.If you can't find any let me know and i'll call around
    here for you. I'm sure these yards ship stuff all the time.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103694
From: Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE (Thomas Tornblom)
Subject: Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles

In article <20726.2bcd8b62@ecs.umass.edu> sylveste@ecs.umass.edu writes:


   Before the S4 became the S4 it was called the 200 turbo quattro 20v.
   This model did come in a wagon, a very quick wagon.  Very rare also.

						      Mike Sylvester  Umass

Being a satisfied Audi owner (-90 100 turbo quattro. my 4:th Audi) I
get the free VAG magazine. The latest issue presented a new S4 Avant
(wagon) with a 4.2 litre V8. I'd like one of these ;-)

Btw, this is my second quattro and my third turbo and I must say that
even in the summer, with dry roads, the quattros give so much extra in
road holding and balance that I hope I can afford them always.

Thomas
--
Real life:      Thomas Trnblom           Email:  Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE
Snail mail:     Communicator Nexus AB     Phone:  +46 18 171814
                Box 857                   Fax:    +46 18 696516
                S - 751 08 Uppsala, Sweden

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103695
From: sbonsib@data.cac.stratus.com (Steve Bonsib)
Subject: After market sunroofs (power moonroof BIG $ type) who makes the best?

Hello all,

I know that after market sunroofs may have left a bad taste in some of  
your mouths, but I am really interested in finding a "good" brand if one  
exists.  Please let me know if you have heard of any makers with a good
reputation (few failures, no leaks, that sort of thing) and whether or
not you have had first hand experience with that manufacturer.  Who is
generally regarded in the industry as the "best" (price no object) maker  
of power sunroofs?? 

--Steve

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Bonsib 			| reply to: sbonsib@cac.stratus.com
Stratus Computer 		|  
Marlboro MA 			| 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103696
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Subject: WANTED: '92 Toyota Previa All-Trac, Low Miles

I'm looking to buy a '92 Toyota Previa All-Trac with low miles.
If you are selling one, or want someone to buy out an existing lease,
please contact me by mail.

-- 
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103697
From: leeab@soda.berkeley.edu (Ark-Boon Lee)
Subject: Centreforce Clutch


Any one with experience in having a centreforce clutch (or any other)
on his/her car?
I'm considering to replace my old stock clutch on my 90 CRX Si.
What is a fair price?

Martin

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103698
From: jackw@boi.hp.com (jack wood)
Subject: Re: Chevy/GMC 4x4 Fullsize Pickups, Opinions?

Dick Grady (grady@world.std.com) wrote:
: 
: I am considering buying a 1993 Chevy or GMC 4x4 full-size pickup with
: the extended cab.  Any opinions about these vehicles?  Have there been
: any significant problems?
: 
: -- 
: Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
: So many newsgroups, so little time!


I bought a brand new 1992 Chevrolet K2500 HD 4x4 extended cab last
May.  It has had many, many problems.  See my earler post that describes
the situation.  I went to BBB arbitration, and they ruled that Chevrolet
must buy it back from me.  If you do get one, stay away from the 5 speed
manual with the deep low first gear.  They have put three of them in my
truck so far.  After about 1,500 miles, overdrive either starts
rattling or hissing loudly.  There is no way to fix them.  Chevrolet 
says that the noise is "a characteristic of the transmission."

Also, if you are planning to use your truck to tow, the
gear ratios in that tranny suck.  On a steep hill, you get up to about
55 MPH in second gear at 4,000 RPM (yellow line).  If you shift to third,
the RPM drop to only 2,500, and you begin to loose speed.  I should
point out that the 350 V8 they put in the HD (8600 GVW) trucks is a
detuned motor compared to the one they put in the light duty ones.  They
dropped the compression ratio, supposedly for "engine longevity"
reasons.  So the light duty 350 may pull better than my truck does.
Other things that have gone wrong include the ventilation fan (3 times 
so far), paint (had specs of rust embedded in the paint from being
shipped by rail with no covering), and suspension parts (link between
stabilizer and control arm fell off).

Any company can make a bad individual car, Chevrolet included.  What
really bothered me was the way they reacted.  They made no attempt
to deal with me except to tell me to take it back to the dealer for 
them to attempt to fix it one more time.  So I bought a brand new
Ford F250 HD Super Cab with a 460 and an automatic.  I will never
buy another Chevrolet.

jackw@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103699
From: ae015@Freenet.carleton.ca (Steve Hui)
Subject: High-mileage Audi question


A question for any high-mileage Audi owners out there: I am
interested in buying a 1989 Audi 5000S for $5500 Cdn.  The
reason the car is selling for so little is that is has
155000 km on it (just under 100000 mi.).  The car's owner
claims the car is in good condition.  My question is: how
reliable are Audi 5000s with mileage that high?  Would it
be worthwhile for me to buy the car?  Any problem areas that
I should look out for?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Post responses and/or
e-mail me.

Thanks

Steve Hui
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103700
From: Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE (Thomas Tornblom)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:

     I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
   have v engines.

   V4 - I don't know of any.
   V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?

VW Golf/Passat 2.8l VR6 (inline V6!), very narrow angle (11 deg?), one head.
Audi 80/100 2.6/2.8l V6

   V8 - Don't know of any.

Audi V8 3.6/4.2l
Some MBs
Some BMWs

   V12 - Jaguar XJS
BMW 750/850
MB *600*

    Please add to the list.


    Thanks,
    -S
    ssave@ole.cdac.com
--
Real life:      Thomas Trnblom           Email:  Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE
Snail mail:     Communicator Nexus AB     Phone:  +46 18 171814
                Box 857                   Fax:    +46 18 696516
                S - 751 08 Uppsala, Sweden

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103701
From: finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>
>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>
>
>eliot

Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
"underscore 4")?

Kenneth
finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil





Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103702
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: RE: IMPALA SS GOING INTO


In a previous article, george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) says:

>GM has always screwed the rest of the divisions in favor of the
>Corvette. The current platform is no exception. The "detuned" Camaro and
>Firebird is a load of crap to keep people from realizing that they can
>buy one of these instead of a Corvette and save about $10,000.
>
>I like the idea of an Impala SS, but if they really wanted to impress
>me, they would throw in a big phat 454. Imagine the cops in their Taurus
>police package 3.0 and 3.8 litres as they stare at your taillights...


gimme a break!  you KNOW chevy'd screw that up just like that almost great
truck with the "big phat 454".  Have you ever seen the mufflers on that 
thing??it's amazing it moves....(which isn't to say it's not a good idea,
but i'm quite sure chevy'd screw it up the same way)

DREW
>George Howell
>
>     _____
>  __|     |____            M   M   OOO  PPP   AAA   RRR
> /            /            MM MM  O   O P  P A   A  R  R
>/___       __/             M M M  O   O PPP  AAAAA  RRR
>    |______|               M   M  O   O P    A   A  R  R
> _________________         M   M   OOO  P    A   A  R  R
>/                 \        :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>|      FORD       |        :'Better Living Through American Horsepower':
>\_________________/        :George Howell                              :
>                           :george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org      :
>                           :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>                                                                                                                        
>

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103703
From: buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>My car was recently destroyed in a hail storm.  [...]
>I fully expected to get jerked around by the insurance company.
>I wasn't the only one who had hail damage.  State Farm
>opened its claim centers on evenings and weekends, and flew down
>additional adjusters from Dallas.

i have no experience with State Farm, but i think it's important to
differentiate your experience from a typical "accident."

hail damage is clearly not the fault of the owner, and also tends to
be well publicized in the media, so it's to the ins. co.'s benefit
to respond promptly and helpfully.  damage like this doesn't imply
anything about the likelihood of future claims (unless you live in an
area that gets frequent damaging hail storms), so there's no reason
for them to stop covering you.
that's a lot different from at-fault accidents or theft-related claims,
which may be more indicative of claim patterns.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103704
From: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com (Antonio L. Balsamo (Save the wails))
Subject: Re: Warped brake discs on '91 Taurus L


From: bsw@utrc.utc.com (Bruce S. Winters)
Subject: Re: Warped brake discs on '91 Taurus L

   >In the past few years I have owned 3 Mustang GTs and now own a 91 T-Bird
   >SC.  They all have had this problem. There was a recall on the T-bird for
   >the brake problem. The Ford dealer replaced the rotors and pads but the
   >rotors warp after about 10K miles. Between this problem and the fit and
   >finish problems on the T-Bird I'll never buy a Ford again.

       I just had my rotors on my '92 Taurus GL changed less than 500 miles
   ago and...you guessed it, I'm noticing slight warpage in the left rotor.
   :-(  I had a mechanic friend of mine look at it and he said that there is a
   high spot on the rotor that is causing the problem.  This is a brand new
   rotor bought from a Ford Dealership.  Can't they even produce a brand new
   rotor that is not warped?  I'm currently negotiating with them to swap it
   out for a new rotor.

       This is my first American build car and I'm not overly impressed.

   Tony
--

            +--------------------------------------------------+
            |   Name: Antonio L. Balsamo             /_/\/\    |
            |Company: Digital Equipment Corp.        \_\  /    |
            |         Shrewsbury, Mass.              /_/  \    |
            | Work #: (508) 841-2039                 \_\/\ \   |
            | E-mail: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com       \_\/   |
            +--------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103705
From: pwe@slipknot.mit.edu (Paul W. Emery)
Subject: V4 engines

On the subject of the V4,Ford in the UK used V4 engines exstensively in
their Ford Transit vans.This brings back a memory from the seventies.I
played in a band at the time and for something like 180 pounds four of
us bought a 1967 "tranny" to cart the gear around in.It was in terrible
shape (cosmetically) because it's last owner was a pig farmer.We spent
days cleaning it up and putting in a partition and more seating but 'til
the day it died everytime you turned on the fan to the defroster dried
pig shit came flying out the vents!!!.
    Back to the engine if I remember right it was a 1600cc V4 and that
thing could haul,we could fill it with equipment and up to 8 people and
it went like a bat out of hell,of course there were no pollution controls
on the engine and the gas was leaded and higher octane than we get now.
    When the mechanical fuel pump quit we put in an electric one from a 
Morris Minor that worked great. Ah fond memories.



-- 
pwe@slipknot.mit.edu                 "I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
Paul W. Emery                       Ron Nasty--The Rutles
M I T Magnet Lab Cambridge Mass U.S.A.   
COSTELLOBEATLESSPINALTAPFAWLTYTOWERSMUTTSAVENGERSSTARTREK.TNGENGLANDRUTLES  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103706
From: pzh@aeg.dsto.gov.au (Paul Heuer)
Subject: Re: Lemon Law -- Does anyone know the law?

kchupp@kchupp (Kevin Chupp) writes:


>My father is have lots of problems with a 2 year old van.  What is the
>lemon law?  What should he do if he qualifies?

Talk to Philip Greenspun. He took Ford to court recently and, despite much
manouvering and trickery on Ford's part, he won! Well, actually I think
Ford settled out of court on the provision he shut his mouth and stopped 
causing them trouble. I love it when the little guy wins. I don't have
Philip's address anymore, but a "Philip, where are you" call may bring him
out of hiding.

Cheers,
Paul.
-- 
Paul Heuer           | Phone  : +61 8 259 6453 | Avionics Technology - DSTO
pzh@aeg.dsto.gov.au  | FAX    : +61 8 259 5507 | PO Box 1500, Salisbury
                                               | South Australia, 5108

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103707
From: sar28@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Stuart Alexander Ridgway)
Subject: Re: MR2 seats for sale

In article <1993Apr26.193657.10019@ultb.isc.rit.edu> adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>In article <1993Apr26.155800.29900@noao.edu>, groves@noao.edu (Lee Groves) writes:
>>
>>As the owner of an MR2, and having several friends who own them,
>>I am very uncomfortable when I see an ad like this. 
>>   ...
>>When these seats are seen for sale, they are *most often* stolen.
>>So it would be nice to see a statement saying where they came from.
>>   ...
>>I'll give this seller the benefit of the doubt, but people should be
  ^^^  ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^^
>>aware the the vast majority of MR2 seats on the market--especially
>>those that are in Celicas--are stolen.
>>
>I am the original owner of the seats and the original poster. 
> 
>I take VERY serious offence in your statement. 
Me thinks thee dost protest too much....  1/2 :-)
> ....
>Please in the future think before you make allegations like the above.

He made no allegations, and specifically gave the seller the benefit of the
doubt.  He simply made the net aware of the fact that many of these seats are
stolen, so watch out and ask questions when buying.  That's good advice to
follow when buying _anything_ from a third party, on the net or elsewhere.
>It hurts.
Touchy, touchy...
>Mike.S

-- Alex Ridgway


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103708
From: jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <1993Apr22.192652.3032@virginia.edu> jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blade Runner") writes:
>I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
>that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
>will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
>way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
>100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
>Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
>there hear anything about it recently?


If everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but "re-
skinning" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications.
And the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job
of it.  

The "new" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car.

Jeff




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103709
From: blair@med.uvm.edu (Blair Robertson)
Subject: Re: service indicator of a BMW

dchan@cisco.com (Derek Chan) writes:
: 
: In article <1993Apr22.130721.4420@westminster.ac.uk>, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
: |> Derek....
: |> 
: |> There is a tool available to reset the service indicator on BMWs but the lights
: |> will come back on after 2-3 weeks. The tool is in fact illegal (in Europe 
: |> atleast). It is often the case that the unsuspecting punter trots off to buy a 
: |> used BMW and a few weeks later, all the lights come on! Other than that, I know 
: |> of no other tool.... anyone else? 
: |> 
: Shaz,
: 
: Hmm.. but the service indicators that I have works this way:
:   There are 5 green,1 yellow, 1 red indicators.
:   initially all green indicators will be on for few minutes when you start
:   your car. The computer will actually "sense" how you drive your car and
:   as time goes by the green indicators will start to go off one by one and
:   then the yellow indicator will turn on and then the red indicator will go
:   on. And you should get service when by the time green indicators are off.
:   
:   After service the mechanic(or you) will reset the service indicators and the
:   computer starts counting again.
: 
: So I expect to have a tool(or a procedure) to reset it so the green lights will 
: come on and the yellow and red lights will go off.
: 
: I wonder how people can do oil change themself without knowing how to reset the
: indicator.
: 
: It's the first european car I have and changing oil at 15,000 miles is a 
: surprise to me. and it's a big plus :-). But I wonder how that could happen
: since the oil lose its lubrication ability over time, I thought it's the oil and
: not the vehicle that determines how often we should change oil.
: 
: Any BMW owner on the net? Response welcomed.
: 
: PS.  my initial question is "how do you seset the service indicator of a BMW"
: 
: Derek 

There is a perfectly legal tool available to reset the Bimmer service lights.
It will cost you 45$ from a mailorder, and buying one far outweighs
the possible consequences of destroying all the electronics if you try
di it yourself. 
You wonder how people do an oil change without knowing how it reset.
Why is reseting so important? The only reason for doing
it is stop the annoyance of a red light staring at you. 
Forget this 'in european cars you only need to change the oil every
15000' crap. Anyone serious about keeping their engine in good shape, and
extending its life, will change it every 3000, (inc filter). Don't wait
for the servive lights to come on before servicing the car. 
I bought a bmw about 6 months ago, it had 3 green lights on. I have changed
the oil every 3000, completly flushed brake fliud, changed all filters(oil,
air and fuel, changed transmission and drive oils
and done almost all of the other things req for service 1
and a service 2. After nearly 6000 miles, I am still on 2 green lights.
After a winter in Burlington (and it is snowing today!!) that is not bad.

Good luck!  

Blair

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blair E. Robertson		             A New Zealander in Vermont
University of Vermont		             posting his own ideas.........
Medical Research Facilty
Smooth Muscle Ion Channel Group
Colchester 
Vermont 05446-2500
email blair@northpole.med.uvm.edu
Telephone: (802) 656-8930
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103710
From: jamesl@galaxy.nsc.com (James Lu x3702)
Subject: How good is car wash wax?


QUESTION: what's your experience with car wash wax?

This is the liquid type of wax in bottles that you pour it in
water, sponge it on you car, hose it off, and dry it with cloth.
Many people have used it. It is very easy to work with and gives
seeminly the same visual results as that of paste type of wax.

But, does it last long? Does it have any negative effects to car
paint?

Can you forward your reply directly to my email id? Thanks.

James


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103711
From: mrice@mozart.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Mark W. Rice)
Subject: Re: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO

In article <24326.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us> david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds)  writes:
>
>GK>Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse.  The shifter
>GK>refuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to
>GK>get it into gear.  I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple
>GK>of months.
>
>Enter 1st, wait 2-3 seconds and then go into reverse.  They use the same
>synchros, and you'll never (at least I haven't) ground-em-to-fit when using
>this technique.

Or do like the manual says and put it in 3rd first, then you can quickly
go into reverse... no waiting.

mark
-- 
-- mark rice   803-791-6361    mark.rice@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM     My views.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103712
From: walkerr@aspen.WPI.EDU (Robert A Walker)
Subject: Re: BRONCOS


>Does anybody have any information on the second generation Broncos? (I'm
>not talking about Bronco II's, I'm referring to the Broncos that began
>production in 1978 based on the F-150 chassis I believe)

	Ahh Broncos.  Well personally, I have a '78.  The blue book is just
a hair over 3 grand.  I bought it for 2500 and then bought new tires 650
front end rebuild 350, carb rebuild 130.  Then i did the unthinkable
and blew the engine (not bronco specific, unmaintained engine with 168,000)
2400 more bucks there, now it is in nice condition, well after new seats out
of a t-bird, radio, 2 amps, speakers, alarm, well the radio and amps were 
free and i bought the speakers used for 40 bucks, and the other speakers
i took out of my old jeep (Sell a Jeep for a bronco you might ask,
but it was a Wagoneer).  Its a lovely specimen, solid front and rear
axels, ford 9" and a dana 44 up front.  Watch the rear axel wrap, i 
busted off my u-bolts ONCE, i added traction shocks after that and 
haven't had a problem since.  Also the bottom of the doors tend to 
rot, bottom of the tailgates likes to rust right up to the new ones
that might be in your budget.  The post 80 broncos have that sickly
TTB front end and little stamped and folded steel radius arms were
as the 78-79 have nice big cast iron longer radius arms(ie more prspective
wheel travel).  The only rust i have is on my doors and a few
dings in the sheet metal.  I don't know when the removeable tops were
discontinued but they are fun.  I just ordered a full convertable top
for 400$ for mine(credit card).  Don't ever break the window if you
have the double laminated bronzed privacy glass in your cap it is over
400 bucks to replace.  My bronco also does pretty good offroad,
i haven't bottomed out my suspension, YET, and have crossed over
3 foot deep of water with no problems, handles rocks like a charm too.
One problem is it is WIDE and you sometimes can't follow a CJ or a
Toyota, between two rocks or trees, and your grandmother will have
a hard time getting up into it.

BOB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103713
From: mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu (Mark Walker)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

In article <1993Apr22.133415.21443@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, sjcostan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Scott J Costanzo) writes:
>...  He was as smooth as silk. It was
>the most amazing shifting demonstration I've ever seen! Having said all that I 
>still don't know why anyone would want to shift a synchronized tranny without a
>clutch? Why do it?

Ego Trip...

-- 
Mark Walker			| My old man always said:
mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu	|	"Too much is just right!"
505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)	| Guess that applies to my preferences
Albuquerque, NM			| in performance cars.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103714
From: mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu (Mark Walker)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

In article <93112.103631LRR105@psuvm.psu.edu>, <LRR105@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>I HAVE, THEY SHOWED THE FOOT CAM AND TELEMETRY FOR RUSTY WALLACE SHIFTING AT AT
>LANTA LAST YEAR AND HE NEVER TOUCHED THE CLUTCH EXCEPT VERY SLIGHTLY WHEN DOWN
>SHIFTING - 700 HP IS PRETTY POWERFUL TO ME

I doubt his trans uses standard syncros.  There are several mechanisms for
coupling a gear with the transmission output shaft, some of which are fine
for racing and unsuitable for street use.

-- 
Mark Walker			| My old man always said:
mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu	|	"Too much is just right!"
505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)	| Guess that applies to my preferences
Albuquerque, NM			| in performance cars.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103715
From: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti

In article <AfqzkhS00iV1E2YIss@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph D. Mazza" <mazz+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>BTW, I just saw the new Q45 on TV this weekend.  The big changes: a
>GRILLE has been added (looks nice, too!), and some WOOD for the
>interior.  Otherwise, it looked largely unchanged. 

They changed the lights and slope of the hood, along with the new
grille.  Otherwise, it is unchanged.

Interestingly, their lack of wood and lack of a grille was a BIG
design statement... they tried to defy conventional wisdom and carve
their own niche ... unfortunately, sales were only half those of the
LEXUS and hence, they now join the pack.  I still wonder if much of
the problem wasn't the slow start from the initial AD campaign.

Personally, I like the Q without the Grille.
-- 
Steve Morris, M.A.    : Internet: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu
Addiction Studies Pgm : uucp    :{uw-beaver,uunet!gtenmc!dataio}!sumax!smorris
Seattle University    : Phone   : (206) 296-5350 (dept) or 296-5351 (direct)
Seattle, WA 98122_____:________________________________________________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103716
From: pbhandar@tsegw.tse.com (Parminder Bhandari)
Subject: Info about Audi 90 (used)

I am thinking of buying a used Audi 90 Auto.

These cars look good and Audi do have a good rep. for these cars in Europe
(where I'm from).

I was just wondering if there anything about these cars that I should know.

--Parms.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103717
From: pbhandar@tsegw.tse.com (Parminder Bhandari)
Subject: Question about Integra Auto box


I'm new to this group and this may have been discussed already, in which case
my apologies, but...

I have a '92 Integra with an auto box. According to the manual the car has
a lock up torque converter, or something similar.

What is it, what does it do and how does it work?

(Excuse my ignorance).

Does anybody know?

--Parms.

(no sig yet)


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103718
From: pbhandar@tsegw.tse.com (Parminder Bhandari)
Subject: New Integra for '94?

I've heard *unconfirmed* rumours that there is a new Integra being released
for '94.

Does anybody have any info on this?

The local sales people know as much as I can throw them.

--Parms.

(still no sig).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103719
From: mhembruc@tsegw.tse.com (Mattias Hembruch)
Subject: Re: Driver's Seat "best cars of the year"

tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) writes:


>The Golf also won AJAC's (Automobile Journalists' Association of Canada)
>1993 Car of the Year award.

And unless I am mistaken (I screwed up my borrowed VCR and got the first 2
minutes :-), the Corrado SLC was awarded AJAC's Sports (Sporty?) Car of the
Year..

Mattias

>-- 
>[ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
>[       "stick your index fingers into both corners of your mouth.  now pull ]
>[          up.  that's how the corrado makes you feel."  -- car, january '93 ]
-- 
Mattias Hembruch
>> My views do not necessarily reflect those of the TSE. <<
E-mail: mhembruc@tse.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103720
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting


In a previous article, lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) says:

>In article <93112.103631LRR105@psuvm.psu.edu> <LRR105@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>I'm not familiar with the trannies used in Winston Cup, but in the trans-am
>cars I've played with the  transmissions were the racing variety, with
>dog clutches instead of sychros.  In a transmission with dog clutches, the
>gears are always  engaged with each other and moving the dog clutches
>engages the gears to the shafts.  Motorcycle transmissions are the same way.
>Shifting without the clutch on a transmission with syncros can and will cause
>transmission damage, the only question being how long it  takesto grenade
>something (for the trans in my 87  Pulsar SE, it was  about 3-5k miles, but
>it had a weak  tranny in the first place).

just out of curiosity, how is this "dog clutch" any different from a synchro
transmission.  What you described SOUNDS the same to me.  In fact, what little
i've studied on trannies, the instructor referred to the synchros as "dogs"
and said they were synonymous.  The gears are always meshed in a synchronized
gearbox, and you slip the synchro gears back and forth by shifting. Or at least,
that is what i was taught.  Explain, por favour?

thanx
DREW
ps email's fine if this is inappropriate for here, or if i'm the only bonhead
who doesn't know the diff.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103721
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?


In a previous article, finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil () says:

>In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
>eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>>
>>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>>
>>
>>eliot
>
>Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
>really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
>"underscore 4")?

i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103722
From: goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL)
Subject: Which radar detector should I buy?

I just entered the market for a Radar Detector and am looking for
any & all advice/recommendations/warnings/etc from anyone in 
this group.

Email is preferred.

Thanks.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103723
From: antkasx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (K A Sturrock)
Subject: Re: Viper Car Alarms

u1815@cs.uiuc.edu (Ronald E Garnett) writes:

Ron> Viper also sells some fancy field disturbance sensor that
Ron> supposedly detects people approcahing the car....

Ron

If your Viper system were tuned like a neighbor's is you wouldn't get
any sleep because of the damn thing waking every one in the neighborhood
up.

We all used to try to ignore the alarm, but have now made a pact to
bombard the house with night-time visits and phone calls when ever we
are awakened because some thunder storm passed over the next county
or a stray dog looked at the car.

Car alarms are a serious pain-in-the-ass!

						-ks

p.s. Real men don't have car radios since the exhaust is too loud to
     hear it anyway <GRIN>!
-- 

_________________________________________________________________________
K A Sturrock * Anthropology * Georgia State University * ksturroc@gsu.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103724
From: cadiz@rtsg.mot.com (Jay Cadiz)
Subject: GTS Headlight Covers

I have a 90 Eagle Talon and I wanted a pair of GTS 
Headlight covers.  Actually, they are turning signal
covers since the Talons that year had pop-up lights.
I went to a auto shop and bought the tail-light 
blackouts for $45, but they did not have the turning
signal covers in stock.  I asked how much it would be
and he told me it would cost me another $40.  I thought
this was a bit high for two small pieces of plastic.
Can anyone find me a cheaper pair or even a used one?


Jay Cadiz
cadiz@marble.rtsg.mot.com
Motorola, Inc.
Arlington Heights, IL

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103725
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?


In a previous article, Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE (Thomas Tornblom) says:

>In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>
>     I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>   have v engines.
>
>   V4 - I don't know of any.
>   V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>
>VW Golf/Passat 2.8l VR6 (inline V6!), very narrow angle (11 deg?), one head.
                                                          ~~15

>Audi 80/100 2.6/2.8l V6
>
>   V8 - Don't know of any.
>
>Audi V8 3.6/4.2l
>Some MBs
>Some BMWs
>
>   V12 - Jaguar XJS
>BMW 750/850
>MB *600*
>
>    Please add to the list.
>
>
>    Thanks,
>    -S
>    ssave@ole.cdac.com
>--
>Real life:      Thomas Trnblom           Email:  Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE
>Snail mail:     Communicator Nexus AB     Phone:  +46 18 171814
>                Box 857                   Fax:    +46 18 696516
>                S - 751 08 Uppsala, Sweden
>

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103726
From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
Subject: Re: Manual Xmission-Advice needed...

 I don't think that a transmission fluid change will solve your problem.
 Unless you are in an extremely cold climate and using a very heavy weight
 fluid.  Follow the manufacturer's recommended oil weight.  Some of the
 cars I have had (all standard transmissions 4 or 5 speeds) recommend
 changing the transmission fluid at 30,000 miles under normal driving
 conditions.  I've gone 100,000 without changing the transmission oil (and
 had to replace the transmission bearings!). My older cars used 85 weight
 oil whereas my 92 Honda uses 10-30 motor oil (or maybe 30 weight).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103727
From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
Subject: Re: Changing brake fluid..is it necessary..

I agree with Jeff's reply.  I've never changed the brake fluid except when
having a brake job, which is usually at around 80,000 miles (alot of
freeway driving).  However, I will start to do this as preventative
maintenance on my new car.  Also, there are brake system flushing agents
that can be used but the problem is that if any of the agent is left in the
system, it can cause problems, so it's been recommended NOT to use them unless
you are 100% certain that you can remove all of the flushing agent.  Just for
your info, I was quoted a price of: labor=$29.95 and fluid=$9.95 for
flushing the brake system; this in conjunction with a break job so I don't
know if it was more without the brake job. This is in the S.F Bay Area.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103728
From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
Subject: Re: Vibration when brakes are applied

Hi Javier, (how are things at Corp, my old stomping ground was c-level?)
Vibration when applying the brakes can be caused, on disc brakes at least,
by warped rotors. When the brakes are applied, there results uneven pressure
on the rotor.  Turning the rotors by a brake shop will remedy this problem
as long as there is enough rotor width left for turning (i.e. within spec).
There could be some possible front end suspension problem but a brake shop
should be able to confirm warped rotors by a visual inspection which is free.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103729
From: wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

In article <1r7cr2INNvar@sumax.seattleu.edu> smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris) writes:
>The Villager-Quest seem like the best of the Cravan/Voyager copies to
<come along since the Mazda MPV.  The NISSAN MAXIMA engine paired with
>the MAXIMA 4 speed Auto Trans should be an excellent drive train, and
<the rest of the vehicle seems well engineered.  Only the price is
>controversial.

Hmm.  The last time I checked, Villager/Quest does not have a Maxima
engine, and is very much under powered for its weight.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103731
From: chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry)
Subject: Re: V4 engines

In article <1993Apr23.183318.4635@ll.mit.edu> singer@ll.mit.edu (Matthew R. Singer) writes:
>Didn't the Saab Sonnett have a V4? I recall someone telling that it was
>something like 1/2 of a Ford 289.

Not only the Sonett (correct spelling), but the 95 wagon and 96 sedan
used a 1500 cc or 1700 cc V-4 from Ford of Germany.  This particular
motor had a 60 degree vee angle, a balance shaft and siamesed exhaust
ports.  This motor was later stretched into the V-6 commonly seen in the
Capri.

The V-4 could make pretty reasonable power for its size.  But in the
Saab, it made too much torque for the transmission, which had been
designed for a 3-cylinder 2-stroke.

 -- Chuck Fry, former Sonett III owner


-- 
		  Chuck Fry  chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov
			 [this space for rent]
	  I alone bear responsibility for the claptrap above.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103732
From: kmac@cisco.com (Karl Elvis MacRae)
Subject: Ford Explorer question, and SUV review.


	Ok, so in my ongoing search for a sport utility, here's the latest;


Toyota 4runner:

	 Small. Small Small Small. The interior of this vehical is impossible
	for a large person. Too bad; it would have been the winner otherwise.

Nissan Pathfinder:
	
	Very low ceiling. My head hit the roof, Fun on bumps, no? Also has
	a cheap-looking interior.

Isuzu Trooper:

	Class act. This is a really, really nice vehical. Very comfortable,
	handled ok. Has really cool grab handles EVERYWHERE. But it's huge,
	and the engine is a bit too small for it's bulk; also the manual shift is 
	weird and kind of awkward. I'd buy this if it were $3k cheaper or 10"
	shorter. But at this size and for this price, no. I kept picturing trying to 
	park in in San Francisco. No Thanks.


Chevy Blazer:

	Cheap looking. Small. Not as small as the Toyota and Nissan, but still 
	too small.

Ford Explorer:

	This is no sports car, and it's certainly not for the serious off roader.
	But it's big enough to be comfortable without being as huge and heavy as the
	trooper. It's engine has plenty of power for everyday driving, though it would
	be nice if it had a *bit* more. The automatic tranny is pretty nice; head and
	shoulders above my '90 mazda MPV. The steering is not as tight as I'd like,
	but it's acceptable. The two door has easy-to-enter back seats (Easier to get
	into, in fact, than the driver's seat of the 4runner!) and with a 10" shorter
	wheelbase and the easier availability of a manual tranny, (Yes, I'm a manual 
	shift biggot, I admit it...) it's the one I'm thinking of buying. 


	So, that said, is there anyone out there who has one of these and hates it?
	Anyone had any major problems? Heard any horror stories? 

	Also, any reason to buy the ford over the mazda Navajo, both being essentially
	the same vehical?


			Thanks-


	-Karl
 
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Karl Elvis MacRae	Software Release Support	Cisco Systems
  kmac@cisco.com -or- batman@cisco.com     415-688-8231   DoD# 1999  FJ1200
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
	      "Shovels and rakes and implements of destruction"
						-Arlo Guthrie

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103733
From: cm@cci632.cci.com (Carl Mercer)
Subject: Corvette car cover for sale

I'm not sure if this made it out so i'll try again.

I have an Ecklar's (sp?) Corvette car cover for sale.  The cover is canvas
on the outside and felt on the inside.  It is weather proof and in great
condition.  I'm asking $95.00 and I'll pay shipping.  (originally $175.00
in October of 1992).

                                        Carl Mercer
                                        cm@cci.com
                                        (716) 359-0895 evening
                                        (716) 654-2652 day

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103734
From: pp29616@dcl-nextsc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Park)
Subject: Re: New Integra for '94?

In article <C63ypt.47D@tsegw.tse.com> pbhandar@tsegw.tse.com (Parminder  
Bhandari) writes:
> I've heard *unconfirmed* rumours that there is a new Integra being  
released
> for '94.
> Does anybody have any info on this?
> The local sales people know as much as I can throw them.
> --Parms.
> (still no sig).

here we go again...
now these are just rumors.. so dont quote me.

New Integra supposedly wedge shaped again.  175 hp and all-wheel drive
in top models.  Then a variant called the zx-r comes later. (roadster?).

i think it gets unveiled at end of summer.

Nothing about an airbag was mentioned, but im sure it'll have one.
along with a nice hefty increase in sticker... ???

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103735
From: dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <1993Apr16.162950.25849@newsgate.sps.mot.com> rapw20@email.sps.mot.com writes:
>
>before you go in. Find out the invoice prices of the car, add a reasonable  
>profit for the dealer ($200-$300??), offer them that price and stick to  
>it.

Whoa!  Watch your terminology.  "Dealer invoice" is *not* "dealer cost".
You'll hear lots of ads screaming "two dollars over dealer invoice!!!"
Sounds like a real deal, huh?  No.  You know what the "dealer invoice"
(also called factory invoice) is?  It's a piece of paper with numbers
on it that the factory sends the dealer.  What do the numbers
signify?  Absolutely nothing.  It's a marketing gimmick that the
salesman can wave in your face to impress you.  Note that nowhere
on the "invoice" does it claim to be the real price of the car, and
most ads which mention dealer invoice will end with a very fast,
low voice saying something like "invoice may not reflect actual
dealer cost".  Actually, I *guarantee* it does not reflect actual
dealer cost.

Also, the reasonable profit for dealer is usually around three percent.
Adjust according to the dealer cost of the car and any options that
you want.  Haggle like hell with the salesman over the cost of
"dealer prep" and "protection package" (i.e. a few squirts of
paint and fabric protectant).  While you're at it, ask the salesman
to toss in a thing or two that doesn't cost him any cash.  My 
wife and I got a joyride in a twin-turbo Mitsubishi 3000GT when
we bought our Mitsubishi mini-van.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103736
From: newman@cps.msu.edu (Timothy S Newman)
Subject: Ford Probe, Import Car of the Year


Okay, okay, I know the Ford Probe is made in the US, in fact it's
made in Michigan, at a Mazda plant.  My question: are most of the parts
from American or Japanese sources?  I have been told that most of the US
assembly plants for Japanese automakers import almost all of the parts used in
the vehicles.

Any information anyone has on this will be appreciated!

Tim Newman
newman@cps.msu.edu



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103737
From: behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector

In article <1993Apr26.150614.27597@westminster.ac.uk> jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
>Hi - now that we have these GATSO photo speed traps here, I was wondering if 
>anyone knows if radar detectors are capable of detecting photo cameras? If
>not, are there any other devices which will? 

	Yup.  Radar detectors that detect Ka band will pick up photo radar
as it's reflected from some poor slob ahead of you that just got nailed.

	BTW, many photo radar installations in the southern U.S. became
targets for high-powered rifles, or had their lenses "decorated" with cow
flop, etc.  Not that I'm advocating destruction of public property, but you
get the picture....

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103738
From: CPB004@email.mot.com (Philip Bush)
Subject: Re: Plug wires -- Do they really need replacement?

In article <1rgvv2$am4@haven.umd.edu>, vadik@cs.umd.edu (Vadim Maslov)
wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi, netters
> 
> I went to "All Tune and Lube" for routine maintenance
> and they said I need to change plug wires because
> they are original ones and "you driven 70+ K miles on them".
> I had a strong suspicion that they just wanted to make money.
> Wires had no visible defects and my repair manual doesn't
> recommend any scheduled maintenance for them.
> 
> Is it "plain vanilla" rip off? 
> Or there can be some backing behind 
> their suggestion to replace wires?
> 
> I have Ford Taurus 86.
> 
> 
> Vadim Maslov.


I once had a sparking problem with my '65 Mustang, and simply changing
the spark plug wires fixed it.

/===============================================================\
| Philip Bush                      |     National Champion      |
| Motorola, Inc., Schaumburg, IL   |    SHO Convention Show     |
| Email: CPB004@email.mot.com      |    3rd Place - Concours    |
| Phone: (708) 576-3175            |           Judged           |
\===============================================================/

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103739
From: johnn@eskimo.com (John Navitsky)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT)

In article <...> heiser@acs2.bu.edu (Bill Heiser) writes:
>In article <...> chuck@eos.ncsu.edu (Chuck Kesler) writes:
>>>"Jeremy G. Mereness" <zonker+@CMU.EDU> says:

>>>>Can anyone offer any opinions of the Ford Probe... ala how they do in
>>>>the long run, repair records, reliability, mileage, etc?

I've found mine ('93 Probe GT) to do quite well.  

[window problem deleted, artical has been trimmed]

>I have had my Probe looked at twice by my local dealer (where I purchased
>the car) ... the first time, they made this problem worse.  The second time,
>after advising them of the service bulletin mentioned on my ford-probe mailing
>list (they said they didn't know of the bulletin), they adjusted the window and
>made it *much* better.  However it now makes a "scritch scritch" noise on rough
>roads, and *still* squeals when I open/close the window in wet weather (anyone
>elses's do this?)

I've not had any of the air or leakage problems that have been reported but
do get the squeal that Bill describes.  I live in Seattle so the wet weather
may be a factor.

>>>Ford only gives 1 key with the car.  C'mon Ford, spend an extra few pennies!

If I recall correctly I got two keys.

>>>horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in 
>>>center (personal preference)

>"you've-got-to-position-the-fingers-perfectly-to-make-it-beep" buttons are
>TERRIBLE.

This is true.  I'm wondering if this may be a safety concern.  IE, if people
pound on the place where the airbag lives...

>>Speaking of the horn, I was surprised to find that the Probe comes with one
>>of those nice 'merican sounding horns instead of the Japanese sounding kind.
>>The previous Probes had Japanese horns.

No opinion.

>>>transmission (the 5 speed is a must)

>I have always been a 5-speed guy.  Almost every car I've ever owned has been
>a 5-speed.  Because I got a good deal on this car with the 2500 miles, I
>(knowingly) overlooked the fact that it has an automatic.  But it is a pretty
>high-tech automatic.  It is a fully electronicaly controlled 4-speed with

The 5 speed is much more fun.  We opted for the automatic for a number of
reasons but it's still fun, and in some ways more practical.

>>>No shake/rattle noises when going over bumps/potholes (still!)

Ditto.

>Shakes and rattles has been my main gripe.  I've gotten them to fix the
>worst of them, but I fear that with the rather harsh ride, the car will
>be a virtual potpouri of rattles when it gets older.

I too would suspect that this may be true.

>>>Tires: 225/55VR16 Goodyear Eagles (70% left; hoping for 30K :-)

>very very very well.  It sticks to the road like glue, even on a rough
>surface.

Yes!

>>interior is very, very nice too.  Very pleasing to the eye, and ergonomically
>>sound.

>Definitely.  Ford/Mazda did a very very nice job on this one.  The
>car has a "much more expensive than it actually is" look and feel to it.

Ditto.

>>Yes, this car's stiff suspension isn't for everyone.  I personally like it,
>>but if you find it a little harsh but otherwise like the car, I'd strongly
>>suggest looking into the MX-6.

Agree. Check it out.  I don't mind it but would say that if it was much 
stiffer it might be a problem.  (How about the '93 R1 RX-7 for suspension?!) 

>Well I wouldn't encourage passenger-carrying in the Probe unless the
>person in the front seat likes to sit with his knees to the dash.  As
>mentioned in the Consumer Reports write-ups, "consider the back seat
>as a parcel shelf".  No biggie to me though (if it had been, I'd not
>have bought the car!  (but it's definitely not a family car)).

True.  

>>>I've heard that the exhaust system has trouble, but mine works fine.

>>I haven't heard about this one.  I know that some of the very early Probes
>>('89 and maybe '90) had problems with prematurely rusting mufflers (which

I've had this problem and read about it.  (or at least I assume the one
I had was the one I read about :-).  In any case what happened was the
weld between the muffler and the pipe feeding it (ok, so I'm not a mechanic)
broke.  In my case the dealer welded it, ordered replacement parts and
put them on when they got them.  I suspect this is some sort of 1) design
flaw, or 2) production flaw.  In any case I have an earlier model and would
expect it to be worked out on newer ones.  In any case it is a warrantee
repair.  (or they get the keys back!)

>>From what I've heard, it sounds like Ford/Mazda had some QC problems with 
>>the Probe (and probably MX-6) when they first went into production, but 
>>I think these problems have mostly been corrected at this point.  That's
>>almost always to be expected with a completely new car like this, though.

>I have to agree that they seem to have some QC problesm.  But I seriously
>feel the car design is sound, and expect it to do very well.

I second this.  There seems to be some things that slipped through but the
car seems very sound.  While not perfection (what is) you get an awful
lot for your money.

>-- 
>Bill Heiser    heiser@acs.bu.edu, heiser@world.std.com
>               Boston University, Boston MA   

BTW, Bill has a Probe mailing list.  You might want to subscribe to it if 
you are interested in more detail.  Try request-ford-probe@world.std.com
(did I get that right?  never can remember if the request goes on the
front or the back :-)

-- 
 ,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,
 ,`,`John Navitsky`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`johnn@eskimo.com,`,`,`,
 ,`,`Exercise a right today,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,
 ,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103740
From: Sam Swett <ssbc+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO

Excerpts from rec.autos: 26-Apr-93 Re: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Tauru.. by Mark
W. Rice@mozart.Colu 
> In article <24326.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>
david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (Dav
> id Bonds)  writes:
> >
> >GK>Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse.  The shifter
> >GK>refuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to
> >GK>get it into gear.  I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple
> >GK>of months.
> >
> >Enter 1st, wait 2-3 seconds and then go into reverse.  They use the same
> >synchros, and you'll never (at least I haven't) ground-em-to-fit when using
> >this technique.
>  
> Or do like the manual says and put it in 3rd first, then you can quickly
> go into reverse... no waiting.

One more way, which works in manual trans cars I've driven, and it is my
personal favorite (the other suggestions above are great, but try this
one, too).  

While pushing the shifter *gently* towards reverse, let the clutch out
slowly (right to the friction point) and the shifter will be pulled into
position. If you do it right, the car won't jump backward, nor will the
gears grind.... You will just glide back.

-sam

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103741
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Viper Car Alarms

mcrosbie@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:

>In article <C605Fr.CDo@cs.uiuc.edu>, u1815@cs.uiuc.edu (Ronald E Garnett) writes:
>> Hello auto enthusiasts!
>> 

{Stuff Deleted}

>> Viper also sells some fancy field disturbance sensor that
>> supposedly detects people approcahing the car....
>> 

>This is primarily for convertibles.  I have a convertible and have looked at
>this feature in detail.  Alpine actually makes a better radar unit if you want
>to get one of these.  It has zones in it that can be shut down independently so
>that if one side of your car has pedestrian traffic or something else that
>would trigger an alarm, it shuts down the zone, or rather, pulls it in tighter.
>I don't see the real benefit to these unless you have a convertible that you
>leave the top down on.

>Avoid the voice alarm that can be added to the radar package.  It talks to
>people as they walk by.  I saw one installed on a Lotus Esprit.  The kids would
>taunt it seeing how close they could get before it 'warned' them to get back. 
>The owner finally disabled it, which defeats the purpose in my mind.

{Stuff Deleted}

>> Ron Garnett
>> 

{More Stuff Deleted}

>Merrill
	
	My neighbor runs a Viper(R) distributorship and installs them on all
Saturns sold in my area (Anne Arundel County, MD).  He has an SC with the
Viper voice alarm installed.  The alarm does everything, turn on the car, 
the radio, the heater, roll down windows, unlock the doors...  The alarm goes
off more frequently on hot days when a person walks by.  It gets sensitive up
to about 5 feet in 85degree heat.  It isn't as bad as convetional siren alarms,
because it doesn't continue to wail, it just says "Protected by Viper, please
stand back!"  And shuts up...  (mainly because the person walks away 
befuddled!!!")

			
-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103742
From: david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?

In article <1993Apr21.190251.14371@sequent.com> troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker) writes:
>
>Let me explain why I feel the "bogey" counter feature is a gimmick.
>Radar waves bounce off objects especially metal.  That is how radar
>speed measurement works.  A high frequency microwave (X band approx 10
>GHz and K is approx 24 GHz) is sent out and reflected back to the
>antenna off of an automobile or other objects.  If an object is moving
>a Doppler shift (about 34 Hz per MPH on X Band) occurs, is measured
>and converted to miles per hour.  These waves bounce all over the
>place and they can reflect many times and go in many directions.
>
>From what I understand the Valentine-1 can only tell if these
>microwaves are coming from the front, rear or both.  There are only
>two antennas.  If they are coming from both this in interpreted as a
>"side bogey".  Bogey counts are determined as sources by their
>relative strength to one another even if they are reflections of the
>same source.
>
I'm certainly no engineer and really have no scientific basis
on which to make this argument, but don't you answer your own
question?  Is the reflected signal "shifted" at all from the
act of being reflected?  If so, wouldn't it then be easy for
the detector to discriminate between reflections and direct
sources?

>Here is the problem.  Since the microwaves reflect, how does the unit
>tell if it is a "source" or a "reflection"?  Take a Valentine-1 and
>drive to the local grocery store that uses an X-Band radar door
>opener.  You can tell by the small black box above the door pointed
>down at about a 45 degree angle and your detector going off when it
>gets near.  The Valentine-1 will count 7 or 8 bogeys from all
>directions front, rear and sides (it doesn't say which side).  The
>count changes as cars drive by and reflections change.  Is there 7 or
>8 sources?  Not at the store I go to.  As I drive around with a
>standard detector I can only find one source and that is the door
>opener for the front door.
>
>Troy Wecker
>troy@sequent.com
>Sequent Computer Systems
>Beaverton, OR
-- 
David W. Hwang, M.D.                      [david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103743
From: david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?

In article <1993Apr22.204921.12644@convex.com> tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.190251.14371@sequent.com> troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker) writes:
>>
>
>Each Valentine 1 is hand tuned to maximum performance is all the radar bands
>of coverage, this of course, adds to the labor cost and in turn the cost of the
>unit.
>
>I live in the backyard of the folks who make the Stalker radar system. The
>Valentine 1 has saved me many, many, many times from the stealth revenue
>enhancement traps of the local area. I have had all the major brand detectors,
>and, IMHO, nothing else even comes close to the V1!
>
>I don't work for Valentine, I am just a satisfied user of their unit!
>
>If you really want the nitty gritty details on all this, call the nice folks
>at Valentine Research. They will be more than happy to explain their 
>perspective on radar detection and analysis methods. 
>The calls free 1-800-331-3030.
>
>AT
>
It seems that there are more and more "bands" available for
police radar each month.  I have recently purchased (within
the last 8 months) the BEL 966STW.  While it is not a perfect
detector by any means, it does do the job fairly well.  

Now, however, I pick up a car magazine at the airport and
read about this Super Ka Wideband which is a superset of
the Ka Wideband that this latest generation of detectors
was touted as covering.  

So now BEL has a NEW series of detectors out that cover all
the usual bands (X, K, Ka photo, Ka wideband) as well as the
new Super Ka wideband.  

Just as there comes a point of diminishing returns when chasing
increased PC computing power with faster and faster CPUs (for
the average home consumer, at least), it seems that there is
now the same concern with radar detectors.  Does it make sense
to upgrade just 8 months after purchasing my "new" detector?
Is Valentine upgrading their equipment?  If so, it might be 
worth it for me to upgrade to the Valentine.  I was in the 
market for a Valentine when I purchased the BEL but the
3-4 month waiting time was just too much for me since I had
inadequate protection with my Passport.  Life was much simpler
when there was just X and K band and Escort has the best
equipment on the market and there was no need to continuously
shop for a new detector.  I hope that the flood of new radar 
bands ceases with this new Super Wideband business.
>
>                                  \|/
>                                #######
>                              / ~     ~ \
>                              |[0]---[0] |
>   ===============================| |===================================
>  _|___                           |_|        		    	    ___|_
> (_____) Allen Tobias           Technical    email:                (_____)
> (_____) Convex Computer Corp.  Marketing    tobias@convex.com     (_____)
> (_____) 3000 Waterview Parkway                                    (_____)
> (___)   Richardson, TX 75083                                        (___)
>   =====================================================================
>   "No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care!"
>


-- 
David W. Hwang, M.D.                      [david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103744
From: homi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Sammy)
Subject: Car Tinting ?s

Hello again.

Anyone here done any tinting work.  What are the best brands out there?
How about applications...I heard there was a water based brand that s
you can move around, till it's just right, and you then let it dry like that.

Also I would consider having it professionally done, how much around
Wisconsin or Chcago area, that does a decent job, fairly cheap. (college kid)

Thanks for all the info...

Ps.  What is the maximum legal tint limit.

homi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103745
From: adam@microware.com (Adam Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Choice of gauges

In article <C5yBo4.E5I@vcd.hp.com> dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Gauge) writes:
>If you had free reign to design your own instrument cluster, which
>gauges would you choose to have beyond the basic set?

Oil Pressure, Oil Temperature
Coolant Temperature
Manifold Vacuum
Ammeter, Voltmeter

Fuel Pressure [maybe] (Problematic, since you either need an electronic
sensor/gauge pair or you have to mount the damn thing outside the car)

In addition, it'd be nice to have a big red idiot light 'Check Guages'
connected to Oil pressure, Oil Temp, Coolant Temp, Ammeter &
Voltmeter.  With heaps of guages, it's hard to look at them all all
the time.  In the case of oil pressure, for example, you want to know
right away if your oil pump goes bad, unlike coolant temperature, a
minute or two of 0 oil pressure would be A Very Bad Thing(tm).

Adam
-- 
Adam G.
adamg@microware.com, or ...!uunet!mcrware!adamg
The above is not to be construed in any way as the official or unofficial
statements of Microware, or any Microware employees.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103746
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together!

In article <C63xp2.KJB@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>In article <1r7f9qINNk24@phantom.gatech.edu> grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas) writes:
>>jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blade Runner") writes:
>>>sighting of such a fine beast.  But remember, the Mustang will
>>>forever be the true King of the Road.  

Especially the '68 Shelby-American GT-500KR (King of the Road, so named
to steal GM's planned Camaro King of the Road's thunder :-)

>>And maybe the Mustang
>>will be forever King of the Road, the GT-40 isn't road legal.
>
>I think the GT-40 actually _is_ street legal, although that particular
>question is moot (see the price figures below).

Some GT-40s are street legal, some aren't.

>>This car was right hand drive (weren't they all like that?). How much does
>>a GT-40 go for? How many were made?

I found my Shelby-American guide. There were a grand total 126 GT-40s
built:
		GT-40 Coupes		55
		GT-40 Road Cars		31
		GT-40 Mk II		13
		GT-40 Mk IIIs		 7
		GT-40 Roadsters		 5
		Mirages			 3
		GT-40 Mk IVs		12
		   	TOTAL:	       126
		Additional uncompleted Mk IIIs	6-12

Twelve of these cars were prototypes; 48 racing coupes; 31 road coupes;
eight Mk II coupes; 4 LHD Mk IIIs; and 3 RHD Mk IIIs. The other 
breakdowns follow the above list (eg, 12 were Mk IVs). The LHD/RHD
breakdown is only given on the Mk IIIs.

The prices (for those which can be bought) are around the $1 Million
mark, last I heard, with a projection of some $3.5 Million (or
thereabouts) in 2000. It was second only to some penny-ante Ferarri ;-).

Shelby won the FIA World Manufacturer's Cup with his Cobras in '65; that
was also the year that he retired them from the Shelby-American racing
team (in favor of the Ford GT program the next year). That victory
broke a 13(?) year Ferarri winning streak.

Well, there's lotsa info I could spout, but I'll refrain. Much of
this information comes from "Hot Rod" magazine's "Shelby American
Cobra/Mustang Guide," which has more info on the Shelby-American 
Fords than you could _ever_ want to know.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103747
From: zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski)
Subject: Re: Taurus/Sable rotor recall

Antonio L. Balsamo (Save the wails) (balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com) wrote:

: From: OPDBS@vm.cc.latech.edu
: Subject: Taurus/Sable rotor recall

:        My '92 Taurus GL with only 26k on the clock also has rotor warp.
:    Apparently they HAVEN'T fixed the problem yet.  But try convincing the Ford
:    service person to fix it for free...Right!!!

:    Tony


Gads, I have heard so many horror stories with Taurus and Sable cars!  I thought
these were premium American automobiles.  The way they sell, you'd think so.
Is Ford really no better than in the late '70s when it was turning out tin
cans like the Granada and the Fairmount?  Which would you get, a Taurus or 
a Camry or Accord?


John
zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu
zorro@astro.ocis.temple.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103748
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.

In article <1993Apr17.175451.30896@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (D
anny Phornprapha) writes:
>I have $30,000 as my budget.  I'm looking for a sports or GT car.
>
>What do you think would be the best buy?  (I'm looking for specific models)
>
>Thanks,
>Danny
>--
>
> I'd say an RX-7 would be RIGHT up there.  You could easily deal down to $30.
 It has some of the most impressive performance figures around, and automotive
 magazines eat it up.  One car to seriously consider in that price range.

                                                Rob Fusi
                                                rwf2@lehigh.edu

                                                
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103749
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: New Integra for '94?

In article <C63ypt.47D@tsegw.tse.com> pbhandar@tsegw.tse.com (Parminder Bhandari) writes:
>I've heard *unconfirmed* rumours that there is a new Integra being released
>for '94.

Well, you can just about set your watch by Honda releasing new models every
4 years and an upgrade half way through the cars life. The local acura
dealership tells me that the new Integra will be out very soon, i.e. May/June.

Its hard to find specific details as the Integra has been deleted from
most of the rest of the world - I have seen them in Canada and Australia
as well as the U.S. but it was discontinued after the first generation
in Europe. Normally you can see new Japanese models appear in Europe
or Japan first and extrapolate from there. C+D reported that the engine
would be a carryover I think.


Craig
>
>Does anybody have any info on this?
>
>The local sales people know as much as I can throw them.
>
>--Parms.
>
>(still no sig).



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103750
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <C5zzD8.1Kt@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
>Disclamer: this is not a flame.. if you anger easily please go on.
>>petebre@elof.iit.edu (BrentA. Peterson) writes:
>
>>The next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car.  It attracts
>>way more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage
>>is more embedded in the general public.  Don't lie to yourself and
>>believe Ford will forfeit that.
>
>FYI: they already did.

Oh, really. When?

>Too bad that the current Mustang can't even compete with the new
>Camaro without using an active imagination.

The '93 Mustang Cobra can. Check it out.

>Right now few cars can compare with the '93 Camaro, Think about it..
>20,000 for a car that will out perform all but a few exotics.
>If you are now swearing at me look at the stats...they don't lie.
> There are NO comparable cars in it's class, certinaly not for its price.

Ehhhh, maybe. The '93 Mustang Cobra does a good job for a lower price,
and it's just a taste of what's ahead in the 30th Anniversary of
the original Pony Car.

>>Unless the Ford gets the 32v, 300hp Romeo.  You don't seriously believe
>>that it was designed for the Mark VIII only, do you?
>>
>Hey, can you imagine the potential of a MODIFIED LT-1!!!!!!!
>Folks in a few years we will surpass the levels of performance 
>achieved in the late '60's, thats scary.

Just think! Corvettes are almost up to the performance levels
of a '65 Cobra! Wow! In a few years, they might be up to the
performance levels of a '66 Ford GT-40. Wow, man, just think
about it... ;-)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103751
From: amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL)
Subject: Re: BMW 528i

In article <1993Apr25.180954.20425@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
 writes:
>I looked at that Bimmer yesterday. It's an '81, has about 90kmi, according
>to owner (odometer stopped working at 68Kmi). Drivess well, sounds good,
>body is OK, he wants $3000.
>i liked the car, despite it's auto tranny, but my wife will be a primary
>driver on this one, and she wants auto.
>The radio does not work untill the car warms up and you honk the horn (!)
>The A/C seems to have a leak.
>The sunroof is sticky, but operational.
>Odometer does not work, as mentioned before.
>Idle is a bit bouncy, going from 900rpm to 1200rpm.
>Wipers are slow.
>That's teh gripes. The owner says that he changed radiator, alternator,
>rotors and calipers, exhaust.
>The biggest problem, is that the owner is a shifty SOB, telling strange
>stories. I hate that. I would never buy from a persom like that, except, how
>often you see a descent 528i for that amount of money. He also said that,
>although I could bring a mechanicin, he wouldn't let me check the car by taking

>it to a garage. Suspicious. And who knows what milage is on it.
>So, let me know what to check for, given there's practically no rust.
>I know there was an article on 528i in R&D a few years back, anybody remembers
>what issue?
>Mike.S
>
DON'T BUY IT!  All of the things you mentioned will just give you headaches
later on.  ALso it sounds like the car needs a lot of work and as you probably
know BMW's are not cheap to fix either.  The owner sounds like a shady
character just trying to take advantage of someone. Sure $ 3000 sounds good
but you should calculate how much the repairs will be. It sounds like you
would have to sink in at least $ 1000 to get everything fixed if not more.
Also never trust anyone as far as mileage is concerned. Who knows how many
miles are on it and how it was driven.  Sure people tell you BMW's hold up but
you have to consider any car is subject to wear and tear. For all you know it
could have 200,000 miles on it.  The thing you have to remember is that this
isn't the last 528i around either. Just wait and keep shopping. For around $
5000-6000 you can probably find one that is better, needs less repair, and has
legitimate mileage unlike the one you are considering. Take it from a guy who
has been taken a couple of times. Good luck.
Al Himsl

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103752
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <oTNm3B1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore) writes:
>
>I can put a 32valve V-8 with twin Garret-4s on Yugo and get 7.7sec QM.
>Thats useless ... Its still a Yugo that will loose any race on a track,
>or on the street.

A Yugo that will go 1/4mi in 7.7 seconds will _not_ lose on the
street. That's just too damn quick. It might be wrapped around
a telephone pole at the end of that quarter mile, but it will
be there alone...

>Have you Detroit beings compared the ultra-long-throw stick shifts of
>the 5.0 with the 93 MR2 turbo or 93 RX7 (I ll buy it in 6 mos) ?

Or you could replace the stock shifter with a Hurst short-throw
shifter (available from Ford Motorsport), or any number of other
after-market products to boost the performance of a Mustang or
Camaro. Can you do _that_ with a '93 RX-7, or, verily, with _any_
MR-2? With the Detroit aftermarket, you can build a Mustang or
Camaro which is superior to either car you mention for less than
the sticker price of either.

>Or the Torsen differential of the RX7 compared to the Differential of 
>the 5.0 that sounds in every hairpin turn ?

Well, gee. It works, and it doesn't break. It transmits power to
the drive wheels, and it's essentially zero maintenance--and there's
an aftermarket in parts for Ford and Chevy rear-ends, too.

>And bythe way 5.0 and Camaro both have drums on the rear breaks ...
>Hello , this is the 90 's ?

Well, the '93 Mustang Cobra (which, from all reports, uses the
same running gear as '94 Mustang) has 4-wheel disks. I can't
speak for the new Camaro, but I think it does, too.

Also, stop and think about the markets here. The Mustang is, and
always has been, a mass-market sporty car (that's where the
"pony car" class came from) with a performance model. That's
why it has the econo-box running gear. That was also factored
into the design of the Mustang from the day Lee Iacocca conceived
his baby; it was designed as a wide-market car--sporty, yet 
accessible--with room for performance tweaking.

The cars you listed are designed for a specific market niche,
and they both fit those niches very well. The Mustang, at least,
does well in multiple markets; I can't speak for the Camaro.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103753
From: asdch@acad2.alaska.edu
Subject: Re: Last of the V-8 Interceptors (Mad Max)

	Tony,  I believe, first of all, that Max's car is an Austrailian
built car.  I don't think its a chopped up U.S. unit.  It may be called a
Kangaroo or Roo or something similar-not sure.  But, I do recall reading
that Austrailian cars used Ford V-8 engines.  The Ford V-8 Interceptor
is, I think, a 428 c.i. cop car motor.  Whatever the case that small car
with a screaming big block Ford 428 would probably smoke the tires for
miles/kilometers.  I hope someone out there can elaborate on the subject.
		
			Smoke 'em hard, smoke 'em fast.  Later,
					David Hertrich.
				'68 Lincoln Continental 460c.i.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103754
From: jdrout@scott.skidmore.edu (JTD is lost)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?


Deloreans NEVER had a factory V8.  They were considering production
with a turbo (or twin turbo, I forget) version of the standard V6.  As
to who produced it, you got me!

Jonathan

jdrout@scott.skidmore.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103755
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <C64Mux.Bpr@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>In article <C5zzD8.1Kt@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
>>Disclamer: this is not a flame.. if you anger easily please go on.
>>>petebre@elof.iit.edu (BrentA. Peterson) writes:
>>
>>>The next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car.  It attracts
>>>way more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage
>>>is more embedded in the general public.  Don't lie to yourself and
>>>believe Ford will forfeit that.
>>
>>FYI: they already did.
>
>Oh, really. When?
>
>>Too bad that the current Mustang can't even compete with the new
>>Camaro without using an active imagination.
>
>The '93 Mustang Cobra can. Check it out.

So you think a 93 Mustang Cobra can match the performance of a new Z28??
Interesting belief! 

Craig

(who neither owns, nor wants to own any GM or Ford product)

Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103756
From: cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan)
Subject: Re: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.


In a previous article, ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) says:

>I have $30,000 as my budget.  I'm looking for a sports or GT car.
>
>What do you think would be the best buy?  (I'm looking for specific models)
>
>Thanks,
>Danny
>-- 
>
>===============================================================================
>=    "Hey! You programmers out there!     |    Danny Phornprapha              =
>=     Please consider this:               |    ip02@lehigh.edu                =
>=                                         |                                   =
>=     Bugs are another endangered earth   |    LUCC Student Konsultant        =
>=     Species needing your protection.    |    Work: (215) 758-4141           =
>

For an all out sports car, I'd go for the RX-7 without the sports
suspension (which is too stiff.)  For a little more practicality and more
comfort, the Nissan 300ZX Turbo is a good buy.  And for a good dose of
luxury, the Lexus SC300 is perfect (with a manual transmission of course.) 
However, the Toyota Supra is coming out soon and if you like it's looks,
the performance is supposed to be great, almost race car like.  I don't
particulary like the Mitsubishi 3000GT's or the Dodge Stealths as they are
too heavy and aren't very nimble handlers for a sports car.
-- 
A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

"The mind is the forerunner of all states."

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103757
From: brother@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Jesse McCabe)
Subject: There's rust on my Beamer! Help!

Actually I wasn't too surprised, since I bought it with the rust.  Any of you 
got some ideas of getting rid of this CHEAPLY (key word)??  It has eaten all 
the
way through on the door panels.  Can I use Bondo?  
 
Also, is there a good paint that will bond to Aluminum rims?  The paint thati
was on my rims has peeled off, actually, there's some rust looking 'stuff' on
the rims themselves...  but it comes off pretty easily.  
 
One more thing...
Have any of you done self-painting to a car?  How do you start?  What do I need
to do this?
 
Please help me!
Jesse


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103758
From: mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee)
Subject: Re: Chryslers Compact LH Sedans?

cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (CarolinaFan@uiuc) writes:

>shoppa@almach.caltech.edu (TIM SHOPPA) writes:

>>I thought that the V-10 was originally designed for a truck (not necessarily
>>a pickup!) and then just sort of dropped into the Viper's frame because
>>it fit and was available.  A friend of mine and I saw (and heard) a Viper,
>>and my friend's first response was that it sounded like a truck!  It sounded
>>fine to me, but then again, I don't like the whiny noise that most modern
>>sports car engines make.  BTW, the Viper we saw was moving at about 10mph,
>>just like all of the other cars on the 10 freeway heading east out of LA
>>on a Friday afternoon.  Looked really nice, though.

>	Actually, I was under the impression that the V-10 in the Viper was
>NOT the V-10 that Dodge was developing for its new Kenworths.  I have always
>thought it was the exhaust system and not the engine that produced the noise
>of a car...?

Well, yes, the exhaust is where the majority of the noise comes out, but the
basics (tone, firing cadence, etc.) are determined by the engine configuration.
In the case of the Viper, yes, we are discussing a HUGE multicylinder 90-deg.
engine, which will sound somewhat like a truck.  And my understanding, btw, is
that that V-10 engine was designed originally with the intention of being ad-
aptible for either the trucks or the Viper.  And from what I've heard (no first
hand knowledge :-( ) it's doing a pretty good job at both.

And the best exhaust sound in the world is now and will always be a 60-degree
DOHC Colombo-designed V-12.  Period.

Michael T. Chaffee
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu	<----Email
mchaffee@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu	<----NeXTMail
.sig under construction.	<----Excuse

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103760
From: SKUKRETI@CHEMICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Sanjai Kukreti)
Subject: Advice on used car?

Hi, I was looking for some helpful advice.
I'm a university student with about $7000 to spend, and I'm looking for a 
used car. Does anyone have any useful advice they could offer to a first-
time buyer? I'm not looking for anything sporty, just something functional 
and reliable (less maintenance costs). Anybody have any ideas on what models 
might suit me?

Thanks

Sanjai


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103761
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

In article <2BD0BDC3.25868@news.service.uci.edu> raman@translab.its.uci.edu (Balaji V. Ramanathan) writes:
>	The part about spending $5000-7000 on repairs reminds me
>of an article I read in a magazine comparing the 5 year ownership costs
>of a Toyota Camry and a Ford Taurus or something like that.  The result,
>which they announced with great flourish was that it cost the same at the
>end of the period.  That was their argument to prove that you don't go
>wrong buying the Ford Taurus over the Camry.
>
>	Now, if I remember correctly, the Camry costs about $4000 or so more
>in initial costs.  Essentially, it means that you spend about $4000 extra
>on repairs on the Taurus.  That is ridiculous.  Every time your car
>needs repairs, it is extra hassles, loss of time and a dozen other things.
>I would much rather spend $5000 more in initial costs than spend $4000 more
>in repair costs.

did you account for depreciation?  i seriously doubt that a taurus
would rack up an extra $4000 in repair costs over 5 years.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103762
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible


In a previous article, nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) says:

>
>HELP!!!
>my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
>We live in South Fla., so we are definitely in the right are for one.
>My wife has mentioned the Miata, but I think it is too small.
>I would like to wait for the new Mustangs ( Dec. '93 I think).
>Anyone have any opinions on any/all convertibles in a reasonable price range.
>
>                                           Thanx
>

Geo Metro LSi
:-)
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103763
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: Too fast


In a previous article, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) says:

>In article <1qn4ev$3g2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>>
>>In a previous article, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) says:
>>
>>>In article <1qkon8$3re@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>>>larger engine.  That's what the SHO is -- a slightly modified family
>>>>sedan with a powerful engine.  They didn't even bother improving the
>>>>*brakes.*
>>>
>>>	That shows how much you know about anything.  The brakes on the
>>>SHO are very different - 9 inch (or 9.5? I forget) discs all around,
>>>vented in front.  The normal Taurus setup is (smaller) discs front, 
>>>drums rear.
>>
>>one i saw had vented rears too...it was on a lot.
>>of course, the sales man was a fool..."titanium wheels"..yeah, right..
>>then later told me they were "magnesium"..more believable, but still
>>crap, since Al is so m uch cheaper, and just as good....
>>
>>i tend to agree, tho that this still doesn't take the SHO up to "standard"
>>for running 130 on a regular basis.  The brakes should be bigger, like
>>11" or so...take a look at the  ones on the Corrados.(where they have
>>braking regulations).
>
>Well, let's see...my T-Bird SC has a computer-controlled adjustable
>suspension, 4-wheel ABS disks (11" vented front, 10" (?) rear), 3-point
>belts, sturdy passenger compartment, aerodynamics good enough for 
>NASCAR without too much change, 210 hp/310 ft-lb supercharged 3.8l V6,
>4-wheel independent suspension (plus limited-slip differential), with 
>a top speed in excess of 130mph, and rides on V-rated tires (I have yet
>to find 225/60-R16s in any other speed rating). 
>
>Is that "up to standard"? If not, why not?
>
>				James

james, i really hate to do this, but try reading the damn posts!
never was a t'bird mentioned.  The discussion was about SHO's and
'stangs not being up to spec.  I do not know about t'birds.  I
only know that the specs quoted for the SHO by previous poster sounded
a little anemic for me to say that it was up to snuff.  This does not
in any way  disencourage* me from wishing to own one, nor does it make it
a bad car.  It merely means that i think Ford could have added that extra
bit of safety  and tossed in larger brakes, as the wheels are plenty large
enough for them to fit (if memory serves right, which it may very well not)
and the motor plenty powerful enough to need it.


c ya
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103764
From: mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes:

>callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>: >> 
>: >I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if 
>: >you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your
>: >alarm?  I can think of worse things in the world.  Glad you got out of there
>: >before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.
>: 
>I think people have a right to kill to defend their property. Why not? Be
>honest: do you really care more about scum than about your  car?

I can't tell if Matt is being sarcastic here or not, but to be honest, many
automobiles are worth far more to their owners (in $$ value and $$ investment)
than the people that would take them.  I don't have figures on average property
tax in the U.S. or how much of it is allocated for housing projects, inferior
public schools, jails, or the like, but I have a feeling that the amount the
government steals from an honest, productive citizen to breed this trash is 
significantly less than the value of many automobiles.  And for those who will
argue that the animals out there stealing cars and everything else (not to
mention committing COMPLETELY senseless acts of violence, such as rape) cannot
be valued in terms of money because they are human beings, I submit that they
are not human beings.  Jim Callison, I think, is on the right track.  And 
Chintan Amin remarked earlier that we cannot blame environment for the actions
of a single criminal.  I couldn't agree more.  One could trace any crime back
to the environment/upbringing of the criminal; should we let all of them out,
from pickpockets to rapists to inside traders, because what they did wasn't
their fault?  Where does one draw the line?

$0.02

Michael T. Chaffee
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu	<----Email
mchaffee@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu	<----NeXTMail
.sig under construction.	<----Excuse

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103765
From: mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee)
Subject: Re: VIPER

rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen) writes:


>Last night I had a dream that my dad bought a Viper.
>I took it out for a test drive, without his knowledge,
>and had to push it all the way home just to avoid a ticket.
>Wierd dream, I wonder what it means....

Vell...Let's see...vas you muzzah in der passenger seat?  Or vas you muzzah in
der leefing room, vit you fazah?

M.
(Feeling a tad bit Freudian, doubtless inspired by the magnificent phallic-ness
(some word) of the Viper)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103766
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr17.051701.3419@nuscc.nus.sg> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes:
>callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>: >> 
>: >I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if 
>: >you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your
>: >alarm?  I can think of worse things in the world.  Glad you got out of there
>: >before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.
>: 
>I think people have a right to kill to defend their property. Why not? Be
>honest: do you really care more about scum than about your  car?

Yo! Watch the attributions--I didn't say that!

Again, this isn't an appropriate forum for discussions on whether you
should shoot someone for property damage/vandalism/theft, but every
responsible gun owner realizes that there are limits, and the punishment
must fit the crime. I mean, think about it--is a (really) harmless
prank worth killing over?

As I said, the situation described (punks setting off alarms and
taunting people to come out) could turn very ugly very quickly, and
it is worth being prepared when your life is potentially on the line.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103767
From: mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:

>In article <C5LIw2.CAx@news.rich.bnr.ca> Peon w/o Email (Eric Youngblood) writes:
>>In article <1qn2lo$c9s@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) writes:
>>The big disadvantage of automatics is the ~10% HP they consume that never
>>gets to the wheels.  In this respect they are at a disadvantage to a manual.

>only when the torque converter is not locked up.  there are autos out there
>with converter lock up in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears.

W/r/t performance, converter lockup is purely irrelevant.  The lockup only
occurs at light throttle settings and serves only to improve MPG.  Mind you,
a converter clutch does a lovely job of improving MPG, but the additional
mechanical advantage of the converter gives you more acceleration (vs. locked
converter clutch) than its inherent losses take away.


Michael T. Chaffee
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu	<----Email
mchaffee@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu	<----NeXTMail
.sig under construction.	<----Excuse

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103768
From: gyu@bbn.com (George Yu)
Subject: Re: The Kuebelwagen??!!

thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:

>	Sorry for the mis-spelling, but I forgot how to spell it after 
>my series of exams and NO-on hand reference here.

>	Is it still possible to get those cute WWII VW Jeep-wanna-be's?
>A replica would be great I think.  

>							-TKH '93

According to _The Complete Guide To Specialty Cars_, 7th Edition, from
Crown Publishing, it's the VW Kubelwagen (w/ 2 dots over the 'u').
The company is:

   Wolfkam
   P.O. Box 1608, Vika
   0119 Oslo 1, Norway

   011-47-30-26601 voice line
   011-47-2-166138 FAX line


An excerpt from the blurb:

   ...This fine Kubel clone from Wolfkam is a very close copy of
   the original, and offers the same all-weather and cross-country
   capabilities as its WWII forebears.  The robust fiberglass body
   kit is very complete, and includes all the hardware you will
   need, except for your own VW donor car.  The phone number [...]
   is the entire AT&T dialing sequence; call and ask for Karl
   Torum, or send $5 cash or _International Money Order_
   for a complete literature package.


George.

P.S., I'd be happy to share what info I have on other kit cars and
      kit car manufacturers.

P.P.S., I'm looking for a used or partially completed Porsche 356
        Speedster Convertible D replica from Intermeccanica.  I'd
        appreciate any leads or advice/stories from any owners
        out there.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103769
From: n8846069@henson.cc.wwu.edu (BarryB)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

daubendr@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Darren R Daubenspeck) writes:

>> they are pretty much junk, stay away from them.  they will be replaced next
>> year with all new models.  

>Junk?They've made the C&D lists for years due to their excellent handling and 
>acceleration.They have been around since about, oh, 85 or 86, so they're not  
>the newest on the lot, and mileage is about five to eight MPG under the class
>leader. You can get into a 3.0 L v-6 (141 hp) Shadow for $10~11K (the I-4  
>turbo a bit more), and a droptop for $14~15K.  

How can car be any good that has

          S     N     A    C
             U     D     N    E

written on the back with crooked letters as if a 2-year-old had
written it?  Hehhehehehahaha!

(About as silly as Crysler's attemps to make the label on the back
of some of their other cars appear like they are Mercedes.)

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

-BarryB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103770
From: klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr24.150653.8115@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
| cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
| >aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
| 
| >>i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
| >>(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)
| 
| >    Then what is a "Flat-" engine???
| 
| flat = 180 deg V = horizonatlly opposed
| 
| Usually, it also equals "boxer," however, I think the term is
| traditionally reserved for 8's and 12's (and firing order matters).
| This was talked about here in r.a many months back; I can't remember
| the consensus.
| 
| Examples:
| 
| Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer.
| Porsche's 911 is a flat 6.
| Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4.
| 
| Regards,
| 

Not to inject a non-automotive note to this thread, but the BMW opposed
twin used in motorcycles for a *long* time is and always has been known as
a "boxer".  
--
Ken Franklin 	They say there's a heaven for people who wait
AMA     	And some say it's better but I say it ain't
GWRRA           I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
DoD #0126       The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103771
From: crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Christian Huebner)
Subject: Re: Last of the V-8 Interceptors (Mad Max)

asdch@acad2.alaska.edu writes:

>	Tony,  I believe, first of all, that Max's car is an Austrailian
>built car.  I don't think its a chopped up U.S. unit. 

The last V8 in Mad Max is based on a Holden (Australia). Holden is
linked with GM (Vauxhall GB) and so they're quite unlikely to use 
Ford parts.

Chris  crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103772
From: klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <Apr24.180313.21646@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
| In article <1993Apr24.150653.8115@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
| >Examples:
| >
| >Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer.
| >Porsche's 911 is a flat 6.
| >Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4.
| 
| i think you got it the other way round: the Ferrari flat 12 is a 180
| degree v12 and not a "true" boxer, while the subaru and porsche are
| true boxers.  don't know about the vw bug though, but i suspect that
| it is also a true boxer.
| 
| eliot

Are you serious?  The auto that had a lot to do with bringing the term
"boxer" to the popular forefront was the Ferrari 512 Berlinetta Boxer
or the 512BB. Had a 5 liter, opposed 12 cylinder engine.

--
Ken Franklin 	They say there's a heaven for people who wait
AMA     	And some say it's better but I say it ain't
GWRRA           I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
DoD #0126       The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103773
From: <MCARRON@ESOC.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Nissan Nomenclature (was Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted)

The European version is called 200 SX and have a 1.8 liter engine with
turbo and have more power than the US version ( 169 HP ); it goes from
0 to 100 Km/h in 7.5 sec and have a top speed of 225 Km/h ( 140 miles/h ).
I just purchased one ( new ) and I am looking for a repair book. I could
not find one in FRANCE and GERMANY; does anybody knows where to find one ?
Is there one in the UK ?
Probabaly no use to look in the US as the 240 SX have here a different motor.
I am very pleased with the car and have no problem with it; but like to have
good technical documentation about the car I own.

                               Regards

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103774
From: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Geof Evans)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>have v engines.
>V4 - I don't know of any.
>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>V8 - Don't know of any.
>V12 - Jaguar XJS
> Please add to the list.
> Thanks,
> -S
> ssave@ole.cdac.com
*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
                     Is this a joke ?
                                      *>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

-- 
  ___________________________________________________________________  
|| Geof Evans                 | DOMAIN: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au  ||
||   If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk.      ||
  -------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103775
From: pfk1@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Philip F Kromer IV)
Subject: Does a car wash hurt the cars finish?

Can taking the car to a car wash hurt the car's finish?

And if so, is it better to hand wash it about once a month, or just take it 
to the car wash anyway?

Are detailing places worth the money?  if i do a good, careful job on washing
and waxing, is a detail place going to be worth it?

reply to my email address: pfk1@crux1.cit.cornell.edu

pk4

My views reflect Cornell's.  Sue them dry.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103776
Subject: Tires comparison
From: vpopesc@opus.uucp (Valentin Popescu)


Eve'.

I am looking to buy 4 new p195-50r15 tires.. (R or HR). I don't
have much to spend, but I would like a tire that will LAST. Does
anyone have any experience with the following brands?

	Riken
	Falken	
	BFG	
	General	

There are others, but these I can find here for under $70.. Like
I said, I am mostly interested in threadwear then speed, since I
hardly get to drive them over 80 or 90 mph. Also, is it true that
"noone will give you warranty on such tires", according to
a tire dealer?

Finally, do HR tires last longer than R tires (threadwear again),
or is that strictly a speed factor?

Thanks for any replies..

-- 
            |         "Whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger."
_________  -+-__      _________     
\_____  /   |/_ \     \  _____/           Internet: vpopesc@calstatela.edu
 \_____ \_____/  \____/  ____/            Bitnet:   vpopesc@csla.BITNET

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103777
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti

In article <issa.735601408@cwis> issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin) writes:
>Don't the numbers in the car names above refair to the engine size in 
>liters? i.e. ls400 = 4.0litre engine, sc300 = 3.0 liter "Sport Coupe".. 
>and Q45 = 4.5liter.. (similar, kinda, to BMW and MB nameing deal). 
>
>issa

Funny, I thought the numbering scheme for both Lexus and Infiniti was
related to sticker price more than anything else, i.e. Infiniti G20 (around
20K), Q45 (around 45K), Lexus ES250 (RIP) (around 25K), Lexus ES300 (around
30K), etc.

Is there a conspiracy theory there? 

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103778
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: V4 engines


In article <1993Apr26.234514.8418@kronos.arc.nasa.gov>, chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr23.183318.4635@ll.mit.edu> singer@ll.mit.edu (Matthew R. Singer) writes:
|> >Didn't the Saab Sonnett have a V4? I recall someone telling that it was
|> >something like 1/2 of a Ford 289.
|> 
|> Not only the Sonett (correct spelling), but the 95 wagon and 96 sedan
|> used a 1500 cc or 1700 cc V-4 from Ford of Germany.  This particular
|> motor had a 60 degree vee angle, a balance shaft and siamesed exhaust
|> ports.  This motor was later stretched into the V-6 commonly seen in the
|> Capri.

I think it was the reverse, the V4 being 2/3 of the V6.

|> The V-4 could make pretty reasonable power for its size.  But in the
|> Saab, it made too much torque for the transmission, which had been
|> designed for a 3-cylinder 2-stroke.

It was also the worst engine that Ford (Europe) have ever made - bloody
awful reputation. It's most successful application being the Transit
van.

Saab gave up with this motor and then made the Triumph 1854 (half a Stag V8) under license (I believe), but with 2-litre capacity and perhaps a different
arrangement for the cylinder head studs, before developing their own straight 
four from the Triumph.

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103779
From: jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: IMPALA SS GOING INTO

I still can't understand all the hype about the Impalla SS, it STILL has
the ugly Caprice body (Orca on wheels).  The Caprice was the worst new
body style to come out of Detroit EVER! Now just because the LT1 engine
and a few suspension tweeks are being added.

Its STILL UGLY, its STILL a BARGE.  GM's answer to everything is "throw in
a V8 and someone will buy it."  Or "add some plastic ground affects
and a few stickers and call it a GT, GTZ or SS, and someone will buy it."

IMHO GM needs to scrap the Caprice body COMPLETELY and start over with a
BLANK sheet of paper.  No minor modification (wheel well treatments, tail
amp modification, or nose re-design or even the LT1 engine) will help
the existing Caprice.

Jeff

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103780
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?


re: extended Ka bands.

I recently bought a 2 band detector.  You guys must all think I'm
nuts, right?  Well, I did a little research into Ka usage in this
area and found out that Ka is not currently being used in this state
as well as surrounding states.  Here's how I found out:

- A cop friend who did spend time nailing speeders doesn't even know 
  what Ka is.  He's heard of K, which is what they use here and I
  explained that Ka is used for photo radar etc.. He then said, yeah,
  "Ka stands for K automatic"... duuhh.  He then went on to say that
  plans were being made for getting laser guns as far as going high
  tech were concerned, but he didn't know too much.

- My 8 year old 2 band whistler was consistently going off at speed traps,
  even the real sneaky ones.

- When I called the Escort Shop, they confirmed that Ka is not used here
  or in surrounding states.  They did claim that Laser was being used
  a lot here, which I was quite skeptical of.

So in the end, instead of spending a lot of money and/or waiting
months for a state of the art detector, I got a low priced, high
performance 2 band Escort 2200.  Incidentally its performance is equal
to their top of the line model in X and K band detection.  I know that
Escort has been surpassed by other brands lately, but I've never fully
relied on a detector and I was convinced that the Escorts would be at
least quite good, which was good enough for me and my wallet.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103781
From: johnson@spectra.com (boyd johnson)
Subject: Re: Automotive crash test, performance and maintenance stats?

<<I wrote>
<Is there a resource available to the consumer comparing all of the makes
<and models of automobiles, trucks, vans, etc. for survivability in a
<crash of different severities?
<...
<Also, I've found very little objective data comparing different
<vehicles for handling, pick-up, braking, expected maintenance, etc.
<I recall years ago Consumer Reports annual buyer's guide was much more
<informative in those aspects than it is now.

Thanks to a reply from someone I looked a little further and found what
I was looking for.  The April CR magazine has most of the above things.
Despite recent articles here the ratings looked pretty good for
relative comparison purposes.  Unfortunately the crash test comparisons
didn't include half of the cars I'm comparing.
Anybody know how '93 Honda Civic hatchbacks and Toyota Tercels fare in
an accident?


-- 
====== Boyd Johnson   nosc!spectra.com!johnson  San Diego, California ======
	Intermittent newsfeed at best and only to selected groups.
	My opinions certainly don't match those of my employer.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103801
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <1993Apr27.021456.7594@slcs.slb.com>  
dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
> In article <1993Apr16.162950.25849@newsgate.sps.mot.com>  
rapw20@email.sps.mot.com writes:
> >
> >before you go in. Find out the invoice prices of the car, add a  
reasonable  
> >profit for the dealer ($200-$300??), offer them that price and stick to  
> >it.
> 
> Whoa!  Watch your terminology.  "Dealer invoice" is *not* "dealer cost".
> ...

That's probably true but it's the closest to it that you're going to get.  
The actual dealer cost depends on a lot of things and even the dealer  
probably doesn't know exactly what it will be until all the factory   
kick-backs, incentives, etc. are paid and that often depends on his volume  
at the end of the month/quarter/whatever. It might be a funny munber but  
it's all you have to start with, except the sticker, and anyone who pays  
sticker price is really being ripped off.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103802
From: mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

We have seen lots of discussion on automobile engine configuration. Let me ask 
a similar question from the aviation field. You must have seen images of prop 
planes with all cylinders exposed. I have seen up to 8 cylinders positioned 
radially in a circular fashion with the prop at the center of the circle. 
This arrangement always brings up a geometric dilemma. How can one crankshaft 
throw accomodate 8 rods or are the pistons displaced but not visible from the 
outside.

Bijan

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103803
From: sontakke@helix.enet.dec.com (Vikas Sontakke)
Subject: Re: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO


In article <kfr=ewC00WA1Q6wtt7@andrew.cmu.edu>, Sam Swett <ssbc+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes...
> 
>One more way, which works in manual trans cars I've driven, and it is my
>personal favorite (the other suggestions above are great, but try this
>one, too).  
> 
>While pushing the shifter *gently* towards reverse, let the clutch out
>slowly (right to the friction point) and the shifter will be pulled into
>position. If you do it right, the car won't jump backward, nor will the
>gears grind.... You will just glide back.
> 
>-sam

I can vouch for this method in my 1990 SHO.  This is the only sure way of 
putting in the reverse without any problem _every_ time.

Vikas Sontakke		Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard MA.
Internet:		sontakke@helix.enet.dec.com
    uucp:		{decvax,ucbvax,allegra}!decwrl!helix.enet!sontakke
			sontakke%helix.enet@decwrl.dec.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103804
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: Re: ***** LICENSE PLATES *****

In article anl@ollie.solbourne.com, guerra@solbourne.com (Edi Guerra) writes:
>I would like to know if anyone still has a copy of the list of License Plates
>that were posted some time ago regarding special names and sayings.
>
>THXS,
>EDIG
>
>

Me too!

Markus



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103805
From: strait@cheetah.csl.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey C. Strait)
Subject: BMW parts

Greetings automobile enthusiasts.  Can anyone tell me if there is
a mail order company that sells BMW parts discounted... cheaper than
the dealerships.

Sorry if it's a FAQ. email replies very much appreciated.

Thanks,
-- 
| Jeff Strait                       | strait@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu        |
| University of Illinois            | PHONE: (217) 333-6444            |
| "If you ladies leave this island, if you survive basic recruit       |
| training, you will be a weapon, a minister of death praying for war" |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103806
From: cheekeen@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Desmond Chan)
Subject: Re: Honda clutch chatter

     I also experience this kinda problem in my 89 BMW 318. During cold
start ups, the clutch seems to be sticky and everytime i drive out, for
about 5km, the clutch seems to stick onto somewhere that if i depress
the clutch, the whole chassis moves along. But after preheating, it
becomes smooth again. I think that your suggestion of being some
humudity is right but there should be some remedy. I also found out that
my clutch is already thin but still alright for a couple grand more!


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103807
From: chris@camp.wpic.pitt.edu (CHRIS EMERSON)
Subject: ----->Those nasty insurance people ---------------------

Hello everyone,
   I have an insurance question.

Allstate insurance

SITUATION: Person wrecks car. Car is drivable to dealer. Person 
reports accident (no other cars involved). Driver estimates damage cost 
exceedes cost of car. Insurance people claim car is "totalled" because of 
exceeding repair costs.
Person says "WWHHHAATTTT!!!! But I drove the car here!" and takes it to 
another place. Other place estimates 2,101.00 in damage. 2,000 less than the 
dealer.
One more hitch... The car is registered in Florida but the accident occurred 
in Pennsyvania.

QUESTION: Should the insurance recognize and pay for the damages of this, 
now fixable, car even though they prematurly declared totalled?

Please respond via E-Mail if you think you know anything about this sort of 
thing. 

chris@camp.wpic.pitt.edu

Thanks...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103808
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe, Import Car of the Year

In <1ri9rv$jfl@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> newman@cps.msu.edu (Timothy S Newman) writes:


>Okay, okay, I know the Ford Probe is made in the US, in fact it's
>made in Michigan, at a Mazda plant.  My question: are most of the parts
>from American or Japanese sources?  I have been told that most of the US
>assembly plants for Japanese automakers import almost all of the parts used in
>the vehicles.

>Any information anyone has on this will be appreciated!

Ford aimed for 75% US content when they designed the new Probe. In actual
practice it came out to 77% US content. If my '89 is any example the 23%
that is imported may be the engine and brakes, at least the '89 had
Missybitchy brakes.

>Tim Newman
>newman@cps.msu.edu

Bob



Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103809
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Saturn Extended Warranty

In article <C63rrw.1G9w@austin.ibm.com> $LOGIN@austin.ibm.com writes:
>
>I've owned a Saturn for and year and a half, and didn't have the extended
>warranty, but just traded it in for a 1993 (for reasons that I won't mention
>unless someone wants to know.)  I opted for the 5 year/60,000 mile extended with
>$50 deductible.  It's sorta like buying health insurance.  You could say that
>you're not sick now, and haven't been sick for a while, but you can't guarantee
>that you won't be sick tomorrow.  A little money invested today is better than
>being sick tomorrow and now being able to pay for it, or having to pay a lot
>more tomorrow than you can today.

justify all you want.  extended warranties are a ripoff, high profit item for
the dealer.  and you didn't buy 5yr/60k, you get 3yr/36k *free*, so what you
bought is 2yr/24k.  and you still have to pay $50 every time you use this 
great 'warranty'.  better to put your money in the bank and use it for repairs
if/when you need it.  considering that your last car was only 1.5 years old,
are you sure you will even keep this new one past it's *free* warranty period?
btw, typical profit on extended warranties is around 80%.  that's right, only
20% of the money needs to go into the collective pot to pay for any future
repairs that the group of extended-warranty-people collect.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103810
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

>
>And bythe way 5.0 and Camaro both have drums on the rear breaks ...
>Hello , this is the 90 's ?
>
>Vlasis Theodore

good point.  you would think by now that most car companies would just make
4 wheel disc standard and be done with it.  can it really cost that much more
for disc?  especially when you think of the economies of scale they would gain
by just making them all 4 wheel disc.  no seperate parts numbers and orders 
etc.  btw, the z28 and trans am and formula have 4wheel disc, but the bottom
line models have the rear drums.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103811
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important? 

>Safety is an important criterium for me when buying a car. I won't buy a 
>small car like a Civic or whatever.
>
>Great = Safety + Handling + Speed  -  for me

 EvenGreater = Safety + Handling + Speed + $$$$$  :for the RICH!!!
	ie: Merc 600SEL!!!




Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103812
From: <CGS103@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Changing oil by yourself "IDIOTS"

In article <1993Apr26.143540.29917@cs.tulane.edu>, mark@luke.cray.com (Mark
Dean) says:
>
>Quit whining on the net about changing your oil yourselves!!!!!!
>If you can't handle such a simple procedure as changing your
>oil then get somebody else to do it and get the hell off the
>network!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>                           MD
>
>
Cool off!  These people have as much right to be here as you do.
(BTW, is this the kind of friendly, helpful service we should
expect from Cray?)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103813
From: nancy@hayduke (Nancy Feagans)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <bense.33.735855979@oasys.dt.navy.mil> bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense) writes:
>In article <1993Apr24.003549.126206@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL) writes:
>
>>In article <1993Apr15.155325.6329@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, nancy@hayduke (Nancy
>> Feagans) writes:
>>>Ashtrays and cigarette lighters.  These should be an *option*.
>
>>You forget that the cigarette lighter plug is essential for plugging in radar
>>detectors and lights. The ashtrays are also essential because they are great
>>places to keep change and tokens.
>
>Wouldn't you rather have some type of standard "electrical" plug instead of 
>that "fire hazard waiting to happen" adaptor? I know I would, and I would 
>also prefer to have sensibly placed cup holders instead of an ashtray. (my 
>car came with coin holders already built in)
>
>Ron

Exactly.  You took the words right out of my mouth, Ron :-)

-- 

Nancy J. Feagans     (818) 306-6423
Jet Propulsion Lab   nancy@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103814
From: djanzen@kits.sfu.ca ('69 Dart)
Subject: '88 Corolla 5spd.

Hi there, maybe you can help me...

I have an '88 Corolla with a 5 speed as the subject line says.  The gearbox
seems excessivly clunky.  I used to have an '85 Corolla, and it was also 
somewhat clunky, but it had 30,000 more miles on it, and it wasn't nearly as
bad as this car!  Is there fluid in the 5speed case?  If there is, could it
just be low, or in need of a change?  As I recall, only the autos have fluid.
Or am I just mistaken?  Please no flames for owning an import.  I also have
an old Dodge, but it's not in very good shape these days...

Thanks,
Derek

Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103815
From: gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons)
Subject: Datsun/Nissan 240/260/280Z cars

Well, the Opel deal fell through...

Now i'm looking at a Datsun 240Z for sale in our local buy&sell.  Any
previous owners have any experience with these cars?  Besides looking
for rust,good compression,low miles, and all the other usual car
things one looks for, is there anything special about these cars that
I should watch out for?

How about things like handling,performance,mileage,etc.  These cars
look hot, to my eyes at least, and bear more than a passing
resemblance to the Aston Martin DB4 Zagato(sp?), which has to be one
of the most beatiful cars ever made.

What is the difference between 240Z, 260Z, 280Z?  The 280ZX is rather 
unappealing IMHO, but the other cars are decent.
Thanks again...
Darren Gibbons
gibbonsa@sfu.ca


Newsgroup: rec.autos
document_id: 103895
From: alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung)
Subject: Re: Waxes/Polishes

In article <1993Apr27.172335.23392@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bbarnard@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bret D Barnard) writes:
>With Spring upon us it's time to start waxing again.  I was wondering if anyone
>had any suggestions about waxes and polishes.  I know carnuba wax is often 
>recommended on the net, but I was wondering about the colored waxes to cover up
>some minor scratches.  Do the colored waxes give on overall good quality shine?
>Are they good for the paint or clear coat?
>
>What about Liquid Glass, is it a clear polish which dries clear; thus filling
>scratches?  is it good for the paint/clear coat?
>
>Please post with both good and bad experiences.  And hey, let's name names 
>(brands) here!  ;^)


All gimmicks!  Stick with plain 'ol carnauba wax that's non-abrasive.
Eagle 1, Meguiars, Turtle Wax, and a few others are good examples.
The colored waxes just color in the scratches so they're not so 
apparent.  The better approach is to buff minor scratches completely
off with a cleaner/mild abrasive.

Never tried Liquid Glass, although I still have this sample they sent
me a few years back. 

aaron
 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101551
From: cs012055@cs.brown.edu (Hok-Chung Tsang)
Subject: Re: Saturn's Pricing Policy

In article <C4vIr5.L3r@shuksan.ds.boeing.com>, fredd@shuksan (Fred Dickey) writes:
|> CarolinaFan@uiuc (cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
|> : 	I have been active in defending Saturn lately on the net and would
|> : like to state my full opinion on the subject, rather than just reply to others'
|> : points.
|> : 	
|> : 	The biggest problem some people seem to be having is that Saturn
|> : Dealers make ~$2K on a car.  I think most will agree with me that the car is
|> : comparably priced with its competitors, that is, they aren't overpriced 
|> : compared to most cars in their class.  I don't understand the point of 
|> : arguing over whether the dealer makes the $2K or not?  
|> 
|> I have never understood what the big deal over dealer profits is either.
|> The only thing that I can figure out is that people believe that if
|> they minimize the dealer profit they will minimize their total out-of-pocket
|> expenses for the car. While this may be true in some cases, I do not
|> believe that it is generally true. I bought a Saturn SL in January of '92.
|> AT THAT TIME, based on studying car prices, I decided that there was
|> no comparable car that was priced as cheaply as the Saturn. Sure, maybe I
|> could have talked the price for some other car to the Saturn price, but
|> my out-of-pocket expenses wouldn't have been any different. What's important
|> to me is how much money I have left after I buy the car. REDUCING DEALER PROFIT
|> IS NOT THE SAME THING AS SAVING MONEY! Show me how reducing dealer profit
|> saves me money, and I'll believe that it's important. My experience has
|> been that reducing dealer profit does not necessarily save me money.
|> 
|> Fred


Say, you bought your Saturn at $13k, with a dealer profit of $2k.
If the dealer profit is $1000, then you would only be paying $12k for
the same car.  So isn't that saving money?

Moreover, if Saturn really does reduce the dealer profit margin by $1000, 
then their cars will be even better deals.  Say, if the price of a Saturn was
already $1000 below market average for the class of cars, then after they
reduce the dealer profit, it would be $2000 below market average.  It will:

1) Attract even more people to buy Saturns because it would SAVE THEM MONEY.
 
2) Force the competitors to lower their prices to survive.

Now, not only will Saturn owners benefit from a lower dealer profit, even 
the buyers for other cars will pay less.

Isn't that saving money?



$0.02,
doug.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101552
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Are BMW's worth the price?                      

In article <1993Apr5.135153.11132@wdl.loral.com> gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) writes:
>Road and Track (2/88) BMW325is     0-60 7.5s, 1/4 mile 15.7s
>               (Road Test 
>                Annual 1993)       0-60 8.3s, 1/4 mile 16.2s
>
>
>Those are the numbers I was quoting, I have driven the older model but not the
>newer.


sure sounds like they got a ringer.  the 325is i drove was definitely
faster than that.  if you want to quote numbers, my AW AutoFile shows
0-60 in 7.4, 1/4 mile in 15.9.  it quotes Car and Driver's figures
of 6.9 and 15.3.  oh, BTW, these numbers are for the 325i.

i don't know how the addition of variable valve timing for 1993 affects it.
but don't take my word for it.  go drive it.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101553
From: netops@tekgen.bv.tek.com (Randy King)
Subject: RE: headlights problem

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO RESPONDED TO MY POSTING. 

THE PROBLEM WITH MY TRUCK'S HEADLIGHTS LOW BEAM PROBLEM WAS A "LOOSE WIRE
 CONNECTION".  IT WAS NOT THE "FUSE" AS A MINORITY OF YOU SUGGESTED.

THANKS AGAIN.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101554
From: netops@tekgen.bv.tek.com (Randy King)
Subject: left turn signal won't stop automaticaly

The subject says it all. My 1984 Chev S10 Pickup's left turn signal does
not stop after turning. What cause this to stop automaticaly?. Is this
a mechanical problem by the steering wheel?.

NOTE: This truck has an after market steering wheel (GT-Grant) installed.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101555
From: lxrosser@cco.caltech.edu (Alex Rosser)
Subject: Re: What is " Volvo " ?

wolfson@regatta.sps.mot.com (Stephen Wolfson) writes:

>In article <1993Mar31.193406.29625@ugle.unit.no> oep@colargol.edb.tih.no  
>(oep) writes:
>> which turns into a teenagers car when it gets old. The average  
>lifelength of
>> a Volvo in Norway is 18 years, and in Sweden 20 years)

>Of course someone pointed out when Saab or Volvo was running their
>At least 10 years ads, that the average milage was significantly
>less than than the US average.

That my be, but every Volvo I've ever owned has lasted far longer than most
other cars.....
1981 Volvo 245....125,000 Miles, still on the road.
1983 Volvo 242....195,000 Miles, still on the road.
1984 Volvo 244....175,000 Miles, still on the road.
And I'll admit, the dealer repair cost is high. But with some mechanical
aptitude of your own, and finding a good indi mechanic, you can avoid most
breakdowns, and make the rest cheap(The sum total of the repairs on the car with
195,000 miles has been 2 mufflers and a radiator. Whoa. Bad repair record). 
And all of these cars are driven fairly hard. None of them are at the head of
a line of cars going 30 MPH....the first two spend a lot of their operating
life with the speedometer pegged...and the only reason the 84 doesn't is it has
a 120 MPH speedo...
What I want to know is....have all you people who hate Volvos been traumatized
by someone in a 745 Turbo wagon blowing you away on the road, or what?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101556
From: reb@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Ralph Bean)
Subject: Re: saturn pricing blatherings

Mihir Pramod Shah (mps1@cec1.wustl.edu) wrote:
: Robert J. Wade writes:
: > until...and more Saturn retailers are built(like 2 in the same city), 
:                        		     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: ...most medium and large cities have...a small handful of Saturn dealers now

Sacramento has two Saturn dealerships.

: Mihir Shah

Ralph Bean
hprnd.rose.hp.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101557
From: tjo@scr.siemens.com (Tom Ostrand)
Subject: Radio for Toyota Tercel

I'm looking for a replacement radio/tape player for a 1984 
Toyota Tercel.  Standard off-the-shelf unit is fine, but 
every place I've gone to (Service Merchandise, etc.) doesn't 
have my car in its model application book.  I want to just 
take out the old radio, and slide in the new, with minimal time
spent hooking it up and adjusting the dashboard.

If you have put in a new unit in a similar car, I'd like to hear
what brand,  how easy it was to do the change, and any other 
relevant information. 

Please answer via E-mail.
Thanks,  Tom Ostrand

-- 
Tom Ostrand			E-mail:  tjo@scr.siemens.com
Siemens Corporate Research	Phone:   609-734-6569
755 College Road East		FAX:     609-734-6565
Princeton, NJ  08540-6668

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101558
From: carl_f_hoffman@cup.portal.com
Subject: 1993 Infiniti G20


I am thinking about getting an Infiniti G20.
In consumer reports it is ranked high in many
catagories including highest in reliability index for compact cars.
Mitsubushi Galant was second followed by Honda Accord).

A couple of things though:
1) In looking around I have yet to see anyone driving this
   car. I see lots of Honda's and Toyota's.
2) There is a special deal where I can get an Infinity G20, fully
   loaded, at dealer cost (I have check this out and the numbers match
   up). They are doing this because they are releasing and update mid-1993
   version (includes dual air-bags) and want to get rid of their old 1993's.

I guess my question is: Is this a good deal? 
Also, Can anyone give me any feedback on Infiniti?

Thanks,

Carl Hoffman

P.S.

The other cars that I have test driven and which are in the
running are:
Mitsubishi Galant, Honda Accord, and Toyota Camary

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101559
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Basics about maintenance

In article <1993Apr5.175719.7892@telxon.mis.telxon.com> joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt) writes:
>In article <1piip4$bo6@agate.berkeley.edu> hubertc@whistle.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Hung-Hsien (Hubert) Chang) writes:
>>
>>Hi! being new to a car owner, I would pretty much like to know more about 
>>some basics of maintaining the cars.
>>
>>I know the following:
>>
>>1. Oil has to be changed every 3000 miles.
>
>Change the oil filter, too.
>
>>2. Check tires before going on the high way. And fill up the tank.
>
>Make that monthly, or more often if you know one or more of your
>tires has a slow leak.

If the tire has a leak you should fix it. 

>
>>What others? Thank you.
>
>
>4. Check ALL fluids regularly (every month?), check the oil every time you
>   fill up with gas.

Doesn't work too well if the engine is hot, its more accurate to check the
oil when the engine is cool, i.e. not when you are at a gas station.

Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101560
From: pp29616@dcl-nextsc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Park)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR (really about other cars)

In article <1993Apr5.212645.15988@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>  
kenyon@xqzmoi.enet.dec.com (Doug Kenyon (Stardog Champion)) writes:
> 
> It's great that all these other cars can out-handle, out-corner, and  
out-
> accelerate an Integra.
> 
> But, you've got to ask yourself one question: do all these other cars  
have
> a moonroof with a sliding sunshade?  No wimpy pop-up sunroofs or power
> sliding roofs that are opaque.  A moonroof that can be opened to the  
air,
> closed to let just light in, or shaded so that nothing comes in.
> 
> You've just got to know what's important :^).
> 
> -Doug
> '93 Integra GS
hahaha ... my sentiments exactly.  

--

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101561
From: daz1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DEMOSTHENIS A. ZEPPOS)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR

In article <3mwF2B1w165w@njcc.wisdom.bubble.org>, jonc@njcc.wisdom.bubble.org (J
on Cochran) writes:
>> >     I'd like to add the Beretta GTZ as a car which will kick GS-R butt
>> >anyday, and it's a lot cheaper to boot
>>
>> I will take this one with a definate grain of salt.  Performance data shows a
>>
>> If this poster has some proof(other than "my friend blew one away last week"
>
>
>     Want proof?  Here is some data on acceleration and handling from
>Motor Trend (apr '93).
>
>          Integra GS-R     Beretta GTZ
>
>0-60         7.7             7.7
>1/4 mile     16.0/88.1       16.1/87.8
>L acc (g's)  .84             .86
>Slalom       63.7            68.4
>***WRONG***
Why don't you look again at Motor Trend's, slalom times, they are 67.9, right
along with the Integra, and the car does that with small 14 inch tires that
are all -weather XGTV4, not to mention that the Integra rides alot better than
a Beretta.
Your acceleartion times also vary, magazine to magazine
Road & Track and Car& Driver have the GS-R at 6.8 to 8.0 for Road and Track.
Also Quarter mile times vary from 15.4 to 16.1
You can't tell exactly by the numbers.  Furthermore, the Integra will
definately outrun the Beretta on the high end.  Car & Driver and Road & track
have the GS-R doing 136 to 141 mph, and it gets there fast.


>     So, the Beretta can out handle the Integra and it can certainly keep
>up with it in acceleration.  And the Beretta probably has a higher top
>speed due to the horsepower advantage (160/117 (hp/torque) for the
>Integra vs. 180/160 for the Beretta).
***You always believe those exact numbers, why don't you drive a GS-R, and see
for your self, while the GS-R has a low 117 torqye, its high gearing over a 8000
rpm make up for the difference (still wouldn't call it a torque moster though!)

>     The biggest advantage would have to be the price.  The Integra costs
>$19,111 (as tested Motor Trend), the GTZ costs $16,134 (as tested).  The
>GTZ also has standard nicities and Airbag and Antilock brakes.  An airbag
>is not available on the Integra and lower models do not have ABS.
>Considering you save almost $3,000 dollars for the Beretta, and the Quad4
>is a reliable engine, it doesn't make sense to get the Integra as a
>performance coupe, which is what people have been trying to make it out
>to be.
>

Quad 4 reliable, yeah, what's your definition of reliable- if that's reliable,
then its safe to say that integra engines in general are near perfect
 (not to mention, a hell of alot smoother and quieter - balance shafts.The Acura has the engine
   wins the reliablity contest hands down. You can rev that car all day, everyday,
and you'll never blow a hose, or crack the block, or anything else. (I speak
from expierence!)
I'm not saying the Quad 4 is a bad engine, but don't highlight reliability when you
comparing it to a Acura Engine.  AND while the Integra costs alot more, it is a
better investment since it will hold its value considerably much better.  And
does a nice job at being a sporty car and practical at the same time.

NOTE: this isn't a flame on the GTZ, or other GM Quad 4 products.  THe Berreta
is a nice car, and puts out respectable performance and a very reasonable
price not to mention, it has an Airbag.  But to start quoting figures from one
source, isn't too reliable.  Read other sources, and drive both cars.  While I
haven't driven a GTZ, I have driven GTs, and Grand Ams with Quad 4 engines,
(so they are similair.)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101562
From: stlucas@gdwest.gd.com (Joseph St. Lucas)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

Don't have a list of what's been said before, so hopefully not repeating.

How about horizontally mounted oil filters (like on my Ford) that, no
matter how hard you try, will spill out their half quart on the bottom
of the car when you change them?

-- 
Joe St.Lucas    stlucas@gdwest.gd.com        Standard Disclaimers Apply
General Dynamics Space Systems, San Diego
Work is something to keep me busy between Ultimate Frisbee games.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101563
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Subject: Re: How hard to change springs on F350 truck?

In article <1993Apr3.005245.10615@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
>Does it take any peculiar tools to remove the rear springs from a Ford
>F350 truck? o

   Naah.  Just a coupla nice big bumps.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101564
From: edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards)
Subject: Re: Jeep Grand vs. Toyota 4-Runner

In article <1pq29p$29p@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM writes:
>
>Any reason you are limited to the two mentioned? They aren't really at
>the same point along the SUV spectrum - not to mention price range.
>How about the Explorer, Trooper, Blazer, Montero, and if the budget
>allows, the Land Cruiser? 

Any advice on HOW to buy a Land Cruiser? My local Toyota dealer says they
get two a year, and if I want one I can just get on the waiting list.
Forget about a test drive or even kicking the tires.
And if they are that rare, I doubt there is much of a parts inventory on
hand.



-- 
Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101565
From: rcg1597@zeus.tamu.edu (GUYNN, RICHARD CARL)
Subject: Re: MGBs and the real world

In article <1993Apr5.181056.29411@mks.com>, mike@mks.com (Mike Brookbank) writes...
>My sister has an MGB.  She has one from the last year they were produced
>(1978? 1979?).  Its in very good shape.  I've been bugging her for years

	Last year produced: 1980.

>about selling it.  I've said over and over that she should sell it
>before the car is worthless while she maintains that the car may
>actually be increasing in value as a result of its limited availability.
> 
>Which one of us is right?  Are there MGB affectionados out there who are
>still willing to pay $6K to 8K for an old MG?  Are there a lot out in the 
>market?
>-- 

	Yes, there are still alot of MGBs out there.  The earlier cars (pre
 74-1/2) are usually more desirable due to certain things that went with having 
chrome bumpers (ride height, generally more power).  The older cars are 
appreciating... slowly.  The newer ones seem to be at a stable level at the 
moment.  $6 to $8k would require extremely good condition and low miles.
If the car is in good shape and regular maintenance is kept up on it, the car 
should last for a long time.  There are still plenty of parts sources ouththere. 
 The MGB is a great, fun little car.  If she is keeping it solely in the hopes 
that it is going to appreciate, tell her to sell it.  It is not worth waiting 
the time it would take to appreciate to a real profitable level.

***************************************************************************
*Rick Guynn -MG driver soontobe.  *  MGA 1600 MkII                        *
*RCG1597@zeus.tamu.edu            *  Rebuild (complete) to be finished ?? *
*Texas A&M University             *                                       *
*Keeper of the eternal octagon    *  `69 MGB Roadster                     *
* a.k.a. The marque symbol that   *     I'll have it registered soon,     *
*        refuses to die.          *        honest!                        *
***************************************************************************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101566
From: tbigham@shearson.com (Tim Bigham)
Subject: Re: Advice on BMWs and winter driving

This past winter I drove from NYC to Killington,VT 6 or 7 times in my
1990 325i Convertible (talk about poor reputation in the snow!!)
with an EXCELLENT set of snow tires. I put 4 Noika NR10s on in Dec. and have been 
sure footed in some pretty severe weather conditions ever since. I've plowed through
4 - 5 inch snow covered roads effortlessly, while other cars have been paralyzed
(front wheel drive included).

Concentrate more on "where the rubber meets the road" rather than driveability of cars
in snowy conditions. Drive carefully, buy good snow tires, and most cars will perform
adequately in less than ideal conditions.

An aside: 
I can't praise Noika NR10 snows enough. Absolutely the BEST snow tires I have ever
driven on. If you live in the snow belt, do yourself a favor and get a set of these
next winter. 


Tim


---
Timothy J. Bigham			| All opinions expressed above are my own
Lehman Brothers, Inc.			| and should not be construed as those of 
AMEX Tower, World Financial Center	| my employer.
New York, N.Y. 				| 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101567
From: silver@xrtll.uucp (Hi Ho Silver)
Subject: Re: WAX RESIDUE ON BLACK MOLDING

Sayeth "Joseph D. Mazza" <mazz+@andrew.cmu.edu>:
$I waxed my car a few months ago with a liquid wax and now have whiteish
$smears where I inadvertantly got some wax on the black plastic molding. 
$I've tried repeatedly to remove the smears with no luck.  I'm on the
$verge of replacing the molding altogether (it's a nice car).

   Armor All removes Raindance wax on my Mazda Protege's black
plastic bumpers.  Your mileage may vary.

   Given this observation, one would be well advised to take care not to
get any of this (or, probably, similar protectants such as Son of a Gun)
on one's paint ...
-- 
|I know that sometimes my jaw clicks when I eat.  Void where prohibited.|
|Have you seen this boy?  Lust never sleeps.  I say hurl.  Honey, I'm   |
|home. _________________________________________________________________|
|_____/ silver@bokonon.UUCP    ...!{uunet|becker|xrtll}!bokonon!silver  |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101568
From: silver@xrtll.uucp (Hi Ho Silver)
Subject: Re: Who was   or   what is   MIATA, as used in the Mazda Miata?

Sayeth sjwyrick@lbl.gov (Steve Wyrick):
$Anybody keeping track of how many of these there are?  So far I have
$Miata, Tredia, Previa, Sentra, Maxima, Altima, Camry, and Justy, not to
$mention Lexus, Acura and Infiniti!  

   You're apparently including names that are, or appear to be,
derivatives of real words in English or some other language (e.g.
Acura, Infiniti, Maxima, Altima), in which case you missed ones such
as Integra, Supra, Allante', Capri and Calibra.  In Canada, add Serenia and
Precidia.  If you count misspellings, add Protege and (in Canada)
Vigor.  How about the forthcoming Mondeo, if it is given that name
in North America?

   Others might include Celica, Corolla, Paseo, and Tercel.  In Canada,
add Asu"na.
-- 
|I know that sometimes my jaw clicks when I eat.  Void where prohibited.|
|Have you seen this boy?  Lust never sleeps.  I say hurl.  Honey, I'm   |
|home. _________________________________________________________________|
|_____/ silver@bokonon.UUCP    ...!{uunet|becker|xrtll}!bokonon!silver  |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101569
From: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM (John Fox - SunExpress IR)
Subject: Re: Jeep Grand vs. Toyota 4-Runner

In article IGw@world.std.com, edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards) writes:
>I am considering buying one of these two vehicles (new).
>I want a fun-to-drive family vehicle that can go through anything.
>The Jeep is very popular, and has the features. All-Wheel-Drive, 4 wheel
>anti-lock, roomy passenger cabin (but limited cargo with an internal spare).
>THe Toyota is an aging design with only part-time 4-wheel and only rear
>anti-lock (and no anti-lock in 4WD!). It also has a very inconvenient
>rear gate, not to mention awkward ingress to the passenger cabin.
>

Any reason you are limited to the two mentioned? They aren't really at
the same point along the SUV spectrum - not to mention price range.
How about the Explorer, Trooper, Blazer, Montero, and if the budget
allows, the Land Cruiser? 
Bear in mind that 90% of all SUV's purchased never venture off-road.
Carefully weigh the trade-off between comfort and off-road performance
when choosing one, and realistically decide whether you'll actually
make enough use of the off-road-ability to sacrifice (some of) the
on-road comfort.



John










John





















Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101570
From: bernstei@next3.corp.mot.com (Andrew Bernstein)
Subject: Re: GEICO mechanical breakdown insurance

In article <C50pBH.244@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu  
(Robert J. Wade) writes:
@>In article <1993Apr4.010517.9701@lds.loral.com> mcculloc@sps204.lds.loral.com (Thad McCulloch) writes:
@>>
@>>Has anyone had any experience with GEICO's extended
@>>warranty plan.  It seems to be slightly less expensive than
@>>the normal dealer-sponsored policy.
@>>
@>and once again....*never* buy extended warranties....they are a complete and
@>total ripoff period!!!!  you are better off taking your money and putting it
@> 
in a bank and using that money for repairs.  many extended warranties never
@>pay or have co-payments etc.  
@>


How many people will actually put that money in the bank and keep it there for the
sole use of a automotive repair......maybe for people who have a hard time saving
money or don't want the hassle of  worrying about paying for everything the 
extended warranty is worth it.....for some people it is worth it...others not, and
for some the peace of mind knowing you won't have too many unexpected expenses
is enough.....if you drive a lot, your basic warranty can be up in a little longer than
a year....how many people can make the car payments as well as large repairs....

It may work for some people......

Andrew


--

Andrew Bernstein                                        
Motorola Inc.                          "There's no such thing as sanity,
1299 E. Algonquin Road            and that's the sanest fact"
Schaumburg, IL 60196-1077                               ---- Dire Straits
         bernstei@next3.corp.mot.com (NeXT mail OK)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101571
From: mike@mks.com (Mike Brookbank)
Subject: MGBs and the real world

My sister has an MGB.  She has one from the last year they were produced
(1978? 1979?).  Its in very good shape.  I've been bugging her for years
about selling it.  I've said over and over that she should sell it
before the car is worthless while she maintains that the car may
actually be increasing in value as a result of its limited availability.

Which one of us is right?  Are there MGB affectionados out there who are
still willing to pay $6K to 8K for an old MG?  Are there a lot out in the 
market?
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Brookbank,                 |MKS| 35 King St. North       mike@mks.com 
Director, InterOpen Sales,      |MKT| Waterloo, Ontario      (519)884-2251 
Mortice Kern Systems Inc.       |MKS| Canada, N2J 2W9    fax (519)884-8861

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101572
From: wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su)
Subject: male/female mystery [ Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time ]

In article <1993Apr1.191826.28921@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:

<apparently you're not a woman - my husband hates the auto door locks
>features, but forgets that besides families with children, a woman
<feels safer in a car that locks easily (in addition to watching around
>& checking out if anyone's near me when I get to my car - never park
<in a secluded spot, etc - have my keys ready to open the door so I'm
>not fumbling in my purse looking for them ....

This has me thinking.  Is there a biological reason why women can't put
their keys in their pants pockets like men do?  I have two pockets on the
back of each of my pants.  I put my keys in one and wallent in another.
Many of the pockets even have a botton on them so I can close them securely.
Everything is that much simpler for me.  Why can't women do the same?
Is is biological (ie, not enough room for a bigger bottom plus keys and
a wallet) or is it the way they are raised by the parents? 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101573
Subject: Convertibles
From: bouton@gertrude.cms.udel.edu (Katherine Bouton)

I was wondering if someone could point me to somewhere I could
find a list (and hopefully comparison) of all the convertibles that are
out these days. Seems like they are making a big comeback - but I'm not
sure where to look

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101574
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Toyota wagons


Has anybody noticed that Toyota has an uncanny knack for designing horrible
ugly station wagons?  Tercels, Corollas, Camrys.  Have their designers no
aesthetic sense at all?
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101575
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time


Cup holders (driving is an importantant enough undertaking)
Cellular phones and mobile fax machines (see above)
Vanity mirrors on the driver's side.
Ashtrays (smokers seem to think it's just fine to use the road)
Fake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.
Any gold trim.

-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101576
From: wdh@grouper.mkt.csd.harris.com (W. David Higgins)
Subject: '93 Ford Probe GT -- Engine problems?

One of the local dealers has a used (7k miles) '93 Probe GT
on the lot with a photocopy of a document taped to the
window saying the dealership bought the car back from
the previous owner because of "Engine noises", but that
the Ford district rep had OK'ed the car saying those
noises were "normal".  I thought it was worth looking
into (the car seems otherwise clean) and mentioned this
to a co-worker, who proceeded to tell me a horror story
about her son's '93 Probe GT, which had several problems,
ending with engine noises which she said "was something
with the heads", that Ford acknowledged the noise, said
they were working on it, but didn't have a cure as of
yet.  Her son traded the car in (and I checked -- not
the same car).  So I have some evidence of a reoccuring
problem with the V6 in the Probe GT's, and by extension
with the Madza 626 and MX-6.

Anything to this?  I'd love to consider buying the GT (I'm
turning 40 -- time for my scheduled mid life crisis :-)
but I'd hate to find out I just became the proud owner
of a Lemon.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101577
From: kenyon@xqzmoi.enet.dec.com (Doug Kenyon (Stardog Champion))
Subject: Re: Integra GSR (really about other cars)


It's great that all these other cars can out-handle, out-corner, and out-
accelerate an Integra.

But, you've got to ask yourself one question: do all these other cars have
a moonroof with a sliding sunshade?  No wimpy pop-up sunroofs or power
sliding roofs that are opaque.  A moonroof that can be opened to the air,
closed to let just light in, or shaded so that nothing comes in.

You've just got to know what's important :^).

-Doug
'93 Integra GS

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101578
From: shou@logos.asd.sgi.com (Tom Shou)
Subject: Ford Explorer 4WD - do I need performance axle?

We're considering getting a Ford Explorer XLT with 4WD and we have the
following questions (All we would do is go skiing -- no off-roading):

1. With 4WD, do we need the "performance axle" - (limited slip axle).
Its purpose is to allow the tires to act independently when the tires
are on different terrain. 

2. Do we need the all-terrain tires (P235/75X15) or will the
all-season (P225/70X15) be good enough for us at Lake Tahoe?


Thanks,


Tom

-- 


===========================================================================

        Tom Shou			Silicon Graphics
	shou@asd.sgi.com		2011 N. Shoreline Blvd. 
	415-390-5362			MS 8U-815 
	415-962-0494 (fax)		Mountain View, CA 94043

===========================================================================

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101579
From: sheinfel@ssd.comm.mot.com (Aviad Sheinfeld)
Subject: Re: Lo Jack

According to a LoJack representative I saw recently, LoJack must be installed by
an authorized LoJack dealer, and is placed in one of (roughly) 30 spots in the
car...

>Thanks,
>Steve M.  att.com!mantic!srmal

Sure,
Aviad

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101580
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Subject: Re: How hard to change springs on F350 truck?

Bottom line:  I did it and it worked.

Some 'tips and techniques' are included here:

In article <C4zzpn.Ax7@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>In article <1993Apr3.005245.10615@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
>>Does it take any peculiar tools to remove the rear springs from a Ford
>>F350 truck?  This is a 4x4 with leaf springs front and rear.
>>
>>So, with a big socket and an air wrench and a floor jack (and a 
>>hydrolic bottle jack ...) can I do this at home?  

I found that I needed some smaller sockets to undo the shocks.
And a can of WD40 helped...

The sockets needed were metric (exact fit) but I was able to use
some SAE sockets...  13/16 and 15/16 are rather close to 21 and 24mm...
It CAN be fun having a Canadian Ford ...

>>I'm pictureing this:  Undo U bolts.  Put a bottle jack on the axle
>>and raise the bed/frame to take stress off of the leaf spring.  Undo
>>the end bolts/bushings.  Drop the spring.  Turn the bottom leaf. 
>>Re-connect the spring bolts...
>
>Sounds about right.

Didn't have to undo the end bolts/bushings.  Just the 2 U bolts on
each side and the shock absorber.  Jacking up the frame some more
(had to put the spare tire on the garage floor and put a wooden 
platform on top of that to get the 'floor jack' high enough to
raise the frame ... I't one TALLL truck...) lifted the spring
free of the axel.  Taking out the block gave me enough room to
undo the pin holding the spring pack together.

The spring pack was held together with a nut on top and a round head
on the other end....  No wrench head...  Vice Grips worked fine...
I soaked the nut with WD40 and it came right off.

Flipped the bottom spring and then...

>>Is this a nightmare waiting to happen, or an easy, though physically
>>demanding, thing to do?
>
>Well, it's easier than doing a decent trigger job on a 1911A1 :-)
>(OK, well, maybe it's not _that_ easy, but it's not terribly
>difficult.)

I donno ... I'm a little more sore today than after working on a
1911A1 ...

A 1.5 foot pipe cheater was a real help.  Torque spec for the U bolt
nuts is 150 to 200 ft-lbs (!).   A 1911-A1 doesn't have that kind of
torque spec ...

It was a 'challenge' to get the 'pack bolt' back in the spring pack.  
Squeeze pack with two hands, hold bolt with third, put nut on
with fourth while picking up wrench and vice grips with fifth
and sixth hands ...  I used some string to tie the pack together
while holding the pin in for alignment... then I could let go
to get the {nut, wrench, Vice Grips...}.

Getting the pin back lined up with the lift block was a challenge too...
until I discovered that the axel had 1) Tilted and/or 2) rolled forward.

One the drivers side, a bottle jack under the front of the differential
tilted it back in line enough for the pin head to drop into the right
hole.  On the passenger side, I had to wrestle the wheel into rolling
forward about 1/2 inch to get things to line up.  Spent more than an
hour working on getting the pin head into the hole in the lift block
with levers and ropes and impliments of distruction before I took a 
break and thought about WHY it wasn't lined up anymore (since it HAD
been lined up before, and *I* didn't move it, something ELSE must 
have ... hmmm, axle no longer constrained not to move ... hmmm, move 
it back... hmmm...).

After that, it was all much easier to 'close up'.

BTW, the ride is now softer, but not quite as soft as I was hoping for.
At least it now sits level..

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101581
From: gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan)
Subject: Re: Are BMW's worth the price?            

>sure sounds like they got a ringer.  the 325is i drove was definitely
>faster than that.  if you want to quote numbers, my AW AutoFile shows
>0-60 in 7.4, 1/4 mile in 15.9.  it quotes Car and Driver's figures
>of 6.9 and 15.3.  oh, BTW, these numbers are for the 325i.

Car and Driver rated the 325is (1988) at 7.2 0-60 , 1/4 at 15.2 (after 30k miles) last time I checked 8#}.

Automobile magazine rated new 325is 1/4 mile@16.2.

Gee , aint quotiin funner than the dickens!

Sounds like we need a race.  I'll let you have the newer version.  Can someone out there lend me a 1988 325is for a day 8-].  I wont hurt it, I promise.

>i don't know how the addition of variable valve timing for 1993 affects it.
>but don't take my word for it.  go drive it.

Actually I will take your word on it.  I refuse to test it (new 325is) because
I love BMW's and would probably want to buy it.  Problem is, my income just doesn't support that.  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101582
From: jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all tim

In article <1ppg8b$fvq@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt) writes:
>>In article <1phoi3$s95@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) 
>>writes:
>>[stuff deleted...]
>>>
>>>The silly thing about this whole argument is that most of the trunk
>>>releases (I'm tempted to say all, but there's bound to be a
>>>counterexample) only operate if the car is on (ACC or running).  Thus
>>>you can't easily pop the trunk without starting the car.
>
>>"Most" cars?  The only cars I've ever seen with this "feature" have been
>>GM cars.  My `88 Mazda, '80 Honda, and (coming soon) '93 Probe all have
>>cable-operated releases [...].  My '84
>>Camaro had an electric hatch release that was (thankfully) independent of
>>the key in the ignition (the exception to the rule mentioned in my first
>>sentence).
>
>I should probably have said "glovebox trunk releases."  I haven't
>encountered any glovebox releases that are cable operated.  Numerous
>GM and several Ford/Mercury cars that I've encountered have electrical
>releases in the glovebox, and all of the ones I've seen needed the
>ignition on to some degree to operate.  Your Camaro example is noted,
>but since it's a hardtop it's not a big deal.  I've never run into a
>convertible with a cable-operated trunk release -- I'd agree 100% that
>in such an environment a cable or always-active electrical release
>would be rather stupid.
>
>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.com

My Honda has a cable release that can be locked out with the ignition key.
The valet key can be left with someone and will NOT unlock the trunk
or enable the cable release.

I remember my mothers '86 Corvette that had an electronic hatch release
located on the drivers door, which was ALWAYS active.  The fact that the
car had no real trunk makes the security measure of beign able to 
dis-able the hatch release unnecessary.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101583
From: dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff)
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

Left hand steering wheel placement was not standard until the 20's in the
US. Driving on the right has been standard since standards came into being.
Interestingly, Chrysler has just begun building right hand drive cars again
for export to Japan.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101584
From: dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff)
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

DeSoto's first year of manufacture was 1928, so this may indeed have been
an export special, as left hand controls were standard here by then.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101585
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: 1993 Infiniti G20

>In article <78834@cup.portal.com> carl_f_hoffman@cup.portal.com writes:
>>2) There is a special deal where I can get an Infinity G20, fully
>>   loaded, at dealer cost (I have check this out and the numbers match
>>   up). They are doing this because they are releasing and update mid-1993
>>   version (includes dual air-bags) and want to get rid of their old 1993's.

is this really the dealer's cost?  did you get the dealer's cost by
looking at the invoice?  there may be factory to dealer incentives.
i'd check this out, since i have trouble believing that a dealer would
sell a car to me at his cost.

dealer invoice is not necessarily the dealer cost.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101586
From: cfj@ssd.intel.com (Charlie Johnson)
Subject: Re: LH car order delay

In article <1993Apr2.135926.1@skcla.monsanto.com>, mas@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
|> I read an article in the 3/25 Chicago Tribune stating that Chrysler is
|> having problems addressing the demand for the 3.5L engine for it's LH
|> cars.  Can anyone post how long they are waiting for an ordered car or
|> how long they have been told they'll have to wait??
|> 
|> Thanks!
|> 
|> John Mas
|> 
|> 
|> E-Mail Address     ::     MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM
|> 
I ordered an Intrepid ES on Jan 25th and haven't seen it yet.  I called
a couple of weeks ago and was told 2-3 more weeks.  It's probably time
to call again.
-- 
Charles Johnson
Intel Corporation
Supercomputer Systems Division
MS CO1-01
15201 NW Greenbrier Pkwy
Beaverton, OR  97006           phone: (503)629-7605  email: cfj@ssd.intel.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101587
From: mutrh@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Todd R. Haverstock)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

>Well, you young fellers won't remember, but we used to have side vent
>front windows until some damn bean counter scrapped them. These were
>separate triangular windows at the leading edge of the front doors
>that pivoted outward at the rear edge. Worked like a charm.
 
Yeah, I loved the vent windows on my 82 Escort (hell, the only thing I liked
about the car).  One of the things I'd like to see brought back.  Does
anyone know if they're an option on the new Escorts?

TRH

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101588
From: zakir@leland.Stanford.EDU (Zakir Sahul)
Subject: Inflation in car prices


Anyone have figures or pointers to references about 
how fast/much car prices have gone up in the last decade?

Thanks.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101589
From: swdwan@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Donald Wan)
Subject: just testing

hello testing



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101590
From: swdwan@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Donald Wan)
Subject: $ 80 SVX OIL CHANGE
 





 My friend brought a subaru SVX recently.  I had drove it for couples times and I
think its a great car, esp on snow.  However when she took it to a local Subaru
dealer for a oil change, the bill came out to be about 80 dollars.  The dealer
told us it is because to change the oil filter on a SVX it is necessary to
disassemble a metal cover under the engine and that took an hour of labour.
At first, we think we are being ripped off so she phone to a dealer in Toronto
but found out the they are charging roughly the same price.  So is there any
SVX owner out there that has the same problem ?  And if the oil change story is
true, then the engineer of Subaru looks pretty stubid to me. By the way, the car
looks great.

SWD Wan.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101591
From: pminocha@frx400.intel.com (Punit Minocha - QRE)
Subject: SAAB Mailing list

Could someone out there please tell me how I could get onto
the Saab mailing list. Specifically I need the address and
instructions on what to do.

Thanks in advance

Pete



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101592
From: dunnjj@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (DUNN  JONATHAN JAMES)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) writes:


>Cup holders (driving is an importantant enough undertaking)

This is a good idea - so you can carry your (non-alcoholic) drinks without
spilling or having someone hold on to them.

>Cellular phones and mobile fax machines (see above)

Fax machines, yes.  Cellular phones:  Why not get a hands-free model?

>Fake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.

Seemingly unique to American luxury cars.  The Big Three haven't yet realized
that the 1970s are over.

>Any gold trim.

I agree.  Just another display of Yuppie excess.

>Jon Dunn<



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101593
From: pp@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (peter.peng)
Subject: need info on Mazda 626



I test drove a Mazda 626 LX this past weekend and 
liked it.

The dealer offered it for $15K.

1) Is this a good price?
2) Any comments on 626 in general? 

Please use email. Thanks 


Peter
att!hotsoup!peng

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101594
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR

In article <1993Apr5.234729.100387@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> daz1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DEMOSTHENIS A. ZEPPOS) writes:
>In article <3mwF2B1w165w@njcc.wisdom.bubble.org>, jonc@njcc.wisdom.bubble.org (J
>on Cochran) writes:
>>> >     I'd like to add the Beretta GTZ as a car which will kick GS-R butt
>>> >anyday, and it's a lot cheaper to boot

Comparing the GTZ and GSR is apples to oranges, somewhat like a Mustang 5.0
and a CRX, both have very different ways of doing things and ought to
appeal to different buyers, i.e., I don't think an Acura owner would
be seen dead in a Chevy dealership or vice versa.

[stuff deleted]

>are all -weather XGTV4, not to mention that the Integra rides alot better than

No Integra I have seen comes with all-season tires. 
The GTZ does come with much bigger 16" wheels.

>along with the Integra, and the car does that with small 14 inch tires that
>Your acceleartion times also vary, magazine to magazine
>Road & Track and Car& Driver have the GS-R at 6.8 to 8.0 for Road and Track.

The C+D figures are almost certainly bogus and based on a hot prototype
supplied by Acura. The MT figures are more plausible.

>Also Quarter mile times vary from 15.4 to 16.1
16.1 sounds reasonable, probably faster than regular Integras.

>>     So, the Beretta can out handle the Integra and it can certainly keep
>>up with it in acceleration.  And the Beretta probably has a higher top
>>speed due to the horsepower advantage (160/117 (hp/torque) for the
>>Integra vs. 180/160 for the Beretta).
>***You always believe those exact numbers, why don't you drive a GS-R, and see
>for your self, while the GS-R has a low 117 torqye, its high gearing over a 8000

The GSR gearing is horrible for day to day driving. It needs a 6 speed
box more than any other modern car. Essentially 5th in a regualr Integra
equals 4th in the GSR, and the regular Integras are very buzzy at speed.

>rpm make up for the difference (still wouldn't call it a torque moster though!)
>
>>Considering you save almost $3,000 dollars for the Beretta, and the Quad4
>>is a reliable engine, it doesn't make sense to get the Integra as a

The only person I knew with a GTZ had it bought back by GM as a lemon. It
was a piecve of junk, but very quick for FWD.

>Quad 4 reliable, yeah, what's your definition of reliable- if that's reliable,
>then its safe to say that integra engines in general are near perfect

The only GSR owner I know had the engine throw a rod with less than 5k
miles, a rare screw up by Honda.
Both the GTZ and GSR are flawed cars. The performance enthusiasts would take
the GTZ and the CR purchase would be the GSR.


Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101595
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: MGBs and the real world

In article <1993Apr5.181056.29411@mks.com> mike@mks.com (Mike Brookbank) writes:
>My sister has an MGB.  She has one from the last year they were produced
>(1978? 1979?).  Its in very good shape.  I've been bugging her for years
>about selling it.  I've said over and over that she should sell it
>before the car is worthless while she maintains that the car may
>actually be increasing in value as a result of its limited availability.
>

Grass Roots Motorsport [3/93] has a long article about MG/B's this month.
As far as collectivity/speculation is concerned they think it is a 
waste of time, especially the later rubber bumpered models are the least
desirable, a 1962 original model the most. The reasons for its low
value are easy availability and the fact that it just was not a very good
car.

Craig
>Which one of us is right?  Are there MGB affectionados out there who are
>still willing to pay $6K to 8K for an old MG?  Are there a lot out in the 
>market?
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mike Brookbank,                 |MKS| 35 King St. North       mike@mks.com 
>Director, InterOpen Sales,      |MKT| Waterloo, Ontario      (519)884-2251 
>Mortice Kern Systems Inc.       |MKS| Canada, N2J 2W9    fax (519)884-8861

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101596
From: "tom neumann" <tom.neumann@canrem.com>
Subject: vw passat? (again)


kojo@valet.phx.mcd.mot.com (Kojo Yeboah) writes:

KY>To all those who have PASSATs, do you recommend using Super Unleaded or just
KY>regular Unleaded Gasoline. I have been using Regular Unleaded. A friend of mine has
KY>a Jetta and has always used Super Unleaded and thinks I should be using the same;
KY>however, I believe the advantages of Super Unleaded for CARs $30000 and under
KY>has been overplayed by guess who: the companies who sell them, because that is
KY>where they make the most PROFIT. A Ralph Nader report and other consumer advocates
KY>have in the past spoken against those oil companies.

Your Passat VR6 is designed to run on premium gasoline, however the
engine electronics will retard the timing so that no harm wil be done
to the engine with lower octane fuel.

You will likely, however, get somewhat more power and fuel mileage
(especially in hot weather) out of this particular engine if you do
run it on premium. 

Tom Neumann
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #350  I sell Volkswagens.
--
Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario
416-629-7000/629-7044

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101597
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Toyota wagons

In article <1993Apr5.213032.26844@pmafire.inel.gov> russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown) writes:
>In article <1pq6bl$9rj@news.ysu.edu> ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) writes:
>>Has anybody noticed that Toyota has an uncanny knack for designing horrible
>>ugly station wagons?  Tercels, Corollas, Camrys.  Have their designers no
>>aesthetic sense at all?
>>-- 
>The new Camry Wagon may just be even uglier than my Tercel.   :-)

toyota has cornered the market on ugly station wagons.
after seeing the new camry sedan, i had thought toyota would
finally turn out something nice-looking.  the new camry station
wagon bears a strong resemblance to a hearse, and a weird looking
one at that.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101598
From: dunnjj@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (DUNN  JONATHAN JAMES)
Subject: Re: Photo radar (was Re: rec.autos: Frequently Asked Questions)

>Photo radar and mailed tickets make no sense at all. Speeding is a moving 
>violation, committed by the operator, not the owner. The owner may be a 
>rental agency, a dealer, a private party, or a government agency. As long
>as the owner has no reason to expect the operator will be driving illegally
>or unsafely, the owner cannot be held responsible for what the operator does.
>The car may even have been driven without the owner's knowledge or consent. 
>I can't believe a mailed ticket, where the driver is not identified, would 
>stand up in court. This is obviously a lazy, cynical, boneheaded, fascist 
>way to extort revenue, and has nothing to do with public safety.

>- BK

What do photo radar units look like?  Also, what major U.S. cities use it?

>Jon Dunn<




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101599
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000


Your best bet is the Dodge Intrepid with the SOHC 24 valve 3.4? six.
it gets 214 hp, and has a hell of a lot of room, great styling, and
ABS, with four wheel disk breaks.  The LH cars won Automobile 
magazines 
"automobile of the year" award, and are quiet impressive.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101600
From: fsmlm2@acad3.alaska.edu (Rebelheart)
Subject: ALASKA CAR SHOW

        PENINSULA CRUISERS THIRD ANNUAL AUTOFAIRE

WHAT:  CAR SHOW (FOR ANY AND ALL TYPES OF VEHICLES INCLUDING PEDAL CARS)
WHERE:  KENAI MALL, KENAI, ALASKA
WHEN:  MAY 14, 15, & 16, 1993
WHO: PENINSULA CRUISERS CAR CLUB, KENAI, AK (907-283-4979)
WHY:  PROCEEDS OF THIS EVENT TO BENEFIT THE COOPER LANDING AMBULANCE CORPS.

GENERAL:  THIS CAR SHOW IS OPEN TO ALL TYPES OF CARS, TRUCKS, MOTORCYCLES, 
          FACTORY AND MODIFIED, MILD TO WILD, ANTIQUE, SPECIAL INTERESTS,       
          RACE, DRAG, MUDDERS, HI-PO, OR JUST PLAIN  UGLY :)

THIS IS A FUN EVENT, INTENDED FOR THE OCCASSIONAL GEAR-HEAD TO THE MOST
SERIOUS GEAR-SLAMMER.  WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AS MANY ENTRANTS AS POSSIBLE, 
BUT PLEASE CONTACT US FOR SPACE AVAILABILITY ( FIRST COME FIRST SERVE)

P.S.  ALL OUT OF TOWN ENTRANTS CAN STAY RIGHT NEXT DOOR AT THE 
        KENAI MERRIT INN FOR A SPECIAL RATE OF $60 A NIGHT 
        (SINGLE OR DOUBLE OCCUPANCY) CALL THE MERIT @
        907-283-6131

IF YOU'D LIKE ANY FURTHER INFORMATION, YOU CAN CONTACT ME AT THE 
ADDRESSES BELOW. 

 Mel McKay----cant drive 55!!!!!!! & Rebelheart, a gorgeous 90 SuperCoupe
Remember ....55 saves lives, 110 saves twice as many :)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=           Rebelheart                 	    |                                  =
=					    |"Too old for some things...       =
=  #define BITNET <FSMLM2@ALASKA>	    |   Too young to know 	       =
=  #define E-MAIL <FSMLM2@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU> |         which things."           =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101601
From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate)
Subject: Re: Was "Re: Safety": From how far can you see a car ?

In article <C4rvKM.367@plato.ds.boeing.com> simnet@plato.ds.boeing.com (Mark R Poulson) writes:
>ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>> You will be surprised at the number of people who forget their glasses
>> while driving.  And then there are the people who just plain don't get
>> their eyes checked once a year.
>
>As someone who has lousy vision, I can see objects at a distance without
>my glasses. However, they are quite fuzzy and I may not be able to make
>out the details. But I can certainly tell that SOMETHING is there.


  I won't argue too much about anything.  I am probably one of those that 
think that we can't have enough safety on the roads.  I would gladly 
sacrifice distractions (as you call it), than someone having trouble seeing
danger earlier.  One saved life justifies more than my lifetime of "distractions"
for me.


>>  And then there is dawn and dusk.  When your eyes have not yet adjusted
>> to the poor light.  And there are those who drive black/grey cars. And
>> then there is the case where you are driving down a two-way one lane 
>> road, and someone is overtaking cars, and coming the opposite direction 
>> doesn't see you because your lights are not on. Or vice versa.  At 60mph, 
>> that is quite a small reaction time.  But of course, we are too macho to 
>> think we are invincible and can react faster than that.... Only the poor 
>> sod who you didn't see might not have a normal life ever...
>
>I worked out the reaction time in a previous post and its PLENTY, even for
>an 80 year old grandma, as long as speeds are in the 60 MPH range or less.
>If you or some other driver is going way faster than that, then be careful.
>
>As always, you are responsible for your driving actions. If you pull out to
>pass and crash into someone (for whatever reason) its YOUR fault. If you can't


   Problem is that, I may just kill the guy. I agree that I would be at fault,
and I will have my license revoked, why, I might even go to the gas chamber.
But the fact still remains that the guy is dead.  Someone died because I
was too stingy to put on my lights. 


>see a damn thing, then you shouldn't be driving -- lights fail, fallen trees
>or rocks don't have lights, etc....  I maintain that headlight strength


   The ratio of the probability of fallen trees/rocks on the roads to 
oncoming traffic is too low to even be considered.  The difference is also
working on what we *know* could happen, to what *might* happen.


>running lights are not necessary for motorists who drive around 60MPH. It may
>be a good idea to force the running or headlights on when you turn your
>windshield wipers on, but only because some people are too stupid to do so.
>If you crash into one of those idiots, you have to fight it out in court to
>show his neglegence (if you can even prove it).


>>  Just out of curiosity, how much gas-milage do you loose when you put
>> your lights on?  And how much do you reduce the life of your head-lamps?
>> And what is the cost of your headlamps anyway?
>
>Mileage is certainly reduced, but by a very very small amount (probably
>about 110 watts for head and running lights). This is an extra 1/7 horsepower
>that must be made by the engine. It may be that this will cost you around two 
>gallons a year. But times 200 million cars, that's a lot of gas.

  Compared to the number of gallons of gas consumed by those 200 million cars,
it is miniscule! 

  Whatever.....  'tis a pity I have to share the same roads with a person
not concerned with safety.

-S
ssave@ole.cdac.com


>Lamp life is measured in hours. So if you normally drive in half daylight and
>half night, your lamps will have to be replaced twice as often. Headlamps
>only cost about $10US for most halogen lamps.
>
>The cost to the individual is trivial and to me is not the issue. What I
>don't like is the distractions all these cars with headlights cause. I don't
>need to constantly see the headlights of the vehicle behind me. I don't need
>to see the headlights of every gosh darn car for a mile down the road. These
>lit up cars make non-illuminated things LESS visible (like pedistrians and
>bikes). Hopefully we're not going to mandate DRL's for people and bikes 
>too.
>
>A stream of taillights is tolerable as are the orange front running lights.
>This is certainly sufficient for other people to see you (if they look) and
>doesn't distract me nearly as much as full power headlights.
>
>		Mark



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101602
From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate)
Subject: Quick question

 How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside
on an '87 Honda Prelude?  The speaker went scratchy, and I want
to access its pins.

 I see only one press button and the rest is snug fit.


 -S
 ssave@ole.cdac.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101603
From: lmann@jjmhome.UUCP (Laurie Mann)
Subject: Clothing (Was  Re: male/female mystery [ Re: Dumbest automotive...])

In article <1pima2INN180@gap.caltech.edu>, wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su) writes:
> This has me thinking.  Is there a biological reason why women can't put
> their keys in their pants pockets like men do?  I have two pockets on the
> back of each of my pants.  I put my keys in one and wallent in another.
> Many of the pockets even have a botton on them so I can close them securely.
> Everything is that much simpler for me.  Why can't women do the same?
> Is is biological (ie, not enough room for a bigger bottom plus keys and
> a wallet) or is it the way they are raised by the parents? 

Oh PULLEEZE!

It's not biology at all, it's clothing design.  Women's clothing is
generally designed to be as non-functional as possible.  It's only been
in the last five years or so that you could buy women's pants with
pockets deep enough to carry anything in.  Previously, deep pockets were
virtually unknown in women's clothing.  Skirts generally have better
pockets now, too.  Dresses, espcially fancy dresses, are still pretty
hopeless.  I often hand my driver's license over to my husband if we're
dressed up to go out somewhere, so I don't have to be encumbered by a
purse.

If women consistently bought functional clothing, and boycotted the
manufacturers who refuse to make functional women's clothing, I think
manufacturers would tend to bow to market pressures.  There's
an interesting chapter in Susan Faludi's Backlash that described
what happened the LAST time clothing manufacturers ignored the
need for functional women's clothing.  The manufactuing industry
lost millions.

From a woman who would rather buy men's clothing WITH decent pockets and
long legs and high waists than women's clothing without....






-- 
******** lmann@jjmhome.uucp (Internet) Laurie.Mann (GEnie) *********
** Claiming that sex education leads to irresponsible sex is like **
*****  claiming that driver education leads to car accidents.  *****

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101604
From: hhtra@usho0b.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Subject: Re: Looking to buy Dodge Stealth, have questions

In article <1993Apr2.030031.15691@cactus.org>, boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr1.104746@usho72.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:

 I found a Mopar spec sheet this weekend:

               model         wgt    hp
             Stealth         3086   164
             Stealth ES      3186   222
             Stealth RT      3373   222
             Stealth RT TT   3803   300

 Okay, I'll take "their" word for it.


> I am giving every chance to retract figures widely known. The Mustang is
> rated at 205.  222-205 is 17. You have a 17hp advantage over a Mustang

 Seems that the 1993 Mustang 5.0 is rated at 205 hp ONLY because Ford
 changed its testing procedures.  Under the older procedures, it still 
 rates closer to 225 hp.  That means that the Mustang has 3 hp more.
 
 And you still haven't posted any weight figures for the Mustang.


> Big threat. You are KO'd by a Civic, acording to C+D 

 Yeah, sure, in your wet dreams.  And that's probably where you got 
 that 11.2 second 0-60 for the Stealth.


>> I'll check C&D's 5/91 issue.  Strange that you claim to have that 
>
> Go ahead and check asshole, you'll realize what an idiot you are for not
> checking data beforeposting. Car+ Drive, may 91. Stealth ES, 222hp,
> automatic.

 For 3 posts now you've been harping on this May 1991 issue of Car & Driver
 without posting any numbers.  Why not?  Because they prove me right and you
 ain't got the guts to admit it?  Yeah, thought so.


> The Sentra SE-R really is alot quicker than the 222hp FWD Sports car.
> You are close to the 9k sentra-e. Go look up the numbers in C+D - and
> report please.

 No, I'm going to play your game -

       No way, Sentra's are SLOW!  I took a test drive and it took
       21.7 to go 0-50!  Why, even the Hyundai Excel blows it doors
       off.  Any 12 yr old knows that!  I race and I'll kick your butt! 
       blah, blah, blah...

 Let's see ...  yep, that sounds just like you. 
 Oh man, I just got it!  Beavis & Butthead - that's you!


> Who would buy a FWD automatic, that costs $20K+ that is capable of only
> a 15.8 and would plainly be dusted by a SE-R?

 I dunno, why did you?

 But why would someone pick the Dodge Stealth RT over the Nissan Sentra?
 All it takes is one look.

 
 TRAVIS

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101605
From: zowie@daedalus.stanford.edu (Craig "Powderkeg" DeForest)
Subject: Re: 5W30, 10W40, or 20W50

In article <foo> Brad Thone <C09615BT@WUVMD> writes:
Well, there *is* a difference.

I don't happen to have my SAE manual handy, but oil viscosity in general
_decreases_ with temperature.  The SAE numbers are based on a `typical'
curve that oils used to all have, running from (say) the viscosity of a
room-temperature 90-weight at 0C, down to (say) that of a room-temperature 
5-weight at 20C, for a typical 40-weight oil.

Oils that are designed for operation in `normal' temperatures just have
a weight specification.  Oils that are designed for operation in exceedingly
cold temperatures have a `W' tacked on the end, so in winter in a cold
place, you'd stick 10W in your car in the winter and 40 in it in the summer,
to approximate the appropriate viscosity throughout the year.

Modern multi-viscosity oils change viscosity much less with temperature.
As a result, their viscosity graphs cross over several curves.  A multi-vis
specification pegs the curve at two temperatures, a `normal' operating
temperature and a `cold' one (though I can't remember the numbers...).

In any event, the weights do indicate a significant difference.  Remember
that your engine is temperature-regulated (by the thermostat and
radiator or air fins) most of the time -- unless you overheat it or
something.

Any weight of oil is better than no oil, or than very old, carbonized
oil.  Thin oil won't (in general) lubricate as well at temperature,
thicker oil will (like a 20W50) will lubricate better at temperature, 
but not as well during startup, when most engine wear occurs.  

If you're planning on making long drives, the 20W50 is probably fine
(esp. in the summer) in your 10W40 car.  But if you're making short drives,
stick to the 10W40.


--
DON'T DRINK SOAP! DILUTE DILUTE! OK!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101607
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Looking to buy Dodge Stealth, have questions

In article <1993Apr5.203719@usho0b.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho0b.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
>In article <1993Apr2.030031.15691@cactus.org>, boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>|> In article <1993Apr1.104746@usho72.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
>
> I found a Mopar spec sheet this weekend:

>
>               model         wgt    hp
>             Stealth         3086   164
>             Stealth ES      3186   222
>             Stealth RT      3373   222
>             Stealth RT TT   3803   300
>
> Okay, I'll take "their" word for it.

These arethe numbers I have been stating in the past 5-10 messages. It
really angers me that you insisted you were right, and that you had
no clue what your own car weighed. Why didn't you check when I first
told you that your figures were implausible?


>

>
>> I am giving every chance to retract figures widely known. The Mustang is
>> rated at 205.  222-205 is 17. You have a 17hp advantage over a Mustang
>
> Seems that the 1993 Mustang 5.0 is rated at 205 hp ONLY because Ford
> changed its testing procedures.  Under the older procedures, it still 
> rates closer to 225 hp.  That means that the Mustang has 3 hp more.
> 
I'd like to hear a better explanatin of how you come to that 
conclusion from the above data.

>
>> Big threat. You are KO'd by a Civic, acording to C+D 
>
> Yeah, sure, in your wet dreams.  And that's probably where you got 
No, sorry your wrong again. *You* quoted the del Sol as doing 0-60 in
8.1 according to C+D. Interestingly, the Stealth ES, which is
*faster* than your RT does the samerun in 8.5 seconds according to
C+D. Kind of embarassing isn't it? Why didn't you check the figures

before posting? It only makes you look stupid when you are caught out
twice with *your own* figures.

> that 11.2 second 0-60 for the Stealth.
>
>
>>> I'll check C&D's 5/91 issue.  Strange that you claim to have that 

You really should have checked.

>>
>> Go ahead and check asshole, you'll realize what an idiot you are for not
>> checking data beforeposting. Car+ Drive, may 91. Stealth ES, 222hp,
>> automatic.
>
> For 3 posts now you've been harping on this May 1991 issue of Car & Driver
      *2*
> without posting any numbers.  Why not?  Because they prove me right and you
> ain't got the guts to admit it?  Yeah, thought so.
>
If you insist, I gave you every chance to retract, but:

  Dodge Stealth ES Auto does an 8.5/16.4 - Wonder why you couldn't find it?

Do you realize that a 9k Sentra (C+D) will run a 16.7, that a Sentra SE-R or Saturn
will run in the 15's? Don't you think it is kind of strange that your
222hp sports car is so easily beaten. 

A Mustang 5.0, which weights about the same (according to *your* numbers),
has less power and is much quicker? Care to explain. Don't be abusive,
just try and come up with a rational explanation of where those 222hp
went to, its a mystery to me.

>> The Sentra SE-R really is alot quicker than the 222hp FWD Sports car.
>> You are close to the 9k sentra-e. Go look up the numbers in C+D - and
>> report please.
>
> No, I'm going to play your game -

>
>       No way, Sentra's are SLOW!  I took a test drive and it took
>       21.7 to go 0-50!  Why, even the Hyundai Excel blows it doors

I guess you drove a 5 speed and couldn't shift/
Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101608
From: kak@hico2.westmark.com (Kris A. Kugel)
Subject: Storing a car long term

I bought a car with a defunct engine, to use for parts
for my old but still running version of the same car.

The car I bought has good tires.

Is there anything in particular that I should do to
store the defunct car long-term?  I'd hate to have
parts of it go bad.  Someone has told me it's bad
for the tires to not move the car once-in-a-while.
Is this true?   Do I need some props to take the
weight of the tires?

Best to reply by mail, I am getting spotty news delivery.

Kris A. Kugel	908-842-2707
hico2!kak	kak@hico2.westmark.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101609
From: "Daniel U. Holbrook" <dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

>>
>>The reason I ask is because I went to a classic car meet here in the UK,
>>and saw a very nice old De Soto, 1920's vintage I'd guess, with wooden
>>artillery type wheels, etc, but it was right-hand drive. I can't believe
>>that DeSoto produced RHD cars just for the UK....

Well Sweden and Australia, and lord knows wherever else used to drive on
the "wrong" side of the road, so the export market might have been
larger then than just the UK.

>i'm guessing, but i believe in the twenties we probably drove mostly down
>cattle trails and in wagon ruts.  I am fairly sure that placement of the 
>steering wheel was pretty much arbitrary to the company at that time.....

By the 1920s, there was a very active "good roads" movement, which had
its origins actually in the 1890s during the bicycle craze, picked up
steam in the teens (witness the Linclon Highway Association, 1912 or so,
and the US highway support act (real name: something different) in 1916
that first pledged federal aid to states and counties to build decent
roads. Also, the experience of widespread use of trucks for domestic
transport during WW 1 convinced the government that good raods were
crucial to our national defense.  Anyway, by the 20s there were plenty
of good roads, at least around urban areas, and they were rapidly
expanding into the countryside.  This was the era, after all, of the
first auto touring fad, the motel, the auto camp ground, etc. Two good
books on the subject spring to mind - Warren Belasco "America on the
Road" (title may not be exact - author is) and another called "The Devil
Wagon in God's Country" author I forget.  Also, any of John Flink's  or
John Bell Rae's auto histories.

As to placement of the steering wheel being arbitrary, by the early
teens there were virtually no American cars that did not have the wheel
on the left.  In the early days, cars had the wheel on the left, on the
right, and even in the middle, as well as sometimes having a tiller
instead of a wheel.  This was standardized fairly early on, though I
don't know why.


Dan
dh3q@andrew.cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University
Applied History

"World history strides on from catastrophe to catastrophe, whether we
can comprehend and prove it or not."
               Oswald Spengler





Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101610
From: Steve.Green@its.csiro.au (Steve Green)
Subject: Any Subaru Liberty owners out there?

I've had my Subaru Liberty 4WD station wagon for about 8 months now. Saying
I'm happy with it would be an understatement!

Just great. Well built, handles beautifully, plenty of power. I've only
had if 'off tar' once. Did a trip over the mountains on a narrow, windy
dirt road, often _very dodgey_ in parts. The Subaru did it with ease.
I havent had so much fun driving a car for years!

Any other owners out there?

************************************************************************
* Steve Green      * "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit outa' my hat!" *
* Comms Group      * "That trick never works"                          *
* ITS Branch       * "Nothin' up my sleeve - PRESTO!"                  *
* CSIRO Australia  * "No doubt about it - I gotta get another hat"     *
************************************************************************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101611
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Subject: Re: Difference between Lexus 300 series?

From article <1993Apr5.200048.23421@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, by lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric Lorenzo):
> 	What is the difference between the LS300, ES300 and GS300?  Seems
> Lexus can't stop popping out new models.

--Let me put it like this.  The only similarity between the three models
  is the "300", or 3-liter engine displacement.  Actually, the SC300 (the
  coupe) and the GS300 (the funky-looking new sedan) share the same 3.0
  liter inline-six, and the ES300 (popular small sedan) uses 3.0 V6 shared
  with the Camry.  The SC300 is a luxury/sports coupe, the GS300 is the new
  luxury sedan, and the ES300 is the base executive sedan.  All three look
  completely different.

--Aamir Qazi
-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101612
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (CarolinaFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000

rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen) writes:


>Your best bet is the Dodge Intrepid with the SOHC 24 valve 3.4? six.
>it gets 214 hp, and has a hell of a lot of room, great styling, and
>ABS, with four wheel disk breaks.  The LH cars won Automobile 
>magazines 
>"automobile of the year" award, and are quiet impressive.

	Is the 24v LH under $16K, though?


-- 
Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois/Urbana Champaign mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************************************************************
*"Because he was human      Because he had goodness      Because he was moral*
***************They called him insane..."  Peart "Cinderella Man"*************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101613
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (CarolinaFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Saturn's Pricing Policy

cs012055@cs.brown.edu (Hok-Chung Tsang) writes:

>In article <C4vIr5.L3r@shuksan.ds.boeing.com>, fredd@shuksan (Fred Dickey) writes:
>|> CarolinaFan@uiuc (cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>|> : 	
>|> : 	The biggest problem some people seem to be having is that Saturn
>|> : Dealers make ~$2K on a car.  I think most will agree with me that the car is
>|> : comparably priced with its competitors, that is, they aren't overpriced 
>|> : compared to most cars in their class.  I don't understand the point of 
>|> : arguing over whether the dealer makes the $2K or not?  
>|> 
>|> I have never understood what the big deal over dealer profits is either.
>|> The only thing that I can figure out is that people believe that if
>|> they minimize the dealer profit they will minimize their total out-of-pocket
>|> expenses for the car. While this may be true in some cases, I do not
>|> believe that it is generally true. I bought a Saturn SL in January of '92.
>|> AT THAT TIME, based on studying car prices, I decided that there was
>|> no comparable car that was priced as cheaply as the Saturn. Sure, maybe I
>|> could have talked the price for some other car to the Saturn price, but
>|> my out-of-pocket expenses wouldn't have been any different. What's important
>|> to me is how much money I have left after I buy the car. REDUCING DEALER PROFIT
>|> IS NOT THE SAME THING AS SAVING MONEY! Show me how reducing dealer profit
>|> saves me money, and I'll believe that it's important. My experience has
>|> been that reducing dealer profit does not necessarily save me money.
>|> 
>|> Fred


>Say, you bought your Saturn at $13k, with a dealer profit of $2k.
>If the dealer profit is $1000, then you would only be paying $12k for
>the same car.  So isn't that saving money?
	
	Yes.  But the point is that prices are competetive.  Saturn may
well be selling a car intended on giving the dealer a $2000 profit, but 
since a comperable Honda with $500 profit is more expensive, it may be well
worth it to buy the Saturn.

>Moreover, if Saturn really does reduce the dealer profit margin by $1000, 
>then their cars will be even better deals.  Say, if the price of a Saturn was
>already $1000 below market average for the class of cars, then after they
>reduce the dealer profit, it would be $2000 below market average.  It will:

>1) Attract even more people to buy Saturns because it would SAVE THEM MONEY.
> 
>2) Force the competitors to lower their prices to survive.

>Now, not only will Saturn owners benefit from a lower dealer profit, even 
>the buyers for other cars will pay less.


	Not necessarily.  It seems to me that Saturn salesdroids, who don't 
make a commision, whereas their counterparts at other dealerships generally
do, make more $$ per hour or whatever.  This means that Saturn doesn't give up
the profit to their employees through commision, which IS taken out of per-
car profits.  They just pass it along to less pressureing salesmen/women.

>Isn't that saving money?

	Maybe.  Maybe not.  Depends on accounting practices.  I'd rather pay
more for dealer service that doesn't cut corners to contain costs...


>$0.02,
>doug.

$2/100
CKA
'87 (Carolina) Blue Honda Civic DX


-- 
Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois/Urbana Champaign mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************************************************************
*"Because he was human      Because he had goodness      Because he was moral*
***************They called him insane..."  Peart "Cinderella Man"*************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101614
From: rgc3679@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert G. Carpenter)
Subject: Thinking About Buying Intrepid - Good or Bad Idea?

I'm thinking of buying a new Dodge Intrepid - Has anyone had any
experiences that they'd like to share?

Thanks.

BobC


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101615
From: zowie@daedalus.stanford.edu (Craig "Powderkeg" DeForest)
Subject: Re: Quick question

In article <foo> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
    How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside
   on an '87 Honda Prelude?  The speaker went scratchy, and I want
   to access its pins.

Why are you posting this tripe to rec.autos.vw?
--
DON'T DRINK SOAP! DILUTE DILUTE! OK!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101616
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Spark Plug question?

In article <mgolden.733994052@cwis> mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden) writes:
>  The nice thing about REAL platinum plugs is that you don't have to change
>them very often at all.  (I think like 50,000 miles!!)  They might cost $10
>each, but they would save for themselves in the long run.

My T-Bird SC's manual says to replace the platinum plugs every 60,000mi.
Wal-Mart has Autolite platinum plugs for $2.00 each. Are these "real"
platinum plugs? (I had Bosch platinums in my '80 Fiesta and my dad
had 'em in his '84 Bronco--note the keyword "had." They didn't last
very long (much less than 50,000mi) before they had to be replaced.
I agree that they weren't the greatest.)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101618
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

In article <YfkBJQS00Uh_E9TFo_@andrew.cmu.edu> "Daniel U. Holbrook" <dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>
>
[stuff about RHD deSoto's deleted]

>Well Sweden and Australia, and lord knows wherever else used to drive on
Australians still do drive on the "wrong" side of the road. I believe
Sweden changed in 1968. The way I heard it was that they swapped
all the traffic signs around one Sunday....

>the "wrong" side of the road, so the export market might have been
>larger then than just the UK.
>
Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101619
From: ct22@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Constantino  Tobio)
Subject: Re: Quick Question

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Quick question
Summary:
Expires:
References: <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com>
Sender:
Reply-To: ct22@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Constantino  Tobio)
Followup-To:
Distribution: 
Organization: Columbia University
Keywords: Removing panels.

In article <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
> How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside
>on an '87 Honda Prelude?  The speaker went scratchy, and I want
>to access its pins.
>
> I see only one press button and the rest is snug fit.
>
>
> -S
> ssave@ole.cdac.com

Quick question. Why are you posting this to a VW newsgroup?

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Quick Question
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: Columbia University
Keywords: 

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: Quick question
Summary:
Expires:
References: <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com>
Sender:
Reply-To: ct22@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Constantino  Tobio)
Followup-To:
Distribution: 
Organization: Columbia University
Keywords: Removing panels.

In article <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
> How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside
>on an '87 Honda Prelude?  The speaker went scratchy, and I want
>to access its pins.
>
> I see only one press button and the rest is snug fit.
>
>
> -S
> ssave@ole.cdac.com

Quick question. Why are you posting this to a VW newsgroup?
Constantino Tobio, Jr.                              ** ct22@columbia.edu **
"Tremble you weaklings, cower in fear, I am your ruler, land, sea and air.
 Immense in my girth, erect I stand tall, I'm a nuclear murderer.
 I am POLARIS!"      - Megadeth, "Rust in Peace"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101620
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Subject: Re: saturn -- puzzled by its pricing

In article <1993Apr1.230642.5207@cbfsb.cb.att.com> ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu) writes:
>
>	I am the person who started out this subject.
>
>	To me, the question really is not about dealer profit but the
>	amount of money for the type of car. I've settled with a
>	new 92 Subaru Wagon with the similar amount of money a Saturn
>	dealer asked for a SW1. OK, I know it's a 92 model, but I think
>	I got a better car (though I have to adjust my initial idea of 
>	why I am getting a new car).
>
>	Today, during a conversion with a friend, I learned he rejected
>	a Saturn for a Ford Tarurs; as it only costed him a little bit more
>	than a SL2. I may be wrong, but a loaded Tarus beats a Saturn SL2.

	I agree that a fully-loaded SL2 would come close in price to a
LOWER-END Ford Taurus.  A FULLY-LOADED Taurus, on the other hand, would still
be substantially more expensive than even the most glitzy SL2.  A fully loaded
SL2 would run somewhere around $17,000, while a fully loaded Taurus LX would be
somewhere around the $22,000-$23,000 range.  A base Taurus (GL I believe) might
start around $15,000.  Of course there is the Taurus SHO which can push $30,000
if you really try, but this is a totally different car than your mainstream
Taurus sedan.  Your statement was not entirely faulty, just a little
inaccurate.

>
>	I can't see Saturn is of better value and that is why I was puzzled
>	by its pricings. Oh, we did not spend much time getting our deals;
>	being better informed has its advantages.

Well, that's ok.  At least you're not bitching about dealer profits like some
of the other netters are.  You seem to have rationally picked out the car that
is best for you.  The Loyale is an aging design that is about to be replaced by
the Impreza wagon, so you probably got a good deal on one of the last ones.

>	
>	Then again, I may be wrong.
>
>Yung-Kao Hsu
>

Mihir Shah
mps1@cec1.wustl.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101621
From: pp@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (peter.peng)
Subject: 1990 Integra LS for sale



********* 1990 Integra LS for Sale *********

5 speed, sunroof, rear spoiler, new tires
59.7K miles

$ 7950 or best offer.

call 908-949-0878
     908-938-4101

email att!hotsoup!peng

*********************************************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101622
From: lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric Lorenzo)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR

In article <1993Apr5.234729.100387@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> daz1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DEMOSTHENIS A. ZEPPOS) writes:
>Why don't you look again at Motor Trend's, slalom times, they are 67.9, right
>along with the Integra, and the car does that with small 14 inch tires that
>are all -weather XGTV4, not to mention that the Integra rides alot better than
>a Beretta.

	My GS came with XGT V4s and they are NOT all weather tires.  I took
out my right front bumper sliding on packed snow (not ice), before I learned
this fact.  I immediately bought XGT H4s which are definately all-weather.
A Carrera 4 I walk by everyday has XGT V4s on it even.  The Michelin dealer
where I bought my new tires said the V4s were made out of a different 
rubber that gets really hard and slick when the weather gets near feezing.  
Said he'd only try to sell me those tires during the winter if we were in
Texas and not Colorado.

Thanks,
Eric



-- 
     --    O       An inactive lifestyle               Eric J. Lorenzo
   ---   </\_  violates our genetic warranty   lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU
  ---  -\/\       Not to excercise is not            also @spot & @ucsu
    ---   /_         to be fully human.    -Keith Johnsgard

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101623
From: m-it2691@DOC.CS.NYU.EDU (Tim Tsai)
Subject: AWD BMW


  Any truth to the rumor of an AWD 3-series for '94?  I believe
this info was published in either Popular Science or AutoWeek
a couple of months ago.

  Also, a friend told me that BMW used to make an AWD 325 called
the 325ix.  I'd appreciate any info about this car too.  Thanks..

  Thanks.

  Tim

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101624
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Subject: Re: Saturn performance(was Re: saturn -- puzzled by its pricing

In article <4fjDcfu00iV2I9Kap_@andrew.cmu.edu> "Jason M. Roth" <jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>I can't imagine any Civic or Saturn owners flex'n there egos in stop light
>>races. It generates as much excitement as two nerds challenging each other
>>in a game of one-on-one basketball!!
>
>The SL2 does 0-60 in about 8.5; note that this is closer to a 968 than
>to a Paseo or Storm (pseudo-sporty cars). That's a ridiculous
>comparison, I know, but the point is that Saturns (and high-end Civics,
>for that matter) accelerate just fine, in fact better than most
>unimproved "muscle" cars of the 60s; 300 hp is great, but tied to 2
>tons, it just doesn't go that quick. Saturns, on the other hand, use 125
>hp tied to 2400 lbs with some short gearing to move very quickly off the
>line. Anyway....
>
>
>

While your 0-60 time is consistent with most car magazines and reports, I saw
the PBS MotorWeek show clock a 5-speed SL2 at 7.9 seconds.  I'm sure that most
SL2 owners will be VERY lucky to get this speed, but 7.9 seconds is still
astonishingly fast for a small 4-door.  A new Civic EX runs about 8.2 seconds
0-60, if I'm not mistaken.  Most cars in this class are lucky to be in the
9-second range.


Mihir Shah


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101625
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: AWD BMW


in europe you can buy a 525iX, with computer controlled diffs rather
than the horrid viscous coupled ones of the outgoing 325iX.

eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101626
From: kega@celsiustech.se (Kent Gabrin)
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

In article <1993Apr6.060553.22453@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:

...deleted lines...

>>Well Sweden and Australia, and lord knows wherever else used to drive on
>Australians still do drive on the "wrong" side of the road. I believe
>Sweden changed in 1968. The way I heard it was that they swapped
>all the traffic signs around one Sunday....

   As I live in Sweden I remember the day perfectly well. We changed
side 1967-09-03 (or 03-SEP-1967). I don't remeber the exactly time but
it was in the night. (in the 'big' cities like Stockholm & Gothenburg
all trafic was forbidden, exept busses and taxis, during the whole
weekend.) The day was a Sunday and everything was prepared in before.

Before the day we was told to follow the yellow lines on the road and
after it was the white one that matters. The signs with arrows on was
prepared with a 'left mode' label that was torn off that night to
reveal the new right mode arrow.

The year after Iceland also changed.

About cars: Before the H-day (H as in "Hoegertrafik". "hoeger" is
Swedish and stands for 'right') practically all cars already had their
steering wheels on the left side. Even the imported cars from UK had
the wheel on 'the right side'. At last we have cars with the wheels on
the right side. :-)

More contries that uses the left side is:

Japan
Tanzania (I think)
New Zeeland
How about South Africa?

BTW. Some sais that the left side is the right side because Ivanhoe
and other knights meet at the left when they fight in tournaments. :-)

...deleted lines...

Kent Gabrin   CelsiusTech Systems  ! My thinking is not as great as
S-175 88 Jaerfaella       Sweden   ! Oliver Berendinus Bumble /Will Try
KEGA@Celsiustech.se ! Company sold again. Former name was: NobelTech


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101627
From: boyle@bbsls23.bnr (Ian Boyle)
Subject: Re: What is " Volvo " ?

> And all of these cars are driven fairly hard. None of them are at the head of
> a line of cars going 30 MPH....the first two spend a lot of their operating
> life with the speedometer pegged...and the only reason the 84 doesn't is it has
> a 120 MPH speedo...
> What I want to know is....have all you people who hate Volvos been traumatized
> by someone in a 745 Turbo wagon blowing you away on the road, or what?

740 Turbo in UK was good for 124mph. Useful for blowing away VW Beetles, though I
believe the Beetle corners better. 

I can say without any doubt that I have never been blown away by any Volvo, ever.
I've been blocked into a few car parks though by shit-head Volvo owners who 'only thought they'd be a few minutes'. This does not happen with the owners of any other makes of car.

Not sure how long the small shit-box Volvos last - too damn long. The worst car I ever drove was a hired 340. In power, handling and ride it was reminiscent of something
from the 50s, without the character. The 340 only ceased production a couple of years back. I've only been a passenger in the big Volvos, but that was enough. I ought to go
for a test drive because they offer some neat gifts.





Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101628
From: jdmooney@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (John D. Mooney)
Subject: Re: anti-theft devices


In article <99948@rphroy.ph.gmr.com>, rhaar@gmr.com (Bob Haar) writes:
> In article 3056@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com, jdmooney@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (John D. Mooney) writes:
> |>
> |>Someone writes:
> |>> 
> |>> BTW, somebody stole the front grille off my beat-up 1983 Nissan Sentra
> |>> a few weeks ago!  I couldn't believe it.  I'm just driving around
> |>> without it now.
> |>
> |>Years ago, my brother lived in a ROUGH area....  he left his NOVA 
> |>parked on the street in FRONT of his house for a few days.....  
> |>one day he went to move it back into the driveway, it wouldn't start....
> |>
> |>Seems some industrious fool needed a NOVA GAS TANK..... the fool found
> |>one under my brothers car.  
> |>
> 
> The engines in VW Beatles are quite easy to remove without entering the car
> or even opening the engine compartment. How would you like to find that
> your car wouldn't start because the engine was stolen?
> 

I would probobly feel a hell of a lot poorer...   a gas tank is about
50$ in a junkyard.   An engine... more!

Seriously though, my other brother, DARRELL, left his VW on the same
street...  someone stole the radiator out of it....  try finding a VW
radiator in a junkyard  :-)    I DARE YOU !

JD
-- 
********************************************************************************
* John D Mooney               Delco Electronics                 General Motors *
* ------------------ jdmooney@kocrsv01@delcoelect.com -------------------------*
*  Opinions expressed are MINE...             NOT necessarily  DE's or GM's    *

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101629
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: bullet proof luxury sedans

In article <1pnigoINN5in@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> chsu@mtl.mit.edu (Charles H. Hsu) writes:
>I am interested to find out if there is any domestic car manufacturer
>(especially GM and FORD) which produces "bullet-proof" luxury sedans.

I understand Caddy is working on one, double battery, super high perf
engine, more gauges, a bit 'stretched', etc, lots of communication equipment,
the works. Color selection is limited though. 

The problem is that the guy at 1600 Penn. Avenue is about to get it
(Pres. Clinton) (Last time it was a Lincoln, this time a Caddy). 

>I am just wondering if this so-called "bullet-proof" (perhaps reinforced
>windows, special materials for the body/engine/etc.) luxury car - Lincoln
>and Cadillac models - is readily available to the public.  

Not to my knowledge; I know GM does conversion work for things like 
hot climates (i.e. the Chevy Caprices sold to the Middle East) but 
things like that are always done by third parties, NOT the manufacturer.
Maybe you will need to buy a specific package that has beefed-up everything,
perhaps the police cruiser package on the Caprice/Crown Vic and start from
there. 

>Do we have
>to go through any special dealership to obtain these cars?  I would really
>like to hear from anyone who has experience with the "bullet-proof" cars.

"And I wuz drivin' along in my armored Seville STS and this punk pulls out
of nowhere with an RPG (Rocket Propelled Grenade) but the bulletproof
windshield stopped him" :-) Don't think many people on the net have a need
for bulletproof cars. 

Check with local armored service companies/security/bodyguard places. They'd
know best. I think your average luxury car dealer will have a coronary if
you told them "I'll take the blue Caprice, with options FZ01 (Fuzzy Dice),
PR11 (power everything), and AR007 (Armor). 

>Any information regarding the dealers and after-market shops that have
>"bullet-proof" Lincoln's and Cadillac's is greatly appreciated.  You may
>email me at chsu@mtl.mit.edu or post the message in this newsgroup if
>you believe other netters might be interested as well.  BTW, same information
>on Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Lexus, and Infiniti luxury sedans is needed
>as well if you have it.

I believe an article on the conversion process appeared in the car press within
the last few months.

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101630
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

In article <C4wJGq.A40@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>No. At six years, you are nearing the end of the design life of the
>vehicle, when everything should be breaking. At that point, the
>driving habits make more difference than the actual reliability
>of the vehicle, so the data becomes unreliable for drawing conclusions,

Bad driving habits can damage a car in a couple of months, not 6 years.

If that were not the case, everyone would be driving fleet rental re-solds...

And while you are considering things (factors in stat terms), how about
city vs. highway driving ratios, owner vs. dealer service, extreme weather
or environment, adherence (sp?) to maintenance schedules, whether the car
has ever been in an accident, number of different drivers of the same car
in a family, whether the car is garaged, warmed up, ...

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101631
From: tobias@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Tobias)
Subject: Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000

In rec.autos, CPKJP@vm.cc.latech.edu (Kevin Parker) writes:
>   I'd like to get some feedback on a car with most bang for the buck in the
>$13000 to 16,000 price range. I'm looking for a car with enough civility to be
>driven every day, or even on long trips, but when I hit the gas, I want to feel
>some acceleration.  Handling is important also, as are reliability and pretty
>low maintenance costs.  A stylish appearance is nice, but I don't want a car
>that is all show and not much go.  Even though many of the imports are fast, I
>don't really want a turbo, and I never have cared for the song sung by a four
>clyinder.  I'd prefer a v6 or v8 for the engine.  If you have any suggestions,
>Kevin Parker

     There's only one car that really fits your needs. It's spelled:

			  5.0 LITER MUSTANG

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101632
From: finnegan@invader.navo.navy.mil (Kenneth Finnegan)
Subject: Re: 5W30, 10W40, or 20W50

As an additional data point, I have run Castrol 20W50 exclusively
in the following cars: 75 Rabbit, 78 Scirocco, 76 Rabbit, 78 Bus,
70 Beetle, 76 Bus, 86 Jetta GLI.  I've never had an oil-related
problem.

Disclaimer:  It gets mighty hot down here.

Kenneth
finnegan@navo.navy.mil

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101633
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

dunnjj@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (DUNN  JONATHAN JAMES) writes:
>ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) writes:
>>Cup holders (driving is an importantant enough undertaking)

>This is a good idea - so you can carry your (non-alcoholic) drinks without
>spilling or having someone hold on to them.

I agree.  Six hour long stretches behind the wheel really make me
thirsty, especially for something with caffeine.  I consider it a
failing of my car that it has no cup holder nor anywhere to put a cup
holder.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101634
From: jahonen@cc.lut.fi (Jarmo Ahonen)
Subject: Re: What is " Volvo " ?

boyle@bbsls23.bnr (Ian Boyle) writes:


>740 Turbo in UK was good for 124mph. Useful for blowing away VW Beetles, though I
>believe the Beetle corners better. 

>I can say without any doubt that I have never been blown away by any Volvo, ever.
>I've been blocked into a few car parks though by shit-head Volvo owners who 'only thought they'd be a few minutes'. This does not happen with the owners of any other makes of car.

>Not sure how long the small shit-box Volvos last - too damn long. The worst car I ever drove was a hired 340. In power, handling and ride it was reminiscent of something
>from the 50s, without the character. The 340 only ceased production a couple of years back. I've only been a passenger in the big Volvos, but that was enough. I ought to go
>for a test drive because they offer some neat gifts.


Oh, well... I have to admit that the most disgusting feature of
Volvo's is their marketing. It looks like Volvo uses something like
"Do you dare to risk your family in any car?" attitude, which is quite
annoying in the long run.

But now Volvo has produced a new  good car, the Volvo 850. Front drive,
2.4 L 20 valves motor, completely new chassis etc. Even the British magazine
"CAR" liked it (and believe me, that is quite much for a Volvo). And
the American magazine "Road & Track" said that "This is not your uncle
Olof's car", and in a positive sense.

But in any case, I'd still like to own the 960 estate. Strong, tank-like
chassis, 3.0L inline six, rear drive. :-) :-)

BTW, the only car drivers who have blocked me are Land Rover or Jaguar
drivers... :-) :-) :-) :-)

What? You mean what I drive? A cheapo Japanese (a Toyota) of course,
I do not have money for a *car*. (like BMW, Merc, Jaguar, Saab 9000, 
Volvo 850 (or 960), etc)
If I had the money, I would have *bad* problems deciding which one
to buy :-) :-) :-).





























Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101635
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: Re: Photo radar (was Re: rec.autos: Frequently

In article 2211@viewlogic.com, brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:
>
>In article <1993Mar20.050303.8401@cabot.balltown.cma.COM>, welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:
>
>|> Q:  What is Ka band radar?  Where is it used?  Should a radar detector be
>|>     able to handle it? 
>|> 
>|> A:  Ka band has recently been made available by the FCC for use in the US
>|>     in so-called photo-radar installations.  In these installations, a
>|>     low-powered beam is aimed across the road at a 45 degree angle to the
>|>     direction of traffic, and a picture is taken of vehicles which the
>|>     radar unit determines to have been in violation of the speed limit.
>|>     Tickets are mailed to the owner of the vehicle.  Because of the low
>|>     power and the 45 degree angle, many people believe that a radar
>|>     detector cannot give reasonable warning of a Ka band radar unit,
>|>     although some manufacturers of radar detectors have added such
>|>     capability anyway.  The number of locales where photo-radar is in use
>|>     is limited, and some question the legality of such units.  Best advice:
>|>     learn what photo radar units look like, and keep track of where they
>|>     are used (or else, don't speed.)
>
>Photo radar and mailed tickets make no sense at all. Speeding is a moving 
>violation, committed by the operator, not the owner. The owner may be a 
>rental agency, a dealer, a private party, or a government agency. As long
>as the owner has no reason to expect the operator will be driving illegally
>or unsafely, the owner cannot be held responsible for what the operator does.
>The car may even have been driven without the owner's knowledge or consent. 
>I can't believe a mailed ticket, where the driver is not identified, would 
>stand up in court. This is obviously a lazy, cynical, boneheaded, fascist 
>way to extort revenue, and has nothing to do with public safety.
>
>- BK
>


We had those f*****g photo-radar things here in Sweden a while ago.
There was a lot of fuzz about them, and a lot of sabotage too (a spray-can
with touch-up paint can do a lot of good...).

Eventually they had to drop the idea as there were a lot of court-cases
where the owner of the car could prove he didn't drive it at the time
of speeding.

I especially recall a case where it eventually proved to be a car-thief that
had stolen a car and made false plates. He, ofcourse, chose a license number
of a identical car, so the photo seemed correct...

In conclosion: Photo-radar sucks, every way you look at it!

/ Markus 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101636
From: eric@sad.hp.com (Eric Lucas)
Subject: Clifford Delta car alarm?


  Just found a great deal on a Clifford Delta car alarm, $450 installed.  
Comes with glass break sensor, motion detector, and shock detector.  Does 
anyone have one of these alarms?  Are they any good?  From the looks of it, its
about the best on the market for the price.  It's also on sale, so that's 
another reason to get it.  I think I'll be saving almost $200.  Any opinions?

Eric Lucas


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101637
From: Sang-Yoon Oh <so0z+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Jeep Grand vs. Toyota 4-Runner

>In article <1pq29p$29p@seven-up.East.Sun.COM>
jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM >writes:
>>
>>Any reason you are limited to the two mentioned? They aren't really at
>>the same point along the SUV spectrum - not to mention price range.
>>How about the Explorer, Trooper, Blazer, Montero, and if the budget
>>allows, the Land Cruiser? 
> 
>Any advice on HOW to buy a Land Cruiser? My local Toyota dealer says they
>get two a year, and if I want one I can just get on the waiting list.
>Forget about a test drive or even kicking the tires.
>And if they are that rare, I doubt there is much of a parts inventory on
hand.

Land Crusier is just simply nice with shit-load of power and room.
Fully stocked, it cost ~$40,000.  I think it is worth the money.
Only problem is when you get into accident(it doesn't usually break down
unless you forget to get a oil change for 30000 miles or something
stupid like this), body parts and other parts are very hard to locate. 
Parts are over priced also.  One of my friend had accident in past snow
storm and he is still waiting for front bumper and passenger side fender.

Well, if you test drive Land Cruiser, all other SUV look like toys.
One of magazine writer called it "Land Bruiser".  

If you have $40,000 to spare for SUV, get Land Cruiser and forget Lange Rover.

--Sang


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101638
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR

In article <1993Apr6.035020.16730@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>miles, a rare screw up by Honda.
>Both the GTZ and GSR are flawed cars. The performance enthusiasts would take
>the GTZ and the CR purchase would be the GSR.
>


The CR purchase would be the Ford Probe GT.

john


-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101639
From: tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

CHINTS@ISCS.NUS.SG writes:
> Here are "another" ten reasons why we should all love CR
> 10. Car salesmen love their new car buying service
> [...]
> 7. Car Salesmen/rec.auto readers turned into "expert" statistics critics
> [...]
> 5. Lucky owners of CR unreliable cars who say "Mine never had a problem"
> 4. Those same owners joining the sceptics a few months later
> 3. And later subscribing to CR and taking it soooo seriously
> 2. And later on buying a CR "idealized family sedan"

And my number 1:

1. The spectacle of the religious fervour of the CR "true believers".

-- 
[ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
[       "stick your index fingers into both corners of your mouth.  now pull ]
[          up.  that's how the corrado makes you feel."  -- car, january '93 ]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101640
From: charlesw@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Charles Wilson)
Subject: Re: Experience/opinions sought, diesel engines

In article <91321@hydra.gatech.EDU> jkg@jmp.com writes:
>Apologies if this is a FAQ (is there a FAQ posting for this group? I
>am an infrequent reader of rec.autos, so I can't remember).
>
>I am in the market for a used Chevy Suburban, and have observed that
>prices for models with diesel engines run about $1000-2000 less than
>comparable models with a gas engine.
>
>There has to be a reason for this.
>
Yes, there is:  consumer confusion.  In the early 80's with the
fuel crisis, etc., everyone wanted better fuel mileage.  Diesel fuel
was the cheapest fuel available and usually provides better mileage
than comparable gasoline engines.  So, GM decided to conver their
350 gas engine into a diesel engine (I think was a 5.7 liter).  Big
mistake.  The engine was not redesigned, but converted.  The engine
could not handle the higher compression, etc.  Lots of problems with
these cars.  This thew up a big red flag to the casual observer --
DON"T BUY A DIESEL.  THEY ARE BAD.  This was a gross generalization.

Ask yourself this question -- if your livelihood depended on driving,
LOTS of it, would you use a dependable or undependable (but cheaper
in the short run) vehicle?  What do Greyhound busses have in them?
Trailer Trucks?  Even Train Locomotives?  Are these gasoline engines?
No, they are diesel.  Tractor trailer truck manufacturers provide a
500,000 mile warrantee with they vehicles.

I own an `82 Diesel Suburban.  The 6.2L diesel is a GREAT engine.
Just keeps going.  It was more expensive (when new) than the gasoline
engine vehicle was.  The only problem with diesel engines is that 
when they need to be rebuilt, they are expensive.  In a gas 350
engine, you will pay about $1000 for a rebuild.  Diesel 6.2L is about
$2000.  But then again, the diesel engine lasts about twice as long
and gets about 50% better mileage.  A carburator for a gasoline engine
costs about $100 to rebuild (or less).  A rebuild of the fuel injection
pump on a diesel will cost about $500 (or more).  But then again,
you never need a tune-up.

If you're looking at a rebuilt 6.2L, I'd say you got a great deal.
Check to see if the fuel injection pump was rebuilt also.

Good luck.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101641
From: jwg@sedv1.acd.com ( Jim Grey)
Subject: Re: Necessity of fuel injector cleaning by dealership

In article <1993Apr2.174850.6289@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> prm@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (paul.r.mount) writes:
>
>In your experience, how true is it that a fuel injector cleaning
>will do much more good than just using detergent gas.   While I
>agree that a clogged fuel injector would darken my day, how clogged
>do they get, and is $59 a good price (or can I do it myself by buying
>a can of ____ (what?) and doing ___ what?


A "fuel injector cleaning" at the dealer is probably little more than
them opening your gas tank, dumping in a bottle of fuel injector cleaner,
and sending you on your merry way $59 poorer.  Go to KMart and buy the
cleaner yourself for $1.29.
 
Just because you dealer sez you need it, don't mean it's necessarily so.
Be suspicious.
 
jim grey
jwg@acd4.acd.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101642
From: tommy@boole.att.com (Tommy Reingold)
Subject: RFD: rec.autos.saab

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION

This is a request for discussion on the creation of a newsgroup
concerning Saab cars.  It will allow participaants to exchange
information on purchasing, maintaining, repairing, and outfitting
Saabs.

Group Name:

	rec.autos.saab

Status:

	Unmoderated

Rationale:

	There may be enough people with Saab cars or interested in
	buying a Saab or interested in knowing more about Saabs for any
	reason to justify such a new newsgroup.  The recent growth of
	the net could improve the turnaround time between posing a
	question and receiving answers from the community.

Discussion:

	Comments on this proposed new newsgroup should be posted to the
	USENET Newsgroup "news.groups".  If the reader is not able to
	do so, comments may be e-mailed to the proposer, at the address
	below.

Voting:

	If no problems arise, voting will start 1 month from the
	posting date of this RFD.

Proposer:

Tommy Reingold          tommy@boole.att.com
-- 
Tommy Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101643
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: AudiWatch Update (Tm) #11

In article <1993Apr2.194838.13476@news.cs.brandeis.edu> andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:
>In article <1993Apr2.181037.11188@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
>>powell@interlan.interlan.com (Glen D. Powell) writes:

>>The kind of corporate raiding apparently undertaken by VW is shameful.
>
>Agreed.  However, the particular execs had been working with Iggy for
>many years and had left GM Europe to go to Detroit.  With their raison
>-andy

I was out of date.  VW is stealing execs directly from Opel,
independent of Lopez.  Shameful.

-andy




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101644
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: Quick question

In article <1993Apr5.211457.12789@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
> How do you take off the driver side door panel from the inside
>on an '87 Honda Prelude?  The speaker went scratchy, and I want
>to access its pins.
>

There is something going on here.  It seems that once a month, the VW
group must have get a specific detailed question about Hondas.  I
would like to ask that next month we get one about Hyundai instead of
Honda.  Thank you.

-andy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101645
From: mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Wayne Blunier)
Subject: Re: male/female mystery [ Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time ]

bets@chester.ksu.ksu.edu (Beth Schwindt) writes:

>>This has me thinking.  Is there a biological reason why women can't put
>>their keys in their pants pockets like men do?  I have two pockets on the
>>back of each of my pants.  I put my keys in one and wallent in another.
>>Many of the pockets even have a botton on them so I can close them securely.
>>Everything is that much simpler for me.  Why can't women do the same?
>>Is is biological (ie, not enough room for a bigger bottom plus keys and
>>a wallet) or is it the way they are raised by the parents? 

>I've found that it has to do with the way women's clothes are made.
>If you put keys in the front pocket of women's jeans or slacks, you
>get a bulge that also tends to make it impossible to sit down because
>they stick you constantly.  ditto in the back pocket.

>Also, try *looking* at the back pockets of women's jeans and compare
>them to the back pockets on men's jeans.  They are usually (if you buy
>jeans that you expect to last for any length of time) about half the
>size.  There flat out isn't *room* for a wallet or a bunch of keys.

>Besides which, where would men put all their crap if their wives
>didn't carry purses? :-)

The same place single men do, wallet in back pocket, comb in other
back pocket, keys in front pocket, knive in other from pocket, pen
in shirt pocket, or front pants pocket.  Or do married men start
carrying around a bunch of stuff to keep there women happy?

>Beth
Mark B.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101646
From: dbak@elm.lle.rochester.edu (Douglas Baker)
Subject: Performance of new Mustangs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


	Does anyone know the performance ratings for a 1992 or 1993
5.0 L HO Mustang LX like the 0-60 time 1/4 mile and top end ???
Also can you tell me which magazine where these #'s come from so I
can look them up if possable ????  If you could the year and month and
eveen page # if you have it.

						Thanks,
						Doug

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101647
From: <RSM2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: US-Made M-B SUV

Mercedes-Benz announced yesterday its plans to begin building sport-utility
vehicles in the US by 1997.  They are targeted at the Jeep Grand Cherokee
et al. and will reportedly sell for less than $30,000.

Did anyone see a picture?   Is it the G-wagon (Gelaendewagen) currently
available in Europe (and in the US by grey-market) or is it an entirely new
vehicle?  Any details would be appreciated.

Dick Meyer
Applied Research Laboratory, Penn State

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101648
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: US-Made M-B SUV

In article <93096.101507RSM2@psuvm.psu.edu> <RSM2@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Mercedes-Benz announced yesterday its plans to begin building sport-utility
>vehicles in the US by 1997.  They are targeted at the Jeep Grand Cherokee
>et al. and will reportedly sell for less than $30,000.
>
>Did anyone see a picture?   Is it the G-wagon (Gelaendewagen) currently
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There is a picture in the May 1993 edition of European Car (although,
it may not be on the shelf yet).

Some things that the article says:

	- prototype has front wheel drive (first front drive
	  for Mercedes since the beginning of WWII)

	- wheelbase 3.15m
	- 7 seater
	- they claim that the price will be about the same as a
	  Renault Espace or Chrysler Voyager (DM 50,000)

Looking at the picture (slightly disguised) it looks like the Ford
Aerostar, to me.

>available in Europe (and in the US by grey-market) or is it an entirely new
>vehicle?  Any details would be appreciated.
>
>Dick Meyer
>Applied Research Laboratory, Penn State

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101650
From: ari@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ari Ollikainen)
Subject: Re: 5W30, 10W40, or 20W50

In article <jgladu-060493121851@128.249.27.63> jgladu@bcm.tmc.edu (grungy/John F. Gladu) writes:
>In article <1993Apr6.130550.13550@cs.tulane.edu>,
>finnegan@invader.navo.navy.mil (Kenneth Finnegan) wrote:
>> 
>> As an additional data point, I have run Castrol 20W50 exclusively
>> in the following cars: 75 Rabbit, 78 Scirocco, 76 Rabbit, 78 Bus,
>> 70 Beetle, 76 Bus, 86 Jetta GLI.  I've never had an oil-related
>> problem.
>
>Add mine to that list:  '71,'72 SuperBeetles; '68,'69 Bugs; '61 dddPanel;
>(cringe) '87 Toyota Tercel (It's my WIFE's car, honest:-).  I'm still
>chicken about running it in the '90 Vanagon - that's got Castrol 10W40 in
>it.

I don't understand this last statement about the '90Vanagon...Our '90Vanagon
Owner's Manual RECOMMENDS 20W50 !!

Ari Ollikainen(former VW fanatic: 62Bug, 62Bug+Porschepower, 64.5Porsche356SC,
68BugAuto-Stick, 69Camper, 71Camper, 73Westfalia, 73VWPorsche914/2.0,
81Westfalia, 85Vanagon, 85Westfalia...and now only 90VanagonCarat)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101651
From: U09579@uicvm.uic.edu
Subject: 1989 Honda CRX for sale

My friend, David Gordon wants to sell his 1989 Honda. Some of the details of th
e car are as follows:

             Five speed
             A/c, AM/FM/Cassette stereo
             ps/pb
             Rear window defroster
             EXCELLENT CONDITION

Asking 6400.00 OBO.

Please call him at (708) 257-0518.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101652
From: sekell@bb1t.monsanto.com
Subject: Re: Necessity of fuel injector cleaning by dealership

In article <1993Apr6.131018.12873@acd4.acd.com>, jwg@sedv1.acd.com ( Jim Grey) writes:
> In article <1993Apr2.174850.6289@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> prm@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (paul.r.mount) writes:
>>
>>In your experience, how true is it that a fuel injector cleaning
>>will do much more good than just using detergent gas.   While I
> 
> A "fuel injector cleaning" at the dealer is probably little more than
> them opening your gas tank, dumping in a bottle of fuel injector cleaner,
> and sending you on your merry way $59 poorer.  Go to KMart and buy the
> cleaner yourself for $1.29.

This should not be the case if they are at all reputable. Fuel injector 
cleaning is done properly with a can of injector cleaner solvent which is
hooked up to the fuel system under high pressure. The car is actually run on
the solvent during the cleaning process. The equipment to properly do this is
pricey, and generally not something the average home mechanic has. The solvent
itself is not very expensive ($5-$8) and you could probably make up a hose to
fit your system and do it yourself, but I didn't tell you that... :-)

Not many in-tank cleaners are worth wasting your money on. There has been a 
discussion of these products on here from time to time, and Chevron Techron
(not Pro-Gard with Techron) is generally regarded as the best. It is, however,
a bit more than $1.29 a bottle. IMHO, it will not substitute for proper
injector cleaning if they are really crudded up. You'll have to decide if the
$59 price is a better deal than spending your time and/or buying equipment to
do it.
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Scott Keller	+1 314 537 6317	    The Agricultural Group of Monsanto Company 
  sekell@bb1t.monsanto.com  	KA0WCH		packet: ka0wch@k0pfx.mo.usa.na

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101653
From: nill.toulme@datadim.uu.holonet.net (Nill Toulme)
Subject: used Taurus SHO purchase

Quoting Jeffrey J. Nucciarone's (nucci@microwave.gsfc.nasa.gov) article 
<C4G8Hv.Cs4@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov> of 04-06-93, in pertinent part:

 JJ>   I am considering buying a used '90 Taurus SHO.  The car in 
 JJ> question has 37k miles. I took it for a test drive the other day
 JJ> and a few questions came up.
 JJ> 
 JJ> . . .
 JJ>   Second, is there anything I should specifically look for in an 
 JJ> SHO of this vintage? Anything I should specifically ask abt?  
 JJ> (Brakes, cluthch, etc.)  I noticed on the drive the clutch engagemen
 JJ> point seemed a little high; since all my other cars are auto-tragics
 JJ> I'm not sure abt this point. I had my foot firmly planted on the
 JJ> brake when I started it up. There was a bit of a pop in the pedal
 JJ> soon after the engine started. This also occured on a few T-bird SC'
 JJ> I test drove. Was this the ABS self test?
 
Brake rotors and the clutch are the main things.  There has been a clutch 
replacement program; you might check to see if the car is still eligible, 
as it is a change well worth making.  You can also swap the cruddy cable 
shifter for the newer rod shifter, also a change worth making, but that'll 
cost you some $$.

My brakes usually do one wibble-wobble on startup, so that is probably 
normal.  Didn't know they had a self-test, that's interesting.

What kind of tires does the car have on it?

---
 * WinQwk 2.0b#131 * For a good time dial 7000 on your SHO. *
                                                                                           

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101654
From: mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

>My '66 Ford has vent windows operated by a crank, just like a window 
>(only it opened out, like a normal vent window). My '70 F100, my
>dad's '84 Bronco, and pretty much every truck I've seen that's 
>worth riding in has vent windows.
>
>Does that mean that I'm not a young feller anymore? :-)
>
>				James
>
>James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 

I don't understand the fascination with vent windows. They create a tremendous 
turbulence and noise that makes even a simple connversation impossible at 
speeds above 40mph. The current flow-throuh ventilation, if designed right, 
are far more superior.

Bijan

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101655
From: mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

Not exactly dumb, but who remebers the tachometer on the 69 or 70 Firebird 
bulging out of the _hood_ right in front of the driver. Neat place but I love 
to know what the elemnts did to its internals after a few years. Also, does 
the speedomete pointer on many US cars have to be 3 feet long?. 

Bijan

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101656
From: hacker@cco.caltech.edu (Jonathan Bruce Hacker)
Subject: Re: Was "Re: Safety": From how far can you see a car ?

ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:


>>.... These
>>lit up cars make non-illuminated things LESS visible (like pedistrians and
>>bikes). Hopefully we're not going to mandate DRL's for people and bikes 
>>too.

Well, DRL's are already mandatory for motorcycles...




























































































-- 
Jon Hacker                         |  Get the OS/2 2.1 March Beta CD-ROM 
Caltech, Pasadena CA               |  for $15 
hacker@tumbler-ridge.caltech.edu   |  Call 1-800-3-IBM-OS2

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101657
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

In article <1993Apr6.185328.24947@news.cs.brandeis.edu> andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:
>In article <1993Apr6.180456.17573@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr06.133319.7008@metrics.com> tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>>>CHINTS@ISCS.NUS.SG writes:
>>>> Here are "another" ten reasons why we should all love CR
>>
>>Or the spectacle of "Macho Real Men" who would never bother to read the
>>magazine but are more than apt to criticize it.
>>
>
>But that's the point.  We _do_ read it, or at least we did.  Then we
>found that their recommendations were useless and uninformed.  Then we
>write lists.  The CR flame war is so easy to start because they are so
>wrong and claim to be so right and so thorough.
>
>-andy
>
>

Ok if you are so right, name a few good examples that were brought up.


john
-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101658
From: behanna@phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: CAR INSURANCE !!! HELP

In article <C4x6yq.5L4@news.claremont.edu> ochaine@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ollie 'North' Chaine) writes:
>
>HELP! my car insurance has been cancelled for the second time in a row!
>I still haven't gotten in touch with my agent from AAA because "she's
>out for the week" but my mom said that I got a call saying that my insurance
>was going to be cancelled because of an accident ( not even a fender-bender) 
>that was never declared or anything. Besides the fact that i have no idea how they found out about this, the only
>other thing that could bug them is that I have 1 ticket but I told them
>about it and they said that it wasn't a problem.
>If I go to another insurance, I know I will end up paying more (b/c I already
>shopped around for this one) and I can't afford to pay for the insurance
>especially since I still haven't gotten the $3000 the two insuance companies
>are supposed to refund me. I just got a new Saturn SL2 and can't afford the
>car payments and the insurance, but I bought the car having gotten a QUOTE
>from State Farm which they later went back on. 
>PLEASE HELP ME! what legal rights do I have? Can I make State Farm who originally 
>gave me the quote give me that rate (they made a mistake after I signed all
>the papers, I did not give any false evidence)? How can I get my money back
>for the car if I can't pay for the insurance? I'm deperate!!!
>						Ollie

	I just went through this mess in New Jersey (I'm still waiting for a
refund as well), namely, that the original company made a mistake and left me
in the lurch.  My recourse was through NJ's insurance dept. Office of Consumer
Protection.  You should have a similar office in your state.  Make use of it.

Good luck,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - pending delivery
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101659
From: finnegan@invader.navo.navy.mil (Kenneth Finnegan)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

In article <1993Apr6.180456.17573@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr06.133319.7008@metrics.com> tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) writes:
|> >CHINTS@ISCS.NUS.SG writes:
|> >> Here are "another" ten reasons why we should all love CR
|> >> 10. Car salesmen love their new car buying service
|> >> 2. And later on buying a CR "idealized family sedan"
|> >
|> >And my number 1:
|> >
|> >1. The spectacle of the religious fervour of the CR "true believers".
|> 
|> Or the spectacle of "Macho Real Men" who would never bother to read the
|> magazine but are more than apt to criticize it.

Hey, I'm a "Macho Real Man" and I DO read it.  So I can criticize
it all I want, especially since I pay for the publication. (They
accept no outside advertising, don't you know....)

|> John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
|> "To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
|> something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
|> wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\

Relying on Consumer Reports to pick your automobiles is like
letting Field & Stream select your living room furniture.

Kenneth
finnegan@navo.navy.mil

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101660
From: andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner)
Subject: Re: LH car order delay

[]

	"I read an article in the 3/25 Chicago Tribune stating that
	Chrysler is having problems addressing the demand for the 3.5L
	engine for it's LH cars.  Can anyone post how long they are
	waiting for an ordered car or how long they have been told
	they'll have to wait??"

Ordered mine December 30, got it nine weeks later.  But the dealer said
that *new* orders were being held up -- he didn't expect to see any
more 3.5L-engine LHs for awhile.

  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101661
From: rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ronald.j.deblock..jr)
Subject: Re: male/female mystery [ Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time ]

In article <1pq8tkINNbek@chester.ksu.ksu.edu> bets@chester.ksu.ksu.edu (Beth Schwindt) writes:
>
>Besides which, where would men put all their crap if their wives
>didn't carry purses? :-)
>
>
>Beth
>

My wife rarely carries a purse, so all of her crap ends up in my pockets!


-- 
Ron DeBlock  rdb1@homxb.att.com  (that's a number 1 in rdb1, not letter l)
AT&T Bell Labs   Somerset, NJ  USA

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101662
From: michal+@cs.cmu.edu (Michal Prussak)
Subject: "Illegal" tint windows

I know it's a long shot, but maybe someone went through this and will have
some comments to share.

The story is this: I bought a car out of state, and I'm trying to get
the safety inspection in Pennsylvania. The problem is that the car has 
aftermarket tint on all windows except the windshield. The tint is rather
weak, and you can clearly see the inside of the car through the tint.

The inspection garage said that they won't pass it unless I get a
waiver from the state police. So I went to the state police - the
officer told me that aftermarket tint is illegal, and I can get a
waiver only for a pre-84 car or for a medical reason. I asked him to
show me the section of the vehicle code that says it's illegal.  He
showed it to me and the paraghaph said that you can't have tint, if
you can't see the inside of the car because of the tint. When I told
him that you can in fact see the inside very well, he shut the book
and said "It's just illegal, and in fact we can have someone give you
a ticket for it right now." Well, won't argue with that...

Since the vehicle code says it's OK as long as you can see through the
tint, I'd like to keep it (I'll re-read the vehicle code in the
library).  I'd also like to get some sort of paper from the police
that says it's OK, so I can get the inspection, and so that I won't
get in trouble for the tint later on. I also wouldn't mind registering
a complaint against that officer - he really pissed me off.

So does anyone have any experience getting that sort of a paper from
the police, especially in Pennsylvania? Does anyone have any experience
registering a complaint against an officer? I called the station 
later on today, but they basically said there is no place where I
could register a complaint against an officer... And if I do decide
to keep the tint and get a ticket anyway, how much of a chance do
I stand to succesfully appeal the ticket in court?

Any comments about it will be welcome!

Michal


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101663
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

In article <1993Apr6.194738.20021@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:

[blah blah blah]

>Ok if you are so right, name a few good examples that were brought up.


let's create a new group:  rec.autos.CR-is-right-no-its-not-yes-it-is-oh-yeah-
my-father-can-lick-your-father-.......


:-)


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101664
From: jwl@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (james.w.lee..iii)
Subject: Re: new saturn argument

In article <C50p1M.21o@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
> 
> ok, how about this to argue about.  why does the sl2 have a much lower base
> price than the sc2???  it's over 1k cheaper(i forget the exact amount).
> doesn't it cost more to have the extra doors/windows/locks/motors etc. that 
> are in the 4 door????  perhaps it is just a marketing deal....people want the
> 2door, so they will pay the extra 1.2k???


The SC1/SC2 has a shorter wheel base than the SL/SL1/SL2/SW1/SW2, just a 
thought. Ithink your right though......

-- 
James Lee  @ A.T.& T. Bell Labs
   Murray Hill, N.J. 07974
  Room 2A-336    201-582-4420
        att!conceps!jwl

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101665
From: dennisk@cs.uoregon.edu (Dennis Kennedy)
Subject: '72 Chevelle SS forsale

I don't want to sell this car, but I need money for college.
1972 Chevelle Super Sport
Rebuilt 402, four speed, 12 Bolt positrac
Numbers match
110,000 original miles
no rust
Looks and runs excellent
$5995 or best offer.
Call Dennis at (503)343-3759
or email dennisk@cs.uoregon.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101666
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: top 10 reasons why i love CR (not for the humor impaired)

In article <1993Apr6.195710.24227@cs.tulane.edu> finnegan@navo.navy.mil writes:
>In article <1993Apr6.180456.17573@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>|> In article <1993Apr06.133319.7008@metrics.com> tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>|> >CHINTS@ISCS.NUS.SG writes:
>|> >> Here are "another" ten reasons why we should all love CR
>|> >> 10. Car salesmen love their new car buying service
>|> >> 2. And later on buying a CR "idealized family sedan"
>|> >
>|> >And my number 1:
>|> >
>|> >1. The spectacle of the religious fervour of the CR "true believers".
>|> 
>|> Or the spectacle of "Macho Real Men" who would never bother to read the
>|> magazine but are more than apt to criticize it.
>
>Hey, I'm a "Macho Real Man" and I DO read it.  So I can criticize
>it all I want, especially since I pay for the publication. (They
>accept no outside advertising, don't you know....)
>
>|> John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
>|> "To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
>|> something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
>|> wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\
>
>Relying on Consumer Reports to pick your automobiles is like
>letting Field & Stream select your living room furniture.
>
>Kenneth
>finnegan@navo.navy.mil

No one should EVER rely on just a magazine to determine what car they
buy, I don't care what magazine. Btw, I subscribe to three other 
auto rags, I just think CU is getting a bum rap by these macho men
from hell who think real men should read . . . .

Statements like what you said above have no meaning. People keep on
saying "CU is only good for dishwashing detergent" or as you
said:"Relying on Consumer Reports . . . . is like. . ."  and that is
all they say. 

If there were as critical of themsevles as they are of CU maybe there
would be some real content.

john



-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101667
From: k8gj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: Impreza, Altima, or What??

A friend of mine is cnsidering buying a new car, and is considering the
Subaru Impreza or the Nissan Altima right now.  Which of these two cars
would you recommend.  We definately want an airbag and ABS, and room for
tall people and long legs.

If you have other suggestions for cars under $13K after dealing I'd be
interested
in you opinions as well.

PLEASE send replies to sem1@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu, no tthis address.

THANKS!
Scott


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101668
From: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com (Antonio L. Balsamo (Save the wails))
Subject: Re: Advise needed in buying Automobile


From: thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang)
Subject: Advise needed in buying Automobile

   >I am in search of a dependable automobile to purchase.  Below
   >are its requirements:
   >	5. V6 or above

       Most of the cars you mentioned are below (smaller than) V6 engine.

   Tony
--

                  +--------------------------------------+
                  |   Name: Antonio L. Balsamo           |
                  |Company: Digital Equipment Corp.      |
                  |         Shrewsbury, Mass.            |
                  | Work #: (508) 841-2039               |
                  | E-mail: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com  |
                  +--------------------------------------+

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101669
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Integra GSR

>
>Quad 4 reliable, yeah, what's your definition of reliable- if that's reliable,
>then its safe to say that integra engines in general are near perfect
> (not to mention, a hell of alot smoother and quieter - balance shafts.The Acura has the engine
>   wins the reliablity contest hands down. You can rev that car all day, everyday,
>and you'll never blow a hose, or crack the block, or anything else. (I speak
>from expierence!)
>I'm not saying the Quad 4 is a bad engine, but don't highlight reliability when you
>comparing it to a Acura Engine.  AND while the Integra costs alot more, it is a

a couple of things:  blowing a hose doesn't speak of engine reliability, and 
while it is true that quad4's have a problem with head gasket leaks, that was
a design flaw in the gasket and has been corrected.  also i know pontiac is
replacing head gaskets that leak for free for 6year/60k miles.  other than
that i have found my quad4 to be completely solid and the direct ignition 
system means no wires/rotor/rotor-cap to ever deal with.  also hydrolic lifters
mean no valve adjustments ever.  i'm not badmouthing the integra engine, i just
think you are going overboard on slamming the quad4.  you are quite correct
that the integra engine is quieter, although i would not say smoother, my
quad4 loves to rev, especially at the high-end.  do you have any evidence
of blocks cracking on quad4s?  i have not heard of this.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101670
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000

In article <33759@oasys.dt.navy.mil> tobias@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Tobias) writes:
>In rec.autos, CPKJP@vm.cc.latech.edu (Kevin Parker) writes:
>>   I'd like to get some feedback on a car with most bang for the buck in the
>>$13000 to 16,000 price range. I'm looking for a car with enough civility to be
>>driven every day, or even on long trips, but when I hit the gas, I want to feel
>>some acceleration.  Handling is important also, as are reliability and pretty
>>low maintenance costs.  A stylish appearance is nice, but I don't want a car
>>that is all show and not much go.  Even though many of the imports are fast, I
>>don't really want a turbo, and I never have cared for the song sung by a four
>>clyinder.  I'd prefer a v6 or v8 for the engine.  If you have any suggestions,
>>Kevin Parker
>
>     There's only one car that really fits your needs. It's spelled:
>
>			  5.0 LITER MUSTANG


not!  sorry, he said cvility, long trips, reliability, and low maintenance cost!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101671
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: Necessity of fuel injector cleaning by dealership

In article <1993Apr6.131018.12873@acd4.acd.com> jwg@sedv1.acd.com ( Jim Grey) writes:
>In article <1993Apr2.174850.6289@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> prm@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (paul.r.mount) writes:
>>
>>In your experience, how true is it that a fuel injector cleaning
>>will do much more good than just using detergent gas.   While I
>>agree that a clogged fuel injector would darken my day, how clogged
>>do they get, and is $59 a good price (or can I do it myself by buying
>>a can of ____ (what?) and doing ___ what?
>
>
>A "fuel injector cleaning" at the dealer is probably little more than
>them opening your gas tank, dumping in a bottle of fuel injector cleaner,
>and sending you on your merry way $59 poorer.  Go to KMart and buy the
>cleaner yourself for $1.29.

Personally, i wouldn't use the $1.29 product from KMart. I knew about
this previously, but this past weekend on PBS's MotorWeek Pat Goss 
(their resident tech type) discussed these products, and recommends
not using them (i.e, the non-isopropyl alcohlo based injector cleaners).

Supposedly only the isopropyl based cleaners actually remove moisture
from your fuel tank as they clean your injectors.  And although the 
others (ethyl based) do clean injectors they also cause rubber 
components in the fuel system to deteriorate, and they don't mix well
with water to help remove it from the fuel system.

I use a product recommended by VW called 44K (by BG Products, Inc.).
It cost more about $14.00, but it is supposed to do the job without
the potential harmful side effects, and its results are supposed to 
last from 2k to 4k miles. I have also used Chevron's Techtrolene (sp?).

I can't say that i have noticed any difference using either, since i 
only use these product as a preventative maintenance item.

> 
>Just because you dealer sez you need it, don't mean it's necessarily so.
>Be suspicious.
> 
>jim grey
>jwg@acd4.acd.com

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101672
From: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Re: $ 80 SVX OIL CHANGE

In article <C518F0.9I7@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>, swdwan@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Donald Wan) writes:
|>  My friend brought a subaru SVX recently.  I had drove it for couples times and I
|> think its a great car, esp on snow.  However when she took it to a local Subaru
|> dealer for a oil change, the bill came out to be about 80 dollars.  The dealer
|> told us it is because to change the oil filter on a SVX it is necessary to
|> disassemble a metal cover under the engine and that took an hour of labour.
|> At first, we think we are being ripped off so she phone to a dealer in Toronto
|> but found out the they are charging roughly the same price.  So is there any
|> SVX owner out there that has the same problem ?  And if the oil change story is
|> true, then the engineer of Subaru looks pretty stubid to me. By the way, the car
|> looks great.
|> 

Labour prices for car service are very expensive in Toronto compared to other
parts of Ontario.  For example, there are places in Ottawa that still charge
"only" $40/hour.  I've seen a couple of places charging $60/hour.  The cheapest
I've heard in Toronto is $70/hour.

|> SWD Wan.
|> 

-- 
Doug Zolmer           Internet: dwjz@bnr.ca         Disclaimer: My opinions only
Bell-Northern Research Ltd.  Ottawa, Ontario, Canada         | Conform:- Moooo!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101673
From: mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Wayne Blunier)
Subject: Re: 5W30, 10W40, or 20W50

zowie@daedalus.stanford.edu (Craig "Powderkeg" DeForest) writes:

>If you're planning on making long drives, the 20W50 is probably fine
>(esp. in the summer) in your 10W40 car.  But if you're making short drives,
>stick to the 10W40.

Several years ago GM was having trouble with the rings sticking on the
5.7 diesel.  They traced a cause to the use of 10W-40 oil.  They would
not honor warranty work if 10W-40 was used (if my memory serves me).
5-30, 10-30 or 20 50 was OK'd though.

Mark B.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101674
From: celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste)
Subject: Re: male/female mystery [ Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time ]

In article <1pima2INN180@gap.caltech.edu>, wen-king@cs.caltech.edu
(Wen-King Su) wrote:
> 
> In article <1993Apr1.191826.28921@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:
> 
> <apparently you're not a woman - my husband hates the auto door locks
> >features, but forgets that besides families with children, a woman
> <feels safer in a car that locks easily (in addition to watching around
> >& checking out if anyone's near me when I get to my car - never park
> <in a secluded spot, etc - have my keys ready to open the door so I'm
> >not fumbling in my purse looking for them ....
> 
> This has me thinking.  Is there a biological reason why women can't put
> their keys in their pants pockets like men do?  I have two pockets on the
> back of each of my pants.  I put my keys in one and wallent in another.
> Many of the pockets even have a botton on them so I can close them securely.
> Everything is that much simpler for me.  Why can't women do the same?
> Is is biological (ie, not enough room for a bigger bottom plus keys and
> a wallet) or is it the way they are raised by the parents? 

Women's pants rarely have pockets and most, when they do, are too
shallow to use!

I is very important for a woman to have her keys in her hand when
she goes from building to a car. It is protect herself from
would be assilants by broadcasting that this is someone who
as a definite place of safty (ie a locked car!).

Puting keys and walet looks ugly! It breaks the lines and makes
you rear look wide as a cows!

 Also, to have the habits that
work for any clothing situation, the pruse functions no mater
what you are wearing! (even nude or a bikni)

A women's suit coat is lucky to have 2 pockets (2 on the outside,
none on the inside). I have men's coats that have as much as 6
pockets! This is definitally not fair!!!

As one that wears both men's and women's clothes, I can tell you,
women's clothes have few if any funtional pockets!

When dressed as a man, I put my wallet on my inside coat pocket and
my keys in a coat outside pocket. It is much more covenent
than the pants pockets and looks better.

Having a car that unlocks quickly and locks back fast is
paramout to a woman's safty. Men don't see this as a problem.
A woman is aware of this every time she goes out! (i.e.
Image some red necks yelling at you "We are going to FUCK YOU!"
and the out weight you by 20 lbs and have 3 inches in hight
on you!)

If you want to find out why a women does something, LIVE AS ONE!

Celeste

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101675
From: kurt@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Kurt Henriksen)
Subject: BRAKE ROTORS...CROSS DRILLING...312 702 8323



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101676
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: Saturn's Pricing Policy

In article <1993Apr5.230808.581@cs.brown.edu> cs012055@cs.brown.edu (Hok-Chung Tsang) writes:
>Moreover, if Saturn really does reduce the dealer profit margin by $1000, 
>then their cars will be even better deals.  Say, if the price of a Saturn was
>already $1000 below market average for the class of cars, then after they
>reduce the dealer profit, it would be $2000 below market average.  It will:

>1) Attract even more people to buy Saturns because it would SAVE THEM MONEY.

>2) Force the competitors to lower their prices to survive.

but what is Saturn's motivation here?  they're already selling every
car they make, with multiple shifts in the plant.  given this, what
possible motivation could they have to lower prices?

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101677
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Subject: Re: new saturn argument

In article <C50p1M.21o@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>
>ok, how about this to argue about.  why does the sl2 have a much lower base
>price than the sc2???  it's over 1k cheaper(i forget the exact amount).
>doesn't it cost more to have the extra doors/windows/locks/motors etc. that 
>are in the 4 door????  perhaps it is just a marketing deal....people want the
>2door, so they will pay the extra 1.2k???

Ok, here's what I understand:

The SL/SL1/SL2/SW1/SW2 was meant to compete with the following cars:

Honda Civic
Toyota Tercel (SL,SL1)
Toyota Corolla (SL1,SL2)
Nissan Sentra
Mazda 323/Protoge'
Subaru Loyale/Impreza
Isuzu Stylus
Geo Prizm
Ford Escort
Mercury Tracer
Mistubishi Mirage
Plymouth/Dodge Colt


Their core competition is the Civic, Corolla, and Sentra.  Most of the other
models are in the same class, but aren't the first cars you would think of.
I threw in the Escort/Tracer because it has a good amount of Japanese
technology and has similar reliability stats.  I didn't include domestic small
cars such as the Cavalier, Sunbird, Shadow, Sundance, Tempo, and Topaz, since I
think Saturn is going after cars that have at least some degree of Japanese
roots.

The SC1/SC2 was meant to compete against the following cars:

Toyota Paseo
Honda Civic Si/Civic Coupes/del Sol Si
Nissan NX1600/NX2000
Mazda MX-3
Isuzu Impulse
Geo Storm
Ford Escort GT


If you look at the prices of these cars, they're more expensive than they're
4-door counterparts.  The is good reason for this.  It is a more upscale and
trend-driven market.  Even though many of these models are based on sedan
platforms, their interior, etc. is good enough to warrant slightly higher
prices.  Here are some of the platform derivations I can think of:

Tercel -> Paseo
Sentra -> NX1600/NX2000
Civic -> del Sol
323 -> MX-3 (not sure on this one)
Stylus -> Impulse/Storm

To illustrate, a Tercel starts at around $8000, while the Paseo starts at
around $11,000.  Even a 4-door Tercel will cost less than a 2-door Paseo.  Now,
you might be saying that the Tercel doesn't offer the power that some 4-doors
offer.  What I mean is that there is no 4-dr Tercel with a comparable
powerplant as its sport coupe derivative.  Let's take another example: the
Isuzu Stylus XS and Impulse XS/Storm GSi.  Both have the same powerplants (a
1.6L 140hp engine), but the smaller 2-dr coupes are generally more expensive.
Again, this is because the two-door sport coupe market is a more
fashion-oriented and trend-setting segment.  People are willing to pay more
money for this type of car.  


In short, even though the SC1/SC2 may be smaller, hence "less" car, it's market
orientation dictates a slightly higher price than its mechanically equivalent
sedan (SL1/SL2) version.

I hope this clears things up a bit......


Mihir Shah
	 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101678
Subject: apology (was Re: Did US drive on the left?)
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)


In a previous article, dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu ("Daniel U. Holbrook") says:

>>i'm guessing, but i believe in the twenties we probably drove mostly down
>>cattle trails and in wagon ruts.  I am fairly sure that placement of the 
>>steering wheel was pretty much arbitrary to the company at that time.....
>
>By the 1920s, there was a very active "good roads" movement, which had
>its origins actually in the 1890s during the bicycle craze, picked up
>steam in the teens (witness the Linclon Highway Association, 1912 or so,
>and the US highway support act (real name: something different) in 1916
>that first pledged federal aid to states and counties to build decent
>roads. Also, the experience of widespread use of trucks for domestic
>transport during WW 1 convinced the government that good raods were
>crucial to our national defense.  Anyway, by the 20s there were plenty
>of good roads, at least around urban areas, and they were rapidly
>expanding into the countryside.  This was the era, after all, of the
>first auto touring fad, the motel, the auto camp ground, etc. Two good
>books on the subject spring to mind - Warren Belasco "America on the
>Road" (title may not be exact - author is) and another called "The Devil
>Wagon in God's Country" author I forget.  Also, any of John Flink's  or
>John Bell Rae's auto histories.

i'm sorry, as i have never heard of any of this.  Guess they don't think
it's important enough for a classroom, and i was going on what i've seen
in pics.(some movies--real nice scource there, huh?)  I just always 
recall thinking that GOOD roads of asphalt didn't come around til the
Interstate Hiway Act, or whatever they called it(60's?), and that wood and
cobblestone roads were fairly rare up through the depression, except in
overpopulated places like England and US cities.  Obviously netwisdom
says i am wrong.

>As to placement of the steering wheel being arbitrary, by the early
>teens there were virtually no American cars that did not have the wheel
>on the left.  In the early days, cars had the wheel on the left, on the
>right, and even in the middle, as well as sometimes having a tiller
>instead of a wheel.  This was standardized fairly early on, though I
>don't know why.

i knew it was almost always done, but i knew of no reason that it might not
be done the other way by DeSoto for their car.  Seems like they had some
other deviations from the norm too, at times :-)

>Dan
>dh3q@andrew.cmu.edu
>Carnegie Mellon University
>Applied History
>
>"World history strides on from catastrophe to catastrophe, whether we
>can comprehend and prove it or not."
>               Oswald Spengler

thanx for corrrecting me, and again, i aplogize for harebraned post.
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101679
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (CarolinaFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Most bang for between $13,000 and $16,000

jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:

>In article <1993Apr6.200200.29965@progress.com> damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio) writes:
>>
>>rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>>
>>>>     There's only one car that really fits your needs. It's spelled:
>>>>
>>>>			  5.0 LITER MUSTANG
>>
>sports car, butm my mothers '88 GT was considered a sports car.
>I still can't quite figure that out, since when do plastic add-ons
>make a car a sports car?

>Jeff

	We're talking about insurance agents from Bumf**k Illinois (ST.FARM is
HQ'ed in Bloomington).  What the hell do  they know about cars...  Both are
sports cars...  :-)












-- 
Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois/Urbana Champaign mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************************************************************
*"Because he was human      Because he had goodness      Because he was moral*
***************They called him insane..."  Peart "Cinderella Man"*************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101680
From: mark@ve6mgs.ampr.org (Mark G. Salyzyn)
Subject: Re: Do it yourself front-end alignment possible?

davidd@lonestar.utsa.edu (David . De Leon) writes:

>In article <113364@bu.edu> selick@csa.bu.edu (Steven Selick) writes:
>>I've got an 86 Plymouth Colt that I'd like to do a front-end alignment
>>on. Is it possible to do without all of the fancy schmancy gadgets the
>>pros have? How?
>>-Steve
>NO.NO.NO.NO.
>If you do so, you are putting the lives of others on the road at consider-
>able risk.  Why do you think mechanics are ASE certified??  Anyway you put
>it, you need those *fancy scmancy* gadgets...

Awww, right, you want all the home mechanics lined up against a wall and
shot eh?

Bull Pucky you chicken! Read the service manual and get your head out of the
sand! Certainly there are tools for the job that are cheaper than an alignment
rack, that do the job as competently (albeit, not as swiftly), if not
more accurate, due to the natural pride an owner/mechanic places on his work.
You can do an `acceptable' job of aligning a car using simple tools and
some imaginative work that would *never* have the effect of endangering
anyones life. The worst that happens is that your tires wear oddly (well,
you could have the wheels aiming TOTALLY pigeon toed and not be able
to steer the car, raise your hands those that think their vision is
so poor that they would screw up this badly!)

I bet you are one of those people that feels that honing a cylinder wall
with sand paper will kill millions of people. It aint magic. Go take the
certification course, and look at the people that have never learned to add
in their whole life that are taking the certification!

BTW, I am disgusted at the Colt (and some of the other Chrysler offerings)
because they go out of alignment if you sneaze at them. My '84 Chrysler
Laser (Similar to the Daytona, a reskinned Colt) needed a realignment every
3 months ... Bolt a good grade 12' 2x4 to each wheel, using a carefully welded
spacer jig. Measure toe in, adjust to manufacturer specs. Camber a bit more
difficult to adjust and measure ... I used a micrometer to measure the
space between the rim and a funky bent up pipe that could be placed on
upper and lower portions of the rim on the inside of wheel (hard to explain).
This same tool could be used instead of the 2x4s.  I had made these tools up
*right* after the last alignment done professionally so I had a reference that
the original poster might not ...

Ciao -- Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 101681
From: jobin@server.uwindsor.ca (Scarecrow)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

seningen@maserati.ross.com (Mike Seningen)
> 85 Mph speedos -- esp. the electronic ones.
>
> The digital dash of the 87 cougars with the large analog clock in
> the middle of the dash -- everything was digital except the stinking clock?

  The funny thing about the digital dash (87 T-bird) with the 85mph speedo 
limit was that if you pressed the button to convert to kilometers it would 
read all the way up to 187kph.  At this point the stock anemic 302 would get 
short of breath.  This of course was equivalent to about 116mph (hehe).I bet 
I really coulda confused this thing if I'd toyed with the engine and rolled
the stupid thing (the digits were limited to 199). 

  I've gotta agree with ya on the analog clock w/digital dash though.  My
girlfriend had a '85 TurboCoupe with a digital clock and analog gauges/radio.
Go figure...


usenet@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu (Usenet Administrator)
> I love the keyless entry on my T-Bird; it's great for those times that
> I had to stop to put air in my tires. I could get out and lock the door
> with the engine running while I ran around to air up the tire. It also

  I had a great feature on my T-bird....  I could pull the key out and 
leave the ignition on.  This scared the hell out of me the first time it
happened but I kinda grew to like it.  Musta been a bad key copy or 
something.

Mark Novakovic
-----
"There is no god up in the sky tonight      __ _
no sign of heaven anywhere in sight"  -nin /_/\/\ "Jesus loves ya. Blow me."
   _  _         __  _      _               \_\  /  -- In tribute to my former
  / \/ \   /||\    / \|\  / \\         /   /_/  \  area supervisor Jim Bonneau
  \ /     / || \__/   | \/   \\       /    \_\/\ \ and the infamous Bonneau Math
   \\    /__||_/  \   |_/\   / \  /  /        \_\/ (demoted not departed)
 \_/ \_//   || \__ \_/| \ \_/   \/ \/ Ministry

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102733
From: buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck)
Subject: Re: Do trains have radar?

hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
> I came upon a 
> train parked on a trestle with its locomotive sitting directly over
> the northbound lanes. [...] Just as I passed from underneath the trestle,
> my radar detector went into full alert - all lights lit and all chirps,
> beeps, and buzzes going strong.
> Could this have been caused by the train's radio or what?

recently-manufactured locomotives have wheel-slip detection systems
that use frequencies shared with police radar (i forget which band).
these will set off your radar detector if you get close enough, though
i believe the range is pretty short.

BTW, railroad police sometimes use radar to check for speeding trains
(just like regular police check for speeding cars), although the
intent here is for safety, not revenue collection (unlike with cars).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102734
From: hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

In article <zdem0a.734809554@hgo7>, zdem0a@hgo7.hou.amoco.com (Donna Martz) writes:

> >So, I block the would-be passers. Not only for my own good , 
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >but theirs as well even though they are often too stupid to realize it.
>  !!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!!
> >As a rule of philosophy, I don't feel particularly sorry when somebody gets 
> >offed by his own stupidity, but It does worry me when some idiot is in a 
> >position to cash in my chips, too.
> >                                                           H.H. Mayo
> 
> Well, Aren't we just Mr. Altruism himself!!   Just what the world needs,
> another frustrated self appointed traffic cop.


Well, if you want to stick the nose of your car up the ass of a 50 foot semi, I
suppose it's your neck, however, I'm not going to let you kill me in the bargain.
If you get frustrated by somebody delaying your inevitable death due to less that
wise driving practices, then TOUGH!!!





"Thank God for the Fourth of July, for it yearly rids the earth of a considerable
load of fools"

                                                              Mark Twain


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102735
From: rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ronald.j.deblock..jr)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr14.171718.18852@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> sheinfel@ssd.comm.mot.com (Aviad Sheinfeld) writes:
>
>>	Do you think I can use a electric drill( change to a suitable
>>bit ) to turn it out?  If I can succeed, can I re-tighten it not too
>>tight, is it safe without oil leak?
>
>Tighten the bolt to the specified torque in your service manual.  That
>way it won't leak, strip, break, etc. (hopefully :-) )
>>
>>Thank you very much in advance------  Winson
>
>Aviad

You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in
place of the bolt.  I have one on both of my cars.  There have been no
leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars).
-- 
Ron DeBlock  rdb1@homxb.att.com  (that's a number 1 in rdb1, not letter l)
AT&T Bell Labs   Somerset, NJ  USA

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102736
From: ljbartel@naomi.b23b.ingr.com (Les Bartel)
Subject: Re: Aftermarket air-conditioners

In article <1qcaueINNmt8@axon.cs.unc.edu> Andrew Brandt writes:
|> I looked into getting a/c installed on my 1987 Honda CRX Si.
|> The unit is $875 plus shipping, installation is like 5 1/2 hours on
|> top of that.  This is a hunk of change.
|> 
|> Does anyone know *any* place that does aftermarket a/c installation
|> (not with a Honda a/c unit, but some third party unit).
|> 
|> I cannot seem to find anyone who can put a third party a/c unit in a
|> Honda.  I am in No Carolina, so I would prefer some place nearby, but
|> any references would be handy.
|>
|> Thx, Andy (brandt@cs.unc.edu)

Sorry I can't help you with your question, but I do have a comment to
make concerning aftermarket A/C units.  I have a Frost-King or Frost-Temp
(forget which) aftermarket unit on my Cavalier, and am quite unhappy with
it.  The fan is noisy, and doesn't put out much air.  I will never have
an aftermarket A/C installed in any of my vehicles again.  I just can't
trust the quality and performance after this experience.

 - les

-- 
Les Bartel			I'm going to live forever
Intergraph Corporation		... or die trying
Electronics Division		
ljbartel@ingr.com
or ljbartel@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
(205) 730-8537

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102737
From: hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--


> I agree that if traffic is all blocked up and you want to pass, you might
> not feel like moving over for someone behind you because you don't want to
> give them that one car-length, when they should just wait like you are.
> BUT, if you're one of those people that just sit's behind the person, and
> doesn't flash them with the high beams, or pull left and flash them, or
> ride their bumper, or otherwise tell them that you *do* in fact want to 
> go by, and you're not just drafting them, then get the hell out of the 
> way of someone who will!  I especially hate it when you flash someone at
> the back of a line and they don't 'pass it on'.  
> And there's also the issue of some cars being more intimidating to get 
> people out of the way than others...  (For instance '85-'86 GTs look 
> pretty mean in a rearview mirror at night with the foglights on...  :^)
> There have been plenty of times when I've broken up a pack that a 
> second-in-line hyundai has been behind for miles...  You just need to
> know how to get their attention...


I'd like to see you use this method on a couple of semi drivers. If they see you,
they usually acknowledge by sticking their hand out the window with their middle
finger extended. Because it is also obvious to them that there is no clear lane
ahead.  



                                                      H.H.M.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102738
From: tpaquette@ita.lgc.com (Trevor Paquette)
Subject: My day in court: RESULTS


  A while back I asked for help in defending a traffic ticket I received.
 In short:
     The ticket was for not stopping at a stop sign. Given the conditions
   I could not stop in time and decided instead of sliding right through the
   intersection, I would complete my right-turn and avoid a possible accident.
   A police cruiser happened to be approaching the intersection from my left
   and gave me the ticket.
     The officer said "The only reason that you even slowed down in the first
   place was that you saw me approaching, otherwise you would have bombed right
   through"


  I would like to thank all those who responded favorably to my request for
 help. To all of those who told me to bite the bullet and pay the fine:
 PHGHGHGHGH..

 The judge sided with me and decided that in this case "Not stopping" was the
 safest thing to do and found me NOT GUILTY.

  The officer's statement and my account of the conditions at the time (very
  slippery, backed by newpaper weather conditions) were the factors what made
  the judge decide on his verdict.


  Moral: If you have never been to court before and you think you have a case,
	 go for it. It is a very interesting process, and it is there for
	 your benefit. Exercise your rights.


 Trev
--
Name : Trevor Paquette       | Landmark/ITA             |  _\___ Fahrvergnuegen
Email: tpaquette@ita.lgc.com | Calgary, Alberta, Canada | /     \____
Visitor from CyberSpace      | (403) 269-4669           |/ G60       \
Renegade of Virtual Reality  | #include <disclaimer.h>  |\-O------O--/

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102739
From: larry@boris.webo.dg.com (Larry Rogers)
Subject: Re: Saturn 91-92 Manual Transmission Problem


I had exactly the same problem with a 1981 Horizon.  Third gear would
just disengage.  Engine would rev up.  Kind of disconcerting.

I sold that car quite a few years back but the memory of that tranny
sticks with me.  It also had a clutch chatter in first that the dealer
could not fix.  If the lemon law had been in place then, that car
would have been covered.

I have had several Jap cars since then (figuring the Horizon was my
contribution to the American Auto Companies), and have never seen any
bad behavior with the exception of a Toyota Tercel with a bit of
clutch chatter that they did fix on the first try.

Anyway, from that day forward, I have sworn that I would never
purchase another American car with a standard.  American manufacturers
don't have a clue on how to manufacture five speed transmissions and
have been doing the automatics much longer and on many more cars.
However, I hate automatics, so I am still buying Jap cars.

Not sure this is any help, but other cars do this too.

Cheers, Larry
--
    @@               Larry Rogers               *
   @@@               larry_rogers@dg.com        *   Big Brother
   @@@ &&&           larry@boris.webo.dg.com    *   is Watching
    @@ &&            Data General  508-870-8441 * 

The opinions contained herein are my own, and do not reflect the
opinions of Data General or anyone else, but they should.

"Sometimes we are the windshield, sometimes we are the bug"
   Dire Straits

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102740
From: sawicki@naspac.tc.faa.gov (Michael J. Sawicki CTA)
Subject: Regal fiberglass parts ??

 I have a 1982 Regal and I am interested in buying
a fiberglass hood, trunk, and bumpers for it.  Does anybody
know of a company who makes fiberglass parts for Regals ??


		Thanks in advance,


			-Mike


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102741
From: bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss)
Subject: Re: Do trains have radar?

In article <x!fvt=b@dixie.com>, jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
|> hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> > While taking an extended Easter vacation, I was going north on I-45
|> > somewhere between Centerville, TX and Dallas, TX and I came upon a 
|> > train parked on a trestle with its locomotive sitting directly over
|> > the northbound lanes.  There appeared to be movement within the cab 
|> > and out of curiosity I slowed to 85 to get a better look.  Just as I
|> > passed from underneath the trestle, my radar detector went into full 
|> > alert - all lights lit and all chirps, beeps, and buzzes going strong.
|> > I thought I had been nailed good but no police materialized.
|> 
|> Some, but not all, locomotives have doppler speedometers.  The radar head is 
|> mounted looking down at the ground (to minimize intereference sent and 
|> received) but looking tangentally at a wheel.  These are low power units
|> and typically won't trigger radar detectors unless an unusual situation
|> such as yours arises.
|> 
|> John
|> 
|> -- 
|> John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
|> Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
|> Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
|> jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
|> Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.


This makes sense(radar pointed down), because almost every train I pass head-on that triggers
my radar detector does so more just after I have passed the front of the engine.
I get a little of the reflections as I am approaching and the instant I get to
the side of the first engine the detector receives a fairly strong signal for
a short time. It happens with just about EVERY train I see.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102742
From: wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu (Bill Mayhew)
Subject: Re: electronic odometers (was: Used BMW Question ..... ???)

I consulted with someone working on an electronic odometer.  The
design was to use a microprocessor based system to write a somewhat
ofuscated pattern into an EEPROM.  The idea was to make the circuit
difficult to program arbitrary values into the EEPROM.  The
secondary purpose, acutally the primary purpose from the standpoint
of practicality, was to distributed the writes so as to avoid
exceeing the maximum number of writes fof the EEPROM being used.
The microprocessor also ignored pulses coming from the Hall effect
at a rate any higher than 110 MPH so as to make spoofing the reading
by bench pulsing at least somewhat undesirable.  This was for an
automobile that was not expected to ever exceed 110 MPH in
operation.  The case, of course, might not be the same for your
1993 RX-7!

The ECM modules of some cars do indeed store info about conditions
under which cars have been operated.  Since steering angle and
velocity data, etc is available it would not be difficult to
collect all sorts of interesting demographic information about the
drivers' use of the car.  I am not aware of any manufacturer
currently trying to enforce warranty restrictions based on reading
out use data from the ECM.  While it could be a potential invasion
of your privacy for manufacturers to have access to data about your
driving style, it could also provide valuable information from
actual field use conditions to help engineer more appropriate cars.
I personally wouldn't mind the dealer collecting my driving
demographics as long as it is done in an anonymous fashion.


-- 
Bill Mayhew      NEOUCOM Computer Services Department
Rootstown, OH  44272-9995  USA    phone: 216-325-2511
wtm@uhura.neoucom.edu (140.220.1.1)    146.580: N8WED

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102743
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NISSAN


In a previous article, smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris) says:


>or, here's an even better suggestion, why don't you guys go ahead and
>buy the rest of Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru) and put either an
>in-line 4 or V-6 into the LEGACY 4WD wagon.  I'd buy the Legacy in a
>minute if it had a Nissan engine instead of the Horizontal 4 that they
>seem sentimentally attached to.

What do you find so wrong with the flat 6 in the Subaru's, or the flat 4 for that
matter?
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102744
Subject: After-Market Cruise Controls: Specific Questions
From: MikeW@Canc.byu.edu (M.D. (Mike) Wieda)

Howdy,

I'm a little new to this newsgroup, but I would like to tap some of the
knowledge and expertise available here.

The Subject:  After-market cruise controls

The Background:
I recently broke my ankle in a road-bicycling accident (4 places, five 
screws, yuk! :-( ).  In two weeks I will be returning to Texas (my
home) from my school (BYU) in Provo, Utah.  As you can imagine, trying to
drive nearly 1300 miles with a broken right ankle isn't just the epitome of
a good time.  My car does not have a cruise control, so I would have to do
all the pedalling (ha ha) with my messed-up ankle.

My question:
What is the general opinion of after-market cruise control units?  I
realize that a cheap CC (cruise control) from, say, Pep Boys, isn't going to
be as good as a factory or professionally installed unit (if there is such a
thing).  And I uderstand that I probably can't expect much in the way of
accuracy, looks and that sort of thing;  But anything's gotta be better than
trying to drive with a hosed ankle.

I have a 1984 Jeep Cherokee, 4 speed, standard, 4*4, 2.5L engine with
kettering(sp?) ignition (y'know, distributor cap, rotor, that set-up--not
electronic.  Maybe you could've guessed it being an '84, but I'm just trying
to give information as completly as I can).

I found a CC unit for 80 bucks.  It seems to use the vehicles vacuum system 
instead of an electric servor/motor.  Is this good or bad?  If I did buy
this CC, which vacuum hose should I tap?

It has two speed sensors:  One magnetic, and one that gets a signal from the 
negative side of the distributor, kinda like a tach pick-up, or so I
understand.  I can use either one.  Which is best?  The manual says (I read
it in the store today) that the magnetic/axle set-up is more accurate, but
harder to install.  Is there really a big difference?

It has a sensor for the brake pedal, just like other CCs, but does NOT have a
sensor for the clutch pedal.  So if I wasn't paying real close attention I
might push the clutch in while the cruise is trying to get the speed up.  Which
would wind the engine up kinda high until I got my wits about me and turned 
the thing off.  I'm pretty coordinated, so this doesn't bother me, if it
were for my girlfriends car, *then* it would bother me, but I'm ok with it.

The installation also calls for an attachment to a steady-on brake signal
and a switched-on brake signal.  I think I can get a switched brake signal
from the correct side of the brake light blade fuse.  Am I right?  But I'm
not sure where to get the steady-on brake signal, or, for that matter, what
exactly it is?  Any ideas as to what the manufaturer wants and where to get
it?

I think I can figure the other things out.  Like how to hook-up the negative
side tach-type sensing gizmo and the cabin control unit, and the ground and
all that miscellaneous business.  But I need a little help with:

	1.  Is it worth the money and safety risk (if any) for such a
	    device?
	2.  Is there any particularly good after-market CC?
	3.  Are "professionally" installed CCs signifacantly better and
	    worth the cabbage?
	4.  If the unit I saw (sorry, no manufacturer or model number, just
	    that it is at Pep Boy and its $80) is sufficient for my simple 
	    needs, how do I get the thing installed properly (specifically,
	    the questions above)?

My father and I built a "Veep" (Volkswagen powered Jeep CJ-2A) when I was in
high school, so I consider myself fairly good with tools, electronics, and
cars.  So the installation doesn't scare me.  I just want to be certain that
I get the thing installed correctly as my Cherokee is just a wee bit more
complicated than my Veep. :-)

I appreciate your time in reading my post, and I would appreciate any
expertise or opinion anybody has on the subject.  If you would like to share
some of your wisdom, please email as I don't get over this group very often
(but I check my mail all the time).

Again, thanks for any help anyone may have.

Mike Wieda
Mikew@canc.byu.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102745
From: "Daniel U. Holbrook" <dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Did US drive on the left?

Rob Reilly:

>whips and their tempers. Initially, all cars were built with the driver's
>controls on the right because that's the way people drove buggies, so the

This is just not so - many of the earliest cars had their steering
controls in the center of the vehicle, and there is no discernible
pattern of left- or right-hand steering controls until a few years into
the 20th century, when, in America at least, left-hand wheels became the
pattern. The mule team (or horses, I imagine) explanation, however,
seems to have some merit.

Dan
dh3q@andrew.cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University
Applied History

"This coffee plunges into the stomach...the mind is aroused, and
ideas pour forth like the battalions of the Grand Army on the field
of battle....  Memories charge at full gallop...the light cavalry
of comparisons deploys itself magnificently; the artillery of logic
hurry in with their train of ammunition; flashes of wit pop up like
sharp-shooters." 
               Honore de Balzac, 30 cups/day.





Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102746
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: LICENSE PLATES NISSAN


In a previous article, edf003@marshall.wvnet.edu () says:

>Hi, I'm interested in getting the list for license plate numbers.  If anyone
>has a listing I'd appreciate getting a copy of it.  Thanks!
>
You must be _incredibly_ bored.  Have you considered reading the phone book?
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102747
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: Isuzu Amigo Opinions sought


In a previous article, sdexter@shl.com (Scott Dexter) says:


>I like the Amigo; I would like some feedback...
>
>Any and all feedback appreciated-


Yet another Jeep wannabe designed for yuppies who will never take it off road but want
to look "outdoorsey".
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102748
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: LICENSE PLATES




In a previous article, edf003@marshall.wvnet.edu () says:

>>Hi, I'm interested in getting the list for license plate numbers.  If anyone
>>has a listing I'd appreciate getting a copy of it.  Thanks!
>>
You must be _incredibly_ bored.  Have you considered reading the phone book?
-- 

-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102749
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Truck tailgates/mileage

In article <1993Mar30.203846.85644@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> jh03@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JUN HE) writes:
>In article <1993Mar26.221840.1204@nosc.mil>, koziarz@halibut.nosc.mil (Walter A.
> Koziarz) writes:
>>In article <51300059@hpscit.sc.hp.com> chrisw@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Chris Wiles) wr
>ites:
>>
>>
>>>      Consumers report did a study I think and found that most
>>>trucks got worse mileage with the tailgate off. The tailgates on the
>>>newer trucks actually help.
>>
>>oh, sure they do...  and replacing the front bumper and grille with a closet
>>door helps mileage *and* cooling.  *if* CR actually said that, then they have
>>bigger fools working for them than the fools that believe their drivel...  but,
>>who am I to argue this?  just someone that's been a pickup-driver for 20+
>>years, that's all.  forget the 'net', just take off the tailgate on hiway trips
>>since the nets aren't designed to nor capable of restraining a load in the bed
>>anyway.  around town, the tailgate will have a negligable effect on mileage
>>anyway.
>>
>>Walt K.
>>
>They may help to improve mileage in some cases, I believe. With the tailgate
>on the flow structure behind the cab may differ and the vortex drag may be
>reduced during high speed driving.

How about those toneau covers? I've been thinking of building one
from chipboard for roadtrips. Any comment on how they affect
mileage in highway travel?

Charles
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102750
From: Srinagesh Gavirneni <sg48+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: 86 chevy sprint

I have a 86 chevy sprint with a/c and 4doors. It's odometer turned 90k
and the sensor light started blinking. I went to the dealer and he said
it was a maintenance light saying I need to change the Oxygen sensor. He
said, It is to be changed every 30k, but since I bought the car when it
had 77k, I don't know if the same thing happened at 30k and 60k.  He
quoted $198 for the part and $50 to install it. The part cost $30
outside, but the mechanic I went to could not fix it saying the sensor
is placed too deep in the engine parts. He suggested I wait till it
malfunctions before I do anything.  If anyone out there owns a chevy
sprint, I want to know how they got their Oxygen sensors changed. Also,
did you face any problem with fixing it without the dealer's help. Also,
what are the results of the oxygen sensor malfunction. 
  Any help would be greatly apprecisted
   Thanks
      Nagesh

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102751
From: (Eric Youngblood)
Subject: Re: Old Corvettes / Low insurance?

In article <1993Apr15.011805.28485@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, swr2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT WARREN ROSANDER) writes:
|> In article <C5Csux.Fn1@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, gdhg8823@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (George Hei
|> nz) writes:
|> >After too many years of school I'm finally graduating and getting a real
|> >job.  Of course I am trying to make plans of how to spend all this extra
|> >money.  Right now I have an 89 accord, a good car, but not real sporty &
|> >I was thinking of selling it in about two years and dropping around
|> >$20k on a sports car of some kind.  After thinking about it, I may have a
|> >better idea -- I'll keep the Accord until it drops and buy the car I've
|> >always wanted -- a Corvette Stingray. My reasoning is that $8000 (accord)+
|> >$8000 (corvette) =$16000 is less than what I would spend anyway.
|> >
|> >Basically, I'm thinking of a late 70's, early 80's for around $7-$10k.
|> >My question is, what are good years to consider (for reliability, looks,
|> >horsepower -- in that order, believe it or not, horsepower is not a main
|> >concern, if I want to go fast, I get on my motorcycle) and what are
|> >good prices?
|> >
|> >Also, what would insurance look like?  I'm male, single, 23 (I might
|> >wait until I'm 25 to get the car = lower insurance). Would the fact that
|> >I mainly drive the other car lower it?  Is there some type of "classic
|> >car" or "rarely driven" insurance class for driving it under 10k miles
|> >per year?
|> >
|>     My dad has a 66 vette and its on what you say 'classic insurance'.
|>     Basically what that means is that it has restricted amount of driving
|>     time, which basically means it cant be used as an every day car and would
|>     probably suit your needs for limited mileage.
|> -- 


In addition to restricted mileage, many classic insurance carriers also require
that the vehicle be garaged when not in use.

$0.02

Ericy


      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*
      | Eric Youngblood                                             |
      | Bell-Northern Research    _                                 |
      | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~-                               |
      |                         \,  _}                              |
      |                           \(    +---------------------------|
      |                                 |   Peon w/o Email privs    |
      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102752
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <1993Apr15.135514.29579@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
(ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes:

>You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in
>place of the bolt.  I have one on both of my cars.  There have been no
>leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars).

Yes, but then someone would have no problem draining your oil in a parking lot.

all they have to do is reach underneath, turn a valve, and forget the trip 
home.
But there is less likelyhood they have a wrench with them.

I personally recommend, installing a 'special' locking drain plug to keep
vandals away. :---)

steve

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102753
From: dilmore@cray.com (Robert J. Dilmore)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <C5HqJ0.57@unix.amherst.edu> bhtulin@unix.amherst.edu (Barak H. Tulin) writes:
>I just started reading this thread today, so forgive me if it has already been
>mentioned.  But...what was the deal with Renault's putting the horn on the
>left-hand turn-signal stalk?  It was a button on the end, where the washer
>button would be on the wiper/washer stalk.  Could the Frenchies not figure
>out the wiring through the steering wheel, or what?

  Well, before we start calling the Engineering folks in France a bunch of
braindeads for this... 
  My 1979 Mercury Capri had this lovely feature. This was not the earlier
German variant but the newer one that was identical to the Mustang of 
current fame. I can't tell you how many times this feature pissed me off.
Come to think of it my brothers Zepher had this as well.

Robert Dilmore
dilmore@cray.com

>
>Going back to an earlier thread, imagine having to turn left, shift gears,
>flash a stray driver in the intersection with your left-hand high beam on
>the headlight stalk, AND, after the driver wouldn't move, having to honk the
>horn on the left-hand stalk!  Gives me the heebie-jeebies.
>
>--Barak
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102754
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick 'Open VMS 4ever' Colombo)
Subject: Re: Do trains/busses have radar?

In article <C5FqFy.Fpq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:
> In <1993Apr13.111652@usho72.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
> 
> 
>> While taking an extended Easter vacation, I was going north on I-45
>> somewhere between Centerville, TX and Dallas, TX and I came upon a 
>> train parked on a trestle with its locomotive sitting directly over
>> the northbound lanes.  There appeared to be movement within the cab 
>> and out of curiosity I slowed to 85 to get a better look.  Just as I
>> passed from underneath the trestle, my radar detector went into full 
>> alert - all lights lit and all chirps, beeps, and buzzes going strong.
>> I thought I had been nailed good but no police materialized.
> 
>> Could this have been caused by the train's radio or what?
> 
>

I don't know about trains, but I've saw a sign on the back of a
Greyhound bus that warns you that your radar detector may be set off.
It doesn't explain why, but it does set off my radar detector.

___________________________________________________________________________
*****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
*      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
*      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
*    Of course I speak for: Fermilab, Congress and the President... NOT!!!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102755
From: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Subject: Re: "Sprayed-on" Bedliner Info Wanted

In rec.autos, dennis@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Dennis Schloeman) writes:
xSorry to repost this again so soon, but
xthe information from my earlier post was
xdeleted from our system.
>
xI am looking for information concerning
x"sprayed-on" bedliners for pickup trucks.
xA company here does it using polyurethene
xbut they've only been around for 9 months
xso there's not much of a track record here.
xIs the sprayed-on bedliner any good?  How
xwell do they hold up over the years?  Any
xinfo would be appreciated.
x
xThanks.
x
xDennis
Do you have a Ziebart dealer in your area? They've offered spray
on bed liners around here for several years. If you do, see what
kind of a warranty they have. ( Unfortunately, I don't know anyone
who has gotten one so I can't help you there.) Also ask if they
can give you a list of references.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mack Costello <mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)
David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC    ___/-\____
Bethesda, MD 20084-5000   Phone (301) 227-2431          (__________>|

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102756
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <1qhs7dINNj2b@hp-col.col.hp.com> tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom  
Vervaeke) writes:
>    ... experience with Jeep service dept ...
>
While not exactly a service incident, I had a similar experience recently  
when I bought a new truck.

I had picked out the vehicle I wanted and after a little haggling we  
agreed on a price. I wrote them a check for the down payment plus tax
and license and told them I'd be back that evening to pick up the truck.  
When I returned, I had to wait about an hour before the finance guy could  
get to me. When I finally got in there, everything went smoothly until he  
started adding up the numbers. He then discovered that they had  
miscalculated the tax & license by about $150. He then said he needed  
another $150 from me. I said we had already agreed on a price and it was  
their problem, I wasn't giving them any more money. The finance guy then  
brought in the manager on duty who proceeded to give me a hard time. I  
reminded him that I was the customer and I didn't think I should be  
treated like that and that if he didn't back off he could forget the whole  
deal. He made some smart remark so I told him where he could stick it,  
snatched back my check and left. Needless to say, they were not pleased by  
the turn of events.

Early the next morning I got a call from the general sales manager wanting  
to know what happened. I related the story and he apologised profusely and  
asked if there was anything they could do to change my mind. I told him  
that if they gave me the truck for free I probably still wouldn't take it,  
that there were other dealers in town, I was a repeat customer of theirs  
and that they should learn how to treat customers,etc,etc...I was still  
pretty steamed about the whole affair. He gave me the line about hating to  
lose a customer and they would try to find a solution, etc, etc. I told  
him not to bother, thanks, I'd go somewhere else.

A couple hours later, the owner of the dealership called me, all  
apologetic, etc, etc, etc, and said that they would cover the $150 plus  
knock another $400 off the price of the truck. I told him I'd think about  
it and he gave me his private, direct phone number, his secretary's name,  
and assured me that they valued me as a customer, etc etc etc....

I thought about it for a few hours and discussed it with my wife and we  
decided, what the hell...that was a pretty decent deal, so I called him  
back and accepted his offer. When I went back the next day to pick up the  
truck, I received the royal treatment. Everyone seemed to know about the  
incident, even the lot boy. Everything went smoothly and I was out of  
there in my new truck in about 30 mins.

So, I guess I'm a reasonably satisfied customer. However, it should not  
have happened in the first place. I was a bit shocked to have a sales  
person talk to me like that. I don't expect them to bow and grovel, but I  
sure don't expect to be given a hard time either, esp. when it's their  
mistake.

Anyway, I'm happy with the truck and it turned out to be a couple hundred  
dollars under invoice and they paid most of the first year's license fee.  
I'm not sure whether I'll go back to that dealer, tho.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102757
From: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In rec.autos, boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
xIn article <1qgi8eINNhs5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> yiklam@unixg.ubc.ca (Yik Chong Lam)
x writes:
x>Hello,
x>
x>       Does anyone know how to take out the bolt under the engine
x>compartment?  Should I turn clockwise or counter?  I tried any kind
x>of lubricants, WD-40,etc, but I still failed!
x>       Do you think I can use a electric drill( change to a suitable
x>bit ) to turn it out?  If I can succeed, can I re-tighten it not too
x>tight, is it safe without oil leak?
x
xAssuming you don't have a Russian car with opposite threads, then
xyou turn counterclockwise. I would get some professional
xhelp here, you may not have located the draing plug and
xactually be trying to loosen something else.
x
xCraig
x>
x>
x>Thank you very much in advance------  Winson
x>
 This reminds me of the first time my cousin did an oil change on his
car. He crawled under, removed a bolt, drained the fluid, replaced the
bolt, then carefully poured in 5 quarts of oil. Didn't bother to
check the dip stick, just drove off. Didn't get too far till me found
out that he'd drained the 4-speed trans and dumped an extra 5 quarts
into the engine.:( MORAL: As Craig said don't be ashamed to get some
*in person* help the first time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mack Costello <mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)
David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC    ___/-\____
Bethesda, MD 20084-5000   Phone (301) 227-2431          (__________>|

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102758
From: bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.160922.8797@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1993Apr15.135514.29579@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
|> (ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes:
|> 
|> >You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in
|> >place of the bolt.  I have one on both of my cars.  There have been no
|> >leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars).
|> 
|> Yes, but then someone would have no problem draining your oil in a parking lot.
|> 
|> all they have to do is reach underneath, turn a valve, and forget the trip 
|> home.
|> But there is less likelyhood they have a wrench with them.
|> 
|> I personally recommend, installing a 'special' locking drain plug to keep
|> vandals away. :---)
|> 
|> steve

I was worried about someone stealing my oil once also. I finally 
decided to just have my drain plug welded shut. It works great !
I figure that when I add three or four quarts when the oil light
comes on every month or so that it's just as good or better than
the old wives tale of changing the oil AND filter every 3000 miles.
Works for me, I must say. 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102759
From: drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.160922.8797@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>
>In article <1993Apr15.135514.29579@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
>(ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes:
>
>>You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in
>>place of the bolt.  I have one on both of my cars.  There have been no
>>leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars).
>
>Yes, but then someone would have no problem draining your oil in a parking lot.
>
>all they have to do is reach underneath, turn a valve, and forget the trip 
>home.

Most cars have drain petcocks in the radiators, and I've never 
seen nor heard of a vandal opening one.  I imagine that there
would be an even lower risk with an oil plug because you have 
to crawl furthur under the car to open it.  

Car vandals are usually real traditional in their methods, and do things
that don't get them dirty, like keying your car, dumping sand, sugar
or mothballs in the gas tank, TPing it, etc.

-- 
Boycott USL/Novell for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit. | Drew Eckhardt
Condemn Colorado for Amendment Two.		       | drew@cs.Colorado.EDU
Use Linux, the fast, flexible, and free 386 unix       |  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102760
From: cm@cci632.cci.com (Carl Mercer)
Subject: 1986 Mazda forsale




For sale - Mazda 323

	1986 Mazda 323
	White exterior, Grey interior.
	75,000 miles
	Interior in very good condition.
	Exterior in good condition

	Pioneer DX 680 car stereo.
		- CD player
		- 18 FM presets, 6 AM
		- removable faceplate
		- seperate component speakers professionally mounted
		  in the doors.

The car has been well maintained.  I wax it often and keep the interior
clean.  Its a good running car with a solid body (no rust thru, tiny
spots of surface rust.  When I see a spot I touch it up.)  The stereo
makes the car.  I have had no mechanical problems with it.

I'm looking for $900.00 firm.  The car has an average wholesale value of 
about $900.00 without the stereo.  The stereo cost me $500.00 last July.

If you are interested, call or Email me at:

				Carl Mercer
				cm@cci.com
				(716) 654-2652
				(716) 359-0895 evening



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102761
From: klui@corp.hp.com (Ken Lui)
Subject: Re: LICENSE PLATES

In article <1993Apr14.143750.120204@marshall.wvnet.edu> edf003@marshall.wvnet.edu writes:
>Hi, I'm interested in getting the list for license plate numbers.  If anyone
>has a listing I'd appreciate getting a copy of it.  Thanks!

You can go to the DMV and ask for their listing.  Although I
don't know where you may actually buy a copy, you can use theirs
for your perusal.  In California, the listing of personalized
license plates run 3 volumes, each about 1.5" thick.  I hope this
is what you're asking for.


Ken
-- 
Kenneth K.F. Lui, klui@corp.hp.com                  3000 Hanover Street MS20BJ
Corporate Administrative Information Systems        Palo Alto, CA  94304   USA
Core Application Technologies                1(415)857-3230 Fax 1(415)852-8026

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102762
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.rist, another dealer service scam...


In a previous article, bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss) says:


>
>I was worried about someone stealing my oil once also. I finally 
>decided to just have my drain plug welded shut. It works great !
>I figure that when I add three or four quarts when the oil light
>comes on every month or so that it's just as good or better than
>the old wives tale of changing the oil AND filter every 3000 miles.
>Works for me, I must say. 
>

I did the same thing to my drain plug for the same reasons.  I was wondering
how you filled your crankcase though as I welded my hood shut also out of fear
that somebody might steal my air-filter.
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102763
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: Welcome to to the new reader

Archive-name: rec-autos/part1

[most recent changes, 15 March 1993: addition of alt.autos.karting -- rpw]

               === Welcome to Rec.Autos.* ===

This article is sent out automatically each month, and contains a general
description of the purpose of each of the automotive newsgroups, and
some suggested guidelines for discussions.  The keywords `Monthly Posting'
will always appear to make killing this article easy for users of
newsreaders with kill facilities.  This article is posted to all autos
groups, but followups are directed only to rec.autos.  If you don't
understand what this means, ask your system administrator for help, or at
least for copies of the newuser documentation.  Failing that, please
subscribe to the newsgroup news.announce.newusers and read the
documentation provided there.

Introduction to the Rec.Autos newsgroup hierarchy:

rec.autos.tech

is intended for technical discussions of automobiles, their design,
construction, diagnosis, and service.  Other discussions are largely
inappropriate, especially For Sale ads.

rec.autos.sport

is intended for discussion of legal, organized competition involving
automobiles.  Technical discussions are appropriate insofar as they apply
to competition vehicles.  Discussion from either of two viewpoints,
spectator and participant, is encouraged.  Arguments about sports cars are
largely inappropriate, as are most other discussions.  For Sale ads are
inappropriate unless they are for competition vehicles and/or equipment.
Discussions of illegal events are marginal; one should probably avoid
advocating breaking the law.  (remember, the FBI reads Usenet!)

rec.autos.driving

is intended for discussions related to the driving of automobiles.
Also, if you must discuss 55 vs. 65, or radar detectors, or <insert
your pet driving peeve> boneheads, do it here.

rec.autos.vw

is intended for discussion of issues related to the use and ownership
of automobiles manufactured by Volkswagen (this includes VWs, Audis,
Seats, etc.)  It was created on the grounds that the info-vw mailing
list was very successful.  It should not be presumed from the existence
of this group that it is appropriate to create many groups to cover many
different marques; groups specific to individual marques should only be
created on demonstration of sufficient interest, via some avenue such as
a mailing list.

rec.audio.car

is not properly part of the rec.autos.* hierarchy.  it is, however,
the correct place for discussion of automotive audio equipment, and
so is mentioned here.

rec.autos.antique

is intended for the discussion of older cars (usually more than 25 years
old, although this is not a hard-and-fast rule.)

alt.hotrod

is not part of the hierarchy, but also of potential interest to the
rec.autos reader.  it is gatewayed to the moderated hotrod mailing
list, and is for serious discussion of modifying and developing
performance vehicles.

alt.autos.rod-n-custom

also not part of the `official' hierarchy; devoted to that peculiar
American hobby of customizing older cars.

alt.autos.karting

for the discussion of the popular motorsport and hobby, karting.

rec.autos

is intended to capture discussion on all other automotive topics.


Crossposting:

Crossposting occurs when more than one newsgroup name is included on
the Newsgroups: line in the article header; such articles will appear
in all of the newsgroups listed.

Crossposting is one of the most misunderstood and misused facilities on
Usenet.  You should only post to a group because you feel an article is
appropriate; you should NEVER crosspost just to reach a particular
audience.  This distinction is subtle, but important.  Radar Detector
articles, for example, are more-or-less appropriate in rec.autos.  They are
almost never appropriate in sci.electronics or rec.ham-radio, and the fact
that you might want to reach the audience in sci.electronics or
rec.ham-radio is NOT adequate justification for posting to either group.

Crossposting between any or all of the rec.autos.* groups is usually
inappropriate; if you find yourself doing so, consider whether or not it is
truly advisable, before sending your article.  Consider setting Followup-To:
to point to only one newsgroup if you feel you must crosspost.

Crossposting between rec.autos.* and misc.consumers is chancy at best; in
particular flame wars over the speed limit in the US and/or the use of
radar detectors should NEVER be crossposted between any of these groups.

Most readers of sci.electronics and rec.radio.* couldn't care less about
the police radar and radar detector arguments that go on endlessly in
rec.autos.

It is an excellent idea to check the Newsgroups: and Followup-to:  lines of
articles before posting a followup.  In particular, be wary of posting to
misc.test, rec.arts.startrek.*, or talk.bizarre, or any combination of these
three.  The life you save may be your own.

Distribution:

There is a field in the header of any news article which allows you to
(partially) control where the article goes; it is called the Distribution
field.  It may be very useful for many reasons; it should also serve
as a reminder that news is a very large and widespread system.

The distribution of rec.autos.* is fairly extensive.  As of this writing, 
the Automotive newsgroups are known to reach most of Europe, Australia,
New Zealand, and some locations in Japan.  With this in mind, I offer the
following hints about use of the Distribution: field in your article
headers, and on article content.

1) Please take care not to send for-sale ads about clapped out Ford
Mavericks in New Jersey to France or California; i doubt that anyone in
either place will care, except for my girlfriend, who for some strange
reason likes Mavericks (but only 4-door Mavericks, at that.)

2) When posting technical questions, please include the market for which
your car was manufactured.  For example, there are a number of differences
between a European-market Ford Escort and a US-market Escort.  Likewise,
all 1750cc and early 2000cc Alfa Romeos reached the US with Spica Fuel
injection; European market cars usually got carbs (often Webers).  These
differences can be important to your readers; make your situation clear.
Failure to do so can lead to pointless flame wars and a significant
spread of misinformation.

3) Be careful about your capacities and specifications when posting;
in the US we get a mix of Metric and English system values, whereas
Europe is almost entirely on the Metric system.  A future edition
of this monthly posting will contain a list of commonly-used
abbreviations that may not be known in some places that rec.autos
reaches; this cuts both ways so let us not be parochial about it.

4) Use the Distribution: field to limit where your article goes, when
possible.  Within North America, the values na (north america), can
(canada), and usa may be used.  in addition, the two-letter state
abbreviations of the US are supported in some cases; e.g. if i wanted
to send an article only to New York and New Jersey, i could put
"ny,nj" in a Distribution field.  note that multiple, comma-separated
values are legal.  these distribution fields vary widely, however, so
you should check with your local sysadmin to find out what is likely
to be supported in your area.

The Dangers of Overgeneralization:

To amplify a warning from the distribution section of this article:
Be wary of making foolish assumptions about all cars, tires, etc.  What is
true for a 1973 Buick with a 455cid engine may be quite utterly wrong for a
1976 Honda with a 1200cc engine.  Headlight laws in Sweden are decidedly
different from those in Idaho.

The Need for Adequate Specification:

When you ask a question, please give a reasonable amount of information;
e.g., if you have a question about your Honda, please specify year,
model, engine size, etc.  Otherwise, most answers to your question may be
quite useless.


Concerning Lemons:

At one time or another, every auto manufacturer has manufactured a lemon or
two; even Honda admits to this.  Please don't waste everyone's time by
announcing to the world that your `brand x' automobile is terrible, so all
`brand x' automobiles are terrible, so no one should ever buy a car from
the `brand x' company.  Such articles are worse than useless, because they
cause substantial wasted bandwidth while carrying little or no useful
information.


Concerning Flames:

As much as we might wish it, a flame-free newsgroup is something that most
likely will never occur.  Here are some guidelines for flames and how
to deal with them (a list of flame-prone topics follows in the next section
of this posting):

If you post something truly obnoxious and inflammatory, don't imagine for a
minute that including the words `No Flames' will work.  It won't, and
you'll get exactly what you deserve.

If you're going to flame, you're more likely to get away with it if you can
cite a fact or maybe a well-known reference.  No one is likely to believe
bald, unsupported assertions.

Be careful about who you choose to insult.  Consider not insulting anyone.


Asking the Question:

It is a bad idea to post a question and end it with a phrase like `Please
send email, I don't read this group'.  It is a much better idea to
end the question with `Please send email, if there is sufficient interest
I'll summarize the results in a later posting.  I may miss posted responses
to this request'.

Answering the Question:

If someone wants to hop up their Yugo, don't tell them to get a Mustang.
Either be silent, or give them useful advice.  If someone wants advice on
defending a speeding ticket, don't tell them to obey the law next time --
it's offensive, presumes guilt which is not proven, and doesn't directly
address the original question.  In general, don't post in order to see
your words in print, and don't post in order to enjoy feeling smug and
self-righteous.


Stale and/or Inflammatory Topics:

Certain topics are considered stale by `old timers'; while discussion of
them is certainly ok, and new, factual information is welcome, ravings
about them are extremely tiresome, and may get the person who posts them
ignored altogether.  Some topics are naturally inflammatory; it is
difficult if not impossible to have meaningful discussion of them.  Some
of these topics include the following:

1)  the 55mph speed limit in the US: Pro and Con

2)  discussions about the morality and legality of the sale and usage of
    radar detectors.

3)  discussions over which radar detector is best.

4)  discussions over what is a sports car (this is one reason why
    rec.autos.sport is not a `sports car' group -- everyone would argue
    about what constitutes a `sports car'.)

5)  disputes over whether or not US Federal law protects the driver's
    right to own and operate a radar detector

6)  `Buy American' discussions

7)  `clever' bumper stickers and personalized license plates

8)  <insert nationality here> cars are terrible

9)  What kind of car did Maxwell Smart drive?
      [when I have a complete, accurate answer it will be added to the
          commonly-asked questions article which is also posted monthly.
          Until then, please don't waste bandwidth on this topic. -- rpw]



Please direct comments and suggestions about this article to:

     welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102764
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: Frequently Asked Consumer/Automotive Questions

Archive-name: rec-autos/part5

[this article is one of a pair of articles containing commonly
asked automotive questions; the other article contains questions
more geared to the automotive enthusiast, and so is not crossposted
to misc.consumers.  -- rpw]

   [changes as of 14 April 1993: revised brake fluid section, as
    non-silicone DOT-5 fluids are now apparently available -- rpw]

                 Commonly Asked Automotive Questions


Tire Questions:

Q:  What do the funny numbers on the sides of my tires mean?

A:  Typically, you will see something like 195/60HR14.  the 195 is the
    overall width of the tire in millimeters, the tread is usually
    narrower.  The 60 is the `aspect ratio'; it indicates the height of the
    sidewall of the tire relative to the overall width.  Our example tire
    has a sidewall height of 0.60 * 195 ~= 117 mm.  The 14 is the wheel
    diameter in inches; there are also some special tires called `TRX'
    tires which have three digit metric wheel diameter designations, like
    390, which is in millimeters.  The R means Radial, and the H is a speed
    rating indicating the highest speed at which the tire, when properly
    inflated and carrying an appropriate load, may safely operate.  Common
    speed ratings are S (112MPH), T (118MPH), H (130MPH), and V (up to
    150MPH.)

    Recent changes to the method for specifying tire sizes move the speed
    rating to a different part of the designation; you may therefore find
    designations like 195/60R14 85H; the 85 indicates the per-tire load
    associated with the speed rating -- exceeding this load in continuous
    operation at the rated speed is dangerous practice.  What follows is
    a table showing a number of `load indices' and corresponding maximum
    per-tire loads:

    Load Index       50   51   88   89   112   113   145   149   157
    Max Load (Kg)   190  195  560  580  1120  1150  2900  3250  4125

    Note that the usual mass vs. weight confusion occurs in this table.

    In some cases, the letters P or LT may be found in front of a tire
    size; the LT designation indicates Light Truck, and the P designation
    indicates Passenger car.  If no letter is given, then the application
    of the tire is Passenger car usage.  As far as I know, these letters
    only appear in the US market.  The LT designation is prinicipally of
    interest to owners of light trucks and other utility vehicles.  For
    the owner of a passenger vehicle, there is no meaningful difference
    between a tire with a P designation and one with no designation at
    all.

    If the aspect ratio is omitted, it is probably 80, but may be 78.

    Tires with an MS (mud/snow) designation may have their speed rating
    reduced by 20 km/h (about 12mph.)

    There is an additional set of ratings on tires for temperature,
    traction, and treadwear.  Temperature and Traction are graded
    A, B, and C (with A the best and C the worst); treadwear is
    a numeric rating.  These values are of limited value, as they
    are assigned somewhat arbitrarily by tire manufacturers and are
    thus not useful in comparing different brands of tires.

Q:  My car has tires with a funny size designation:  185/65HR390; can i put
    normal tires on the car?

A:  Your tires are called TRX tires; they were devised by Michelin.
    Because of a somewhat different bead design, they are incompatible
    with normal tires; Michelin used a different diameter wheel for them
    so that they could not be mounted on the wrong type wheel (and so that
    more conventional tires could not be mounted on TRX type wheels.)
    You will need to aquire different wheels to put a normal tire on your
    car; it is barely possible to fit normal tires on TRX wheels, and horribly
    dangerous to do so (the tires may simply peel off the rims in a corner,
    or possibly blow out at high speed.)  TRX type tires are becoming hard
    to find; in addition to Michelin, Avon makes suitable tires.  Goodyear
    has apparently discontinued their line of TRX tires.

Q:  Can I rotate radials from side to side, or rotate them only on one side
    of my car?

A:  Car and tire manufacturers have differing views on this subject; many
    say that swapping radials between the left and right hand sides of a
    car is now ok (this group includes Michelin and Goodyear); others
    (for example, Pirelli and Nokia) will void warranties if such swapping
    is done.  The best advice is to read your tire manual carefully before
    rotating your tires, and stick to the manufacturer's recommendations.

Q:  How many snow tires should I buy, and if I buy 2, which end of the
    car should I put them on?

A:  In short, 4, and both ends.  To explain, many drivers in areas that don't
    get excessive snow or who don't drive agressively (or at all) in snow
    conditions get away with only two snows on the drive wheels, but there
    are circumstances where this can be dangerous practice.  With a rear
    wheel drive car, you can choose between being able to start the car
    going (a function of the rear axle) or stopping and turning the car
    (a function of the front axle.)  In a front wheel drive car, you start,
    stop, and turn with the front end.  The primary risk of putting the
    snow tires on the front only is that if you have to put on the brakes
    while going downhill, you run a serious risk of going downhill backwards.

Radar Detectors and Speed Limits:

Q:  Why aren't there any comments on Radar Detectors and Speed Limits
    in this Q&A posting?

A:  Because questions about detectors and speed limits crossposted between
    misc.consumers and rec.autos.* always start long, tedious, and pointless
    flame wars.  If you want to talk about either of these topics, please
    subscribe to rec.autos or alt.flame and keep it there.

Safety Equipment:

Q:  Do airbags really work?

A:  Preliminary statistics suggest the following:  Airbags work much
    better than no belts; good 3 point belts alone work much better than
    Airbags alone, and AirBags + 3 point belts work slightly better than
    3 point belts alone.  The con to airbags is that some designs tend
    to burn the driver's hands when venting the byproducts of the
    explosion that occurs inside the bag, and that some designs (but
    not all) may knock the driver's hands from the wheel, making retention
    of control of the vehicle after the bag deflates more difficult.

Brake Questions:

Q:  Do I always need to get the rotors on my disk brakes turned?  Midas
    always wants to do this.

A:  No.  There are specific conditions that mandate turning or replacing
    rotors; some shops try and make a little extra money by replacing rotors
    more often than is strictly necessary.  if the rotors are not warped
    warped, and only lightly grooved, then there is no need to replace or
    to turn them.  Note also that some rotors (the rotors on many Hondas
    are a good example) are so narrow to begin with that it is not practical
    to turn them; they must be replaced when they become too thin, warped,
    or badly grooved.

Q:  They tell me I should downshift when braking to slow my car down.  Is
    this really a good idea?

A:  It used to be a very good idea, back in the days of mediocre, fade
    prone drum brakes.  In modern disc brake equipped cars, use of
    downshifting to slow the car is not really necessary, except in cases
    of long, steep downhill runs.  Otherwise, modern disc brakes are more
    than adequate to stop a passenger car in all circumstances, and they
    are much cheaper to repair than clutch linings.

    On the other hand, many standard driver's license tests in the USA
    still specify that the driver being tested downshift under braking; I
    suggest that before taking a US driver's test, you either 1) learn to
    do this smoothly (which takes some time and practice) or 2) borrow a
    car with an automatic to take the test.

Q:  How often should I replace my brake fluid?

A:  Probably more often than you do.  Traditional brake fluids tend to
    absorb water; this water can corrode internal parts of the brake
    system and also lower the boiling point of the fluid.  DOT-3 type
    are older fluids; DOT-4 and DOT-5 are newer specifications.  The
    principal differences are in wet and dry boiling points; the dry
    boiling point is important in fresh brake fluid, but the wet boiling
    point is important in older brake fluid.  DOT-3 fluids have the lowest
    wet and dry boiling point _requirements_; DOT-4 fluids have better
    boiling point requirements; and DOT-5 fluids have the best boiling
    point requirements (but DOT-5 fluids are not clearly superior; see
    the next Q&A for more details.)  While the requirements imply that
    DOT-4 fluids are better than DOT-3 fluids, there may be specific
    cases where a DOT-3 fluid is preferable, but these are mostly
    competition applications.  Otherwise, DOT-4 type fluids offer _much_
    improved brake pedal feel.  Replacement once a year is recommended for
    DOT-4 fluids, although agressive drivers may profit by changing out
    fluid more frequently, or at least bleeding a modest amount of fluid
    out of the brake calipers fairly regularly.

Q:  What about DOT-5 brake fluids?

A:  This breaks down in to two parts.  The DOT-5 specification looks
    excellent for performance, but the first DOT-5 fluids were Silicone
    based.  Silicone fluids are a tricky proposition.  Unlike DOT-3 and
    DOT-4 fluids, they do not absorb water at all.  While this may sound
    like a feature, the problem is that any water present pools up in
    such systems, interfering with braking performance and corroding any
    metals at the spot where the pooling is occuring.  The water will tend
    to migrate downwards in the braking system to the brake calipers, where
    most of the corrosion occurs.

    Because of this phenomenon, it is essential when converting to
    Silicone to empty the entire brake system and flush it throughly
    beforehand; some even recommend replacing all rubber parts in the
    brake system when converting to Silicone fluids.

    Two other issues that come up with silicone fluids:  1) they are
    difficult to pour cleanly (that is, without air bubbles), which
    interferes with getting a good brake pedal feel, and 2) while they
    generally have much higher boiling points than DOT-4 fluids, they
    do have high temperature failure modes which are indistinguishable
    in effect from boiling DOT-4 fluids.  SIlicone fluids may make sense
    in some street car applications, but they are certainly not
    recommended for high performance driving applications, and the
    economics are questionable for street use.

    I have recently become aware of new fluids that meet the DOT-5 standard
    that do not contain Silicones; these fluids appear to be reasonably
    compatible with the older DOT-3 and DOT-4 fluids, but I have little
    information at this time.

Q:  ABS is available on some of the cars I'm looking at, but it costs
    more.  Is it worth it?

A:  This does not have a cut and dried answer; therefore, this answer will
    be quite long in order to cover the pros and cons.  The short answer
    is that ABS costs more, both initially, and to maintain, will generally
    work better for the `average driver' (that is to say, a driver who does
    not have extensive experience in high performance driving techniques),
    and may require the `unlearning' of some obsolete braking techniques
    like pump braking which should be unlearned in any case.

    Now for the long answer.  ABS works by monitering the wheels of the
    car, looking for signs of locked brakes.  It may or may not be able
    be able to distinguish between the different wheels (there are several
    systems on the market.)  It cannot detect impending lockup (which is
    what you would really want in an ideal world), but only the existence
    of lockup.  The sensors used vary; some of the less well designed
    sensors are sensitive to tire size, and to brake pad material, and
    may cease to function properly if the owner deviates from original
    equipment or OE-equivalent components.

    When the sensors detect lockup, the ABS system responds by unlocking
    the brakes (either individually, or all at once, depending on the
    system.)  If the driver keeps their foot firmly planted, the ABS
    will end up cycling between the locked and unlocked states (if a
    sensor existed that could detect _impending lockup_, then we could
    sit right at that point, which is where maximum braking effect is
    achieved.)  This pulsing can often be felt in the brake pedal, as
    the system cycles.  The percentage of the time that the brakes are
    truly engaged is called the `duty cycle'; typically in an ABS system
    this is about 40%  On dry pavement, a trained driver can beat this
    duty cycle quite reliably using a technique called threshold braking;
    on wet pavement, braking is so chancy that ABS will outperform
    threshold braking nearly every time.  Unfortunately, on mud and on
    snow, often maximum braking effect can be acheived with the brakes
    locked; only Audi, of the manufacturers producing ABS-equipped cars,
    has seen fit to provide a disable switch for the ABS system for this
    eventuality.

    A particularly important feature of ABS is that it preserves
    steering control.  This is the case simply because, if you are
    braking near the limit and turn the wheel, the ABS will release
    the brakes if it sees steering-triggered lockup, and back off
    on the percentage of the time that the brakes are applied.
    Braking distances will lengthen accordingly.

    An important caution:  ABS cannot exceed the maximum theoretical
    braking force in any given situation; if you start sliding on
    glare ice, don't expect an ABS system to help you out very much.
    The coefficient of friction is not changed by the presence of an
    ABS system in your car.

    As far as maintenence goes, in addition to the potential
    restrictions I've listed above, you have to worry about the
    following:  1) parts costs are much higher; the OE master cylinder
    for my obscure european sedan lists for $185, but the OE master
    cylinder for the ABS-equipped version of the same car lists for
    over $1000.  Most manufacturers explicitly forbid use of DOT-5
    (silicone) brake fluids in ABS-equipped vehicles.  Because of
    the potential cost of replacement of corroded brake system
    components, regular (I suggest annual) replacement of brake fluid
    becomes very important.

Q:  What about this threshold braking business?

A:  [normally, I'd not put this in the consumers Q&A, but recent
    publicity about a number of accidents involving police drivers
    in ABS-equipped Chevy Caprices suggests that this section is
    needed here -- rpw]

    Threshold braking is a technique practiced by all serious high
    performance drivers; if made a habit, it replaces the `stab
    the pedal and lock 'em up' panic habit entirely, and is much
    to be prefered.  Basically, the premise is that tires generate
    maximum braking force when they have just started to slide, but
    just before the wheels lock up entirely.  Drivers who threshold
    brake learn to feel what this `threshold' feels like, and learn
    to search for it and hit it on the application of the brake
    pedal.  In many cars, you can feel that you are near the
    threshold when the pedal starts to firm up as you depress it.
    In any case, if you can't hear the tires whine just a bit, you're
    not very near the threshold.

    In a car with ABS, often there is a twinge in the pedal just
    before the system starts cycling; if the driver backs off on
    the pedal just a tad when the twinge is felt, then they are very
    close to the threshold and they'll probably achieve better
    stopping distances than if they just punched it and let the ABS
    take over.

    Recently, there has been a rash of publicity over a number of
    accidents, and one death, involving police cars equipped with
    ABS systems.  The police departments in question quickly blamed
    the new ABS systems, but according to Autoweek magazine, it now
    seems clear that the problem was a lack of training; none of the
    involved officers had any recent performance driving training.
    There is reason to believe that the drivers reacted to the pulsing
    brake pedal by `pump braking', an old and discredited technique
    of stabbing and releasing the brake pedal, the goal being to
    try and get brakes back with a failing hydraulic system.  If you
    think about it for a minute, you'll realize that pump braking must
    cut the effective operation of a working brake system by at least
    1/2, so if you cut the 40% duty cycle of an ABS system by that
    much, you are giving up most of your brakes for the wrong reason.
    Threshold braking has the advantage in that it is an effective
    and useful technique regardless of whether your car has ABS; if
    you do fear a failed hydraulic system, then one or two stabs at
    the pedal will be sufficient.    

Gas Questions:

Q:  Does High Octane gasoline help?

A:  Maybe, maybe not.  Some cars have knock sensors, and can adjust the
    engine timing or turbocharger boost to suit the gasoline being used.
    On most cars, however, you should use the cheapest gas that makes your
    car run well.  Check your owner's manual for details on what your car
    needs.

Q:  My car was made for leaded gasoline.  Will unleaded gas hurt it?

A:  It is possible that unleaded gas may *slightly* increase valve wear,
    although the Amoco Oil company argues otherwise.  The actual increase
    in valve wear will be almost unnoticeable, however, as modern leaded
    gasolines actually contain very little lead.  You should, however,
    check your owner's manual; many cars from the early 1970s do not
    actually require leaded gasoline.

Q:  Do fuel treatments help?  What kind should I use?

A:  Some do and some don't.  During the winter, it is a good idea to use
    dry gas; however, some may be harmful to fuel injection systems.
    Never use an additive containing Methanol (sometimes called Methyl
    Alcohol); such additives may damage fuel systems in cars with carbs
    and almost certainly will damage cars with fuel injection.

    Manufacturer's opinions vary on additives containing Ethanol (sometimes
    called Ethyl Alcohol); if your car has fuel injection, check the owner's
    manual on your car before  using these.  Most manufacturers consider
    10% Ethanol acceptable in gasoline.  Additives with Isopropyl Alcohol
    (Isopropanol), and Petroleum  Distillates are fine in fuel injected
    cars.

    An occasional bottle of fuel injector cleaner is helpful in cars with
    fuel injectors, although many premium gasolines contain detergents that
    do the same job.  Some off brands of fuel injector cleaners contain
    Ethanol or Methanol; always check the ingredients before putting anything
    in your gas tank.

    There are a small number of particularly good additives; these are
    noticeably more expensive that the run-of-the-mill ones, but work
    much, much better.  Among these are Chevron Techron, Redline SL-1,
    Wurth `Lubrimoly Ventil Sauber', and BG 44K.  A bottle of one of these,
    once every six months, is highly recommended.

Q:  What about detergent gasolines?

A:  The quality of detergent packages in gasolines varies somewhat; BMW
    has instituted a testing program, and gasoline brands which pass this
    test may advertise that fact.  Stickers indicating passage of the test
    are now beginning to appear on fuel pumps at gas stations.  If such
    gasolines are used, then fuel injector cleaners are probably optional.
    Beforewarned that while use of BMW approved gasolines will keep a clean
    engine clean, they may not clean a motor with bad valve deposits.

Lubrication Questions:

Q:  What do the numbers and letters in a motor oil designation mean?

A:  There are several different items encoded.  There is a two-letter
    code indicating the type of detergent package that the manufacturer	
    uses in the oil; this looks like SE,SF,CD or such.  The S codes are
    for gasoline engine applications; the C codes are for diesel engine
    applications.  The second letter is assigned in sequence as new levels
    of protection are developed; thus SF is considered better than SE,
    SE is considered better than SD, and so forth.

    The more noticeable designation is the oil weight.  This is either
    a single number (e.g., 30 weight) or a pair of numbers separated by
    the letter W (e.g., 10W30.)  The latter type is much more commonly
    used these days, and are the only type that most automobile
    manufacturers specify in operators manuals.  The first number in the
    designation (10W) is the apparent viscosity of the oil when it is cold;
    the W stands for `winter'.  The second number (30) is the viscosity
    of the oil when hot.  There is a trick here; the oil doesn't actually
    get thicker (turn from 10 weight to 30 weight) as it gets hotter.  What
    is actually happening is that when the oil is cold, it has the viscosity
    of a cold 10 weight oil.  as it gets hotter, it doesn't get thin as fast
    as a 10W oil would; by the time it is up to temperature, it has the
    viscosity of a hot 30 weight oil.

    Note that these numbers actually specify ranges of viscosities; not
    all 10W oils have exactly the same viscosity when cold, and not all
    30 weight oils have the same viscosity when hot.  Note also that the
    novel behaviour of multi-grade oils is caused by additives, and it has
    been reported that with the sole exception of Castrol GTX, 10W40 oils
    do not retain their multi-grade characteristics well over time.  10W30,
    15W40, and 20W50 oils work very well, though.

Q:  Are `quick lube' places any good?

A:  Some do adequate work, but there are quite a few incompetent ones out
    there.  Let the buyer beware, watch them while they work, make sure
    that they don't overtorque the oil drain plug, and keep your hand on
    your wallet at all times.

Q:  Are oil additives like Slick-50 or Tufoil any good?

A:  Slick-50 and Tufoil are PTFE-based additives.  Many of these have
    come onto the market recently; they are different from the moly-based
    additives that have been around since the early 50's.  PTFE is the
    chemical name for Teflon(TM), a trademark owned by DuPont. In general,
    auto manufacturers do not recommend use of these products.  Most USENET
    responses to questions on these additives are favorable (slight
    increase of MPG after application, smoother revving) but long term
    results (whether PTFE additives are effective after 5K miles) are
    debatable.  Some manufacturers (such as Saab) claim that either the
    product or the engine flush that preceeds application causes
    deterioration of the oil seals and eventual leakage.  Some BMW owners
    have reported death of valve seals shortly after the addition of
    Slick 50 to their cars.  This writer has been cautioned by a Slick-50
    Dealer (!) that Slick-50 should _not_ be used in Japanese motors, as
    it may clog the oil return passages in the engine.  Otherwise, there are
    no known reports of damage caused by PTFE additives.

    On the other hand, there are satified Slick 50 customers in the world.

Q:  Do synthetic oils really work?

A:  Yes, but.  More specifically, most auto manufactuers accept synthetics,
    but disagree with the extremely long oil change intervals claimed by
    oil manufacturers.  Auto manufacturers recommend that you continue to
    change oil at the intervals recommended in the owners manual for your
    car.  Even if you decide to try the longer intervals, at least change
    the oil filter at regular intervals, as synthetics get just as dirty
    as conventional oils.

    Synthetic gear lubricants for manual transmissions are another matter
    entirely; Amsoil, Redline, and AGIP are very highly regarded and very
    effective.  Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube gets mixed reviews, however.

Q:  Manufacturers are specifying longer and longer oil change intervals.
    How often should I change my oil?

A:  It depends on how you drive.  If your car always (or nearly always)
    gets warmed up, and you don't drive it very hard and keep the revs
    down, the manufacturer's recommendation is probably fine.  If, however,
    you drive it hard, drive it at high revs, or alternatively, if you
    only drive it to and from the supermarket so that it doesn't get up
    to temperature, then you may wish to change oil much more often,
    perhaps at 3000 mile intervals (given that most manufacturers are
    now specifying 7500 mile intervals.)  If you don't drive your car
    much at all (say 7500 miles a year), then you probably want to change
    oil every six months anyway.  If you are storing a car during the winter,
    then change oil before storing it and change oil when you bring it out
    of storage.

Misc. Questions:

Q:  My car has a timing belt.  I hear that bad things happen when they
    break.  What's the story?

A:  It depends on the internal design of the motor.  Early Ford Escorts,
    for example, will suffer severe valve damage if the belt breaks, but
    the newer cars will just require a tow and installation of a new belt.
    Some Honda motors will not be damaged, but others will be.

    If no replacement interval is specified for your car, then change the
    belt at least every 60,000 miles; some cars may require more frequent
    replacement.  Ask your dealer or independent mechanic.  Also, ask if
    there are any related repairs that should take place at the same time
    (for example, the same Ford Escorts that suffer valve damage also have
    a timing belt driven water pump, which has been known to seize,
    destroying the timing belt, and which then causes major valve damage
    as a side effect.  Replacing the timing belt while ignoring the water
    pump can be a costly mistake.)

Q:  Why would anyone be stupid enough to design a motor so that it
    self destructs when the timing belt breaks?

A:  For performance reasons.  Compromising piston design so that the
    valves and pistons will not collide requires that the compression
    ratio of the engine be reduced significantly; this is why you are
    more likely to avoid valve damage in economy cars than in performance
    oriented vehicles.

Q:  What causes Unintended Acceleration?

A:  The final report of the National Highway, Transportation, and Safety
    Administration concluded that unintended acceleration could not be
    caused by any mechanical failure of the vehicle in question and at the
    same time be consistent with the physical evidence.  The NHTSA report
    goes on to conclude that `pedal misapplication' by the vehicle operator
    is probably the cause.
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102765
From: chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu (Chris Barrus)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


Unfortunately, I've got another story to add to this.  My girlfriend
and I were driving through west L.A., and got pelted by a rock just as
we were pulling away from a stoplight.  The scary thing was that the
rock was heavy enough to put a decent-sized dent in the door of my '72
Riviera which is pretty much solid "Detriot Iron."  Couple of inches
higher and it would have gone through the window.

Chris
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Chris Barrus  ---   chrisb@lynx.ps.uci.edu  ---  kallista@aol.com
   1972 Buick Riviera boattail, peace through superior automotive power!
           Sacred cows make the best hamburger - Abbie Hoffman
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102766
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: MILITECH

I saw an interesting product in NY Auto Show, and would like to 
hear your comments.

MILITECH(tm) is yet another oil additive. But the demonstration of this
product really impressive, if it didn't cheat.

The setup of the demo is fairly simple. A cone shaped rotor is
half submerged in a small oil sink, filled with motor oil. The rotor
is powered by an electronic motor. A metal pad is pressed against
the rotor using the torque wrench until the rotor stopped by friction. 
The torque that is needed to stop rotor is read from the torque wrench.

Before MILITECH was added, the rotor was stopped with about 60 lb-ft
of torque (You pick the brand of oil, no difference). Once MILITECH was 
added to the oil, the rotor could not be stopped even with 120+ lb-ft of
torque. 

Here is the good part: even after the salesman emptied the oil sink, 
you still could not stopped the rotor with the thin film remained  on it.

They say you need only add 2oz per quart of oil every 15k miles. A 16 oz
bottle is $25.

I still have my doubts. If this product is really so great, why it was
so little known? The salesman said it is widely used in military. I didn't
believe it.  The demo was so impressive, that I bought a bottle against
my common sense.

Has anyone heard of or actually used this product? Is it real?
If you are going to the auto show, please visit this stand on the 
second floor. See if can find out if the demo is a hoax or not.

Jason Chen


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102767
Subject: Re: Ford SHO engine parts!
From: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 


W >>will NOT do work on internal engine components of the SHO engine.  This
W >
W >Good thing, too.
W >
W >At about 25K miles my cam sensor went south.  2 different Ford
W >dealers tried 5 or 6 different "fixes", none of which worked.  Finally
W >I took it down the street to the local mechanic.  This guy reads the
W >code off the engine computer, says "Bad cam sensor", and fixes it in 
W >an hour...

A friend of mine had some sensors damaged by flood waters, Ford denys any
sensors are registering bad.  He and his father did the short a circut via
paper clip method (not sure of the exact technique), and read the codes off
the "service engine" light flashes generated from this.  Came up with the 
damaged sensors, went back to Ford, and TOLD them what was wrong.  They
fixed the car after that.  What a bunch of bozos.
                                 
----
The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us)   A PCBoard 14.5a system
Houston, Texas, USA   +1.713.466.1525          running uuPCB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102768
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: Automotive Mailing Lists

Archive-Name: rec-autos/part2

Automotive Mailing Lists (Electronic Mail, that is):

[last updated 3/17/93; new lotus, exotic cars list subscription info;
   added Portland, OR motorsports list, Corvair list, Triumph TR8 list -- rpw]

There are a number of electronic mailing lists on the network devoted to
various special automotive topics.

To the best of my knowledge, all the lists appearing here have open
membership policies.  It is my policy not to list `closed' mailing lists
here.

Most mailing lists provide separate addresses for administrative
queries and for general mail; where separate administrative
addresses exist, I have listed those below, as the general addresses
are not appropriate for inquirys and requests.

Audi
         (send requests to quattro-request@aries.east.sun.com)

Autocross/Solo
         (send requests to autox-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)

BMW
         (send requests to bmw-request@balltown.cma.com
          both regular and digest forms available)

British Cars
         (send requests to british-cars-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)

Buick Grand National/Regal/GNX
         (send requests to gnttype-request@srvsn2.monsanto.com)

Camaro/Firebird (GM F-body)
         (send requests to f-body-request@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM)

Corvair
         (send requests to bryan@pegasus.mitre.org)

Corvettes
   there are two lists; the first is more of a competition oriented
   list, and the second is more general in nature (or so i am told)

   Competition:
          (send requests to vettes-request@cimage.com)
   General:
          (send requests to vettes-request@compaq.com)

Datsun/Fairlady Roadsters
         (send requests to datsun-roadsters-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)

Dodge Stealth/Mitsubishi 3000GT
	(send requests to stealth-req%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu)

Eclipse/Talon/Laser
         (send requests to diginst!talon-request@radius.com)

Electric Vehicles
         (send requests to info-ev-request@ymir.claremont.edu)

Exotic-Cars
	 (send requests to exotic-cars-request@sol.asl.hitachi.com)

Fabrication (race cars)
	 (send requests to racefab-request@pms706.pms.ford.com)

International Harvester (discussion of Scouts, pickups, etc.)
	 (send requests to ihc-request@balltown.cma.com)

Italian Cars
	 (send requests to italian-cars-request@balltown.cma.com;
          both regular and digest forms available)

Hondas
         listserv@brownvm.brown.edu; use standard listserv subscription
         procedure: the mail message body to listserv should be
         "sub HONDA-L your-real-name" with no subject line in the header

Hot rods
         (send requests to hotrod-request@dixie.com)

Land Rovers
	 (send requests to land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com)

Lotus
	 (send requests to lotus-cars-request@netcom.com)

Mazdas
         (send requests to mazda-list-request@ms.uky.edu)

Miata
         listserv@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu; use standard listserv subscription
         procedure: the mail message body to listserv should be
         "sub miata your-real-name" with no subject line in the header

Merkurs
         (send requests to merkur-request@pcad.UUCP)

Mopar
         (mostly high performance Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth products.
          send requests to mopar@casbah.acns.nwu.edu)

MR2
         (send requests to mr2-interest-request@validgh.com)

Mustangs
   There are two lists, the first is for Mustangs through 1973,
   the second for Mustangs from 1980 on.  nobody cares about
   the Mustang II, so don't ask.

   classic:
         (send requests to classic-mustangs-request@hpfctjc.fc.hp.com)
   modern:
	 (send requests to mustangs-request@cup.hp.com)

Offroad & 4X4
         (send requests to offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu)

Porsches
	 (send requests to porschephiles-request@tta.com)

Portland, Oregon Motorsports Activities
         (send requests to pdxracer-request@reed.edu)

Rally
         (send requests to rally-request@stratus.com)

RX7
	 (send requests to jjn@cblpf.ATT.COM)

Saabs
         (send requests to saab@network.mhs.compuserve.com)

Saturn
         (send requests to saturn-request@oar.net)

School (high performance driving schools)
         (send requests to school-request@balltown.cma.com)

Sentra SE-R, G20, N2000
         (send requests to se-r-request@pencom.com)

Supras
         (send requests to supras-request@vicor.com)

Toyota
	 (send requests to toyota-request@quack.sac.ca.us)

Triumph TR7/V8, TR8
         (send requests to jtc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)

Volvos
	 (requests to swedishbricks-request@me.rochester.edu)

Wheel-to-Wheel Racing
         (forum for race drivers, workers, crew, and wannabes;
          send requests to wheeltowheel-request@abingdon.sun.com)

Z-Cars (Nissan/Datsun)
         (send requests to z-car-request@dixie.com)
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102769
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: the Rec.Autos Archive Server 

Archive-name: rec-autos/part3

The Automotive Articles Archive Server:

the automotive archive server is in the process of being rehosted,
and is presently not available.
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102770
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: Frequently Asked Questions

Archive-name: rec-autos/part4

[this article is one of a pair of articles containing commonly
asked automotive questions; the other article contains questions
of general consumer interest, and is broken out to facilitate
crossposting to misc.consumers -- rpw]

[last change: 8 February 1993; CT now permits radar detector usage,
    new tire-traction q&a -- rpw]

                Commonly Asked Questions

Radar Questions:

Q:  Where are radar detectors illegal?

A:  In the US, currently Virgina and the District of Columbia prohibit
    all usage of radar detectors.  New York prohibits their use in
    large trucks.  In Canada, they are illegal in Manitoba, Ontario,
    Quebec, Newfoundland and PEI (Prince Edward Island).  They
    are apparently are illegal through most, if not all, of Europe.
    Legislation which would make them illegal is pending in many other
    jurisdictions; chances of such legislation passing varies a great deal.

Q:  Where are Radar Detector Detectors used?  Do they really work?

A:  Usage is spreading rapidly; initially they were used only in Canada,
    but now they are appearing in New York and Virginia.  It is unsafe
    to assume that they are not in use in Connecticut and D.C.
    They work by detecting a certain frequency radiated by many currently
    available super Het radar detectors; some brands of detector radiate
    more strongly than others, and are thus more likely to be spotted.
    New radar detectors are becoming available which may not be detected
    by the current generation of detector detectors.  Note that a
    detector may only be spotted by one of these devices if it is turned
    on.

Q:  What is VASCAR?  Is it some kind of Radar?

A:  VASCAR is nothing more than a fancy stopwatch and time-speed-distance
    computer.  It depends on the operator pressing buttons as the target
    vehicle passes landmarks.  No radar signals are emitted by a VASCAR
    system.

Q:  What is Ka band radar?  Where is it used?  Should a radar detector be
    able to handle it? 

A:  Ka band has recently been made available by the FCC for use in the US
    in so-called photo-radar installations.  In these installations, a
    low-powered beam is aimed across the road at a 45 degree angle to the
    direction of traffic, and a picture is taken of vehicles which the
    radar unit determines to have been in violation of the speed limit.
    Tickets are mailed to the owner of the vehicle.  Because of the low
    power and the 45 degree angle, many people believe that a radar
    detector cannot give reasonable warning of a Ka band radar unit,
    although some manufacturers of radar detectors have added such
    capability anyway.  The number of locales where photo-radar is in use
    is limited, and some question the legality of such units.  Best advice:
    learn what photo radar units look like, and keep track of where they
    are used (or else, don't speed.)

Q:  Do radar jammers work?  Are they legal?

A:  Quick answer:  No, and Not in the USA.
    Detailed answer:  Cheap radar jammers do not work well at all.
    Jammers that work are expensive and usually the property of the
    military.  Jammers are a major violation of the regulations of the
    Federal Communications Commission of the USA.

Driving technique and Vehicle Dynamics Questions:

Q:  What are understeer and oversteer?

A:  Understeer and oversteer are terms describing the behaviour of a
    car while cornering near the `limit' (limit of adhesion, that is.)
    Most drivers do not normally drive hard enough for these terms to
    be descriptive of the situations they encounter.  Simply put, they
    tell whether the car wants to go straight in a corner (steer `less',
    or `understeer') or it wants to turn more in a corner (`oversteer'.)
    Understeer is commonly designed into most production cars so that
    untrained drivers, inadvertantly traveling too fast, won't get into
    trouble.  Understeer may also be induced by using too much throttle
    in a corner.  Oversteer is designed into some more performance
    oriented cars; it may be induced by lifting on the throttle (Trailing
    throttle oversteer, or TTO).  In extreme cases, lifting on the throttle
    may induce so much oversteer that the car reacts by fishtailing or
    spinning.

    Some technical details:  in a corner at speed, the tires on the car
    will develop what are called `slip angles'; the slip angle is the
    angular difference between the direction that the car is traveling
    and the direction that the steering wheel is directing the car to
    travel.  In understeer, the front wheels have a greater slip angle
    than the rear wheels.  In oversteer, the rear wheels have a greater
    slip angle than the front wheels.

Q: What is a rev-matched downshift?

A: When downshifting, the engine must be rotating faster in the lower gear
   than it was in the higher gear.  However, during a downshift, normally
   you declutch and lift your foot from the throttle, so the revs drop
   rather than increase.  In rev-matched downshift, you blip the throttle
   before re-engaging the clutch so that the engine will already be up to
   the new speed.  This results in a much smoother and faster downshift.

Q: What does heel-and-toe mean?

A: Heel-and-toe is a technique used to do a rev-matched downshift while
   braking.  This is normally challenging, because you need the right foot
   for both the brake and throttle.  It is called heel-and-toe because you
   use one end of the foot on the brake, and the other on the throttle to
   match revs for the downshift.  In many modern cars this is a misnomer;
   often you must use the ball of the foot on the brake and the right side
   on the throttle.

   Note that some race car drivers will skip the clutch, and just use the
   left foot on the brake and the right foot on the throttle, accomplishing
   the same thing.

Q: What is double-clutch downshifting?

A: While your right foot is doing the above, your left foot can do one of
   three things:  nothing, declutch once, or declutch twice.  The reason for
   declutching twice is to match the speeds of the two shafts in the
   transmission to the speed of the engine.  This is usually coupled with
   rev-matching, so that while the engine is in neutral and the clutch
   engaged, the throttle is blipped and both shafts of the transmission
   speed up.

   The procedure is as follows:
   (0) declutch
   (1) move gearshift lever to neutral
   (2) engage clutch
   (3) match revs
   (4) declutch
   (5) move gearshift lever to next lower gear
   (6) engage clutch

   This sounds like a lot of work, but with practice it becomes natural.
   The problem that double-clutching solves is normally the function of the
   synchronizers within the gearbox.  In transmissions without synchros or
   with very worn synchros, double-clutching makes it much easier to shift.
   Basically, if you double-clutch well, you are not using the synchros at
   all.  This is generally unnecessary on street cars with synchros in good
   condition.

Q: What do the numbers for acceleration from 0-60, 1/4 mile, skidpad, and
   slalom times in the Auto Magazines really mean?  May they be compared?

A: In short, 1) not as much as the magazines want you to believe, and
   2) almost never.

   In more detail:  the acceleration numbers (0-60mph and 1/4 mile times
   in the US) may be vaguely compared as long as they all come from the
   same source.  Testing procedures vary so much from magazine to magazine
   that comparing a Road & Track number to a Car & Driver number is quite
   pointless.  Keep in mind, too, that the same variation applies from
   driver to driver on the street; the driver is a major (often *the*
   major) part of the equation.

   Skidpads vary, and even if they didn't, skidpad figures are really
   only tests of the stickiness of the stock tires; they change radically
   when tire compounds change.  DO NOT make any assumptions about the
   comparative handling of, say, two sports sedans based on skidpad numbers.
   This is not to suggest that skidpads are without value, however. Skidpads
   are an excellent educational tool at driving schools.  They are simply
   of limited value in the comparison of anything except tires.

   Slalom times are slightly more useful; they test some small parts of the
   automobile's transient response.  However, they are also heavily influenced
   by the stock rubber on the car, and they do not test many corners of the
   car's envelope.  They DO NOT tell you all you need to know before making
   a buying decision.  For example, they don't tell you what the rear end
   of the car will do on a road which suddenly goes off-camber.  When a car
   has an adjustable suspension, these tests are usually done in the `sport'
   setting, which may be quite unsuitable for daily driving.  The list of
   caveats could go on for page after page.

Q: My buddy claims that wide tires don't make any difference, according
   to his freshman physics textbook, and that you can't ever accelerate
   or corner at more than 1.0G.  Does he know what he's talking about?

A: 1) in short:  he hasn't got a clue.

   2) in more detail: the equations for friction used in freshman physics
   textbooks presume that the surfaces are smooth,  dry and non-deformable,
   none of which properly apply to tire traction except in the case of a
   stone cold tire on dry pavement which is far below its proper operating
   temperature.

   Pavement is _never_ smooth; it is always irregular to a greater or lesser
   extent.  Tires, which are not really dry and solid (as rubber is a
   substance which in its natural form is liquid, and which has only been
   coerced into a semblance of solidity by chemical magic), deform to match
   the surface of the pavement which a vehicle is traveling over.  In a tire
   at operating temperature, grip is actually generated by shear stresses
   inside the deformed rubber, and not by anything even remotely resembling
   friction in the freshman physics sense of the term.  The colder a tire
   is relative to its operating temperature, the closer its behaviour will
   be to the traditional concept of friction; if much hotter than the its
   proper operating temperature, the more likely the possibility of some
   part of the tire actually ``reverting'' to liquid, which is mostly like
   to happen deep in the tread, causing characteristic blisters and chunking.
   (This latter, though, is almost completely unlikely to happen in normal
   street driving, so unless you're a competition driver or do a lot of
   high speed track driving, don't worry about it.)

   Because tire traction is completely out of the domain of simple friction,
   it does not obey the freshman physics equation at all; thus dragsters
   accelerate at more than 1.0G and race cars corner and brake at more than
   1.0G.  Because simple friction does not apply, it is actually possible
   for different sized contact patches to generate differing amounts of
   grip.  An actual analysis of tire behavior would require techniques
   such as Finite Element Analysis, due to the complexity of the mechanism.

Misc. Questions:

Q:  What does <name or acronym> stand for?

A:  Here is a list of some of the names which are commonly asked
    about; be careful in soliciting the meanings of other names
    as misinformation abounds on the net.  In particular, NEVER
    ask in rec.humor if you want a useful result.

    Saab:   Svenska Aeroplan A. B.,
              or The Swedish Airplane Corporation

    Alfa:   Societa Anonima Lombarda Fabbrica Automobili,
              or The Lombardy Automobile Manufacturing Company

    Fiat:   Fabbrica Italiana di Automobili Torino,
              or The Italian Automobile Manufacturers of Turin

    BMW:    Bayerische Motoren Werke,
              or Bavarian Motor Works

    MG:     Morris Garage


Q:  Does VW own Porsche?

A:  No.  Porsche is a publicly held company, controlled by the Porsche and
    Piech families.  Porsche has extensive business dealings with VW/Audi,
    which causes some confusion.  Since currently Porsche is in some
    financial difficulty, there is a possibility that Mercedes or VW may
    be interested in purchasing the company in the near future, but this
    is only speculation at this time.
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102771
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: rec.autos: Automotive Mailing Lists: how to set up your own

Archive-Name: rec-autos/part6

[New article as of 4 February 1993 -- rpw]


Many people want to set up mailing lists for their favorite
automotive topics; rather fewer know how to do it.  This article
will provide the essential information for doing so on standard
Unix systems.  A shell script and examples of alias file setups
are included which presently run on a Sparc 2 here at balltown.cma.com
for a number of mailing lists.  Note that if you do set up an automotive
mailing list, please let me know of the -request address so that I can
list it in the montly rec.autos posting.  Also inform the keeper of the
Usenet list-of-lists (check news.answers for this monthly posting.)

First of all, to get anywhere, you need to either 1) be a sysadmin,
or 2) have some measure of assistance from your sysadmin.  It is also
important that you have reasonably good network connectivity; if it seems
like you get everything several days after anyone else, or that you
have trouble getting email through, then your network connectivity is
probably not good enough.

Listserv:

There is a handy automated mailing list package named listserv, which
is available from several ftp servers on the network.  Details of
the installation and operation of listserv are beyond the scope of this
article, but anyone who is considering running a large mailing list should
probably  look at listserv carefully.

The Alias file:

On a typical unix system; there is a file named /usr/lib/aliases on
whichever file server is your mail host; it contains lines such as:

foo:   bar, baz, bletch


which means that any email sent the name `foo' on that host is
redistributed to users bar, baz, and bletch.  thus, the simplest
possible email list is 

my-favorite-car:  member1, member2, member3, my-address
my-favorite-car-request: my-address

this has a couple of problems; the most noticeable one being that
you have to be superuser to edit the alias file.  however, you can
do the following, with the connivance of your sysadmin:

my-favorite-car: :include:/home/mydir/misc/autos/my-favorite-car-list
my-favorite-car-request: my-address

Where the file specified is a list of comma and newline separated
addresses.  This file can be in the list admin's home directory,
owned by the list admin.

Bounced Mail:

this still has a problem; bounced mail usually gets distributed to all the
members of the list, which is generally considered somewhat irritating.
Therefore, the way that the driving school mailing list is set up
is instructive (Thanks to harpal chohan of the bmw list for this setup,
by the way.  I'm not sure where he got it from.)


school-request:   welty
school-rebroadcast:  :include:/home/newwelty/misc/autos/school/list
school: "|/usr/local/adm/bin/explscript school"
owner-school: school-request
owner-school-out: school-request


here's what is going on here:

the owner- and -request addresses are intended as traps for bounced mail
coming from the network.  the -request address also serves as the point
of contact for administrative duties.

school is what people send mail to; instead of pointing at addresses,
it points at a shell script which rewrites headers before resending
the email.  school-broadcast (of which nobody except me knows the name;
the name has been changed here to protect my own sanity) points at the
actual list members.

the shell script i use is as follows:

-----------------
#!/bin/sh
cd /tmp
sed -e '/^Reply-To:/d' -e '/^Sender:/d' -e '/^From /d' | \
        (echo Reply-To: ${1}@balltown.cma.com; \
         echo Errors-To: ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com; \
         echo Sender: ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com; \
         cat -) | \
        /usr/lib/sendmail -om -f ${1}-request@balltown.cma.com \
                -F "The ${1} Mailing List" ${1}-rebroadcast
exit 0
-------------------

note that this script does not know the name of the list; the name
is passed in from outside, so that the script may be used for multiple
lists (i run several out of this site.)
the script excises Reply-To:, Sender:, and From lines from the incoming
message, substitutes for Sender: and Reply-To:, and adds Errors-to:
99.9% of all email bounce messages end up being sent to the -request
or owner- addresses if this header rewrite is done.

For digested lists, there is some digestification software around.
Hopefully I'll be able to provide more information in a future version
of this posting.

richard welty (welty@balltown.cma.com)
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102772
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <1327@qa1.WichitaKS.NCR.COM> jhart@qa1.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Jim Hart) writes:
>In article <1993Mar29.161044.1@uncavx.unca.edu> bwillard@uncavx.unca.edu
>writes:
>>My TOP 10 list of dumbest automotive concepts ever
>>
>>10. 1984 Dodge Colt Vista - tachometer only avail. with automatic trans.
>>9. Back-up lights on Corvette - they're on the sides of the car!
>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Sure would be interested to know what year(s) this was!
>I don't seem to recall ANY car with back-up lights on the sides, much
>less any Corvette.  I suppose I could be mis-interpreting what you are
>trying to say here.....

Just a quick comment. Backup lights mounted on the side
would actually be *extremely* useful for people backing out of
parking stalls...

Regards, Charles
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102773
From: madman@austin.ibm.com (Steve Heracleous)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


This is a two-sided problem. Unfortunately our culture has been deteriorating over time.
The "breeding" of these low-life's is getting worse; our justice system is at best
extremely weak to handle these problems. That is why low-abiding citizens should have
the power to protect themselves and their property using deadly force if necessary 
anywhere a threat is imminent.

My Camaro (my pride and joy) got stolen right out of my driveway a few years back.
The persons that did that were eventually caught (lucky for me!) but not before
having trashed the car.

On another occasion, on my way from Texas to Florida, I had stopped in a small motel
for the night in a small town somewhere in Florida. About 5 youths were disturbing my
car, setting off the alarm and challenging me to come out. When I and another tenant
walked out with a 357 Magnum and a 45 automatic respectively, they vanished. 
Needless to say, I immediately packed-up and left.

Watch out for car-jacking and staged accidents. They can be deadly!

Steve Heracleous

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102774
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes:
>What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
>can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
>20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??

You make it sound like this behavior is new.  It isn't.  A lot of
pedestrian bridges have fencing that curls up over the sidewalk to
make this kind of think a lot harder to do.

I don't understand the mentality myself, but then again I couldn't
figure out MOVE! (I'm glad they bombed 'em) or the Waco Wackos either.

(Newsgroup list trimmed significantly)

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102775
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.170720.8538@colorado.edu> drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (
Drew Eckhardt) writes:
>
>Most cars have drain petcocks in the radiators, and I've never
>seen nor heard of a vandal opening one.  I imagine that there
>would be an even lower risk with an oil plug because you have
>to crawl furthur under the car to open it.
>
>Car vandals are usually real traditional in their methods, and do things
>that don't get them dirty, like keying your car, dumping sand, sugar
>or mothballs in the gas tank, TPing it, etc.

USUALLY....go enough places and you'll see stuff happen you didn't think did.


Steve

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102776
From: tulsi@ws19.b30.ingr.com (Neeraj Tulsian)
Subject: Re: Mazda RX7 parts - JC Whitney

	Their number is 1-800-541-4716
	they are based in Chicago, IL in case
	you need to call dir assistance.

	Their prices are more down to earth than
	ANY other source for car innards/outers.

	They will send you a free catalog. 

	Neeraj

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102777
From: mart@csri.toronto.edu (Mart Molle)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:

>>>My TOP 10 list of dumbest automotive concepts ever
>>>
>>>9. Back-up lights on Corvette - they're on the sides of the car!
>>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Sure would be interested to know what year(s) this was!
>>I don't seem to recall ANY car with back-up lights on the sides, much
>>less any Corvette.  I suppose I could be mis-interpreting what you are
>>trying to say here.....

>Just a quick comment. Backup lights mounted on the side
>would actually be *extremely* useful for people backing out of
>parking stalls...

While I can't think of any Corvettes with side mounted backup lights,
I know that Saab started using them about 15 years ago.  My 1975 Saab 99
didn't have them, but a friend's 1978 Saab 99 certainly did.  In addition
to the confentional tail-light mounted backup lights, they had another
set integrated into the front turn signal assembly.  For those of you who
don't remember, Saabs of that vintage had an enormous multicoloured plastic
growth, about the size of a _National Geographic_ magazine, sticking out
of the front fender, which incorporated amber "parking lights", amber side
marker lights/reflectors, white "cornering lamps" (like American luxury
cars) aimed towards the side of the road when you have your turn indicators
on, and white "backup lights" aimed towards the back of the car when you
have selected reverse gear.  The glossy brochure showed how these front
mounted backup lights were useful for illuminating hazards (pot holes, kid's
toys, etc) that would be run over by the front of the car if you had the
wheels turned while backing up.

Mart L. Molle
Computer Systems Research Institute
University of Toronto
Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
(416)978-4928

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102778
From: ernie@.cray.com (Ernest Smith)
Subject: RE Aftermarket A/C units


>In article <1qcaueINNmt8@axon.cs.unc.edu> Andrew Brandt writes:
>|> I looked into getting a/c installed on my 1987 Honda CRX Si.
>|> The unit is $875 plus shipping, installation is like 5 1/2 hours on
>|> top of that.  This is a hunk of change.
>|> 
>|> Does anyone know *any* place that does aftermarket a/c installation
>|> (not with a Honda a/c unit, but some third party unit).
>|> 
>|> I cannot seem to find anyone who can put a third party a/c unit in a
>|> Honda.  I am in No Carolina, so I would prefer some place nearby, but
>|> any references would be handy.
>|>
>|> Thx, Andy (brandt@cs.unc.edu)
>
Les Bartel's comments:
>>>Sorry I can't help you with your question, but I do have a comment to
>make concerning aftermarket A/C units.  I have a Frost-King or Frost-Temp
>(forget which) aftermarket unit on my Cavalier, and am quite unhappy with
>it.  The fan is noisy, and doesn't put out much air.  I will never have
>an aftermarket A/C installed in any of my vehicles again.  I just can't
>trust the quality and performance after this experience.
>>
> - les
>
>-- 
>Les Bartel			I'm going to live forever

Let me add my .02 in. I had a A/C installed by the Ford garage and it did not
work as well as the A/C that was installed by the factory in pickups 
identical to mine. I have talked to other people that have had the same
result. Don't know if this is just a probable with Ford or what??

	Ernie Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102779
From: ernie@.cray.com (Ernest Smith)
Subject: Re Aftermarket A/C units


>In article <1qcaueINNmt8@axon.cs.unc.edu> Andrew Brandt writes:
>|> I looked into getting a/c installed on my 1987 Honda CRX Si.
>|> The unit is $875 plus shipping, installation is like 5 1/2 hours on
>|> top of that.  This is a hunk of change.
>|> 
>|> Does anyone know *any* place that does aftermarket a/c installation
>|> (not with a Honda a/c unit, but some third party unit).
>|> 
>|> I cannot seem to find anyone who can put a third party a/c unit in a
>|> Honda.  I am in No Carolina, so I would prefer some place nearby, but
>|> any references would be handy.
>|>
>|> Thx, Andy (brandt@cs.unc.edu)
>
Les Bartel's comments:
>>>Sorry I can't help you with your question, but I do have a comment to
>make concerning aftermarket A/C units.  I have a Frost-King or Frost-Temp
>(forget which) aftermarket unit on my Cavalier, and am quite unhappy with
>it.  The fan is noisy, and doesn't put out much air.  I will never have
>an aftermarket A/C installed in any of my vehicles again.  I just can't
>trust the quality and performance after this experience.
>>
> - les
>
>-- 
>Les Bartel			I'm going to live forever

Let me add my .02 in. I had a A/C installed by the Ford garage and it did not
work as well as the A/C that was installed by the factory in pickups 
identical to mine. I have talked to other people that have had the same
result. Don't know if this is just a problem with Ford or what??

	Ernie Smith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102780
From: don@bcars194.bnr.ca (Don Skanes)
Subject: Jeep Laredo experiences


 I have been looking at buying a 1989 Jeep Laredo and was wondering
if anyone had any bad or good experiences with this model. Is it
all that much different than the other YJs? 

 It looks, feels and sounds like a nice vehicle even thought the
price is rather steep for an '89 (12K Canadian).

-- 
don@bnr.ca

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102781
From: wade@nb.rockwell.com (Wade Guthrie)
Subject: Re: Curious about the Porsche I drove

ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers) writes:


>In a previous article, wade@nb.rockwell.com (Wade Guthrie) says:

>>takaharu@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Taka Mizutani) writes:

>>>In article <1993Apr13.160535.20123@progress.com>, damelio@progress.COM
>>>(Stephen D'Amelio) wrote:

I wrote:
>This is consistent with the pre-'74 911.  The engine before that was a 2.2
>litre (or less, depending on how early you go), and got its power at high
>revs (starting slowly at about 3K, and jumping up at around 5K) with a 
>narrow band.  The '74 was a 3 litre and had a lot of smog equipment.  If
>you got much power at all, it'd be better distributed through the rev
>range.

>Bzzzt.  Wrong answer.  It really depends on whether you are talking model
>year or date of manufacture.  For instance, mine was a '67, but was
>manufactured in August of '66.  Prior to 1970 all 911s were 2.o liter.  For
>the '70 and '71 model years they were 2.2 liter.  for the 1972 and 1973
>model years they were 2.4 liter _EXCEPT_ for the '73 Carerra RS which was a
>2.7 liter.  The '74 and later years were easily identified by the new 5 mph
>bumpers.  Most models in the '74 year were 2.7 lietsr _EXCEPT_ the Carerra
>RSR which was a 3.0 liter (US Carerras from '74 were 2.7 liter models).  In
>'78 they went to 3.0 liter and there was only a single model, the SC (think
>of it as a cross between the S and the Carerra models).  note all the above
>are based on _MODEL_ year, not date of manufacture.  

I stand corrected.  This is all from memory, mind you  :-)

>As for the rev happy behavior, the earlier cars are even more prone to
>this.  The 2.4 liter cars used low compression engines, and suffered a bit
>in this regard.  The early 3.0 liter and 2.7 liter engines also got a good
>dose of smog gear as well.  The 2.0 and 2.2 liter engines were far and away
>the quickest revvers of the lot. 

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.  No, REALLY!
-- 
Wade Guthrie                     | Trying to program on MS-DOS is like trying
wade@nb.rockwell.com             | to shave with a chain-saw.
Me be not speaking for the Rock. |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102782
From: tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU> ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes:
>This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
>Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
>throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
>cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
>a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
>in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
>made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
>doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.
>
>What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
>can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
>20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
>
>Erik velapold

Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason
is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is
"No Big Deal". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort 
children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised
when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the
message they hear is "Life is Cheap"!

AT

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102783
From: zdem0a@hgo7.hou.amoco.com (Donna Martz)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:

>> >So, I block the would-be passers. Not only for my own good , 
>>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >but theirs as well even though they are often too stupid to realize it.
>>  !!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ !!!
>> >As a rule of philosophy, I don't feel particularly sorry when somebody gets 
>> >offed by his own stupidity, but It does worry me when some idiot is in a 
>> >position to cash in my chips, too.
>> >                                                           H.H. Mayo
>> 
>> zdem0a@hgo7.hou.amoco.com (Donna Martz) writes:
>> Well, Aren't we just Mr. Altruism himself!!   Just what the world needs,
>> another frustrated self appointed traffic cop.

hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:
>Well, if you want to stick the nose of your car up the ass of a 50 foot semi, 
>I suppose it's your neck, however, I'm not going to let you kill me in the 
>bargain.  If you get frustrated by somebody delaying your inevitable death 
>due to less that wise driving practices, then TOUGH!!!

Well, I never wrote that I would act as you described.  I stated that I 
would not block a would-be passer.  I would not block a would-be passer
"for their own good" or for any reason other than I was prevented from 
doing so due to the traffic circumstance.  I fail to see how deterring a
passer under these circumstance would IN ANY WAY decrease YOUR chances
of being involved in an accident, fatal or otherwise.  In fact, I could
imagine how blocking a would-be passer would actually INCREASE your 
chances of being "offed" or involved in an accident, especially if 
this "passer" is riding your bumper.  Intentionally blocking a person
riding your bumper is certainly NOT a "wise driving practice", it 
only causes the jam to become more congested. 
 
I don't mess with trucks and I actually watch the road ahead AND the 
road behind!   If I perceive that I am rapidly closing on a "pack" 
of vehicles, I try to avoid getting caught up in situation such as you 
decribe.  Usually either traffic is just building and I have to deal 
with this fact of life, or I wait to a slow passer to complete their 
pass and make way for the pack to clear.  If someone decides then to 
pull up on my bumper, I signal my intention to move to the right, and 
do so at the first opportunity (& hope they will open the jam).  I 
feel this is not only courteous driving, but ALOT safer than the 
actions you advocate!!!  There are actually many courteous drivers 
on the road who do not intentionally impede others.  

If someone in front of me seems to be oblivious to the fact that they 
are blocking traffic I use my blinker or flash my lights, or, if all 
else fails, will briefly speed up /slow down so they MIGHT get the 
message that I am a faster vehicle trying to pass.  I feel it is never 
safe to ride anyone's bumper.  IF someone is intentionally blocking 
traffic, because they feel that it is civil duty or philosophic duty 
or for some unfathomable reason, I feel they deserve, at the very least,
derision.       (Sorry this is soooooooo long.)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102784
From: hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen)
Subject: BMW's new plant in Greer, SC


Is anyone reading this message involved with the new BMW plant?
(does BMW corporate even have a net-connection?)

desperately seeking info,
Jeff Hagen
hagenjd@ac.wfu.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102785
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1qk7t5$dg@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes:
>>What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
>>can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
>>20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
>
>You make it sound like this behavior is new.  It isn't.  A lot of
>pedestrian bridges have fencing that curls up over the sidewalk to
>make this kind of think a lot harder to do.
>
>I don't understand the mentality myself, but then again I couldn't
>figure out MOVE! (I'm glad they bombed 'em) or the Waco Wackos either.
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I know that this isn't the group for it, but since you brought it up,
does anyone have any idea why they haven't "bombed" the Waco cult?    

Just curious.


>
>(Newsgroup list trimmed significantly)
>
>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.com

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102786
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:

>In article <1327@qa1.WichitaKS.NCR.COM> jhart@qa1.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Jim Hart) writes:
>>In article <1993Mar29.161044.1@uncavx.unca.edu> bwillard@uncavx.unca.edu
>>writes:
>>>My TOP 10 list of dumbest automotive concepts ever
>>>
>>>10. 1984 Dodge Colt Vista - tachometer only avail. with automatic trans.
>>>9. Back-up lights on Corvette - they're on the sides of the car!
>>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Sure would be interested to know what year(s) this was!
>>I don't seem to recall ANY car with back-up lights on the sides, much
>>less any Corvette.  I suppose I could be mis-interpreting what you are
>>trying to say here.....

>Just a quick comment. Backup lights mounted on the side
>would actually be *extremely* useful for people backing out of
>parking stalls...

>Regards, Charles
>-- 
>Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
>separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
>struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
>gourd. --Unknown net.person

	Wasn't the original intent of the reverse lights for the driver, so he
could see where he was backing up???  Although reverse lights on the sides
are useful for telling whether cars are backing up out perpendicular to the
path of the car, I don't think warnings were their original intents, since they
are colored white.



-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102787
From: nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625)
Subject: Re: Lois Chevrolet?


A little bit off of the subject but here goes
yes he is one in the same (i.e. Chevrolet Motor Div)
also his brother Gaston raced at Indy and was the winner in 1920.
I have also seen the name Arthur Chevrolet in the early teens (1911 and on)
I assume he is related

Keith Nuetzman, nuet_ke@pts.mot.com
Motorola Inc.
Paging and Wireless Data Group
Boynton Beach, Fl

see ya at Indy 500 and "400" ...yes!!!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102788
From: bw662@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill Cray)
Subject: Re: Thinking About Buying Intrepid - Good or Bad Idea?


I bought an Intrepid about two months ago and am very happy with
it.  Lots of room inside and even with the smaller engine it has
enough power for me.  The only problem I found was a small
selection on the dealer's lots. They are hot sellers around here.
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102789
From: gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

Ah, yes, the big chunks down in the sump. The solution is simple. Sort of
like the advice my Aunt always gave -- never scratch your ear with anything
except your elbow.

If you have pieces of ring, con rods, valve heads or stems, just reach into
the sump through the hole in the block that was associated with the creation
of those large bits and pieces. Anything you can't remove with one hand 
through the hole in the block may safely be left in place.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102790
From: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu (Terry Quinn)
Subject: Waxing a new car



I have just taken delivery on a new GM car (Firebird) with a 
clearcoat finish.  I assume that it is probably urethane since the 
industry has moved in that direction in paints.
 
In years past, it used to be recommended that owners wait up to 
60 days before you wax a car, for the paint to "cure."  The dealer 
shop manager said this also, but I'm not sure that he wasn't just 
basing it on past tradition.  Does anyone know if this is still a 
recommended practice, or is it better to go ahead and wax right 
away (non-abrasive new car wax) with the newer finishes? 

--
                                    Terry Quinn
                                     Germantown Hills, IL
                                      tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu
from Compuserve . . .                  >INTERNET: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102791
From: hkon@athena.mit.edu (Henry Kon)
Subject: 83 tercel sunroof leaks - arrggh

IS there a simple way tooput these sunroofs out of their misery - 
do leaks tend to be from old gaskets ?  
or from inadequate mechanical seals - 
or all of the above ??

is there any way to halt the rain ?

thanks
hk
--
Henry Bruno Kon
office: 617-253-2781 (with machine)
home:   617-625-3972 (with machine)


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102792
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?


I don't know if some lemons are out there, but from personal experience
My brother's has been trouble free.  Not one single repair, only 
regular maintainance.  The only work he had done on it was a result
of his stupidity... he stopped suddenly in the middle of a left turn 
on a busy intersection, and was rear-ended.  He has a 1989 Plymouth
Sundance.  I would recomend it, but I would also like to say that if
you can wait about six months, ChryCo is coming out with a new car
called the Neon, that is built in the same way as the LH's where.
Good luck with your desiscion.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102793
From: sborders@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott Borders)
Subject: Clear coat woes . . .

Is clear coat really worth it?  Yes, on the showroom floor, the cars
have this deep, lustrous shine that just can't be found on paint jobs
that aren't clear coated.  On the other hand, it seems that every clear
coated car that I've seen on the road (in a parking lot, etc.) has
fine scratches throughout the paint job.  As does, alas, my 1992 Laser.

Several weeks ago I had my car professionally polished and waxed.
When I picked it up, it had that same showroom shine that I remember
from a year ago when I bought it.  Several days ago I took my car
to the dealership for some work.  As an added bonus, they washed my
car.  Unfortunately, whoever washed it either didn't get the roof
(which is black, the rest of the car is red) completely clean before
he dried it, or he used a dirty towel.  Now my showroom shine is a
haze of fine scratches that aren't really visible until the light
hits the roof at a particular angle.

I am, to put it mildy, somewhat peeved about this.  Do I have any 
chance of getting the dealership to do something about this?
My guess is 'no'.  Is there any product on the market that provides
a solution to this problem?  Or am I faced with the prospect of
having the car professionally polished again to hide the scratches?
Information, commiseration, and sympathy all greatly appreciated . . .

Scott "the-dealership-will-never-wash-my-car-again" Borders
sborders@nyx.cs.du.edu
borders_scott@tandem.com


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102794
From: nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan)
Subject: Re: Chryslers Compact LH Sedans?

rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen) writes:

>aas7@po.CWRU.Edu  writes:
>> 
>> In a previous article, v064mcqs@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (ADAM M. GANDLER) says:
>> 
>> >
>> >I heard Chrysler is planning to design or is in the process
>> >of designing a compact sedan line based on the LH platform.
>> >If these were as thought out as the full sized sedans and
>> >priced competitively, I see no reason why they could not give
>> >the imports and even the Saturns a serious challenge.
>> 
>> OH GOODY!!! We now get to see SATURNS sold through CRYCO dealers.....
>> fab!
>Why is it this A-hole insist on remarks like this.  I really am growing
>tired of this s*** DREW. 

Do you have a "kill" file for your newsreader?  I put the name "Spencer"
in my kill file and that gives me about 10-15 less articles PER DAY that
I have to sift through.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102795
From: ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha)
Subject: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.

I have $30,000 as my budget.  I'm looking for a sports or GT car.

What do you think would be the best buy?  (I'm looking for specific models)

Thanks,
Danny
-- 

===============================================================================
=    "Hey! You programmers out there!     |    Danny Phornprapha              =
=     Please consider this:               |    ip02@lehigh.edu                =
=                                         |                                   =
=     Bugs are another endangered earth   |    LUCC Student Konsultant        =
=     Species needing your protection.    |    Work: (215) 758-4141           =

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102796
From: jong@halcyon.com (Barking Weasel)
Subject: Re: RFI:Art of clutchless shifting

schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov writes:

>I'm wondering if anybody else out there is a clutchless shifter? I've been
>doing it my self over 200,000 miles, on my current toyota truck I've got
>over 150k. I've heard people talk about how doing this can damage a
>transmission. My experiences suggest otherwise. What techniques do you use?

	Yeah.  I don't use the clutch all the time either.  I've done it
with Fords, BMW, Datsun, and Chevy and it works fine.  I can't think of
any reason that it would damage the tranny.  Essentially you are just
doing what the synchros do anyhow - match the engine speed with the
tranny speed and slip it into gear.


>On some old pieces of junk I drove, the transmission was so
>worn that pumping the clutch was the only way to shift, except clutchless.
>To date I've driven rabbits, datsuns, comets, fords & a chevy. Some where
>harder than others to shift but generally the higher the milage the smoother
>quicker & easier they where to shift.

>My technique is to ease back off the throttle and at the same time gently
>wrist back on the shift lever. If for some reason I miss the shift window,
>I lightly press the accelerator & try agian. I've found that clutchless
>shifting is eaiser/quicker at high rpms (4000-7000). I also skip gears some
>times using 1-3-5 ,1-2-4-5. 

	Sounds about right.  I usually slip it out during throttle-down
and then blip the throttle and wait until it feels like things are right
(usually about a second) and then slip it into gear...

>krispy
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon "You obviously don't know who you're dealing with" Gross
jong@halcyon.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102797
From: roger@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Roger Mullane)
Subject: Re: 86 Acura Integra 5-speed

I have a 1986 Acura Integra 5 speed with 95,000 miles on it. It is positively
the worst car I have ever owned. I had an 83 Prelude that had 160k miles on
it when I sold it, and it was still going strong .  This is with religious
attention to maintenance such as oil changes etc. Both cars were driven in
exactly the same manner..

  1. It has gone through two clutches (which are underrated.)
  2. 3 sets of tires (really eats tires in the front even with careful align)
  3. All struts started leaking about 25-30k miles
  4. Windshield wiper motor burned up (service note on this one)
  5. Seek stop working on radio about 20k miles
  6. Two timing belts.
  7. Constant error signals from computer.

  8. And finally. A rod bearing went out on the No. 1 piston seriously damaging
     the crankshaft, contaminating the engine etc. When the overhaul was done
     last week it required new crankshaft, one new cam shaft (has two) because
     the camshaft shattered when they tried to mill it. The camshaft took 4
     weeks to get because it is on national back order. 

     Everything on the engine is unique to the 1986 year. They went to a new
     design in 87. Parts are very expensive.

No way would I ever buy another Acura. It is highly overrated. .

      

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102798
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: Most bang for $13k

In article <1993Apr17.014638.56998@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (R
OBERT WILLIAM FUSI) writes:
>In article <23056.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>, david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (D
a
>vid Bonds) writes:
>>In rec.autos, CPKJP@vm.cc.latech.edu (Kevin Parker) writes:
>> I'd like to get some feedback on a car with most bang for the buck in the
>> $13000 to 16,000 price range. I'm looking for a car with enough civility to b
e
>> driven every day, or even on long trips, but when I hit the gas, I want to fe
e
>l
>>
>>Take a look at a '91 Taurus SHO - they can be found for ~13k, and are the
>>ultimate in 4 door sports cars.  Performance similar to a Mustang, but
>>quite civil and comfortable...  Try to get a late model 91 for the better
>>shifter.
>>
>>
>
>>----
>>The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us)   A PCBoard 14.5a system
>>Houston, Texas, USA   +1.713.466.1525          running uuPCB
>
>>Well, you could always go with a 5.0 Mustang LX with a pleasant V8, but the
>diamond star cars (Talon/Eclipse/Laser) put out 190 hp in the turbo models,
>and 195 hp in the AWD turbo models,  These cars also have handling to match
>the muscle, and are civil in regular driving conditions, rather than having a
>harsh, stiff ride....The AWD Turbo is clearly the better choice of the two
>(because of all that torque steer on the front drive model), but you may have
>to go with a leftover or "slightly" used model for that price range....tough
>decision...
>
>        Rob Fusi
>        rwf2@lehigh.edu
>
>--
> Car and Driver did a test with the same basic idea and chose the Ford Probe
GT (5sp of course)
>
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102799
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <3090@shaman.wv.tek.com>, andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) wr
ites:
>[]
>
>       "Can I ask.  Have any of you been at the speed of 130?  It's a
>       rush."
>
>So is cocaine.  What's your point?
>
>  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
>
 Yeah, and the cop couldn't catch me.....
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102800
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <3090@shaman.wv.tek.com>, andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) wr
ites:
>[]
>
>       "Can I ask.  Have any of you been at the speed of 130?  It's a
>       rush."
>
>So is cocaine.  What's your point?
>
>  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
>Don't know about the cocaine, but....
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102801
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: New Alarm Proposal

In article <1993Apr14.190652.19777@slcs.slb.com>, dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.co
m (Dan Day) writes:
>In article <1qeee6$o7s@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) w
rites:
>>
>>An audible alarm is just an annoyance -- to either a professional or
>>amateur.  NOBODY LISTENS TO AUDIBLE ALARMS ANYMORE.  The thieves know
>
>This is why I think there ought to be a heavy fine on false alarms.
>I'm really honked off about the fact that due to all the
>cars with cruddy alarms crying "wolf", no one will pay any attention
>to my car if its alarm ever goes off for real.
>
> Depends on your area, in the city, nobody thinks about it...but at a mall or
something near the suburbs, people do at least glance over.  Remember, an
alarm is only a deterent, not a prevention.  If a thief sees two cars he
"likes", one has an alarm and the other doesn't, he's obviously going to skip
the alarmed car and avoid the hassle.  There is a way around every alarm, but
at least you've got SOMETHING on your side.....
                                                            Rob Fusi
                                                            rwf2@lehigh.edu
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102802
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.

Good luck.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102803
Subject: curious about you
From: Maria Alice Ruth <MAO111@psuvm.psu.edu>

Please satisfy my curiosity. I'm interested in finding out who is using the
e-mail system. Please do not flood me with mail after April 21st. Thanks!
Maria Alice Ruth  mao111@psuvm.bitnet or @psuvm.psu.edu

1. Are you male or female?

2. How long have you been using the e-mail system?

3. How do you have access (at work, at school, etc)?

4. Who taught you how to use the system? Is that person male or female?

5. Have you helped anyone to learn the system? Was that person(s) male or
   female?

6. Which net did you find my questions on?

7. Which other nets are you interested in?

8. How often do you read/post to the system?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102804
From: edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards)
Subject: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

In response to a post about SUV's, I got several unsolicited recommendations to
check out the Land Cruiser, despite its astronomical price.
The Toyota dealer told me it's a "cult car".
If a car is good enough to create a passionate and loyal following, there
must be something really extraordinary about it.
So, all you Land Crusher Cultists - here is your chance to convert me.

-- 
Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102805
From: cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan)
Subject: NX2000 vs. Sentra SE-R


I'm plannig to trade my Sentra SE-R in with a NX2000.  My car has 11,500
miles on it and is a '92 model.  The NX2000 the dealer is selling is a '91
model with 23,000miles on it.  It has a T-Bar Roof, a/c, and an airbag,
which my Sentra does not have.  They are asking for $1500.  Is that a fair
deal?  The only thing I noticed about the NX2000 is that the engine did not
seem to have as much torque as my Sentra which has the same identical
engine.  I presume that the last lady owner did not really push the engine
to it's limits occassionaly while I did that on mine, thuis the NX2000's
engine is a little "tight."  So, if I buy the NX2000 and "excercise" it
well, should that slight power problem go away?  Any advice on this will be
much appreciated.  Thanks.  Please reply via e-mail if possible.
-- 
A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

"The mind is the forerunner of all states."

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102806
From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr15.173851.25846@convex.com>, tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes...
#In article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU> ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes:
#>This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
#>Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
#>throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
#>cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
#>a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
#>in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
#>made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
#>doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.
#>
#>What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
#>can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
#>20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??

   Yes. Nobody is watching them.  If they get caught, there is no punishment
 at all.  In the old days such behaviour would be rewarded with a whipping
 with a good-sized belt, and then taken into some hospital to see first hand
 what kind of damage such accidents cause.   Of course this doesn't happen
 any more.  That whipping would probably save the kid's life by teaching
 him some respect for others.  A person with that little respect would
 inevitably wind up dead early anyway.

   The problem is creeping gradualism.  If you put a frog into hot water,
 he just jumps out.  But if you put him into cold water and then ever-so-
 gradually heat it, the frog will cook.  This is what the entertainment
 industry and lack of religious, moral, and educational standards in our
 modern North American society have done to us over the years.  Now that
 we are about to be 'cooked', we may have woken up too late.

#>
#>Erik velapold
# 
#Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason
#is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is
#"No Big Deal". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort 
#children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised
#when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the
#message they hear is "Life is Cheap"!

  And the education system and the Religious Leaders aren't doing much 
 about it, either.  With both parents working in this society, where is
 the stabilizing influence at home?   Latchkey children are everywhere!
 And these latchkey kids can watch whatever rotten videos and listen to
 whatever violent hate-promoting "music" and videos they like because no
 one is home to stop it.

  This day and age, when there is about 100 times more things to learn
 than when I went to school, our answer to this increased knowledge is
 shorter school hours and more leisure time!  I say keep the kids in
 school longer, feed them good food and teach them something, and when
 they get home, have a parent there to interact and monitor them.  There
 is a very old and now forgotten proverb: a child left on his own will
 bring a parent to grief.  Daycare systems are not the answer.  This is
 just shifting the parents' own responsibilities off on someone else to
 whom it's not a life-long committment, but rather just a job.


# 
#AT

  Followups should go to alt.parents-teens


 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102807
From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <NEILSON.93Apr15135919@seoul.mpr.ca>, neilson@seoul.mpr.ca (Robert Neilson) writes...
#[sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]
# 
#> That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselves
#> and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is 
#> imminent.
#>
#> Steve Heracleous
# 
#You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
#go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
#job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
#me - those kids are mean.

  This last comment was obviously a bit cynical, but a true statement of
 the attitude of some drivers (there's your "autos" content), I would say.

  What law-abiding (not "low-abiding" as above (talk about Freudian slips!))
 citizens have the right and responsibility to do is try to PREVENT this
 type of behaviour in children.  A doctor may have to use "deadly force"
 against a part of a body (like amputating it) when an infection/disease
 has gone too far.  But his real desire would have been to *prevent* the
 disease in the first place or at least nip it in the bud.

   Followups should go to alt.parents-teens

 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102808
From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5JoIt.E31@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, neil@bcstec.ca.boeing.com
 (Neil Williams) writes...

# 
#As long as we're on the subject... Several years ago myself and two others
#were riding in the front of a Toyota pickup heading south on Interstate 5
#north of Seattle, WA. Someone threw a rock of an overpass and hit our
#windshield. Not by accident I'm sure, it was impossible to get up to the
#overpass quickly to see who did it. We figured it was kids, reported it and
#left.
#A couple of years ago it happend again and killed a guy at my company. He was
#in his mid-fourties and left behind a wife and children. Turned out there was
#a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old
#that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do?
#I don't think I'll over forget this story.
#Neil Williams, Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA.
#..
# 

  Neil, what did they do to the 14-year-old who they caught?  What did
 the man's insurance company do?  This could be significant and in any case
 very interesting.

  Followups to alt.parents-teens.


 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102809
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <C5o4nH.3su@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee) writes:
>W/r/t performance, converter lockup is purely irrelevant.  The lockup only
>occurs at light throttle settings and serves only to improve MPG.  Mind you,
>a converter clutch does a lovely job of improving MPG, but the additional
>mechanical advantage of the converter gives you more acceleration (vs. locked
>converter clutch) than its inherent losses take away.

the transmission in my car contradicts both your assertions..  i get much
stronger acceleration if i let the convertor lockup.. which i can induce
by briefly lifting off,  then quickly (but not too quickly to trigger
a kickdown) applying throttle.  above 3000 rpms, the convertor will never
unlock;  it would kickdown first.

who says there's no skill involved in driving an automatic?  i think
of it as the throttle and shifter combined into a single pedal.  with
my car i can pretty much influence its shifting patterns with my
right foot, while having both hands to steer.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102810
From: markm@latium. (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Bimmer vs Beamer

Although not in direct response to the referenced article, just to set the 
record straight, Beamers are BMW motorcycles. BMW cars are Bimmers. Please,
let's get our terms straight.

Actually, some purists would argue that the only true Bimmer is a round
tail light 2002 or 1600.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102811
From: kastle@wpi.WPI.EDU (Jacques W Brouillette)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

Could we plase cease this discussion.  I fail to see why people feel the need 
to expound upon this issue for days and days on end.  These areas are not meant for this type of discussion.  If you feel the need to do such things, please
take your thought elsewhere.  Thanks.
-- 
 : I want only two things from this world, a 58 Plymouth and a small  : 
 : OPEC nation with which to fuel it.  This would be a good and just  :
 : thing.  Car Smashers can just go home and sulk.                    :
 :        Jacques Brouillette ---  Manufacturing Engineering          :

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102812
From: CPKJP@vm.cc.latech.edu (Kevin Parker)
Subject: Insurance Rates on Performance Cars SUMMARY

     I recently posted an article asking what kind of rates single, male
drivers under 25 yrs old were paying on performance cars. Here's a summary of
the replies I received.
 
 
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I'm not under 25 anymore (but is 27 close enough).
 
1992 Dodge Stealth RT/Twin Turbo (300hp model).
No tickets, no accidents, own a house, have taken defensive driving 1,
airbag, abs, security alarm, single.
 
$1500/year  $500 decut. State Farm Insurance (this includes the additional $100
for the $1,000,000 umbrella policy over my car and house)  The base
policy is the standard $100,000 - $100,000 - $300,000 policy required in DE.
 
After 2nd defensive driving course it will be 5% less.
 
I bought the car in September 1992.  The company I was with (never had
and accident or ticket in 11 years) quoted me $2,500.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Steve Flynn
University of Delaware
======================================================================== 45
 
    Kevin:
 
    (Hope I remembered your name correctly)...
 
    You asked about insurance for performance cars.  Well, last year
    I was in a similar situation before I bought my car, and made the
    same inquiry as you.
 
    Age: 24 (then and now)
    Car: 1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    Driving Record: Clean
    State: Illinois
    Cost: $820/6 mos.
 
    I turn 25 in May and the insurance goes down to $520/6 mos.
    Also, I'm single and that incurs a higher rate with my company.
 
    I've got a couple other friends w/ AWDs and they pay more
    than I do (different ins. companies also), so maybe I'm just lucky.
 
    Hope the info helps.
 
    Dan
    [dans@jdc.gss.mot.com]
    Motorola Cellular Subscriber Group
 
======================================================================== 38
 USA
Cc:
 
I'm 23; live in Norman, Oklahoma; drive an '89 Thunderbird SC; have
never made a claim against my insurance (though I have been hit
several times by negligent drivers who couldn't see stop signs or
were fiddling with their radios); and I have had three moving violations
in the last 18 months (one for going 85 in a 55; one for "failure to
clear an intersection" (I still say the damn light was yellow); and
one for going 35 in a 25 (which didn't go on my record)). My rates
from State Farm (with a passive restraint deduction) on liability,
$500 deductible comprehensive, and $500 deductible collision are
roughly $1300/year. (I was paying just over $1100/year for a '92 Escort LX.)
 
				James
 
James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has
	and all he's ever gonna have."
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"
======================================================================== 61
 
I am beyond the "under 25" age group, but I have an experience a few
years ago that might be interesting to you.  I owned a 1985 Toyota Celica
GT.  I decided to buy myself a gift - a more exotic car.  Front runners
included the Toyota Supra Turbo and the Porsche 924 (1987 model years).
I narrowed it down to those two.  I liked the simplicity and handling
(and snob appeal, too) of driving a Porsche.  The Supra Turbo was less
money and had more features and performance - almost a personal luxury
car.  It had better acceleration and a higher top speed than the 924.
I was almost ready to give in to a buying impulse for the 924, but i
decided to stop by my insurance agent's office on the way.  I asked
about what would happen to my rate with either car.
 
"If you buy the Supra, your rate classification will be the same as
the Celica (the '85 Celica was considered a subcompact and for that
year was rated as one of the safest cars), with a slight increase because
the car will be 2 years newer.  Our lower-risk division will continue
to handle your account.
 
"If you buy the Porsche 924, we'll have to change you to the standard
[higher] rate company and your rate will double.  And if you go with
a 944, it's another story again - we'll cover the rest of this year,
but cancel you after that."
 
"But the Supra is much faster than the 924, and the 924 is actually
faster than the [standard] 944.  That doens't make sense."
 
 That's what the book says.  We don't insure Corvettes, either.  For
some reason, the underwriters consider Supras - and their drivers -
as very traditional and conservative."
 
I eventually went with the Supra for a number of reasons.  The Porsche
dealer had a nice salesman to get me interested, but a tough high-pressure
guy in the back room.  At equal monthly payments, it would have taken
a year longer to pay for the Porsche, plus its higher insurance.  I
concluded that the high insurance was related to probability of auto
theft.
 
   /|/| /||)|/  /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~   |   Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
  / | |/ ||\|\  \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_|  |      goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil
========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======
 
 
 
 
 
======================================================================== 32
 
I live in Idaho.  When I was <26 many years ago (10 years) I bought a Trans
Am (new).  Insurance was about $1300/year.  When I turned 26, it immediately
dropped to $460/year.  I had not had any accidents before or after, this was
strictly an age change.  That same rate stayed pretty much the same until I
sold the car 2 years ago.  My F-150 pickup is about $80/year less.
 
The real amazing thing is that when I woke up at age 25, I felt SO MUCH MORE
RESPONSIBLE than I was before...  :-)
 
Wes
 
======================================================================== 21
 
 
For your information:
California
Male, single, under 25 , No moving violation
Alfa Spider
     =======> $2000 / year
 
What a bargain!!!
======================================================================== 28
 
Let's see, I'm 24, single, male, clean driving record. I have a 92 VW COrrado
VR6. I live in San Jose, California. I pay ~1500$ a year through Allstate. A
good deal if you ask me.
 
I was thinking about getting a Talon, but I think the insurance is higher
for a "turbo" sports car vs a V6
 
-W
 
======================================================================== 27
 
1986 Honda CRX Si, clean record, in a small New Mexico town was around $800
per year, age 24.
 
Nearby city rates were 1.5X-2X higher than where I've got mine insured.
 
..robert
--
Robert Stack / Institute of Transportation Studies, Univ of California-Irvine
               stack@translab.its.uci.edu   '92 Mazda Protege LX
======================================================================== 37
1300 per year, 1992 Saturn SC, 21 Years old, State: New Mexico,
Insurance: State Farm.
 
 
======================================================================== 64
 
 
Here is my info:
 
Car             : '89 Toyota Celica ST
Insurance Co    : Farmer's Insurance
Yearly insurance: $2028
Age             : 24
Date of license : Oct 14, 1992
Residence       : Mountain View, California
No moving violations (for now atleast ;-)
 
Hope this helps. Please post a summary if possible.
 
Vijay
**********************************************************************
Vijay Anisetti
Email: anisetti@informix.com   Apt: (415)962-0320   Off: (415)926-6547
======================================================================== 38
Single, 24 years old, Eagle Talon Turbo AWD, $1200 (full-cover, reasonable
 liability)
No tickets, No violations, No accidents... (knock on wood...)
Mass,
 
	One thing that makes a HUGE difference in MASS is the town you live in.
I'm personally in one of the best towns within reasonable distance
of Boston.  If I moved to the absolute best it would go down to about
$1150, if I moved to the worst it would be $2000+..
 
	Also one accident and a couple of tickets, would probably add another $600...
 
 
	_RV
 
 
======================================================================== 43
I have a 1990 Mitsubishi eclipse turbo awd, am 23 years old and have no
tickets that went on my record.  I live in Illinois just outside of Chicago
and pay $1560 a year with full coverage at State Farm.  I did get a small
discount because of my alarm system($30 a year).  I only live 15 miles from
Chicago but if I actually lived in the city the price would be about $2000
a year.
======================================================================== 41
I'm over 25, but in case you're interested anyway, I'm insuring a 93 SHO
for $287/6 month.  Thats 100k personal+300k total+100k property with
250 deductible, glass and towing, State Farm.
 
======================================================================== 39
 
Unless you are under 20 or have been driving for less than 5
years, I think you are being seriously ripped off.  I don't have
one of the performance cars you listed, but if your record is
clean, then you should not be paying over $2K.
 
Did you try calling all the insurance dealers you could find?
Although rates are supposed to be standardized, I've found that
most places I initially call, give me some ridiculously high
quote and *finaly*, I hit one that is much lower.
 
Also, I have changed insurance companies when the rate went up at
renewal (no accidents, tickets, car gets older??) to maintain a low
rate.  You always have to be careful when it comes to insurance
companies 8^).
 
Good luck,
Serge

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102813
From: jsmith@cs.dal.ca (Jeff Smith)
Subject: Header for 89' Honda Civic Si

Hello,
	I am looking to slightly increase the performance of my 89 Honda
Civic Si.  I was wondering if anyone could suggest upgrades that were not
too drastic.  I thought that one of the easiest upgrades would be a new
header.  Does anyone know what kind of increase that the header would give
me?  I think I would check with Jackson Racing for the part.  Are there
any other comparines would make Honda parts.  

	Are there any other small changes that can be easily made and won't
screw up the car.  Things like new injectors?, new fuel injection chip etc?
I would welcome any suggestions of small changes that would make a
difference.

	I don't really want to change the cam etc because I have heard that it
would be much harder on the engine.

E-Mail relpies prefered please and I will post a summary of all the replies.
Thanks for any help you may have to offer!

--
Jeff Smith			jsmith@cs.dal.ca
Dalhousie University		Halifax, NS

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102814
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: Impala SS going into production!

qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu  writes:
> --From the latest issue of AutoWeek, the Chevy Impala SS will arrive in
> dealer showrooms in mid-1994.  Dealers have already been notified.  No word
> on the changes to be made for the production version.  My question to all of
> you is would you buy it?  And how much would you pay for it?
> 
> Aamir Qazi
> qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
> --Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Aamir Qazi
> qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


> --Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint

Alright GM!!!! Finally my wishes have come true, Moby Dick with a Corvette
engine.  DOn't you think they should maybe spend the money doing something
about the lousy build/quality/design of their bigger selling cars?  This is
another example of why GM is in so much trouble.  If you're going to stick
the LT-1 or ZR-1 engine in a car, at least make it a nice looking one.
Sheesh
.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102815
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: Chrysler New Yorker LHS (was Re: Chryslers Compact LH Sedans?)


Warren Brown, the Washington Post's auto writer was the first journalist
to get his hands on the New Yorker.  If you'd like his impressions of it
his review appeared in Friday's paper, in the "Weekend" section.
He is not your traditional auto writer...
Enjoy.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102816
From: murthy@watson.ibm.com (Sesh Murthy)
Subject: Re: Bimmer vs Beamer

In article <1993Apr18.173934.14572@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, markm@latium. (Mark Monninger) writes:
|> Although not in direct response to the referenced article, just to set the 
|> record straight, Beamers are BMW motorcycles. BMW cars are Bimmers. Please,
                    ^^^^^^^
Huh!  I though Beamers were IBM employees :-)

|> let's get our terms straight.
|> 
|> Actually, some purists would argue that the only true Bimmer is a round
|> tail light 2002 or 1600.
|> 
|> Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102817
From: brian@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Brian Donnell)
Subject: FOR SALE: '91 Celica Repair Manuals

Two-volume soft-cover repair manuals
for all models of '91 Toyota Celicas.
(Probably good for '92 models as well.)
Like new condition.
These are the manuals used by the
Toyota dealers' mechanics - they normally
cost over $80 new.

$50 OBO

Brian Donnell
brian@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102818
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: MR2 parts

Does anyone know of a dead first generation MR2? I need body parts, steering
rack, and a few minor pieces. I was about to buy a parts car, but the owner 
backed out after 3 month of pulling my leg. ARRRRgh.
Mike.S

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102819
From: hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen)
Subject: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions


The biggest hurdle for automatics (IMHO) is not shifting speed
per se, but rather the transmission's reaction speed when you
try to force it to shift manually.  

This was the biggest fault with the Subaru ECVT -- it took SOOOOOO
LONNNNNNNNGGGGG for the tranny to find the right ratio.

The sales propaganda says the Saturn automatic is effectively an
electronically-shifted manual.  Might this mean that Saturn has
conquered the problem?  (I dunno, only driven Saturn 5-speeds)

INPUT, PLEASE!

Another question:  Any plans for a manual-trans Chrysler LH?
Does anyone else out there fall asleep at night dreaming of this combo?



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102820
From: mad9a@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Michael A. Davis)
Subject: Slick 50, any good?


     Chances are that this has been discussed to death already, and
if so could someone who has kept the discussion mail me or direct me 
to an archive site. Basically,
I am just wondering if Slick 50 really does all it says that it does.
And also, is there any data to support the claim.  Thanks for any info.

Mike Davis
mad9a@fermi.clas.virginia.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102821
From: hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen)
Subject: Re: Lois Chevrolet?



The Chevrolet brothers were respected racers & test drivers for the
Buick Co. when Durant was there.

When the directors kicked Durant out of GM in 1910 he took Chevrolet and
others with him.  As mentioned before, they founded the successful
Chevrolet company.

A little-known fact is that the Chevrolet Co. actually took over GM!
That was how Durant got back in charge of GM-- legally his new company
Chevrolet Co. did the buying, and GM was a division of Chevrolet!

After 1920 and into the Sloan era, GM shuffled things so that the GM
board was superior, but there was always a degree of autonomy given
the Chevy division, presumably because of the initial structure.
(If you look at the organization chart for GM in Sloan's book, Chevy
division reports directly to 14th floor, not through the "passenger
car division" which covers Buick, Olds, Cadillac, and Oakland/Pontiac)

-Jeff Hagen    (minor deity of worthless auto-trivia)
 hagenjd@ac.wfu.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102822
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <0w2Z2B1w164w@cellar.org> blu@cellar.org (Dan Reed) writes:
>Fact is, I just leave the valet key in my glovebox for whenever 
>I need it...  

That will make it easy for a car thief.
Saves him/her the trouble of popping your ignition!

-- 
Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102823
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <C5HqJ0.57@unix.amherst.edu> bhtulin@unix.amherst.edu (Barak H. Tulin) writes:
>I just started reading this thread today, so forgive me if it has already been
>mentioned.  But...what was the deal with Renault's putting the horn on the
>left-hand turn-signal stalk?  It was a button on the end, where the washer
>button would be on the wiper/washer stalk.  Could the Frenchies not figure
>out the wiring through the steering wheel, or what?

Ford tried that also, back in 1983.  My 1983 Ranger Pickup had the horn at
the end of the turn-signal stalk, instead of in the center of the wheel where
God intended it to be. :-)  I drove two different cars then (the other an
1984 Camry), and never did get used to pushing the turn-signal stalk to
blow the horn.  The only time I got it right was when I was getting the
annual state-required safety inspection!
Not one of Ford's better ideas.

-- 
Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102824
From: tommy@boole.att.com (Tommy Reingold)
Subject: Re: Where can I get a New York taxi?

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:

$ [...]
$ 	Actually, you want a Checker Special if you can find one.

$ 	Good luck.  I'm sorry I let mine go...

I grew up in New York City so I rode in many Checker cabs.  The jump
seats were fun as a kid.  Although the cars were roomy -- a good trait
for a taxi -- they had a design flaw that I don't understand they never
fixed: the rear passengers tended to fall out of their seats when the
driver braked.  I wouldn't want to take a long ride in the back seat of
one of these vehicles.  Why did you like yours?  I never drove one, so
I have to ask.
-- 
Tommy Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102825
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: seating ergonomics - headroom

In article <930411.153152.amiller@almaden.ibm.com> amiller@almaden.ibm.com (Alex Miller) writes:
>My physical therapist has suggested that a good driving position
>for me is to have my back nearly vertical and for my knees not
>to be much higher than my hips.
> [...]
>Are there any cars that are particularly good in respect to
>having both headroom and a well designed seat height?

Take a look at mini-vans.  I sat in a Dodge Caravan, which had a high seat
and plenty of headroom.

-- 
Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102826
From: tommy@boole.att.com (Tommy Reingold)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions

hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen) writes:


$ The biggest hurdle for automatics (IMHO) is not shifting speed
$ per se, but rather the transmission's reaction speed when you
$ try to force it to shift manually.  
$ [...]

I rented an Oldsmobile Achieva (is that a yuppie name or what?) and a
Nissan Stanza.  They both had automatics.  I'm a manual transmission
bigot but I have to admit that the transmissions on these cars were
better shifters than I am.  And yes, they responded very quickly to
kickdown requests.  The Nissan had a tachometer so I was able to figure
out which gear I was in.  (The Olds may have also, but I don't
remember.)  I believe it shifted all the way down to second at about 50
mph when my foot told it, "No I really want to accelerate quickly."

I would still prefer a manual, but I won't delude myself into thinking
that I can out-accelerate a modern automatic.  And I'm very smooth at
shifting but certainly not as good as an automatic.
-- 
Tommy Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102827
From: ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha)
Subject: 300ZX or SC300???

Hi everyone,

I'm getting a car in the near future.  I've narrow it down to 300ZX and SC300.
Which might be a better choice?

Thanks for your opnion,
Danny
-- 

===============================================================================
=    "Hey! You programmers out there!     |    Danny Phornprapha              =
=     Please consider this:               |    ip02@lehigh.edu                =
=                                         |                                   =
=     Bugs are another endangered earth   |    LUCC Student Konsultant        =
=     Species needing your protection.    |    Work: (215) 758-4141           =

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102828
From: 6500alh@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Archie Holmes)
Subject: Prizm's Radio Question


 I was lloking at the Geo Prizm Lsi today (very nice).  Anyway, I had a
questions that the salesperson couldn't answer.  How does the theft
deterrent on the Prizm's audio systems work?  Can't find the answer
in any of Geo's lterature.  Thanks in advance.

Archie Holmes

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102829
From: rts@nwu.edu (Ted Schreiber)
Subject: Opinions on recent Alfa Spiders

Anyone have any opinions on fairly recent model Alfa Spiders ( 86-> ) 

Reliablilty for what their class ( I'm not talking Alfa vs. Toyota corrola
which is more relaible ) 

As far as I can discern, in recent years, there are 3 levels with all
basically the same mechanical aspects.

Please email any responses 


Ted Schreiber
Mechanical Enginering 
Northwestern University
Tel: 708.491.5386 FAX 708.491.3915 Email: rts@nwu.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102830
From: zampicem@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mike Zampiceni)
Subject: Re: mazda - just does not feel right

The car might also need a front end alignment, particularly if you're
describing wandering.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102831
From: grady@world.std.com (Dick Grady)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <93106.161324LIBEMC@BYUVM.BITNET> <LIBEMC@BYUVM.BITNET> writes:
>Mark states in his post to know the dealer price and offer $200-$300
>above.  My husband and I are in the market to buy our first car
>together, and neither of us know how to go about it.  How do
>you find out the dealer price?  Are their books to look in?  Do
>you send away somewhere for it?

Several company publish periodicals (3 or 4 times a year) which list the
sticker prices and the dealer invoice prices of all the cars and their
options.  Edmund's is the name of one such price guide.  You can find
these price guides at most places which sell magazines.

-- 
Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
So many newsgroups, so little time!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102832
Subject: Traffic Rules at intersections
From: jsv@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Julian Visch)

I am presently doing a masters thesis to do with traffic intersections in 
New Zealand but a lot of the books I am researching from, are from America or
Australia and so I was wondering if anyone could please tell me what the road
rules are in either country with regard to intersections.

Thanks
Julian Visch
jsv@math.canterbury.ac.nz

                                          ________________________
                              ,---------+/       +----------+     \
                            /          ||        |          |      |
                          /            ||        +----------+      |
         _________------=--<I|---------+----------------------------,
       .----=============|=========---=|=======================-->> |
       |     ______      |             |              ______        |
      [|    / _--_ \     /             |             / _--_ \       ]
        \__|| -__- ||___/_____________/_____________|| -__- ||_____/
             \____/                                   \____/


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102833
From: Jay Lorenzana <U40348@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Eagle Talon TSi--LEMON?


Dear Netters:

I am looking to buy a used Eagle Talon '91 or '91 TSi AWD.
Question is that the '91 TSi AWD was mentioned in the
April Consumer Reports to a car to avoid!

In particular, the manual transmission, electrical system,
and brakes were below par (in both models).  A friend of mine
ownes a '90 TSi AWD and he has had 2 brake jobs (pads), one
stuck valve, and some clutch/transmission problem, something
about sticking/grinding into second gear.  This doesn't seem
too bad if one "beats" on his car.

I am willing to suffer reliability--for speed and looks.  Seems
you have to pay big buck if you want all three.  Anyway can
anyone please let me know how you like your Talon, and any
problems you may have had, and if the repairs are worth it.

Thanks for any responses!

-Jay

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102834
From: atom@netcom.com (Allen Tom)
Subject: Re: Dumb options list

In article <93Apr16.185044.18431@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>The idea here is to list pointless options. You know, stuff you
>get on a car that has no earthly use?
>
>
>1) Power windows

I like my power windows. I think they're worth it.

However, cruise control is a pretty dumb option. What's the point?
If you're on a long trip, you floor the gas and keep your eyes on
the rear-view mirror for cops, right?

Power seats are pretty dumb too, unless you're unlucky enough to have
to share your car. Otherwise, you'd just adjust it once and just leave
it like that.

-- 
+-------=Allen Tom=-------+ "You're not like the others... You like the same
| atom@soda.berkeley.edu  |  things I do... Wax paper... Boiled football
| atom@netcom.com         |  leather... Dog breath... WE'RE NOT HITCHHIKING
+-------------------------+  ANYMORE... WE'RE RIDING!" -- ren

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102835
From: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

If you hold off, there are a number of interesting convertibles coming
to market in the next few years.

The new LeBaron will be based on the Mitsubishi Galant, which should
be an improvement over the current model.

The new PL compact will have a convertible option (also a chrysler
product)

Kia, makers of the Ford Festiva is planning a larger convertible.
-- 
Steve Morris, M.A.    : Internet: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu
Addiction Studies Pgm : uucp    :{uw-beaver,uunet!gtenmc!dataio}!sumax!smorris
Seattle University    : Phone   : (206) 296-5350 (dept) or 296-5351 (direct)
Seattle, WA 98122_____:________________________________________________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102836
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions


an excellent automatic can be found in the subaru legacy.  it switches to
"sport" mode when the electronics figure it,  not when the driver sets
the switch.. which is the proper way to do it, IMO.  so what does "sport"
mode entail?  several things:

1) revving to red line (or to the rev limiter in the case of the legacy)

2) delayed upshifts.  (i.e. if you lift off briefly, it will remain in the
	low gear.  this is handy if you are charging through corners and
	would like to do without the distraction of upshifts when there's
	another curve approaching)

3) part throttle downshifts, based on the *speed* at which the pedal is
	depressed, rather than the *position* of the pedal.  modern
	electronics can measure this very easily and switch to sport mode.
	this is wonderful if you want to charge through a green light about
	to turn red.  my audi senses this very well and can downshift on as
	little as half throttle if my right foot is fast enough.

also, i think that a smart automatic can deliver better gas mileage
than a dumb driver with a stick, all else being equal.. remember that
the idea of a stick being more economical than an automatic makes a
big assumption that the driver is smart enough to know what gear to
use for each situation.. how many times have you ridden with an
inattentive driver cruising on the highway at 55/65 in 4th gear (of a
5 speed)?  

how many % of people who drive manuals *really* know what the best
gear to use is for every conceivable situation?  i'm sure there will
be some who know, but i suspect that a chip controlled automatic with
all possible scenario/ratio combinations stored in ROM is likely to do
better.  i can also say that all my previous assumptions were proved
wrong after i got a car with instantaneous mpg readout... high gear,
low revs and wide open throttle is more economical than low gear, high
revs and small throttle opening.  the explanation is quite simple if
one sits down to think about it, but not that obvious at first sight.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102837
From: dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff)
Subject: Re: Taurus/Sable rotor recall


We get about 20 Taurus/Sables for fleet cars at our site every year, then the
company sells them a year later to employees. The folks I know who drive/buy
them have no complaints. The cars seem to drive real nice too. 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102838
From: crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Christian Huebner)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In rec.autos you write:

>if ayrton senna can drive a racecar with fully automatic transmission,
>it can't be half bad..  :-)

This McLaren auto-transmission (I still think it's only half auto,
but You may be right) has NOTHING to do with Your GM, Chrysler, Volvo,
or whatever auto transmission. It's a normal manual transmission
gearbox with clutch and all, but there are servo motors, which do
the shifting. 

That means, there is no power loss in the drivetrain (if You take out 
minimal mechanical friction), and the sami-auto transmissions 
(Ferrari, Williams, McLaren(?),...) don't tell You, when to shift,
either. However, these transmissions share an important disadvantage
with Your stock auto-trannie: They are EXPENSIVE.

As long as these servo-shifted gearboxes aren't available on 
'normal' cars I'm gonna stick with my manual. I just can't see an
advantage to make up for two grand I lose in this deal and the
loss in mileage and power (except maybe in real heavy traffic). But
then I drive mostly on the autobahn and country roads anyway.

There's no point in making a religion out of this, I just wanted to
point out a few technical facts and MY OWN opinion, so there's
no need for a flame war.

>eliot

Have a safe ride

Chris


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102839
From: issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin)
Subject: Re: 300ZX or SC300???

ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) writes:

>Hi everyone,

>I'm getting a car in the near future.  I've narrow it down to 300ZX and SC300.
>Which might be a better choice?

>Thanks for your opnion,
>Danny
>-- 

I've been asking myself this same question for the past year, so, if/when
you find out, would you please share the magistic answer with me.. 

The way I see it right now, work twice as hard so you can have both.

cheers :)

Issa


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102840
From: zaphod@madnix.uucp (Ron Bean)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

jong@halcyon.com (Barking Weasel) writes:
 
>schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov writes:
 
>>My technique is to ease back off the throttle and at the same time gently
>>wrist back on the shift lever. If for some reason I miss the shift window,
>>I lightly press the accelerator & try agian. I've found that clutchless
>>shifting is eaiser/quicker at high rpms (4000-7000). I also skip gears some
>>times using 1-3-5 ,1-2-4-5.
>
>        Sounds about right.  I usually slip it out during throttle-down
>and then blip the throttle and wait until it feels like things are right
>(usually about a second) and then slip it into gear...
 
   So, how did you guys *learn* this? Is it something you were
born with, or did you make horrible grinding noises the first few
times? (how many times?)
 
   I would think you'd have to have a certain amount of "feel"
for it to begin with. Some people would never get it, and others
(like me) would never have the guts to try it, unless maybe you
were planning to buy a new transmission anyway...
 
   (BTW, I've heard that quite a few truckers and race car
drivers shift this way).
 
==================
zaphod@madnix.UUCP (Ron Bean)
uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!zaphod


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102841
From: mac1@Isis.MsState.Edu (Mubashir Cheema)
Subject: 1st time Chrysler buyer, $400 off really ?


 Hello World,
	     just bought a new Stealth two weeks ago. Got a grad student 
 rebate. Someone told me that there's another $400 reabet for 1st time
 Chrysler buyer. True ? If yes can I still get it or am I too late ?


Mubashir Cheema
Sparco Communications				Ph: (601) 323-5360
LaGalarie 					Fax:(601) 324-6433
500 Russell Street, Suite 20			email: mac1@ra.msstate.edu
Starkville, MS 39759


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102842
From: hong@remus.rutgers.edu (Hyunki Hong)
Subject: VW Passat:  advice sought


I am currently in the car market and would like opinions on a VW
Passat GLX.  How does it compare to a Toyota Camry?  I thought the car
looked very solid, stable and European.  Only disappointment so far is
that that it doesn't offer an airbao my next question is, why isn't VW
offering automobiles with airbags?  Should I pay the extra three
thousand for a BMW 318 is even though it is smaller and less powerful
than than the Passat?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102843
From: hhtra@usho0b.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Subject: Re: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.

In article <1993Apr17.175451.30896@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) writes:
|>
|> I have $30,000 as my budget.  I'm looking for a sports or GT car. 
|> What do you think would be the best buy? 

 Well, for a bit more you could get an Mazda RX-7, definitely a BEST.

 For under $30k you're stuck with (in no particular order):

      Chevy Camaro Z28 LT1-1
      Ponitac Firebird Firehawk
      Ford Mustang Cobra
      Toyota MR2 Turbo
      GMC Typhoon  ;)



 TRAVIS
  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102844
From: rremaley@bcm.tmc.edu
Subject: Re: $6700 for hail damage - a record?

I was in the great storm.....my Mazda MPV was damaged so bad they are 
going to replace the top, doors and hood. It is Black so they will repaint 
the entire vehicle...estimated cost around $7000 and repair time approx. 3 
to 4 weeks.


rremaley@bcm.tmc.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102845
From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <1993Apr19.220321.4565@research.nj.nec.com>, behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes...
#In article <1993Apr16.160825.25622@newsgate.sps.mot.com> rapw20@email.sps.mot.com writes:
#>In article <1993Apr15.222600.11690@research.nj.nec.com>  
#>behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes:
#>>  ...
#>> 	Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for
#>> R12.  You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning  
#>Society
#>> (MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per
#>> retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash  
#>those
#>> R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very  
#>shaky
#>> technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst).
#>>  ...
#>
#>Now, I'm not saying you're wrong because I know that the R-12 substitutes  
#>exist, but this sounds a lot like the 200mpg carbs that the oil companies  
#>keep us all from getting.
# 
#	It sounds crazy, but it's true.  One of the best R-12 subsitutes,
#GHG-12, is currently a commercial product.  Unfortunately, the SAE committee
#on mobile air conditioning is comprised almost exclusively of MACS members.
#Such being the case, no papers about any alternative refrigerant other than
#R-134a have been accepted for review/publication.
# 
#	Yo, John?  You want to provide some more details?  Or should I just
#repost your voluminous repost?
# 
#Later,
#-- 
#Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
#behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
#Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
#agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.


    We here are *VERY* interested in info on R12 substitutes (in fact I
 think we really need all the info on this we can get).

    I would really appreciate technical, supply, and hardware-upgrade
 details.  

   Also, R12 is a useful solvent/reagent in the extraction/production of
 certain pharmaceuticals.  Any info on the substitutes' corresponding
 usefullness?

    I am currently working with the local engineers who are making sure
 we are compliant with the regulations.  The trouble with regulations is
 that they only tell you what you are no longer permitted to do, not what
 you should do instead.

     I think the cause of the new regulations is the Montreal Protocol
 which has a definite CFC-phase-out schedule.  (Of course the cause of
 the Montreal Protocol was all the research done on the causes of the
 Ozone Depletion Problem.)

     Someone asked earlier about why the governments were working so fast
 to ban the ozone-depleting (CFC) chemicals and not gasolines and other
 greenhouse-gas-producing compounds.  The greenhouse effect (produced by
 infrared-trapping gasses like CO2 and methane) and the ozone-hole problem
 (produced by long-lived, chlorine-containing molecules) are not the same
 thing.  It is a lot easier to do something about not using the CFC's
 (chloro-fluorocarbons) than it is to stop producing CO2 and methane which
 are natural byproducts of combustion and of living (animal) organisms.
 Planting more trees and not destroying so many existing trees would help
 the greenhouse-gas problem, but would do nothing for the ozone problem.

 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102846
From: kimata@convex.com (Hiroki Kimata)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NISSAN

In <1qideqINNl79@sumax.seattleu.edu> smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris) writes:

>Hey, NISSAN, why aren't you guys making any station wagons?  You used
>to make a wagon on every platform (SENTRA, STANZA, MAXIMA) and now
>NONE AT ALL.

In fact, they make some ,but they just don't sell them here in U.S.

Sunny California is a 1.6l wagon based on Sentra.
Avenil is a 2.0l 4WD/2WD wagon .(It looks like Infinity G20 
but actually it's independently designed to be a wagon.I mean, it's 
not based on any sedans.) 
 
Nissan had better consider to sell them here.

>After buying my SE-R and really loving it, I would like to buy another
>NISSAN product for my wife -- but prefer a wagon  (I've owned minivans
>and don't prefer them.)

>How about an ALTIMA wagon?  or a sentra wagon would do...

Sounds nice. But I doubt they have a plan. Coz Avenil was introduced 
to replace any sedan based wagon.

>or, here's an even better suggestion, why don't you guys go ahead and
>buy the rest of Fuji Heavy Industries (Subaru) and put either an
>in-line 4 or V-6 into the LEGACY 4WD wagon.  I'd buy the Legacy in a
>minute if it had a Nissan engine instead of the Horizontal 4 that they
>seem sentimentally attached to.

>With all the Camry, Accord, Taurus, Volvo and Subaru wagons out there
>-- it's got to be a market segment that would be worthwhile!

>I can wait a year or two -- but if you don't have something to compete
>by the 1995 model I may have to go elsewhere.

>Thanks.

>-- 
>Steve Morris, M.A.    : Internet: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu
>Addiction Studies Pgm : uucp    :{uw-beaver,uunet!gtenmc!dataio}!sumax!smorris
>Seattle University    : Phone   : (206) 296-5350 (dept) or 296-5351 (direct)
>Seattle, WA 98122_____:________________________________________________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102847
From: turbo@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gerald.l.lindahl)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

From article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU>, by ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi"):
> This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
> Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
> throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
> cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
> a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
> in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
> made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
> doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.
> 
> What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
> can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
> 20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
> 
> Erik velapold

Yes
!!!!
!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102848
From: jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Jason Hanson)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr15.192250.18815@cbnewse.cb.att.com> turbo@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gerald.l.lindahl) writes:
>From article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU>, by ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi"):
>> This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
>> Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
>> throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
>> cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly

About a year ago, some kids tossed a rock off an overpass on I-94 near Eau
Claire, Wisconsin and it killed the driver below.  (I believe he was a
schoolteacher from Minnesota.)
-- 
Jason Hanson         |  915 W. Wisconsin Ave #1010  |  (414) 288-2179
Marquette University |   Milwaukee, WI 53233-2373   |  Ham Radio: N9LEA/AE
--  jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu    ==+==    n9lea@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na  --

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102849
From: jdenune@pandora.sdsu.edu (John Denune)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

Mark Monninger (markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com) wrote:
: While not exactly a service incident, I had a similar experience recently  
: when I bought a new truck.
: I had picked out the vehicle I wanted and after a little haggling we  
: agreed on a price. I wrote them a check for the down payment plus tax
: and license and told them I'd be back that evening to pick up the truck.  
: When I returned, I had to wait about an hour before the finance guy could  
: get to me. When I finally got in there, everything went smoothly until he  
: started adding up the numbers. He then discovered that they had  
: miscalculated the tax & license by about $150. He then said he needed  
: another $150 from me. I said we had already agreed on a price and it was  
: their problem, I wasn't giving them any more money. The finance guy then  

A similar thing happend to me a year ago.  I bought a used Ford Bronco
(which has since been stolen...  :(  )  and few weeks after I paid
and took delivery, they sent a letter telling me they goofed and 
miscalculated the license renewal by $300 and that I need to send
in a check to "avoid further delay" in the processing of my registration.
The thing is, I had already received the pink slip from the DMV, so
I ignored it.  I received another letter and then the phone calls
started coming.  First from the finance guy and then from the general
manager, both hounding me for the extra money.  They left me alone
once I told them I already had the paperwork and pointed out the clause
in the contract that stated that the final price was just that: FINAL.
Afterall, they wouldn't budge if I had told them I wanted another
$300 off after the deal had been signed, right?  I told them not 
to call again and that I would not do business with them in the future.
They didn't seem to have a problem with that.  This, after all, was a
used Ford at a Toyota dealership.

I had a much better experience buying a new Pathfinder about a month
ago.  It certainly pays to buy a car on the last Sunday of the month.
It was even raining too, so they had done very little business that 
weekend and were really willing to deal.  I kept telling them I would
think about it, and they kept dropping the price.  Got a very good
deal and so far have been very please with the service.

---John
jdenune@pandora.sdsu.edu 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102850
From: brandt@cs.unc.edu (Andrew Brandt)
Subject: Seeking good Alfa Romeo mechanic.

I am looking for recommendations for a good (great?) Alfa Romeo
mechanic in South Jersey or Philadelphia or nearby.

I have a '78 Alfa Spider that needs some engine, tranny, steering work
done.  The body is in quite good shape.  The car is awful in cold
weather, won't start if below freezing (I know, I know, why drive a
Spider if there's snow on the ground ...).  It has Bosch *mechanical*
fuel injection that I am sure needs adjustment.

Any opinions are welcome on what to look for or who to call.

Email or post (to rec.autos), I will summarize if people want.

Thx, Andy (brandt@cs.unc.edu)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102851
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.020356.28944@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>I take the electrodes of the Amp/Ohm/Volt meter whatever and connect one
>to each earlobe.  Then, symmetrically insert my fingers in each of the
>spark plug boots. No cheating guys!  both hands must be used!

I have just a couple of questions about this technique.

First, what firing order should I use?  Do I start with my pointer
finger or my pinky?  Left hand or right?

And secondly, I have a 12cyl and there are two cylinders unaccounted
for.  Any suggestions?

/andy



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102852
From: dje@bmw535.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Don Eilenberger)
Subject: Re: Do trains have radar?

In article <1993Apr13.111652@usho72.hou281.chevron.com>, hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:

|> 
|>  While taking an extended Easter vacation, I was going north on I-45
|>  somewhere between Centerville, TX and Dallas, TX and I came upon a 
|>  train parked on a trestle with its locomotive sitting directly over
|>  the northbound lanes.  There appeared to be movement within the cab 
|>  and out of curiosity I slowed to 85 to get a better look.  Just as I
|>  passed from underneath the trestle, my radar detector went into full 
|>  alert - all lights lit and all chirps, beeps, and buzzes going strong.
|>  I thought I had been nailed good but no police materialized.
|> 
|>  Could this have been caused by the train's radio or what?
|> 
|> 
|>  TRAVIS

Boy, Travis..

Were you LUCKY!!.. you went under the new Texas Rangers
Stealth Patrol Car! Good thing you slowed down!

Newsgroups: rec.autos
Distribution: world
Followup-To: 
References:  <1993Apr13.111652@usho72.hou281.chevron.com>
From: dje@bmw535.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Don Eilenberger)
Organization: 
Subject: Re: Do trains have radar?
Keywords: 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102853
From: ciarlett@mizar.usc.edu (Joni Ciarletta)
Subject: Honda Accord Brake Problem

My Honda Accord just hit the magic 100,000 mile mark and now
all sorts of things are beginning to go bad. The latest problem
I am experiencing is with my brakes.  They still stop the
car fine, but once I am stopped completely, my brake pedal
will sink another 2 or 3 inches all by itself.  If feels really
strange, and I am worried my brakes will quit working one of
these days.

I checked my brake fluid, and the reservoir was full, but the
fluid itself looked really dirty (like dirty oil).  I called
my mechanic and he told me I need a new brake master cylinder,
which will cost me a whopping $250-300.

I was just wondering if anyone out there has experienced this
sort of thing.  If so, is my mechanic being honest? Or do I
simply need to have my brakes bled and new fluid put in?

Any help you could provide would be appreciated.  Please send
replies directly to me, as I rarely have a chance to read this
list.  I will post the responses if there is any interest.

Thanks,

Joni
ciarlett@mizar.usc.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102854
From: sprec-j@acsu.buffalo.edu (Joel Sprechman )
Subject: Cleaning EuroWiper Boots?

I have the EuroWiper boots in White and had to throw away the first pair
since I found no way of cleaning them after they looked almost black. Now
I have my second pair of white ones and once again they are dirty. I need
a way to clean them w/o removing them since I had to cut them to remove
them, is there a way? Or should I just buy black ones? 
thanks
-Joel

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Sprechman                             sprec-j@acsu.buffalo.edu  
University at Buffalo                      v069pff7@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu

"It's not a black/white thing, it's a homosapian thing"
"It takes a big man to cry, and an even bigger man to laugh at that man"
-Jack Handy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102855
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NISSAN (Really Station Wagon)

With the popularity of minivans, the market room for station wagons is 
squeezed out. They are not as comfortable as sedan, and don't carry as 
much as the minivans. 

This is not to say nobody wants the wagon anymore. But the demand is certainly
hampered by the minivan, and may not be economical to build a product for.

Jason Chen

A station wagon owner

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102856
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: Old Corvettes / Low insurance?

In article <C5J5MI.FMI@news.rich.bnr.ca> Peon w/o Email (Eric Youngblood) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.011805.28485@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, swr2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT WARREN ROSANDER) writes:
>|> In article <C5Csux.Fn1@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, gdhg8823@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (George Hei
>|> nz) writes:
>|> >After too many years of school I'm finally graduating and getting a real
>|> >job.  Of course I am trying to make plans of how to spend all this extra
>|> >money.  Right now I have an 89 accord, a good car, but not real sporty &
>|> >I was thinking of selling it in about two years and dropping around
>|> >$20k on a sports car of some kind.  After thinking about it, I may have a
>|> >better idea -- I'll keep the Accord until it drops and buy the car I've
>|> >always wanted -- a Corvette Stingray. My reasoning is that $8000 (accord)+
>|> >$8000 (corvette) =$16000 is less than what I would spend anyway.
>|> >
>|> >Basically, I'm thinking of a late 70's, early 80's for around $7-$10k.
>|> >My question is, what are good years to consider (for reliability, looks,
>|> >horsepower -- in that order, believe it or not, horsepower is not a main
>|> >concern, if I want to go fast, I get on my motorcycle) and what are
>|> >good prices?
>|> >
>|> >Also, what would insurance look like?  I'm male, single, 23 (I might
>|> >wait until I'm 25 to get the car = lower insurance). Would the fact that
>|> >I mainly drive the other car lower it?  Is there some type of "classic
>|> >car" or "rarely driven" insurance class for driving it under 10k miles
>|> >per year?
>|> >
>|>     My dad has a 66 vette and its on what you say 'classic insurance'.
>|>     Basically what that means is that it has restricted amount of driving
>|>     time, which basically means it cant be used as an every day car and would
>|>     probably suit your needs for limited mileage.
>|> -- 
>
        In my area, Denver, if you look around alittle you can get an
    1984 for 10,000 or less, not much less. You said your not looking
    to go fast, they are a really nice car just not real powerful.>
>In addition to restricted mileage, many classic insurance carriers also require
>that the vehicle be garaged when not in use.
>
>$0.02
>
>Ericy
>
>
>      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*
>      | Eric Youngblood                                             |
>      | Bell-Northern Research    _                                 |
>      | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~-                               |
>      |                         \,  _}                              |
>      |                           \(    +---------------------------|
>      |                                 |   Peon w/o Email privs    |
>      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102857
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: SHO clutch question (grinding noise?)

In article <C5H6F8.LDu@news.rich.bnr.ca> jcyuhn@crchh574.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (James Yuhn) writes:
>   That's not the clutch you're hearing, its the gearbox. Early SHOs have
>   a lot of what is referred to as 'gear rollover' noise. You can generally

	I have one of the first SHOs built, and _mine_ doesn't make
this noise.




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102858
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qh61m$b6l@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>It's a bit hard to "prove" a point like this, but I can compare the

	I was hoping for something like "The chassis exhibits X 
degrees of flex when subjected to forces of more than Y units.
Forces of more than Y units begin to manifest at Z miles per hour."

	Not "Well, gee, it wasn't designed to go fast because, uhh,
well, gee, it wasn't designed to go fast.  It's not a Porsche, you
know".

>come with better seatbelts, more supportive seats, a stronger
>passenger compartment cage, better brakes, a stiffer suspension,
>different tires, and a body design that takes advantage of aero
>effects to keep the car on the ground. What *do* they come with?  

	Well, as compared to the normal Taurus, the SHO comes
with more supportive seats,better brakes,a stiffer suspension,
different tires, and a body design that takes advantage of aero
effects to keep the car on the ground (or at least I think that's
what all that boy-racer plastic is for).  You're kidding yourself if
you think any car on the road has a passenger compartment made to
withstand 130 MPH impacts.  

>Compare either to the Porsche 911 and you tell me which was designed

	Oh, right.  Only 120,000 dollar cars should be driven fast.
They drive goddamn Rabbits at 120 MPH in Europe, pal, and I reckon
a Taurus is at least as capable as a Rabbit.

>certainly haven't convinced me.

	Of course not.  "Speeding-is-bad.  Speeding-is-illegal. 
I-will-not-speed.  I-love-Big-Brother."  You had your mind made up
already.

	It's interesting that lots of the roads out west had *NO*
speed limits until 1975.  

								wr




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102859
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1993Apr14.152328.15997@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>There may be a case where a speed limit sign is not necessary. But take
>them away entirely?

	Yeah, you're right.  Doing away with speed limits would just
mean huge tax increases as municipalities tried to make up for the
revenue they used to gouge from passing motorists.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102860
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <3090@shaman.wv.tek.com> andrew@frip.wv.tek.com writes:
>So is cocaine.  What's your point?

	That neither is harmful when used carefully?




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102861
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Too fast

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>Compare either to the Porsche 911 and you tell me which was designed

>	Oh, right.  Only 120,000 dollar cars should be driven fast.
>They drive goddamn Rabbits at 120 MPH in Europe, pal, and I reckon
>a Taurus is at least as capable as a Rabbit.

My whole point was not to say that the cars *couldn't* go that fast,
but that they *shouldn't* go that fast.  A family sedan designed to be
operable at 85mph doesn't suddenly become operable at 130mph because
you added some plastic aero effects, slightly wider tires, and a much
larger engine.  That's what the SHO is -- a slightly modified family
sedan with a powerful engine.  They didn't even bother improving the
*brakes.*

The Mustang is essentially the same deal as the SHO -- a big power
plant stuck in a mid-size sedan, with almost no other modifications.
I have real-life experience with the Mustang -- it handles like a
brick (except when you're invoking oversteer, of course, something I
personally avoid doing on the highway) and stopping power is
inadequate even from 80mph.  Lots of accelleration -- but the rest of
the car is not up to par.

I picked the Porsche example because they are designed with speed in
mind.  It didn't have to be the 911 -- it could have been the much
cheaper 944 or one of several Mercedes or Audi models.  All of these
cars are fairly expensive -- but so are the parts that make them
drivable at high speed.  This should be elementary.

There are a few things to keep in mind about Europe, since you brought
it up.  My Autobahn knowledge is admittedly second-hand, but I believe
the following to be true:

1. Drivers are much better disciplined in Europe than they are here.
2. The roads comprising the Autobahn are much better designed than
   they are here, and usually include animal fences.  This makes them
   far more predictable than most US highways.
3. Not all of Europe is the Autobahn.  Most places in Europe have
   speed limits that aren't out-of-line with what we used to have in
   the US -- if my friends weren't lying to me they're typically not
   much higher than 120km/h.

I strongly suspect you won't find a lot of Rabbit owners doing 120mph
(nearly 200km/h) on the Autobahn, but I could be wrong.  Some people
have no respect for their own lives.

>>You certainly haven't convinced me.

>	Of course not.  "Speeding-is-bad.  Speeding-is-illegal. 
>I-will-not-speed.  I-love-Big-Brother."  You had your mind made up
>already.

If you think so you sure don't pay attention to my postings.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102862
From: dchamber@b15news.b15.ingr.com (Doug Chamberlain)
Subject: Re: Cherokee v. Explorer

jcksnste@ACF1.NYU.EDU writes:

>Hi All,
>  Brand new to the group, so please, no flames!

>Honest opinions on Jeep Cherokee Country (not Sport) v. Ford Explorer.

>My stepfather, who ponders every major decision up to four months AFTER
>making it, is looking at one of the two.  Also, please comment on the
>importance, if any, between 4WD and 2WD.  We live in Princeton, NJ and
>will barely ever take it off road.  We learned with this last winter that
>we could really use something with a little more confidence in 20 inches of
>snow than an Olds Cutlass Eighty-Eight!!

>All replies appreciated.. he'll be pondering this for a while.  He's already
>decided on 6 cyl. over 4, so don't worry about that one..

>Thanks!

>-->Steve

  I own a new ford Explorer, I really love it!
I drove the Jeep and besides the power I just didn't see
spending the money for it! The Jeep was great but I just
love the Explorer! I have a 2WD and I got through the blizzard 
of 93 just fine! I drove about 400 miles in the worst part of    
storm and it never faulterd!     My own Opinion  
                                    Doug                  i













>(jcksnste@acf1.nyu.edu)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102863
From: n8643084@henson.cc.wwu.edu (owings matthew)
Subject: Re: Ranger vs. S-10 opinions

If your buying a compact pickup do yourself a favor and wait a few months
for the 1994 GMC sonoma.  Magazines are saying it is day and night over the
current truck.  It's georgeous, solid, and fast (200hp Vortec 4.3 V-6).
Should whip the Ranger in every area too (accept maybe payload).  And always
pick a GMC over a Chevy.  GMC's are always so much better looking.  Man, I 
miss the Comanche.

Marty and Matt Owings
'87 250 ninja type rider dudes

"It's a feeling that we all wanna know
and it's an obsession to some
to keep the world in you rearview mirror
while you try to run down the sun"

"Wheels" by Rhestless Heart.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102864
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: LH Workmanship

I just visited the NY Auto Show, and saw two LH cars on the floor: Eagle 
Vision and Dodge Intrepid. 

Really nice I must say. Very attractive styling, lots of features and room, 
at a competitive price.  

Unfortunately, the workmanship is quite disappointing. On BOTH cars,
the rubber seals around the window and door fell off. It turns out
the seals are just big grooved rubber band. It goes on just by pressing
the groove against the tongue on the door frame. Surely it would come
off easily.

I am not sure how many of this kind of pooring engineering/assembly
problems that will show up later.

I may still consider buying it, but only when it establishes a good
track record.

Jason Chen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102865
From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr14.130427.21349@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> dje@bmw535.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Don Eilenberger) writes:
>
>In article <1qgi8eINNhs5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca>, yiklam@unixg.ubc.ca (Yik Chong Lam) writes:
>|> Hello,
>|> 
>|> 	Does anyone know how to take out the bolt under the engine
>|> compartment?  Should I turn clockwise or counter?  I tried any kind
>|> of lubricants, WD-40,etc, but I still failed!
>|> 	Do you think I can use a electric drill( change to a suitable
>|> bit ) to turn it out?  If I can succeed, can I re-tighten it not too
>|> tight, is it safe without oil leak?
>|> Thank you very much in advance------  Winson

  I would suggest you take the car to the nearest Chevron dealer, with
your own oil and filter.  Ask for an oil change.  It will cost less
than $10.  Watch him/her do it.  Just from watching someone do a job,
you will be able to learn and remember the sequence, and do it right
when you do it yourself the next time.  Besides, when he/she loosens
the drain nut, the next time around it will be easier for you.

  If it is stuck, use an impact wrench.  Not too much force though.
Use a new washer each time you put the nut back.....

-S
ssave@ole.cdac.com



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102866
From: maloney@badlands.NoDak.edu (Pat T Maloney)
Subject: Pontiac e-mail Car clubs


I am interested to know if there is any Pontiac e-mail car clubs out
there?  Has anyone started one, or is anybody thinking about starting one.
Thanks for any info you can give me

maloney@badlands.NoDak.edu



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102867
From: sylveste@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles

In article <Apr09.084236.19413@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
> In article <1q34huINNjrv@uwm.edu> qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>>  Subarus don't sell that well, although the percentage of Subes purchased
>>  with AWD is probably relatively high. 
> 
> 56% of all subarus sold are 4wd/awd.
> 
>> Audi is backing down on the number
>>  of models it offers with AWD.  Before, one could purchase an 80 or 90 with
>>  AWD, but now it is reserved strictly for the top line model; the same goes
>>  for the 100/200.
> 
> the 80/80Q has been eliminated from the US lineup, but the 90 is still
> available in quattro version, though it is hardly cheap.  they are
> still true to their pledge of making 4wd an option on their entire
> line of cars.  now, if only they will bring in the s4 wagon..
> 
> eliot

Before the S4 became the S4 it was called the 200 turbo quattro 20v.
This model did come in a wagon, a very quick wagon.  Very rare also.

                                                   Mike Sylvester  Umass


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102868
From: neilson@seoul.mpr.ca (Robert Neilson)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

[sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]

> That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselves
> and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is 
> imminent.
>
> Steve Heracleous

You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
me - those kids are mean.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102869
From: hanguyen@megatest.com (Ha Nguyen)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr14.203800.12566@progress.com> damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio) writes:
>bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss) writes:
>
>>You could take a screw driver and hammer and start punching holes in
>>various locations and when some black slippery stuff starts pouring
>>out then you would know that the oil drain plug is nearby (within a foot
>>or two anyway). Close the holes with toilet paper before refileing with oil
>>though.
>
>You have to *refill* the engine with oil! Wow, no wonder I can't get
>an engine to last more than my first oil change. Don't forget to
>punch holes in the radiator too, it will spray nice refreshing water
                    ^^^^^^^^
>on the engine and keep it nice & cool. ;-)
>
>-Steve

Gee, you really make me confused.  What is radiator?  Where is it located?
What does it look like?  Will it release any radiation (since it sounds 
like radia-tion genera-tor) when you punch holes?

hanguyen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102870
From: ae015@Freenet.carleton.ca (Steve Hui)
Subject: Re: Instead of a Saturn SC2, What???


One thing that everyone is forgetting in this argument
over the pricing of the SC1 vs. the Japanese cars is
the Saturns "no-dicker sticker".  This makes the Saturn's
price low in comparison to the inflated base prices of
the Japanese competition on paper, but in reality, one
could dicker several hundred dollars off the price of
the Japanese cars.

Admittedly, though, here in Canada, at least, the SC2 
is in the same price class as the Civic Si, not the
SC1.

Steve Hui

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102871
From: theckel@col.hp.com (Tim Heckel)
Subject: Re: Instead of a Saturn SC2, What???

For those that are interested I got my fully optioned (Air, ABS,
sunroof) '92 SE-R in September 1991 for $13,555 in Sacramento, CA. It
was one of the 1st '92s sold, few of the dealers had any, no local
dealer had an ABS equipped SE-R.  I went straight to the fleet manager
at the dealership I liked, told him what I wanted, made him aware that I
knew what his price should be.  He called me back with exactly what I
wanted from a dealer 125mi away, I took delivery the next day. 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102872
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: LH Workmanship

In article <1993Apr15.203750.25764@walter.bellcore.com> jchen@ctt.bellcore.com writes:
>I just visited the NY Auto Show, and saw two LH cars on the floor: Eagle 
>Vision and Dodge Intrepid. 
>
>Really nice I must say. Very attractive styling, lots of features and room, 
>at a competitive price.  
>
>Unfortunately, the workmanship is quite disappointing. On BOTH cars,
>the rubber seals around the window and door fell off. It turns out
>the seals are just big grooved rubber band. It goes on just by pressing
>the groove against the tongue on the door frame. Surely it would come
>off easily.

Lack of build quality was the thing  I notced on the first 2 LH's I
saw months back. The panel gaps were large and non-uniform between
the 2 cars I saw - the kind of thing you expect and accept on a
Mustang - but not from Chrysler's savior.  I drove one of the low
end cars, and thought it was more than adequate. I'd prefer
an LH to a Taurus from my brief experience.

Craig

>
>I am not sure how many of this kind of pooring engineering/assembly
>problems that will show up later.
>
>I may still consider buying it, but only when it establishes a good
>track record.
>
>Jason Chen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102873
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <bob1.734909414@cos> bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes:
>In <1993Apr14.045526.21945@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>
>>In article <1qg19v$5ju@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> mhartman@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Mark Hartman) writes:
>>Driving 130 in a straight line is fine, you very soon become aclimated 
>>to it. It's only a rush when there are corners that you don't
>>think you can make.
>
>>On a clear autobahn, 130 is nothing. In the U.S. 99% of people and
>>all judges would label you insane and it is difficult to persuade
>>people otherwise.
>
>Sure, but the surface condition of most good autobahns is far better

The quality of autobahns is something of a myth. The road surface
isn't much different to a typical TX freeway. They are better
in terms of lighting, safety, signs, roadmarkings etc. I'd have
no problem driving 130 on most US freeways, as it is, I save it
for the backroads, which really are more likely to be dangerous.

>than most of the roads here. A dip in the asphalt that you test your
>shocks on at 60 will kill you at 130. Don't get me wrong, I love to

It would have to be quite severe. I don't recall any US freeway,
without road damage warnings, that i would regard as unsafe
at 130 in any decent, well damped car. Note that my definition
of decent, well damped, would exclude most typical American sedans.

>drive quickly and they say my Probe will do 130, but that's 30 more
>than I've ever tried in it cause there isn't a decent enough piece
>of road hereabouts.

I don't know where you live, but I would be much more worried
about cops, other traffic etc. than the road surface at 130.
It just isn't that fast or that dangerous. If you have a Probe
GT, no problem. The 4cyl models I have driven would be
likely to be unpredictable at higher speeds.

Craig
>
>>Craig
>>>
>>>-- 
>>>   Mark Hartman         mhartman@umcc.umcc.umich.edu
>>>   Kalamazoo, MI        bk405@cleveland.freenet.edu
>>>    "I'm naked in the school!" - Sleepyhead -
>>>
>
>Bob
>
>

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102874
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <C5JnK3.JKt@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>	Wasn't the original intent of the reverse lights for the driver, so he
>could see where he was backing up???  Although reverse lights on the sides

No. reverse lights are to warn others that you are backing up. They
aren't bright enough to (typically) see by without the brake and tail
lights. 

>are useful for telling whether cars are backing up out perpendicular to the
>path of the car, I don't think warnings were their original intents, since they
>are colored white.

Well, red and orange were already taken. Maybe white defines the direction
that the car is moving in.


If you really want to be able to see behind you, get some fog lamps for
the back of the car. These work very well - and are a good way to get
rid of tailgaters if you get that rush of testosterone.

Craig
>
>
>
>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
>*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
>*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102875
From: jek@icf.hrb.com (Joe Karolchik)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

(I deleted your name because I don't want to sound accusative in my remark)
> 
> This is a two-sided problem. Unfortunately our culture has been deteriorating over time.
> The "breeding" of these low-life's is getting worse; our justice system is at best
> extremely weak to handle these problems. That is why low-abiding citizens should have
> the power to protect themselves and their property using deadly force if necessary 
> anywhere a threat is imminent.
> 
> My Camaro (my pride and joy) got stolen right out of my driveway a few years back.
> The persons that did that were eventually caught (lucky for me!) but not before
> having trashed the car.
> 
> On another occasion, on my way from Texas to Florida, I had stopped in a small motel
> for the night in a small town somewhere in Florida. About 5 youths were disturbing my
> car, setting off the alarm and challenging me to come out. When I and another tenant
> walked out with a 357 Magnum and a 45 automatic respectively, they vanished. 
> Needless to say, I immediately packed-up and left.
> 
> Watch out for car-jacking and staged accidents. They can be deadly!
> 
I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if 
you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your
alarm?  I can think of worse things in the world.  Glad you got out of there
before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.

We can all ask "what's happening to society these days", but don't forget to
ask another important question too: What effort am I expending to make it any
different than it is?

Just my thoughts,
Joe Karolchik

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102876
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

In <1993Apr14.230524.9578@ctp.com> bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas) writes:

>In article <zdem0a.734707529@hgo7> zdem0a@hgo7.hou.amoco.com (Donna Martz) writes:

>[Stuff Deleted]

>>
>>Excuse me, but I understood what Mr. Smith meant.  AND, I have often observed 
>>when traffic is "blocked solid", that if a few people yeild to the "moron"
>>who is impatiently riding bumpers, the slug at the front of the pack will
>>miraculously wake up, change lanes, and viola! no more jam.  Granted the
>>situation here does not apply to rush hour in a crowded city.  But I have
>>observed this situation regularly on your average interstate, six or 
>>eight sets of cars, side by side, bunched up in a "pack" with open 
>>freeway fore and aft as far as you can see.  The people who refuse to
>>yeild as a "point of honor" are just as annoying as the slug in the front.

>I agree that if traffic is all blocked up and you want to pass, you might
>not feel like moving over for someone behind you because you don't want to
>give them that one car-length, when they should just wait like you are.
>BUT, if you're one of those people that just sit's behind the person, and
>doesn't flash them with the high beams, or pull left and flash them, or
>ride their bumper, or otherwise tell them that you *do* in fact want to 
>go by, and you're not just drafting them, then get the hell out of the 
>way of someone who will!  I especially hate it when you flash someone at
>the back of a line and they don't 'pass it on'.  

So after I've flashed my lights at the chap in front and he doesn't
'pass it on' (and few if any do), what next? On major highways, 3 or more
lanes in each direction, keeping to the extreme right blocks folks who
are entering. Also, as someone posted in this thread, here in the D.C.
area we have a few left lane exits (sounds like 66). If you wait until
the last minute to get in the left lane you won't, cause these yoyos
won't make room.

We have a particularly bad strech here in Merryland just over the Cabin
John bridge. There are two very long entry ramps which all the hurry-up
yahoos dive into cause they want to get ahead. When we get to the point
where these ramps merge, all hell breaks lose. The result is that traffic
which was moving at 55 on the VA side of the bridge, stalls on t'other
side. If these dingbats had stayed in lane, allowed the folks coming up
the two ramps to merge, we would still be doing 55. Instead we do start-
stop for 4 miles. Dave Barry's idea of a laser equipped car would be
real useful here.

Bob

PS: If you drive the beltway and want to merge, look for a brown Probe
with a silver haired driver, then use your signals - I don't read minds,
but I do try to be courteous. They told me courtesy was contagious, but
I guess the folks around here have had their shots :-/


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102877
From: smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5JGC4.AJJ@dove.nist.gov>, keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys) writes:
>I know that this isn't the group for it, but since you brought it up,
>does anyone have any idea why they haven't "bombed" the Waco cult?    

Perhaps it is because witnesses who have left the compound have all
testified that the BATF shot first, they they did not identify themselves
before tossing in concussion grenades (not that anyone inside could have
_heard_ such identification after being near a concussion grenade) and
the announcement from the BATF that they have sealed the warrant under
which they were operating - which was a _search_ warrant, by the way,
_not_ an arrest warrant.  In short, perhaps because the BATF is wildly
out of control and perhaps calmer heads have realized that bombing a
compound full of woman and children will not improve their position.
There is a real chance that Koresh will be able to prove self-defense
in court.  That will leave - what? - four officers dead and no one to
blame but the BATF.

Followups directed to alt.activism, where the discussion has raged nearly
as long as the seige, and which shows every sign of not giving up nearly
as soon.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want,
it is the freedom to do whatever we are able.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102878
From: alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung)
Subject: Re: electronic odometers (was: Used BMW Question ..... ???)

In article <9833@dirac.physics.purdue.edu> lovall@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Daniel L. Lovall) writes:
>
>It shouldn't be THAT hard if you know much about digital electronics.  If the
>counter is made with standard TTL chips, all you should need to do is find
>the chip(s) used for counting, figure out what mileage you want to put in,
>and preset it but wiring the preset pins directly to low/high (you'd also have
>to know what the conventions are for low and high).  It might be a little more
>involved than this, but it shouldn't be beyond someone with a BSEE or BS EET.
>All the display does is convert what the counter chips say into digits using
>a "translation table" stored in ROM.
>

Nobody is using discrete IC's to do these functions anymore if at
all.  I doubt any of the Motor electronics had any to start with.
...Much less TTL.

I can almost guarantee that it'll a fruitless attempt to figure out
how BMW does it without breaking anything and invalidating any
warranty  on the car.  If you're lucky, you'd still be able to
start the car.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102879
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:

>In article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU> ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes:
>>This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
>>Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
>>throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
>>cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
>>a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
>>in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
>>made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
>>doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.

	The girl's OK, actually, and she recovered well enough to go home.  I
don't know if she has any permanent damage, though.  Just in case anybody was
concerned...

>>
>>What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
>>can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
>>20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
>>
>>Erik velapold

	If people start forcing others to take responsibility for their actions
things like this wouldn't happen.  Untill we stop blaming outside causes, and
start blaming the criminals, we will continue to let things like this happen.


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102880
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: VIPER


Last night I had a dream that my dad bought a Viper.
I took it out for a test drive, without his knowledge,
and had to push it all the way home just to avoid a ticket.
Wierd dream, I wonder what it means....

Roy.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102881
From: syck5280@miller.cs.uwm.edu (Steven B Syck)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <NEILSON.93Apr15135919@seoul.mpr.ca> neilson@seoul.mpr.ca (Robert Neilson) writes:
>[sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]
>
>> That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselves
>> and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is 
>> imminent.
>>
>> Steve Heracleous
>
>You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
>go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
>job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
>me - those kids are mean.

	As a stong self-defense advocate, you're 'statement', does littel
but irk me.  Of course shooting someone because they throw a rock at your
car is out of the question, but what if they disabled your car with their
rock and then wanted to come kill/rape/rob/beat/ or otherwise harm you,
your wife, kids?  
	I think you would like the power to defend yourself in this situation,
wouldn't you?  Or is it that you value the lives of such rock throwers
more than your own or those of your family?  
	Don't think it couldn't happen to you.  From the sounds of it here
it has happened to a few people.  

	Please do not misunderstand.  The only justification for using
deadly force on someone, is that if you don't, it will mean your own 
death or grave bodily harm.  I am far far away from supporting
vilante justice or anything like that..

	Oh, and if you mean to be funny, please add the appropriate :-)
	
Followups to talk.politics.guns please...  we're getting a bit off track
here....

-------   Steve Syck        syck5280@miller.cs.uwm.edu        --------


	

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102882
From: barnesm@sun.com (Mark Barnes - SunSoft)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

...and in San Francisco recently, some of our finest examples of humanity
poured oil over a road so that vehicles going uphill would suddnely become
immobile, and then they would walk right up to the vehicles and make their
demands known.
--------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Mark Barnes, System Engineer    |  <insert standard disclaimers here>
SunSoft                         |
Corporate Technical Escalations |  I speak for myself, an individual,
Menlo Park, CA, USA             |  not for the company for which I work.
barnesm@vavau.Corp.Sun.COM      |
--------------------------------+---------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102883
From: behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <1993Apr14.155159.32619@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL) writes:
>Yes, I have the same questions. What makes me upset is that R12 costs are
>skyrocketing and in fact can't be bought anymore in my area.  Also this is yet
>another way mechanics and dealers can RIP-OFF customers. Also I was reading
>that the new refrigerant is not compatible with the r12 system and that it
>would cost $ 300 upto a $ 1000 to retrofit a car with the old R12 system.
>ALthough it is important to consider the environment I think the sudden ban is
>a slap in the face for the consumer. Why is it that the consumer should have
>to pay for the retrofit? The auto companies should have seen this coming? Also
>why is it that the governments of the world were so quick in banning freon use
>and yet so slow in banning gasoline. In my opinion gasoline is just as
>hazardous as anything else.  Why can't they start proposing bans on this and
>switch to natural gas or electric? The technology is there. Hopefully some
>chemist will come up with another alternative coolant that will be compatible
>with the old system.
>Al H.

	Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for
R12.  You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning Society
(MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per
retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash those
R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very shaky
technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst).

	Does this piss you off?  Yes?  Write a letter to your congressman, to
your senator, to the president, to the EPA, and to the DOT and complain.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102884
From: behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: Carb Cleaners - Do they work???  (Performance?) Carb rebuild?

In article <1993Apr15.062557.1224@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>In article <C5Fyt4.JBy@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> schaffer@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Doug Schaffer) writes:
>>
>>How hard is a carb rebuild for moderately experienced backyard mechanic?
>>I've done my clutch and miscellaneous little engine fixes.
>
>The hardest part is usually getting the darned thing off the intake
>manifold.  Rebuilding a carb is fun, if you're into things with
>lots of little parts.  I used to rebuild them for all my friends'
>cars in high school, so it doesn't take a PhD.  Buy a carb rebuilding
>kit from an auto supply store.  Buy a gallon of the best carb cleaning
>solvent you can find (do they still make Tyme?) -- as a rule of thumb,
>buy the one with the scariest warning labels.  Put it into a metal(!)
>bucket.  Make yourself a dipping can by punching holes in the bottom of
>a coffee can and attaching a wire handle to it.  If the carb cleaner
>doesn't strip the paint right off the coffee can, you're not
>using the right stuff.  Use the can to soak the little stuff, and
>just hang the big parts from a coat hanger.  Wash them off with a
>garden hose, wipe off excess water with paper towels, and air dry.
>Then remember where all the little parts go.  Follow the rebuild
>kit's instructions concerning float height, choke tension, etc.
>Bolt it back on the engine and admire the super-clean carb on the
>filthy engine.

	Heed this man's warnings!  If you get carb cleaner this strong on
your hands, your hands will be eaten away.  Not pretty.  Hence the "dipping
can" method.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102885
From: gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

Why crawl under the car at all? I have a machine I got for my boat that 
pulls the oil out under suction through the dip stick tube. It does an
excellent job and by moving the suction tube around, you can get more 
old oil out than by using the drain plug. I think I paid $25 at E&B Marine.
The oil goes into a steel 3 gal can - wait until it cools and decant into
your favorite device. I use soft drink bottles. Easy to take them down to
the local oil recycle center.

FORZA!


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102886
From: garyl@moe.corollary.COM (Gary Lorman)
Subject: Re: electronic odometers (was: Used BMW Question ..... ???)

In article <9833@dirac.physics.purdue.edu> lovall@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Daniel L. Lovall) writes:
>In article <CONRADIE.40.734872761@firga.sun.ac.za> CONRADIE@firga.sun.ac.za (Gerrit Conradie) writes:
>
>.....
>
>>However, if I were to design a BMW's electronics, I will use a counter to 
>>count the number of times the car passed 1 million miles (or whatever), and 
>>store it in the car computer's memory. This could be read when doing a 
>>diagnostics test. Ditto for the date of the odometer. As easy as this is, I 
>>don't know why manafucturers don't do it (don't they?) to prevent illegal 
>>odometer tampering.
>>
>>But as a previous writer said, it will in any case take aeons to reset an 
>>odometer, mechanic or electronic by simulating a driving car. It will be 
>>easier to reprogram it. How, I don't know.
>
>It shouldn't be THAT hard if you know much about digital electronics.  If the
>counter is made with standard TTL chips, all you should need to do is find
>the chip(s) used for counting, figure out what mileage you want to put in,
>and preset it but wiring the preset pins directly to low/high (you'd also have
>to know what the conventions are for low and high).  It might be a little more
>involved than this, but it shouldn't be beyond someone with a BSEE or BS EET.
>All the display does is convert what the counter chips say into digits using
>a "translation table" stored in ROM.
>
>selah,
>
>Dan
>
But, those chips are probably inside a custom chip, (to make it smaller and
use less power) and the preset/data pins are not going to be available.
It would probably not be TTL but might be CMOS 
(wider operating voltage range), not that the tecnology would make 
much difference.
Plus the custom chip would probably be potted (encapsulated with epoxy).
Good luck.

-- 
--garyl-------------------------------------------------------------------------
		"Any shark that gets to be 11 or 12 feet long with 
	      300 big teeth can be considered dangerous" - 'Shark Bowl '92'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102887
From: cracker@tc.fluke.COM (Don Graham)
Subject: Re: JEEP WRANGLER - OPINI

In article <1qht5eINNjdf@hp-col.col.hp.com>, tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:
> I have had two Wranglers, and still have the second right now. It's a
> 1991 Wrangler Base model with the big I-6 4.0L engine, hard top, no
> power steering or air conditioning. Runs like a top. Has about 37k on
> it. Has never been in the shop. I can change my own oil (nice tall
> vehicle). I can lube it myself (11 fittings). I occasionally take it to
> Jiffy Lube to check the differentials and do the oil change there.
> 
> My previous Wrangler had nary a problem either. Here in Colorado there'
> more Jeeps than BMW's, Mercedes, Volvos, and the like together! In fact
> Jeep has been called the Colorado Car for a while. They hold their value
> well, and are very easy to resell. Mine cost right around $14.2K new. Of
> course, I didn't blow money on an Islander, Sahara, or Renegade which
                   ^^^^^^^^^^
I have a 92 Wrangler Sahara and paid $14.1 new (including the rebate).

> are just Wranglers with fancy inside stuff.
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
After driving a CJ-5 for 6 years, that fancy stuff is pretty nice.

> 
> The cars are primitive, ride like a dump truck, etc.. But if you live in
> an area that gets around 140" of snow per winter, you'd have one too.
> They'll go anywhere (with a winch) and are easy to get parts for. The
          ^^^^^^^^^^^
I like my Wrangler, but when doing some serious off roading, it can't
keep up with a CJ-5 because of ground clearance and limited suspension
travel.  I do have a winch and would like to get an ARB air-locker in the
future.

> 4.0L engine puts out 180-190 HP and gets around 20mpg. Not bad.

I love the 4.0.  

> 
> Just my experience. I'm sure there are bad ones out there, but that goes
> for any make and model.
> 
>

Don Graham
 



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102888
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qkon8$3re@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:

[stuff about autobahn and safety of sho at speed deleted]
>The Mustang is essentially the same deal as the SHO -- a big power

The Mustang is a much worse case of design irresponsibility than the
SHO. 
>plant stuck in a mid-size sedan, with almost no other modifications.
>I have real-life experience with the Mustang -- it handles like a
>brick (except when you're invoking oversteer, of course, something I

Its hard to predicatbaly drift a stock Mustang because
of the suspension.

>personally avoid doing on the highway) and stopping power is
>inadequate even from 80mph.  Lots of accelleration -- but the rest of
>the car is not up to par.

Yes. When i think Mustang, I think school-bus +  F16 motor. In
my mind the Mustang should be fitted with a speed limiter at 80-90
or so. It just isn't safe, check out your local junkyard, Mustangs
outnumber other cars by a proportion way in excess of sales in
junkyards.

I find it astonishing the CU or somesuchlike has not jumped on the
Mustang for poor brakes in relation to power. Ford should at least
standardize on the SVO rear brakes for all 5.0's.



>
>I picked the Porsche example because they are designed with speed in
>mind.  It didn't have to be the 911 -- it could have been the much
>cheaper 944 or one of several Mercedes or Audi models.  All of these
>cars are fairly expensive -- but so are the parts that make them
>drivable at high speed.  This should be elementary.
>
>There are a few things to keep in mind about Europe, since you brought
>it up.  My Autobahn knowledge is admittedly second-hand, but I believe
>the following to be true:
>
>1. Drivers are much better disciplined in Europe than they are here.

True of Northern Europe, latin countries are something else.

>2. The roads comprising the Autobahn are much better designed than
Kindof true. remember they were build by adolf in the '30's.

>   they are here, and usually include animal fences.  This makes them
>   far more predictable than most US highways.

Yes.

>3. Not all of Europe is the Autobahn.  Most places in Europe have

"Autobahn" is the german word for freeway. Other countries have
different names for loose equivalents; autostrada, autoroute, motorway
etc.

>   speed limits that aren't out-of-line with what we used to have in
>   the US -- if my friends weren't lying to me they're typically not
>   much higher than 120km/h.

Europe did seem on the brink of a 130kmh limit. It hasn't passed as
far as I know. typical speeds in western europe are much higher than
the US. Law enforcement is negligible in my experience (comapred
to the US) as there is no revenue enhancement motivation. The things
you really notice are the higher speed differentials, and the more
professional attitude to driving. You just never see two cars
running parallel at 55.1 mph oblivious to all around them.

>
>I strongly suspect you won't find a lot of Rabbit owners doing 120mph
>(nearly 200km/h) on the Autobahn, but I could be wrong.  Some people

You're wrong. GTI's  go this fast. Just kind of noisy, not the ideal

autobahn car. A lot of times you see cars being driven with the drivers
foot on the floor. How do I know? - when you're not making any ground
on the identical car in front of you!

>have no respect for their own lives.

If something happens at 130-150 you're dead, but the same goes for much
over 35. Driving at high speed forces you to concentrate. I feel much
safer driving 130+ on the autobahn than 60-80 in typical US traffic
because most people seem to be awake. I've never seen any driver reading
a book on an autobahn, I see it all too often in the US.

Craig

It just doesn't *seem* fast after 30 minutes or so of aclimation. everybody
drives that fast, no big deal. 

Craig
>
>>>You certainly haven't convinced me.
>
>>	Of course not.  "Speeding-is-bad.  Speeding-is-illegal. 
>>I-will-not-speed.  I-love-Big-Brother."  You had your mind made up
>>already.
>
>If you think so you sure don't pay attention to my postings.
>
>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.com



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102889
From: srihari@cirrus.com (Srihari Shoroff)
Subject: Re: Instead of a Saturn SC2, What???

In <Ifn=sPO00iV18_A8NZ@andrew.cmu.edu> jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason M. Roth) writes:

>>R&T had an article on cars of the SC1 ilk and they liked the Civic Ex,
>>the Escort GT and the MX-3 best of all, and the SC1 was way down the
>>list except for braking.

>I just looked at that article; first of all, this summary is inaccurate;
>of 10 cars, the SC1 was 5th, right behind these mentioned and the Suzuki
>Swift (!). As has been pointed out, it was a semi-silly comparison; the
>Saturn was at least $500 cheaper than the MX-3 and Escort (admittedly
>negligible, but an issue), and $1500 (!)less than the Honda. The stated
>goal was a base under $12k; the Honda was $500 over, while the SC2 at
>the same price was excluded. In other words, they let the best Honda
>play, but not the best Saturn.  Note that the Saturn did beat the $13k

I dont know about the car comparison but as far as the price goes rest
assured that the street prices for the MX-3 and Escort and (maybe) even
the Honda will be lesser than that of the Saturn you're talking about.
All price comparisons I've seen are based on MSRP and of course the
saturn dealer will sell the car for sticker price whereas the others
will do it way below sticker.

Srihari


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102890
From: neil@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Neil Williams)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

larose@austin.cs.utk.edu (Brian LaRose) writes:

>This just a warning to EVERYBODY on the net.  Watch out for
>folks standing NEXT to the road or on overpasses.   They can
>cause SERIOUS HARM to you and your car.  

>(just a cliff-notes version of my story follows)

>10pm last night, I was travelling on the interstate here in
>knoxville,  I was taking an offramp exit to another interstate
>and my wife suddenly screamed and something LARGE hit the side
>of my truck.  We slowed down, but after looking back to see the
>vandals standing there, we drove on to the police station.

>She did get a good look at the guy and saw him "cock his arm" with
>something the size of a cinderblock, BUT I never saw him. We are 
>VERY lucky the truck sits up high on the road; if it would have hit
>her window, it would have killed her. 

>The police are looking for the guy, but in all likelyhood he is gone. 

>I am a very good driver (knock on wood), but it was night-time and
>I never saw the guy.  The police said they thought the motive was to
>hit the car, have us STOP to check out the damage, and then JUMP US,
>and take the truck.  

>PLEASE BE AWARE OF FOLKS.  AND FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, PLEASE DON'T STOP!!!!

>peace.


>-- 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>brian larose  larose@cs.utk.edu   #12, 3103 Essary Rd. Knoxville, TN 37918.

>{}

As long as we're on the subject... Several years ago myself and two others
were riding in the front of a Toyota pickup heading south on Interstate 5
north of Seattle, WA. Someone threw a rock of an overpass and hit our
windshield. Not by accident I'm sure, it was impossible to get up to the
overpass quickly to see who did it. We figured it was kids, reported it and
left.
A couple of years ago it happend again and killed a guy at my company. He was
in his mid-fourties and left behind a wife and children. Turned out there was
a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old
that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do?
I don't think I'll over forget this story.
Neil Williams, Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA.
.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102891
From: toml@miles.ca.boeing.com (Tom Locke)
Subject: $22600 Subaru SVX -  Good deal?

Hi netters,

My friend is seriously thinking of getting the Subaru SVX. There is
a local dealer here in Seattle selling them for $22600, with
Touring package, that's $7400 off from MSRP. He thinks it's a 
very good deal (and I think so too). Since he knows I have access to
the net, he would like to get anyone's opinion about this car, especially
in the area of reliability and maintenanability.
Please send e-mail to me as my friend doesn't have access to the net.

My opinion about this car is, you get a lot for $22600:
auto everything (tranny, climate control, windows, locks, folddow rear seet),
full wheel drive, 2+2, fast (143 top spped), heavy (3580lb);-)

Thanks in advacne!
-- 
Tom Locke                         Work: (206) 865-6568
Boeing Computer Services        E-mail: toml@voodoo.boeing.com 
P.O. Box 24346  M/S 7K-20           or: uunet!bcstec!voodoo!toml
Seattle, WA  98124-0346

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102892
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NISSAN (Really Station Wagon)


this week's autoweek talks about how wagons are getting back in vogue.
i wouldn't mind an audi s4 wagon (great stealth value) but you'll
never catch me dead in a minivan!


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102893
From: dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1qke5b$mc4@spool.mu.edu> jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Jason Hanson) writes:
>>From article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU>, by ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi"):
>>> This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
>>> Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
>>> throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
>>> cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
>
>About a year ago, some kids tossed a rock off an overpass on I-94 near Eau
>Claire, Wisconsin and it killed the driver below.  (I believe he was a
>schoolteacher from Minnesota.)

Here in Houston a couple years ago a young pregnant woman was killed
in a similar manner.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102894
From: dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <1993Apr15.161531.11737@newsgate.sps.mot.com> rapw20@email.sps.mot.com writes:
>
>their problem, I wasn't giving them any more money. The finance guy then  
>brought in the manager on duty who proceeded to give me a hard time. I  
>reminded him that I was the customer and I didn't think I should be  
>treated like that and that if he didn't back off he could forget the whole  
>deal. He made some smart remark so I told him where he could stick it,  
>snatched back my check and left. Needless to say, they were not pleased by  
>the turn of events.

That's nothing.  When a friend of mine went shopping for a small
sedan a few years ago, she brought me along as a token male so
the salespeople wouldn't give her the "bimbo" treatment.
Her first choice was a Mazda 323, and second choice was a Nissan
Sentra.  We went to a Mazda dealership and described what "we"
wanted.  We started negotiating on the price, and the salesdroid
kept playing the "let me run this price by the sales manager".  After
playing the "good salesman, bad salesman" game, we finally told him
that if he didn't have the authority to negotiate a price, perhaps
we should be speaking directly to someone who did.  He brought in
the sales manager who proceeded to dick us around with every trick
in the book.  (Read Remar Sutton's "Don't Get Taken Every Time" for a
list.)  Finally, after playing a few more rounds of "you'll have to
work with us on this price", also known as "each time you come up a
thousand dollars we'll come down ten", the salesmanager gave a signal to
his two sales cronies, stood up, and said "well, we can't come down any
more so I guess we can't help you" and they trouped out of the room,
leaving us sitting in the salesman's office all by ourselves.  Hmm.
I'd read that sleazy salesmen sometimes bug their own offices so they
can leave and listen in on couples discussing the sales offer, and
I mentioned this aloud to my friend while we were sitting there wondering
why they would leave us in the office instead of showing us to the
door.  For lack of anything better to do, I picked up the phone on
the desk and called another Mazda dealership, asked for a salesman,
and began discussing what kind of price they would consider.  A few
sentences into the conversation, Mr. Salesmanager broke into the line
(!) and began telling me how rude he thought it was that I would call
another dealership from "his" phone!  I said that since he'd announced
that our business was over, he shouldn't care, and every time I tried
to talk to the other sales guy the sales manager would drown out our
voices with his own.  (How did he know that I was using the phone,
anyway?)  Finally, I hung up and we headed out of the showroom.
Sales manager and cronies come out of a little unmarked room and he
begins to berate us again.  We say that we won't bother him anymore,
we're going next door to the Nissan dealership.

Then comes the part I wish I could have videotaped.  As we go out
the front door, the sales manager SHOUTS across the entire showroom,
customers and all, "Go ahead!  You DESERVE to buy a Nissan!"
So my friend bought a Sentra.

Just so the guilty won't go unpunished, I'll mention that the
sales manager's name was Gary Tusone.  From his manner, his
refusal to come down to a reasonable price, and his anger at the
end, my guess is that he had bet our original salesman (who was
a young novice) that he'd be able to get at least X dollars out of
us, and he was steamed that we wouldn't fall for his slimy tricks.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102895
From: barnesm@sun.com (Mark Barnes - SunSoft)
Subject: Re: LH Workmanship


I was following an example of the LH the other day, and noticed the fit
between the tunk lid and the rear bumper.   The gap was quite small on
the left side, but much larger on the right.  Blech!!!

---Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102896
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In <1993Apr14.045526.21945@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:

>In article <1qg19v$5ju@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> mhartman@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Mark Hartman) writes:
>>
>> I don't know why you are complaining about 130.  Alot of us have cars that
>>can easily top that. Most that go 130 are built to do it also and can handle
>>the speed.  Why complain and just join in on the fast fun ?  Can I ask.
>>Have any of you been at the speed of 130 ?  Its a rush.

>Driving 130 in a straight line is fine, you very soon become aclimated 
>to it. It's only a rush when there are corners that you don't
>think you can make.

>On a clear autobahn, 130 is nothing. In the U.S. 99% of people and
>all judges would label you insane and it is difficult to persuade
>people otherwise.

Sure, but the surface condition of most good autobahns is far better
than most of the roads here. A dip in the asphalt that you test your
shocks on at 60 will kill you at 130. Don't get me wrong, I love to
drive quickly and they say my Probe will do 130, but that's 30 more
than I've ever tried in it cause there isn't a decent enough piece
of road hereabouts.

>Craig
>>
>>-- 
>>   Mark Hartman         mhartman@umcc.umcc.umich.edu
>>   Kalamazoo, MI        bk405@cleveland.freenet.edu
>>    "I'm naked in the school!" - Sleepyhead -
>>

Bob



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102897
From: wanderer@camelot.bradley.edu (Kevin Murphy)
Subject: old license plates wanted


  Hi.. Me and My roomate are going to redecorate the "living room" and 
we thought it would be a cool idea to have a license plate from every 
state in the US and then from whereever else we could find, like canada,
Mexixo, even some European ones.

  If anyone has any ideas or knows someone that could help us out
please let me know....  The more recent, the better, but anything
would be nice.

  Either that or if you have an old plate hanging around... (hint hint!)

Kev
wanderer@camelot.bradley.edu

Kevin C Murphy
1312 West Main Street #421
Peoria IL 61606

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102898
Subject: Re: MGBs and the real world
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)

In article <1993Apr8.095119.5367@hasler.ascom.ch> kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch writes:
>
>Oh yeah, I had a 1975 1275GT Mini, and even before I did anything
>to it, it could leave an MGB standing anywhere except, perhaps, on a long straight
>motorway run at 90+. 
>
>People who bought MGB`s bought them because they were an open topped sportscar
>and embodied what people thought they should for an old fashioned traditional
>brit. sportscar - not because they were great at anything.

Pretty much like the people who buy the Mazda MX-5 (Miata) today.  Small 
fun and you can fool yourself (and a lot of other people) that you have the 
performance of many far superior (and much more expensive) performnace cars.


-- 
Derek Tearne.   --   derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz   --    Fujitsu New Zealand   -- 
Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental
consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor.  
"If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102899
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Dumbest Driver Action

In <C5Dq2n.5uB@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Wayne Blunier) writes:

>jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:

>>I wish I had the figures with me to back me up, but I recall
>>statistics showing that women tended to have more accidents than men
>>but the damage was generally quite minor.  Men had fewer but far more
>>expensive accidents.  The rate of total vehicle destruction was
>>*significantly* higher for men than women, particularly in the younger
>>male age groups.

>>IMHO social considerations are probably the strongest influence here,
>>possibly more so than any difference between the sexes.  Social
>>influences often affect the type of car that's bought and the
>>situations the car is used in, and the type of car and driving
>>situations have a major effect on accident risk.  Thus if society
>>expects you to buy a Mustang and race it on the street you're more
>>likely to do it, and our society expects that of males more than
>>females.

>I agree with some of your social influences, such as driving conditions,
>but lets get real here.  Guys don't drag race becuase there expected too,
>we do it becuase its fun!  (and we find out whose car is faster).  
>Guys drive different than women becuase there men.  When a driver is  
>driving 'unusually', I can usually figure out if it is a male or female
>driver without looking at the driver.
>Social influences may give a person more reason to buy a vehicle that
>has a certain amount of character which he or she would like associated
>with.  Do you change your driving habits when no one is around?

Sheesh! I don't know what kind of women they have where you guys live,
but there are some ladies here who will blow your doors off. Or at least
they will try to, but we just can't let the youngsters get too uppity
with us old folks :-).
>>My $.02.
>Mark B.

>>jim frost
>>jimf@centerline.com
 Bob


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102900
From: dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf)
Subject: Re: LH Workmanship

In article <1993Apr15.203750.25764@walter.bellcore.com> jchen@ctt.bellcore.com writes:
>I just visited the NY Auto Show, and saw two LH cars on the floor: Eagle 
>Vision and Dodge Intrepid. 
>at a competitive price.  ...
>
>Unfortunately, the workmanship is quite disappointing. On BOTH cars,
>the rubber seals around the window and door fell off. It turns out
>the seals are just big grooved rubber band. It goes on just by pressing


"Through a single data point, you can draw any line you want."
-- Dr. S. Bart Childs, Professor, Texas A&M Dept. of Computer Science


Both my pastor's late model Corolla and my father's 1987 Stanza
have demonstrated the "falling door seals" problem.

             Daryl Biberdorf  N5GJM    d-biberdorf@tamu.edu
               + Sola Gratia + Sola Fide + Sola Scriptura

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102901
Subject: 1993 Honda Civic
From: <LIBEMC@BYUVM.BITNET>

I'd like to converse with anyone who has purchased a 1993 Honda
Civic about their experience.  I'm new to the car buying game
and would like to know what price I can expect to pay for a sedan
after bargaining.

Thanks in advance,

-- Ellen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102902
From: wl@cypress.com (Wilbur Luo/COMM)
Subject: Heard of these South Bay shops?

I need to bring on my VW Corrado for body work (I got hit). I was
wondering if anyone has heard of any of these South Bay body shops:

Akins Collision Center of Santa Clara - on Reed St
Auto West Collision - in San Jose
Los Gatos Acura
Royal Auto Body - in Sunnyvale

Thanks!

-W



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102903
From: alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.rist, another dealer service scam...

In article <1qk5m9$pbe@news.ysu.edu> ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker) writes:
>>
>>I was worried about someone stealing my oil once also. I finally 
>>decided to just have my drain plug welded shut. It works great !
>>I figure that when I add three or four quarts when the oil light
>>comes on every month or so that it's just as good or better than
>>the old wives tale of changing the oil AND filter every 3000 miles.
>>Works for me, I must say. 
>>
>
>I did the same thing to my drain plug for the same reasons.  I was wondering
>how you filled your crankcase though as I welded my hood shut also out of fear
>that somebody might steal my air-filter.

Oh come on, Silly, all you have to do is cut a hole in your hood and 
put a tube there so you can get to the oil fill hole.  What do you
think all those big air intake things are for on those hot-rod cars?
They're just for looks only...little does anyone know, they provide
access to the oil-fill hole.

Well, over where we live, we have problems with vandals stealing 
people's wheels.  Those locking nuts didn't stop them.  So to be
safe and sure, I welded the lug nuts to my wheels together.  It
works, serious!  I haven't had my wheels stolen yet!
.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102904
From: gregl@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU (Greg Lewis)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1qh336INNfl5@CS.UTK.EDU> larose@austin.cs.utk.edu (Brian LaRose) writes:
>This just a warning to EVERYBODY on the net.  Watch out for
>folks standing NEXT to the road or on overpasses.   They can
>cause SERIOUS HARM to you and your car.  
>
>(just a cliff-notes version of my story follows)
>
>10pm last night, I was travelling on the interstate here in
>knoxville,  I was taking an offramp exit to another interstate
>and my wife suddenly screamed and something LARGE hit the side
>of my truck.  We slowed down, but after looking back to see the
>vandals standing there, we drove on to the police station.
>
>She did get a good look at the guy and saw him "cock his arm" with
>something the size of a cinderblock, BUT I never saw him. We are 
>VERY lucky the truck sits up high on the road; if it would have hit
>her window, it would have killed her. 
>
>The police are looking for the guy, but in all likelyhood he is gone. 
Stuff deleted...

I am sorry to report that in Southern California it was a sick sport
for a while to drop concrete blocks from the overpasses onto the
freeway.  Several persons were killed when said blocks came through
their windshields.  Many overpass bridges are now fenced, and they
have made it illegal to loiter on such bridges (as if that would stop
such people).  Yet many bridges are NOT fenced.  I always look up at a
bridge while I still have time to take evasive action even though this
*sport* has not reached us here in Fresno.
___________________________________________________________________
Greg_Lewis@csufresno.edu
Photojournalism sequence, Department of Journalism
CSU Fresno, Fresno, CA 93740

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102905
From: klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <C5HHGM.1rM@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
| In article <1993Apr13.215605.26252@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
| >In article <1q4466INNb85@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
| >>
| >>It's a big aftermarket business.  Almost no cars come from the factory with
| >>vynal any more, and any fake "convertible" job _definitely_ came from some
| >>aftermarket place.  What amazes me is how much people are willing to pay for
| >>bad taste
| >
| >How about those really ugly fake wheel compartments stuck onto the
| >trunk or side (or both sides!) of some tacky luxury cars?
| 
| Some of 'em aren't fake (if you're talking about the Continental kit,
| named after the Lincoln Continental, the first car to sport one). I
| personally would _love_ to have a '56 T-Bird with a Continental kit
| (and the supercharged V-8 :-); that is one of the most beautiful
| cars ever built, IMHO.
| 
| 				James
| 

The Continental may have been the first "modern era" auto to mount the
spare on the rear of the car but it was hardly the first car to sport one.
Various mounting techniques for rear mounting the spare were quite common
in early automobiles, both US and Foreign.
--
Ken Franklin 	They say there's a heaven for people who wait
AMA     	And some say it's better but I say it ain't
GWRRA           I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
DoD #0126       The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102906
From: steve.dunham@uuserv.cc.utah.edu (STEVE LEE DUNHAM)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...


>While not exactly a service incident, I had a similar experience recently  
>when I bought a new truck.
>
>I had picked out the vehicle I wanted and after a little haggling we  
>agreed on a price. I wrote them a check for the down payment plus tax
>and license and told them I'd be back that evening to pick up the truck.  
>When I returned, I had to wait about an hour before the finance guy could  
>get to me. When I finally got in there, everything went smoothly until he  
>started adding up the numbers. He then discovered that they had  
>miscalculated the tax & license by about $150. 

This seems to be a popular scam with dealers.  Last month my brother bought 
a new Audi 90 series quatro from a local dealer.  They came back with the 
final price, tax and all, and he added it up for himself.  There happened to 
be an extra $300 tagged on under the tax part. He pointed out their error 
and asked them to re-think their addition.  They came back with the right 
price the next time.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102907
From: cs173sbw@sdcc5.ucsd.edu (cs173sbw)
Subject: RE: How is Cizeta V16T doing?



In article <crh.734864478@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de> crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Christian Huebner) writes:
>I can remember reading a track competition in some car-magazine, which
>featured the Testarossa, the Diablo and the V16T. The result was about
>the same I would have expected: The Cizeta was not only the slowest of
>the three,  but also dropped out halfway during it's test laps because 
>of smoking brakes. For a sportscar it showed ridiculous performance.
>
Hm... I find this hard to believe.  V16T weights about the same as
the Red Head, but it has hell lot more horse power.  Perhaps it's
due to pre-production glitches?  Well, to me, it still got the most
imposing styling among all the sports cars I have seen.

>Bye...
>
>Chris  crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de
>
>Ferrari F40 - Best sportscar ever built!
Personally, I don't like cars that rely on turbo power.  I guess everyone
has their favorite car.  


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102908
From: rkim@eecg.toronto.edu (Ryan Kim)
Subject: New break pads & exhausts after 96K km (60K mi) on '90 Maxima?


Hi, maybe someone can help me here...
I am looking to buy this 1990 Nissan Maxima GXE for CDN$14000 right now.
The car has 96000 km (or about 60000 miles) on it.
A typical mileage for 1990 cars seem to be about 70000 km (or about 43K mi).
The seller just informed me that when he brought the car in for certification
he was told that the front break pads and the exhausts had to be replaced
to meet the legal standards.  (He said he will replace the components before
selling the car to me.)

Being copmletely ignorant to the technical stuff on cars, I don't know
what this could mean...
Is 96K km about the time typical for replacing the above mentioned items?
Or is this an indication that the car was abused?
Would other things break down or have to be replaced soon?
The seller told me that he used the car on the highway a lot, but,
I don't know how to verify this...  I've seen the paint chipped away
in tiny dots in the front edge of the hood, though.

Although the Maxima is an excellent car and the car is very clean and
well kept, it's currently out of warranty
(a similarly priced '90 Accord with 70K km will have 2 years or 30K km
worth of warranty left) and I don't want to worry about paying for
any repair bills...
But, I also need a car for 5 people...  

When will the new Maxima come out, by the way?

I would very much appreciate your input in this.
Please reply by e-mail (preferred) or post in this newsgroup.
Thanks!

Ryan



========
Ryan Kim
University of Toronto, EECG, Computer Graphics    rkim@eecg.toronto.edu
"Do not weave between traffic cones at road works."
                                    - from the new British Highway Code
                                           (Toronto Star April 3, 1993)


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102909
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Instead of a Saturn SC2, What???

srihari@cirrus.com (Srihari Shoroff) writes:

>In <Ifn=sPO00iV18_A8NZ@andrew.cmu.edu> jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason M. Roth) writes:

>>>R&T had an article on cars of the SC1 ilk and they liked the Civic Ex,
>>>the Escort GT and the MX-3 best of all, and the SC1 was way down the
>>>list except for braking.

>>I just looked at that article; first of all, this summary is inaccurate;
>>of 10 cars, the SC1 was 5th, right behind these mentioned and the Suzuki
>>Swift (!). As has been pointed out, it was a semi-silly comparison; the
>>Saturn was at least $500 cheaper than the MX-3 and Escort (admittedly
>>negligible, but an issue), and $1500 (!)less than the Honda. The stated
>>goal was a base under $12k; the Honda was $500 over, while the SC2 at
>>the same price was excluded. In other words, they let the best Honda
>>play, but not the best Saturn.  Note that the Saturn did beat the $13k

>I dont know about the car comparison but as far as the price goes rest
>assured that the street prices for the MX-3 and Escort and (maybe) even
>the Honda will be lesser than that of the Saturn you're talking about.
>All price comparisons I've seen are based on MSRP and of course the
>saturn dealer will sell the car for sticker price whereas the others
>will do it way below sticker.

>Srihari
	
	I'd hate to rehash an old thread, but...  Would someone kindly quote
a prices that a dealer quotes for a Civic EX, and Escort GT.  Also, I'm a
assuming that the MX-3 was the V-6, so go ahead and look that up, too.  If 
someone has one of those yearly buyers' guides that give a low quote price,
please quote them, too.  Then find the the SC1 base price.

Thanks.

-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102910
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: Re: LH Workmanship

In article <1ql178INN51q@tamsun.tamu.edu> dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.203750.25764@walter.bellcore.com> jchen@ctt.bellcore.com writes:
>>I just visited the NY Auto Show, and saw two LH cars on the floor: Eagle 
>>Vision and Dodge Intrepid. 
>>at a competitive price.  ...
>>
>>Unfortunately, the workmanship is quite disappointing. On BOTH cars,
>>the rubber seals around the window and door fell off. It turns out
>>the seals are just big grooved rubber band. It goes on just by pressing
>
>
>"Through a single data point, you can draw any line you want."
>-- Dr. S. Bart Childs, Professor, Texas A&M Dept. of Computer Science
>
Wrong. I got two points, which were the 100% sample space on the show
floor. By the previous quote, I guess I may drow a determinstic line?
>
>Both my pastor's late model Corolla and my father's 1987 Stanza
>have demonstrated the "falling door seals" problem.
>
As unfair as it may seem, the difference between Chrysler and Toyota is
that Chrysler needs to prove that it can build quality cars. Toyota can
afford make a few small mistakes without hurting the image.

After all, door seal failing on a 6-year old Stanza is not comparable to 
the same problem on a brand new Intreprid.

Jason Chen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102911
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Open letter to NISSAN (Really Station Wagon)

In article <Apr16.000710.27408@engr.washington.edu> eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>
>this week's autoweek talks about how wagons are getting back in vogue.
>i wouldn't mind an audi s4 wagon (great stealth value) but you'll
>never catch me dead in a minivan!

even a minivan based on viper running gear?

-teddy
p.s. i think the audi S4 gets a 4.2 liter V-8 next year.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102912
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Do trains/busses have radar?

In article <1993Apr15.111910.1@bronco.fnal.gov> colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick 'Open VMS 4ever' Colombo) writes:
>
>I don't know about trains, but I've saw a sign on the back of a
>Greyhound bus that warns you that your radar detector may be set off.
>It doesn't explain why, but it does set off my radar detector.

Because Greyhound has apparently gotten around to installing their
RADAR collision-prevention system. They use RADAR to monitor how close
other vehicles are and how fast their relative speeds are, and signals
a warning to the driver if they're coming up on something too fast
or are getting too close.

This is all I remember from the news reports a few months back; at
the time, they were only talking about the possibility of installing
the system. (They didn't mention how it worked in bumper-to-bumper
traffic, or how it discriminated between a Camaro approaching at
120mph and ye olde bridge support in the median being approached 
at 60mph on a curve.)

I do recall something about progressive stages of warnings, from
flashing lights to audible warnings--ie, it goes from a red "Too
close" light to hysterically screaming "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!"  :-)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102913
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Subject: Re: MGBs and the real world

derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes:

>>People who bought MGB`s bought them because they were an open topped sportscar
>>and embodied what people thought they should for an old fashioned traditional
>>brit. sportscar - not because they were great at anything.

>Pretty much like the people who buy the Mazda MX-5 (Miata) today.  Small 
>fun and you can fool yourself (and a lot of other people) that you have the 
>performance of many far superior (and much more expensive) performnace cars.

I have been for a fairly hard run in an MX5, what they lack in power they
surely make up for in handling.  Great for back streets with heaps of corners.
They are a fairly light car with a low center of gravity and a quite free
revving DOHC engine, a fun car.  Have you driven a TURBO converted
MX5?  Now they are starting to perform!  I've often thought a Mazda rotary
would go well in the XM5 too....anyone done it?

Regards Scott.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102914
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr15.173951.20173@icf.hrb.com> jek@icf.hrb.com (Joe Karolchik) writes:
>(I deleted your name because I don't want to sound accusative in my remark)
>> 
>> On another occasion, on my way from Texas to Florida, I had stopped in 
>> a small motel
>> for the night in a small town somewhere in Florida. About 5 youths were 
>> disturbing my
>> car, setting off the alarm and challenging me to come out. When I and 
>> another tenant
>> walked out with a 357 Magnum and a 45 automatic respectively, they vanished. 
>> Needless to say, I immediately packed-up and left.
>> 
>> Watch out for car-jacking and staged accidents. They can be deadly!
>> 
>I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if 
>you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your
>alarm?  I can think of worse things in the world.  Glad you got out of there
>before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.

If I hear someone screwing with my car (ie, setting off the alarm) and
taunting me to come out, you can be damn sure that my Colt Delta Elite
will also be coming with me. It's not the screwing with the car that'd
get them shot, it's the potential physical danger. If they're
taunting like that, it's very possible that they also intend to rob
me and/or do other physically harmful things.

If they're just screwing around, no harm done. If they're bent on
mayhem, they will receive the cure for their lead deficiency; a
180gr. injection @1200 fps...there's no telling what today's violent
criminals will do. Death may be the most pleasant outcome...

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102915
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: New break pads & exhausts after 96K km (60K mi) on '90 Maxima?

In article <1993Apr16.000601.14223@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> rkim@eecg.toronto.edu (Ryan Kim) writes:
>
>Hi, maybe someone can help me here...
>I am looking to buy this 1990 Nissan Maxima GXE for CDN$14000 right now.

So its an automatic? Don't know if US spec=CDN spec. for Maximas.

>The car has 96000 km (or about 60000 miles) on it.
>A typical mileage for 1990 cars seem to be about 70000 km (or about 43K mi).
>The seller just informed me that when he brought the car in for certification
>he was told that the front break pads and the exhausts had to be replaced
>to meet the legal standards.  (He said he will replace the components before
>selling the car to me.)
>
>Being copmletely ignorant to the technical stuff on cars, I don't know
>what this could mean...
>Is 96K km about the time typical for replacing the above mentioned items?
>Or is this an indication that the car was abused?

If it is the first set of brake pads on front, then this is fine. My car
eats a set every 15k miles or so. The fact that he is replacing the
muffler too is also ok.

>Would other things break down or have to be replaced soon?

The mileage is fairly low - but typical fwd stuff is CV joints. Check
the maintenance records with the manufacturers requirements for valve
adjustments, timing belt changes and so on.

The 60k mile service is often expensive, so make sure he has done everything.


>The seller told me that he used the car on the highway a lot, but,
>I don't know how to verify this...  I've seen the paint chipped away
>in tiny dots in the front edge of the hood, though.
>
Well, this is one of the commonly cited methods for identifying a
car with highway miles. 
Might check the gas pedal wear too. Ask him how many sets of tires he
has been through. A highway car might have squeezed by on 2 sets,
a hard driven car 6-10 sets.


>Although the Maxima is an excellent car and the car is very clean and
>well kept, it's currently out of warranty
>(a similarly priced '90 Accord with 70K km will have 2 years or 30K km
>worth of warranty left) and I don't want to worry about paying for
>any repair bills...

Well, the Maxima should be pretty reliable - but if its out of warranty
you should get it checked out by someone knowledgeable first. Stuff
for Japanese cars can be expensive.

>But, I also need a car for 5 people...  
>
>When will the new Maxima come out, by the way?

1995 model year, I believe. 
>
>I would very much appreciate your input in this.
>Please reply by e-mail (preferred) or post in this newsgroup.

Craig
>Thanks!
>
>Ryan
>
>
>
>========
>Ryan Kim
>University of Toronto, EECG, Computer Graphics    rkim@eecg.toronto.edu
>"Do not weave between traffic cones at road works."
>                                    - from the new British Highway Code
>                                           (Toronto Star April 3, 1993)
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102916
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <1993Apr15.223029.23340@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>In article <C5JnK3.JKt@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>>	Wasn't the original intent of the reverse lights for the driver, so he
>>could see where he was backing up???  Although reverse lights on the sides
>
>No. reverse lights are to warn others that you are backing up. They
>aren't bright enough to (typically) see by without the brake and tail
>lights. 

I don't know where you live, but I couldn't get out of my driveway
at night without reverse lights. As someone said, out in the country
you notice neat little things like stars and the difference between
day and night. At night around my house (which is amongst a forest of
rather tall oaks) it is DARK, except for nights with full moons.
Reverse lights illuminate my path very well when backing up; I greatly
prefer cars with them to cars without operational reverse lights.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102917
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Subject: Re: How is Cizeta V16T doing?

> cs173sbw@sdcc5.ucsd.edu (cs173sbw) writes:
> 
>>Does anyone know what happpened to the venerable V16T!?  Has Claudio
>>done any enhancement to it?  Are there any pictures of this beast I
>>can ftp down somewhere?
>>THanks
>>p.s.  Better, seen any RC model of this beauty? :)

--AutoWeek had an article about the car within the past six weeks.
  It was the issue with the Diablo VT AWD on the cover.  Naturally, I
  don't remember the date of the issue offhand, but I can check it if
  anyone is interested.  

--Aamir Qazi

-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102918
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Subject: Re: BMW 3 series for 94?

From article <eabu288-140493210752@dialin33635.slip.nts.uci.edu>, by eabu288@orion.oac.uci.edu (Alvin):
>
> Is there going to be a BMW 328 in 1994?

--Could be.  Isn't the 2.5 liter six supposed to be enlarged to 2.8 liters
  in the not-too-distant future?

--Aamir Qazi

-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102919
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Subject: Re: Instead of a Saturn SC2, What???

From article <1qkkl5INNbvo@hp-col.col.hp.com>, by theckel@col.hp.com (Tim Heckel):
> For those that are interested I got my fully optioned (Air, ABS,
> sunroof) '92 SE-R in September 1991 for $13,555 in Sacramento, CA. It
> was one of the 1st '92s sold, few of the dealers had any, no local
> dealer had an ABS equipped SE-R.  I went straight to the fleet manager
> at the dealership I liked, told him what I wanted, made him aware that I
> knew what his price should be.  He called me back with exactly what I
> wanted from a dealer 125mi away, I took delivery the next day. 

--When I was selling Nissans last summer, I sold a '92 SE-R in early August
  when its supply was getting quite scarce.  The car was black with ABS, 
  Value Option Pkg, and power moonroof.  I sold it for $12,900 plus tax.
  Naturally, my manager didn't really care to sell one of the most desirable
  SE-R's for virtually no profit (to the best of my knowledge).....

--Aamir Qazi

-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102920
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

>
>No. reverse lights are to warn others that you are backing up. They
>aren't bright enough to (typically) see by without the brake and tail
>lights. 
>
>
>Craig

Perhaps instead of this silly argument about what backup lights
are for, couldn't we agree that they serve the dual purpose of
letting people behind your car know that you have it in reverse
and that they can also light up the area behind your car while
you're backing up so you can see?

Backup lamps on current models are much brighter than they used
to be on older cars. Those on my Taurus Wagon are quite bright
enough to illuminate a good area behind the car, and they're 
MUCH brighter than those on my earlier cars from the 60s and 70s. 

Insofar as Vettes having side backup lights, look at a '92 or '93
model (or perhaps a year or two earlier too) and you'll see
red side marker lamps and white side marker lamps both near the
car's hindquarters.  Those aren't just white reflectors. 

Harv

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102921
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: station wagons (was  Open letter to NISSAN

In article <1993Apr16.052013.23517@leland.Stanford.EDU> tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>>but you'll
>>never catch me dead in a minivan!

>even a minivan based on viper running gear?

hmmmm.. not sure, since no such beast exists.. i can tell you another
though..  you won't catch me dead in a GMC Syclone or Typhoon either,
1000 bhp or not.. not even the fact that Clint Eastwood has one.  just
my taste,  no rational reasons for it.

>-teddy
>p.s. i think the audi S4 gets a 4.2 liter V-8 next year.

CAR just tested the S4 wagon with 5 banger and 6 speed manual.  Rave
review except for Servotronic..  Audi is trying to recoup the
development costs for the V8, and since the V8 is not selling well,
they are sticking it into the 100 series cars.. Neat marketing trick,
eh?  yeah, a 100 V8-32v wouldn't be a bad idea as competition for the
upcoming bimmer 530/540i would it?  maybe they can use a 3.6 liter
version to avoid conflicts with the v8 model.. then strip off all the
luxo-garbage.  let the S4 remain with the flared arches and fat tires
to go fight with the M5.... maybe turn up the boost a wee bit to bump
bhp up to say 450 or so.. :-) while keeping the 100 V8 with mercedes
500E style subtlety.

blah blah blah....


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102922
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: MGBs and the real world

In article <1qlg02$iu6@uniwa.uwa.oz.au> scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher) writes:
>Have you driven a TURBO converted
>MX5?  Now they are starting to perform!  I've often thought a Mazda rotary
>would go well in the XM5 too....anyone done it?

no, but somebody's dropped a ford 302 V-8 into the miata, somewhat
reminiscent of the shelby cobra.  the car's obviously not as nimble
as before, but it's supposed to have a near 50/50 weight distribution
and handle very well.  i'd sure love to drive one.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102923
From: dye@lachman.com (Ken R. Dye )
Subject: Re: Feedback requested on lowering '66 Mustang

In article <X3XZ2B2w165w@vllyoak.resun.com> jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry) writes:
>I have found a kit advertised for lowering the front end of an early 
>mustang.  Installation envolves moving the upper A-arm and installation 
>of a wedge shaped spacer between the A-arm and ball joint.  Apparently, 
>Shelby Mustangs did a similair modification, but left out the spacer.
>
>I would be interested in feedback, pro or con, on such a modification.

	I'm no mustang head, but don't the early ones have a simple
strut suspension (that is, with no upper A-arm)?  Just a strut
going down to a lower control arm (single bushing: not an A-arm), with a
tension/compression rod locating it in the forward/backward direction?

	Anyway, simple strut suspensions like this can be lowered just by using
shorter springs, cutting the springs, lowering the spring perch or shortening
the strut below the perch.  In each of these cases, the suspension geometry
will suffer because the lower control arms will not be at the
intended angle.  A spacer placed between control arm and the bottom
of the strut (roughly the height of the reduction) will restore
the suspension geometry.  IMHO, the kit that includes the spacer
is the only way to go...

--Ken
-- 
Ken R. Dye				an optimist is a guy		 |
Lachman Technology, Inc., Chicago	that has never had		 | 
(708) 505-9555 x341			much experience			 |
dye@lachman.com							archy	 |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102924
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


In article <C5H7qz.KyA@boi.hp.com>, wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii) writes:
|> Brian LaRose (larose@austin.cs.utk.edu) wrote:
|> 
|> : I never saw the guy.  The police said they thought the motive was to
|> : hit the car, have us STOP to check out the damage, and then JUMP US,
|> : and take the truck.  
|> : 
|> : PLEASE BE AWARE OF FOLKS.  AND FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, PLEASE DON'T STOP!!!!
|> 
|> Sad.  This sort of thing is on the rise across the country.  South Florida
|> is getting a lot of national TV coverage on the subject where vacationers
|> are being attacked (and some killed) in schemes similar to this.

Make that worldwide coverage. I know numerous people who were planning
holidays to the Florida, and have now chosen another (non-US)
destination. You expect this sort of thing, perhaps, in third world
countries - but not the US!

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102925
From: david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <5214@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <chrissC587qB.D1B@netcom.com> chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester) writes:
>
>>WAGON, which I have heard is somehow slightly faster than the Coupe.
>
>	Wagon has an automatic, it's slower.
>
Could be due to the rear-end ratio also.  

Usually automatics have different rear-ends than manuals, from
my limited experience anyways.

David
>
>


-- 
David W. Hwang, M.D.           //    University of Michigan Medical School
1050 Wall Street, Suite 10C   //           Telephone: 313/663-5557
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48105    //    Internet: david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102926
From: thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang)
Subject: The Kuebelwagen??!!          

	Sorry for the mis-spelling, but I forgot how to spell it after 
my series of exams and NO-on hand reference here.

	Is it still possible to get those cute WWII VW Jeep-wanna-be's?
A replica would be great I think.  

							-TKH '93

------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can convert a C=128 to a C128T, I can do anything... NOT!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102927
From: etjet@levels.unisa.edu.au
Subject: Aussie needs info on car shows



Hi from Australia,

I am a car enthusiast in Australia.
 
I am particularly interested in American Muscle cars of the 
1960s and 1970s. ALL MAKES: AMC, Ford, Chrysler/Mopar, GM.

I will be in the USA for 6 weeks from May 2nd to -June 14 1993.

Chicago: Sun May 2 -Thursday May 6
Denver:  Friday May 7 - Sunday May 9
Austin, Texas: Monday May 10- Friday May 21
Oklahoma City: Friday May 21 - Monday May 24
Anaheim, California: Tuesday May 25-Thursday May 27
Las Vegas, Nevada:  Friday May 28- Sunday May 30
Grand Canion, Monday May 31 - Tuesday June 1
Las Angeles, San Diego and vicinity: Wednesday June 3-Sunday June 6 June
South Lake Tahoe, Cal: Sunday June 6 - Wednesday June 9
Reno: Thursday June 10
San Fransisco: Thursday June 10 - Sunday June 13


I was wondering if anyone could send me any information of 
car shows, swap meets, drag meets, model car shows etc. during this period.
Can anybody tell me when the Pomona Swap meet is on this year?

Also, any places to visit (eg. car museums, private collections, 
your collection? etc. Any bit of information is appreciated!

I am also interested in finding some model cars (scale Models). 
I am intersted in 1968-1974 AMC cars. Of particular interest is:
1968-1970 AMX
1968-1974 Javelin
1969 SCRAMBLER
1970 Rebel Machine
and others

If you have any kits, plastics, diecast etc and are interested in selling them,
tell me, I will be interested.

I can also send/bring you models of Australian High performance cars if 
you are interested.


Please reply by email to: johnt@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au


Thanks,

John Tsimbinos 



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102928
From: etjet@levels.unisa.edu.au
Subject: Aussie needs info on USA car shows/swap meets



Hi from Australia,

I am a car enthusiast in Australia.
 
I am particularly interested in American Muscle cars of the 
1960s and 1970s. ALL MAKES: AMC, Ford, Chrysler/Mopar, GM.

I will be in the USA for 6 weeks from May 2nd to -June 14 1993.

Chicago: Sun May 2 -Thursday May 6
Denver:  Friday May 7 - Sunday May 9
Austin, Texas: Monday May 10- Friday May 21
Oklahoma City: Friday May 21 - Monday May 24
Anaheim, California: Tuesday May 25-Thursday May 27
Las Vegas, Nevada:  Friday May 28- Sunday May 30
Grand Canion, Monday May 31 - Tuesday June 1
Las Angeles, San Diego and vicinity: Wednesday June 3-Sunday June 6 June
South Lake Tahoe, Cal: Sunday June 6 - Wednesday June 9
Reno: Thursday June 10
San Fransisco: Thursday June 10 - Sunday June 13


I was wondering if anyone could send me any information of 
car shows, swap meets, drag meets, model car shows etc. during this period.
Can anybody tell me when the Pomona Swap meet is on this year?

Also, any places to visit (eg. car museums, private collections, 
your collection? etc. Any bit of information is appreciated!

I am also interested in finding some model cars (scale Models). 
I am intersted in 1968-1974 AMC cars. Of particular interest is:
1968-1970 AMX
1968-1974 Javelin
1969 SCRAMBLER
1970 Rebel Machine
and others

If you have any kits, plastics, diecast etc and are interested in selling them,
tell me, I will be interested.

I can also send/bring you models of Australian High performance cars if 
you are interested.


Please reply by email to: johnt@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au


Thanks,

John Tsimbinos 



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102929
From: Eric_Thomas@mindlink.bc.ca (Eric Thomas)
Subject: 1962 thunderbird

I just bought a 1962 T-BIRD and would like any info on a club
in and around the the B.C. coast.
                                 Eric Thomas


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102930
From: bjones@TrentU.CA (NAME)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr16.091938.6821@hasler.ascom.ch>, kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh) writes:
>
>In article <C5H7qz.KyA@boi.hp.com>, wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii) writes:
>|> Brian LaRose (larose@austin.cs.utk.edu) wrote:
>|> 
>|> : I never saw the guy.  The police said they thought the motive was to
>|> : hit the car, have us STOP to check out the damage, and then JUMP US,
>|> : and take the truck.  
>|> : 
>|> : PLEASE BE AWARE OF FOLKS.  AND FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, PLEASE DON'T STOP!!!!
>|> 
>|> Sad.  This sort of thing is on the rise across the country.  South Florida
>|> is getting a lot of national TV coverage on the subject where vacationers
>|> are being attacked (and some killed) in schemes similar to this.
>
>Make that worldwide coverage. I know numerous people who were planning
>holidays to the Florida, and have now chosen another (non-US)
>destination. You expect this sort of thing, perhaps, in third world
>countries - but not the US!

>In response to this and other articles that have been written on this 
subject, I would like to say that it is not just a US problem.  In southern 
Ontario last summer there were several instances along the 401 where people 
(mainly truckers) were shot at from overpasses.  There are many sick people 
out there and it makes you wonder what the worlds coming to.
>kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102931
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Subject: Re: JEEP WRANGLER - OPINI

In article 4DB@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu, mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri) writes:
>How do I square this with a respectable resale value?  Easy- if it's expensive
> to buy new, it's gonna be expensive to buy used.
>===============================
>A patently false statement. Try this logic on an Alfa 164. In fact, 
>marketplace has a wonderufl mechanism to "adjust" the value of the cars that 
>are overpriced by the manufacturer. If it is expensive to buy new it is NOT 
>necessarily expnesive to buy used. In fact, it could be real cheap to buy 
>used, depending what that car is of course. Note that I do not question your 
>statements on the reliability of Wrangler. I have never owned one, driven one 
>or been in one (I do love to have one though!).


 What I don't understand is why 
>this apparent neglect of quality for so many years has not filtered down into 
>the used market.Is Jeep so intoxicating, so irresistable and so seductive as 
>to make its purchase a fatal attraction?.
>
>Bijan



Yep.  They are popular vehicles.  You don't see a lot of previous model year
ones sitting on dealer's lots for any lenghth of time after the new ones are
out.  The things sell, they are popular.

Because they are popular, and high-priced new, they are high price used, very
simple.

I knew they were overpriced when I bought it... I knew they had a terrible 
reliability record when I bought it.  But I didn't expect anything like I
got, especially with a dealer network unable to repair it.  Personal experience
has quickly cured me of my infatuation with the machine.

Dave

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102932
From: dalibor@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Stefan Dalibor)
Subject: Re: Too fast

jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:

>There are a few things to keep in mind about Europe, since you brought
>it up.  My Autobahn knowledge is admittedly second-hand, but I believe
>the following to be true:

My knowledge about driving in the U.S. is also second-hand, but I think I can
correct your statements about our Autobahn:

>1. Drivers are much better disciplined in Europe than they are here.

Oh yeah, that would be paradise... in fact, you can forget it. From all I've
heard from my U.S. relatives, drivers esp. here in Germany are much more agg-
ressive, but not disciplined. One of my relatives, a L.A. resident, hired a car
at the Nuernberg airport and went about 18 miles to our home. He said then that
he grew about 1 year older during this ride and swore he'd never drive a car in
Germany again (this was in 1982 and he kept his promise - the situation now is
even worse as effect of the increased volume of traffic).
What you mean by `better disciplined' should perhaps be considered `cautious due
to fear': 
When driving around here, you always *have* to take into consideration that the
majority of the other drivers absolutely relies on you: They expect that nobody
fails or sleeps; many of them exploit this by driving as fast as their car can
go (of course only where that is allowed, you might think - dream on :).
So any mistake you make is a very high risk to your health - and if you're ex-
posed to such a situation from your very first day as a driver, you learn to
handle it - or you lose... 
That's the way I and most people I know experience our traffic situation - 
whether you think this is pleasant or efficient is up to you; I think we handle
a very high volume of traffic and that at high speeds with modest (compared to
the volume) and decreasing rates of lethal accidents - OTOH, more and more
people (esp. women) dislike driving (because they feel overtaxed and threatened)
and each accident is one accident too much.

>2. The roads comprising the Autobahn are much better designed than
>   they are here, and usually include animal fences.  This makes them
>   far more predictable than most US highways.

Better designed and maintained, may be - but animal fences are very rare. Auto-
bahnen and many other streets have guard-rails (I hope that's the right word - 
a plank made from thick steel sheet fixed on uprights; it's about 2 feet high);
those guard-rails are designed for keeping vehicles on the road. Smaller animals
can crawl under the plank, bigger ones can easily jump over it. The point is
that esp. larger animals are very rare in Germany; they tend also to be very
timid. Accidents caused by animals are a neglegible danger.

>3. Not all of Europe is the Autobahn.  Most places in Europe have
>   speed limits that aren't out-of-line with what we used to have in
>   the US -- if my friends weren't lying to me they're typically not
>   much higher than 120km/h.

You're right (there are speed linits even on the major part of the Autobahn) -
but the attitude towards driving (see above) seems to be very similar to that
in Germany (I've been in France, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, Spain, Belgium,
the Netherlands) - besides that, you really can't rely on the residents abiding
the local speed limits. I've got quite a lot of practise (~120k miles) and I'm
used to travel at 130 mph (FYI, with a car even smaller than a rabbit), but I
consider driving on the highways round Paris or Milano really a thrill...

>I strongly suspect you won't find a lot of Rabbit owners doing 120mph
>(nearly 200km/h) on the Autobahn, but I could be wrong. ...

Sorry, but you'll find quite a lot rabbit-class-car (or even smaller, mine is a
Peugeot 205) owners going that fast; small cars with much HP are very `hip' over
here - and most people buying such cars aren't afraid to let them run.

>                                                      ...  Some people
>have no respect for their own lives.

I disagree; the size or weight of a car is rather irrelevant. Formula-1 cars
weigh less than 700 kg and the drivers have a chance to survive accidents at
130 mph or higher - OTOH when crashing against a solid object at 130 mph,
it makes no difference whether you sit in a Porsche, a Mercedes, a tank or on
a bicycle: Your're dead.

Bye,
Stefan
---
Stefan Dalibor (dalibor@immd3.uni-erlangen.de)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"...And now for the next case in Kangaroo Court, I accuse you of being the
reincarnation of Adolf Hitler.  I don't think that mere denials will be
sufficient -- you will have to submit to examinations by a parapsychologist
that I personally select..."
Perry Metzger (pmetzger@shearson.com) in Article 2074 in news.admin.policy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102933
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

>I too was puzzled by this obvious untruth. What I think is going on is that
>Nissan claims that the Altima is "the best selling new car namelplate in
>the US" (I think I have this near verbatim). Lee Iaccoca's statistics
>dept. would have been proud of that sentence.


Note that the Corolla/Prism are also new designs... but hey are not new 
"nameplates."  I guess Nissan doesn't even sell as many Altimas as
Toyota does Corollas, or there would be no "nameplate" qualifier.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102934
From: sjp@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Steve Phillips)
Subject: Re: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together!

Give out the address, I'll drive by and take a look myself, then post.


--
Stephen Phillips
Atlanta Response Center
Atlanta, Ga.
Home of the Braves!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102935
From: jackd@sad.hp.com (Jack Dauler)
Subject: Re: Tires for Ford Ranger Pickup

   I have had good luck with my Ranger and Yokohama 371 S+M tires.
   The tires have been wearing well and even the few times i have hauled
   heavy loads they have done well.     

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102936
From: damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio)
Subject: Re: Ford and the automobile

rwong@eis.calstate.edu (Russel Wong) writes:

>Hello, my name is Russell Wong and I am doing a research project on Henry
>Ford and his automobile.  I need information on whether Ford is
>partially responsible for all of the car accidents 

Ya, he cut me off on 128 the other day, he drives like a crazy person.
I'd have to say he's responsible for most accidents, they really should
pull his licence.

-Steve


7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7
               Alan Kulwicki    1992 Winston Cup Champion
                              1954 - 1993
7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102937
From: chuck@eos.ncsu.edu (Chuck Kesler)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT)

In article <1993Apr20.002651.20797@sco.com> nathanp@sco.COM (Nathan) writes:
>
>"Jeremy G. Mereness" <zonker+@CMU.EDU> says:
>>
>>Can anyone offer any opinions of the Ford Probe... ala how they do in
>>the long run, repair records, reliability, mileage, etc?
>>
>>I am fixing to buy a car in the next few months aiming toward something
>>a little bigger than a typical small car and with a little more power. I
>>am considering the MX-6, Probe, Accord, Corolla, and the 240SX. 
...
>I bought a '93 Probe GT with the PEP 263A last July (now at 9500 miles)
>after debating over the Sentra SE-R/NX2000, MX6, MR-2, Stealth, Prelude, 
>and Celica.
...
>The car design is different than earlier years, so it's too early to see its
>reliability so far.  For what it's worth, my comments:
>
>My dislikes:
>Shutting door with windows up from inside rarely makes good wind seal.

Some other owners on the ford-probe@world.std.com mailing list have commented 
about this problem, but I haven't seen it happen on my 3 month old 
'93 Probe GT.  I think this may be something that Ford has corrected since 
the initial batch of cars.  Also, someone said that Ford has issued a 
service bulletin to inform dealers about how to correct this problem, so you 
may be able to get your dealer to fix it.

>Headlights have "stuck" up a few times (weather?)
>air conditioning broke ~4000 miles (pressure cycling switch)
>condensation around rear washer fluid container doesn't drain completely.

Haven't seen any of these problems, nor have I seen these mentioned on the
mailing list, so these might just be having bad luck with these.

>crammed engine; little hope for do-it-yourselfers (typical)

Definitely!

>parts somewhat more expensive than normal Ford parts
>underside plastic doesn't like sharp driveways and speedbumps (typical).
>assembly gripes: tape on radiator, screw fell out of dash, seat seams not 
>stitched properly.  Hopefully just a fluke.

No problems like these either.  I haven't been able to find any obvious 
places where they screwed up.

>Ford only gives 1 key with the car.  C'mon Ford, spend an extra few pennies!

Hmmm!  I got two keys with my car.  Something tells me you got stiffed by
your dealer on this.  (Actually, if you count the "credit card" key that 
came in the owner's binder, I got 3 keys, but since the credit card key
doesn't have any teeth cut in it yet, I guess I won't count it. :-))

>Rear hatch has no padding on corners when up.  I'm waiting for the day when
>I bash my head on the corner.
>horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in center (personal preference)

The latter is probably because of the air bag.  It's pretty much takes up
all the space where you'd expect to find the horn.

Speaking of the horn, I was surprised to find that the Probe comes with one
of those nice 'merican sounding horns instead of the Japanese sounding kind.
The previous Probes had Japanese horns.

>Tires fling dirt/mud onto side of car 

Yeah, not very badly, but enough to be annoying sometimes.

>My Likes:
>engine (design/valves/sounds/smoothness/power/mileage/torque) -- definitely #1
>handling (very good for FWD; understeer only at limits)
>transmission (the 5 speed is a must)
>usable instrumentation (lovely readable analog everywhere)
>Very little torque steer at full power (much better than the '90 SHO I drive)
>stability at 100+mph (high gearing though)
>low cowl (good visibility in front)
>Heated outside mirrors (nice in fog, never tested in freezing weather)
>ABS/Air bag (see above)
>rear seats fold down (I have few rear seat passengers so a trunk not important)
>No shake/rattle noises when going over bumps/potholes (still!)
>Tires: 225/55VR16 Goodyear Eagles (70% left; hoping for 30K :-)

I agree strongly with all of the above, especially about the engine.  The
interior is very, very nice too.  Very pleasing to the eye, and ergonomically
sound.

...
>I drive it to and from work
>each day on relatively smooth roads, and most noticable thing is that the
>Probe's suspension doesn't like potholes.  When you test drive one, find a 
>potholed road somewhere around town and see if the jarring you get is 
>tolerable.

Yes, this car's stiff suspension isn't for everyone.  I personally like it,
but if you find it a little harsh but otherwise like the car, I'd strongly
suggest looking into the MX-6.

>If you have 3+ passengers, by all means bring them along too.  They'll find
>that they have no room in the back and you'll find that the car rides
>differently (if that's "better" is up to you).  

The problem with the back seat is that there's no leg room.  Plenty of 
head room, though.  Shorter people fit back there without any complaints,
so long as the seat they are sitting behind is pulled forward a bit to 
give them a place to put their feet.

>Also, there's a lot of glass
>around you which I wasn't expecting; the temperature inside the car gets pretty
>hot in the summer.  My back seat passengers (now very few) complain about
>the lack of ventilation; you may want to consider that when combined with
>the heat.

The power moonroof can greatly improve the ventilation throughout the car. :-)
I really enjoy the moonroof, by the way, but then I've always been a sucker
for open air driving.  No leakage problems or anything like that...yet!

>I've heard that the exhaust system has trouble, but mine works fine.

I haven't heard about this one.  I know that some of the very early Probes
('89 and maybe '90) had problems with prematurely rusting mufflers (which
Ford will replace at no charge), but I haven't heard about anything like
this concerning the '93 Probes.

I haven't had any real trouble with this car outside of a CV joint boot
that was leaking, but the dealer took care of that promptly, and even
gave me a free rental car for the day and a half that I was without my
car.  I was quite happy with the way they handled...especially considering
that I was expecting the worst from them!

From what I've heard, it sounds like Ford/Mazda had some QC problems with 
the Probe (and probably MX-6) when they first went into production, but 
I think these problems have mostly been corrected at this point.  That's
almost always to be expected with a completely new car like this, though.

Hope this helps,

-chuck-
-- 
   Chuck Kesler                     /|<  Internet:   chuck@eos.ncsu.edu
   Unix Systems Programmer           |   US Mail:    Box 7901, NCSU Campus 
   Engineering Computer Operations   |               Raleigh, NC 27695 USA
   North Carolina State University   |   Phone:      +1 919 515 2458

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102938
From: kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner)
Subject: Sticky Lock on Tailgate



My 1988 Toyota 4Runner has a rolldown rear window with a keylock
switch.  It sticky on me.  Yesterday it was tough to get the
key to work and it also happened to stick on in the up direction
so the stalled motor was powered all night killing the battery.

I'd like to try to lubricate the lock switch. What should I lubricate
the lock with?

email please, 

thanx, Ken.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't drink American corporate swill.  Support you local micro-brewery." -me
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102939
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: Renting from Alamo	

Hello netters!

I'm visiting the US (I'm from Sweden) in August. I will probably rent a Chevy
Beretta from Alamo. I've been quoted $225 for a week/ $54 for additional days. 
This would include free driving distance, but not local taxes (Baltimore). 
They also told me all insurance thats necessary is included, but I doubt that,
 'cause a friend rented a car last year and it turned out he needed a lot more
insurance than what's included in the base price. But on the other hand he didn't
rent it from Alamo.

Does anyone have some info on this?

Is $225 a rip-off? 
Probability that I'll be needing more insurance?
Is the beretta a good rental car?

Thanx

Markus


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102940
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

nancy@hayduke (Nancy Feagans) writes:
>Ashtrays and cigarette lighters.  These should be an *option*.

GM, at least, is heading in that direction.  One of the post-sale
questions they asked me was if I'd like the choice of a cigarette
liter or an accessory plug, and another whether I'd like the choice of
an ashtray or a cup holder.

The '93 Geo Storms have the cigarette lighter vs accessory plug option
(which did not exist in the '92 I bought) -- I'm not sure about the
ash tray vs cup holder.  It's a step in the right direction.

The ashtray does make a convenient change-holder so it's not
completely useless.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102941
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: No-Haggle Deals...Save $$???

You can be sure they wouldn't do it if it wasn't to their advantage.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102942
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT)

In article <1993Apr20.124228.5357@ncsu.edu> chuck@eos.ncsu.edu (Chuck Kesler) writes:
>>Rear hatch has no padding on corners when up.  I'm waiting for the day when
>>I bash my head on the corner.
>>horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in center (personal preference)
>
>The latter is probably because of the air bag.  It's pretty much takes up
>all the space where you'd expect to find the horn.
>

All Toyotas have airbags with a real horn. Come on, how hard can it
be to put a little pressure plate there. I hope Toyota doesn't follow
everyone else and make the horns little buttons that I wouldn't want
to fumble for.

john

-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102943
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article <C5r43y.F0D@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
>I guess I wasn't clear enough here. I said the roads WERE designed for 
>speeds of 80 or so and still be safe. The current 55-65 will add a saftey
>margin.

	They were designed for speeds of upwards of 80 - I forget the
exact spec - but for military vehicles.  That's 80 in a 1958 Dodge 
Powerwagon.  Not 80 in a 1993 Ford Taurus.





Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102944
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Where can I get a New York taxi?

In article <C5r66A.6rB@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> almanb@sr.hp.com (Bob Alman) writes:
>          "hose"  h-o-s-e

	Dork.  d-o-r-k.




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102945
From: grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas)
Subject: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together!

Alright, beat this automobile sighting.

Driving along just a hair north of Atlanta, I noticed an old, run down
former car dealership which appeared to deal with, and repair, older
rare or exotic foreign sports cars. I saw:

Ford GT-40 (!), the famous model from Ford, that seemed to win most of 
its races in the late 60s, including Le-Mans 4 or 6 times.

Two Jensen Interceptors, one a convertable, one a hatchback?

Porsche 911 (boring compared to the rest)

THREE Ferarries, a Mondial, a 308 prepared for racing, and a red 60s model
that I couldn't identify.

And at the bottom, a late 70s MG convertable.

Outside there was a rotting Rover 3500 saloon, which was never regularly
sold in the U.S.

And in the showroom, there was a small italian body, either an Alpha Romeo
or a Lancia. It was about the size of an Austin Mini.
The trunklid was missing, exposing a boot with a voltage regulator 
in the upper left corner of the wall, and a chunk of metal removed from
the floor on the right hand side as if something would leave the trunk
and go to the outside from here.
The taillights looked like they
would be the round type (if they were there). Does anyone know what the
make of this one is?  

Certainly made my day... 
-- 
Graham E. Thomas                  *  blah blah blah blah blah  
Georgia Institute of Technology   *  blah blah blah blah blah     
Internet: grahamt@oit.gatech.edu  *  blah blah blah blah blah  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102946
From: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com (Thatch Harvey)
Subject: Re: Mercury Capri Restrictions

 


       The restriction could have to do with the car being a convertible.

A lot of paronoid laws were passed concerning convertibles in the 80's.
These states may require greater rollover protection than the Capri affords.

               Thatch Harvey


    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Thatch Harvey                                                    %
    % uucp: (no longer valid)            domain: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com %
    % Hewlett-Packard              Lake Stevens Instrument Division    %
    % Lake Stevens, WA                                                 %
    % (206) 335-2083                Merkur XR4Ti, Suzuki GSX1100G,     %
    %                               Prince SR3 D Sports Racer          %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%






Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102947
From: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com (Thatch Harvey)
Subject: Re: Removing Rain-X coat on the front windshield, any tips?



   If you want a summer without rain, you're in the wrong place. You must not
have been here a whole year yet. Keep the Rain-X handy my friend.


             Thatch

    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Thatch Harvey                                                    %
    % uucp: (no longer valid)            domain: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com %
    % Hewlett-Packard              Lake Stevens Instrument Division    %
    % Lake Stevens, WA                                                 %
    % (206) 335-2083                Merkur XR4Ti, Suzuki GSX1100G,     %
    %                               Prince SR3 D Sports Racer          %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%






Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102948
From: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM (John Fox - SunExpress IR)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article 5276@unisql.UUCP, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <C5r43y.F0D@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
>>I guess I wasn't clear enough here. I said the roads WERE designed for 
>>speeds of 80 or so and still be safe. The current 55-65 will add a saftey
>>margin.
>
>	They were designed for speeds of upwards of 80 - I forget the
>exact spec - but for military vehicles.  That's 80 in a 1958 Dodge 
>Powerwagon.  Not 80 in a 1993 Ford Taurus.
>
>
>
>


Ah yes, the 58 Powerwagon. Now there was a vehicle that today's cars can't
touch in terms of high speed road holding ability! :-)


































Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102949
From: grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas)
Subject: Re: BLAST to the past!

amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL) writes:
>be worthwhile?  Or how about something like the old MGB with new technology?
>Just think about it - the old style with upgraded safety features and perhaps a
>natural gas operated engine for less than 10K. I think it would go over well.
>What is your opinion??????
>Al H

Well, the MGB is currently in production for the English market, built
by Rover. It now has a V8, improved suspention, and a slightly
updated body. Too bad it's only available in GB and would set one
of us back about $42,000+.

 
-- 
Graham E. Thomas                  *  blah blah blah blah blah  
Georgia Institute of Technology   *  blah blah blah blah blah     
Internet: grahamt@oit.gatech.edu  *  blah blah blah blah blah  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102950
From: nsx@carson.u.washington.edu (|ns-x|)
Subject: Re: 300ZX or SC300???

>ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) writes:
>>I'm getting a car in the near future.  I've narrow it down to 300ZX and SC300.
>>Which might be a better choice?
>>Thanks for your opnion,
>>Danny


>I've been asking myself this same question for the past year, so, if/when
>you find out, would you please share the magistic answer with me.. 
>The way I see it right now, work twice as hard so you can have both.
>cheers :)
>Issa

	
	my suggestion is: why not work twice as hard (like issa 
	suggested above) then get acura nsx?! :) enjoy. /seb



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102951
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: '93 Grand Am (4 cyl)

In article <HOLCOMB.93Apr19073907@wgermany.ctron.com> holcomb@ctron.com (Edgar W. Ii Holcomb) writes:
>In article <Apr.18.12.24.26.1993.19337@remus.rutgers.edu> wilmott@remus.rutgers.edu (ray wilmott) writes:
>
>   Hi all. A while back I was asking for info about a few different
>   models, the Grand Am being one of them. Response was generally
>   favorable; one thing often repeated was "go for the V6 for some
>   real power". Point well taken, but...does anybody have any input
>   on the 4 cylinders (both the standard OHC, and the "Quad 4")?
>Ray,
>
>The High-Output Quad 4 delivers 175 hp (185 for the WF41 Quad 4), whereas
>the 3.1L V6 offered in the Grand Am delivers 140 hp.  I own a Beretta GTZ

ooppss...the v6 in the grand am is the 3.3. litre, not the 3.1.  the 3.3 is
a downsized version of buicks 3.8 litre v6.  the 3.1 v6 goes in the beretta 
and corsica.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102952
From: ajg1678@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Buick heater controls

I had the exactly same problem with my '70 Lesabre. It was also from Cal.     What I did was go to the local junkyard and pick up a diaphragm from a '68      Lesabre with the same heater set up.  It worked for me, but a little bit slow   to change from vents to defogger.  Better than nothing!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102953
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions

In article <1qugvu$ai8@quad.wfunet.wfu.edu> hagenjd@wfu.edu (Jeff Hagen) writes:
>
>Thanx to all those who responded, particularly those "never driven an XXX
>but here's what it's like:" guys...
>
>OK, we all know that new-age AT's are great in traffic, and do a satisfactory
>job in acceleration when you keep your foot buried in the carpet.
>
>My question regards downshifting.  NOT downshifting to pass (AT's are 
>good at this now), but manually moving the lever to 3, 2, or 1 at a point
>where you would downshift a manual-- e.g. approaching a red light, or a 
>curve, or just tooling around a parking lot in 1st or 2nd w/o shifting.
>This is why I'm still a Manual-Trans Bigot-- the downshifting for
>deceleration seems so natural.  When I try this in an automatic, the
>tranny doesn't seem to understand what I want.
>
>Addendum-- isn't it great, after downshifting while approaching that
>red light, when the light goes green, and you're already on-cam
>(or the turbo's already spooled up!) -- zippppppppppp!
>
>Hagen.  (hagenjd@ac.wfu.edu)
>

i have a grand am with auto and quad4.  around the gear selector there is a 
plastic strip which covers the space so you can't see inside.  anyway...i took
the cover off and cut the end of this long strip to a specific length, the 
strip curls up into a cirlce at one end inside.  anyway, by doing this the 
strip can't feed into the lip that circles it,,,,so...i can push button, pull
down and the gear shifter will only go back to 2 from drive,,,no accidental
hitting first.  i drive around town in 2 to keep the revs up.  shift to drive
above 50 and pull down to 2 when coming up to lights..if i want.  if i am
eating food...i drive in drive.  there are probably aftermarket shift kits
that will accomplish the same thing.  porsche's tip-tronic automatic can be 
driven like an auto...or put into +/- mode.  tip up...upshift...tip down...
downshift.  of course there is an override so you don't redline the engine.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102954
From: chris1@donner.cc.bellcore.com (ross,christina l)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

In article <9595@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim) writes:
> >In article <1993Apr14.140642.19875@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:
> >anybody is going anywhere. So, I block the would-be passers. Not only for my own
> >good , but theirs as well even though they are often too stupid to realize it.
> 
> Ah, we are looking for good people just like you. We are a very concerned
> group of citizens who are absolutely disgusted at the way that the majority
> of drivers simply disobey traffic rules like going above the speed limit,
> passing on our right, and riding our tails, while all the while we respectfully
> abide by the rules of this great country and maintain the mandated speed
> limits with our calibrated, certified cruise controls, while keeping the
> respectful 1.5 car length distance/10 mph speed. How many times have you been
> ticked off by some moron who jumps ahead in the (5.5 * 1.5)8.25 car lengths 
> that you have left between you and the vehicle ahead of you while driving
> 55 mph? Finally you have an option. We are a totally member supported group
> that perform functions for our own good, for the good of this great country  but MOST of all for those unfortunate ones that are too stupid to realize it,
> bless their souls. For a paltry $10, you can join Citizens for Rationally 
> Advanced Piloting(C.R.A.P), a non-profit, members only, society. But, but,but,
> there is a slight hitch, the initiation rite. To be a full fledged member of
> this exclusive club, you must proof that you are able to be in the fast lane of
> the busiest interstate in your area, keep the correct 1.5 car lenth/10 mph speedand I know this can be difficult with those morons around, NOT let anybody pass
> you, not in the next lane, not in the slow lane, not in the breakdown lane,
> not NOWHERE. For a complete list of acceptable interstates and times, send $5.
> And by the way, over 90% of our members are highly regarded attorneys in the
> auto field and they are completely, absolutely positively in the business ONLY
> to serve your best interests. As a testament to their virtues, they will give
> members 90% off the initial consultation fee. Feel free to drop me a line at
> your earliest convenience and remember, only SPEED kills!
> 
> Jit
> 
> 
> 
> 

Of course you are a bunch of arrogant lawyers who know whats best for the 
rest of us. You are doing such a wonderful job with our judicial system,
getting all the criminals off, I bow to your superior intellect. Not to
mention the fees you collect from us poor slobs who get tickets from 
speeding State Police officers, so you can soak is when we go to court.
I just love lawyer jokes! Don't you?

C. 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102955
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: Alarm systems: are they worthwhile?

In article <1993Apr19.164451.3744@news.eng.convex.com> dodson@convex.COM (Dave Dodson) writes:
>Is it worthwhile to get an alarm system on a new car?


Although, others have in the past and will continue to disagree
i think that it is worthwhile to get an alarm.


>What features are important?

I think that it is important to protect your trunk, engine bay, all
doors.  I'd get flashing lights, LED's mounted on the drivers and
passenger door and a relay to disable engine operation. Toss in 
a glass break sensor, and shock sensor. Door lock and unlock,
two remotes and panic feature are also nice to have.

Most important is where you have the installation done!  Some places
may cost a little more, but a poorly installed alarm (no matter how
much it cost) will be a major burden.


>What features are unimportant?

IMO, things like engine starters, voice alarms, window/sunroof open
and close, and most other conveniences.

>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Dave Dodson		                             dodson@convex.com
>Convex Computer Corporation      Richardson, Texas      (214) 497-4234

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102956
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <34544@oasys.dt.navy.mil> glouie@oasys.dt.navy.mil (George Louie) writes:
>In rec.autos, nancy@hayduke (Nancy Feagans) writes:
>>Ashtrays and cigarette lighters.  These should be an *option*.
>
>Why make it an option.  You can use the ashtray to store coins and other
>small things which come in handy. Use the cigarette lighter as an electrical
>outlet for all types of handy gadgets (CD players, vacuum cleaners,
>flashlights, etc.)  I don't want to pay extra for these things and if
>you don't use them, they don't hurt you.

I use the ashtray to keep change and other items in. I converted the 
cigarette lighter into a volume control knob for my in trunk subwoofer!


>
>
>George
>>--

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102957
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <19APR199316162857@erich.triumf.ca> music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:
>In article <C5r1Iy.8v0@SSD.intel.com>, jrowell@ssd.intel.com (Janet Rowell)
> writes...
>#>Could we plase cease this discussion.  I fail to see why people feel the need 
>#>to expound upon this issue for days and days on end.  These areas are not
>#> meant for this type of discussion.  If you feel the need to do such things,
>#> please take your thought elsewhere.  Thanks.
># 
>   Exactly my point.  There is a lot of hostility to, and from, teenagers.
>
>   If you follow the news for the northwest USA, you will have heard that a
> group of 20-year old boys (barely out of the teens, certainly their outlook
> was developed during their teens) just shot and killed an innocent little
> girl riding in a car in the Seattle area when her mother (who was driving)
> honked her horn at the car with the boys in it.  This is really upsetting
> and makes my stomach turn as it would any parent's.   Doesn't your heart
> just go out to that poor mother?
>   Teenagers both drive cars and are involved in automotive vandalism and
> crime.  Maybe someone on this newsgroup has had specific experience in
> dealing with violent teenage offenders like these kids are.  At the same

It seems sad that people lose all perspective when they here about a
case of violence by teenagers...

For a little perspective:

How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?

Did you read about all the kids at Stanford who spent their spring
breaks helping out in inner city areas? What about the hundreds of
volunteers ( teenagers and others) who worked to clean up the mess
after the Rodney King riots in LA?

Have you gone to your local high school play recently? Attended the
school orchestra performances? Have you seen how many kids volunteer
to pick up trash, plant trees, do walk-a-thons? How many kids have
tried to sell you stuff to benefit organizations they belong to? How
many girl scout cookies have you bought? How many chocolate bars for
good causes?

The media picks up on all the anomalies, the sensational...

What about the wonderful teenagers all over the place who work hard at
school, get good grades, go to college (or to work) and make a real
contribution to our society?

All humans are teenagers at some time in their lives! Mother Theresa
was a teenager and so was Geoffrey Dahmer.

It is really sad to see so many people who buy the sensational
reporting of the media as some kind of reflection of the world today!
It is a reflection of what is happening on the outer fringes of our
society and nothing more...

rf

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102958
From: jyow@desire.wright.edu
Subject: Re: Alarm systems: are they worthwhile?

In article <1993Apr19.164451.3744@news.eng.convex.com>, Dave Dodson <dodson@convex.COM> writes:
> Is it worthwhile to get an alarm system on a new car?
> 
> What features are important?
> 
> What features are unimportant?

That is a question that can only be answered by yourself and where you live. 
If you live in a place where crime is apparent, then it might be a good idea to
get one simply as a deterrent.  However, if a professional thief wants your
vehicle, its as good as gone no matter what you do.  But to slow down any
thieves it would be a good idea to get the basic options.  That would be:

1)	ignition kill or fuel cut-off
2)	a flashing red LED

These two are basic to a decent alarm system.  
To slow down the criminal some more, get a steering wheel lock.
That should be sufficient to persuade the thief to find an easier target.
But, then there's always car-jacking.  
Why is life so confusing?
I hope I helped somewhat.

************************************************************************
Jason Yow				Human Factors Psychology Program
Wright State University, Dayton, OH	E-mail: jyow@desire.wright.edu
************************************************************************

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102959
From: ljbartel@naomi.b23b.ingr.com (Les Bartel)
Subject: Fast idle on 88 Ford Ranger

It did it again.  This morning, my 88 Ford Ranger was idling at 10,000 RPM.
Ok, so I exaggerated a little, but it was idling very fast.  It has a 2
liter carburated engine in it, and no blipping of the throttle would
cause the idle to drop back to normal (I don't think the linkage is stuck).
What can I do to fix this problem?  This has been a problem from time to
time, but has straightened itself out - until now.  I don't have a tach,
but by gauging by the sound of the engine, it is idling about twice as fast
as it should be.  This is down from what it was idling at when I pulled up
at a stop light.

Many thanks for any suggestions.

 - les

-- 
Les Bartel			I'm going to live forever
Intergraph Corporation		... or die trying
Electronics Division		
ljbartel@ingr.com
or ljbartel@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
(205) 730-8537

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102960
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

I guess that makes Altima the most generic car in the US.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102961
From: jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen)
Subject: Re: No-Haggle Deals...Save $$???

A local dealer is advertising "No negotiation necessary!"
Make you wonder...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102962
From: nathanp@sco.COM (Nathan)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT)


"Jeremy G. Mereness" <zonker+@CMU.EDU> says:
>
>Can anyone offer any opinions of the Ford Probe... ala how they do in
>the long run, repair records, reliability, mileage, etc?
>
>I am fixing to buy a car in the next few months aiming toward something
>a little bigger than a typical small car and with a little more power. I
>am considering the MX-6, Probe, Accord, Corolla, and the 240SX. 
>
>The Probe is the youngest of the bunch, thus my interest in opinions.
>But every magazine and ratings book places it as an excellent value.
>BTW, the 240SX is rear-wheel drive and is due for a re-design for 1994. 
>
>Thanks in Advance!

While I don't read normally read this group, I was looking for Valentine radar
information (sigh, maybe in the FAQ) and came across your posting..

I bought a '93 Probe GT with the PEP 263A last July (now at 9500 miles)
after debating over the Sentra SE-R/NX2000, MX6, MR-2, Stealth, Prelude, 
and Celica.

Check this month's Consumer Reports for previous Probe records.  

My criteria: a "fun" car with ABS, airbag, over 130hp, and less than $25K.
I thought about a turbo, but checking with insurance people ruled that out.
The Tri-Star cars (Eclipse/Talon/etc) were out since they don't have an air bag.
Ditto for the Mustang(also no ABS).
The SE-R/NX2000/M20 fell into the pocket-rocket category.  A good used car buy.
The MX-6 was almost there but rolled more than I liked.  
I didn't like the Prelude dash/instrumentation at all.  Too weird for me.
The MR2 has a much smaller non-passenger space than I needed, so out that went.
The Celica was "ok" but underpowered when loaded with options (and somewhat
overpriced too) in non-turbo form.
I never considered the 240SX since it didn't have an airbag.  I did look at it
for its RWD virtues but that's it.  The Corolla never entered my mind.
I should have looked at the Mitsubishi VR4/Dodge Stealth more.
Since my list was exhausted, I bought the Probe.  :-)

The car design is different than earlier years, so it's too early to see its
reliability so far.  For what it's worth, my comments:

My dislikes:
Shutting door with windows up from inside rarely makes good wind seal.
Headlights have "stuck" up a few times (weather?)
air conditioning broke ~4000 miles (pressure cycling switch)
condensation around rear washer fluid container doesn't drain completely.
crammed engine; little hope for do-it-yourselfers (typical)
parts somewhat more expensive than normal Ford parts
underside plastic doesn't like sharp driveways and speedbumps (typical).
assembly gripes: tape on radiator, screw fell out of dash, seat seams not 
stitched properly.  Hopefully just a fluke.
Ford only gives 1 key with the car.  C'mon Ford, spend an extra few pennies!
Rear hatch has no padding on corners when up.  I'm waiting for the day when
I bash my head on the corner.
horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in center (personal preference)
Tires fling dirt/mud onto side of car 

My Likes:
engine (design/valves/sounds/smoothness/power/mileage/torque) -- definitely #1
handling (very good for FWD; understeer only at limits)
transmission (the 5 speed is a must)
usable instrumentation (lovely readable analog everywhere)
Very little torque steer at full power (much better than the '90 SHO I drive)
stability at 100+mph (high gearing though)
low cowl (good visibility in front)
Heated outside mirrors (nice in fog, never tested in freezing weather)
ABS/Air bag (see above)
rear seats fold down (I have few rear seat passengers so a trunk not important)
No shake/rattle noises when going over bumps/potholes (still!)
Tires: 225/55VR16 Goodyear Eagles (70% left; hoping for 30K :-)

As you can see, I'm primarily interested in the engine.  While it doesn't
have the uummmph of a big-liter car or the turbo rush, the big selling
point for me was the all-aluminum 24 value 2.5 liter engine.  

The overall car is a good buy for the money.  That market segment hasn't changed
much since July (Prelude VTEC, Honda Del Sol??).  I drive it to and from work
each day on relatively smooth roads, and most noticable thing is that the
Probe's suspension doesn't like potholes.  When you test drive one, find a 
potholed road somewhere around town and see if the jarring you get is tolerable.
If you have 3+ passengers, by all means bring them along too.  They'll find
that they have no room in the back and you'll find that the car rides
differently (if that's "better" is up to you).  Also, there's a lot of glass
around you which I wasn't expecting; the temperature inside the car gets pretty
hot in the summer.  My back seat passengers (now very few) complain about
the lack of ventilation; you may want to consider that when combined with
the heat.  I've heard that the exhaust system has trouble, but mine works fine.
Leather and the keyless entry system weren't available when I got the car so
I can't comment on them (I got the car before it was officially announced).  
I prefer cloth to leather anyway.  

I wouldn't want this car in the snow:  The suspension is too rough for the
inevitable surprise potholes, tires aren't meant for snow, and the seats assume
that you're not wearing lots of thick clothing.  Rain is much better:  water 
generally beads off the windshield at freeway speed, the windshield wiper
controls are easy and understandable, and I barely hydroplaned once with the
Eagles (and I was really trying).  
There is also a definite lack of cup holder/small storage places.  The GT
has map holders below the speakers in the door, but they're rigid plastic
that could fit two cassettes or CD's max.  The center console/storage bin/arm
rest has *1* cup holder and the back of the front seats have a cloth "pouch"
but that's it.  No change holders.  Quite a let-down from the SHO.
And the Probe is definitely not a people-mover car or an econo-box car!

Lastly, don't store wet car covers in the back.  The foam will soak the 
water up and the result will *not* smell pleasant :-(.

Nathan
nathan@sco.com

>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|Jeremy Mereness                 | Support     | Ye Olde Disclaimer:    |
>|zonker+@cmu.edu (internet)      |    Free     |  The above represent my|
>| FAST Project, CMU-GSIA         |     Software|   opinions, alone.     |
>|B.S. Mechanical Engineering, CMU|             |     Ya Gotta Love It.  |
>|               Every Silver Lining's Got a Touch of Grey               |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       This year marks the 200th anniversary of the Bill of Rights
>


-- 
MX: nathan@sco.com 
     "NO COMMENT"/They're coming to take me away, Ha-Ha! -- Napolean XIV

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102963
From: mgqlu@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Max Lu)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

We are working on gas-solid adsorption air-con system for auto applications.
In this kind of system, the energy for regenerating the adsorbent is from 
the exhaust gas.  Anyone interested in this mail email me or follow up this
thread, we may have a discussion on prospects of this technology.

Max 

-- 
Max G Q Lu, PhD 				|  Internet: mgqlu@ntu.ac.sg
Division of Thermal Enginerring			|  Bitnet: mgqlu@ntuvax.bitnet
School of MPE, Nanyang Technological University |  Phone: (65) 7994818
Nanyang Avenue, Singapore 2263			|  Fax:   (65) 7911859

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102964
From: vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:

> In article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU> ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Vel
> >This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
> >Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
> >throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
> >cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
> >a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
> >in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
> >made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
> >doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.
> >
> >What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
> >can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
> >20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
> >
> >Erik velapold
> 
> Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason
> is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is
> "No Big Deal". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort 
> children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised
> when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the
> message they hear is "Life is Cheap"!
> 
> AT

Well people fortunatly or unfortunatly ,
only the US is experiencing the devaluation of human life (among 
developed nations).

I am an American but I was raised in Europe, where the worst thing that 
can happen to somebody is get his car broken into, or have his pocket
picked by Slaves or Russian refugees.

Of cource there will be some nutcases, but thats extremely rare.

I.e. in Greece you can walk through any neighborhood at any time during
the night without even worrying.

In Germany , you can walk the sidewalks at 4.00 am and not even look 
behind your back, at the sanitation crews that clean the streets to a 
sparkling cleen.

Whoever of you have been there you know what I am saying.

I dont have any easy answers but if we as a nation do some selfcritisism
we might get somewhere.

Of course these postings sould be in soc.culture.US but if we reduce
crime here it 'll mean less car insurance rates ,thus we could spend
more money on modifing our cars. (Now my posting is rec.autos.tech 
revelant).

Vlasis  Theodore

___________________
Software Engineer
IDB Mobile Communications.

Sig under development ...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102965
From: vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

neilson@seoul.mpr.ca (Robert Neilson) writes:

> [sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]
> 
> > That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselve
> > and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is 
> > imminent.
> >
> > Steve Heracleous
> 
> You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
> go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
> job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
> me - those kids are mean.

Ditto,

I you dont do it yourself nobody, will.
Unless I am behind you, so both of us can shoot them bastards.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102966
From: europa@tomcat.raleigh.ibm.com (Welch Bryan)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.222254.6651@rtfm.mlb.fl.us>, gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker) writes:
|> Why crawl under the car at all? I have a machine I got for my boat that 
|> pulls the oil out under suction through the dip stick tube. It does an
|> excellent job and by moving the suction tube around, you can get more 
|> old oil out than by using the drain plug. I think I paid $25 at E&B Marine.
|> The oil goes into a steel 3 gal can - wait until it cools and decant into
|> your favorite device. I use soft drink bottles. Easy to take them down to
|> the local oil recycle center.

This does sound good, but I heard it tends to leave more grit, etc in the 
oil pan.  Also, I've been told to change the old when it's hot before the
grit has much time to settle.

Any opinions?

-- 
Bryan Welch                                  Amateur Radio: N0SFG
Internet: europa@vnet.ibm.com (best), bwelch@scf.nmsu.edu 
Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb
Disclaimer: It's all opinion.  Everything.  So there.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102967
From: europa@tomcat.raleigh.ibm.com (Welch Bryan)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5JoIt.E31@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, neil@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Neil Williams) writes:
|> larose@austin.cs.utk.edu (Brian LaRose) writes:
|> 
|> >This just a warning to EVERYBODY on the net.  Watch out for
|> >folks standing NEXT to the road or on overpasses.   They can
|> >cause SERIOUS HARM to you and your car.  
|> 
|> >(just a cliff-notes version of my story follows)
|> 
|> >10pm last night, I was travelling on the interstate here in
|> >knoxville,  I was taking an offramp exit to another interstate
|> >and my wife suddenly screamed and something LARGE hit the side
|> >of my truck.  We slowed down, but after looking back to see the
|> >vandals standing there, we drove on to the police station.
|> 
|> >She did get a good look at the guy and saw him "cock his arm" with
|> >something the size of a cinderblock, BUT I never saw him. We are 
|> >VERY lucky the truck sits up high on the road; if it would have hit
|> >her window, it would have killed her. 
|> 
|> >The police are looking for the guy, but in all likelyhood he is gone. 
|> 
|> >I am a very good driver (knock on wood), but it was night-time and
|> >I never saw the guy.  The police said they thought the motive was to
|> >hit the car, have us STOP to check out the damage, and then JUMP US,
|> >and take the truck.  
|> 
|> >PLEASE BE AWARE OF FOLKS.  AND FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, PLEASE DON'T STOP!!!!
|> 
|> >peace.
|> 
|> 
|> >-- 
|> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
|> >brian larose  larose@cs.utk.edu   #12, 3103 Essary Rd. Knoxville, TN 37918.
|> 
|> >{}
|> 
|> As long as we're on the subject... Several years ago myself and two others
|> were riding in the front of a Toyota pickup heading south on Interstate 5
|> north of Seattle, WA. Someone threw a rock of an overpass and hit our
|> windshield. Not by accident I'm sure, it was impossible to get up to the
|> overpass quickly to see who did it. We figured it was kids, reported it and
|> left.
|> A couple of years ago it happend again and killed a guy at my company. He was
|> in his mid-fourties and left behind a wife and children. Turned out there was
|> a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old
|> that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do?
|> I don't think I'll over forget this story.

In Des Moines, Iowa, about a year ago, some kid dropped a rock from an 
overpass and hit car just behind the windshield.  It put a dent in the roof, 
so I guess I was lucky it hit metal.

It's frustrating that we can't do much.  Bother the city government to put
covers on all overpasses?  Slow down/speed up a bit when driving under all
overpasses in the city?  I like the first better, but that will take time
and lots of people talking to the city governments.

Just another .02...

-- 
Bryan Welch                                  Amateur Radio: N0SFG
Internet: europa@vnet.ibm.com (best), bwelch@scf.nmsu.edu 
Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb
Disclaimer: It's all opinion.  Everything.  So there.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102968
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Too fast

boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>The quality of autobahns is something of a myth. The road surface
>isn't much different to a typical TX freeway. They are better
>in terms of lighting, safety, signs, roadmarkings etc.

They light the highways in Texas?  Funny, everywhere else I've been
they only light 'em at junctions.

I won't even get into how much road markings vary between states and
localities except to say that there are some areas where markings are
essentially nonexistant.

>>than most of the roads here. A dip in the asphalt that you test your
>>shocks on at 60 will kill you at 130. Don't get me wrong, I love to

>It would have to be quite severe. I don't recall any US freeway,
>without road damage warnings, that i would regard as unsafe
>at 130 in any decent, well damped car.

I suspect you have very limited experience -- US freeways vary
dramatically, particularly between states.  I can name a number of
interstate highways in various parts of the country where 130 would be
very optimistic in any car.

I'm not sure what you call "quite severe" in terms of road deviations
but I suspect every single bridge junction on I84 through CT would be
considered so.  They're hard to take at 85mph.  That's not the only
interstate I've seen with such deviations, but it's one I drive
frequently.

Texas is pretty much an edge-case -- you can't assume that everywhere
has roads in such good condition, such flat terrain, and such
wide-open spaces.  It just ain't so.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102969
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

Wharf Wrat rites:

>They were designed for speeds of upwards of 80 - I forget the
>exact spec - but for military vehicles.  That's 80 in a 1958 Dodge 
>Powerwagon.  Not 80 in a 1993 Ford Taurus.

Ever' once in a while, you still see a reference to the super-
slab system as "Interstate and Defense Highways."  But whether
the military has much of anything that goes 80 on the road is
another matter.  A few of their most whomped-up diesel trucks,
maybe, load permitting.  The military surplus stuff I've
driven -- "Jeep Classic" (Willys/Kaiser/AMC, pre-independent
suspension) and Power Wagons (Slant 6 in a crew-cab pickup)
weren't exactly congenial at highway speeds, and I wouldn't
swear any of them would do 80 except as a bedload on a semi.

You just gotta love the standard military tire, too, or at
least the one they used to use.  Designed circa WW II as a
compromise between traction in icky sticky goo and longevity
on sharp rocks and so forth, it's quite ill-adapted to high
speeds on civilian roadways.  For those who can't remember
what they look like, imagine a mountain-bike tire with a
road rib in the middle, scaled up to car size. Oh, yeah, and
narrow too. One of the standard mods for civilizing a surplus 
Jeep was to install tires and wheels that reflected some of
the advancements made in ride and handling since D-Day.

But the point made by Wharfie and others still stands:  if
you're going to do 80 in a mil-spec '58 Power Wagon (or a
Jeep or a tank transporter or other unwieldy rubber-tired
vehicle) anywhere, I'd suggest the American interstate.  
Your safe speed there tends to be limited more by your car
and skills, road maintenance, and the swarms of fools around
you; the roads were designed for going like the devil.

Naturally, neither I nor my employer advocates unsafe or
unlawful driving.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102970
From: Stefan.M.Gorsch@dartmouth.edu (Stefan M. Gorsch)
Subject: Importing Volvo?

Well, I'm afraid the time has come; my rice-burner has finally died.
I'd always promised my wife that we would do a Scandanavian tour when
my car died and pick up a Volvo in Sweden, drive it around and then
import it home. 

Can anyone give me 1) advice on feasibility and relative costs 2)
references where I might learn more 3) Personal experience?

Please email

Thanks

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102971
From: ceng@mdd.comm.mot.com (Curtis Eng)
Subject: Selling a car through a car hunter

Anybody got any good/bad experience with selling their car through one of
those car hunters?  I'm selling a 1991 Dodge Stealth R/T and I was contacted
by this company called the Markham group based out of Illinois.  

They said they have 7-10 buyers in my area interested in my car or they wouldn't
be talking to me.  They talked to me for a good 20 minutes asking everything
about my car and said they could sell it no problem.  They guaranteed that if
they didn't sell my car in 75 days, I would get my money back ($389) and since
I charged it, I'm protected by federal law which states that if I'm not satisfied,
I would get a refund (which is true).  They federal expressed all the paperwork 
to me which had a contract stating their policy about the 75 days and such.

I called up the BBB in Illinois and they do not have a file on them which is
good news.  So they definitely are a legitimate company but so far, it's been
over week and I have gotten nothing.  So how effective are these types of 
companies? Anybody care to share their experiences?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102972
From: joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt)
Subject: Re: Trading in a car that's not paid for...Pointers Please

In article <49422@fibercom.COM> rrg@rtp.fibercom.com (Rhonda Gaines) writes:
>
>I'm planning on purchasing a new car and will be trading in my '90
>Mazda MX-6 DX.  I've still got 2 more years to pay on it.  How does
>that get taken into account when I purchase my new car?  Does the
>dealership pay off my car and add on the amount they had to pay to
>the purchase price of the new car?  someone please explain this to
>me.

If you don't already know it, you should call the bank/credit union/
finance company that holds the loan on your present car and get the
current payoff cost.

If you are trading in your current car on the new car, subtract the
payoff amount from the trade-in the dealer is giving you.  (If this
turns out to be a negative number, you need to reconsider the deal.)
Subtract this difference from the price of the new car.  This is the
size of the loan you will need for the new car.

The dealer will take care of paying off the loan on your old car out
of the money you give them when you pick up your new car.

At least that's how it worked for me 5 years ago in Ohio...

>
> -thanks
>  rhonda



-- 
Joseph Staudt, Telxon Corp. | joes@telxon.com
P.O. Box 5582               | "Usenet is like Tetris for people who still
Akron, OH  44334-0582       |  remember how to read."
(216) 867-3700 x3522        |           -- J. Heller

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102973
From: sjp@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Steve Phillips)
Subject: Re: Ford and the automobile

: Ford and his automobile.  I need information on whether Ford is
: partially responsible for all of the car accidents and the depletion of
: the ozone layer.  Also, any other additional information will be greatly
: appreciated.  Thanks. 
: 
SSSSSoooooooooooo!!!!! Its all HIS fault!! Thank God Louis Chevrolet is 
innocent! and that guy Diesel, HE otto feel guilty!


--
Stephen Phillips
Atlanta Response Center
Atlanta, Ga.
Home of the Braves!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102974
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
>How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
>agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?

Hear, hear!  Thanks, Robbie.

You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as
George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,
who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.


On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers
for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be.
Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do
with people of all ages.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102975
From: tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com (Tommy Szeto)
Subject: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually happens
after a good thunder storm.  A few Qs:

1) Is this a common problem?
2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?

Thanks for any info.
Tom

-- 
Tom Szeto                         "No!  Not those peanuts!  The ones on the
tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com       bottom....ggnuuaahuuhh" 
#include <disclaimer.h>            - Homer Simpson

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102976
From: rll@frieda.mitre.org (Roberto L. Landrau)
Subject: Re: Eagle Talon TSi--LEMON?

In rec.autos Jay Lorenzana <U40348@uicvm.uic.edu> wrote:
>
>Dear Netters:
>
>I am looking to buy a used Eagle Talon '91 or '91 TSi AWD.

I would be concerned about how the car was driven and how well it was
maintained.  I own a turbocharged one, and I would never buy a
turbocharged vehicle unless I knew the owner and his/her
driving/maintenance habits.

>Question is that the '91 TSi AWD was mentioned in the
>April Consumer Reports to a car to avoid!

I have been wondering about that myself.  The '90 AWD models and the
'91s were identical (except for the ABS option).  

>In particular, the manual transmission,

Yes.  Some owners had problems with the transaxles.  Using
synthetic lubricants in the transaxles solved the problem in most
cases.  The problem was not unique to the AWDs, however.  It was
common to all models.  The Galant VR4 and GSX had the same transaxle,
but I didn't see those listed in CR.

>electrical system,

I don't know of any major complaints in this area, except that the
battery that was installed at the factory had a low current rating. 

>and brakes were below par (in both models).

The first FWD models (those built before May 1989) were recalled for
brake upgrades.  Some FWD and AWD owners had problems with warped
rotors.  Those of us who insist on using manual torque wrenches every
time the lug nuts are tightened have never had a problem.

>A friend of mine
>ownes a '90 TSi AWD and he has had 2 brake jobs (pads),

I can refer you to someone who has gone through a set of pads in one
day!  It all depends on how you drive.  It seems that most owners have
been getting between 40-70k on a set of pads.

>one stuck valve,

First time I hear about a problem with the valve train on these cars,
other than timing belt failures.

>and some clutch/transmission problem, something
>about sticking/grinding into second gear.  This doesn't seem
>too bad if one "beats" on his car.

If your friend "beats" on the car, then his unit is not a
representative sample of the car's reliability.

My suggestion is instead of listening to the useless Consumer Reports,
talk to several owners (the mailing list may be the best way to reach
a few of them).

>I am willing to suffer reliability--for speed and looks.  Seems
>you have to pay big buck if you want all three.  Anyway can
>anyone please let me know how you like your Talon, and any
>problems you may have had, and if the repairs are worth it.

#if (humor_impaired) skip_to TheEnd
No matter how much you pay, you won't get all three.  Examples:

NSX:       reliability and looks.
Ferrari:   reliability ^H^H^H^H^H^H (yeah, right!) speed and looks

TheEnd
--
The opinions stated above are not necessarily my employer's.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Roberto L. Landrau    KC1YP    landrau@mitre.org  rll@linus.mitre.org
The MITRE Corporation  Bedford, MA 01730          rll@linus.UUCP

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102977
From: tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum)
Subject: Is car saftey important? 

   I was recently thumbing through the 1993 Lemon-Aid New
Car Guide.  What I found was a car would be given a 'Recommended'
under the picture while a few sentences later noting how a
driver and passenger were virtually guaranteed to be killed
in a front end collision.  The most highly recommended small
car (The Civic) has the worst crash rating of all of the small
cars listed.  There were many such cases of 'great' vehicles
where you wouldn't survive an accident.  Is it only me, or is
safety not one of the most important factors when buying a car?



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102978
From: joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt)
Subject: Re: Renting from Alamo	

In article <1993Apr20.142818.14969@ericsson.se> etxmst@sta.ericsson.se writes:
>Hello netters!
>
>I'm visiting the US (I'm from Sweden) in August. I will probably rent a Chevy
>Beretta from Alamo. I've been quoted $225 for a week/ $54 for additional days.
>This would include free driving distance, but not local taxes (Baltimore). 
>They also told me all insurance thats necessary is included, but I doubt that,
> 'cause a friend rented a car last year and it turned out he needed a lot more
>insurance than what's included in the base price. But on the other hand he 
>didn't rent it from Alamo.
>
>Does anyone have some info on this?
>
>Is $225 a rip-off? 
No, that sounds pretty reasonable for that car and that city.

>Probability that I'll be needing more insurance?
Unless you have an accident, you won't need more.  If you plan on
paying for the car with a credit card, check and see if your card
automatically covers rental cars.  Also, your own auto insurance may
cover rental cars also.

Most rental companies here offer extra insurance when you rent, and
require you to initial in several spots if you don't want it.  The
credit cards and personal auto insurance provide the same sort of
coverage that the rental agency is trying to sell.

I have never rented from Alamo, so I don't know if they follow this
same practice.

>Is the beretta a good rental car?
Yes.  It is a compact 2-door, probably a bit dull performance and
acceleration-wise, but very adequate.  It will have an automatic
transmission, AM/FM stereo, air conditioning, and possibly power 
windows and door locks.

Joe



-- 
Joseph Staudt, Telxon Corp. | joes@telxon.com
P.O. Box 5582               | "Usenet is like Tetris for people who still
Akron, OH  44334-0582       |  remember how to read."
(216) 867-3700 x3522        |           -- J. Heller

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102980
From: ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots


In a previous article,  (Eric Youngblood) says:

>In article <Apr19.195700.19699@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:

>[race car stuff deleted]

Back to the F1 stuff for a second, note that the `auto' tranny in F1
_STILL_ shifts at the driver's command, not some preselected schedule.  The
driver still controls the shifting, not the transmission. 

>|> now, there is no dispute that in production cars, automatics are
>|> inherently more lossy than manuals.  that is in theory.  my point all
>|> along is that whatever mechanical advantages a manual has over an
>|> automatic can very easily be lost by a driver who isn't skillful or

>One thing that gives an automatic an advantage at launch is the fact that
>it has a torque converter vs a clutch.  I know this sounds strange but,
>a torque converter multiplies the engine output when launching.  It functions
          ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^
>as a sort of limited Continuously Variable Transmission. Typically you get 
>a torque multiplication of 2 to 3 times depending on the stall speed.

I have yet to see a torque multiplier installed on a production automobile. 
Such systems do exist, but none are presently installed in production autos
that I am aware of.  These are commonly called viscous drive CVTs or
fluidic amplifiers. 

>Contrasted to a clutch which merely slips when feathered (result is no TQ mult)

What the convertor _does_ allow is for the engine to be closer to its
torque peak during the launch before a clutched car can fully engage it's
driveline.  Chevy proved it many years ago with the '70 Camaro (ETs and
terminal 1/4 mile times were close enough tpo be identical for 4 speed and
auto cars).  Note that this is also the major reason that an auto car can
get away with fewer gears than a manual, the slip in the convertor makes up
for the fewer ratios (and before everyone starts yelling about the proposed
5 sspeed autos soon to be out, note that some manufacturers are using 6
speed manulas now). 

>Once past lauch however, the converter begins coupling and the TQ multiplication
>effect is reduced, but by then you should be on the cam.

Correct.
-- 
Al Bowers  DOD #900  Alfa  Ducati  Hobie  Kottke  'blad  Iaido  NASA
"Well goodness sakes...don't you know that girls can't play guitar?"
                                             -Mary Chapin-Carpenter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102981
From: <U37955@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Internal leak in carburetor

Hi,

My friend's 1983 Toyota Tercel accelerates by itself without using
the gas peddel. The repairman said it has a internal leak of air in
the carburetor and needs a new carburetor (costs $650). She likes
to know if it is possible to fix the problem without replacing
the whole carburetor.

Thank you.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102982
From: jackw@boi.hp.com (jack wood)
Subject: BBB Autoline Arbitration


My BBB Autoline arbitration experience is over.  
The outcome was decidedly mixed.  I won the battle but 
lost the war.  The arbitrator found that the car was 
defective, but decided to offer a repurchase well below 
market value :(.  At the time of the hearing, average 
retail on my truck in the NADA book was $21,025, but 
the decision was for  $17,665.  I wrote a letter to the 
Council of Better Business Bureaus pointing out the 
fact that if you have an automobile that does not 
depreciate rapidly, the manufacturer has no incentive 
to deal with you.  There is no way that the 
manufacturer can loose because they can turn around and 
sell the vehicle at a profit if the consumer is awarded 
a repurchase.  The attitude of Chevrolet's 
representative at the hearing tends to support this 
point of view;  he was totally unprepared and did not 
seem to take the proceeding very seriously.

I decided to take the repurchase, even though I am 
getting totally screwed on the price.  I will not have 
to deal with continuing repairs or selling a lemon 
myself, and I have no case for a civil suit based on 
the Idaho lemon law.  I am planning to send a letter to 
my elected representatives telling them how utterly 
ridiculous the Idaho lemon law is.  The law allows for 
a "use deduction" equal to the IRS mileage allowance.  
As if Chevrolet were buying my gas and paying 
for my insurance.

Summary of the case:  In May 1992 I bought a new 3/4 ton
HD Chevrolet pickup.  Between May 1992 and December 1992 
this vehicle required repair after repair.  Systems 
that required attention included the transmission, 
heater fan, paint, suspension, and motor.  The main 
problem was the five speed manual transmission.  They 
could not install a non-defective transmission in at 
least four attempts.

So, in summary, it is possible to get a repurchase, but 
you are going to get screwed on the price, unless you 
paid too much in the first place, or if your car 
happens to be a model that depreciates rapidly.

jackw@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102983
From: storrs@eos.ncsu.edu (JERRY STORRS)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


In article <19APR199316162857@erich.triumf.ca>, music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:
|>Xref: taco alt.parents-teens:1937 rec.autos:101669
|>Path: taco!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!caen!destroyer!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!erich.triumf.ca!music
|>From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
|>Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens,rec.autos
|>Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...
|>Date: 19 Apr 1993 16:16 PST
|>Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
|>Lines: 52
|>Distribution: world
|>Message-ID: <19APR199316162857@erich.triumf.ca>
|>References: <C5JoIt.E31@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> <18APR199309481599@erich.triumf.ca> <1qs4a9$f87@bigboote.WPI.EDU> <C5r1Iy.8v0@SSD.intel.com>
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca
|>Summary: Violent Teenagers and victims need help.
|>Keywords: brick, rock,  danger, gun, violent, teenagers
|>News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
|>
|>In article <C5r1Iy.8v0@SSD.intel.com>, jrowell@ssd.intel.com (Janet Rowell)
|> writes...
|>#>Could we plase cease this discussion.  I fail to see why people feel the need 
|>#>to expound upon this issue for days and days on end.  These areas are not
|>#> meant for this type of discussion.  If you feel the need to do such things,
|>#> please take your thought elsewhere.  Thanks.
|># 
|>#I just want to second this request. I value this net group as one where people
|>#focus on solving problems and go out of their way to be respectful of
|>#differences. The hostility expressed in the original posting feels like an
|>#assault. 
|># 
|>#Thanks,
|>#Jan 
|># 
|>
|>   Exactly my point.  There is a lot of hostility to, and from, teenagers.
|>
|>   Look, I sent these posts here to alt.parents-teens (with a copy to
|> rec.autos) since you people in this group may have the best advice for
|> and experience with troubled teenagers.
|>
|>   If you follow the news for the northwest USA, you will have heard that a
|> group of 20-year old boys (barely out of the teens, certainly their outlook
|> was developed during their teens) just shot and killed an innocent little
|> girl riding in a car in the Seattle area when her mother (who was driving)
|> honked her horn at the car with the boys in it.  This is really upsetting
|> and makes my stomach turn as it would any parent's.   Doesn't your heart
|> just go out to that poor mother?
|>

Yes, Fred, my heart and prayers go out to the mother and others who have 
been victims of these and other senseless crimes.

|>   You folks in this group have a responsibility to offer any good advice
|> that you may have.  I suspect lots of people all over the world will read
|> and appreciate your comments.
|>

However, I feel that you have missed the point of the previous postings (see 
top).  Your statement of 'responsibility' is felt as an attack towards the 
members of this group.  You are attempting to make the members of this group
be REQUIRED to answer.  The only people who should make a statement are people
who have experienced the problem and found a workable solution.

|>   Teenagers both drive cars and are involved in automotive vandalism and
|> crime.  Maybe someone on this newsgroup has had specific experience in
|> dealing with violent teenage offenders like these kids are.  At the same
|> time, maybe you would have some good advice for those hostile people who
|> sense that are now the potential victims.  Maybe you would have some good
|> advice for them on how not to pay back and/or not make the situation worse.  
|> Maybe you have some good advice for local authorities or schools where
|> this problem is prevalent.  But then again, maybe you're not interested. :-(

Many people are interested, but have no input.  I will restate that your last
sentence here is seen as an attack on the members of this group.  If people have
input, they will give it.  If they do not, YOU should not make them feel 
compelled (sp?) to respond.  

If you wish to continue this conversation, PLEASE send e-mail.  DO NOT repost or
attempt to bait me, I will not make another post (and may I make the same a
suggestion to other group members) on this matter.


|>
|>   Thanks in advance for your help, if we get any.
|>

BTW, your welcome.
-- 

===============================================================================
Jerry L. Storrs, System/Network Manager || ..."Why do you look for the living
Dept of Chemical Engineering, NCSU      || among the dead?  He is not here, 
   storrs@che.ncsu.edu (preferred)      || He is risen!"
   storrs@eos.ncsu.edu                  || ^^^^^^^^^^^       Luke 24:5-6     
                          <><           ||  THE LORD IS RISEN INDEED!!      
===============================================================================
Any statement made is the explicit belief of the writer and not the employer.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102984
From: dspalme@mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

: nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) writes:
: 
: > 
: > HELP!!!
: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
: 
jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry) writes:
:
: FYI, just last week the PBS show Motor Week gave the results of what they 
: thought were the best cars for '93.  In the convertible category, the 
: Honda Civic del Sol achieved this honor.  
:  
: The one down-side I see with the car is its interior, it looks 
: inexpensive and dull.
: 
I own a del Sol and I must vouch for the interior.  I really looks snazzy when
the top is off.  I looks a lot better in person than on the television.  (I saw
that Motorweek as well.  Needless to say I was smiling a bit by the time it
was over ...)  :*)

Watch out for that darned "convertible tan" tho...

Diane
dspalme@mke.ab.comm

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102985
From: jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche)
Subject: Re: VW Passat:  advice sought

In article <Apr.19.12.13.52.1993.387@remus.rutgers.edu> hong@remus.rutgers.edu (Hyunki Hong) writes:
>
>I am currently in the car market and would like opinions on a VW
>Passat GLX.  How does it compare to a Toyota Camry?  I thought the car
>looked very solid, stable and European.  Only disappointment so far is
>that that it doesn't offer an airbao my next question is, why isn't VW
>offering automobiles with airbags?  Should I pay the extra three
>thousand for a BMW 318 is even though it is smaller and less powerful
>than than the Passat?

I think VW got caught out on the airbag thing.  It's only been in the last
year or two that airbags have become a significant selling feature.
VW assumed that  automatic belts would satisfy govt. requirements for
passive restraint, but didn't guess that the 'merican consumer would
actually make buy decisions based on the presence of an airbag.

VW is really hurting right now in the US market.  Check out the
article in last week's Autoweek about the crisis at VW.  Golfs and
Jettas will be coming from the plant in Mexico, but they don't have
the quality at that facility.  As per normal VW practice, the US
launch of the Jetta III is delayed again and again, until a good chunk
of the useful life of the design is spent.

I think that Passats come from Germany, so there is not the same
quality and availability issue.  It's a nice car with a nice engine.
Whether VW will be a player in the US market in two year's time is a
different question...

I'll leave the Passat / Camry flamewar for someone else.




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102986
From: tspila@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tim Spila {Romulan})
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <1993Apr21.034751.23512@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> mgqlu@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Max Lu) writes:
>We are working on gas-solid adsorption air-con system for auto applications.
>In this kind of system, the energy for regenerating the adsorbent is from 
>the exhaust gas.  Anyone interested in this mail email me or follow up this
>thread, we may have a discussion on prospects of this technology.

Ok, I'll bite.  How is this supposed to work?

Tim.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102987
From: awds_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Adam Edwards)
Subject: Re: 86 chevy sprint

In <wfnMBJG00WBOE3L2c0@andrew.cmu.edu> Srinagesh Gavirneni <sg48+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>I have a 86 chevy sprint with a/c and 4doors. It's odometer turned 90k
>and the sensor light started blinking. I went to the dealer and he said
>it was a maintenance light saying I need to change the Oxygen sensor. He
>said, It is to be changed every 30k, but since I bought the car when it
>had 77k, I don't know if the same thing happened at 30k and 60k.  He
>quoted $198 for the part and $50 to install it. The part cost $30
>outside, but the mechanic I went to could not fix it saying the sensor
>is placed too deep in the engine parts. He suggested I wait till it
>malfunctions before I do anything.  If anyone out there owns a chevy
>sprint, I want to know how they got their Oxygen sensors changed. Also,
>did you face any problem with fixing it without the dealer's help. Also,
>what are the results of the oxygen sensor malfunction. 
>  Any help would be greatly apprecisted
>   Thanks




I sold my '86 Sprint last April with 95k on it.  I'd driven it since
the previous July, putting 20k miles on it.  The sensor light used to
light up regularly, starting about 5k miles after I bought it.  
My brother and I rebuilt the engine but used all of the original equipment,
so I suppose the sensor could have used replacement.  Performance (hah,
if you could call it that) did not change.  Perhaps emissions increased,
but how much emissions could a CA-registered 3 cylinder engine produce?
That was a neat car, I held the engine block easily in one hand!  Has
anyone ever driven the 'Turbo' variant?  Just curious...

	Adam Edwards
awds_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102988
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.

In article <1qqp2o$5ba@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-H
ung Wan) writes:
>
>In a previous article, ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) says:
>
>>I have $30,000 as my budget.  I'm looking for a sports or GT car.
>>
>>What do you think would be the best buy?  (I'm looking for specific models)
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Danny
>>--
>>
>>==============================================================================
=
>>=    "Hey! You programmers out there!     |    Danny Phornprapha
=
>>=     Please consider this:               |    ip02@lehigh.edu
=
>>=                                         |
=
>>=     Bugs are another endangered earth   |    LUCC Student Konsultant
=
>>=     Species needing your protection.    |    Work: (215) 758-4141
=
>>
>
>For an all out sports car, I'd go for the RX-7 without the sports
>suspension (which is too stiff.)  For a little more practicality and more
>comfort, the Nissan 300ZX Turbo is a good buy.  And for a good dose of
>luxury, the Lexus SC300 is perfect (with a manual transmission of course.)
>However, the Toyota Supra is coming out soon and if you like it's looks,
>the performance is supposed to be great, almost race car like.  I don't
>particulary like the Mitsubishi 3000GT's or the Dodge Stealths as they are
>too heavy and aren't very nimble handlers for a sports car.
>--
>A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
>Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
>
>"The mind is the forerunner of all states."
>
 The only thing about the 300ZX turbo and new Supra is they're about $10K or
 more over his budget...
-- 
                      " Be good,
                 and you will be lonely"
                                        Mark Twain

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102989
From: kmac@cisco.com (Karl Elvis MacRae)
Subject: Sport Utility Vehical comparisons? Any Opinions?



	I just read articals on this in Road and Track and Car and Driver
	(Is that one mag or two? =B^), and I was wondering if people out
	there have any opinions that differed from what these mags have to
	say...


	I'm looking at the following three SUV's; anyone who's driven all
	three have any strong opinions?


	Ford Explorer
	Toyota 4Runner
	Nissan Pathfinder


	Currently I'm leaning toward the Toyota, 'cause I've had big success
	with Toyota trucks in the past, and 'cause I think it's the best
	looking of the three. But I thought I'd see if anyone has any strong 
	opinions....



			Thanks!


	-Karl


  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Karl Elvis MacRae	Software Release Support	Cisco Systems
  kmac@cisco.com -or- batman@cisco.com     415-688-8231   DoD# 1999  FJ1200
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
	      "Shovels and rakes and implements of destruction"
						-Arlo Guthrie

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102990
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important?

tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes:
>Is it only me, or is
>safety not one of the most important factors when buying a car?

It depends on your priorities.  A lot of people put higher priorities
on gas mileage and cost than on safety, buying "unsafe" econoboxes
instead of Volvos.  I personally take a middle ground -- the only
thing I really look for is a three-point seatbelt and 5+mph bumpers.
I figure that 30mph collisions into brick walls aren't common enough
for me to spend that much extra money for protection, but there are
lots of low-speed collisions that do worry me.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102991
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr19.145238.9561@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
>anything if he hadn't emptied his gun into the asshole.  Texas--it's
>whole other country.

That reminds me of one of Texas's ads...you hear a guy speaking in
French (like it's a letter home), then the French moves to the 
background, and a French-accented voice come to the foreground, talking
about how he went walking on the beach, and it felt so much like
home that he decided to take his shoes off...and the rest of his
clothes. It ended with "please send bail." :-)

>On an rec.autos note, does anyone carry a gun on them or keep one in
>their car (which is bad idea, isn't it?) if you work in a bad part of
>town (or regularly go through one)?  Is this a loaded question?  :^)

I normally have an unloaded Colt Delta in my glove box with a loaded
magazine handy (which is perfectly legal in Oklahoma). For those
times that I'm travelling inter-state, I keep an unloaded 
S&W .44 Magnum revolver in the glove box, with a speed-loader
in my pocket (which is legal everywhere, under Federal law, Illinois
State Police be hanged).

As I've said before, this is stricly for defense; my insurance
will pay to replace my car, but I only have one life...

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102992
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Slick 50, any good?

Hmmm....I was listening to the local radio expert (who is, amazingly
enough, an Honest-to-God Expert(tm); it's amazing what he knows...), 
and he said that, based on his conversations with the inventor of 
Slick50 (who is no longer with the comapny, due to some kind of 
conflict), he avoids it like the plague.  He does recommend other 
teflon-based/type oil additives, though.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102993
From: bell@plains.NoDak.edu (Robert Bell)
Subject: Re: Info/Opinions Wanted on Cars In this Article

In article <1993Apr13.182100.26650@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>In article <49071@fibercom.COM> rrg@rtp.fibercom.com (Rhonda Gaines) writes:
>>
>>I'm in the market for a new car.  Currently I own a '90 Mazda MX-6 DX
>>which has served me just fine.  However, I'd like to get
>>a 4-door car since I don't relish the thought of moving a carseat
>>around in a 2-door car.  My criteria are: 4-door, a/c, am/fm cassette,
>>quick acceleration, cruise control, decent rear seat legroom (my
>>husband is a 6-footer).  It must also be under $20k
>>preferably closer to the 11-15k range (which will probably rule out
>>the Accord).  The '93 cars that have caught my eye are: Toyota Corolla, 
>>Toyata Camry, Mazda 626, Pontiac Grand Am, Pontiac Grand Prix, 
>>Honda Accord, (and Civic if it's roomy enough and still comes in a 
>>4-door model), Hyundai Sonata, and maybe even a small Oldsmobile, 
>>although not the Achieva.  All opinions, benchmarks,
>>recommendations, etc. are welcome.
>
>I really wouldn't consider the Grand Am/Achevia/Skylark (all the same)
>since they are very bad in frontal collsions and don't have any
>other really outstanding qualities.
>
>john
>-- 

I really must object to that last statement.  Having a lot of experience
with a '92 Grand Am coupe, I can firmly state that they do have a lot of
outstanding qualities.  Very reliable throughout.  Great layout of controls
and components.  Very roomy considering the exterior size of the car.  They 
look sharp inside and out.  The V6 that I drive has exceptional power and 
drivability compared to other similar cars that I have driven.

All in all, it's a fun-to-drive, dependable, and reasonably priced vehicle.
Please don't knock it with a statement like that unless you back it up with
specific reasons why you feel that way.

Rob
bell@plains.nodak.edu


>John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
>"To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
>something that happened to other people,   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
>wasn't it?" - The Black Adder               \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102994
From: lerxst@wam.umd.edu (where's my thing)
Subject: WHAT car is this!?

 I was wondering if anyone out there could enlighten me on this car I saw
the other day. It was a 2-door sports car, looked to be from the late 60s/
early 70s. It was called a Bricklin. The doors were really small. In addition,
the front bumper was separate from the rest of the body. This is 
all I know. If anyone can tellme a model name, engine specs, years
of production, where this car is made, history, or whatever info you
have on this funky looking car, please e-mail.

Thanks,
- IL
   ---- brought to you by your neighborhood Lerxst ----





Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102995
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102997
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Subject: Re: Sport Utility Vehical comparisons? Any Opinions?

> I just read articals on this in Road and Track and Car and Driver
> (Is that one mag or two? =B^), and I was wondering if people out
> there have any opinions that differed from what these mags have to say...

Depending on how you plan to use your SUV, I might recommend also
browsing Trailer Boats and one or more of those Pickup, Shotgun,
and 4WD magazines.  The car rags mostly seem to consider recently
graded pea gravel to be offroading and ten sacks of redwood chips
to be a bedload.  Considering that most of these SUVs seem to be 
used mostly as robust station wagons, that's probably not a bad
approach, but if your applications are more demanding, pick your
information sources accordingly.

Of the three vehicles on your short list (Explorer, 4Runner, 
Pathfinder), I'd recommend the 4Runner as being closely based 
on a rather robust pickup and the Explorer for being comfortably 
carlike.  Don't know much about the Pathfinder.

Good luck,
--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102998
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>
>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>I am quite interested in it.
>>Thanks!
>>Darren Gibbons
>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>	
>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????

Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.

Craig
>
>	Chintan Amin
>	llama@uiuc.edu
>
>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 102999
From: tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!)
Subject: MR2 - noisy engine.


G'day people,
	
	Are there any MR2 owners or motor-head gurus out there, that know why
my MR2's engine sounds noisy? The MR2's engine is noisy at the best of times, 
but not even a nice nose - it's one of those very ugly noises. 
	I do an oil change every 2-3 months, and for about 2 months the engine
noise sounds relatively quiet during driving and idling. At around the 3 month
mark, after an oil change (I've been tracking this very thoroughly for months
now) it starts to get that very disgusting noise, not so much during driving,
but more so during idling. 
	What's its problem? 
	Also.. I don't know if it's just me, but if noticed a little
performance drop. It just hasn't got the acceleration it used to. 

	Any help/tips would be appreciated!!


Worried.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103000
From: James Edward Burns <ddujeb@arco.com>
Subject: Re: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together!

In article <1qvgg3INNl0r@phantom.gatech.edu>
Graham E. Thomas, grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu
writes: > Alright, beat this automobile
sighting.

I can top that one.  Friday afternoon 4-16-93 I
look out my window in Long Beach CA.  What do I
see but the new Ferrari.  I looks like a mix
between the ragtop testarossa (sp?) and the batman
car.  It seems Ferrari had their Annual dinner
at the place downstairs.  Sweet car.


J.B.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103001
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

 sorry about that last post, my server neglected to send the message:

 Can we please keep this group to AUTOMOTIVE topics. Thank you.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103003
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:

>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>>I am quite interested in it.
>>>Thanks!
>>>Darren Gibbons
>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>>	
>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????

>Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
>chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
>be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.

>Craig

	I think the Manta is the European name for the "GT."  I'm pretty sure
that the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans.  I think the
GT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta.  
-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103004
From: maynard@convex.com (Mark Maynard)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>
>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.
>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>	
>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????
>	Chintan Amin


Sounds more like an Opel GT.  Neat cars, fun to drive.  Sold through
Buick from 196? through 1973 (if I remember correctly).  I believe it
was in '72 that there were some engine mods made such that parts
were not interchangeable with the older models.  Parts are thus much
harder to come by for the later models.  Parts in general are not
too difficult to find.  At one time JC Whitney carried some stuff
including a brand new (not remfg) long block.  Either a GT or a
Kharman Ghia (hmm that spelling looks hosed) will be my next project.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103005
From: stecz@pencom.com (John Steczkowski)
Subject: Re: $6700 for hail damage - a record?

In article <1993Apr19.235711.7285@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)  
writes:
> 
> 
> My 90 Integra was hit hard in the 3/25 hailstorm in Austin, TX. 
> The insurance company cut me a check for $6600 ($100 deductible)
> last week.  Is this a record? Anybody else had settlements from
> the same hailstorm yet?
> 
> Craig


Rumor has it that a guy at Dell Computer had his Miata totalled, so that would  
be about $10k.


--
--
  John Steczkowski                        stecz@pencom.com
    The Constitution grants you the right to life, liberty, and the
    *pursuit* of happiness.  It does not attempt to guarantee that
    everyone *will* be happy.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103006
From: hm002b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Hasit Mehta)
Subject: New '94 Talon?????

In article:

Is there such a thing as the new '94 Eagle Talon? I heard from a freind that
the new '94 Talons have been released? Is this true and if so what are the
differences between the '93 and '94? Any opinions? I would appreciate any
replies and I would also prefer E-mail, thanks!

-- 
Hasit S. Mehta                           ****************************
University of Rochester                  *       PRIMUS SUCKS!      *
hm002b@UHURA.CC.ROCHESTER.EDU            ****************************
______"I do believe in Captain Crunch, for I am the frizzle fry"______

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103007
From: tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <C5u5Fy.Hvx@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tspila@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tim Spila {Romulan}) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.034751.23512@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> mgqlu@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Max Lu) writes:
>>We are working on gas-solid adsorption air-con system for auto applications.
>>In this kind of system, the energy for regenerating the adsorbent is from 
>>the exhaust gas.  Anyone interested in this mail email me or follow up this
>>thread, we may have a discussion on prospects of this technology.
>
>Ok, I'll bite.  How is this supposed to work?
>
>Tim.

Better still, years ago they demonstrated a cold air system which only used
"air". It was called a Rovax. The unit worked very well, the short coming
was the seal technology. Where is it today?

AT

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103008
From: hacker@cco.caltech.edu (Jonathan Bruce Hacker)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon - Rovax

tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:

>Better still, years ago they demonstrated a cold air system which only used
>"air". It was called a Rovax. The unit worked very well, the short coming
>was the seal technology. Where is it today?

As I recall from reading posts here a while back, Rovax (Rovacs?) died
because it was larger and noisier than the competing cheap R12 systems
of it day.  Probably a case of bad timing.  I think the system would
have a better chance today now that R12 systems are on death row, but
investors may be hard to come by a second time.

-- 
Jon Hacker                         |  Get the OS/2 2.1 March Beta CD-ROM 
Caltech, Pasadena CA               |  for $20  ---  Call 1-800-3-IBM-OS2 
hacker@tumbler-ridge.caltech.edu   |  Read about it in comp.os.os2.beta

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103009
From: damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

hanguyen@megatest.com (Ha Nguyen) writes:

>In article <1993Apr14.203800.12566@progress.com> damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio) writes:
>>bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss) writes:
>>
>>>You could take a screw driver and hammer and start punching holes in
>>>various locations and when some black slippery stuff starts pouring
>>>out then you would know that the oil drain plug is nearby (within a foot
>>>or two anyway). Close the holes with toilet paper before refileing with oil
>>>though.
>>
>>You have to *refill* the engine with oil! Wow, no wonder I can't get
>>an engine to last more than my first oil change. Don't forget to
>>punch holes in the radiator too, it will spray nice refreshing water
>                    ^^^^^^^^
>>on the engine and keep it nice & cool. ;-)
>>
>>-Steve

>Gee, you really make me confused.  What is radiator?  Where is it located?
>What does it look like?  Will it release any radiation (since it sounds 
>like radia-tion genera-tor) when you punch holes?


Of course it releases radiation! Thats why your car goes faster when
you punch the holes in it. All that radiation gets on your engine
and gives it "pep" (scientific term). You get more horsepower &
torque too! If you don't know what HP & torque are, you can read
mile long threads on the subject, but they are all wrong. Horsepower
is how much power a horse can make pulling a Subaru, and torque is
a name invented by Craftsman for a wrench.

-Steve


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103010
From: williac@govonca.gov.on.ca (Chris Williams)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In <smN42B1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore) writes:

>tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:

>> In article <1993Apr15.024246.8076@Virginia.EDU> ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Vel
>> >This happened about a year ago on the Washington DC Beltway.
>> >Snot nosed drunken kids decided it would be really cool to
>> >throw huge rocks down on cars from an overpass.  Four or five
>> >cars were hit.  There were several serious injuries, and sadly
>> >a small girl sitting in the front seat of one of them was struck 
>> >in the head by one of the larger rocks.  I don't recall if she 
>> >made it, but I think she was comatose for a month or so and 
>> >doctors weren't holding out hope that she'd live.
>> >
>> >What the hell is happening to this great country of ours?  I
>> >can see boyhood pranks of peeing off of bridges and such, but
>> >20 pound rocks??!  Has our society really stooped this low??
>> >
>> >Erik velapold
>> 
>> Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason
>> is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is
>> "No Big Deal". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort 
>> children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised
>> when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the
>> message they hear is "Life is Cheap"!
>> 
>> AT

>Well people fortunatly or unfortunatly ,
>only the US is experiencing the devaluation of human life (among 
>developed nations).

>I am an American but I was raised in Europe, where the worst thing that 
>can happen to somebody is get his car broken into, or have his pocket
>picked by Slaves or Russian refugees.

>Of cource there will be some nutcases, but thats extremely rare.

>I.e. in Greece you can walk through any neighborhood at any time during
>the night without even worrying.

>In Germany , you can walk the sidewalks at 4.00 am and not even look 
>behind your back, at the sanitation crews that clean the streets to a 
>sparkling cleen.

>Whoever of you have been there you know what I am saying.

>I dont have any easy answers but if we as a nation do some selfcritisism
>we might get somewhere.

>Of course these postings sould be in soc.culture.US but if we reduce
>crime here it 'll mean less car insurance rates ,thus we could spend
>more money on modifing our cars. (Now my posting is rec.autos.tech 
>revelant).

>Vlasis  Theodore

>___________________
>Software Engineer
>IDB Mobile Communications.

>Sig under development ...

I remember this happening on the I-75 through Michigan and Ohio several
years back. A group of guys in an old beater would rear end a car,
usually out of state or Canadians. You stop and they smack you with a BB
bat. At least they didn't kill you for the sake of a car.
I think the cops put out decoys and this calmed down for a while.

Vlasis, are you safe walking through Germany if you are a refugee ? 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103011
From: sekell@bb1t.monsanto.com
Subject: Monthly Posting: Buick Grand National/Regal T-Type mailing list


Monthly posting regarding the Buick Grand National / Regal T-Type mailing list.

This list is for owners and other parties interested in the 82-87 Buick Grand
Nationals, Regal T-Types, GNXs, and other turbocharged Regals. Discussions 
include technical information and parts sources. Particular emphasis is given 
to performance enhancements and racing.
 
	To join, or ask, about the mailing list, contact:

		gnttype-request@srvsn2.monsanto.com

  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Scott Keller	+1 314 537 6317	    The Agricultural Group of Monsanto Company 
  sekell@bb1t.monsanto.com  	KA0WCH		packet: ka0wch@k0pfx.mo.usa.na
	Keeper of the Buick Grand National / Regal T-Type mailing list

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103012
From: wiggs@stsci.edu (Michael S. Wiggs)
Subject: Ignition kill


I just wanted to thank all the netters out there who either
posted a response or sent e-mail regarding my ignition kill
question. Now that I know how simple a procedure it is, it
looks like I'll be paying my local Pep Boys a visit this
weekend....

-Mik

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103013
From: jcyuhn@crchh574.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (James Yuhn)
Subject: Re: SHO clutch question (grinding noise?)

In article <5243@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
|> In article <C5H6F8.LDu@news.rich.bnr.ca> jcyuhn@crchh574.NoSubdomain.NoDomain
|> (James Yuhn) writes:
|> >   That's not the clutch you're hearing, its the gearbox. Early SHOs have
|> >   a lot of what is referred to as 'gear rollover' noise. You can generally
|> 
|> 	I have one of the first SHOs built, and _mine_ doesn't make
|> this noise.
|> 

   Geez wharfie, do you have to be so difficult? Mine was built in December
'88,
   which qualifies as pretty dang early, and it most certainly grinds away.
 
   Jim 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103014
From: wiggs@stsci.edu (Michael S. Wiggs)
Subject: Kubelwagen


The answer to your question is...sort of. Volkswagen had a
much less robust version of this army vehicle out in the
early '70's (or thereabouts). It was called the Volskwagen
Thing, and was, of course, a convertible. I havent seen
many around then or now. Good luck...
-Mik

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103015
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In <1993Apr15.040118.29272@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:

>In article <C5HHGM.1rM@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr13.215605.26252@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>>>
>>>How about those really ugly fake wheel compartments stuck onto the
>>>trunk or side (or both sides!) of some tacky luxury cars?
>>
>>Some of 'em aren't fake (if you're talking about the Continental kit,
>>named after the Lincoln Continental, the first car to sport one). I
>>personally would _love_ to have a '56 T-Bird with a Continental kit
>>(and the supercharged V-8 :-); that is one of the most beautiful
>>cars ever built, IMHO.

I'd go for a '39 Lincoln Continental if I could find one. Sad part is
that Edsel Ford designed it, and look at the abortion they named after
him. Ain't no justice.


>Okay, I'll admit it looks nice on the T-Bird (as a previous owner
>of 1967 and 1968 Thunderbirds, I'm biased anyway).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103016
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In <24485@drutx.ATT.COM> klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL) writes:

>In article <C5HHGM.1rM@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>| In article <1993Apr13.215605.26252@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>| >In article <1q4466INNb85@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>| >>
>| >>It's a big aftermarket business.  Almost no cars come from the factory with
>| >>vynal any more, and any fake "convertible" job _definitely_ came from some
>| >>aftermarket place.  What amazes me is how much people are willing to pay for
>| >>bad taste
>| >
>| >How about those really ugly fake wheel compartments stuck onto the
>| >trunk or side (or both sides!) of some tacky luxury cars?
>| 
>| Some of 'em aren't fake (if you're talking about the Continental kit,
>| named after the Lincoln Continental, the first car to sport one). I
>| personally would _love_ to have a '56 T-Bird with a Continental kit
>| (and the supercharged V-8 :-); that is one of the most beautiful
>| cars ever built, IMHO.
>| 
>| 				James
>| 

>The Continental may have been the first "modern era" auto to mount the
>spare on the rear of the car but it was hardly the first car to sport one.
>Various mounting techniques for rear mounting the spare were quite common
>in early automobiles, both US and Foreign.
>--
Right. In the thirties both Buick and Packard had two spares mounted in
wells in the front fenders. Of course that was back when the front
fenders were long enough to provide room. There were a couple of other
marques that did this as well, but memory fades.

>Ken Franklin 	They say there's a heaven for people who wait
>AMA     	And some say it's better but I say it ain't
>GWRRA           I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
>DoD #0126       The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103017
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In <C5HI0B.26C@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:

>In article <1993Apr13.220105.26409@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>>In article <93Apr08.202003.27851@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>>>As a long time motorcyclist, I have never understood what
>>>posessed auto builders to put delicate controls, which must
>>>be used with skill and finesse, like clutches and brakes,
>>>on the floor.
>>>
>>>Why not hand control? It's much much easier.
>>
>>In the early days, neither of these functions had power-assist, so
>>only legs had enough strength to activate them.  Since then, it's
>>been traditional and people would have a hard time getting
>>used to anything else.  

>Well, where, exactly, would you put a hand clutch and brake? On
>a motorcycle, it's easy; the handlebars have a very limited
>range of turning. Steering wheels, on the other hand, turn around
>and around and around...which is fine for electrical relays (like
>your cruise control and airbag)--but how many of you want to
>lose your clutch and/or brake due to a short circuit?

Shades of the Edsel! They had pushbuttons in the steering wheel hub
that controlled the auto tranny. It was very disconcerting to shift
into reverse when turning a corner and the wires shorted.

>There are workarounds, but there's really no reason to use hand
>power on a car's clutch or brakes, and lightening them to the
>point that they are "finesse" controls suitable for hand use
>would increse the mechanical complexity substantially (look at
>power brakes and non-power brakes for an example).

>>I saw an experimental car that had a joystick instead of a steering
>>wheel...

>That's about useless, IMHO. 

>>>Another automotive oddity is separate keys for trunks, doors, and
>>>ignitions. Why on earth would you want this?
>>
>>I know *I* don't.

>I want a separate trunk key for security reasons; it gives me a totally
>separate, lockable container. For door and ignition....ehhh, the same key's
>OK, I guess.

>				James

>James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
>Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
>DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
>		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
>   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
>	and all he's ever gonna have." 
>			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103018
From: SteveWall@aol.com (Steve Wall)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr15.173851.25846@convex.com>, tobias@convex.com (Allen
Tobias) wrote:
> 
> 
> Society, as we have known it, it coming apart at the seams! The basic reason
> is that human life has been devalued to the point were killing someone is
> "No Big Deal". Kid's see hundreds on murderous acts on TV, we can abort 
> children on demand, and kill the sick and old at will. So why be surprised
> when some kids drop 20 lbs rocks and kill people. They don't care because the
> message they hear is "Life is Cheap"!
> 
I think this is getting a little overheated.  Highway robbers have been a
part of life since the Middle Ages at least.  It's human nature to look
at history through rose colored glasses, but random acts of violence have
been a ceaseless part of our heritage.  Overall, life is better now than it
ever was then.  It's just that random individual acts of violence have
never
been historically significant, and record keeping in the past was never
good
enough to retain them all.  

Steve Wall

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103019
From: tjz6624@zeus.tamu.edu (ZINGALE, THOMAS J)
Subject: Re: 86 chevy sprint

In article <wfnMBJG00WBOE3L2c0@andrew.cmu.edu>, Srinagesh Gavirneni <sg48+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes...
>I have a 86 chevy sprint with a/c and 4doors. It's odometer turned 90k
>and the sensor light started blinking. I went to the dealer and he said
>it was a maintenance light saying I need to change the Oxygen sensor. He
>said, It is to be changed every 30k, but since I bought the car when it
>had 77k, I don't know if the same thing happened at 30k and 60k.  He
>quoted $198 for the part and $50 to install it. The part cost $30
>outside, but the mechanic I went to could not fix it saying the sensor
>is placed too deep in the engine parts. He suggested I wait till it
>malfunctions before I do anything.  If anyone out there owns a chevy
>sprint, I want to know how they got their Oxygen sensors changed. Also,
>did you face any problem with fixing it without the dealer's help. Also,
>what are the results of the oxygen sensor malfunction. 
>  Any help would be greatly apprecisted
>   Thanks

>      Nagesh
I have owned my Sprint from the beginning and that sensor light comes on every
30K to let you know it's time for a check up.  When that light goes on, I just
take it to the delaer tell them "It's that time" and they work on it for 4 hou
and you pay $5 for parts and $100 for labor. (Ahh...what they get for labor)
I currently have about 95K on my Sprint and of all the times I took it in for
service, I never say on the payment sheet anything about the replacement of the
Oxygen sensor.  What the heck is an Oxygen sensor?  As far an I know of, I have
never had that thing replaced in my car and the car is purring like a kitten.
Now, I don't have a/c (Mother Nature does that for me :-) ) and that might have
something to do with it, but I still never heard of an Oxygen sensor.  The only
MAJOR service job I have had on my car (besides getting the tires replaced
if you want to call that a service job) was getting the Rotor, Distributor and
Gasket replaced.  And that was all done within the past 2 months.  

What I do at 30K is have a good tune-up, let them replace what ever they need
to, pay the bill (about $125) and go home and don't worry about the car for
another 30K.  Oh, I just remembered something.  If that little sensor light
bothers you, in the fuse box right below the turn-signal lever up against
the dash, there is a swith on the right side.  Flip that switch and the light
will go off.  I do that so that little light won't annoy me.  If you can't
find it, look it up in the car manuel.  I hope that I have helped a little
and good luck with the _Oxygen sensor_?

				- Thomas -

******************************************************************************
*  E-Mail Address: 		  *  "Give me an an army of West Point,      *
*	TJZ6624@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU	  *   graduates and I'll win a battle...     *
*				  *   Give me a handful of Texas Aggies,     *
*  "Creator of MOT POWER!"	  *   and I'll win a war."                   *
*				  *	  - Gen. George S. Patton            *
******************************************************************************



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103021
From: jimiii@nimbus.com (Jim Warford)
Subject: Re: electronic odometers (was: Used BMW Question ..... ???)

In article <13269@news.duke.edu> klg@mookie.mc.duke.edu (Kim Greer) writes:
>
>  I was wondering if anyone can shed any light on just how it is that these
>electronic odometers remember the total elapsed mileage?  What kind of
>memory is stable/reliable enough, non-volatile enough and independent enough
>(of outside battery power) to last say, 10 years or more, in the life of a
>vehicle?  I'm amazed that anything like this could be expected to work for
>this length of time (especially in light of all the gizmos I work with that
>are doing good to work for 2 months without breaking down somehow).
>
MK48T02 from thomsom.  It has a timekeeper (clock) and 512 bytes of NVRAM which
has a lithium battery backup.  The battery has a life of ~10 years of poweroff
operation.  Installed in a car it could be left powered on continuously and not
draw much current.  The battery would only be used when your auto battery was
dead or had been removed.

>Side question:  how about the legal ramifications of selling a used car with
>a replaced odometer that starts over at 0 miles, after say 100/200/300K
>actual miles.  Looks like fraud would be fairly easy - for the price of a
>new odometer, you can say it has however many miles you want to tell the
>buyer it has.

In California they have a line on the transfer of ownership form which states
that the odometer mileage is correct.  If incorrect you are required to 
fill in what you know (or guesstimate) to be the correct mileage.  If you
lie on this form and are caught you can be prosecuted and the buyer can
sue you for the value of the mileage differential.
-- 
Faster Horses
Younger Women
Older Whiskey
More Money!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103022
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: RE Aftermarket A/C units

>Les Bartel's comments:
>>>>Sorry I can't help you with your question, but I do have a comment to
>>make concerning aftermarket A/C units.  I have a Frost-King or Frost-Temp
>>(forget which) aftermarket unit on my Cavalier, and am quite unhappy with
>>it.  The fan is noisy, and doesn't put out much air.  I will never have
>>an aftermarket A/C installed in any of my vehicles again.  I just can't
>>trust the quality and performance after this experience.
>> - les
>
>Let me add my .02 in. I had a A/C installed by the Ford garage and it did not
>work as well as the A/C that was installed by the factory in pickups 
>identical to mine. I have talked to other people that have had the same
>result. Don't know if this is just a probable with Ford or what??
>
>	Ernie Smith

i agree, *never* have the dealer add anything to your car.  if you want a/c
make sure it is factory installed(honda's maybe excluded, many can't be 
bought with a/c installed at the factory, but i think, maybe, they actually
use all the needed parts for a true factory install when they put one in...as
in bigger radiator etc...or are designed properly for this in the 1st place),
anyway, my point is the dealer installed a/c won't be anywhere near as good
as factory *and* the service bums will mess up your car when installing it...
scratches, screwdriver holes in seats...parts not reinstalled correctly or 
with all the screws etc.  i know a guy who has been service manager at a gm
dealer for 18 years...he said never have a dealer add anything to your car...
except, maybe, floormats...



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103023
From: ciarlett@mizar.usc.edu (Joni Ciarletta)
Subject: Master Cylinder


Thanks to everyone who responded to my Honda Accord break question.
It does seem that the master cylinder is bad. I will have my
mechanic double check and be sure it isn't something simpler
and cheaper first, but from your responses it sounds like it
is very likely to be the master cylinder.

Thanks everyone!!

Joni

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103024
From: davec@ECE.Concordia.CA (Dave Chu)
Subject: WANTED: OPINIONS ON 75 MG 

I was wondering if anyone out in net-land have any opinions on MGs
in general.  I know they are not the most reliable cars around but
summer is approaching and they are convertibles `8^).  I'm interested
in a 75 MG but any opinions on MGs would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Dave 
                                          |\ |     | |                       
___________________________/\  /\  /\_____| \|_____| |_____   ___  ___   ___
  Dave Kai-Chui Chu          \/  \/       | /|     | |       |    |     |
  Dept. of Elec. & Comp. Eng.             |/ |     | |       |--  |     |--
  Concordia University                  Voice:(514)848-3115  |___ |___  |___
  1455 de Maisonneuve W. H915           Fax:  (514)848-2802
  Montreal, Quebec, Canada H3G 1M8      Email:davec@ece.concordia.ca
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103025
From: tgardner@athena.mit.edu (Timothy J Gardner)
Subject: Re: another Taurus SHO question

In article <1993Apr14.064702.26925@reed.edu> rseymour@reed.edu writes:

>The Taurus SHO (for those who can get it straight, it is S-H-O as in Super 
>High Output, not SHO as in show) has a Yamaha 3.0L DOHC (24 valves) SHO V-6. 

Having spoken to technical staff from Ford many times, I can assure you that 
internally at Ford this car is always called the Taurus "Show" or just  
"the Show".  As in long "o" sound.  I still refer to it as the "S-H-O",
however, because it sounds better to me. I assume many purist fans and owners 
prefer using the Ford lingo.  

Tim Gardner


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103026
From: reid@ucs.indiana.edu (Frank Reid)
Subject: Re: The Kuebelwagen??!!          

In article <C5K5Co.F09@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:
>	Sorry for the mis-spelling, but I forgot how to spell it after 
>my series of exams and NO-on hand reference here.
>
>	Is it still possible to get those cute WWII VW Jeep-wanna-be's?
>A replica would be great I think.  
>
>							-TKH '93

The VW "Thing" Kubelwagen lookalike is still manufactured in Mexico and 
possibly South America.  Good luck importing one--  They probably don't meet 
US safety and pollution requirements.  There are mechanics and junkyards 
which specialize in VW; they might be helpful for finding a "Thing" unless 
the WWII re-enacters have grabbed them all.

The WWII Kubelwagen was the German equivalent of the Jeep, but was not 4-
wheel drive.  One is on display at the Patton Museum at Fort Knox, Kentucky, 
also the rare "Schwimwagen" (sp?) amphibious version, in full-scale dioramas.
Highly recommended!

--

Frank     reid@ucs.indiana.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103027
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <1993Apr15.222600.11690@research.nj.nec.com>  
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes:
>  ...
> 	Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for
> R12.  You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning  
Society
> (MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per
> retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash  
those
> R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very  
shaky
> technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst).
>  ...

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong because I know that the R-12 substitutes  
exist, but this sounds a lot like the 200mpg carbs that the oil companies  
keep us all from getting.

Mark


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103028
From: mgqlu@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Max Lu)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon


It is actually simple in principle. Porous adsorbents like zeolite and
activated carbon can adsorb gases evaporated from the adsorbate (water
or methanol, etc.) giving the cooling effect.  Upon being heated, the 
gas-saturated adsorbent bed will give off the gases which are then to be
condensed.  This forms the adsorption refrigeration cycle.  The only problem
is that the COP is very low (0.2 -0.6).  

Max

-- 
Max G Q Lu, PhD 				|  Internet: mgqlu@ntu.ac.sg
Division of Thermal Enginerring			|  Bitnet: mgqlu@ntuvax.bitnet
School of MPE, Nanyang Technological University |  Phone: (65) 7994818
Nanyang Avenue, Singapore 2263			|  Fax:   (65) 7911859

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103029
From: tmspence@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas morris spencer)
Subject: Are there any Honda groups?



Are there any Honda groups out there?  Especially ones that deal with
Preludes?

Tom Spencer

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103030
From: jwg@SEDV1.acd4.acd.com (jwg)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <C5HqJ0.57@unix.amherst.edu>, bhtulin@unix.amherst.edu (Barak H. Tulin) gives forth:
>I just started reading this thread today, so forgive me if it has already been
>mentioned.  But...what was the deal with Renault's putting the horn on the
>left-hand turn-signal stalk?  It was a button on the end, where the washer
>button would be on the wiper/washer stalk.  Could the Frenchies not figure
>out the wiring through the steering wheel, or what?

Had an '83 Alliance for a long time.  It was a comfortable but sluggish
car.  I got very used to the horn on the stalk, after a couple months worth
of getting used to it.  After I bought my next car, a Chevy, it took me
for-EVER to get used to the horn on the steering wheel again!

jim grey
jwg@acd4.acd.com

Up the Irons!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103031
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)


In a previous article, crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Christian Huebner) says:

>brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:
>
>>I think he's talking about a different form of rush. Evidently, it's fun to be
>>terrified. But hey, if you want that kind of rush, try bobsledding. You may
>>only get up to 80 or so, but it makes 130 in a car feel like a stroll in the
>>park.
>
>Why should a good driver be terrified at 130mph? The only thing I fear
>going at 130 are drivers, who switch to the left lane without using
>either rear-view-mirror or flashers. Doing 130 to 150 ain't a rush
>for me, but it's fun and I get where I want to go much faster.
>
>But in one point You are quite right. If You are terrified at 130 You
>should better not drive that fast, or You'll be a hazard to others.
>
>BTW, before You flame me, read my E-Mail address. I know what I'm 
>talking about, as I live in Germany.
>
>>- BK
>
>Chris    crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de

not a flame, just a point:  I'd be scared at 130 here, not because i feel
_I_  or my car couldn't handle it, but because of exactly what you said:
drivers who are STUPID.  Like the ones who are doing 130 also, and so
they pull in right behind you at maybe 1-2 car lengths....oh yeah, real
smart...  This scares me in cities at 50.  When i can't see enough of
the car to make it recognizable, they are following TOO CLOSE.  And 
when i see them doing this AND reading a newspaper.....*sigh*...this
is why America has 55-65 speed limits: our drivers are TOO DUMB to realise
that reading the paper should be done at breakfast, or work, not in their
car.  

my thoughts..
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103032
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <1993Apr15.234508.20032@slcs.slb.com>  
dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>   ...(relates an experience similar to mine) ...
> Then comes the part I wish I could have videotaped.  As we go out
> the front door, the sales manager SHOUTS across the entire showroom,
> customers and all, "Go ahead!  You DESERVE to buy a Nissan!"
> So my friend bought a Sentra.
> ...

This kind of behavior is what I was shocked by in my 'experience'. For  
crying out loud, how do these turkeys think they can talk to customers  
this way and still stay in business? Again, I don't expect sales people to  
bow, scrape, and grovel in my presence but I sure don't expect to be  
abused either. I was very surprised by the way the sales people talked to  
me and in other 'negotiating' sessions I overheard in neighboring sales  
cubicles. Evidently, their success rate is high enough that they continue  
to do business this way. There must be a lot of people out there who are  
easy to intimidate.

On the other hand, I'm not sure about the 'one price, no haggling'  
approach that Saturn and other are starting to use. I guess if their fixed  
price is fair it's OK. Maybe the best approach is to do your homework  
before you go in. Find out the invoice prices of the car, add a reasonable  
profit for the dealer ($200-$300??), offer them that price and stick to  
it. If they get abusive, just leave. Then, don't let them try to screw you  
after the deal is agreed on.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103033
From: bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

In article <1993Apr14.140642.19875@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:
>
>Well, I guess I know for sure what I meant, and it is this:  I don't know where
>you drive, but around here freeways are often clogged solid with large packs
>of semis, trucks, and cars of all descriptions.  When I close on one of these
>rolling clusterf***s on the highway, I have no desire to add my vehicle to this
>rolling accident looking for a place to happen. If there were any way to pass it
>I WOULD BE PASSING MYSELF, however I can't.      As I posted before, all it
>takes is a blown tire, or some moron tramping on the brakes to turn this pack 
>into a cloud of shredded metal, flying glass, and burning vehicles.   I want to
>maintain enough free space between myself and this mess to at least have a
>minimal chance to avoid a mass crash. That means maintaining a clear space 
>between me and it.
>However, there is no end of shortdriving morons who are dying to pass so they
>can add themselves and their car to the bodycount.  That wouldn't bother me so
>much except that after letting enough of these morons pass me and glue themselves
>to the pack ahead, my interval is filled up. Trying to back off further does not 
>work because the road behind me has filled up, trapping my car right into an ever
>increasing pack.  Now, if there was any slight possibility that there was a lane
>open ahead, I'd be glad to move over. But, there usually is no way in hell that
>anybody is going anywhere. So, I block the would-be passers. Not only for my own
>good , but theirs as well even though they are often too stupid to realize it.
>

Just an comment:  I don't like it when people decide what's good for me...
If you think you're going to decide anything for me, you'd better be 
carrying a badge and a gun.  Who made you capable of determining if there
is "no way in hell that anybody is going anywhere"?  Why do you find 
it necessary to add to the problem instead of just minding your own 
business?  If someone is minding their own business, I will give them
all the room they want, and I'll try to make things easy for them, even
letting them in in front of me if they ask politely (with a directional).
On the other hand, if someone like you decides they want to block me and
be a general asshole, you can bet your ass that I'll make life as 
miserable as possible for you, as long as it doesn't affect anyone else
who's minding their own business.  
They have a phrase to describe someone like you:
Self Appointed Traffic Police.
Just mind your own business and stay in the right lane where you belong.

>As a rule of philosophy, I don't feel particularly sorry when somebody gets 
>offed by his own stupidity, but It does worry me when some idiot is in a position
>to cash in my chips, too.
>
>                                                           H.H. Mayo


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ___          
       / _ \                 '85 Mustang GT                        Bob Pitas
      /    /USH              14.13 @ 99.8                      bpita@ctp.com
     / /| \                  Up at NED, Epping, NH           (Cambridge, MA)

                           "" - Geddy Lee (in YYZ)
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103034
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <1993Apr15.222254.6651@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grays
on Walker) writes:
>Why crawl under the car at all? I have a machine I got for my boat that
>pulls the oil out under suction through the dip stick tube. It does an
>excellent job and by moving the suction tube around, you can get more
>old oil out than by using the drain plug. I think I paid $25 at E&B Marine.
>The oil goes into a steel 3 gal can - wait until it cools and decant into
>your favorite device. I use soft drink bottles. Easy to take them down to
>the local oil recycle center.


Yeah I suppose you could do that.  But then you don't get the broken knuckles,
the rust in your eyes, the oil bath, and the burns from the exhaust.

I mean come on!...

Steve

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103035
From: bobml@mxmsd.msd.measurex.com (Bob LaGesse)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.193712.25996@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:
> In article <1993Apr15.020356.28944@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
> >I take the electrodes of the Amp/Ohm/Volt meter whatever and connect one
> >to each earlobe.  Then, symmetrically insert my fingers in each of the
> >spark plug boots. No cheating guys!  both hands must be used!
> 
> I have just a couple of questions about this technique.
> 
> First, what firing order should I use?  Do I start with my pointer
> finger or my pinky?  Left hand or right?
> 
> And secondly, I have a 12cyl and there are two cylinders unaccounted
> for.  Any suggestions?
> 
> /andy
> 
 
How about your two big toes?  And while you're at it, why bother with removing
the drain plug when you could remove the dipstick instead and suck it out from
there with your mouth and then spit it out?

-- 
Domain: bobml@msd.measurex.com    Bob LaGesse, Senior Software Engineer
  UUCP: ...!uunet!mxmsd!bobml     Measurex/Management Systems Division
 Voice: (513) 825-3931 X303       1280 Kemper Meadow Drive
   Fax: (513) 825-5393            Cincinnati, Ohio 45240, USA

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103036
From: kastle@bernoulli.WPI.EDU (Jacques W Brouillette)
Subject: Re: ARCTIC WHEELS AUTO SHOW

-- 
 : I want only two things from this world, a 58 Plymouth and a small  : 
 : OPEC nation with which to fuel it.  This would be a good and just  :
 : thing.  Car Smashers can just go home and sulk.                    :
 :        Jacques Brouillette ---  Manufacturing Engineering          :

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103037
From: brian@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Brian Donnell)
Subject: Re: Dealer cheated me with wrong odometer reading. Need help!

I don't know about where you are, but here in California false
representation
of odometer readings is a criminal felony. If you can substantiate this,
you need to report that dealer to the local authorities. You should consult
with a lawyer to tell you what civil action you can take as well. Keep in
mind that you will have to prove that the dealer was aware of the change in
the dashboard.

Brian Donnell

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103038
From: mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

In <C5t3B2.DG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:

>boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:

>>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>>>I am quite interested in it.
>>>>Thanks!
>>>>Darren Gibbons
>>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>>>	
>>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????

>>Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
>>chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
>>be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.

>>Craig

>	I think the Manta is the European name for the "GT."  I'm pretty sure
>that the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans.  I think the
>GT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta.  
>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Bzzt.
The manta was a two-door sedan in the US.
It had a 1900 engine.
Was sometimes referred to as an Opel 1900.
Manta's are also ve hot and fun cars too.



















-- 
/-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-\
| |\/|  __   -=> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu <=- (mliggett@iugold.bitnet  |
* |  |/\||   'junk' collector, toys R us kid, antiauthoritarian, and fan of   *
| frogs, iguanas, and other herps.					      |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103039
From: awelker@watarts.uwaterloo.ca (a welker)
Subject: Aftermarket exhausts for BMW 320i

I am in the process of looking for a half decent aftermarket sport exhaust
for my 1981 BMW 320i. So far, I have found a Pacesetter exhaust for $219
and an Ansa exhaust for $190 (Canadian funds). I was wondering if anyone
could tell me anyhting about either of these exhausts or any other possible
exhausts that I may be interested in. My main priorities are a decent horse
power increase (5-30%) and a nice low note to go along with that added power.
I was also thinking of looking into both Remus and Leistritz exhausts.Has 
anyone got anything to say about these? I am mainly looking for the muffler
only but if anyone can find a good deal on a whole kit I would be willing to
go after that. I also would like to know how much these would cost me in the 
States.Please mail me back if you have any information.

Mike Welker


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103040
From: dduff@col.hp.com (Dave Duff)
Subject: Re: Waxing a new car

I just had my 41 Chrysler painted. I was told to refrain from waxing it and
to leave it out in the sun!! Supposedly this let's the volatiles escape from
the paint over a month or so (I can smell it 15 feet away on a hot day) and
lets any slight irregularites in the surface flow out, as the paint remains
a little soft for a while.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103041
From: jcorry@erasure_sl.cc.emory.edu (Jeremy Corry)
Subject: MBenz 300 series, VW Passat

--
My boss is interested in a new 300 series Mercedes Benz wagon.
Does anyone have any testimonial evidence and/or strong opinions
on this car (or line)?

Particularly, I would like to hear about power (manual t. only)
reliability, feel, and any unusually good or bad features of the
line.

She currently drives a VW Passat, and is being plagued by its
electrical problems.  The dealer claims there is nothing wrong,
even though the doors have a habit of locking and unlocking them-
selves while you are driving down the road.  The automatic shoulder
restraints also like to move back and forth as you move along.
She does not have the new, larger engine and is quite
dissatisfied with its lack of power.

The MB wagon would have to have more power and no peculiar problems
such as the Passat's electrical system.  She is also considering
a Saab 9000 (add some letters).  Any comparisons between the 9000
line and the Mercedes would be helpful.

Price is not an impediment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy J. Corry                    | Churchill claimed the traditions  
jcorry@erasure_sl.cc.emory.edu     | of the navy are rum, mutiny, and
                          __       | sodomy.
                          \/                                             
     My opinions are my own, but I probably got them from someone else. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103042
From: <SYST8145@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca>
Subject: Van step... Van Accessory Help


Hello Netters,

I would like to find out information about a device that is used on vans and
trucks. This device is a step that hooks onto the tire and folds up for
storage. I've seen this device on TNN's Shady Tree Mechanic. I would like to
know if it is a good product and I would also like the price and address
of where I can purchase this product.

Thanks,

George Chan
Email: syst8145@ryevm.ryerson.ca

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103043
From: aep@world.std.com (Andrew E Page)
Subject: Re: Importing Volvo?


   There was an article in Business week not more the 4 weeks ago
on this very subject.  IN fact the Volvo 850 was one of the cars
they laid out an example for.  

-- 
Andrew E. Page   (Warrior Poet) |   Decision and Effort The Archer and Arrow
Mac Consultant                  |     The difference between what we are
Macintosh and DSP Technology    |           and what we want to be.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103044
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <1qehi6$ork@armory.centerline.com>, jimf@centerline.com (Jim 
Frost) writes:
> Ok, I'll give you a few reasons:
> 
> 1. Neither car was designed to turn at those speeds.
> 2. Neither car was designed to stop quickly from those speeds.
> 3. Safety mechanisms were not designed for impacts at those speeds.
> 4. An uncontrolled environment leads to unpredictable circumstances
>    where you might need to turn or stop with no notice.


Do you, by any chance own an SHO or have access to one, such that you
would have any idea what it is designed for or how it handles?

Just wondering...


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com or 74616.2237@compuserve.com
SHO  GOZE

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103045
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <1r1vofINN871@usenet.pa.dec.com> tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!) writes:
>	Are there any MR2 owners or motor-head gurus out there, that know why
>my MR2's engine sounds noisy? The MR2's engine is noisy at the best of times, 
>but not even a nice nose - it's one of those very ugly noises. 

assuming yours is a non turbo MR2, the gruffness is characteristic of
a large inline 4 that doesn't have balance shafts.  i guess toyota
didn't care about "little" details like that when they can brag about
the mid engine configuration and the flashy styling.

myself, i automatically cross out any car from consideration (or
recommendation) which has an inline 4 larger than 2 liters and no
balance shafts..  it is a good rule of thumb to keep in mind if you
ever want a halfway decent engine.  

if the noise really bugs you, there is nothing else that you can do
except to sell it and get a V6.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103046
From: tomm@hank.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5JoIt.E31@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> neil@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Neil Williams) writes:
>As long as we're on the subject... Several years ago myself and two others
>were riding in the front of a Toyota pickup heading south on Interstate 5
>north of Seattle, WA. Someone threw a rock of an overpass and hit our
>windshield. Not by accident I'm sure, it was impossible to get up to the
>overpass quickly to see who did it. We figured it was kids, reported it and
>left.
>A couple of years ago it happend again and killed a guy at my company. He was
>in his mid-fourties and left behind a wife and children. Turned out there was
>a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old
>that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do?

Execute the juvi on the grounds of the reformatory, required attendendence
by the rest of the inmates, as soon as possible after the incident and a
quick sure trial.  I am quite serious.  Cause and effect.  Nothing else
will ever make a dent.

>I don't think I'll over forget this story.
>Neil Williams, Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA.

Me neither.


-- 
Tom Mackey          (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.ca.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services               ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,       P.O. Box 24346,       Seattle, WA       98124-0346

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103047
From: tomm@hank.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <NEILSON.93Apr15135919@seoul.mpr.ca> neilson@seoul.mpr.ca (Robert Neilson) writes:
>[sorry for the 0 auto content, but ... ]
>
>> That is why low-abiding citizens should have the power to protect themselves
>> and their property using deadly force if necessary anywhere a threat is 
>> imminent.
>>
>> Steve Heracleous
>
>You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
>go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
>job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
>me - those kids are mean.

That is absolutely correct.  They have a streak of meanness that runs much
deeper and stronger than anything I ever experienced even during the height
of the 60's racial struggles.  I am absolutely convinced that there are
kids out there today that have no concept of right and wrong, but have the
human intelligence which is turning them into the greatest predators that
have ever walked the earth.  They will prevail unless the rest of humanity
decides that it is in their best interest to stand up against these feral
humans, and for individuals to start taking some responsibility for their
own protection.  In a state in which the individuals turn to the authorities
and police for protection, the police and government is soon composed of
the very feral humans that they originally sought protection from.

Gee, I guess you touched my hot button.  I'd better go cool off somewhere.


-- 
Tom Mackey          (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.ca.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services               ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,       P.O. Box 24346,       Seattle, WA       98124-0346

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103048
From: jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <1993Apr21.171811.25933@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>
>In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
>
>I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
>guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).


Geico has purchased radar guns in several states, I know they have done
it here in CT.

I have also heard horror stories about people that have been insured by Geico
for years and then had 1 accident and were immediately dropped.  And once
you've been dropped by any insruance company you become labled a high
risk, and end up forking out 3 or 4 times what you should be for insurance.

My suggestion, stay where you are, or shop around but STAY AWAY from Geico!

Jeff



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103049
From: barryf@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Barry Fowler)
Subject: Re: Impala SS going into production!

Does that mean that they're gonna bring back the Biscayne and Bel Air?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103050
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee) writes:
: significantly less than the value of many automobiles.  And for those who will
: argue that the animals out there stealing cars and everything else (not to
: mention committing COMPLETELY senseless acts of violence, such as rape) cannot
: be valued in terms of money because they are human beings, I submit that they
: are not human beings.  Jim Callison, I think, is on the right track.  And 

Absolutely. A scratch on my car bothers me more than the death of any
number of scum. All of you feel the same way---you just won't admit it.
When are people going to realise that the mere fact that a piece of flesh
moves and has the approximate shape of a human being does not in itself
mean that it has "rights"?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103051
From: nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan)
Subject: Dirty Diesels?

I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).

But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Vel Natarajan  nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL  --
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103052
From: jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:

> 
> In a previous article, dspalme@mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617) says:
> 
> >: nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) writes:
> >: > HELP!!!
> >: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
> >jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry) writes:
> >: FYI, just last week the PBS show Motor Week gave the results of what they 
> >: thought were the best cars for '93.  In the convertible category, the 
>                                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >: Honda Civic del Sol achieved this honor.  
> >I own a del Sol and I must vouch for the interior.  I really looks snazzy wh
> >the top is off.  I looks a lot better in person than on the television.  (I 
> >that Motorweek as well.  Needless to say I was smiling a bit by the time it
> >was over ...)  :*)
> >
> >Watch out for that darned "convertible tan" tho...
> 
> 
> i simply must inquire, how can people honestly consider this car
> a "convertible"?  Does Porsche have a patent on the "targa" name?
> I mean, convertible to me means "top down", which the del Sol certainly
> does NOT do.  It has the center that lifts out.  This is what i would
> term a targa(unless Porsches was gonna sue me for doing that).  I know
> the rear window rolls down, but i still can hardly consider this car
> to be a convertible.
> 

Yes, however, with the top off and the rear window down this car is more 
like a convertible than a coupe.  Think of it as a convertible with an 
integrated roll-bar like addition.

jp

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103053
From: rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?

In article <1993Apr20.174246.14375@wam.umd.edu> lerxst@wam.umd.edu (where's my  
thing) writes:
> 
>  I was wondering if anyone out there could enlighten me on this car I saw
> the other day. It was a 2-door sports car, looked to be from the late 60s/
> early 70s. It was called a Bricklin. The doors were really small. In  
addition,
> the front bumper was separate from the rest of the body. This is 
> all I know. If anyone can tellme a model name, engine specs, years
> of production, where this car is made, history, or whatever info you
> have on this funky looking car, please e-mail.

Bricklins were manufactured in the 70s with engines from Ford. They are rather  
odd looking with the encased front bumper. There aren't a lot of them around,  
but Hemmings (Motor News) ususally has ten or so listed. Basically, they are a  
performance Ford with new styling slapped on top.

>    ---- brought to you by your neighborhood Lerxst ----

Rush fan?

--
Robert Seymour				rseymour@reed.edu
Physics and Philosophy, Reed College	(NeXTmail accepted)
Artificial Life Project			Reed College
Reed Solar Energy Project (SolTrain)	Portland, OR

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103054
From: ravi@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com (Ravi Puvvala)
Subject: $13,500 Mazda 626 DX (with Air, AM/FM) Good Deal?

Hi Netters
	I want to know if 13500 (w/o tax) is a good deal for 1993 Mazda 626 DX
How is the performance review so far on Mazda 626. Is it a good buy?
Please reply to me as I don't read this group often.

Thanks In advance
Ravi
--
Ravi Kiran Puvvala		| "The purpose of education is not merely, 
ravi@merlin.dev.cdx.mot.com	|  the assimilation of facts but blow all 
Motorola Codex, Boston  MA 	|  the money" - Ravi Puvvala
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103055
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

In article <C5t3B2.DG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>
>>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>>>I am quite interested in it.
>>>>Thanks!
>>>>Darren Gibbons
>>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>>>	
>>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????
>
>>Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
>>chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
>>be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.
>
>>Craig
>
>	I think the Manta is the European name for the "GT."  I'm pretty sure
Well the European Manta and US GT have entirely different bodies. There is
little or no chance that they are the same. The Manta went through several
generations as the coupe version of the Ascona and was OK in its time.

>that the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans.  I think the

Not true. The Kadett has been in and out of the US market over the years.
The LeMans (old Kadett) is only the latest version. 

Craig
>GT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta.  

Different Cars. One looks like a sports-car, the other is a coupe.

>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103056
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: $6700 for hail damage - a record?

In article <1993Apr20.203219.7724@pencom.com> stecz@pencom.com writes:
>In article <1993Apr19.235711.7285@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)  
>writes:
>> 
>> 
>> My 90 Integra was hit hard in the 3/25 hailstorm in Austin, TX. 
>> The insurance company cut me a check for $6600 ($100 deductible)
>> last week.  Is this a record? Anybody else had settlements from
>> the same hailstorm yet?
>> 
>> Craig
>
>
>Rumor has it that a guy at Dell Computer had his Miata totalled, so that would  
>be about $10k.

I guess it either had the top down, or the hail ripped through the top, as
you could not do $10k worth of hail damage to a Miata body. 

Craig
>
>
>--
>--
>  John Steczkowski                        stecz@pencom.com
>    The Constitution grants you the right to life, liberty, and the
>    *pursuit* of happiness.  It does not attempt to guarantee that
>    everyone *will* be happy.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103057
From: ae015@Freenet.carleton.ca (Steve Hui)
Subject: Re: New '94 Talon?????


I would also be interested in finding out about the '94 Talon,
and I suspect that many other people would be interested too,
so let's get some responses on the net.

The question again:
Does anyone have any info on the 1994 Eagle Talon / Mitsubishi
Eclipse / Plymouth Laser?

I know that the old Talon was based on the Mitsubishi Galant,
and that in Japan, a 240 hp twin-turbo V6 1994 Galant has been
released.

So anyway, any info on the '94 Talon would be appreciated.

Steve Hui

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103058
From: yongje@hardy.u.washington.edu (Yong Je Lim)
Subject: Dealer cheated me with wrong odometer reading. Need help!

Here is a story.  I bought a car about two weeks ago.  I finally can
get hold of the previous owner of the car and got all maintanence
history of the car.  In between '91 and '92, the instrument pannel 
of the car has been replaced and the odometer also has been reset
to zero.  Therefore, the true meter reading is the reading before
replacement plus current mileage.  That shows 35000 mile difference
comparing to the mileage on the odometer disclosure from.  The 
dealer never told me anything about that important story.

I hope that I can return the car with full refund.  Do u think this
is possible?  Does anyone have similar experiences?  Any comments
will be appreciated.  Thanks.

yongje@u.washington.edu 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103059
Subject: insurance question
From: <LIBEMC@BYUVM.BITNET>

I'm about to buy a new car and finance some of it.  Since I paid
cash for the last car I bought I did not have to worry about
whether or not I had a good amount of insurance on it because
of a bank loan.  I just put the amount that I wanted (not what
a bank would have wanted).  Friends are telling me that banks
require some kind of insurance on the car to protect it since it
is collateral on loans.  Is this true?  Can that insurance be
gotten as part of my other insurance?  I assume I don't have to
pay a dealer for extra insurance over my regular car insurance.
Am I correct?  I hear about accident/health type insurance at
the dealers and I am pretty sure these are just money makers
for them.  I just want to verify that I don't _have_ to buy
these at all.  Or any other types of extras.

What do I have to pay for?  Car, tax, license.  Anything else?

Ellen


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103060
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

boyle@cactus.org  writes:
> In article <1qv7mn$dql@menudo.uh.edu> thang@harebell.egr.uh.edu (Chin-Heng  Thang) writes:
> >	Recently, I saw an ad for the altima which says that it is the  
> >best seller for the past 6 months, is that true? 
> >
> 
> I too was puzzled by this obvious untruth. What I think is going on is that
> Nissan claims that the Altima is "the best selling new car namelplate in
> the US" (I think I have this near verbatim). Lee Iaccoca's statistics
> dept. would have been proud of that sentence. What they mean, I think, is
> that of all "totally new models", i.e. cars never sold before in any
> form, the Altima is the best seller, thereby eliminating Accord, Taurus
> etc. 
 THis is from the same people who make the claim that our minivan is outsellin
theirs.... implying that the Nissan Quest/ Murcury Villager are out-selling
the Chrysler mini-vans.... not only is this not true at all, but it was a stupid
claim to make... the commercial was part of the introduction campaign for the 
vans.  Kind of a bold statement to make when you haven't even sold one yet, eh?


And I thought Buick and Oldsmobile where bad.  Shame on you Nissan and 
Mercury!
> 
> Any other interpretations?
> 
> 
> Craig
> >	 Does anyone has anyhting regarding the # of cars sold for the  
> >past 6 months?
> >
> >
> >
> >tony
> 
> 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103061
From: rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen)
Subject: (w)rec.autos


There is just something disconcerting about the name of this group. :)


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103062
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

By the way, what do people think about the Opel CAlibra?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103063
From: hhd0@harvey.gte.com (Horace Dediu)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?

In article <nataraja.735341980@opal12>, nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan) writes:
|> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
|> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
|> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).
|> 
|> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
|> something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
|> diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
|> install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
|> of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
|> different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
|> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
|> gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...
|> 
|> -- 
|> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> -- Vel Natarajan  nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL  --
|> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This really bugs me.  The emissions of diesels are the cleanest of any vechicle,
but they are considered so polluting that they are banned in passenger cars
in California.  What a bunch of crap.  Diesel is the fuel of choice for 
enviromental benefit in Europe while here it's illegal for the same reason.

The particulates are nothing but carbon.  They are just an annoyance at worst.
Nothing beats the diesel cycle for efficiency and emissions, torque or engine
durability.  It's also cheaper.
-- 
Horace Dediu                                                  GTE Laboratories
(617) 466-4111                                                40 Sylvan Road
Internet: hdediu@gte.com                                      Waltham, MA 02254

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103064
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qqv7k$e5g@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>In a previous article, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) says:
>>In article <1qn4ev$3g2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>>>In a previous article, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) says:
>>>
>>>>	That shows how much you know about anything.  The brakes on the
>>>>SHO are very different - 9 inch (or 9.5? I forget) discs all around,
>>>>vented in front.  The normal Taurus setup is (smaller) discs front, 
>>>>drums rear.
>>>
>>>one i saw had vented rears too...it was on a lot.
>>>of course, the sales man was a fool..."titanium wheels"..yeah, right..
>>>then later told me they were "magnesium"..more believable, but still
>>>crap, since Al is so m uch cheaper, and just as good....
>>>
>>>i tend to agree, tho that this still doesn't take the SHO up to "standard"
>>>for running 130 on a regular basis.  The brakes should be bigger, like
>>>11" or so...take a look at the  ones on the Corrados.(where they have
>>>braking regulations).
>>
>>Well, let's see...my T-Bird SC has a computer-controlled adjustable
>>suspension, 4-wheel ABS disks (11" vented front, 10" (?) rear), 3-point
							^^^^
						Rears also vented

>>belts, sturdy passenger compartment, aerodynamics good enough for 
>>NASCAR without too much change, 210 hp/310 ft-lb supercharged 3.8l V6,
>>4-wheel independent suspension (plus limited-slip differential), with 
>>a top speed in excess of 130mph, and rides on V-rated tires (I have yet
>>to find 225/60-R16s in any other speed rating). 
>>
>>Is that "up to standard"? If not, why not?
>
>james, i really hate to do this, but try reading the damn posts!

Then you shouldn't've done it. Try answering the damn question.
I am well aware of the fact that there was no mention of the SC
in there.

>never was a t'bird mentioned.  The discussion was about SHO's and
>'stangs not being up to spec.  I do not know about t'birds.  I
>only know that the specs quoted for the SHO by previous poster sounded
>a little anemic for me to say that it was up to snuff.  This does not
>kn any way  disencourage* me from wishing to own one, nor does it make it
>a bad car.  It merely means that i think Ford could have added that extra
>bit of safety  and tossed in larger brakes, as the wheels are plenty large
>enough for them to fit (if memory serves right, which it may very well not)
>and the motor plenty powerful enough to need it.

Well, my point was that the SC and the SHO both have very similar
characteristics (front and rear disks (ABS on the SHO?), high output
V6, 4-wheel independent suspension, very good aerodynamics, 3-point
harness, fat rubber, and 130mph+ top speed). If one of them is 
up to standard (and I think the SC is), but the other isn't, then
why is that? No flamage, just curiousity.


				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103065
From: markg@sr.hp.com (Mark Goldsworthy)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

Spiros Triantafyllopoulos (c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com) wrote:
: But waiiiiiit, isn't Nissan officially registering the car as far as
: government paperwork goes, Nissan Stanza Altima, to avoid costly and
: lengthy paperwork? I read this on the net a while ago, and someone
: actually may have said there's a little Stanza logo on the Altima
: somewhere.

I just bought an Altima (and like it very much) and yes there is a
little Stanza logo ever so discretely placed on the trunk. The Altima is
emblazoned in big silver letters, but the itsy-bitsy Stanza is shunted
to the far left of the trunk lid. You can only see it if you get up
close to the car and know where to look. It is very inconspicuous.

In fact my first clue that this was a Stanza was that the owners manual
called the car a Nissan Stanza Altima.

Anybody know *why* Nissan did it this way?

Mark Goldsworthy



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103066
From: raman@translab.its.uci.edu (Balaji V. Ramanathan)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <C5uwoJ.Bt@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:
>In <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>
>
>>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>>have v engines.
>
>>V4 - I don't know of any.
>>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
Lexus es300, gs300, sc300, Infiniti J30, Dozens of others, including
common cars like the Toyota Camry (as an option).
>>V8 - Don't know of any.
>
>Mustang 5.0 (302)
>Camaros & Firebirds
>Some Mercedes'
>
Lexus ls400, sc400, Acura Legend, Infiniti Q45, Lincoln Mark VIII, some
cadillacs and other luxury autos.

V10 - Dodge viper (?)

>>V12 - Jaguar XJS
>
>
>> Please add to the list.
>
>
>> Thanks,
>> -S
>> ssave@ole.cdac.com
>-- 
>/-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-\
>| |\/|  __   -=> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu <=- (mliggett@iugold.bitnet  |
>* |  |/\||   'junk' collector, toys R us kid, antiauthoritarian, and fan of   *
>| frogs, iguanas, and other herps.					      |


--
----------------->8      Cut here for Signature!       8<---------------------
Balaji Ramanathan,                   | 
Institute of Transportation Studies, |         I don't believe in luck!
University of California, Irvine.    |              I RELY on it!!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103067
From: newman@cps.msu.edu (Timothy S Newman)
Subject: Domestic Content of US/Japan Joint Ventures


Does anyone know what the domestic content is of any of these:
Geo Prizm, Eagle Talon, Ford Probe

?

All are made in the US, but I have been told they contain mostly
foreign parts.  Please follow up directly to me, I'll post the
findings to the net if there is interest.

Thanks!
Tim Newman

newman@cps.msu.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103068
From: tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.


>Eliot is right about 2.2 liter engine in the second (and last) generation
>MR2's. But the original guy did not indicate the year of his MR2. If it's a
>first generation car (like my '85), it has 1.6 liter engine (or perhaps
>same engine with a supercharger, if it's '87 -'89).
>The sound he describes is common to any older Toyota engine I ever heard.
>I don't know the relevance of his observations about oil changes, my simply
>makes noise. Not all that annoying, mind you. But you hear it well when the
>engine is right behind your left ear :-)
>Mike.S

Sorry 'bout that - Mine is a '91 model non-turbo 2.0. (with ABS and revised
suspension (whatever revised means)). I'm in Australia, so we always seem to 
get the versions without extras which the Europeans and Americans get as 
standard.

My query is, - why does the noise get noticeably LOUDER about 2-3 months after
an oil change. I just find it a bit wierd that this happens. Is it the oil I'm
using (Mobil 1) or is it the engine (the 3S-GE version/model) ie. gets
noiser the older the oil is (I'm only guessing). 

Its not annoyingly distressing or anything, but just slightly puzzling.


Puzzled.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103069
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible


In a previous article, twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu (Tom Wetzel) says:

>In article <1r1tth$b9i@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Andrew A. Spencer,
>aas7@po.CWRU.Edu writes:
[well, actually, he didn't, but we'll pretend the real author of this
query has his name tacked in here....:-)]


>>>: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
>
>I was about to recommend you consider a targa top over a convertible but, 
>DREW made the point very well.  When my wife and I were in our 20s we
>did the convertible thing with Triumphs.  Now in our mid-40s, we still
>appreciate the open air but prefer targa types.  There is much less wind
>noise, objects/papers blowing around, foreign objects getting into the
>car and one still has almost all the advantages of the convertible.  
>
>Tom

while it's being mentioned, i personally prefer the moonroof/sunroof/t-top/
targa thing as well.  I simply don't like cloth tops, nor the extra insurance,
nor the S**** color matching alot of companies do.  If i chose a convertible,
it'd be:

a) Mazda RX7 II.  I just like the way they look.  It'd have to be in black,
with color matched black top(they look good!)

b) VW cabriolet.  They do a suberb job of matching colors too.  Also, last year
for them!  {***COLLECTOR'S ITEM****}

c) mustang GT droptop...they look ok too.

i know this doesn't help, but i thought i'd do it anyway...:-)

good luck to your wife.(and you :-)

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103070
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots


In a previous article, dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) says:

>In article <1993Apr21.100149.1501@rtsg.mot.com>, kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane) writes:
>|> As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
>|> here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....
>
>In many of our cities, there are traffic signals every 100 feet (unsynchronised,
>of course (well here in Ottawa anyway)) and the roads are so congested that 
>shifting manually is a real pain in the left foot.  Also, most Canadians are
>too stupid to learn how to shift manually (gee, I gotta co-ordinate my two
>feet on the clutch, brake _and_ accelerator, and I gotta steer, shift _and_
>operate the signals (optional) and radio with my two hands... duh... it 

[i agree wholeheartedly!!]

>can't be done).  Also, most North American made cars come with the automatic 
>as standard equipment, so why bother with a manual when the car can shift 
>for you for no addition money.

not sure about there in CA, but here in US, the manuals are quite often the
standard equipment.  Of course, FINDING a car with one might be hard, but
if you read the sticker on the window, there is usally an additional 2k or
so tacked on for that lousy  tranny.  So you actually ARE paying more, just
that it's sometimes hard to find one that is equipped "standard".  (this
applies to MOST cars, but not to the luxoyachts..eg caddilac, licolns, etc..)


DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103071
From: kennyc@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (kenneth.r.crudup)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com>
ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:

>I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>have V engines.

>V8 - Don't know of any.

Kidding, right? 

Corvette, several MBZ's and BMW's, Mustang GT, etc., etc. There's a lot of
them. You from a European site?

	-Kenny

-- 
Kenny Crudup, ATT BL, MV20-3-T-5-B, X3219.
kenny@mvuts.att.com



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103072
From: singer@ll.mit.edu (Matthew R. Singer)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?


--
In article <C5t3B2.DG@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
|>Newsgroups: rec.autos
|>Path: llpost!ll.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!wupost!howland.reston.ans.net!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!cka52397
|>From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
|>Subject: Re: Opel owners?
|>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 19:45:02 GMT+5:00
|>Message-ID: <C5t3B2.DG@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
|>References: <gibbonsa.735339907@sfu.ca> <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <1993Apr20.223410.10923@cactus.org>
|>Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
|>Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
|>Lines: 30
|>
|>boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
|>
|>>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
|>>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
|>>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
|>>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
|>>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
|>>>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
|>>>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
|>>>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
|>>>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
|>>>>I am quite interested in it.
|>>>>Thanks!
|>>>>Darren Gibbons
|>>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
|>>>	
|>>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????
|>
|>>Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
|>>chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
|>>be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.
|>
|>>Craig
|>
|>	I think the Manta is the European name for the "GT."  I'm pretty sure
|>that the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans.  I think the
|>GT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta.  
|>-- 
|>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
|>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********
|>

The GT was based on the Kadette chassis. It was built model years 1969-1973.
The Manta came out in the 1974 model year and was a 4 seat coupe.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew R. Singer                                    MIT Lincoln Laboratory
(617) 981-3771                                       244 Wood Street
singer@ll.mit.edu                                    Lexington, MA 02173
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103073
From: singer@ll.mit.edu (Matthew R. Singer)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?


--
In article <1993Apr20.231748.26273@convex.com>, maynard@convex.com (Mark Maynard) writes:
|>Newsgroups: rec.autos
|>Path: llpost!ll.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!bogus.sura.net!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!swrinde!dptspd!tamsun.tamu.edu!news.utdallas.edu!convex!convex!maynard
|>From: maynard@convex.com (Mark Maynard)
|>Subject: Re: Opel owners?
|>Message-ID: <1993Apr20.231748.26273@convex.com>
|>Sender: Mark Maynard	
|>Nntp-Posting-Host: trojan.convex.com
|>Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
|>References: <gibbonsa.735339907@sfu.ca> <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
|>Distribution: rec.autos
|>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 19:17:48 GMT+5:00
|>X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
|>              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
|>              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
|>Lines: 22
|>
|>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
|>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
|>>
|>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
|>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
|>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.
|>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
|>>	
|>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????
|>>	Chintan Amin
|>
|>
|>Sounds more like an Opel GT.  Neat cars, fun to drive.  Sold through
|>Buick from 196? through 1973 (if I remember correctly).  I believe it
|>was in '72 that there were some engine mods made such that parts
|>were not interchangeable with the older models.  Parts are thus much
|>harder to come by for the later models.  Parts in general are not
|>too difficult to find.  At one time JC Whitney carried some stuff
|>including a brand new (not remfg) long block.  Either a GT or a
|>Kharman Ghia (hmm that spelling looks hosed) will be my next project.
|>
|>Mark
|>

In 1972, they lowered the engine compression so that it would run on
regular gas (not to mention the addition of emission controls).  The '72 
also added pop-out rear quarter windows...

Alot of parts are available for the GT from C & R Small Cars in CT and
used from Bill Daley's Opel Parts in MA....


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew R. Singer                                    MIT Lincoln Laboratory
(617) 981-3771                                       244 Wood Street
singer@ll.mit.edu                                    Lexington, MA 02173
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103074
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.

I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103075
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?


In a previous article, marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) says:

>In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>>
>>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>>have v engines.
>>
>>V4 - I don't know of any.
>>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>>V8 - Don't know of any.
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>try the(DEEP breath) Mustang,Camaro,Optional on nearly every truck ever built,
> Corvettes, Caprices, BMW 740i, Caddie Eldorado, Fleetwood, Seville,
>Infiniti Q45,Jeep Grand Cherokee, Lexus Ls 400, Lexus SC 400,Lincon Mark VIII
>Town Car,M-B 400SEL, and the Mercury Grand Marquis to name a FEW!!!!
> 
>>V12 - Jaguar XJS
> 
>How about:
>V10 - Viper
>V16 - must be one somewhere.

Believe Bugatti's coming(has) out  one.  Something like 4 turbos
and mucho macho HP.  One cool price too, as i heard.  At any rate,
the point is, i'm pretty sure there is, indeed, one in production...
tho rather limited..

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103076
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Nissan Nomenclature (was Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted)


In a previous article, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) says:

>The best auto-shifters on the street (AND NOT THE TRACK) are those from 
>Porsche... they wont change if you floor the gas during a turn.... a few 
>years back a was in a 200SX auto (you guys call it a 240SX [without turbo])
>and was going round a corner.... I floored it and next thing I know I was 
>pointing backwards! The other drivers seemed quite amused ;-)
>
>						....Shaz....
>

You are sure that what you call a 200SX we call a 240?  Just curious..
We also have a nissan predacessor (sp) to the 240 called a 200, which
came in turbo and nonturbo.  But i don't think we've ever had a 240
turbo...just curious...(BTW, I'm in the US, if that matters..)

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103077
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:

>In <C5t3B2.DG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:

>>boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:

>>>In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>>>>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>>>>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>>>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>>>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>>>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>>>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>>>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>>>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>>>>I am quite interested in it.
>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>Darren Gibbons
>>>>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>>>>	
>>>>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????

>>>Sounds a lot more like an Opel GT to me. I'd guess that this is on the same
>>>chassis as the Kadett, rather than the bigger Manta - but I could easily
>>>be wrong.  I think the later Kadett's were sold here as Buick Opels.

>>>Craig

>>	I think the Manta is the European name for the "GT."  I'm pretty sure
>>that the only Kadett's sold here were/are the Pontiac LeMans.  I think the
>>GT is just an early '70s to mid '70s Manta.  
>>-- 
>>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

>Bzzt.
>The manta was a two-door sedan in the US.
>It had a 1900 engine.
>Was sometimes referred to as an Opel 1900.
>Manta's are also ve hot and fun cars too.

>| |\/|  __   -=> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu <=- (mliggett@iugold.bitnet  |
>* |  |/\||   'junk' collector, toys R us kid, antiauthoritarian, and fan of   *
>| frogs, iguanas, and other herps.					      |

	Funny, the Manta's over in Europe look surprisingly like the Opel
alluded to by the original poster.


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103078
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes:

>By the way, what do people think about the Opel CAlibra?

	I want one, and I don't want to move to Europe to buy one.  Please make
it the next Pontiac F-Car.  Of course I'll have to wait 'till 2003 to buy it...




-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103079
From: "nigel allen" <nigel.allen@canrem.com>
Subject: Alternative Fuel Vehicles


Here is a press release from the U.S. Department of Energy.

 Energy Secretary Hails President's Plan For Alternative Fuel
Vehicles
 To: National Desk, Environment and Energy Reporters
 Contact: Larry Hart of the U.S. Department of Energy, 202-586-5806

   WASHINGTON, April 21  -- Secretary of Energy
Hazel R. O'Leary today said President Clinton's Executive Order on
Alternative Fuels will make the federal government a "driving force
behind efforts to increase the availability of both alternative
fuel vehicles and fuel supplies."
   President Clinton signed the order today, which calls for
federal purchases of alternative fuel vehicles in numbers over the
next three years at least 50 percent higher than those called for
in the Energy Policy Act of 1992.
   President Clinton also announced that Texas Land Commissioner
Gary Mauro will head up the Federal Fleet Conversion Task Force to
advise O'Leary on implementation of the Executive Order.
   "I am delighted that I will be working with Gary Mauro to make
this happen," O'Leary said.  "As Land Commissioner, Gary Mauro has
helped make Texas a national leader in converting the state fleet
to alternative fuels, and has been a tireless proponent of natural
gas vehicles in speeches across the country."
   The task force is to issue a report within 90 days recommending
a plan and schedule of implementation.
   "The Department of Energy and all of us in government must lead
by example if the option of alternative fuels is going to become a
practical, affordable choice for fleet owners across the country,"
O'Leary said.  "Increased use of domestically-produced alternative
fuels means reducing pollution while creating jobs.  We believe
that energy efficiency, protecting the environment, and a healthy
economy are complimentary goals."
   O'Leary said that plans call for the Department of Energy to
coordinate the agencies' five-year purchase plans, help with
funding for extra purchase or conversion costs, and work with GSA
to encourage development of the fuel infrastructure needed to make
fleet conversions practical.
   Under the order, the Department of Energy will also be working
with states, local governments and industry to coordinate vehicle
purchases and encourage manufacturers and fuel suppliers to make
alternative fuel vehicles and alternative fuels more widely
available.
 -30-
--
Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario
416-629-7000/629-7044

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103080
From: rrg@rtp.fibercom.com (Rhonda Gaines)
Subject: '93 Hyundai Sonata...Opinions/Info Wanted


I'd like to hear stories on experiences with the Hyundai Sonata.  I
know Consumer Reports has trashed them but the people I know that
have them swear by them.  They also haven't had the problems with
them that Consumer Reports claims.  I haven't driven one yet.  I
have driven a '93 Hyundai Elantra (which Consumer Reports also
trashed) and was very impressed with it.  The local Hyundai
dealership ("no-haggle" policy) is offering an Elantra GLS w/ power
moonroof for $13163.  They also have a Sonata base, w/ Sunroof for
$13997.  I know my preference is for a Sonata GLS w/ sunroof and
4-spd automatic.  I'll decide which engine I prefer after test
driving both the 4-cyl and the V6.  The Sonata is also offering a
$1500 rebate.  Hmmm, that's another question.  Is the following
scenario the appropriate manner to handle "negotiation"?

1.  make offer
2.  subtract rebate from offer
3.  talk trade
4.  subtract trade from offer to get final price


-- 
Rhonda Gaines, Systems/Network Administrator | INTERNET: gaines@fibercom.com
FiberCom, Inc., P.O. Box 11966,              | UUCP: ...!uunet!fibercom!gaines
Roanoke, VA 24022-1966                       | FAX:   703-342-5961
PHONE: 703-342-6700 or 800-423-1183 x291     |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103081
From: grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Nissan Nomenclature (was Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted)

aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:



>You are sure that what you call a 200SX we call a 240?  Just curious..
>We also have a nissan predacessor (sp) to the 240 called a 200, which
>came in turbo and nonturbo.  But i don't think we've ever had a 240
>turbo...just curious...(BTW, I'm in the US, if that matters..)

>DREW 

What we currently know as the 240sx, is known elsewhere as a 200sx.


 
-- 
Graham E. Thomas                  *  blah blah blah blah blah  
Georgia Institute of Technology   *  blah blah blah blah blah     
Internet: grahamt@oit.gatech.edu  *  blah blah blah blah blah  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103082
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <1r3oe8$c93@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>nice theory.  too bad the MR2's never came with a four cylinder over 2.0
>liters.  More like 1.6.  Or did they? were the nonturbo MR2II's  2.2 or
>some such?

foot in mouth again, drew.  the first generation mr 2's were 1.6's which 
were very smooth.  i'd be real surprised if the original poster was talking
about a 1st generation car.  the second generation cars were 2.2 for the
non turbo and 2.0 for the turbo.  i drove the non turbo 2.2 and calling it
unpleasant is to be kind to it.. 

>I also understand that anyone using balancing shafts on four cylinders, must
>pay SAAB a royalty for using their patented design..like Porsche's 3.0 I4...

wrong and wrong.  mitsubishi owns the patent, which has since expired
which is why everybody with a shred of integrity is putting balance
shafts into their big 4's.. the notable exception is nissan.. and only
for the us market suckers.  i guess we need to write to C&D and start
telling them to publish graphs for engine vibration over rpm.  then
you'll see usenet discussions of the form: engine A has peak
vibrations 3 dB less than engine B, therefore engine A is better than
engine B.

1/2 :-)


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103083
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important?

i    of course car safety is important.. I for one used to think that these 
guys are going way OTT with their airtbags (sorry del button dont work) and 
side impact bars and crash zones and (the list goes on) just tpo make the 
car heavbier (and all its penalties) ... bur recently I had a little accident (on
my bike) and not as bad as John's ..... but after the accident - it made me 
realizer I should have worn a helmet (my mom always insistede I should... I was
more concerned about my hair style).....

A few days agi - I read a report in which the old Rea.. Rea shit - Renault 5
had an accident and its roof caved INWARDS and crushed the occupents heads...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103084
From: dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf)
Subject: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

Another user recently requested info about the Shadow/Sundance
cars, but I haven't seen any public responses.

What are people's experiences with these cars?

Daryl

             Daryl Biberdorf  N5GJM    d-biberdorf@tamu.edu
               + Sola Gratia + Sola Fide + Sola Scriptura

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103085
From: mart@csri.toronto.edu (Mart Molle)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

bobml@mxmsd.msd.measurex.com (Bob LaGesse) writes:

[Long silly discussion deleted...]

>                              And while you're at it, why bother with removing
>the drain plug when you could remove the dipstick instead and suck it out from
>there with your mouth and then spit it out?

This suggestion isn't as far-fetched as it sounds.  Years ago in another
time and place, I used to do oil changes in boats powered by automotive
engines.  In many cases, there was no way to get any sort of a tray under
the oil pan because it was boxed in by the bottom of the hull and various
floation chambers on each side.  And if you *did* get something there, you'd
spill all the oil out of it for sure trying to get it back out again.

So we used a small pump powered by an electric drill to suck the oil out
the dipstick hole.  There was a long/thin hose on the inlet side designed
to fit down the dipstick tube, and another, thicker/shorter hose on the
outlet side that you put into any convenient container.  I'm sure these
gadgets are still available from marine hardware suppliers if you want one.

Mart L. Molle
Computer Systems Research Institute
University of Toronto
Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4
(416)978-4928

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103086
From: johnson@spectra.com (boyd johnson)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5JGC4.AJJ@dove.nist.gov> keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys) writes:

This isn't anything new.  Back in 1985 I was driving under a high
overpass at night on I-805 in San Diego when I caught a glimpse of
someone on the overpass.  As I passed under a rock slammed against the
metal between the winshield and right front window.  My girlfriend was
in the seat next to it.  I called the police from the next exit, but I
doubt if they were found.

About five years ago in San Diego someone was put into a coma from a
brick being thrown through his sunroof as he was driving and
subsequently crashed.  I don't think he ever came out of the coma, and I
haven't heard anything about it for a couple years.

>I know that this isn't the group for it, but since you brought it up,
>does anyone have any idea why they haven't "bombed" the Waco cult?    

Probably because there are many children there.  Also the minor fact
that other than defending themselves from 100 some people attacking them
they haven't threatened or attacked anyone outside the compound in
years.  Being a promiscuous religious nut does not constitute grounds
for a mass murder of Koresh and his followers.

Sorry for posting this to this group, but I thought the previous post
needed a rebuttal.  If you follow-up to this portion please cross-post
and direct follow-ups to a more appropriate newsgroup.

-- 
====== Boyd Johnson   nosc!spectra.com!johnson  San Diego, California ======
	Intermittent newsfeed at best and only to selected groups.
	My opinions certainly don't match those of my employer.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103087
From: pamuelle@ingr.com ( Phil Mueller )
Subject: Re: Used BMW Question ..... ???

In article <1993Apr12.230031.160616@ua1ix.ua.edu> rpaturi@ho12.eng.ua.edu (Ravi) writes:
>
>Hi,	
>I am dying to get the  answer for the pricing polocy of a dealer
>here  in San Jose, California (I moved to caal  from AL)

You moved from Alabama to California?  My sympathies.

>Year	Model	Description		Milage	Price
>1991	318	Black, "Looks" good     46K	10.6K
>		5sp  manual, AC, 
>		Cassette, Sun roof 
>
>1989	318	White  same as aboove   50K	 9.6K
>

Make sure that they have all maintenance records.  Oil should be changed
every 3 months.  The mileage on the cars is fine.

Be sure that these have the 16 valve engine.  The 8 valve 318 is a 
BMW in name only.  

Didn't you have a line on a '89 325i for 12K? Jump on it.


-- 
Phil Mueller    pamuelle@ingr.com   -OR-   pamuelle@nc2145.b30.ingr.com
AMA: 686532   DOD: 132569   1991 Suzuki Bandit   1977 BMW R100/7


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103088
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: saturn -- puzzled by its pricing

In article <1993Mar31.181813.24122@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>In article <1pcgv5$oj9@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>>>Because I want to get the lowest price possible, it's called capitalism.
>>
>>I have news for you -- capitalism is the practice of maximizing
>>profits.
>
>Same difference, if you lower your costs you increase your profits.
>
>>Personally I'm not at all bothered by the Saturn pricing scheme.  If I
>>don't want to pay as much as they're selling it for, I can go buy a
>>different car from a different dealer and they get nothing.  That's
>>competition for you.  If the dealer can be competitive charging what
>>they do and making that kind of profit, that's capitalism at it's best
>>and more power to 'em.
>>
>
>I'd rather have the consumer dictate what things will cost not the
>dealers.

Sorry, but *neither* 'dictates' the cost. It's a negotiation.
Whether it's up front at a honda dealership in an all out 
dickering war, or more removed on a larger economic scale
(ie, if saturn can't sell at it's price, the price drops,
or the company stops building them), it remains a negotiated
value controlled by market forces. To think that the consumer 
controls price is ludicrous. If the consumer controled
price, then cars would be *free*...And no one would build 
cars.

Regards, Charles
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103089
From: Kurt Godden <godden@gmr.com>
Subject: GM May Build Toyota-badged Car

This appeared today in the 

The Japan Economic Journal reported GM plans to build a Toyota-badged car
in the US for sale in Japan.  Bruce MacDonald, VP of GM Corporate
Communications, yesterday confirmed that GM President and CEO Jack Smith
had a meeting recently with Tatsuro Toyoda, President of Toyota.  
this meeting the two discussed business opportunities to increase GM
exports to Japan, including further component sales as well as completed
vehicle sales,
parts sales, the two presidents agreed conceptually to pursue an
arrangement whereby GM would build a Toyota-badged, right-hand drive
vehicle in the US for sale by Toyota in Japan.  A working group has been
formed to finalize model specifications, exact timing and other details.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103090
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <1993Apr15.193712.25996@news.cs.brandeis.edu> andyh@chaos.cs.brandei
s.edu (Andrew J. Huang) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.020356.28944@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sorlin@magnus.ac
s.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>>I take the electrodes of the Amp/Ohm/Volt meter whatever and connect one
>>to each earlobe.  Then, symmetrically insert my fingers in each of the
>>spark plug boots. No cheating guys!  both hands must be used!
>
>I have just a couple of questions about this technique.
>
>First, what firing order should I use?  Do I start with my pointer
>finger or my pinky?  Left hand or right?

Place your hands flat on a table, and arrange the firing order from left to
right.

>And secondly, I have a 12cyl and there are two cylinders unaccounted
>for.  Any suggestions?

Well, you have friends don't you???
12 cylinders might be more excitement than one person can take....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103091
From: danmg@grok85.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Daniel Adams)
Subject: Re: BMW 3 series for 94?

In article <1qll56INNp9r@uwm.edu>, qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi) writes:
|> From article <eabu288-140493210752@dialin33635.slip.nts.uci.edu>, by eabu288@orion.oac.uci.edu (Alvin):
|> >
|> > Is there going to be a BMW 328 in 1994?
|> 
|> --Could be.  Isn't the 2.5 liter six supposed to be enlarged to 2.8 liters
|>   in the not-too-distant future?
|> 

Makes sense, since the new Mercedes Benz engines go from 2.2L-4 to a 2.8L-6.
Nothing in between.  BTW, I beleive the numbers on those MB engines are
156 and 225 hp respectively.  The one-upmanship in hp might induce BMW
to create a larger six.  Also, the 2.6 190E has lagged behind the 3-er
2.5 for some time wrt hp.   I am sure the Bavarians wouldn't want to be
"shown-up" by the Schwabians.

PS- those MB engines haven't been released over here yet.

daniel

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103092
From: dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5K9M5.7Ku@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>
>If I hear someone screwing with my car (ie, setting off the alarm) and
>taunting me to come out, you can be damn sure that my Colt Delta Elite
>will also be coming with me. It's not the screwing with the car that'd
>get them shot, it's the potential physical danger. If they're
>taunting like that, it's very possible that they also intend to rob
>me and/or do other physically harmful things.

Here in Houston last year a woman heard the sound of someone in her
garage, so she went to investigate with a gun in her hand.  She
found a guy in the process of stealing her bicycle.  She quite
reasonably asked him to stop.  He refused, began taunting her, and
as the woman was quoted in the police report, "He told me to go
ahead and shoot him, so I did."  The moron survived, and no
charges were filed against the woman.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103093
From: gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)       

>Why should a good driver be terrified at 130mph? The only thing I fear
>going at 130 are drivers, who switch to the left lane without using
>either rear-view-mirror or flashers. Doing 130 to 150 ain't a rush
>for me, but it's fun and I get where I want to go much faster.

In defense of the drivers, who are in the right lane.  Here in the states, people simply do not expect when they are driving to be overtaken at a speed differential of 50+mph.  I don't think this is because they are stupid (of course, there are exceptions), they are just programmed because of the 55mph limit. Do you (in the states) when you look in the rear-view ALWAYS calculate future  positions of cars based on a 50+ speed differential.  

Dont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake
cars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the judgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one.  

BTW, If no one else is around, then GO FOR IT!.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103094
From: arm1@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (arlen.r.martin)
Subject: Squeekin' Windows

Consumer Reports once wrote about the S-10 Blazer that it "shook and rattled
like a tired taxi cab".  There is one noise that is expecially irritating -
the back window squeaks.  I believe its because the whole tailgate assembly
and window are not solid.  Anyway, has anyone had the same problem, and have
you found any fixes?

Arlen Martin
AT&T Microelectronics
att!attme!stcarm
(215)391-2531


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103095
From: bbenson@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: Re: mazda - just does not feel right

In article <mxm1003.734826257@msi.umn.edu>, mxm1003@s15.msi.umn.edu (Ram V. Mohan) writes:
> I've a 89 mazda 323 with about 42000 miles on it.  Recently I do not get
> a good feeling of the road, esp. on a wet pavement when driving the car.
> It feels as if the car is wandering and there is no grip on the road.
> The tires are the original ones and have threads on them (passes the
> penny head test).  I had the shocks and struts and alignment checked and
> things are fine.  However I feel like that I dont have the grip of the
> road and feel as if the car is wandering esp. on turns.  Any help
> in this is appreciated.  Thanks.
> 

Two shots at it: (1) Check the tires again - if you can see the wear bars,
you're down to problem area (and some tires pass a penny test between the
bars - that's no guide at all). Your problem in the wet is call hydroplaning.
You may not have enough tread left to channel water out from under the
tire - so it goes fishy on you as it lifts off the road.

(2) Tires age. In particular, soft tire compounds get harder as you put
them thru more heat cycles. Harder compounds don't grip as well as
soft ones. Effect is very noticable on tires that get very hot very
often, such as in competition, but it hits all tires.

Bob Benson
 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103096
From: bhaskar@orion.me.uiuc.edu (Bhaskar Manda)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast) 

gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) writes:
>>Why should a good driver be terrified at 130mph? The only thing I fear
>>going at 130 are drivers, who switch to the left lane without using
>>either rear-view-mirror or flashers. Doing 130 to 150 ain't a rush
>>for me, but it's fun and I get where I want to go much faster.

>In defense of the drivers, who are in the right lane.  Here in the states, people simply do not expect when they are driving to be overtaken at a speed differential of 50+mph.  I don't think this is because they are stupid (of course, there are exceptions), they are just programmed because of the 55mph limit. Do you (in the states) when you look in the rear-view ALWAYS calculate future  positions of cars based on a 50+ speed differential.  
>Dont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake
>cars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the judgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one.  
>BTW, If no one else is around, then GO FOR IT!.

Keep up the good work guys.
Afterall the cops need to be occupied with someone so that lesser
mortals like us can be left alone.
Bhaskar@orion.me.uiuc.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103097
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <24485@drutx.ATT.COM> klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL) writes:
>In article <C5HHGM.1rM@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>| In article <1993Apr13.215605.26252@slcs.slb.com> dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
>| >In article <1q4466INNb85@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>| >>
>| >>It's a big aftermarket business.  Almost no cars come from the factory with
>| >>vynal any more, and any fake "convertible" job _definitely_ came from some
>| >>aftermarket place.  What amazes me is how much people are willing to pay for
>| >>bad taste
>| >
>| >How about those really ugly fake wheel compartments stuck onto the
>| >trunk or side (or both sides!) of some tacky luxury cars?
>| 
>| Some of 'em aren't fake (if you're talking about the Continental kit,
>| named after the Lincoln Continental, the first car to sport one). I
>| personally would _love_ to have a '56 T-Bird with a Continental kit
>| (and the supercharged V-8 :-); that is one of the most beautiful
>| cars ever built, IMHO.
>| 
>| 				James
>| 
>
>The Continental may have been the first "modern era" auto to mount the
>spare on the rear of the car but it was hardly the first car to sport one.
>Various mounting techniques for rear mounting the spare were quite common
>in early automobiles, both US and Foreign.

The 1941 Lincoln Continental was the first car to sport the "continental
kit." The continental kit is not to be confused with ye olde outside
mounting bracket; a continental kit is a very specific ornament/storage
compartment. (The 1941 Continental has a neat trunk; it looks rather
like a laundry hamper, IMHO. :-)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103098
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <1993Apr15.232412.2261@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us> david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang) writes:
>In article <5214@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>In article <chrissC587qB.D1B@netcom.com> chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester) writes:
>>
>>>WAGON, which I have heard is somehow slightly faster than the Coupe.
>>
>>	Wagon has an automatic, it's slower.
>>
>Could be due to the rear-end ratio also.  
>
>Usually automatics have different rear-ends than manuals, from
>my limited experience anyways.

You'll have fun looking for the rear-end gears on an SHO--the Taurus
is a front-wheel-drive vehicle...

I went back and checked the article again; The SHO Wagon is quicker
than the SHO automatic, but significantly slower than the REAL SHO.

Why anyone would order an SHO with an automatic transmission is
beyond me; if you can't handle a stick, you should stick with a
regular Taurus and leave the SHO to real drivers. That is not to
say that there aren't real drivers who can't use the stick (eg
disabled persons), but they aren't in any position to use an
SHO anyway. 

I would be willing to bet that if we removed the automatic
transmissions from all "performance-type" cars (like the 5.0l
Mustangs, Camaros, and the like) we'd cut down on the number of
accidents each year. Autos are fine for sedate little sedans,
but they have no business in performance cars, IMHO.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103099
From: opuglies@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Ing. Orlando Pugliese)
Subject: Is this a good price ?



   Hi everybody,

   I will buy a Honda Civic EX Coupe.  The dealer ask $12,750 for it,
including A/C ( installed ), but not including stereo, tax, registration
fees.  I live in Mexico, so I don't have time to go to a lot of dealers
and compare their prices.  The dealer is in McAllen, Tx.  Is this a good
price for that car ?  If not, how much should I pay for it ?

   Please e-mail ASAP if you don't want to post.  Thanks a lot.

   Orlando Pugliese
   opuglies@mtecv2.mty.itesm.mx


--
 ___________________________________
|        *        |                 |
|    ** * * **    |                 |  Orlando Pugliese N
|      * * *      |                 |  Instituto Tecnologico y de Estudios
|     *     *     |                 |         Superiores de Monterrey
|_________________|_________________|  Depto. de Informacion Academica
|                 |        *        |  Monterrey, N.L., Mexico
|                 |    ** * * **    |  (83) 58-2000 ext 4113

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103100
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

In article <1qmq7tINN9l@tamsun.tamu.edu> dlb5404@tamuts.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:
>Another user recently requested info about the Shadow/Sundance
>cars, but I haven't seen any public responses.
>
>What are people's experiences with these cars?
>
>Daryl
>
they are pretty much junk, stay away from them.  they will be replaced next
year with all new models.  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103101
From: smartin@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (steven.c.martin)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

From article <1993Apr16.162950.25849@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, by markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger):

> This kind of behavior is what I was shocked by in my 'experience'. For  
> crying out loud, how do these turkeys think they can talk to customers  
> this way and still stay in business? Again, I don't expect sales people to  
> bow, scrape, and grovel in my presence but I sure don't expect to be  
> abused either. I was very surprised by the way the sales people talked to  
> me and in other 'negotiating' sessions I overheard in neighboring sales  
> cubicles. Evidently, their success rate is high enough that they continue  
> to do business this way. There must be a lot of people out there who are  
> easy to intimidate.
> 

A couple of months ago I went to a dealership to test drive a car.  Afterwards,
we sat down to discuss prices.  I explained that I wanted a car just like the
one I drove, but in a different color.  He said he could get one exactly like
I wanted from the dealer network within a day.  We then negotiated a price and
signed the deal.

Next day, I get a call.  He explains that they goofed, and they had neglected
to take into account a price increase. (The last price increase had occurred
over 4 months prior to my visit.)  If I still wanted the car, I would
have to fork over another $700.  As an alternative, they would honor the
price if I bought the car I test drove (which had been sitting around for 
6 months and had a few miles on it). I said goodbye.  This was a good
example of how they can lowball you and still cover their butts.  It's too
bad more people don't demand honesty or these types of dealers would
no longer be in business.  

The next dealership I went to was straightforward and honest.  First thing the
salesman said was, "Lets's see what you have for dealer cost and work out
how much profit I should make."  The deal went through with no problems.

					Steve



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103102
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Subject: Re: "ELECTRONIC" ODOMETER

In article <C5Fp8B.2Co@megatest.com> alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung) writes:
>If I'm not mistaken, altering the odometer is *illegal*.  Furthermore,
>I surmise it'll be tough to alter BMW's odometer if you got at it.
>Some of the newer BMW's have electronic odometers making it even
>more tamperproof.

On the cars mentioned - 3 series from the late 80's the "electronic"
odometer is really a mechanical drum type odometer, that is driven
by pulses from a speed sensor on the rear axle.  These pulses are 
converted into mechanical pulses that turn the odometer - and speedometer.
No way changing or erasing an eprom is going to change the mileage
reading.  It also means the odometer is just as easy (or hard) to
change as any other mechanical odometer.

On the other hand it is a bit easier to disconnect the speed sensor
and run the car with no speedometer or odometer reading...a simple
switch will do the job.  It also will disable the speed limiter,
which will enable the car to reach it's full speed.  ;-)


-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103103
From: baker@DFWVX1.DALLAS.GEOQUEST.SLB.COM
Subject: insurance says car is totalled.




		on wednesday morning, another driver decided to illegally
		turn left in front of me, doing great damage to my car
		(Honda Civic).
		i have yet to pay off the car, and the body shop says the
		insurance company wants to total the car.  i haven't
		been able to get in touch with the person handling my claim,
		so i checked on some things:
	
			1) my payout is $3700.00
			2) Blue Book retail is $5650.00
			3) loan value is $4450.00
			4) trade-in value is $4000.00

		could anyone give me any advice on what i should/could do
		if the insurance company does not give me a reasonable
		amount for the loss of the car.

				thanks,
				james baker

				baker@dfwvx1.dallas.geoquest.slb.com



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103104
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Options that would be great to have...




A list of options that would be useful. They can be existing
options on a car, or things you'd like to have...

1) Tripmeter, great little gadget. Lets you keep rough track of
   mileage, makes a good second guesser for your gas gauge...

2) Full size spare

3) Built in mountings and power systems for radar detectors.

4) a fitting that allows you to generate household current with
the engine running, and plug ins in the trunk, engine compartment
and cabin.

Feel free to add on...

Regards, Charles
x
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103105
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Dumb options list

The idea here is to list pointless options. You know, stuff you
get on a car that has no earthly use?


1) Power windows



Add as you wish...

Regards, Charles
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103106
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)


In a previous article, gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) says:

>>Why should a good driver be terrified at 130mph? The only thing I fear
>>going at 130 are drivers, who switch to the left lane without using
>>either rear-view-mirror or flashers. Doing 130 to 150 ain't a rush
>>for me, but it's fun and I get where I want to go much faster.
>
>In defense of the drivers, who are in the right lane.  Here in the states, people simply do not expect when they are driving to be overtaken at a speed differential of 50+mph.  I don't think this is because they are stupid (of course, there are exceptions), they are just programmed because of the 55mph limit. Do you (in the states) when you look in the rear-view ALWAYS calculate future  positions of cars based on a 50+ speed differential.  
>Dont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake
>cars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the judgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one.  

just to satiate my curiosity, why would this make you the stupid one?  It seems
to me, everybody SHOULD be aware enough of what is going on.  You do not need
to calculate the future position.  You need to look at your mirrors a little
more.  If you glance around, you will be able to tell how much faster than you
the car is going.  Maybe not precisely, but well enough to know if you should
let him around before you try to pass.  I know what you are talking about,
about the other driver being startled, because i myself have been startled
by drivers cruising by at around 90-100mph when i'm doin 55-65.  The problem,
though, as i saw it, was not their fault for barreling around me, but my fault
for not paying the attention to my task-at-hand that i should have been.
Oddly enough, since the 2nd time(happened 2x in around 4 mo. when i'd had my
liscence for around 6 mo), i haven't been startled..and i've been passed by
cars doing roughly twice the speed of my car.  Another odd occurance is the
fact that this only seems to happen on LONG trips...and if i drive along with
them, it doesn't happen at all :-) even on the long trips! :-)  (adrenaline
will do that to you...i've had bad cop experiences with speeding, so anything
over the limit is adrenalizing for me...scared i'll get caught :-)  Maybe
they should raise the limit, so we can pay better attention.....

just curious, and my .otwo

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103107
From: jburrill@boi.hp.com (Jim Burrill)
Subject: Re: Squeekin' Windows

arlen.r.martin (arm1@cbnewsm.cb.att.com) wrote:
: Consumer Reports once wrote about the S-10 Blazer that it "shook and rattled
: like a tired taxi cab".  There is one noise that is expecially irritating -
: the back window squeaks.  I believe its because the whole tailgate assembly
: and window are not solid.  Anyway, has anyone had the same problem, and have
: you found any fixes?
:

I can relate to this. I've tried everything on my 86, greasing every point,
WD40, etc. Grease on the two cheap hinges on the tailgate seems to quiet it
down for a time, until the grease works out of the hinges. (Hinge pins appear
to be made out of 16 penny nails!) 

Another vibration seems to get worse with age, and that is a vibration in the
transmission in 4th gear. My S10 has 59K miles on it. I bought it new, treated
it very easily, no fast off-road stuff. Can't GM build Chevies like they used
to? Ford Explorers look nice, until you look at the price.

Jim Burrill

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103108
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Subject: Re: Saturn's Pricing Policy

I just ordered a Saturn SL1 after considering a few imports. Frankly, the Saturn
way of doing business and service was a *very* big plus. I hadn't bought a new
car since I bought my Honda 4WD back in '85, and I was unbelieveably offended by
most salespeople I met.

Saturn was indeed very different. I made three different visits to the dealer where
I bought my car, and was never pressured. Saturn also had the best after-sales
support, and the fixed pricing made it *very* easy for me to decide exactly what
I wanted to buy. Another big selling point was running into my mechanic at the
dealer. He's been fixing imports for 20 years...and bought a Saturn, based on
what he's seen and heard from his customers. 

Saturn also has a good extended warranty program; $675 for 6 year/60K miles, 
fully refunded if you don't use it. That works out to an actual cost of $170 or
so, based on the 6 year treasury rates. Using savings account rates it's more
like $120. In the first three years it also buys you free rental during any
warranty work, without counting against the refund.

--mike



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103109
From: a207706@moe.dseg.ti.com (Robert Loper)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <C5L8rE.28@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.232412.2261@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us> david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang) writes:
>>In article <5214@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>>In article <chrissC587qB.D1B@netcom.com> chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester) writes:
>>>
>
>Why anyone would order an SHO with an automatic transmission is
>beyond me; if you can't handle a stick, you should stick with a
>regular Taurus and leave the SHO to real drivers. That is not to
>say that there aren't real drivers who can't use the stick (eg
>disabled persons), but they aren't in any position to use an
>SHO anyway. 
>
>I would be willing to bet that if we removed the automatic
>transmissions from all "performance-type" cars (like the 5.0l
>Mustangs, Camaros, and the like) we'd cut down on the number of
>accidents each year. Autos are fine for sedate little sedans,
>but they have no business in performance cars, IMHO.
>
>				James
>
I have to disagree with this.  I have a 92 Z28 with a 350 and a 4-speed auto
w/ overdrive, and it is really better that way.  Chevy autos are reknowned
for their long life and ability to handle copious amount of power.  I live 
in the Dallas area, and a manual would be much harder to drive in the traffic 
here.  Now if I still lived out in the sticks like I used to, a manual would be
more fun.  

Safety-wise, an auto is less distracting...I would hate to have to be    
shifting gears while I was trying to ease into traffic in the freeways here.
Performance-wise, I can hold my own against any stock 5.0 Mustang or 5.0
Camaro w/ a five speed.  

All of this IMHO... :)




-- 
*  Robert L. Loper             * - Infinity is a notion best contemplated    *
*  ROBERTLL@FLOPN2.dseg.ti.com *      in a warm bed.                         *
*  Texas Instruments, Inc.     * - My opinions are my own, not TI's.         *

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103110
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qkon8$3re@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>larger engine.  That's what the SHO is -- a slightly modified family
>sedan with a powerful engine.  They didn't even bother improving the
>*brakes.*

	That shows how much you know about anything.  The brakes on the
SHO are very different - 9 inch (or 9.5? I forget) discs all around,
vented in front.  The normal Taurus setup is (smaller) discs front, 
drums rear.

	Your argument still boils down to "An SHO shouldn't be driven
fast because I, Jim Frost, say it isn't designed to go fast."

	Pffffftttttt.

>If you think so you sure don't pay attention to my postings.

	Damn straight.  You're one of those people who makes stuff
up and tries to pawn it off as God's own truth.  If I want lies I can
go listen to television.

							the wharf rat



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103111
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Where can I get a New York taxi?

In article <15631@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA> tnelson@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA (Tim Nelson) writes:
>The older NY taxis were made by the Checker Car Company, and I would love
>to have one.
>Or, is the Checker Car Company still in business?

	Checker Motors went out of business in 1982.  It's hard to get
old Checkers that are worth restoring, since almost every one was
a fleet vehicle that was driven into the ground.  If you can get a 
body in decent shape the mechanicals should all be available _somewhere_ - 
Checker used whatever parts were around.  For instance, I had a Chevy
straight six and a GMC Truck radiator and a Ford rear in mine.

>
>The model that I am looking for is the Checker Marathon.

	Actually, you want a Checker Special if you can find one.

	Good luck.  I'm sorry I let mine go...



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103112
From: gregg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Gregg L. Kasten)
Subject: differences in insurance companies' rates

I am considering buying an new car, so I called three insurance
companies in California to get estimates. I asked for the same
coverage and same deductibles. Most of the companies charge you
according to your zip code. Others charge according to your city.
Anyhow, I gave the same zip code and city to all three places. Here's
what I found (for a '93 Integra GS):

AAA: ~$2000/yr.
State Farm: 2614.92/yr.
Allstate: 1220/yr.

AAA is non-profit, so they said I could also expect to receive about
$200-300 back at the end of the year.

Still, There is a huge gap between all of these companies. State Farm
wants MORE than TWICE as much as Allstate. I think I should be
suspicious, but I've never heard anybody else complain.

Any comments?

Thanks,
Gregg L. Kasten
gregg@cs.stanford.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103113
From: hamachi@adobe.com (Gordon Hamachi)
Subject: Re: Honda Accord Brake Problem

Joni Ciarletta writes
> My Honda Accord just hit the magic 100,000 mile mark and now
> all sorts of things are beginning to go bad. The latest problem
> I am experiencing is with my brakes.  They still stop the
> car fine, but once I am stopped completely, my brake pedal
> will sink another 2 or 3 inches all by itself.  If feels really
> strange, and I am worried my brakes will quit working one of
> these days.
> 
> I checked my brake fluid, and the reservoir was full, but the
> fluid itself looked really dirty (like dirty oil).  I called
> my mechanic and he told me I need a new brake master cylinder,
> which will cost me a whopping $250-300.

You are not alone.  My '79 Honda Accord with 110,000 miles on it started  
showing the same behavior.

I replaced the brake master cylinder myself.  It took about an hour and cost  
about $45.  Sure beats paying $300 to have someone else do it!  If I wanted to  
rebuild my own master cylinder instead of putting in a rebuilt one, it would  
have cost only $20 to $30 for the rebuild kit.

The Honda brake master cylinder is easy to get to.  Two bolts attach it to the  
engine compartment.  Two brake lines enter the master cylinder.  The tricky  
part was that the brake lines were stuck tight.  My Craftsmen open end wrench  
rounded off the bolt heads!  I had to use Vise Grips to loosen those suckers.   
Wow!  Best invention since sliced bread.  After that it was very easy.  Bolt  
the new part in place, add new brake fluid, and bleed the brakes.

This is quite easy even for a beginner.  My local auto parts store had a repair  
manual for the Honda Accord; it had detailed diagrams of the master brake  
cylinder and a step-by-step procedure for replacing it.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103114
From: ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker)
Subject: Re: Options that would be great to have...


In a previous article, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) says:


A list of options that would be useful. They can be existing
options on a car, or things you'd like to have...

1) Tripmeter, great little gadget. Lets you keep rough track of>
   mileage, makes a good second guesser for your gas gauge...

2) Full size spare

3) Built in mountings and power systems for radar detectors.

4) a fitting that allows you to generate household current with
the engine running, and plug ins in the trunk, engine compartment
and cabin.

Feel free to add on...

5) Power windows
-- 
DoD #650<----------------------------------------------------------->DarkMan
   The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of
      thinking we were at when we created them.   - Albert Einstein
         ___________________The Eternal Champion_________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103115
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Subject: Manual Shift Bigots

Now, my ego with regards to my shifting ability is as big as anyone else's, but
I just ordered my first car with an auto trans. I wasn't planning on it; but
after driving a few I was convinced: Things have changed since the days of 
"Slip 'n' Slide Withe Powerglide". They shift *better* than I do, there's no
clutch to wear out (Honda wanted $800 for my 4WD wagon last year!- got it done
for $500), it only costs about 5% in gas milage on the highway and it makes it
easier to concentrate on all the radios in my car ;-)

(Oddly enough, while two of my best friends- both in the auto industry here in the 
Motor City- have switched wholeheartedly to autos, their wives *insist* on 
manual. Shift envy?)

Braggadocio aside, given today's technology and the warranties they're handing 
out the auto trans seemed like an excellent choice. Call me a convert.

  --mike


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103116
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Subject: Re: Saturn 91-92 Manual Transmission Problem

In article KA6@crdnns.crd.ge.com,  cimjfg@sn370.utica.ge.com writes:
 ."
>
>After many trips to the dealer, who has admittedly been patient with me,
>they are admittedly going to do nothing about it....>
>The dealer did however follow the Bulletin and "review proper shifing
>procedures with the owner"....
>My next attempt at satisfaction in the Customer 800 number but from the first
>round it doesn't sound too hopeful.
>

I'm surprised. I know of a local case where a guy took his Saturn back five
times to complain they hadn't properly eliminated a rattling noise...so Saturn
gave him a new car.

Call that 1-800 number.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103117
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: Too fast


In a previous article, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) says:

>In article <1qkon8$3re@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>larger engine.  That's what the SHO is -- a slightly modified family
>>sedan with a powerful engine.  They didn't even bother improving the
>>*brakes.*
>
>	That shows how much you know about anything.  The brakes on the
>SHO are very different - 9 inch (or 9.5? I forget) discs all around,
>vented in front.  The normal Taurus setup is (smaller) discs front, 
>drums rear.

one i saw had vented rears too...it was on a lot.
of course, the sales man was a fool..."titanium wheels"..yeah, right..
then later told me they were "magnesium"..more believable, but still
crap, since Al is so m uch cheaper, and just as good....


i tend to agree, tho that this still doesn't take the SHO up to "standard"
for running 130 on a regular basis.  The brakes should be bigger, like
11" or so...take a look at the  ones on the Corrados.(where they have
braking regulations).

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103118
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC


In a previous article, a207706@moe.dseg.ti.com (Robert Loper) says:

>In article <C5L8rE.28@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr15.232412.2261@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us> david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang) writes:
>>>In article <5214@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>>>In article <chrissC587qB.D1B@netcom.com> chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester) writes:
>>>>
>>
>>Why anyone would order an SHO with an automatic transmission is
>>beyond me; if you can't handle a stick, you should stick with a
>>regular Taurus and leave the SHO to real drivers. That is not to
>>say that there aren't real drivers who can't use the stick (eg
>>disabled persons), but they aren't in any position to use an
>>SHO anyway. 
>>
>>I would be willing to bet that if we removed the automatic
>>transmissions from all "performance-type" cars (like the 5.0l
>>Mustangs, Camaros, and the like) we'd cut down on the number of
>>accidents each year. Autos are fine for sedate little sedans,
>>but they have no business in performance cars, IMHO.
>>
>>				James
>>
>I have to disagree with this.  I have a 92 Z28 with a 350 and a 4-speed auto
>w/ overdrive, and it is really better that way.  Chevy autos are reknowned
>for their long life and ability to handle copious amount of power.  I live 
>in the Dallas area, and a manual would be much harder to drive in the traffic 
>here.  Now if I still lived out in the sticks like I used to, a manual would be
>more fun.  
>
>Safety-wise, an auto is less distracting...I would hate to have to be    
>shifting gears while I was trying to ease into traffic in the freeways here.
>Performance-wise, I can hold my own against any stock 5.0 Mustang or 5.0
>Camaro w/ a five speed.  
>
>All of this IMHO... :)

all of my HO's disagree with your HO's.  I LOVED Dallas rush hour in my stick..
detested it in the auto(like i did any other time in the auto...).  Of course,
Dalls rush hours are nothing, from what i hear..if i lived in LA, i might
be of a different persuasion.  And, just for the record, rarely do you shift
gears when merging into traffic..that is what 5 speeds are good for..4th is
good up through around 80-90, most of the time, so you can just wind it out..
it's not going to hurt anything, and keeps it in the powerband anyway..
only shift into top gear when you are exceeding redline in 4th(fairly rare,
unless you drive a ferrari or some such, i'd bet) or when you hit cruising 
speed where you feel comfortable(or when my mother is sitting in the 
passanger seat complaining about how you wind her "poor little engine" way
too hi :-)
Just my HO's..

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103119
From: <LRR105@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dents on car.

All you have to do is turn it in to the police like you would an accident,
get a report and send it in to your insurance company and they will contact
the other guys insurance company and they will have to pay just as they
would in an accident they caused.  Thus no need to go to court.  A friend of
mine did this and he got the money so it does work.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103120
From: rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ronald.j.deblock..jr)
Subject: Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles

In article <20726.2bcd8b62@ecs.umass.edu> sylveste@ecs.umass.edu writes:
>Before the S4 became the S4 it was called the 200 turbo quattro 20v.
>This model did come in a wagon, a very quick wagon.  Very rare also.
>
>                                                   Mike Sylvester  Umass
>

Yes, I saw a 200 Turbo Quattro wagon on I-287 in NJ on Monday.  I thought
Audi stopped selling wagons in the US after the 5000.  This is exactly the
type of vehicle I would like to own.  I bet its price is 4-5 times my
car budget.
-- 
Ron DeBlock  rdb1@homxb.att.com  (that's a number 1 in rdb1, not letter l)
AT&T Bell Labs   Somerset, NJ  USA

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103121
From: gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <C5unFy.E7I@dove.nist.gov> keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys) writes:
>In article <C5uI6u.Ao0@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr21.171811.25933@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>>>
>>>In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>>>>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>>>>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>>>>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>>>>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
>>>
Don't worry about this -- they'll drop you like a hot potato after you do
  make a claim. They'll just make filing the claim a pain, but it will end
  when they leave you in the lurch.

>>>I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
>>>guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).
More than that. GEICO funded the company that developed LIDAR. When locals 
  showed a reluctance to BUY the units, GEICO started giving them away. I
  know they've given units to the Florida Highway Patrol, County Sheriff's a
  and some local governments.
The real question is why? This is the hook. GEICO, and other Ins. Co.s can
  tell which drivers represent risk. This is a determination they can make
  AFTER YOU receive a speeding ticket from one of GEICO's LIDAR units. Most
  drivers do not represent increased risk even after a ticket or two, but 
  this gives them the opportunity to RAISE RATES FOR EQUAL RISK. It's called
  extra profits. They also know how silly the NSL is, and how it is almost
  universally ignored. Driving in excess of the NSL gets you a ticket, an
  increase in your rates, points on your license --- but it doesn't make you
  a riskier driver to insure.
Like the sound of this? Like the people who thought up the scheme? Go GEICO!

Unless you have some driving history problems, you're usually better to go
with one of the major companies and stay there. You'll get long term customer
discounts on your premiums. Now, about the % of your premium that is paid as
commission. That's another story for another day.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103122
From: gwalker@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Grayson Walker)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)


Bob: Excellent! To the point and correct! Spread the word. 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103123
Subject: Lexus and Infiniti
From: w00026@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU

First off, the correct spelling of Nissan's luxury automobile division
is "Infiniti" not "Infinity."  I would also like to clear up the question
of what kind of engines power Lexus and Infiniti automobiles, since a
person had remarked in earlier posts that most Lexus and Infiniti models
had V6 engines, while at the same time saying that several of each
manufacturer used V8 engines.

Lexus:
  LS400- V8
  GS300- V6
  ES300- V6
  SC400- V8
  SC300- V6

Infiniti:
  Q45- V8
  J30- V6
  G20- inline 4 (I must admit that I cannot remeber for sure here)

I hope this helps.

-BSB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103124
From: monet@carson.u.washington.edu (Diana Smith)
Subject: Borgward question


My ex-husband & I used to own Borgwards.  Haven't seen any for a long
time.  They were really good cars.  Does ayone out there know anything
about them now?  I heard they were being made in Mexico, but of course
they wouldn't be the original German - if that's even true.  When I've
been in Mexico I haven't seen any.  We loved ours, even tho' they were
ugly - they had names - one was Humphrey Borgward.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103125
From: petebre@elof.iit.edu (Brent A. Peterson)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <C5xtp7.MtB@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
>In article <1993Apr22.192652.3032@virginia.edu> jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blade Runner") writes:
>>I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
>>that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
>>will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
>>way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
>>100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
>>Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
>>there hear anything about it recently?
>
>
>If everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but "re-
>skinning" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications.
>And the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job
>of it.  
>
>The "new" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car.
>
>Jeff
>
>
gee.... is it 1999 already?

Yes, it will still be on the fox program chasis, anything that will be different
on the new car as far as mechanical's is unknown. The suspension will most
likely be changed, as well as the drive drain. From what has been printed on
it, there is no clear idea of what will be done, as some say it will have
the modular V8 and others the current small block... just have to wait and see
Also is far as styling goes from what I seen is good, a return to tradition.
C scoop on the sides and roof line much like a '65 or '66 fastback.

    -Bp
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103126
From: tommy@boole.att.com (Tommy Reingold)
Subject: Re: Likelihood of radio being stolen

The question is not whether your radio will be stolen.  The question is
when your radio will be stolen.
-- 
Tommy Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103127
From: ivab015@chpc.utexas.edu (Albert Wu)
Subject: A/C Service Rip-off

I went to a place called American Car Care Centers to check my car for A/C
leak.  After "checking", I was told that there is a leak in the compressor
seal.  At the end, in addition to the labor for the check, I was charged 12
dollars for a pound of freon, although they evacuated my A/C afterwards
because of the leak.  First, is it fair for him to charge me for a pound of
freon ($12 plus tax) ?  Second, what can I do about this if this is unfair ?

-- Albert Wu.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103128
From: bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article <20APR199310391109@csa3.lbl.gov> jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera) writes:
>Wharf Wrat rites:
>
>>They were designed for speeds of upwards of 80 - I forget the
>>exact spec - but for military vehicles.  That's 80 in a 1958 Dodge 
>>Powerwagon.  Not 80 in a 1993 Ford Taurus.
>
>Ever' once in a while, you still see a reference to the super-
>slab system as "Interstate and Defense Highways."  But whether
>the military has much of anything that goes 80 on the road is
>another matter.  A few of their most whomped-up diesel trucks,
>maybe, load permitting.  The military surplus stuff I've
>driven -- "Jeep Classic" (Willys/Kaiser/AMC, pre-independent
>suspension) and Power Wagons (Slant 6 in a crew-cab pickup)

Actually, I've heard that some M1 Abrams tank commanders take the 
governers off their turbine engines, and can acheive 90MPH on a
paved road.  Never seen it myself, but I believe it...

>weren't exactly congenial at highway speeds, and I wouldn't
>swear any of them would do 80 except as a bedload on a semi.

[stuff deleted]

>
>--Joe
>"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ___          
       / _ \                 '85 Mustang GT                        Bob Pitas
      /    /USH              14.13 @ 99.8                      bpita@ctp.com
     / /| \                  Up at NED, Epping, NH           (Cambridge, MA)

                           "" - Geddy Lee (in YYZ)
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103129
From: bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1r1d62$d6s@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:
>rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
>>How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
>>agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?
>
>Hear, hear!  Thanks, Robbie.
>
>You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as
>George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,
>who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.
>
>
>On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers
>for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be.
>Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do
>with people of all ages.

Well, this isn't the right group for this, but I have to say that I don't
think violence is any more socially acceptable now, by any means.  How
can you say that when we used to have of pistol-toting gunslingers as 
heros, or even gangland thugs being considered romantic.  Do you think
our great grandparent got yelled at by their parents for playing cowboys
and indians?  I don't think so.  That behavior was somewhat encouraged
back then, in fact.
I think the only difference between now and then is that nowadays, when
some teenager kills another one in a classroom in California, we here 
about it in MA the same day.  Back in the old days, they'd never hear 
about something like that, period. 

Sorry about posting to rec.autos, but this is where it came up...


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ___          
       / _ \                 '85 Mustang GT                        Bob Pitas
      /    /USH              14.13 @ 99.8                      bpita@ctp.com
     / /| \                  Up at NED, Epping, NH           (Cambridge, MA)

                           "" - Geddy Lee (in YYZ)
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, obviously, since they end with my .sig!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103130
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu> eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>
>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>
         A 180 degree V   Ya gotta love it !>
>eliot



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103131
From: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Subject: Re: locking lugnuts / tire rebalance??

In rec.autos, mas@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
xIf you put a locking lugnut on your tires, do you need to have your
xtires rebalanced??
x
xJohn Mas
x
xE-Mail Address     ::     MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM

Since the wheel/tire is balanced off the car i.e. the lugnuts are
not normally involved, how would they do that? I would think that
since the lugs are so close to the center of rotation any slight
difference in weight between a normal lugnut and a locking one would
not have any noticable effect on the balance. I could be wrong, it *is*
Friday afternoon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mack Costello <mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)
David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC    ___/-\____
Bethesda, MD 20084-5000   Phone (301) 227-2431          (__________>|

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103132
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <nataraja.735495588@geode14> nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan) writes:
>mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:
>
>>In <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>
>>>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>>>have v engines.
>
>>>V4 - I don't know of any.
>
>ditto
         Seems to me that I heard that some early Saabs were 2 cycle V4's.
   Then again, who could possibly care ?>
>>>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>
>What's an "MR3, or MR6"?
>Most any GM w/ the 3800 V6.
>
>
>>>V8 - Don't know of any.
>>Mustang 5.0 (302)
>>Camaros & Firebirds
>>Some Mercedes'
>Lexus LS400 (SC400)
>Infinity Q45
>
>
>>>V12 - Jaguar XJS
>
>Some Mercedes
>BMW 750il
>Lamborghini Countach
>Lamborghini Diablo
>
>>> Please add to the list.
>
>-- 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-- Vel Natarajan  nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL  --
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103133
From: jao@megatest.com (John Oswalt)
Subject: Re: legal car buying problems

rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
: In article <9285.27317@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> bob@runway.swdc.stratus.com (Bob Hutson) writes:
: >After agreeing to terms I signed the contract and drove home in my new
: >car.  Later that same night I noticed that the terms in the were
: >different from the terms I had agreed to.  (I made the stupid mistake
: >of not checking everything on the contract).  This all happened last
: >Saturday.
: >
: >I have heard that there is a "cooling-off" law allowing me three days
: >to reconsider the contract.  Is this true?  Can anyone point me to the
: >law?  The transaction happened at the dealership, if it matters.
: 
: This cooling off period applies only in certain situations - lik ewhen
: you are solicited at home.  I also think the cooling off period ends
: if you actually accept the merchandise.
: 
: If this were not the case, any car buyer would have the right to return
: a slightly used, highly devalued, car 2 days after buying it.  Yeah - 
: that's the trick - if I want to buy a new car, I'd have a firend buy 
: & return one, then go in and negotiate a better deal on a pre-owned
: used car.

However, if you agree some terms, and then, when about to sign, the
dealer slips you a contract with different terms, and leads you to
believe that it embodies the terms you verbally agreed to, that
is fraud.  There is no 3 day limit on restitution for fraud.

You may have to sue (and win) to get out of this.  You will almost
certainly have to threaten to sue.
-- 

John Oswalt        jao@megatest.com     or    jao@netcom.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103134
From: yjwon@deca.cs.umn.edu (Youjip Won)
Subject: Information needed...

Hi! This is my first time to post on this news group. Now a days , I have stucked at a certain problem. I have '88 mazda mx-6, non  turbo fuel injection.
   There is a engine warning signal on the dash board. While driving, this signal turns on, but not always. What does this mean? In the manual, they say "Go to authorized mazda dealer.". It is really good idea. Don't you think so? 
  I wanna know how the engine warning signal comes. Is anybody out there who can give me same advice as "authorized mazda dealer" can give ?

Youjip Won

yjwon@cs.umn.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103135
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti

In article <1993Apr23.105438.3245@msus1.msus.edu> w00026@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
>First off, the correct spelling of Nissan's luxury automobile division
>is "Infiniti" not "Infinity."

who cares about typos of these meaningless, synthetic names?  if the
cars were named after a person, e.g. honda, i'd be more respectful.

>Lexus:
>  GS300- V6
>  ES300- V6
>  SC300- V6

wrong!  the GS300 and SC300 use straight sixes, while the ES300 uses a
V6.  only a giant like toyota can afford to have both a V6 and inline
6 in its lineup, but that won't last for long.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103136
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: Help!!!(With Buick Regal)

In article <C5wyKp.L98@ulowell.ulowell.edu> gvahe@cs.ulowell.edu (Gerry Vahe) writes:
>
>
>HHHEEELLLPPP!!!!
>
>---I'm Going crazy.  I have a 1981 buick regal with over 100,000 miles on it.
>
>Just recently, when I go Over a bump of any size,  The rear drivers's side of th
>
>e car feels like there is something hitting the floor board.  The noise is ampli
>
>fied when I am going around a corner when there is less weight above the tire wh
>
>en I hit a bump.
>
>I had the whole brake drum off today, checked under the car to see if th
>
>e muffler was hitting or something and I cant seem to find anything at all.  Eve
>
>rything seems to be tight.
>
>
>
>---Any Ideas?  Could it bee a shock absorber?  Is there any way I can tell?
>
>Anything will help and be greatly appreciated
>-gerry
        Check out the shocks where they mount, at both ends. if you have
    the type that have a loop?,from lack of a better term, and a bolt like
   piece sticking through, there should be a rubber bushing between the loop
   and the bolt. Is it there ? is it crushed and allowing metal to metal
    contact?  I hope you can make some sense of this. Good Luck.>
>
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103137
From: reaper@wixer.bga.com (Keath Milligan)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <gjg2001-220493224950@m248-103.bgsu.edu> gjg2001@andy.bgsu.edu (Greg Gantzer) writes:
>In article <1993Apr22.192652.3032@Virginia.EDU>, jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The
>Blade Runner") wrote:
>> 
>> I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
>> that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
>> will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
>> way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
>> 100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
>> Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
>> there hear anything about it recently?
>
>Yeah, it looks like shit!!!  Nothing like the mach III. Check out the
>latest issue of popular mechanics, they have a picture of one.  It looks
>like a cross between a dodge daytona and an eagle talon, only much uglier. 
>This car looks like it should have been produced in 1990, not 1994.

I'll pick up that PM and have a look -- maybe the picture in there is not
the actual car, but a prototype?

I saw the Mach III and was not all that impressed -- it looked WAY too
Japanese for me... the tear drop headlights reminded me of a Nissan NX...

Glad I didn't hold out for the '94 and bought a '93.  Maybe they'll work on
the design a little bit, listen to consumers and come out with nice-looking
'95 or '96.  It always takes a while to work out the kinks in a new design,
e.g. the F-body Camaro/Firebirds (btw, the new Camaros look like shit too).
-- 
Keath Milligan, Software Engineer, VideoTelecom Corporation, Austin, Texas
jkm@vtel.com, reaper@wixer.bga.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try Real/Time Communications! (512-459-4391 or telnet wixer.bga.com)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103138
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions

In article <C5wEqE.5IG@news.rich.bnr.ca> herling@crchh111.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brent Herling) writes:
>
>
>>In article <1993Apr21.160341.24707@westminster.ac.uk>, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
>>|> I just wanted to know:
>>|> 
>>|> To wheelspin in an auto, you keep the gear in N - gas it - then stick the 
>>|> gear in D... I've never tried this but am sure it works - but does this screw 
>>|> up the autobox? We're having a bit of a debate about it here...
>>
>>
>>Ah yes,  the neutral slam.
>>
>>I know that GM tested the old th400's and th350's by shifting from reverse to
>>forward gears repeatedly while holding the engine at high rpms.  the units hold
>>up incredibly well.  This is also the recommended technique to "rock" a stuck
>>vehicle out of the mud.  I think the hydraulics are up to the task, but the
>>mechanicals of the driveline may object by breaking something.
>>
>>$0.02
>>
>>Ericy 
>I agree about the durability of the old TH400 trannies from GM.  While I 
>never intentionally slamed my '68 Firebird 400 ci Conv. into gear, I would leave 
>the trannie in Low (read 1st), grab hold, hit the pedal, and once the tires 
>grabbed, take off.  When I reached about 57-60mph the turbo 400 Auto would 
>shift to S (read 'super' or 2nd) and leave about 10 to 15 foot of double 
>stripped rubber on the ground.  Most everyone I knew at the time was quite 
>impressed with 'peeling' out at 60 MPH.  The trannie held up just fine.
>Motor mounts would last about a year until I tied the motor down with large
>chains.  Oh yea,FYI:    Pontiac 400 ci bored 0.04 over   
>                        Large Valve heads
>                        Holley 650 Spread bore
>                        Crain 'BLAZER' cam (don't remember the specs)
>                        PosiTrac, Hooker headers, Dual exhaust
>                        Get this (Conv., leather seats, power windows
>                                  power top, AC, Cruise etc.) 
>
>  Oh yea, I also pulled the 'Cocktail shakers' (weights) from the front
>  and removed the lead pellet from the accelerator pedal. (Damn US regulations)   
> OH, HOW I MISS THAT CAR!!! 
>  -- 0-60 under 6.7 sec  and about 6 to 14 mpg (well I don't miss the mpg)
>  -- front wheels 4" off the ground with three quick jabs at the pedal.
>  -- bent pushrods, stripped rocker studs,  every 6-12 months 
>     ( I really wonder what kind of rev's I was turning - no tach)
>Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions
>  Anyone seen one of these lately?  I'd buy it back in a sec!!!
>
>OPEN TOP Brent

        Am I the only one that smells a little  El caca Del Toro here ???

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103139
From: "Arun G. Jayakumar" <aj22+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: VASCAR

I know this is the wrong place to post this, but I couldn't find any
relevant newsgroups in my area.

For those of you who are from PA, where is VASCAR (where the cops
measure your speed from the time it takes you to cross the distance
between two white lines on the road, right?) most commonly used?  I'm
especially interested in the Pittsburgh area (specific locations, prior
experiences, if possible).  For those PA and non-PA, if they use VASCAR
in your state, is it most common in rural, city, highway areas, etc. 
What I'm interested in mainly is where I can speed with the least risk
of being caught.  You can always detect radar, but there's no way to
fight VASCAR unless you know where all the white lines are.

Thanks a lot,

    Arun Jayakumar

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103140
From: goose@vaxeline  (Kevin Gosson)
Subject: 89 Honda CRX DX

	    1989 Honda CRX DX, White w/Blue int. 
	    Original owner,  59,500 miles, mostly highway.
	    Recent tune-up, new battery
	    Oil changed every 3000 miles
	    Kenwood high power cassette receiver, w/ 4 spkrs
	    $6800 or best reasonable offer

	    If interested, please e-mail me at goose@ftp.com
	    or call after 6pm  603-437-6348 ask for kevin




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103141
From: <U59985@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?

I've had a Valentine for about 9 months now and I agree that it is the best det
ector available. The point here is trust and reliability. I've been able to "tr
ust" the Valentine more than any other detector I've owend. If the Valentine sa
ys that there is a moderate to strong radar source in front of me, then it's mo
re than likely to be a speed trap. With my other detectors, I've gotten so many
 falses that I've begun to ignore someo of the warnings because I didn't want t
o drive like I had one foot on the brake and one on the gas pedal.

That directional indicator really, really helps. Plus, more info is almost alwa
ys better than less info. No matter how smart radar detectors get, the human br
ain is usually smarter. So, if I'm going to make a decisio based on information
 at hand, I want all the info I can get. Plus, if you divide the overall streng
th of the radar signal by the number of bogeys reported, you'll find that each
bogey is pretty weak and therefore not a radar threat. With other detectors, yo
u'll just get one strong warning. My logic may be faulty on this, but I think i
t works okay.

Although, I must admit that I haven't really noticed the reflection problem of
one radar souce.

Thomas

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103142
From: <U59985@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Re: Saturn Extended Warranty

I agree with Gaia. Even though the Saturn has proved to be a very reliable car
so far, a little money spent now is worth the peace of mind.

In my opinion, getting the PowerTrain warranty is enough. In my case, that's be
cause; anything that needed repairing in the interior (sunroof, windows, doors,
 etc.) I could do myself. I just didn't want to mess with the engine and such.

Plus I think the extra 3 years of 24-hour RoadSide Assistance must be worthe so
meting. I opted for the 5 year plan for $375.

Thomas


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103143
From: yjkim@ton.berkeley.edu (Young-jin Kim)
Subject: '89 Toyota Camry - $9000

89' Toyota Camry LE 4 dr sedan
AC AT power windows and locks
53k miles, asking $9000.
Pls call 510-526-8248 or send e-mail to this account.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103144
From: tcora@pica.army.mil (Tom Coradeschi)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) wrote:
> 
> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
> >wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
> >>>
> >>>Remember roads in America are NOT designed for speeds above 80 meaning they
> >                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>>would be safe at 55-65. Roads like the Autobahn are smoother, straiter,
> >>>wider and slightly banked. 
> >>
> >>	Well, that's news.  Before 1975 the speed limit on Texas highways
> >>was 75.  The speed limit on the New Jersey Turnpike (I-95) was 70.  There
> >>were no speed limits in Nevada or Montana.
> >
> >I guess I wasn't clear enough here. I said the roads WERE designed for 
> >speeds of 80 or so and still be safe. The current 55-65 will add a saftey
> >margin.
> >
> 
> Actually, the roads were designated as safe at 80 when they were built
> in the 1950's taking into account the kinds of cars then available. The
> number would be much higher today because the cars, tires and just about
> everything else has imprivoved a lot.

Except the drivers.

                  tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil
 
   "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."
                                                    --gene spafford, 1992

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103145
From: kchong@mothra.nts.uci.edu (Keith Chong)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti

In article <1993Apr23.105438.3245@msus1.msus.edu> w00026@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
>First off, the correct spelling of Nissan's luxury automobile division
>is "Infiniti" not "Infinity."  I would also like to clear up the question
>of what kind of engines power Lexus and Infiniti automobiles, since a
>person had remarked in earlier posts that most Lexus and Infiniti models
>had V6 engines, while at the same time saying that several of each
>manufacturer used V8 engines.
>
>Lexus:
>  LS400- V8
>  GS300- V6
>  ES300- V6
>  SC400- V8
>  SC300- V6

The GS300 and SC300 have an inline 6.

>
>Infiniti:
>  Q45- V8
>  J30- V6
>  G20- inline 4 (I must admit that I cannot remeber for sure here)

Inline 4 is correct.

>
>I hope this helps.
>
>-BSB

Keith

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103146
From: brian@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Brian Donnell)
Subject: VAL-1 vs. BEL966STi (was Re: Best Radar Detector)

In article <1993Apr22.204921.12644@convex.com>, tobias@convex.com (Allen
Tobias) wrote:
> 
> I live in the backyard of the folks who make the Stalker radar system. The
> Valentine 1 has saved me many, many, many times from the stealth revenue
> enhancement traps of the local area. I have had all the major brand detectors,
> and, IMHO, nothing else even comes close to the V1!
> 

I hadn't heard of the Valentine-1 before. Car&Driver and other auto
magazines
recommend BEL detectors.  I was considering their latest - the 966STi -
which picks up Super Wideband Ka and Laser as well.  It also avoids 
radar detector detectors (although I really don't care about this since I
doubt I'll be driving in Virginia anytime soon - or have any other states
also made detectors iilegal?)

How does the Valentine-1 compare with the BEL products?

Brian Donnell

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103147
From: mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett)
Subject: Re: V4 engines

In <pwe.735571191@slipknot.mit.edu> pwe@slipknot.mit.edu (Paul W. Emery) writes:

>On the subject of the V4,Ford in the UK used V4 engines exstensively in
>their Ford Transit vans.This brings back a memory from the seventies.I
>played in a band at the time and for something like 180 pounds four of
>us bought a 1967 "tranny" to cart the gear around in.It was in terrible
>shape (cosmetically) because it's last owner was a pig farmer.We spent
>days cleaning it up and putting in a partition and more seating but 'til
>the day it died everytime you turned on the fan to the defroster dried
>pig shit came flying out the vents!!!.
>    Back to the engine if I remember right it was a 1600cc V4 and that
>thing could haul,we could fill it with equipment and up to 8 people and
>it went like a bat out of hell,of course there were no pollution controls
>on the engine and the gas was leaded and higher octane than we get now.
>    When the mechanical fuel pump quit we put in an electric one from a 
>Morris Minor that worked great. Ah fond memories.

Saab Sonnet III too I believe.


>-- 
>pwe@slipknot.mit.edu                 "I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
>Paul W. Emery                       Ron Nasty--The Rutles
>M I T Magnet Lab Cambridge Mass U.S.A.   
>COSTELLOBEATLESSPINALTAPFAWLTYTOWERSMUTTSAVENGERSSTARTREK.TNGENGLANDRUTLES  
-- 
/-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-\
| |\/|  __   -=> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu <=- (mliggett@iugold.bitnet  |
* |  |/\||   'junk' collector, toys R us kid, antiauthoritarian, and fan of   *
| frogs, iguanas, and other herps.					      |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103148
From: n3022@cray.com (Jim Knoll)
Subject: Thanks - '86 Nova Advice

I want to thank all the people that responded to my post
a few weeks ago about buying an '86 Chev Nova with over
100,000 mi.

I decided to buy the car and have had it for about a month.
I replaced the front brake pads and changed the oil.  So far
no problems have surfaced.

I received many suggestions and encouragement on this
purchase and figured a late "thank you" was better than none.

Thanks to all!

Jim

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103149
From: mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In <1993Apr23.132214.6755@cs.tulane.edu> finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil writes:

>In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
>eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>>
>>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>>
>>
>>eliot

>Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
>really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
>"underscore 4")?

horizontally opposed 4.
or 'boxer'
great idea, actually..
smooth running; low center of gravity..
also used in some honda gullwings, corvairs, porsches (others?)
...

>Kenneth
>finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil




-- 
/-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-=*=-\
| |\/|  __   -=> mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu <=- (mliggett@iugold.bitnet  |
* |  |/\||   'junk' collector, toys R us kid, antiauthoritarian, and fan of   *
| frogs, iguanas, and other herps.					      |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103150
From: tflynn@encore.com (Tonya R. Flynn)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

In article <C5unFJ.2pA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Tom Wetzel <twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>In article <1r1tth$b9i@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Andrew A. Spencer,
>aas7@po.CWRU.Edu writes:
>>>: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
>
>I was about to recommend you consider a targa top over a convertible but, 
>DREW made the point very well.  When my wife and I were in our 20s we
>did the convertible thing with Triumphs.  Now in our mid-40s, we still
>appreciate the open air but prefer targa types.  There is much less wind
>noise, objects/papers blowing around, foreign objects getting into the
>car and one still has almost all the advantages of the convertible.  
>

My last car had T-Tops (BIG T-Tops).  My current car is a convertible.
IMHO, if you're after that 'convertible feel', T-Tops, open-top,
sunroofs, moonroofs, whatever, just don't cut it.  There's no
substitute for a convertible.  If you're not after that sun beating
down on you, the wind in your hair and teeth, the flopsum and
jetsum getting in the car and the noises associated with the
whooshing of the wind, you're not after that 'convertible feel'.
So go with something with at least a hole above the driver but don't call
it a convertible.

And I do wonder how those targa tops would compare against my roll
bar in a rollover situation.  Of course, I'd rather not test it
in MY car.  I, too, am in my early 40s.

A convertible--accept no substitute.

                                           |
Tonya (I'd rather be Sailing) Flynn       /|\      6901 W. Sunrise Blvd.
(305/797-2446)                           / | \     Ft. Lauderdale, Fl 33313
"Let's just punch through that        ----------   UUCP:  uunet!gould!tflynn
sand bar"--Crew of Natty Dread          ------     INTERNET: tflynn@encore.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103151
From: kenw@netaxs.com (Kenneth Warren)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

And here's my two cents:

The best convertible for the money, IMO, is the Miata. Yes, it's small, but
you're buying it as a second car, I hope, so you don't need the cargo room
of a big car. It's got enough power for fun, it's RWD like a sports car
ought to be (I'm gonna regret that :-{) and the top, while manual, operates
like a dream. 30 seconds and one hand to lower, and not much longer to raise.

The targa-type cars are nice, but they're not real convertibles.

--

*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
  Ken Warren             |The secrets of a good life are early nights, good
                         |food, excercise, and clean living...
  E-Mail: kenw@netaxs.com|But the secrets of a happy life are late nights,
                         |wild parties, kinky sex, and junk food!
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103152
From: hamachi@adobe.com (Gordon Hamachi)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

I came across this interesting information in my local public library while  
researching minivans.  It is the dealer price and the retail price for a  
minivan I am thinking about purchasing.  Someone told me that the number for  
base price was slightly lower than the current price, but this should still  
give you some idea about pricing and how much you can negotiate.


Mercury Villager GS
                          Dealer     Retail
Base Price                $14688     16504
Air Conditioning             729       857
Rear Defroster               143       168
Calif. Emissions              87       102
7 Passenger Seating          282       332
AM/FM Radio (no cassette)    STD       STD
Automatic Transmission       STD       STD
Anti-lock brakes             STD       STD
Destination                  540       540

The total dealer cost is $16469
The total retail price is $18467



Nissan Quest XE
                          Dealer     Retail
Base Price                $15212     17545
Air Conditioning             STD       STD
Rear Defroster               STD       STD
Calif. Emissions              59        70
7 Passenger Seating          STD       STD
AM/FM Cassette               STD       STD
Automatic Transmission       STD       STD
Anti-lock brakes             593       700
Destination                  540       540

The total dealer cost is $16404
The total retail price is $18855

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103153
From: wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions

Shazad Barlas (jkjec@westminster.ac.uk) wrote:
: To wheelspin in an auto, you keep the gear in N - gas it - then stick the 
: gear in D... I've never tried this but am sure it works - but does this screw 
: up the autobox? We're having a bit of a debate about it here...

I've known more people to leave their rear ends in pieces doing this, 
especially if they have reasonable power to transmit and good traction
on the road surface.

You're better off powerbraking.

Wes Fujii
________________________________________________________________
      ___   ___ ___ 
     /  /  /  //  /
    /  /__/  //  /    A real motor is an Oldsmobile Rocket 455
   /  HURST //  /     "This is NOT the new generation of Olds"
  /  /  /  //  /_______ 
 /__/  /__//  //  ___  \
          /  //  /   \  \       Wes "BANZAI" Fujii
         /  //  /OLDS/  /          Boise, Idaho
        /  / \  \___/  /      wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
       /__/   \_______/ 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103154
From: rvkl60@email.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes)
Subject: Re: locking lugnuts / tire rebalance??

In article <1993Apr22.145940.1@skcla.monsanto.com> mas@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
>If you put a locking lugnut on your tires, do you need to have your
>tires rebalanced??
>
>John Mas
>
>
>E-Mail Address     ::     MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM
>

Well, it depends on what kind of locking lugnuts you have.  My previous
car had locking lugnuts that weighed about 2.5oz. more than the others. 
The locking lugnuts were factory equipment, and according to the factory
service manual, after tire balancing the technician/mechanic was
supposed to put a 1/2 oz. counterweight on the rim opposite the locking
nut.  I always had vibration problems with those stupid lugnuts since no
one ever did the service correctly. I eventually got rid of the locking
lugnuts and replaced them with the standard lugnuts.  Unfortunately, I
found out about the counterweighting technique 6 months after I got rid
of the locking nuts. :-(

My present car, a Saturn SC, has locking lugnuts that I bought at the
dealer and are made specifically for the Saturn.  They have been made to
be exactly the same weight as the non-locking lugnuts (said so on the
package and I verified it myself).  I haven't had any vibration problems
with the tires at all (due to the nuts) in 12,000 of ownership.  I did
have some other vibration problems, but it was due to a poor job of tire
balancing.

Tom

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103155
From: alter@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Eric Alter)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <C5xtp7.MtB@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr22.192652.3032@virginia.edu> jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blade Runner") writes:
|> >I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
|> >that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
|> >will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
|> >way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
|> >100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
|> >Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
|> >there hear anything about it recently?
|> 
|> 
|> If everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but "re-
|> skinning" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications.
|> And the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job
|> of it.  
|> 
|> The "new" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car.
|> 
|> Jeff
|> 
|> 
|> 


What???  I heard there was a new engine slated for the mustang...something
like 280hp  (ok, it was from one of their other lines...)...

-- 

Eric Alter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103156
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: SOME TAURUS MISC. MAINT.

-> 4) Are there any fairly cheap (<$150 or so) ways to increase the
-> performance on this car? Unfortunately, a Taurus is not exactly a
-> muscle car, so I'm looking for ways to increase the performance.

There is a company in Florida that sells computer chips that supposedly
get a few HP and Torque out of the 3.0. Don't have the address, but saw
the ad in Hot Rod and some other car magazines. Also, you could open up
the exhaust (get an exhaust with a larger i.d.)

Hope this helps. If you find anything else, let me know. I've got a 1990
Taurus L.

George Howell
george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org
                                 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103157
From: qwerty@tunisia.ssc.gov (Kris Schludermann)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

In article <1993Apr23.010311.23110@ra.oc.com>, lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) writes:
|> 
|> Shifting without the clutch on a transmission with syncros can and will cause
|> transmission damage, the only question being how long it  takesto grenade
|> something (for the trans in my 87  Pulsar SE, it was  about 3-5k miles, but
|> it had a weak  tranny in the first place).

Please explain the why of this. I have over 200k miles usage of clutchless
shift and no problems.

krispy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103158
From: andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?


	"The Villager-Quest seem like the best of the Cravan/Voyager
	copies to come along since the Mazda MPV."

I'll agree about villager but not MPV -- it's so small that I'd class
it as a SUV with an extra seat shoehorned in.  To get any rear cargo
space, you shove the back seat up against the middle seat, eliminating
*all* leg room.

Back to the Villager ...

	"Only the price is controversial."

And the use of attack belts instead of 3-point belts.  That killed it
for me.

  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103159
From: seove@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (ERIC OVERTON)
Subject: Shifting without clutch while...

Is it ok to take the car out of gear without using the clutch
(while the car is turned off)?

Thanks in advance.

Please reply by mail.

Eric

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103160
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?

In article <10262@ceylon.gte.com>, hhd0@harvey.gte.com (Horace Dediu) writes:
|> In article <nataraja.735341980@opal12>, nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan) writes:
|> |> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
|> |> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
|> |> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).
|> |> 
|> |> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
|> |> something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
|> |> diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
|> |> install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
|> |> of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
|> |> different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
|> |> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
|> |> gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...

|> This really bugs me.  The emissions of diesels are the cleanest of any vechicle,
|> but they are considered so polluting that they are banned in passenger cars
|> in California.  What a bunch of crap.  Diesel is the fuel of choice for 
|> enviromental benefit in Europe while here it's illegal for the same reason.
|> 
|> The particulates are nothing but carbon.  They are just an annoyance at worst.
|> Nothing beats the diesel cycle for efficiency and emissions, torque or engine
|> durability.  It's also cheaper.

Diesels fall into the same emissions mythology as alcohol fuels.  The main reason
they are considered "cleaner" is because they are better at the emissions we
actually measure and regulate.  But they also contribute additional emissions
which have long been determined to be as harmful, but no suitable control or
limits have been defined.  

Current evidence is pointing to most visible smog actually being diesel emissions
and suspended particles and less of a photo-chemical reaction.  Diesel particulates
are now becoming a major concern in decreased lung capacity.  And alcohols emit
signifcantly more aldehydes (a known carcinigen) than gasoline.  The evidence
is mounting that while we have been beating the gasoline engine to death, we may
have been ignoring the effects of the alternatives.

And anyone who thinks diesels are so great, should go and spend a few hours in
rush hour traffic in some cities in Europe.  There the stench of the diesels is
awful and it can even burn the eyes.  

Diesels being clean is only relative to our current standards. 

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103161
From: dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Gauge)
Subject: Choice of gauges

If you had free reign to design your own instrument cluster, which
gauges would you choose to have beyond the basic set?

I consider the basic set to be:

	- tach

	- coolant temp (or cylinder head temp for air-cooled engines)
	- oil pressure
	- amps

	- speedo
	- fuel

others that are nice to have:

	- volts (maybe this should be in the basic set)
	- vacuum/boost

I can think of a few others, but what are your ideas and why?

-Dave

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103162
From: dreitman@oregon.uoregon.edu (Daniel R. Reitman, Attorney to Be)
Subject: Re: legal car buying problems

In article <1993Apr20.143930.13144@chpc.org>,
 rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes...
>In article <9285.27317@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM>
> bob@runway.swdc.stratus.com (Bob Hutson) writes:
>>After agreeing to terms I signed the contract and drove home in my new
>>car.  Later that same night I noticed that the terms in the were
>>different from the terms I had agreed to.  (I made the stupid mistake
>>of not checking everything on the contract).  This all happened last
>>Saturday.

>>I have heard that there is a "cooling-off" law allowing me three days
>>to reconsider the contract.  Is this true?  Can anyone point me to the
>>law?  The transaction happened at the dealership, if it matters.

>This cooling off period applies only in certain situations - lik ewhen
>you are solicited at home.  I also think the cooling off period ends
>if you actually accept the merchandise.

>If this were not the case, any car buyer would have the right to return
>a slightly used, highly devalued, car 2 days after buying it.  Yeah - 
>that's the trick - if I want to buy a new car, I'd have a firend buy 
>& return one, then go in and negotiate a better deal on a pre-owned
>used car.

FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY

On the other hand, if it can be proven, it's possible the changed 
terms could be thrown out.  The question will be whether the 
agreement contains a merger clause.  See UCC @ 2-202 (parol 
evidence).  If we're talking about warranties, then, of course, 
UCC @ 2-316 should be looked at.

But we have so little information that none of us can say anything 
conclusive.

						Daniel Reitman

"The Uniform Commercial Code protects the innocent purchaser, but it is not a 
shield for the sly conniver, the blindly naive, or the hopelessly gullible."
Atlas Auto Rental Corp. v. Weisberg, 54 Misc. 2d 168, 172, 281 N.Y.S.2d 400, 
405 (N.Y. City Civ. Ct. 1967).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103163
From: joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1r8ufk$fr7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. 
Spencer) writes:
>
>In a previous article, finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil () says:
>
>>In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
>>eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>>>
>>>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>eliot
>>
>>Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
>>really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
>>"underscore 4")?
>
>i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
>(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)
>DREW

I've always heard them referred to "horizontally opposed"...

Joe

-- 
Joseph Staudt, Telxon Corp. | joes@telxon.com
P.O. Box 5582               | "Usenet is like Tetris for people who still
Akron, OH  44334-0582       |  remember how to read."
(216) 867-3700 x3522        |           -- J. Heller

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103164
From: frankb@sad.hp.com (Frank Ball)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

& >I'm not familiar with the trannies used in Winston Cup, but in the trans-am
& >cars I've played with the  transmissions were the racing variety, with
& >dog clutches instead of sychros.  In a transmission with dog clutches, the
& >gears are always  engaged with each other and moving the dog clutches
& >engages the gears to the shafts.  Motorcycle transmissions are the same way.
& >Shifting without the clutch on a transmission with syncros can and will cause
& >transmission damage, the only question being how long it  takesto grenade
& >something (for the trans in my 87  Pulsar SE, it was  about 3-5k miles, but
& >it had a weak  tranny in the first place).
& 
& just out of curiosity, how is this "dog clutch" any different from a synchro
& transmission.  What you described SOUNDS the same to me.  In fact, what little
& i've studied on trannies, the instructor referred to the synchros as "dogs"
& and said they were synonymous.  The gears are always meshed in a synchronized
& gearbox, and you slip the synchro gears back and forth by shifting. Or at least,
& that is what i was taught.  Explain, por favour?

Motorcycle transmissions don't have synchros.  The engagment dogs are very
corse and sloppy.  There are maybe 6-10 teeth (dogs) on the side of the
gears that engage the next gear over as the forks slide the gears back
and forth.  To shift:  start to apply pressure at the same time the
clutch is pulled (the clutch is a hand lever) and shift quickly.  If 
you try a slow lazy shift it will grind, you just have to pop it into
the next gear before it has a chance to grind.  There isn't a neutral
between gears (obviously there is, but you can't select it with the
shifter) so double clutching is not a possibility.  "speed shifting"
(which is what I have always heard "clutchless shifting" called) works
pretty well for upshifts with some practice, but I usually use the
clutch-especially for the lower gears.

I think auto (as in automobile) trannys are similar, except that the
engagment dogs are very fine, with no slop.  And the addition of
syncho rings.  The gear teeth are always engaged in auto transmissions
that are synchronized, but may not be in non-synchro gears (reverse
and sometimes first).  

--
Frank Ball   1UR-M          frankb@sad.hp.com    (707) 794-4168 work,
Hewlett Packard             (707) 794-3844 fax,  (707) 538-3693 home
1212 Valley House Drive     IT175, XT350, Seca 750, '62 F-100, PL510
Rohnert Park CA 94928-4999  KC6WUG, LAW, AMA, Dod #7566, I'm the NRA.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103165
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

In article <1r8uckINNcmf@gap.caltech.edu> wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su) writes:


> Path: eclipse!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!wen-king
> From: wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su)
> Newsgroups: rec.autos
> Date: 23 Apr 1993 14:27:32 GMT
> Organization: California Institute of Technology
> Lines: 9
> References: <1r72ejINNk2j@gap.caltech.edu> <1r7cr2INNvar@sumax.seattleu.edu>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: neptune.cs.caltech.edu
> Keywords: Mercury, Villager, minivan, van, cars, Jittlov
> 
> In article <1r7cr2INNvar@sumax.seattleu.edu> smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris) writes:
> >The Villager-Quest seem like the best of the Cravan/Voyager copies to
> <come along since the Mazda MPV.  The NISSAN MAXIMA engine paired with
> >the MAXIMA 4 speed Auto Trans should be an excellent drive train, and
> <the rest of the vehicle seems well engineered.  Only the price is
> >controversial.
> 
> Hmm.  The last time I checked, Villager/Quest does not have a Maxima
> engine, and is very much under powered for its weight.
 
Same engine, different state of tune (less hp and maybe more torque). My
friend at work regularly takes 6 people in his and it seems to haul around
just fine.

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103166
From: davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance ...

I got numerous complaints about Geico, and several helpful pointers to
other (good) insurance companies.  I have decided to go with the Erie
Insurance Exchange, which seems to combine high ratings from the net
and Consumer Reports with low rates (at least for me).  Thanks for all
the responses.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103167
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?


I have tested both vehicles (identically
equipped), both for week-long periods.
Curiously (and consider these are test
vehicles), I found the Mercury higher
in build quality than the Nissan.

Either choice is good, but beware that
I did not experience reasonable mileage
with the V6.  Average city driving was
<15mpg, with about 21 avg. on the highway.

Both were optioned to the hilt (the Nissan
had leather!).  The Villager was in the
$24K range and the Nissan was over $26K.

bob


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103168
From: gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)   

>>Dont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake>
>>cars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the j>udgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one.  

>just to satiate my curiosity, why would this make you the stupid one?  It seems
>to me, everybody SHOULD be aware enough of what is going on.  You do not need

I couldnt agree more.  That is how it SHOULD work. People should also ALWAYS see motorcycles too.

I CONSTANTLY scan behind me (I have one of those wink mirrors) and two outside mirrors.  I actually spend just as much time checking my six (cops you know).

I still get caught off guard every now and then. 


Maybe I didnt word it right the first time.  What I was trying to say was that if you plan to blow by somebody at a very HIGH speed differential and you assume you are safe because the guy sees you, you are stupid (of course, it depends on the circumstances).  I have had some VERY scary instances when I assumed this and I dont think all of the fault was the other guy (now if he was going 25 in a 55 thats a whole different story)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103169
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: Dumb options list


In a previous article, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) says:

>The idea here is to list pointless options. You know, stuff you
>(can) get on a car that has no earthly use?

1) a fitting that allows you to generate household current with
the engine running, and plug ins in the trunk, engine compartment
and cabin.

Feel free to add on...

Regards, Charles
x
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person

:-)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103170
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)


In a previous article, gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) says:

>>>Dont get me wrong, I love to drive in the left lane fast but when I overtake>
>>>cars who are on the right, I slow down a tad bit. If I were to rely on the j>udgement of the other car, to recognize the speed differential, I would be the stupid one.  
>
>>just to satiate my curiosity, why would this make you the stupid one?  It seems
>>to me, everybody SHOULD be aware enough of what is going on.  You do not need
>
>I couldnt agree more.  That is how it SHOULD work. People should also ALWAYS see motorcycles too.
>
>I CONSTANTLY scan behind me (I have one of those wink mirrors) and two outside mirrors.  I actually spend just as much time checking my six (cops you know).
>
>I still get caught off guard every now and then. 
>
>
>Maybe I didnt word it right the first time.  What I was trying to say was that if you plan to blow by somebody at a very HIGH speed differential and you assume you are safe because the guy sees you, you are stupid (of course, it depends on the circumstances).  I have had some VERY scary instances when I assumed this and I dont think all of the fault was the other guy (now if he was going 25 in a 55 thats a whole different story)

ok.  I can agree to this, because, as we have both proved, what is ideally
SUPPOSED to happen, isn't always.  And even though i'm rearely the one doing
the passing, i don't see where it makes you stupid, but i agree, that if you 
think you are SAFE, because the other guy is SUPPOSED to have been paying 
attention, then yes, you are just as dumb as the other(maybe dumber?)
hasta
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103171
From: laszlo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Tyson F Nuss)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

From article <1pq6i2$a1f@news.ysu.edu>, by ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker):
> 
> Cup holders (driving is an importantant enough undertaking)
> Ashtrays (smokers seem to think it's just fine to use the road)

	Oh, sure -- sorry, but the absence of a cupholder is not gonna
discourage anyone from eating/drinking in the car;  let's just put one
in anyway, so at least they don't have the further distraction of trying
not to spill it.
	Furthermore, you are obviously not a smoker; on a cold day, it
takes a certain skill to toss a butt out of a cracked window without having
it wind-deflect into the back seat.  Also, just 'cause some smokers use
the window, doesn't mean all of us do.
	This reminds me of *one* pleasant feature in the otherwise
ergonomically-hellish interior of the Alfa Romeo Milano:  you could ash
your cigarette without even removing your hand from the wheel; the 'tray
was *right*there*.

> Fake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.
> Any gold trim.

	These, I will agree, are abominations, right along with the fake
continental spare-tire kit -- it's sad watching those little old ladies 
try to load their groceries into the trunk with that huge tire-medallion
in the way.
	Most pitiful fake convertible top: on a "Cadillac" Cimarron, with
all the chrome door trim still visible -- not fooling *anyone*.
Of course, there was that Hyundai Excel I once saw...

%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%
___    A      laszlo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
| |   {*}     Redhead Afficionado Extraordinaire   *and*
| |  __V__    Little Canadia's Minister of Fine Tobaccos
|_|o_|%%%|0_  Cigaret brands sampled: 55 import/luxury, 17 handrolling
   |       |
   |       |  These opinions are not necessarily mine (or mine, either).
   |_______| -----> Can anyone bum me a .sig?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103172
From: laszlo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Tyson F Nuss)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all tim

> In article <1993Mar29.161044.1@uncavx.unca.edu>, bwillard@uncavx.unca.edu
> wrote:
>> 
>> 8. Saab 900 - ignition is on floor!?!

	Actually, this started as a great idea.  Before steering-column
locks became popular, Saab installed a *gearshift* lock -- put the car
in reverse, remove the key, and the car *stays* in reverse!
	Also, suppose you get into your car, and a thug comes up and
demands your keys at gunpoint.  You hand them over, he gets in, and
HAS NO IDEA WHERE TO PUT THE KEY!  At this, he will run away (or perhaps
shoot you anyway  %-}).  I heard this actually happened somewhere...
	Btw, I hear that the Saab 900's new successor will have the
ignition on the console, between the seats, where it belongs.

%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%
___    A      laszlo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
| |   {*}     Redhead Afficionado Extraordinaire   *and*
| |  __V__    Little Canadia's Minister of Fine Tobaccos
|_|o_|%%%|0_  Cigaret brands sampled: 55 import/luxury, 17 handrolling
   |       |
   |       |  These opinions are not necessarily mine (or mine, either).
   |_______| -----> Can anyone bum me a .sig?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103173
From: infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew  Infante)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <1993Apr15.163411.27443@dsd.es.com> bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Woody" Moss) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.160922.8797@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>|> 
>|> In article <1993Apr15.135514.29579@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
>|> (ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes:
>|> 
>|> >You can avoid these problems entirely by installing an oil drain valve in
>|> >place of the bolt.  I have one on both of my cars.  There have been no
>|> >leaks in 210,000 miles (combined miles on both cars).
>|> 
>|> Yes, but then someone would have no problem draining your oil in a parking lot.
>|> 
>|> all they have to do is reach underneath, turn a valve, and forget the trip 
>|> home.
>|> But there is less likelyhood they have a wrench with them.
>|> 
>|> I personally recommend, installing a 'special' locking drain plug to keep
>|> vandals away. :---)
>|> 
>|> steve
>
>I was worried about someone stealing my oil once also. I finally 
>decided to just have my drain plug welded shut. It works great !
>I figure that when I add three or four quarts when the oil light
>comes on every month or so that it's just as good or better than
>the old wives tale of changing the oil AND filter every 3000 miles.
>Works for me, I must say. 


Either I've just fallen for this, or you guys
are _really_ paranoid!

You're actually worried about somebody stealing 
your oil?

C'mon, you think a vandal'll do that?!

That's absolutely ridiculous!

Besides, how hard is it to get under the car to 
change the oil?

I can say from experience on the cars that I've driven and
changed the oil on, my Mazda 323 is pretty much a pain, but
once you've done it once, you don't forget how, and it
gets easier.

I can't imagine any other cars are much worse than mine.

-- 
Andy Infante  | You can listen to what everybody says, but the fact remains   |
'71 BMW R60/5 | that you've got to get out there and do the thing yourself.   | 
DoD #2426     |                             -- Joan Sutherland                | 
==============| My opinions, dammit, have nothing to do with anyone else!!!   | 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103174
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: FOR SALE: '91 Toyota Camry $9500

1991 Toyota Camry for sale:
    Deluxe package
    5 speed
    grey
    power windows
    power door locks
    AM/FM cassette
    power steering
    power brakes
    70K highway miles
    Excellent condition

    $9500                             Rob Fusi
                                      rwf2@lehigh.edu
    (609) 397-2147 after 7pm          E-mail me for more info...
    (914) 335-6984 day (until 5)
    Ask for Bob Fusi

                                    
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103175
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <buck.735568034@granite> buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck) writes:
>(unless you live in an area that gets frequent damaging hail storms)

	Nahhh, only about once a week March through May...  And sometimes
in the fall. :-)




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103176
From: pantera@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (doddek david j)
Subject: Re: Slick 50, any good?

mad9a@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Michael A. Davis) writes:


>     Chances are that this has been discussed to death already, and
>if so could someone who has kept the discussion mail me or direct me 
>to an archive site. Basically,
>I am just wondering if Slick 50 really does all it says that it does.
>And also, is there any data to support the claim.  Thanks for any info.

>Mike Davis

I don't have any written data but I know what I have experienced.  I use  
S-50 in everything including my lawnmowers.  In my car it smoothed the idle
and reduced the operating temp by 5 degrees.  I havent used it long enough 
to test for wear, but some people I know have.   
 A farmer that lives near by used to have to overhaul his big deisel tractors
at least every other year if not every year.  Since he has been using S-50
he has went 5 years without an overhaul.

Also a friend at a machine shop has in the past rebuilt engines with 200K
miles on them because the coustomer thought it was time.  These coustomers
had ran S-50 since almost new.  It was found when measuring the internals
of the engine that they showed only about the amount of wear that would be
expected of 30K miles not 200K.

In my opinion it works.
______________________________________________________________________________
Beware! The cat is on the prowel     | Disclamer: Hey I'm a student,
A 1974 Cat hungry as hell.           | I don't need one.
detomaso Pantera EFI twin turbo	     |              David J. Doddek
With liscence to fly  "IT FLIES"     | UofI pantera@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
______________________________________________________________________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103177
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr23.144326.9535@ctp.com> bpita@ctp.com (Bob Pitas) writes:
>In article <1r1d62$d6s@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:
>>rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
>>>How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
>>>agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?
>>
>>Hear, hear!  Thanks, Robbie.
>>
>>You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as
>>George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,
>>who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.
>>
>>
>>On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers
>>for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be.
>>Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do
>>with people of all ages.
>
>Well, this isn't the right group for this, but I have to say that I don't
>think violence is any more socially acceptable now, by any means.  How
>can you say that when we used to have of pistol-toting gunslingers as 
>heros, or even gangland thugs being considered romantic.  Do you think
>our great grandparent got yelled at by their parents for playing cowboys
>and indians?  I don't think so.  That behavior was somewhat encouraged
>back then, in fact.
>I think the only difference between now and then is that nowadays, when
>some teenager kills another one in a classroom in California, we here 
>about it in MA the same day.  Back in the old days, they'd never hear 
>about something like that, period. 

Yeah, People act really shocked about violence, as though it were new
to our species...

What about the holocaust? The crusades? The Salem witch trials? The
religious persecutions of the middle-ages? 

What about violent acts carried out in the name of religion all over
the world? What about the early Christians put to death by the Romans?
The Jews persecuted by Christians?

There are a lot more humans today than there have ever been. I do not
know the stats, but there are far more people on the planet than there
were 2 or 3 hundred years ago! The per capita acts of violence are
probably not significantly different than they were a hundred or a
thousand years ago!

There is nothing new about violence.

rf

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103178
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <C5wpHp.5KL@megatest.com> alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung) writes:
>V8's, V10's, and V12's.....man...can you imagine doing
>a valve adjustment on one that has multiple non-hydraulic
>valves in each cylinder??!!
>
>aaron

I was at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum the other day and one of
their VERY early winners was 4 valves per cylinder (and either front
wheel drive or all wheel drive, I think front wheel drive) and that
was in 1914!

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103179
From: root@convex.com (Superuser)
Subject: Re: VAL-1 vs. BEL966STi (was Re: Best Radar Detector)

In article <brian-230493093710@hotspare.arc.nasa.gov> brian@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Brian Donnell) writes:
>In article <1993Apr22.204921.12644@convex.com>, tobias@convex.com (Allen
>Tobias) wrote:
>> 
>> I live in the backyard of the folks who make the Stalker radar system. The
>> Valentine 1 has saved me many, many, many times from the stealth revenue
>> enhancement traps of the local area. I have had all the major brand detectors,
>> and, IMHO, nothing else even comes close to the V1!
>> 
>
>I hadn't heard of the Valentine-1 before. Car&Driver and other auto
>magazines
>recommend BEL detectors.  I was considering their latest - the 966STi -
>which picks up Super Wideband Ka and Laser as well.  It also avoids 
>radar detector detectors (although I really don't care about this since I
>doubt I'll be driving in Virginia anytime soon - or have any other states
>also made detectors iilegal?)
>
>How does the Valentine-1 compare with the BEL products?
>
>Brian Donnell

No comparison. The BEL is just a hooped up wideband Escort like detector.
No directional indicators, no Bogey counter, no radar signature analysis, no
remote display option, not as sensitive, not as well built. 
Had it, sent it back!

AT

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103180
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Saturn Extended Warranty

In article <1r7n42INNie1@shelley.u.washington.edu> gaia@carson.u.washington.edu (I/We are Gaia) writes:
>In article <1r6bqgINN4ei@roundup.crhc.uiuc.edu> vivek@crhc.uiuc.edu (Vivek Chickermane) writes:
>>ADVICE on SATURN EXTENDED WARRANTY
>>-----------------------------------
>>
>>  I placed an order for a Saturn SL2 and it is expected next week. The
>>Saturn retailer gave me some pamphlets about the extended warranty plan
>>and I have been thinking about it. Being a first time new car buyer, I am
>>seeking advice from veterans esp. those who have bought Saturns lately.
>>FYI, I have listed some of the features of the Saturn extended warranty plan.
>>The car comes with a 3 years/36,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty.
>>
>>Plan I
>>-------
>>Extended Powertrain Coverage
>>
>>Covers the cost of repairs to
>>  * Engine
>>  * Transaxle
>>  * Front wheel drive
>>* 24 hour roadside assistance program
>>
>>Coverage Term (years/miles)
>>
>>Deductible     5/60,000     6/75,000     6/100,000
>>----------     --------     --------     ---------
>>$50            $375          $550         $725
>>

i say extended warranties are a ripoff, high-profit item for dealers.
but what i really want to point out here is that you are not buying
5/60k, 6/75k, 6/100k.  you get 3yr/36k *free*.  so what you are buying is
2/24k, 3/39k, 3/64k.  keep that in mind when you look at the cost vs. coverage.
another point is that many car companies routinely fix car problems that are
out of warranty...why?  design/manufacturing defects that the company owns up
to, keeping customer happy, etc.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103181
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <93111.12475032HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>, John Foster <32HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:

|> I find this method much better myself, too, although I do really
|> hate it when the bolt finally comes loose and the wrench and my
|> hand both come crashing into my face.  After coming to, which is
|> about 15 minutes later, I change my clothes (because by this time
|> all the oil has drained *on* me), and ice my entire face and suck
|> down about 20 Tylenol to ease the pain.  Later in the day I then
|> proceed with refilling the engine oil.
|> 
|> It's just crazy how I try and change the oil on my cars in one
|> weekend---I go through about 3 bottles of Tylenol and 2 bags of ice.

Oh, that's not so bad. Every time I try to change the oil, I forget to
shut off the engine first. The hot oil comes out and scalds me, blinds
me, then the engine starts to overheat, and while I'm screaming in agony
and trying to crawl out from under the car, I grab the red hot exhaust
pipe and get third degree burns on my hands. My screams intensify as I
finally emerge from under the car, and I struggle to my feet in front of
the car, whereupon the radiator hose ruptures and sprays me with super
heated coolant. Then the engine seizes, but not before the cylinder head
explodes, piercing my flesh with fragments of red hot iron.

This happens every time. I'm starting to think I should pay the mechanic
$25 instead paying the hospital $250,000 and the dealer $25,000 for a new
car. This gets costly when you change the oil every 3000 miles.

- Toadface

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103182
From: davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott)
Subject: Re: Info/Opinions Wanted on Cars In this Article

In article <C5st37.HF3@ns1.nodak.edu> bell@plains.NoDak.edu (Robert Bell) writes:
>In article <1993Apr13.182100.26650@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>>In article <49071@fibercom.COM> rrg@rtp.fibercom.com (Rhonda Gaines) writes:
>>>
>>>I'm in the market for a new car.  Currently I own a '90 Mazda MX-6 DX
>>>which has served me just fine.  However, I'd like to get
>>>a 4-door car since I don't relish the thought of moving a carseat
>>>around in a 2-door car.  My criteria are: 4-door, a/c, am/fm cassette,
>>>quick acceleration, cruise control, decent rear seat legroom (my
>>>husband is a 6-footer).  It must also be under $20k
>>>preferably closer to the 11-15k range (which will probably rule out
>>>the Accord).  The '93 cars that have caught my eye are: Toyota Corolla, 
>>>Toyata Camry, Mazda 626, Pontiac Grand Am, Pontiac Grand Prix, 
>>>Honda Accord, (and Civic if it's roomy enough and still comes in a 
>>>4-door model), Hyundai Sonata, and maybe even a small Oldsmobile, 
>>>although not the Achieva.  All opinions, benchmarks,
>>>recommendations, etc. are welcome.

The Civic does still come in a 4 door model.  My wife and I looked
quite seriously at the 626, Prizm (Corolla), and Civic, as well as
some other cars.  Our impressions: all three seemed well built and had
the features we wanted - these are similar to the features you want
except for cruise control, and we want a manual transmission and are
considering anti-lock brakes.  I also hate automatic seatbelts and we
both think having an airbag is a plus.  In general, comfort and
performance were both significant.

Some specific +'s and -'s are listed below.

Mazda 626
 + very comfortable and roomy
 + can theoretically get ABS on DX model, though in practice this is
   hard to find
 + base price for base model includes numerous little things like:
   tach, variable speed wipers, rear defroster, 60/40 split folding rear seat
 - more expensive than many other cars listed below

Honda Civic
 + DX gets significantly better mileage than other cars listed here
 + comfortable front seat
 + adjustable seat belt mounting
 - no ABS without EX model (includes $1000's of other things like a sunroof)

Geo Prizm/Toyota Corolla
 - seats not very comfortable to us (your mileage may vary)
 + adjustable seat belt mounting
 + can get ABS without lots of other extras

Saturn
 + SL2 was quite comfortable, though SL1 less so
 - motorized attack belts

Dodge Spirit
   no real outstanding +'s, but seemed generally ok
 - rear seat does not fold down

Chevy Corsica
 + comes with ABS standard
 - lower "would you buy that car again" and safety ratings in
   Consumer Reports (than first 3 cars above)
 - suspension didn't feel as stiff as the others (this would be a +
   for some)

The Honda Accord and Toyota Camry were both more expensive than the
626, and in our minds, not significantly better.

We probably gave disproportionately low consideration to the "big 3",
due (a) to my wife's family's general dislike of Chrysler products,
(b) some unimpressive GM products owned by my parents and a housemate
of mine (c) the Taurus comes with automatic transmission, I find the
seat of the Tempo very uncomfortable, and the escort has attack belts
and no air bag.

We'll probably end up with a 626 - I saw a 626 DX with A/C and
cassette advertised for just under $12800 (Washington Post, April 14,
I think), and my local dealer says they can match that price.  I will
probably get the 626 (maybe tomorrow).  The main question in my mind
is whether or not I will have to do a "factory order" or "preference
order" to get one with ABS, and whether or not the dealership will
run the price up a lot if I do so.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103183
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Saturn Extended Warranty

In article <93113.123459U59985@uicvm.uic.edu> <U59985@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>I agree with Gaia. Even though the Saturn has proved to be a very reliable car
>so far, a little money spent now is worth the peace of mind.

this is an interesting point.  some people are not really buying the coverage,
they are buying 'peace of mind', marketing folks love selling that.  i suggest
that people *choose* to not engage their minds in peaceless worry rather than
buying that 'peace of mind'.
>
>In my opinion, getting the PowerTrain warranty is enough. In my case, that's be
>cause; anything that needed repairing in the interior (sunroof, windows, doors,
> etc.) I could do myself. I just didn't want to mess with the engine and such.

you'd be surprised how much the little knick-knack stuff can cost?  what if 
your a/c goes out?  steering rack??  don't get me wrong...i'm against all
extended warranties...they are a ripoff.
>
>Plus I think the extra 3 years of 24-hour RoadSide Assistance must be worthe so
>meting. I opted for the 5 year plan for $375.
extra 3 yrs?  you realize the first 3yr/36k is free warranty that comes with 
the car.
>
>Thomas
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103184
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

In article <1r0vk6INNaft@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM writes:
>>I too was puzzled by this obvious untruth. What I think is going on is that
>>Nissan claims that the Altima is "the best selling new car namelplate in
>>the US" (I think I have this near verbatim). Lee Iaccoca's statistics
>>dept. would have been proud of that sentence.
>
>Note that the Corolla/Prism are also new designs... but hey are not new 
>"nameplates."  I guess Nissan doesn't even sell as many Altimas as
>Toyota does Corollas, or there would be no "nameplate" qualifier.

But waiiiiiit, isn't Nissan officially registering the car as far as
government paperwork goes, Nissan Stanza Altima, to avoid costly and
lengthy paperwork? I read this on the net a while ago, and someone
actually may have said there's a little Stanza logo on the Altima
somewhere.

You *can* have it both ways :-)

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103185
From: c23reg@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Ron Gaskins)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all tim


In article <1993Apr8.233443.22590@exu.ericsson.se>, exulox@exu.ericsson.se (Lasse Ohlsson, T/TDT, 1129) writes:
> In article 23250@cas.org, sdm24@cas.org () writes:
> >IMHO, the dumbest thing we *ever* did in copying the Japanese was moving the
> >dimmer switch from the floor to the lever controlling the turn signal/cruise
 
The federal government has mandated that all passenger cars by model year
'95 return to the floor mounted dimmer switch.

A study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has
found that an unacceptable percentage of after dusk collisions were the
direct result of unskilled drivers getting their left foot stuck in the
steering wheel :-)

-- 
Ron Gaskins                                 c23reg@koptsw21.delcoelect.com
Automotive Electronic Systems               Delco Electronics
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904  
-- 
Ron Gaskins                                 c23reg@koptsw21.delcoelect.com
Automotive Electronic Systems               Delco Electronics
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103186
From: c23tvr@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Thomas Redmond)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


In article <1r1d62$d6s@agate.berkeley.edu>, bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:
> rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
> >How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
> >agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?
> 
> Hear, hear!  Thanks, Robbie.
> 
> You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as
> George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,
> who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, I think it *is* true, without singling out teenagers
> for blame, that violence is more socially acceptable than it used to be.
> Those of us who'd like to discourage violence have plenty of work to do
> with people of all ages.

I didn't know George could drive a bulldozer!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103187
From: hovnania@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Paul Hovnanian)
Subject: Re: Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

>: In response to a post about SUV's, I got several unsolicited recommendations to
>: check out the Land Cruiser, despite its astronomical price.
>: The Toyota dealer told me it's a "cult car".
>: If a car is good enough to create a passionate and loyal following, there
>: must be something really extraordinary about it.
>: So, all you Land Crusher Cultists - here is your chance to convert me.
>: 
>: -- 
>: Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
>: IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020

Based on my experience with a '79 FJ40 ( the hard-top jeep-style model ) I 
would definitely give a new model consideration if I were in the market. The
older models are VERY well built. Unless Toyota lost its mind, I would
assume, until  proven otherwise, that the newer models have inherited some
if not all of the qualities of their ancestors.

Two major differences in the running gear (that I'm aware of) need study.
My '79 has a solid front axle housing whereas the newer models have
independant front suspension. The solid axle is theoretically stronger and
more reliable than the newer model, but only experience will tell. The
independant front suspension is, no doubt, a compromise made to satisfy
the typical user, who will never need a real utility vehicle. The second
difference is the type of transfer case used on the newer models. I'm
not sure, but I think Tioyota went to a full-time 4WD or all-wheel drive
system. The older Landcruisers have a "lock-up" type. Both have their
advantages and disadvantages.

	Paul Hovnanian	hovnania@atc.boeing.com
	[Std disclaimers apply]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103188
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important?

jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:

>In article <1r1jr9$m1v@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes:
>>I figure that 30mph collisions into brick walls aren't common enough
>>for me to spend that much extra money for protection, but there are
>>lots of low-speed collisions that do worry me.

>Get into an 30+ mph accident and you may reconsider. I've been in one
>and it is *really* scarey. My life is something I value more
>than a car's looks or handeling. Consider it insurance, it may not
>happen often but when it does, you'll sure be glad you got a safe car.

>Granted the tests aren't perfect but I'd much rather be in a car that
>did well in the test than a car that did horribly. 

You raise a valid point, but again it's a tradeoff -- how much money
do you want to spend for that kind of protection?  You could buy a
Volvo, Saab, or 'Benz and get really good crash protection (and other
luxuries) but you'll pay significantly more for it.  In my case it's
out of the question because *all* of those cars are beyond my budget.

Even in high-speed head-on collisions the most beneficial item you can
have is a good old 3-point seatbelt.  Nowadays, at least in the US,
you get an airbag if you get a 3-point belt so (presumably) you get an
added safety benefit there as well.  That's something I certainly look
for and which can be had in inexpensive cars.

My $.02, of course.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103189
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?

troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker) writes:
>There is no question that the Valentine-1 ($299) has good range but
>not significant enough to be 2 or 3 times as expensive as some of the
>others.

The big win with the V-1 is not its range but rather its
directionality and multiple-transmitter tracking (which you later
called a "gimmick" -- a conclusion I disagree with).  Since the
detector incorporates multiple receivers it's not surprising that it's
significantly more expensive.  While the added capabilities may not
help you, there is added value for those of us who live in areas where
there are a lot of false-alarms.

>Summary: Valentine-1 way too expensive and not a significantly better
>performer!

I certainly call it "interesting" but I'm another person who thinks
that the added value might be coming at too high a cost.  Very
adequate radar detectors are available for less than half the cost and
one of them has suited me rather well.  If I did more long-distance
travelling in areas I'm not familiar with I'd probably consider
getting the V-1 because it's additional information would be useful in
discriminating false alarms.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103190
From: ward@cs.uiuc.edu (Christ Ward)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

R1004@vmcms.csuohio.edu writes:

>In article <C5Lz30.Jus@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
>cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
> 
>>laszlo@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Tyson F Nuss) writes:
>>
>>>From article <1pq6i2$a1f@news.ysu.edu>, by ak296@yfn.ysu.edu (John R. Daker):
>>>>
>>
>>>> Fake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.
>>>> Any gold trim.
>>
>>>	These, I will agree, are abominations, right along with the fake
>>>continental spare-tire kit -- it's sad watching those little old ladies
>>>try to load their groceries into the trunk with that huge tire-medallion
>>>in the way.
>>>	Most pitiful fake convertible top: on a "Cadillac" Cimarron, with
>>>all the chrome door trim still visible -- not fooling *anyone*.
>>>Of course, there was that Hyundai Excel I once saw...
>>
>>	I have seen a cutlass Supreme coupe (GM10) with a vinyl roof, ditto
>>a Taurus.  Shoot the owners, NOW, before it's too late.
>>
>    It gets better.  I've seen them on a 4-door escort, Chevy S-10
>Blazer, and even a Chevy astro mini-van.  A mini-van w/ a fake
>convertible top is not something you want to see just after eating!
> 

	And better yet..There's a chevette in town with wire crome wheels,
vinyl roof, tacky paint job and a continental spare (showing the wire
crome wheel within, of course)...I'm scared to look on the inside and have
only seen it rolling down the road...and I too was glad I hadn't just ate.



> 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Bob Martel               |  Lady luck must have been a wonderful girl
>bob2@cua3.csuohio.edu    |    -She's never been a friend of mine!
>R1004@vmcms.csuohio.edu  |                    The Alan Parsons Project
>                         |     The 3B1 lives!
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris T. Ward  DoD#0710   "Don't take life too seriously, you can never come
                           out of it alive."  -?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103191
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:


>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)


>eliot

	Are 180 degree V-6 "Flat-Six" engines???
-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103192
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:


>In a previous article, finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil () says:

>>In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
>>eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>>>
>>>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>eliot
>>
>>Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
>>really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
>>"underscore 4")?

>i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
>(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)
>DREW

	Then what is a "Flat-" engine???


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103193
From: CONRADIE@firga.sun.ac.za (Gerrit Conradie)
Subject: Re: Dealer cheated me with wrong odometer reading. Need help!

In article <1qvrnpINNnid@shelley.u.washington.edu> yongje@hardy.u.washington.edu (Yong Je Lim) writes:
>Subject: Dealer cheated me with wrong odometer reading. Need help!

>Here is a story.  I bought a car about two weeks ago.  I finally can
>get hold of the previous owner of the car and got all maintanence
>history of the car.  In between '91 and '92, the instrument pannel 
>of the car has been replaced and the odometer also has been reset
>to zero.  Therefore, the true meter reading is the reading before
>replacement plus current mileage.  That shows 35000 mile difference
>comparing to the mileage on the odometer disclosure from.  The 
>dealer never told me anything about that important story.
>
>I hope that I can return the car with full refund.  Do u think this
>is possible?  Does anyone have similar experiences?  Any comments
>will be appreciated.  Thanks.

Something that happened in South AFrica about a year ago: A dealer sold a 
Mercedes with an odometer reading of 150K kilometers to a lady. Turned out 
that the actual reading should have been 160K. Court case followed because
lady said she wouldn't have bought a car with that much km's. Dealer found 
quilty, fined and had to take back the car.

I think you have a case if you can get a sworn statement from the previous
owner. Take the car back to the dealer and threaten him or something.

- gerrit

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103194
From: CONRADIE@firga.sun.ac.za (Gerrit Conradie)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important? 

In article <1993Apr20.163527.12773@bnr.ca> tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes:
>Subject: Is car saftey important? 
>   I was recently thumbing through the 1993 Lemon-Aid New
>Car Guide.  What I found was a car would be given a 'Recommended'
>under the picture while a few sentences later noting how a
>driver and passenger were virtually guaranteed to be killed
>in a front end collision.  The most highly recommended small
>car (The Civic) has the worst crash rating of all of the small
>cars listed.  There were many such cases of 'great' vehicles
>where you wouldn't survive an accident.  Is it only me, or is
>safety not one of the most important factors when buying a car?
>

Definitely!

Safety is an important criterium for me when buying a car. I won't buy a 
small car like a Civic or whatever.

Great = Safety + Handling + Speed  -  for me

Seems to me that you would be more "dead" in a small car than a large car 
after an accident.

- gerrit


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103195
From: chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester)
Subject: "Production Hold" on '93 Firebird/Camaro w/ 6-Speed

After a tip from Gary Crum (crum@fcom.cc.utah.edu) I got on the Phone
with "Pontiac Systems" or "Pontaic Customer Service" or whatever, and
inquired about a rumoured Production Hold on the Formula Firebird and
Trans Am.  BTW, Talking with the dealer I bought the car from got me
nowhere.  After being routed to a "Firebird Specialist", I was able
to confirm that this is in fact the case.

At first, there was some problem with the 3:23 performance axle ratio.
She wouldn't go into any details, so I don't know if there were some
shipped that had problems, or if production was held up because they
simply didn't have the proper parts from the supplier.  As I say, she
was pretty vague on that, so if anyone else knows anything about this,
feel free to respond.  Supposedly, this problem is now solved.

Second, there is a definate shortage of parts that is somehow related
to the six-speed Manual transmission.  So as of this posting, there is
a production hold on these cars.  She claimed part of the delay was
not wanting to use inferior quality parts for the car, and therefore
having to wait for the right high quality parts...  I'm not positive
that this applies to the Camaro as well, but I'm guessing it would.

Can anyone else shed some light on this?

Chris S.
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Silvester      | "Any man capable of getting himself elected President
chriss@sam.amgen.com |  should by no means be allowed to do the job"
chriss@netcom.com    |   - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103196
From: kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....
-- 
___________________________________________________________________ ____/|
John Kissane                           | Motorola Ireland Ltd.,   | \'o.O'
UUCP    : ..uunet!motcid!glas!kissanej | Mahon Industrial Estate, | =() ()=
Internet: kissanej@glas.rtsg.mot.com   | Blackrock, Cork, Ireland |    U

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103197
From: issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti

kchong@mothra.nts.uci.edu (Keith Chong) writes:

>In article <1993Apr23.105438.3245@msus1.msus.edu> w00026@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
>>First off, the correct spelling of Nissan's luxury automobile division
>>is "Infiniti" not "Infinity."  I would also like to clear up the question
>>of what kind of engines power Lexus and Infiniti automobiles, since a
>>person had remarked in earlier posts that most Lexus and Infiniti models
>>had V6 engines, while at the same time saying that several of each
>>manufacturer used V8 engines.
>>
>>Lexus:
>>  LS400- V8
>>  GS300- V6
>>  ES300- V6
>>  SC400- V8
>>  SC300- V6

>The GS300 and SC300 have an inline 6.

>>
>>Infiniti:
>>  Q45- V8
>>  J30- V6
>>  G20- inline 4 (I must admit that I cannot remeber for sure here)

>Inline 4 is correct.

>>
>>I hope this helps.
>>
>>-BSB

>Keith

this is off the subject but, 

Don't the numbers in the car names above refair to the engine size in 
liters? i.e. ls400 = 4.0litre engine, sc300 = 3.0 liter "Sport Coupe".. 
and Q45 = 4.5liter.. (similar, kinda, to BMW and MB nameing deal). 

issa

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103198
Subject: buy back
From: <LIBEMC@BYUVM.BITNET>

We were at a dealership today looking at buying a car and
the salesman was showing us something he was calling a
"buy back".  Is that a car that was fleeted and then
given back for the new model the next year?  If that
is so, how many miles is a good number to have on it
and are these types of cars generally a good buy?

Thanks,
Ellen

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103199
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: Borgward question

In article <1r93m7INNnb3@shelley.u.washington.edu>  
monet@carson.u.washington.edu (Diana Smith) writes:
> 
> My ex-husband & I used to own Borgwards. 
> ...
> even tho' they were
> ugly - they had names - one was Humphrey Borgward.

That's pretty good.

A friend had an Audi that he named Murphy.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103200
From: jwg@SEDV1.acd4.acd.com (jwg)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1r1d62$d6s@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:

   rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
   >How about the thousands of kind teenagers who volunteer at local
   >agencies to help children, seniors, the homeless?

   Hear, hear!  Thanks, Robbie.

   You also don't read that much about violence *against* teenagers, such as
   George Bush burying alive tens of thousands of unarmed Iraqi 17-year-olds,
   who were trying to surrender, with bulldozers.


I didn't know George Bush could drive a bulldozer.



Kee-ripe.

jim grey
jwg@acd4.acd.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103201
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <13798@news.duke.edu> infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew  Infante) write
s:

>
>You're actually worried about somebody stealing
>your oil?

Ahhh yes, Andrew, we meet again...

...no, not 'stealing' the oil, just draining it as to leave me stranded.

>C'mon, you think a vandal'll do that?!

Let me guess, you're from Hudson Ohio??

>That's absolutely ridiculous!

Get out and see the world.


"IF" I were the vandal, and I really hated someone, maybe someone who knew
something about cars, of course I would look for ANY types of valves I could
undo.  Especially, special oil drain plugs, and radiator petcocks.

As well as putting bad things in the gas...

While I would never vandalize someone's car, IF I were to, it would probably
be the 'time bomb' approach, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks
that way...


steve

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103203
From: abbott@priory.enet.dec.com (Robert Abbott)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??


In article <1r1crn$27g@transfer.stratus.com>, tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com (Tommy Szeto) writes...
>Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
>once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
>under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually happens
>after a good thunder storm.  A few Qs:
> 
>1) Is this a common problem?
>2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?
> 

I had the same problem in my '90 MX-6. Luckily I had it fixed
under warranty. I think they replaced a tail light gasket.
Check with a dealer, it's a known problem.

------------------------
Robert K. Abbott
abbott@tps.enet.dec.com          

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103204
From: joe@advtech.uswest.com ( Joe Thielen)
Subject: Re: what is the deal with "blue-book" value of an auto?

In article <C5w7or.DEx@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>newton@convex.com (Vicki Newton) writes:
>
>>i am in the process of buying a new auto.  i haven't decided yet whether
>>i should sell my current car myself or trade it in as part of the new
>>auto purchase.
>
>>i know that the "blue book" value for the car is $2825.  an acquaintence
>>has offered to give me blue book value for the car.  i am just wondering
>>if this is a standard measure for negotiating a resale price or if i
>>can hope to get more money from someone else.  what exactly is blue book
>>value based on?  i know that for its year (88) my car has low mileage
>>(< 50,000).  it is in excellent working condition but does have a few
>>dings on the exterior (nothing major).  do any of these facts alter the
>>fair selling p[rice of the car?  i am not looking to rip anyone off, i
>>just naturally want to get the best price for the car.
>
>>thanks a million,
>>veek
>
>	I think the Blue Book is the NADA handbook for used car prices, no?
>	Is the Blue Book value given the retail or wholesale value???  The 
>	Blue Book value isn't set in stone, though.  Low milage, extra addons
>	and stuff like that there can increase the resale price of the car, you
>	may want to head on over to the local library or borrow your friends
>	Blue Book and read up on that sort of stuff.  I paid ~$400 under BB
>	(retail) for my '87 Civic in 1990, and it was in perfect condition and
>	had only ~14.5K miles on it.  The guy was desparate to sell, new kid on
>	the way, etc., but it was a good price.  Remeber, both you and the 
>	buyer, if he has any sort of brains at all, are using the Blue Book, so
>	you should pick a fair price.  
>
>
>				Chintan Amin
>				llama@uiuc.edu
>
>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

A mileage chart should be available in the book.  It usually goes by
the class of car you own and year.  Usually you will end up adding a few
hundred dollars to the retail price or subtracting it...  Consumer
Reports also has a number you can call and get a quote for your area.
A friend of mine used it, and was quite happy with the service.  I
believe it cost about $10.00.

-- Joe

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103205
From: joe@advtech.uswest.com ( Joe Thielen)
Subject: Re: HELP with 89 Mitsubishi Galant GS Transmission

In article <1r6j9lINNac6@phakt.usc.edu> rmakarem@usc.edu (Total Stranger) writes:
>Hi,
>I need your help with a problem I have with a 1989 Mitsubishi
>Galant GS transmission.  The car has a 5 speed manual tranmission.
>Since the car was bought new, while shifting from 2nd to 3rd,  unless 
>I do it SLOWLY and carefully, it makes a "popping" or "hitting" sound.
>The dealer and Mitsubishi customer service (reached by an 800 #) say 
>this is NORMAL for the car.  IS IT?
>And about a year ago, at 35Kmiles, the stick shift handle got STUCK
>while attempting to put it in reverse:
>   1- The shifter would not budge.  The clutch had no effect.
>   2- The front tires would not budge, even when the clutch is
>      fully depressed.
>   3- If the clutch is released the engine would die.
>   4- Assuming that some gear was engaged while the shifter was
>      stuck, I could not make the car move.  It acted as if
>      it were in Neutral(except for dying when clutch is released.)
>   5- I finally was able to release the shifter by having 
>      someone rock the car back and forth (less than an inch),
>      while I depressed the clutch and jiggled the shifter.
>   6- The shifter acted normally after that.
>
>When this happened, I took it to the dealer, they checked the 
>clutch, it was o.k. They checked the transmission, it was o.k.
>
>I had the exact problem a couple of months ago, and again last
>week.  The dealer says there is nothing they can do because 
>Mitsubishi (the 800 #) says they have never heard of the
>problem, and the dealer could not reproduce the problem while
>they had the car.  
>In all three occurances, the car was parked head first in a garage,
>and since the front wheels were stuck, the car could not be towed
>to the dealer before releasing the shifter (hence temporarily
>solving the problem).  And the dealer, and Mitsubishi, refused to
>send someone to check the car while it was stuck. 
>I KNOW there is smething wrong with the transmission (shifting 
>from 2nd to 3rd), and getting stuck at random, but I can't get 
>the dealer to fix it. I need your help with the mechanical problems, 
>and with how to handle Mitsubishi.  
>All hints and suggestions are greatly appreciated, and sorry to
>bore you with the long post.
>
>Thanks,
>Rabih.


Try another dealer.  Sometimes the sophistication of equipment etc is
better at one dealer than another.  You may also find another dealer
willing to help you with the problem.

-- Joe

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103206
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <1993Apr22.112904.6771@ericsson.se> etxmst@sta.ericsson.se writes:
>But why not turn the question around, why are automatics so common in
>the US?

Because some people like them (and some people actually need them).

>My guess is that when they tried to couple manuals to the torque-rich
>V8's in the sixties the clutches turned out as real killers you had to 
>use both feet to depress, and that this has just lived on.

Yeah, right. Real muscle cars had a manual transmission, and their
clutches aren't that heavy. Shelby-American used plenty of
high-powered, high-torque engines, and Carroll only put autos in
his cars because people wanted them. (Blasphemers! Heretics!
Burn them, burn them for defiling a Shelby with an auto! ;-)
Real Cobras (and they were the ultimate sports car at the
time) had big-block Fords which turned out prodigious amounts
of power and torque, and _none_ of them had automatics. 

>And also, an automatic with a V8 engine can be real fun to drive.

Yeah, if you call a gear shift in the middle of a curve "fun." :-)

I personally would _love_ to have a '66 Galaxie 500 7-Liter Coupe,
with a fire-breathing 427 and four-onna-floor (to go along side
my '66 Galaxie 500 pillarless hardtop with a fire-breathing 390
with three-onna-tree; I love the sound of dual exhaust in the
morning! :-). There's no comparison between a REAL American
Muscle Car and a car with a big engine and an automatic, IMHO. 

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103207
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <24553@drutx.ATT.COM> klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL) writes:
>In article <C5srIB.6AH@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>| 
>| I normally have an unloaded Colt Delta in my glove box with a loaded
>| magazine handy (which is perfectly legal in Oklahoma). For those
>| times that I'm travelling inter-state, I keep an unloaded 
>| S&W .44 Magnum revolver in the glove box, with a speed-loader
>|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>| in my pocket (which is legal everywhere, under Federal law, Illinois
>| State Police be hanged).
>
>Carrying a pistol, loaded or unloaded, in the glove compartment, is
>considered carrying a concealed weapon in Colorado and is illegal without
>a concealed weapons permit.  Unless the law has been changed recently,
>carrying a weapon openly is legal in Colorado but concealing it is illegal.
>I read a newspaper account last year where police stopped a car on a
>traffic infraction and observed a .357 magnum revolver sitting on the
>seat.  The driver could not be cited for possessing or carrying the weapon
>because it was not concealed.  The article stated that if the gun had
>been discovered in the glove box, it would have been considered a crime.

Carrying in the glove box is not covered...I'm not sure what I was 
thinking there. It _is_ legal in Oklahoma. 

On inter-state travel, as long as it is legal for you to own
at your point of origination and destination, the gun is carried
in a locked compartment/box (glove box specifically excluded) separate
from the ammo, it is legal under Title 19, Chapter 44, Section 94(9? I
forget, and my copy of the regs is at home) of the US Code. This,
unfortunately, has not prevented the theft by state troopers of a
certain state (which shall remain nameless to protect the hopelessly
stupid) under that state's law.

Gee, and I thought Federal Law overrode state law...

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103208
From: wchutt@alex.monsanto.com (Bill C Hutton)
Subject: MR2 Car Cover For Sale




For Sale:

Fitted car cover specifically for '91',92,'93 MR-2.

Top of the line Evolution-3 [TM] fabric. Used for less than 6 months.
The cover is in excellent condition-no rips, cuts, stains or other
blemishes. It has grommets for a locking cable. The color is silver.

Price: $90 f.o.b. will ship collect


please contact wchutt@monsanto.com

or phone at

314 576 3798 after 6 pm CDT

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103209
From: gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti                             

>Don't the numbers in the car names above refair to the engine size in 
>liters? i.e. ls400 = 4.0litre engine, sc300 = 3.0 liter "Sport Coupe".. 
>and Q45 = 4.5liter.. (similar, kinda, to BMW and MB nameing deal). 

Note: BMW doesnt always follow this convention.

For example, 1980 320i had a 1.8 liter engine.  The 1979 had a 2.0 liter.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103210
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?

In article <C5sxI4.J9B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>
>>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>>I am quite interested in it.
>>Thanks!
>>Darren Gibbons
>>gibbonsa@sfu.ca
>	
>	This would be the manta, would it not???  Sold through Buick dealers in the mid '70's as the price leader????
>
>	Chintan Amin
>	llama@uiuc.edu
        If it looks like a miniature corvette it would be an opel GT,the
    headlights are flipped over by pulling a lever inside.>
>-- 
>Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
>*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103211
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.


In a previous article, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) says:

>In article <1r1vofINN871@usenet.pa.dec.com> tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!) writes:
>>	Are there any MR2 owners or motor-head gurus out there, that know why
>>my MR2's engine sounds noisy? The MR2's engine is noisy at the best of times, 
>>but not even a nice nose - it's one of those very ugly noises. 
>
>assuming yours is a non turbo MR2, the gruffness is characteristic of
>a large inline 4 that doesn't have balance shafts.  i guess toyota
>didn't care about "little" details like that when they can brag about
>the mid engine configuration and the flashy styling.
>
>myself, i automatically cross out any car from consideration (or
>recommendation) which has an inline 4 larger than 2 liters and no
>balance shafts..  it is a good rule of thumb to keep in mind if you
>ever want a halfway decent engine.  
>
>if the noise really bugs you, there is nothing else that you can do
>except to sell it and get a V6.
>
>
>eliot

nice theory.  too bad the MR2's never came with a four cylinder over 2.0
liters.  More like 1.6.  Or did they? were the nonturbo MR2II's  2.2 or
some such?

I also understand that anyone using balancing shafts on four cylinders, must
pay SAAB a royalty for using their patented design..like Porsche's 3.0 I4...

c ya
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103212
From: gt4722a@prism.gatech.EDU (James B. Atkins)
Subject: Honda Mailing list?


	Is there a Honda mailing list, and if so how do I subscribe to it?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103213
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article <tcora-220493100925@b329-gator-3.pica.army.mil> tcora@pica.army.mil (Tom Coradeschi) writes:

[Useless road design, speed rate discussion deleted.]

>> Actually, the roads were designated as safe at 80 when they were built
>> in the 1950's taking into account the kinds of cars then available. The
>> number would be much higher today because the cars, tires and just about
>> everything else has imprivoved a lot.
>
>Except the drivers.

Thank You!
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      TRAVIS disclamer: the ideas expressed above are in fact the same as 
                        my employer, since I have none |-)
           e-mail, flame, at : marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103214
From: erini@enterprise.ifp.uiuc.edu (Erini Doss)
Subject: CELLULAR ANTANNAS

 I need to get some info. on cellular antennas.. who
are the biggest companies in this market now? how much
do their antenna cost? what are the specs on the antennas
(gain, directivity)...?  who is the contact person?


thank-you 

email at erini@enterprise.ifp.uiuc.edu



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103215
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: locking lugnuts / tire rebalance??

>In article <1993Apr22.145940.1@skcla.monsanto.com> mas@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
>>If you put a locking lugnut on your tires, do you need to have your
>>tires rebalanced??
>>
>>John Mas
>>
>>
>>E-Mail Address     ::     MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM
>>
>

I bought a set of ARE's a few months back and decided to add locks
so that I could keep my new rims. I haven't had a balance problem 
yet so I assume that it might be just particular to your type of
stock nuts. My rims were balanced with new BFG T/A's at a speed 
shop to the finest setting on their bal. machine, so that helps too.

Zauberer aka. Travis T.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103216
From: erini@enterprise.ifp.uiuc.edu (Erini Doss)
Subject: TRUCKING INDUSTRY

 which are them main trucking companeies and
their locations?  do you have the name of ac
a contact person?


thanks..

email at erini@enterprise.ifp.uiuc.edu



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103217
From: almanb@sr.hp.com (Bob Alman)
Subject: Re: Where can I get a New York taxi?

wharfie (wrat@unisql.UUCP) wrote:
: In article <C5r66A.6rB@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> almanb@sr.hp.com (Bob Alman) writes:
: >          "hose"  h-o-s-e

: 	Dork.  d-o-r-k.


Oh, really?  
Here's what you posted earlier in another thread.  Before you thrash
others for making simple mistakes or flaunt your wonderful "vi skill",
think about how you make them feel as well as how you look (you spelled
it right). ;-}
For years you have assaulted others with offensive language, etc.  From
the content of many of your posts, you appear to have a lot of useful
information to share with people, but it gets overshadowed when you come
across as an abusive smart-ass.  


wharfie (wrat@unisql.UUCP) wrote:
: In article <C5LoBL.DDw@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Z
auberer) writes:
: >
: > Remember roads in America are NOT designed for speeds above 80
meaning they
: >would be safe at 55-65. Roads like the Autobahn are smoother,
straiter,
: >wider and slightly banked.

:       Well, that's news.  Before 1975 the speed limit on Texas
highways
: was 75.  The speed limit on the New Jersey Turnpike (I-95) was 70.
There
: were no speed limits in Nevada or Montana.

: >east becoming hidden by trees after about 1,000 ft and continued to
the
: >left strait north. I wanted to turn north, checked the south lane,
rolled

:       "straight".  s-t-r-a-i-g-h-t


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103218
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: Choice of gauges

In article <C5yBo4.E5I@vcd.hp.com> dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Gauge) writes:
>If you had free reign to design your own instrument cluster, which
>gauges would you choose to have beyond the basic set?
>
>I consider the basic set to be:
>
>	- tach
          must have
>
>	- coolant temp (or cylinder head temp for air-cooled engines)
          must
>	- oil pressure
          must
>	- amps
          I've seen amps and volts, I would go for the volts
>	- speedo
          must you ask?
>	- fuel
          I would like to know how much gas I have. Of course the 
          gauge I have now dosen't tell me s**t so I could see not 
          having one in favor of  a warning light at say, 50mi
>
>others that are nice to have:
>
>	- volts (maybe this should be in the basic set)
>	- vacuum/boost
          OOOOOOHHHHH! how I would LOOOVE to have a vacuum gauge 
           on my dash!

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      TRAVIS disclamer: the ideas expressed above are in fact the same as 
                        my employer, since I have none |-)
           e-mail, flame, at : marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103219
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Subject: Re: comparing saabs & bmw's

edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards) writes:
> 
> BMW's **SUCK** in the snow.  I have aggressive snows, plus a hundred
> pounds of sand in the back, and I still try to avoid driving in the snow.
> I happily took the SAAB through blizzard conditions without a worry.
> I would say this is the single design flaw in the BMW.

For a reasonable sum, you can get a BMW with traction control:
a torque-sensing (limited slip) rear differential.  Since no
FWD car, including the Saab, has this kind of front differential,
since it would exacerbate torque steer, a BMW with traction control
should have the theoretical advantage on snow.  Of course weight
distribution and skinny tires could affect this...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103220
From: chan@ee.rochester.edu (Chan)
Subject: BFGoodrich Radial T/A & Touring T/A tires

Hi:

I am looking for tires.  I would like to hear your experience on the 
BF Goodrich Radial T/A tires and/or the Touring T/A especially for
size P185/70R13.

For Radial T/A: How do they do in SNOW, and WET weather?  Are they quiet tires?

For Touring T/A: How many miles can they last?  I believe they are in
                 every way equal/better than Radial T/A.  Am I right?

-Chan.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103221
From: amiller@almaden.ibm.com (Alex Miller)
Subject: Re: Choice of gauges


If I'm going to drive on a public road then I need a
speedometer, and an odometer helps for navigation.
 
My 1965 Chevy has a bare minimum:  Engine-temp and
Oil-press warning lights and a fuel gauge. 

My 1983 VW has tach, water-temp, voltmeter 
and oil-temp gauges. 
 
If I had a turbo car, I'd want a vacuum manifold/boost
gauge.  An oil pressure gauge is a nice, reassuring
gauge to look at.  If my car was air cooled, then I
would substitute a cyl-head-temp gauge for the water-temp
gauge.
 
A few years ago, I looked at the Audi Quattro Si Coupe
that Bobby Unser used to win the 1986 Pikes Peak Hill Climb.
The gauge layout, from left to right, top to bottom was:
 
----------------------------------
 
speedometer
 
----------------------------------
 
fuel                  tranny
press                 temp
 
----------------------------------
 
differential           water
temp                   temp
 
----------------------------------
 
big orange             tach
oil-press
warning light
 
----------------------------------
 
oil-temp               boost
 
----------------------------------
 
oil-press
 
---------------------------------- 
 
Alex
amiller@almaden.ibm.com


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103222
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: comparing saabs & bmw's

In article <lth2onINN3r0@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>For a reasonable sum, you can get a BMW with traction control:
>a torque-sensing (limited slip) rear differential.  

"traction control" as far as the optional feature that one buys with
cars is not the same thing at all as a torque sensing differential.

a torque sensing differential is a type of LSD, but not all LSD's
are torque sensing.  viscous coupled differentials (as opposed to
viscous couplings) are rotational sensing, not torque sensing.
for that matter, so are "traction control" systems that use ABS
sensors and pulse braking.

then there are the older posi-tracs and whatever which i am not
familiar with the workings.


eliot




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103223
From: jjmckay@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jim McKay)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com (Tommy Szeto) writes:

>Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
>once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
>under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually happens
>after a good thunder storm.  A few Qs:

>1) Is this a common problem?

Yes this is a common problem.  The leaks occur through the seal of the 
taillights.  Unfortunately, Ford has this with Most Probes and does
not have a recall for it.  Very dissatisfying to say the least.

>2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?

There is no drain holes that I know of.  I used a margine tub to drain it
Regretably I waited three months as I was short cash and they wouldn't fix it
under warrantee.  Then I paid dearly as it messed up my electrical system
including a balance/motion sensor which is located near the fuel shutoff in 
the trunk.  This resulted in my passive restraints malfunctioning--they would
not retract.  So I ended up paying about $200 to have the sensor replaced; 
$90 to have the tail lights resealed (they firts replaced the hatch gasket
which I insisted was not the problem so they did not charge me for that
when I proved to be right.); not to mention the water damage to the 
covers to the trunk/spare com partment and algae in the taillights.

very annoying.  Don't let the water problem go--get it fixed or you'll pay
more later.  Considering how common a problem it is I hope every one
complains to Ford.

>Thanks for any info.
>Tom

>-- 
>Tom Szeto                         "No!  Not those peanuts!  The ones on the
>tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com       bottom....ggnuuaahuuhh" 
>#include <disclaimer.h>            - Homer Simpson

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103224
From: shantanu@risc.sps.mot.com (Shantanu Ganguly)
Subject: Re: Are BMW's worth the price?

In article <9866@ceylon.gte.com> hhd0@harvey.gte.com (Horace Dediu) writes:
>In article <1pvjlnINNckf@daffy.sps.mot.com>, shantanu@risc.sps.mot.com (Shantanu Ganguly) writes:

>|> 
>|> Some comments:
>|> 
>|> a) Good performance and mid and high speeds can be obtained by adjusting the
>|>    top gear and final drive ratios. Contrary to popular misperception, a 
>|>    number of Japanese cars have quite good performance from 70+ in top
>|>    gear. 
>
>No problem with that.  The question is:  do they perform consistently in all
>conditions (roads, winds and curves) at that speed and do so for hours on end, 
>year after year without giving the driver white knuckles?  From my experience on 
>the Autobahns/Autostrade, a good touring car can be easily distinguished by its 
>"poise" at >100mph.  The best stay on cruise control at 155 for hours.  I've
>seen the typical boy racer in a Fiat try to keep up.  Sure they hit the century
>mark, but if the wind blows the wrong way they change lanes, and if on an
>overpass, they may fly right into a guardrail.  The buffeting at 125 can be
>severe enough to  make the hood bend.  Tires at 155 can melt, and a pothole can
>kill.  Many German cars are designed for this environment, even if they can't
>seem to get out of their own way from a stop light (Mercedes come to mind in
>particular.)  And another design point is fuel economy at those speeds.  The
>Germans gear the car for very good high speed efficiency (a typical M-B 300E turns
>1500 at 55, almost a stall :-)

Good point. I have no idea how either of my Hondas will handle at 100+ mph,
nor do they reach 155. However, using `high' to be 70-90 mph:

a) They are quite amenable to long high speed drives. I've done several
1k mile+ trips in my Civic with no problems whatsoever. The last big trip
I made was driving from New York to Texas. I remember driving 700-800
miles a day at typically 75-85 mph  without any problems. I'm sure I  
would have been more comfortable driving a benz, but no white knuckles.
No problems with winds and curves. 

Then there was the trip back from New Orleans after Mardi Gras - where
we were doing 80+ all the way to Houston. No problems.

b) Both my cars have surprising good fuel economy at high speeds. I see
no difference between sustained 60 mph and sustained 80mph. On the trip
back from New Orleans, we got about 30 mpg in my Integra, quite ok. Mind
you, the engine revs to almost 4k at 80. The civic is markedly better
than the Integra in fuel economy. 50k miles down the road, I still
get 35 mpg at 70-75 mph driving.


>|> b) I can't understand why these high-scale European marquees are afraid
>|>    to design engines that can be repeatedly revved to near redline in
>|>    the low gears. I have been doing that for that last 50k miles with
>|>    my lowly Civic, with no detriment to either the engine or the clutch,
>|>    and getting excellent mpg to boot. I'd call this an engineering hack
>|>    to cover up design deficiencies.
>
>At 50k miles you'd still be breaking-in a "high-scale European marquee"  They 
>typically are designed to last 300,000 miles per engine, 500,000 mi. per
>chassis. (The record is now over 1,500,000 miles on a Benz diesel, and I've
>read about *transmissions* lasting 700,000 miles.)  Speaking of

Now now, you can't compare a diesel with a gasoline engine. I see enough
bmws and gasoline mercs for sale that have 100-150k miles on them and advertise 
rebuilt engines. If honda was to build an accord for 30k, I'd darn well
expect the sucker to last 300k miles.

>diesels, they have very good efficiency at the cost of acceleration, and are very
>popular in all European cars (diesel is considered the "green" fuel) from the
>smallest econoboxes to the luxo-barges.  Again, we see a difference in mentality.
>Diesels in the US are considered slightly worse than useless, and extremely
>"dirty" to boot so you can't give them away.

Ever got caught behind a early 80's 300SDL at a stop light? It's not
pleasant. The newer MB's are a lot better though. The diesel Volvos
and VWs are probably the smelliest offenders.

As for economy, why should we care? Gas is cheap! I personally wouldn't
buy a diesel car for any reason - what does it buy me?

Shantanu Ganguly
Somerset (Motorola)

phone : (512) 795-7146                  Motorola Inc, Mail Drop OE 513
fax   : (512) 795-7513                  6501 William Cannon Drive W.
                                        Austin TX 78735-8598
email : shantanu%ibmoto.com@oakhill.sps.mot.com



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103225
From: andrei@namao.uucp (Andrei Chichak)
Subject: Re: Bimmer vs Beamer

Mark Monninger (markm@latium.) wrote:
> Although not in direct response to the referenced article, just to set the 
> record straight, Beamers are BMW motorcycles. BMW cars are Bimmers. Please,
> let's get our terms straight.
> 
> Actually, some purists would argue that the only true Bimmer is a round
> tail light 2002 or 1600.
> 
> Mark
Back when I was building round tail light 2002s they were Bimmers.  It was
only when the (red suspendered, Reganomics generated, quiche eating) Yuppies
got into the market >-( that they became Beamers and the hood ornaments started
disappering.

Andrei

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103226
From: cak3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (CHAD ANDREW KAUFFMAN)
Subject: Car alarm info. (UNGO BOX)




    I want to get a car alarm and I am thinking about getting an Ungo Box.
    Does anyone out there have any knowledge or experience with any of
    these alarms?  How about price ranges for the different models?
    Are these good car alarms?  Please email me any responces.

                cak3@ns3.lehigh.edu

                                        Chad
                                                Chad

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103227
From: bmoss@grinch.sim.es.com (Brent "Spuzy" Moss)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

The rubber drain plugs under my carpet in my mazda glc leaked
like the ones are doing under your spare in the Probe.
I tooke them out and put some silicone sealant on them
and put them back in.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103228
From: rhorwell@crab.network-a (Roland Faragher-Horwell)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?

In article 2550@ericsson.se, etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121) writes:
>In article 1r3n32INNk9p@ctron-news.ctron.com, smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr21.032905.29286@reed.edu>, rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour) writes:
>>>In article <1993Apr20.174246.14375@wam.umd.edu> lerxst@wam.umd.edu (where's my  thing) writes:
>>>> It was called a Bricklin.
>>
>>>Bricklins were manufactured in the 70s with engines from Ford.
>>
>>Waitaminnit, didn't the Bricklin have an Pugeot six-cylinder?  Or am I
>>confusing it with the DeLorean?  I was sure the DeLorean had a v8.
>>
>
>The DeLorean had the yucky PRV V6 engine. A joint-venture between 
>Peugout (note spelling), Renault and Volvo. PRV. This engine is a *MIGHTY BORING* 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>Markus
 
Markus, what is that we are noting about the spelling?  That you aren't good at it? :^)
That Peugeot is OUT of N. America?  What does this mean?

Roland, An intrigued Peugeot admirer 



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103229
From: firman@envmsa.eas.asu.edu (B B S)
Subject: Re: VIPER

In article <C5JnHA.8IB@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen) writes...
> 
>Last night I had a dream that my dad bought a Viper.
>I took it out for a test drive, without his knowledge,
>and had to push it all the way home just to avoid a ticket.
>Wierd dream, I wonder what it means....
> 
You probably should told you dad to buy that car, than your dream might
come true.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103230
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Saturn's Pricing Policy

In article <1qn19m$c9s@vela.acs.oakland.edu> mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu writes:
>I just ordered a Saturn SL1 after considering a few imports. Frankly, the Saturn
>
stuff deleted...

>Saturn also has a good extended warranty program; $675 for 6 year/60K miles, 
>fully refunded if you don't use it. That works out to an actual cost of $170 or
>so, based on the 6 year treasury rates. Using savings account rates it's more
>like $120. In the first three years it also buys you free rental during any
>warranty work, without counting against the refund.
>--mike
>
in general extended warranties are a ripoff.  this 6yr/60k is really only
3yr/24k because you get the 3yr/36k one *free* with the car.  also, is there
perhaps a deductible you pay each and every time you use the warranty?
also, are certain items excluded from coverage on the extended warranty?
and if you use it at year 4 for some 60 buck job and pay a 50 deduct and then
you have used it so no refund ever!
again, extended warranties are ripoff, high profit items for the dealer.
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103231
From: daubendr@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Darren R Daubenspeck)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?


> they are pretty much junk, stay away from them.  they will be replaced next
> year with all new models.  


Junk?  They've made the C&D lists for years due to their excellent handling and  
acceleration.  They have been around since about, oh, 85 or 86, so they're not  
the newest on the lot, and mileage is about five to eight MPG under the class  
leader.  You can get into a 3.0 L v-6 (141 hp) Shadow for $10~11K (the I-4  
turbo a bit more), and a droptop for $14~15K.  



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103232
From: david@trsvax.tandy.com
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?


   I wouldn't want anyone to make kindling out of my front living-
   room wall and then drive their diesel powered M-60 tank into it,
   shooting super-hot soot all over my curtains and that freshly 
   made kindling.
   In other words, please don't FLAME me!

	  Yup, I'll have to answer for this one.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103233
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Subject: Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

My wife and I looked at, and drove one last fall. This was a 1992 model.
It was WAYYYYYYYYY underpowered. I could not imagine driving it in the
mountains here in Colorado at anything approaching highway speeds. I
have read that the new 1993 models have a newer, improved hp engine. 

I'm quite serious that I laughed in the salesman face when he said "once
it's broken in it will feel more powerful". I had been used to driving a
Jeep 4.0L 190hp engine. I believe the 92's Land Cruisers (Land Yachts)
were 3.0L, the sames as the 4Runner, which is also underpowered (in my
own personal opinion). 

They are big cars, very roomy, but nothing spectacular.


( ___ )-----------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email: tvervaek@cs.itc.hp.com        | \ |
 | / | Hewlett Packard Co.    Phone: 719-590-2133                  | \ |
 | / |                                                             | \ |
 |___|          I love animals. They taste delicious.              |___|
(_____)-----------------------------------------------------------(_____)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103234
From: davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott)
Subject: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.

I'm interestend in determining whether or not these things are true.
Has anyone out there with Geico made a claim?  I'd be interested in
hearing whether or not you were satisfied with the service and whether
you then had trouble renewing your policy.

I'm also interested in any good or bad stories about Liberty Mutual or
State Farm.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103235
From: sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee) writes:
|> : be valued in terms of money because they are human beings, I submit 
|> that they are not human beings.  

Such submissions have been made before, e.g. regarding Jews.
 
In article <1993Apr21.042234.23924@nuscc.nus.sg>, matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes:
|> Absolutely. A scratch on my car bothers me more than the death of any
|> number of scum. All of you feel the same way---you just won't admit it.
|> When are people going to realise that the mere fact that a piece of flesh
|> moves and has the approximate shape of a human being does not in itself
|> mean that it has "rights"?

All you Dirty Harry types, eager to pull a gun on  some scum guilty of 
scratching your stupid painted metal boxes on wheels : have you ever 
KILLED a human to speak so lightly about such matters  ?

Sergei
 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103236
From: mark@luke.cray.com (Mark Dean)
Subject: Re: Ford and the auto

> Hello, my name is Russell Wong and I am doing a research project on Henry
> Ford and his automobile.  I need information on whether Ford is
> partially responsible for all of the car accidents and the depletion of
> the ozone layer.  Also, any other additional information will be greatly
> appreciated.  Thanks. 


>So would Mr. Benz.. -Eh?

>And Mr. Chevy, Mr. Toyokogio, and Mr (Insert Car name here...)


>---
>Dan Reed - blu@cellar.org - Eat Your Pets - Poke Out Your Eyes - Kill Your 
>Boss - Burn Down Your House - Move To Elmer NJ - Rip Out Your Nose Hairs With 
>A Lead Holder - Use X-Acto Knives For Dental Work - Hit Your Mother.......

People get a life !!!!!!!!!!

            MD

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103237
From: mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri)
Subject: Re: Renting from Alamo

>> 'cause a friend rented a car last year and it turned out he needed a lot more
>>insurance than what's included in the base price. But on the other hand he 
>>didn't rent it from Alamo.
>>
>>Probability that I'll be needing more insurance?

>Unless you have an accident, you won't need more.  
>
>Joe
>
==================
Let me see, "unless you have an accident, you won't need more", hmmmmmmm.

Bijan

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103238
From: yjwon@deca.cs.umn.edu (Youjip Won)
Subject: Manual Xmission-Advice needed...

I have manual transmission 5 speed. It difficult to engage gear. Does xmission oil change improve this situation?
What do you think about the most favorable xmission oil change period?

Youjip

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103239
From: brother@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Jesse McCabe)
Subject: Re: Choice of gauges

dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Gauge) writes:
B
B

>I can think of a few others, but what are your ideas and why?

>-Dave

Well, in my BMW I like the little light that turns on when you are running
out of gas, it's a big help.  If you got a turbo, that gauge is a must.
If I could, I'd just like all the gauges possible on my car, but...  we can't
have everything can we?


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103240
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr23.172824.17128@telxon.mis.telxon.com> joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt) writes:


> Newsgroups: rec.autos
> Path: eclipse!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!louie!udel!news.intercon.com!psinntp!telxon.mis.telxon.com!joes
> From: joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt)
> Organization: TELXON Corporation
> References: <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu> <1993Apr23.132214.6755@cs.tulane.edu> <1r8ufk$fr7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 17:28:24 GMT
> Lines: 30
> 
> In article <1r8ufk$fr7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. 
> Spencer) writes:
> >
> >In a previous article, finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil () says:
> >
> >>In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
> >>eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
> >>>
> >>>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>eliot
> >>
> >>Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
> >>really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
> >>"underscore 4")?
> >
> >i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
> >(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)
> >DREW
> 
> I've always heard them referred to "horizontally opposed"...
> 
> Joe
> 

Kinda dull - I've always liked 'boxer' - Subarus can use this, as does
Porche 911 and BMW twins (that's a motorcycle for you with 2 too many 
wheels).
Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103241
From: jdenune@pandora.sdsu.edu (John Denune)
Subject: Re: Sport Utility Vehical comparisons? Any Opinions?

Karl Elvis MacRae (kmac@cisco.com) wrote:

: 	I'm looking at the following three SUV's; anyone who's driven all
: 	three have any strong opinions?
:
: 	Ford Explorer
: 	Toyota 4Runner
: 	Nissan Pathfinder

Well, I was just in your position and I drove all three and liked
all three.  It was a toss-up.  I marginally went with the Pathfinder
based on reliability and looks.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

---John
jdenune@pandora.sdsu.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103242
From: John Foster <32HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

>From: drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
>In article <pod.734834505@sour.sw.oz.au> pod@sour.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell) wri
>>In <1qgi8eINNhs5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> yiklam@unixg.ubc.ca (Yik Chong Lam) writes
>>
>>>Hello,
>>
>>>      Does anyone know how to take out the bolt under the engine
>>>compartment?  Should I turn clockwise or counter?  I tried any kind
>>>of lubricants, WD-40,etc, but I still failed!
>>>      Do you think I can use a electric drill( change to a suitable
>>>bit ) to turn it out?  If I can succeed, can I re-tighten it not too
>>>tight, is it safe without oil leak?
>>
>>You shouldn't need any power tools to undo it, an electric drill
>>probably won't give you much extra torque anyway.  WD40 will help
>>things that are seized due to rust but this is unlikely for a drain
>>plug.  You should be able to undo it with a spanner.  When it
>>loosens, it will probably become very loose and you will bash your
>>knuckles on the underside of the car - this is the price you must
>>pay for doing you own work.
>
>No, that's the price you pay for not knowing how to use a
>wrench.  You want to pull the wrench towards you, away from
>painful knuckle splitting hard things.  If you can't pull it
>because things are in the way, push it with an open hand.

I find this method much better myself, too, although I do really
hate it when the bolt finally comes loose and the wrench and my
hand both come crashing into my face.  After coming to, which is
about 15 minutes later, I change my clothes (because by this time
all the oil has drained *on* me), and ice my entire face and suck
down about 20 Tylenol to ease the pain.  Later in the day I then
proceed with refilling the engine oil.

It's just crazy how I try and change the oil on my cars in one
weekend---I go through about 3 bottles of Tylenol and 2 bags of ice.

John

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103243
From: dspalme@mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
: 
: >: nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) writes:
: >: > HELP!!!
: >: > my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.


: >jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry) writes:
: >: FYI, just last week the PBS show Motor Week gave the results of what they 
: >: thought were the best cars for '93.  In the convertible category, the 
:                                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

   (snip, snip)

: Does Porsche have a patent on the "targa" name?
: I mean, convertible to me means "top down", which the del Sol certainly
: does NOT do.  It has the center that lifts out.  This is what i would
: term a targa(unless Porsches was gonna sue me for doing that).  I know
: the rear window rolls down, but i still can hardly consider this car
: to be a convertible.
: 
: DREW

Here we go...

No, of course Porsche doesn't have a patent on the "targa" name.  If that were
the case, what would Fiat do?  I suppose that technically my del Sol is not a
"convertible" in the literal sense, but it certainly classifies as an open-
topped car.  In addition, the rear section behind the removable top is what
makes my car _infinately_ safer than a convertible.

(flame-retardant on ...)

Diane
dspalme@mke.ab.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103244
Subject: Re: Information needed...
From: mchase@oneb.almanac.bc.ca

yjwon@deca.cs.umn.edu (Youjip Won) writes:

> Hi! This is my first time to post on this news group. Now a days , I have stu
>    There is a engine warning signal on the dash board. While driving, this si
>   I wanna know how the engine warning signal comes. Is anybody out there who 
> 

Low oil pressure, usually.  Could be your oil pump, or...
checked your oil lately???

MC

           mchase@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Mark Chase)
     The Old Frog's Almanac  (Home of The Almanac UNIX Users Group)    
(604) 245-3205 (v32)    <Public Access UseNet>    (604) 245-4366 (2400x4)
        Vancouver Island, British Columbia    Waffle XENIX 1.64  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103251
From: kking@cs.uah.edu (Ken King)
Subject: Re: The Kuebelwagen??!!          

In article <C5K5Co.F09@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:
>	Sorry for the mis-spelling, but I forgot how to spell it after 
>my series of exams and NO-on hand reference here.
>
>	Is it still possible to get those cute WWII VW Jeep-wanna-be's?
>A replica would be great I think.  

  greetings:
  you may be in luck.  i seem to recall seeing a blurb in one of
the kit car magazines about a company in norway who pulled a
mould (sp?) off a real kubel, and has adapted it to the beetle
floorpan.  as for the suspension, all i can remember about the
vw thing i used to own is that it had about 3" more suspension
travel than a stock beetle, but i'd heard that there were after-
market parts for off-road use that were as good or better.  note
that the major difference (looks wise) between a kubel & a thing
are the hood and the fenders.  the kubel had an external spare
mounted *on* the hood, and the hood sloped down (for visibility?)
sharply, and had rounded fenders.  the thing has a lightly sloped 
hood with the spare mounted inside (unless moved to make for more
luggage space...) and has half-hexagon shaped fenders (imagine a
nut large enough to put a tire *in*, and cut off the bottom half
of it...).
  unfortunately, i don't have that info anymore.  try stopping
at a local bookstore and copying down the phone numbers for the
two big mag's and calling them.  they might be able to get the
number for you (don't forget to calculate the time difference to
norway before calling...).

later,
kc
-- 
          ___==A==___          | Quick Bones, help me get | #include 
  .---====   ( o )   ====---.  | this Klingon off my *ss! |  <std/disclaimer.h>
 /        ~~~~~~~~~~~        \ | Damn it, Jim, I'm a      | 
 ()     kking@cs.uah.edu    () | doctor, not a bidet!  :) | 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103256
From: rich1@netcom.com (Richard Soennichsen)
Subject: Re: service indicator of a BMW

Save youself the cash.  Take it from a BMW mechanic.  Idiot lights are for just that.  Buy yourself a ballpoint pen and write it down yourself.  Change your oil every 3000 mi. and you will be just fine.

	Follow the regular service intervals in you r book also.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103257
From: qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

From article <1r8uckINNcmf@gap.caltech.edu>, by wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su):
> In article <1r7cr2INNvar@sumax.seattleu.edu> smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris) writes:
>>The Villager-Quest seem like the best of the Cravan/Voyager copies to
> <come along since the Mazda MPV.  The NISSAN MAXIMA engine paired with
>>the MAXIMA 4 speed Auto Trans should be an excellent drive train, and
> <the rest of the vehicle seems well engineered.  Only the price is
>>controversial.
> 
> Hmm.  The last time I checked, Villager/Quest does not have a Maxima
> engine, and is very much under powered for its weight.

--Yes, it does come with the Maxima GXE engine mated to the Maxima SE
  transmission.  And it has decent power for a minivan also.  

  Check again.

--Aamir Qazi
-- 

Aamir Qazi
qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
--Why should I care?  I'd rather watch drying paint.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103258
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles

In article <C5L86z.E73@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rdb1@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ronald.j.deblock..jr) writes:
>Yes, I saw a 200 Turbo Quattro wagon on I-287 in NJ on Monday.  I thought
>Audi stopped selling wagons in the US after the 5000.  This is exactly the
>type of vehicle I would like to own.  I bet its price is 4-5 times my
>car budget.

think again!!  thanks to 60 minutes (tick tick tick), used 200
quattros are bargains.. '89s go for about $15K, '90s go for perhaps 1
or 2K more, the 20 valve 91's are quite a bit more because of an
enormous hp and torque gain.. i think they go for about $23 to $25K if
you can find one.  i have seen quite a lot of '89-'90 200 quattros (not
that many wagons though) at the dealer lot.. they use very high
quality paint and the entire car is zinc galvanized, so it will never
rust.

in short, typically a 4 yr old 200 looks no more older than a 1 year
old and the 5 bangers are bullet proof engines.  200K out of one is
not rare, even for a turbo, which is watercooled for the 200s.  then
there are aftermarket chips that you can buy to bump up turbo boost...

if you are into luxo-gizmos.. the cars are loaded with just about
everything too..

the price of parts is a different story though...


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103259
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: Dealer cheated me with wrong odometer reading. Need help!

In article <1qvrnpINNnid@shelley.u.washington.edu> yongje@hardy.u.washington.edu (Yong Je Lim) writes:
>Here is a story.  I bought a car about two weeks ago.  I finally can
>get hold of the previous owner of the car and got all maintanence
>history of the car.  In between '91 and '92, the instrument pannel 
>of the car has been replaced and the odometer also has been reset
>to zero.  Therefore, the true meter reading is the reading before
>replacement plus current mileage.  That shows 35000 mile difference
>comparing to the mileage on the odometer disclosure from.  The 
>dealer never told me anything about that important story.
>
>I hope that I can return the car with full refund.  Do u think this
>is possible?  Does anyone have similar experiences?  Any comments
>will be appreciated.  Thanks.

This is a tricky situation; if the previous owner didn't inform
the dealer of the odometer change, then the previous owner committed
fraud, and he may be liable. The dealer may also be liable; If the
previous owner notified the dealer, or if the previous owner had the 
dash replaced at a dealer, or if the previous owner had the dash changed 
legally, any records search on the car should turn up the fact that
the odometer had been altered.  If a dealer changes the speedometer, he has
to report it (it goes into the car's service record with the manufacturer,
and on the title, if I remember correctly; the dealer told me that
the old mileage, etc. were sent to Ford when my T-Bird's speedo 
was replaced). If the odometer can be set to the old mileage, it must 
be; if it can't (eg, electrically-driven odometers) then the mileage 
of the old odometer must be written on a permanent sticker which is 
affixed to the door frame of the vehicle. 

Either way, if the change had been done legally, then a records search
(which the dealer almost certainly did) should have turned it up.

Call your state's Department of Transportation/Public Safety/Motor
Vehicles--or your tag agent--to find out for certain what your
rights are. Your state's Attorney General will know for certain ;-)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103260
From: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

x>>
x>>>> Fake convertible roofs and vinyl roofs.
x>>>> Any gold trim.
x >
x>>>     These, I will agree, are abominations, right along with the fake
x>>>continental spare-tire kit -- it's sad watching those little old ladies
x>>>try to load their groceries into the trunk with that huge tire-medallion
x>>>in the way.
x>>>     Most pitiful fake convertible top: on a "Cadillac" Cimarron, with
x>>>all the chrome door trim still visible -- not fooling *anyone*.
x>>>Of course, there was that Hyundai Excel I once saw...
x>>
Least you think bad taste is something new:
Back in the early 1970s I saw a couple of cars with *flocked* paint jobs.
Thats not a typo. I think they sprayed on some kind of glue then blew
on tiny pieces of nylon. It comes out looking like felt. Can you picture
a huge Plymouth Fury III in dark blue felt? I think I can even remember
one guy who did it in red to a early 1960s Corvette. That was after he had
turned it into a station wagon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mack Costello <mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)
David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC    ___/-\____
Bethesda, MD 20084-5000   Phone (301) 227-2431          (__________>|

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103261
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.


In a previous article, aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) says:

>
>In a previous article, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) says:
>
>>In article <1r1vofINN871@usenet.pa.dec.com> tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!) writes:
>nice theory.  too bad the MR2's never came with a four cylinder over 2.0
>liters.  More like 1.6.  Or did they? were the nonturbo MR2II's  2.2 or
>some such?

let me clarify, i think they both are 2.0 litres.

>I also understand that anyone using balancing shafts on four cylinders, must
>pay SAAB a royalty for using their patented design..like Porsche's 3.0 I4...

i was already corrected on this, and believe i may have been in errror, that
it is actually MISTUBISHI. 
apologies for butting into the thread.
>c ya
>DREW


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103262
From: lofaso@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Bernie Lofaso)
Subject: Re: Fast idle on 88 Ford Ranger

ljbartel@naomi.b23b.ingr.com (Les Bartel) writes:

>It did it again.  This morning, my 88 Ford Ranger was idling at 10,000 RPM.
>Ok, so I exaggerated a little, but it was idling very fast.  It has a 2
>liter carburated engine in it, and no blipping of the throttle would
>cause the idle to drop back to normal (I don't think the linkage is stuck).
>What can I do to fix this problem?  This has been a problem from time to
>time, but has straightened itself out - until now.  I don't have a tach,
>but by gauging by the sound of the engine, it is idling about twice as fast
>as it should be.  This is down from what it was idling at when I pulled up
>at a stop light.

Sometimes a bad choke pull-off diaphram will cause a car to fast idle. The
pull-off, which is vacuum actuated, provides a necessary pull in non-cold
weather conditions to get the idle off the the fast idle cam. Locate the
fast idle cam on your vehicle and see if you can rotate it to produce a
normal idle. If so, locate the diaphram and test it. If you can't apply
suction (via a good piece of rubber vacuum hose) with your mouth that will
cause the diaphram to retract, then it's bad and should be replaced.

Bernie Lofaso
Applied Research Labs

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103263
From: v064mb9k@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (NEIL B. GANDLER)
Subject: Opinions on 88-89 Pontiac Bonneville



  I am in the market to buy a used car. I am particularly
interested in the Pontiac Bonneville. My budget is between 7-
8 thousand. Would I be able to afford an 88 or 89. What
engines were available at this time. I know they didn't
redesign until the 1992 model year. How is the reliability of
past models. I would appreciate any advice or information.

                  Neil Gandler

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103264
From: stafford@lobby.ti.com (Ron Stafford)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

In article <93111.12475032HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> John Foster <32HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:
>Date: Wednesday, 21 Apr 1993 12:47:50 EDT
>From: John Foster <32HNBAK@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.
>>From: drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
>>In article <pod.734834505@sour.sw.oz.au> pod@sour.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell) wri
>>>In <1qgi8eINNhs5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> yiklam@unixg.ubc.ca (Yik Chong Lam) writes
>>>
>>>>Hello,
>
>I find this method much better myself, too, although I do really
>hate it when the bolt finally comes loose and the wrench and my
>hand both come crashing into my face.  After coming to, which is
>about 15 minutes later, I change my clothes (because by this time
>all the oil has drained *on* me), and ice my entire face and suck
>down about 20 Tylenol to ease the pain.  Later in the day I then
>proceed with refilling the engine oil.
>
>It's just crazy how I try and change the oil on my cars in one
>weekend---I go through about 3 bottles of Tylenol and 2 bags of ice.
>
>John

Not everyone should be trusted with tools. ;-)


--------------------------------------------------------
Ron Stafford              TEXAS INSTRUMENTS INCORPORATED
(214) 917-2050            P.O.Box 655012, MS 3620
STAFFORD@LOBBY.TI.COM     Dallas, Texas 75265-3620

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103265
From: nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

jlong@emcnext2.tamu.edu (James Long) writes:

>In article <1r1crn$27g@transfer.stratus.com> tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com  
>(Tommy Szeto) writes:
>> Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
>> once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
>> under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually  
>happens
>> after a good thunder storm.  A few Qs:
>> 
>> 1) Is this a common problem?
>> 2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?

>I noticed this is my '89 probe also, when recently cleaning out the back.  I  
>think the water is coming *up* through some rubber stoppered holes beneath the  
>spare.  Mine looked slightly worn, and there was no water or water damage above  
>the level of the spare area. 

>This has taken a low priority since I just found out (while rotating my tires)  
>that I have a torn CV boot - ugh!!

I've got an 89 GT.  It has the smoked taillight assembly.  I think this is where
the water is getting in.  When I first got it (had it for a month), one of the rear
taillights fogged up with moisture.  I took it in to the dealer and they replaced
the entire assembly.  It happened to the other one about 3 months later.  This time
I happened to look in the spare tire well and noticed water standing in there.  The
dealer was more reluctant this time to replace it.  But I convinced them to
fix it.  (They must have had to deal with a number of other probes with the same
problem.)  I haven't noticed water in the taillamps (or the trunk) for the last 2.5
years, but just last month, the taillamp just fogged up again.  I'm going to try
to take it back to get them to fix it again.  I'm real tempted to drill some vent
and drain holes in the tops and bottoms of the assembly and forget about it.  This is
getting very annoying. (Almost every other `89 GT I've seen has had this problem.)

Vel
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Vel Natarajan  nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL  --
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103266
From: ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important?s


In a previous article, jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) says:

>jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:

>>In article <1r1jr9$m1v@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>>tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes:
>>>I figure that 30mph collisions into brick walls aren't common enough
>>>for me to spend that much extra money for protection, but there are
>>>lots of low-speed collisions that do worry me.

>>Get into an 30+ mph accident and you may reconsider. I've been in one
>>and it is *really* scarey. My life is something I value more
>>than a car's looks or handeling. Consider it insurance, it may not
>>happen often but when it does, you'll sure be glad you got a safe car.

>>Granted the tests aren't perfect but I'd much rather be in a car that
>>did well in the test than a car that did horribly. 

>You raise a valid point, but again it's a tradeoff -- how much money
>do you want to spend for that kind of protection?  You could buy a
>Volvo, Saab, or 'Benz and get really good crash protection (and other
>luxuries) but you'll pay significantly more for it.  In my case it's
>out of the question because *all* of those cars are beyond my budget.

I've been in two _major_ auto accidents, both were multiple car.  The worst
was a head-on three car collision (T intersection and one person ran a stop
sign).  In both cases I was stopped and had no place to go (and I saw it
coming both times). 

>Even in high-speed head-on collisions the most beneficial item you can
>have is a good old 3-point seatbelt.  Nowadays, at least in the US,
>you get an airbag if you get a 3-point belt so (presumably) you get an
>added safety benefit there as well.  That's something I certainly look
>for and which can be had in inexpensive cars.

If you _really_ want to add safety to _any_ car, simply add a cage to the
car.  They are available and cheap (about $500 in the USA).  Add to that
four or five or six point belts and you will walk away from collisions that
were otherwise not survivable.  but instead of people spending a little
extra money, we get legislation that says the gov't must mandate a minimal
level of protection for everyone. 

One other significant factor in improving one's own safety is to get some
training.  This will improve your safety more than any other single
investment will.  Drive/ride defensively (and that does not mean you have
to be a doddering old stick in the mud).  People here tend to enthuse about
autos more than the average (probably in the top 15th percentile in driving
ability), but still we sometimes overlook the obvious.  I've been to two
driving schools, and three riding schools for my motorcycle.  A very
worthwhile investment (and besides, it was a lot of fun too ;-). 

Safety is what you make of it, just because a carmaker doesn't provide you
with an adequate level of protection doesn't mean you have to leave it go at
that. 


-- 
Al Bowers  DOD #900  Alfa  Ducati  Hobie  Kottke  'blad  Iaido  NASA
"Well goodness sakes...don't you know that girls can't play guitar?"
                                             -Mary Chapin-Carpenter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103267
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?
From: stubbs@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Jerry Stubbs)


Yeah, but I hate to follow them with the exhaust at ground level. Not all
diesels are well maintained, either, it seems they run for so long that
people keep them going long after the top end is worn out.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103268
From: dchan@cisco.com (Derek Chan)
Subject: service indicator of a BMW


Does anyone know how to reset the service indicator of a BMW after changing
the oil yourself?

Also, I have about 3,000 miles on my 525i and so far only one of the five
yellow service indicators went out. That means I don't need oil service until
it reach approximatly 15,000 miles which doesn't make sense to me. Any idea?

PS of cause I did my first oil change at 1,200 miles 


Derek

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103269
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: Bimmer vs Beamer

In article <andrei.735406817@namao> andrei@namao.uucp (Andrei Chichak)  
writes:
> Back when I was building round tail light 2002s they were Bimmers.  It  
was
> only when the (red suspendered, Reganomics generated, quiche eating)  
Yuppies
> got into the market >-( that they became Beamers and the hood ornaments  
started
> disappering.
> 
Yep, that's when I noticed it too. I stopped replacing the hood badge  
after the second or third one (at $12.00 each).

2002 drivers used to flash their headlight at each other in greeting. Try  
flashing your headlights at a 318i driver and see what kind of look you  
get. They usually check their radar detector...they think you're alerting  
them to a cop.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103270
From: Tom Wetzel <twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Old Corvettes / Low insurance?

In article <rjnC5sxMG.JqH@netcom.com> Richard Newton II, rjn@netcom.com writes:
>On a related note, does this seem a sane price for a '67 convertible
>Corvette in good condition? How does one determine these things? My CR
>Used Car magazine doesn't list '67 corvettes :-) Any net wisdom on what 
>to look for/what to avoid? Thanks in advance!

Rich,
	First of all you might want to join the VetteNet (vettes@chiller.compaq
	.com)  during your search/acquisition of the 67.  $20k sounds about 
	right for a wrong engine, condition 3 car.  This means that the car may
	not have significant investment value but could be an excellent driver
	and or hobby car.  You will also want to get a copy of the Corvette
	Black Book immediately.  Don't leave home (to look at Vettes) without it.
	Since you are contemplating spending >$20k, you might want to invest a
	few hours in reading the "Corvette Buyer's Guide" and purchase Noland
	Adams' tape "How to Buy a Corvette."  The tape shows you how to check
	for damage, etc..  There are many many factors that will affect the
	value, road worthiness, and repair expense of your proposed 67.  The
	list is much too long to go into here.  Join the VetteNet where
	there are over 100 current Corvette owners (many with 60s vintage
	vettes) that are available to help you.  The pubs I mentioned above
	are available from Mid-America Designs (800) 637-5533 and several
	other Corvette parts sources.  Good luck!!!
	
	Tom   ('68 327/350hp - '79 Cruiser)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103278
From: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <1993Apr21.100149.1501@rtsg.mot.com>, kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane) writes:
|> As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
|> here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....

In many of our cities, there are traffic signals every 100 feet (unsynchronised,
of course (well here in Ottawa anyway)) and the roads are so congested that 
shifting manually is a real pain in the left foot.  Also, most Canadians are
too stupid to learn how to shift manually (gee, I gotta co-ordinate my two
feet on the clutch, brake _and_ accelerator, and I gotta steer, shift _and_
operate the signals (optional) and radio with my two hands... duh... it 
can't be done).  Also, most North American made cars come with the automatic 
as standard equipment, so why bother with a manual when the car can shift 
for you for no addition money.

|> -- 
|> ___________________________________________________________________ ____/|
|> John Kissane                           | Motorola Ireland Ltd.,   | \'o.O'
|> UUCP    : ..uunet!motcid!glas!kissanej | Mahon Industrial Estate, | =() ()=
|> Internet: kissanej@glas.rtsg.mot.com   | Blackrock, Cork, Ireland |    U

-- 
Doug Zolmer  Internet: dwjz@bnr.ca  Disclaimer: My opinions only   1 3 5
Bell-Northern Research Ltd.  Ottawa, Ontario, Canada               |-|-|
Dept. 7N61 - Service Control Point - Routing Services Design       2 3 R

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103279
From: gough@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (brian.w.gough)
Subject: 4X4 On/Off-Road Rally - Joliet Il.



************************************************************
*                                                          *
*      ATTENTION ALL FOUR WHEEL OFF ROAD ENTHUSIASTS       *
*                                                          *
*         On/Off Road Rally - Sunday, April 25th           *
*                   Joliet Illinois                        *
*                                                          *
************************************************************

The Event:

* The Joliet Mud Turtles, a Chicago land four wheel drive club, is
  sponsoring an On/Off Road Rally Sunday April 25th.

* For those who ask "What is an on/off road rally?", well...

  An On/Off Road Rally consists of the following:

   1. An on-the-road rally where participants are given a set of
      directions and clues guiding participates around the 
      Joliet/Plainfield area.  The object is to navigate a course
      based on a set of directions and clues.  Participants will
      be given a set of questions pertaining to the course which
      they must answer along the way.  Points are awarded for the
      number of correct answers given.  Directions will ultimately 
      lead to an off-road area where a four-wheel drive course is 
      set-up.  At various locations in the on-road course, check-points
      will be set-up where participants will be asked other questions
      or requested to perform some activity (e.g. tire roll, truck tow,
      basketball free-throw, etc.) for additional points.

   2. An optional off-road, four wheel drive course where participants
      will navigate off-road trails, mud bogs and/or hill climbs.
      Points are awarded for successfully navigating off-road obstacles
      without getting stuck.  If you should get stuck (which is half
      the fun anyway), there will be assistance to get your vehicle
      unstuck so you can try it again.  The off-road course will
      divided up based on tire size, so stock 4x4s as well as modified
      4x4s can run the course.
     
  At the end of the rally, trophies will be awarded to top scoring
  participants.  Door prizes and dash plaques will also be given out.
  Food and drinks also available at the conclusion.

* This is an organized activity sponsored by the Joliet Mud Turtles
  so safety and fun is our foremost concern.  All 4x4s must be
  street legal and have solid tow points for the off-road section
  of the course - we don't want to have to separate someone's bumper
  from their vehicle :) .

The Particulars:

* Rally begins at Instant Replay, 2409 Plainfield Road, Joliet Il.
    (815)436-9382   (see map below)
* Registration is between 9 and 10:30 a.m.  First truck out at 10:00 a.m.
* Rally date is Sunday April 25th, rain or shine
* There is an entry fee of $10 per truck.
* You must have a co-driver (passengers allowed)
* A valid drivers license is required
* Suggested equipment:
      CB Radio
      Compass
      Tow Strap and Clevis
      Clip Board and Pencil
* No alcohol during rally
* For more information contact
   Gary (815)727-3415
   Tom  (815)485-9346
   Norm Jr. (815)741-4853
   Brian (708)979-6083


                                            __
              Instant                      /\
      |       Replay |             |         \
      | 1.9mi  ___   | 1.2 mi      |        North
      |<----->|   | <------------> |
 Rt30 |       |___|  |             |
------|---------------------------------------------
 Exit |              |             |         ^
 257  |              |             |         |
      |              |             |         |
      |Rt55          |Canton       |Larkin   |
      |              |Farm         |Ave      |
      |              |Rd.          |         | 3 mi.
      |              |             |         |
      |              |             |         |
      |                            |         |
      |                            |         |
      |       Rt80                 |         v
----------------------------------------------------
      |                            | Exit
      |                            | 130B
      |                            |
   

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103280
From: hacker@cco.caltech.edu (Jonathan Bruce Hacker)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger) writes:

>In article <1993Apr15.222600.11690@research.nj.nec.com>  
>behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna) writes:
>>  ...
>> 	Several chemists already have come up with several substitutes for
>> R12.  You don't hear about them because the Mobile Air Conditioning  
>Society
>> (MACS), that is, the people who stand to rake in that $300 to $1000 per
>> retrofit per automobile, have mounted an organized campaign to squash  
>those
>> R12 substitutes out of existence if not ban them altogether (on very  
>shaky
>> technical grounds, at best, on outright lies at worst).
>>  ...

>Now, I'm not saying you're wrong because I know that the R-12 substitutes  
>exist, but this sounds a lot like the 200mpg carbs that the oil companies  
>keep us all from getting.

These substitutes exist, and at this time are available. Its the future
availability that is in doubt.

1) GHG-12

Get it from People's Welding Supply 800-382-9006


2) butane/propane  

You can mix this yourself so no one can ever regulate it away.
Just make sure you use good quality (dry) gases.


I don't know of any 200mpg carb distributors :-)
-- 
Jon Hacker                         |  Get the OS/2 2.1 March Beta CD-ROM 
Caltech, Pasadena CA               |  for $20  ---  Call 1-800-3-IBM-OS2 
hacker@tumbler-ridge.caltech.edu   |  Read about it in comp.os.os2.beta

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103281
From: nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625)
Subject: wife wants convertible


HELP!!!
my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
We live in South Fla., so we are definitely in the right are for one.
My wife has mentioned the Miata, but I think it is too small.
I would like to wait for the new Mustangs ( Dec. '93 I think).
Anyone have any opinions on any/all convertibles in a reasonable price range.

                                           Thanx

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103282
From: vinlai@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (vincent.lai)
Subject: Third party car antennas ...


Since this posting, I've received no replies or followups, so I'm posting
here hoping for the feedback I didn't get in rec.audio.car:

article number - 9855
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Path: cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com!vinlai
From: vinlai@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (vincent.lai)
Subject: Third party car antennas ...
Message-ID: <1993Apr13.202333.28657@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 20:23:33 GMT

I recently saw a particular third party antenna on a new Camry (not mine,
but it caught my interest) and a new 626.  It seems to replace the
factory power antenna and is about a foot long made of plastic tubing.  I
have seen them on quite a few cars, but I can't find anything more about
them in previous r.a.c articles nor in r.a articles.

I'd like to know all I can, so any feedback is greatly appreciated.

------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mom, we're hungry!" - Bud Bundy        "Why tell me?" - Peg Bundy

Vincent Lai

vinlai@cbnewsb.att.com forwards mail to
vlai@attmail.com which eventually winds up in
wcmnja!lai@somerset.att.com
------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103283
From: ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers)
Subject: Re: Too fast


In a previous article, tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) says:

>In article <1qh61m$b6l@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>Compare either to the Porsche 911 and you tell me which was designed
>>to go fast.

>you have a point about the brakes, especially seeing as how the
>mustang doesn't even have disc brakes in the back.  
>but there are significant differences between the latest 911s and
>the late 80's 911s, not the least of which is handling.  i'm not
          ^^

I think you mean late '60s.  The biggest change that Porsche undertook to
alter the tailhappieness of their baby was way back in August 1968 (for the
'69 model year) when they stretched the wheelbase.  Besides, some people
actually _KNOW_ how to take advantage of oversteer, and enjoy it.

>in europe.  the 911 got low marks for high speed handling (though to
>be fair, they might have been comparing it to the vette's handling).
                                                   ^^^^^

>what was that phil hill (famous race car driver) said about the
               ^^^^ ^^^^

You should have seen what Phil Hill (_*WORLD CHAMPION*_) had to say about
the Vette's he's driven. 

>911 turbo?  you can't make a thoroughbred out of a pig, but you can
>have an awful fast pig.
         ^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^

Yeah, that was what he said.  :-)

Paul Frere agreed.  They both prefered the Porsche (modified by Ruf) to
either of the Vette's at that test. 


-- 
Al Bowers  DOD #900  Alfa  Ducati  Hobie  Kottke  'blad  Iaido  NASA
"Well goodness sakes...don't you know that girls can't play guitar?"
                                             -Mary Chapin-Carpenter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103284
From: chriss@netcom.com (Chris Silvester)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <1993Apr16.193553.27118@mksol.dseg.ti.com> a207706@moe.dseg.ti.com (Robert Loper) writes:
>In article <C5L8rE.28@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr15.232412.2261@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us> david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang) writes:
>>
>>I would be willing to bet that if we removed the automatic
>>transmissions from all "performance-type" cars (like the 5.0l
>>Mustangs, Camaros, and the like) we'd cut down on the number of
>>accidents each year. Autos are fine for sedate little sedans,
>>but they have no business in performance cars, IMHO.
>>
>>				James
>>
>I have to disagree with this.  I have a 92 Z28 with a 350 and a 4-speed auto
>w/ overdrive, and it is really better that way.  Chevy autos are reknowned
>for their long life and ability to handle copious amount of power.  I live 
>in the Dallas area, and a manual would be much harder to drive in the traffic 
>here.  Now if I still lived out in the sticks like I used to, a manual would be
>more fun.  
>
I don't know if it's as much an issue of their ablility to handle the
power as it is the power they lose (in the torque converter, etc).

>Safety-wise, an auto is less distracting...I would hate to have to be    
>shifting gears while I was trying to ease into traffic in the freeways here.
>Performance-wise, I can hold my own against any stock 5.0 Mustang or 5.0
>Camaro w/ a five speed.  
>
However, if you encounter a '93 Formula with 5.7L & 6-Speed Manual,
You'll be SOL, I'm afraid. ;) BTW, I know of what I speak as a former
owner of a 5.7L Auto IROC (1989) and current owner of the
aforementioned car... 
 
Chris S. 
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Silvester      | "Any man capable of getting himself elected President
chriss@sam.amgen.com |  should by no means be allowed to do the job"
chriss@netcom.com    |   - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103292
From: sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.


In article <C5LMtr.Mo7@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Za
uberer) writes:
>>>In article <1qgi8eINNhs5@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca>, yiklam@unixg.ubc.ca (Yik Chong
Lam) writes:
>>>|> Hello,
>>>|>     Does anyone know how to take out the bolt under the engine
>>>|> compartment?  Should I turn clockwise or counter?  I tried any kind
>>>|> of lubricants, WD-40,etc, but I still failed!
>>>|>     Do you think I can use a electric drill( change to a suitable
>>>|> bit ) to turn it out?  If I can succeed, can I re-tighten it not too
>>>|> tight, is it safe without oil leak?
>>>|> Thank you very much in advance------  Winson

Don't worry about leaks.  Don't worry about which way to turn the damn thing.
Take a good claw hammer and pry it straight out.  Now, you'll notice, after
all the oil pours out, that there are no theads where there used to be.

Thats why 'heli coils' were invented.  Yes, buy a few of these gems, and
rethread the hole a little larger each time you change the oil.
When the hole gets too big for any heli coil you can buy, its time to trade in
the car...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103293
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qmcih$dhs@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>They light the highways in Texas?  Funny, everywhere else I've been
>they only light 'em at junctions.

	And armadillo crossings.

>Texas is pretty much an edge-case -- you can't assume that everywhere
>has roads in such good condition, such flat terrain, and such
>wide-open spaces.  It just ain't so.

	Well, let's see, in just my own _personal_ experience there's
Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Wyoming, Utah, South Dakota, Nebraska, 
Minnesota, Montana, Florida, and parts of Louisianna.

	Nobody said "Let's go into town and drive 130 on Main St."
And you couldn't go that fast on the graveled washboard that passes
for highway in some parts.  But that "only really expensive cars should
be driven fast" crap, is, well, crap...

								wr



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103294
From: marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

 Remember roads in America are NOT designed for speeds above 80 meaning they
would be safe at 55-65. Roads like the Autobahn are smoother, straiter,
wider and slightly banked. 

Example: A few months back I was traveling late at  night ( 3:00 am or so)
and I was changing highways at a bent crosssing. It  curved off to the south
east becoming hidden by trees after about 1,000 ft and continued to the
left strait north. I wanted to turn north, checked the south lane, rolled
into the crossing and checked the north lane. Nevertheless there wasn't 
a car in sight, so I took one last look and pulled into the left hand lane.
Now my car isn't a 5 sec 0-60 performer but I was in the corect lane and 
over 40 in decent time, even at 3:00 I wasn't wasting time. It was then
that I checked my mirror and saw a Mustang closing in my lane *FAST*, he 
had just turned the corner and was just noticing me. Luckly he saw me and 
changed lanes in time, I estamate he was moving in excess of 90 or so.
I was just a by stander, I had no chance of runing from him, or moving out 
of his way. I'm glad he saw my brake lights in time. I shudder to 
think of what would have happened had I wainted to pull out and not 
left the time he needed to dodge me.

Rule: Just because your car can do 100+, and  your way is clear,
don't assume it will stay that way.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      TRAVIS disclamer: the ideas expressed above are in fact the same as 
                        my employer, since I have none |-)
           e-mail, flame, at : marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103295
From: thorn@wam.umd.edu (Thornwall)
Subject: Q: Dings in the paint on my hood  :(


Hello,
 
I have a 92 Toyota 4X4 and in the last few weeks I have been getting quite
a few "dings" :( in the paint on the hood from rocks and debris off of the
road. I have never had any major problems with other car/trucks in the past
(maybe a ding once in a while). I went to the dealer and he said that it
happens all of the time and he recomended putting a bug deflector on the
hood. He said that the trucks, for some unknown reason, seem to have this
problem more than some cars.? 

It seems to me that either my luck is really bad or there might be a problem
with the paint (painted on a monday morning perhaps?). 
 
How well do these bug deflectors work for small road debris on trucks? 
 
If anyone has any experiences/suggestions please let me know, thanks.
 
--Greg 
 
thorn@wam.umd.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103296
From: schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: RFI:Art of clutchless shifting

I'm wondering if anybody else out there is a clutchless shifter? I've been
doing it my self over 200,000 miles, on my current toyota truck I've got
over 150k. I've heard people talk about how doing this can damage a
transmission. My experiences suggest otherwise. What techniques do you use?

On some old pieces of junk I drove, the transmission was so
worn that pumping the clutch was the only way to shift, except clutchless.
To date I've driven rabbits, datsuns, comets, fords & a chevy. Some where
harder than others to shift but generally the higher the milage the smoother
quicker & easier they where to shift.

My technique is to ease back off the throttle and at the same time gently
wrist back on the shift lever. If for some reason I miss the shift window,
I lightly press the accelerator & try agian. I've found that clutchless
shifting is eaiser/quicker at high rpms (4000-7000). I also skip gears some
times using 1-3-5 ,1-2-4-5. 

krispy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103297
From: jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim)
Subject: Re: BRAINDEAD Drivers Who Don't Look Ahead--

>In article <1993Apr14.140642.19875@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:
>anybody is going anywhere. So, I block the would-be passers. Not only for my own
>good , but theirs as well even though they are often too stupid to realize it.

Ah, we are looking for good people just like you. We are a very concerned
group of citizens who are absolutely disgusted at the way that the majority
of drivers simply disobey traffic rules like going above the speed limit,
passing on our right, and riding our tails, while all the while we respectfully
abide by the rules of this great country and maintain the mandated speed
limits with our calibrated, certified cruise controls, while keeping the
respectful 1.5 car length distance/10 mph speed. How many times have you been
ticked off by some moron who jumps ahead in the (5.5 * 1.5)8.25 car lengths 
that you have left between you and the vehicle ahead of you while driving
55 mph? Finally you have an option. We are a totally member supported group
that perform functions for our own good, for the good of this great country  but MOST of all for those unfortunate ones that are too stupid to realize it,
bless their souls. For a paltry $10, you can join Citizens for Rationally 
Advanced Piloting(C.R.A.P), a non-profit, members only, society. But, but,but,
there is a slight hitch, the initiation rite. To be a full fledged member of
this exclusive club, you must proof that you are able to be in the fast lane of
the busiest interstate in your area, keep the correct 1.5 car lenth/10 mph speedand I know this can be difficult with those morons around, NOT let anybody pass
you, not in the next lane, not in the slow lane, not in the breakdown lane,
not NOWHERE. For a complete list of acceptable interstates and times, send $5.
And by the way, over 90% of our members are highly regarded attorneys in the
auto field and they are completely, absolutely positively in the business ONLY
to serve your best interests. As a testament to their virtues, they will give
members 90% off the initial consultation fee. Feel free to drop me a line at
your earliest convenience and remember, only SPEED kills!

Jit





Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103298
From: cheekeen@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Desmond Chan)
Subject: Any info on Merc 300E 2.6


 
                                                      cheek.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103299
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

petebre@elof.iit.edu (BrentA. Peterson) writes:
>jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
>>jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Bald Runner") writes:

>>>I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
>>>that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
>>>will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
>>>way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
>>>100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
>>>Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
>>>there hear anything about it recently?

>>If everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but "re-
>>skinning" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications.
>>And the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job
>>of it.
>>The "new" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car.

>gee.... is it 1999 already?
>Yes, it will still be on the fox program chasis, anything that will be differe
>nt on the new car as far as mechanical's is unknown. The suspension will most
>likely be changed, as well as the drive drain. From what has been printed on
>it, there is no clear idea of what will be done, as some say it will have
>the modular V8 and others the current small block... just have to wait and see
>Also is far as styling goes from what I seen is good, a return to tradition.
>C scoop on the sides and roof line much like a '65 or '66 fastback.

You know, I'm a Ford fan, I must say, so I'm looking forward to the next
Mustang.  I have faith that it will be a fine product, more desireable
than the Camaro is now.  You know, that's MHO.  

The differences these days between Ford and GM are not so much the quality,
just the philosophy.  It used to be quality _and_ philosophy.  GM is
barely catching up, but they have more room for improvement that
can only be made up in time.  STSs still come off the assembly line
with screwed up paint stripes and poor trunk/door/hood/panel alignments;
it's those 75 year old plants.  And the latest GM products still come
with the standard equipment RattleDash (tm).  But like I said, they're
getting better and making the move in the right direction.

They beat Ford to the market with the Camaro/Firebird, but really only
in words.  Production of these vehicles will be limited until the
end of the year, keeping selling prices above MSRP for the most part
since there are so many twitching Camaro fans out there.  I wouldn't
press Ford to hurry the Mustang since the final wait could be worth it.
Besides, no bow-tie fanatic is gonna buy the Mustang anyway.

I do not put much stock in the mag rags' "inside" information, or even
Ford rep quotes.  The Taurus was pretty much a surprise when it was
finally disclosed in it's entirety.  "Inside" information had the
Taurus with a V8 and rear-wheel drive at one point.  I wouldn't look
for a simple re-paneled Mustang, folks; you may be cheating yourself
if you do.  There's a lot of potential.  Ford hasn't released a new
car without a 4-wheel IS in 7 years.  The Mustang project has been
brewing for at least 4, right?  A 4-wheel IS could happen.  Those
modular V8's are out there, too.  In the interest of CAFE and
competition, don't rule those out, either.   Your ignorant if you do.
And there are so many spy shots and artist renderings out there,
who really knows what it'll look like?  The Mach III?  Doubt it.
Highly.

The next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car.  It attracts
way more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage
is more embedded in the general public.  Don't lie to yourself and
believe Ford will forfeit that.

I submit that the Mustang will be a success.  Enough to elicit
defensive remarks from some heavy Camaro fans here.  You know,
intelligent, critical spews like, "The Mustang bites, man!"  Some of
you are already beginning.  I predict that the Mustang and Camaro
will be comparable performers, as usual.  I predict that the
differences will be in subjective areas like looks and feel, as usual.
The Camaro is still a huge automobile; the Mustang will retain its
cab-rearward styling and short, pony-car wheelbase.  The Camaro still
reaches out to the fighter pilot, while the Mustang will appeal to
the driver.  The Camaro will still sell to the muscle car set, while
the Mustang will continue to sell to the college-degreed muscle car set.
Both will be more refined (I do think the Camaro is).  There will be
no clear winner.

Unless the Ford gets the 32v, 300hp Romeo.  You don't seriously believe
that it was designed for the Mark VIII only, do you?

:^)

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103300
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:

>>i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
>>(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)

>    Then what is a "Flat-" engine???

flat = 180 deg V = horizonatlly opposed

Usually, it also equals "boxer," however, I think the term is
traditionally reserved for 8's and 12's (and firing order matters).
This was talked about here in r.a many months back; I can't remember
the consensus.

Examples:

Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer.
Porsche's 911 is a flat 6.
Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4.

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103301
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: Changing oil by self.

sorlin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven J Orlin) writes:
>infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew  Infante) writes:

>>You're actually worried about somebody stealing
>>your oil?

>Ahhh yes, Andrew, we meet again...
>...no, not 'stealing' the oil, just draining it as to leave me stranded.

>>C'mon, you think a vandal'll do that?!

>Let me guess, you're from Hudson Ohio??

Hey!  What's this Hudson crap?
Actually, the only place my car has ever been broken into was in Hudson
at my in-laws (in their driveway).  Took my Vuarnets and some change.
Damn kids.

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103302
From: "Arun G. Jayakumar" <aj22+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Honda Mailing list?

Excerpts from netnews.rec.autos: 24-Apr-93 Honda Mailing list? by James
B. Atkins@prism.ga 
>         Is there a Honda mailing list, and if so how do I subscribe to it?

If you look at their magazine ads, they may have a phone number to call
and you can ask for a catalog or to be on the list, etc.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103303
From: dtorok@nynexst.com (-=$>DaveTorok<$=-)
Subject: Re: Looking for Tips for Driving Cross Country

R. Goldstein (rdg@world.std.com) sez:
: As the subject says, I am moving from Mass. to Calif. and will be driving
: mostly on Interstate 80.
: Any advice from folks who have done it before?

- Plan your gas stops in major-city areas to avoid the 25 cent-per-gallon
"only gas station for 50 miles and you're an out-of-towner" surcharge.

- Prepare your car.  Don't forget things like your fuel & air filters.  If
you're loading your car up, consider putting your spare on TOP of your stuff
just in case of a flat.  In my x-country trip, a tire disintegrated in the
California desert & it took me 20 minutes to unload all my stuff to get to
the tire.

- If you have a hatchback, cover all your stuff with a white bedsheet to help
keep the stuff and your car cool, as well as *possibly* avoiding theft.

- McDonalds have good, clean bathrooms.

- invest in a $30 CB & magnetic roof antenna.  It may help if you're stranded,
and you can always ask people for places to stop for food, etc.

- Many times police like to hang out in the 1st 10 miles after you enter a
new state, to catch all the speeders who have "escaped" the previous state.

- Same as above; when you enter a 55mph city zone after hours and hours of
65mph rural interstate

-=$>Dave<$=-

-- 
-=$>DaveTorok<$=- [torok@nynexst.com][914-644-2378][FAX:914-644-2404] JUGGLE!
NYNEX Science & Technology, 500 Westchester Ave, White Plains, NY 10604

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103304
From: mauritz_c@spcvxb.spc.edu
Subject: Weird problem with GM 4-banger transmission

I'm having an interesting problem with my girlfriend's car.  Before
I delve into its innards, I thought I'd check "net.wisdom" on the
subject. :)

It's a 1985 Buick Skyhawk (I know...I know)
2.0l EFI 4-banger
auto
35k miles

When I drive tha car long enough to get it hot (especially at
highways speeds) the transmission has this nasty habit of
getting "stuck" in 3rd gear.  As a result, when you stop for
a light the motor stalls.  Putting the car in park, and waiting
for 30-60 seconds before restarting sometimes allows the transmission
to "reset" and go back into 1st.  Otherwise, it just stalls when
put in drive.  

My thoughts:  Either it the 3rd gear band is binding and getting
stuck when it gets hot (not so likely) or perhaps the lock-up
converter is not disengaging properly (seems likely).  The least
likely (keeping fingers crossed) is that some critical vacuum
hose has broken/cracked and this behaviour is due to lack of
vaccuum somewhere (as used to happen with old modulator valves).

My background is that my father owns a service station and
I worked there on and off from 10-19 years of age.  Please
feel free to be as technical as you want. :)

I'd appreciate hearing any tips/suggestions/offers of free
beer. <grin>

Skoal,

Chris

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103306
From: mani@raunvis.hi.is (M'ani Thorsteinsson)
Subject: Lois Chevrolet?


        I was whatching The History Of The Indy 500 the other day,
and early in the film, around the '10-'20's, a name, Lois Chevrolet,
came out of the blue. I wanted to know if he is THE Chevrolet founder
or mearly a driver who's name was called the same as the other guy's?:^)

                                                KONI.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103307
From: sgs1679@ucs.usl.edu (Sudhindranath Sira G)
Subject: HELP!!!! (Mercury Capri Query).

Hi Folks,

I recently bought a 1981 Mercury Capri (my first car ever!).
I have noticed a few problems with the car :

	1. It gives very low gas mileage (something like
           11 miles / gallon ; I hear other car owners speak of
           gas-mileage figures like 25 miles/gallon (wow!) etc.).

	2. When I start the car, it goes into high idling (something
           like 1500 (or is it 15000 ?) rpm. After driving 4 or 5 miles, 
           it comes down to 300 (or 3000?) rpm. 

I would like to know if there is any way by which I can fix these
problems. Or is it natural for an old car like this ? (it has
done about 117,000 miles). Someone suggested that I change/rebuild/
recondition the carburettor. I am not prepared to do it
unless I am sure it will fix the problem. And yes, I got the
car tuned-up recently (within the last 200 miles or so).

Please let me know if you have any suggestions. Please respond
by email since I don't scan this newsgroup regularly.

Thanks.

Regards,

--Sudhi.

-- 
Sira Gopinath Sudhindranath. email : sudhi@ucs.usl.edu.

"Is he one of us or is he one of them ?" ---- so ask small-minded men.
Those of noble mind think the entire world as their family. [Hitopadesha]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103308
From: sehrlich@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Scott R. Ehrlich)
Subject: Help find Stolen Car


I offered to relay this information for a ham friend of mine without
Internet access:

His name is Robert (Bob) Wondolowski, N1KDA, and his car was a 
1985 Brown Cutlas Sierra Sedan, Massachusetts plate 716ADL.

His HT (Yaesu FT415) and mobile antenna were also included in the car.
It was stolen from Lynn, Mass. about 10 days ago (being on April 6).

If anyone has any information about the car's whereabouts, please e-mail
me.

Thank you for taking the time to read this message.


===============================================================================
| Scott Ehrlich 	       Internet: wy1z@world.std.com                   |
| Amateur Radio: wy1z          Packet Radio: wy1z@k1ugm.ma.usa.na	      |
===============================================================================
-- 
===============================================================================
| Scott Ehrlich 	       Internet: wy1z@world.std.com                   |
| Amateur Radio: wy1z          Packet Radio: wy1z@k1ugm.ma.usa.na	      |
===============================================================================

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103309
From: plkg_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Paul K. Gloger)
Subject: Subaru Shop manuals for sale


o Subaru Service Manuals ................................... $10.00
     This is not a complete set, but includes sections 4, 5 
     & 6 which cover MECHANICAL COMPONENTS (suspension, wheels 
     & axles, steering, brakes, pedals & control cables, heater 
     & ventilator, air conditioning), BODY (body & exterior, 
     doors & windows, seats, seat belts, interior, instrument 
     panel), and ELECTRICAL (engine electrical system, body 
     electrical system, wiring diagram, and trouble-shooting). 
     These are the genuine Subaru issue manuals.  They are for 
     model year 1986, but have plenty of good information that 
     applies to other years as well.


And, as long as I'm posting (end of car stuff),

o Miscellaneous Darkroom Equipment ........................ $75.00
     Solar enlarger (several objective lenses) with easel and 
     timer, negative carriers for 35mm and 2 1/4 x 3 1/4, misc.
     printing masks.  Developing tanks, thermometer, trays, 
     constant-temperature bath, ground glass, mirrors, darkroom
     lamps, glassware, el-cheap-o tripods..... and (as they say)
                             MUCH   MORE!


o Beautiful Antique Buffet ............................... $1500.00
     Solid cherry (no veneer).  Handmade, with very interesting
     dovetail corners in the drawers.  Built (we think) around 
     1880.  Not gaudy or covered with gew-gaws; a simple, elegant 
     piece of furniture, but too big (60" long, 37" tall, 24" 
     deep) for our little Cape Cod house.


Will deliver pricier items (ie, over $10) anywhere in the Rochester 
area.  (And will consider delivering the others.)  Will deliver any 
of it on UofR Campus between now and graduation.

Call or E-Mail:   Paul or Mary 
                  (716) 359-2350  (Just south of Rochester, NY)
                  plkg_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103310
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Subject: Re: Auto air conditioning without Freon

In article <1993Apr22.195519.11104@convex.com> tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:
>
>Better still, years ago they demonstrated a cold air system which only used
>"air". It was called a Rovax. The unit worked very well, the short coming
>was the seal technology. Where is it today?

Actually the company, and the product was ROVAC - which stood for
ROTary Air Conditioning..it used a rotary compressor with what
was effectively an air/air heat exchanger, and worked pretty well.
The negatives were mostly that it was about 5-10% less efficient than
using freon, and noise problems from the high velocity/pressure air,
all of which were solved by the time the company went bankrupt.  It
is still a legal entity in Florida, but I believe completely "dead"..
and there's a heck of an opurtunity to buy up it's patents and restart
the operation...


-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103311
From: sdexter@shl.com (Scott Dexter)
Subject: Isuzu Amigo opinions wanted....



Is there anyone out there in NetLand that has/has had one of these?


Can someone give me a non-Consumer Reports review (or point me to a source) ???


Thanks
Scott

-----------------------
sdexter@ucrengr.ucr.edu
	Computer Science Undergraduate,
	University of California, Riverside
	Internet :  138.23.166.21

sdexter@technet1.shl.com       
  	 Facilities Engineer,
	 SHL SystemHouse, Inc. ,Technology Network
         Internet : 192.75.61.2

	" You say its gonna happen "now"
	  What exactly do you mean?
	  You see I've already waited too long,
	  And all my hope is gone "
					- The Smiths

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103312
From: khalsa@spartanSanDiego.NCR.com (G.K. Khalsa)
Subject: Re: Options that would be great to have...

In article <93Apr16.185510.36600@acs.ucalgary.ca>, parr@acs.ucalgary.ca
(Charles Parr) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> A list of options that would be useful. They can be existing
> options on a car, or things you'd like to have...
> 
> 1) Tripmeter, great little gadget. Lets you keep rough track of
>    mileage, makes a good second guesser for your gas gauge...
> 
> 2) Full size spare
> 
> 3) Built in mountings and power systems for radar detectors.
> 
> 4) a fitting that allows you to generate household current with
> the engine running, and plug ins in the trunk, engine compartment
> and cabin.
> 
> Feel free to add on...

OK...

5) How about a fuel gauge that *really* told you how much fuel was
   left.  Like, "can I make it to where the gas is $1.14 or should
   I get gouged right here at $1.35?"  Accurate to the tenth of a
   gallon would be great.

...............................................................
|                    |   On Contract To:                      |
|     GK Khalsa      |      NCR Engineering and Manufacturing |
|....................|      16550 W. Bernardo Dr.             |
|  (619) 485-2460    |      San Diego, CA 92127               |
!....................!........................................!
!.................g.k.khalsa@sandiego.ncr.com.................!


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103313
From: dhepner@cup.hp.com (Dan Hepner)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?


From: nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan)

>But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
>something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
>diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
>install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
>of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
>different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
>since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
>gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...

The technology Cummins is applying to diesels to comply with
the newer Ca. emissions laws involves three things I know of:

1. All compliant diesels are turbocharged.
2. All use an "aftercooler", which cools the air which was heated
   by compression by the turbocharger (up to about 25 PSI).
3. A gismo on the injector pump which senses the pressurized air
   intake, and limits full delivery of fuel while the pressure is
   low.

No scrubbers, catalytic converters, etc, are used.  The path from
the turbocharger to the exhaust outlet is kept very free.

Interestingly, except for the low-pressure fuel limitation, power output 
and mileage are enhanced by these measures.  One can buy aftermarket
turbos and aftercoolers which generate more power, lots more power,
and these are approved by the CARB.

Dan Hepner

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103314
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: Honda clutch chatter.

In article <185900002@hpindda.cup.hp.com> jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) writes:


> From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 23:08:56 GMT
> Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
> Path: eclipse!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpcss01!hpindda!jimb
> Newsgroups: rec.autos
> References: <185900001@hpindda.cup.hp.com>
> Lines: 16
> 
> It's nice to know that I'm not alone out there when it comes to clutch, etc
> problems on late model Hondas.  If I get a few more supportive responses
> I will take them to my local Honda dealer or maybe send them to the regional
> rep in Southern Calif. for their input on the problem.  Maybe some group
> pressure from Honda owners can be placed on Honda to find a solution, such
> as a retrofit of the clutch?? 
> 
> Or, maybe I'll just sell the blasted vehicle and go back to driving my 10
> year old pick-up which was (now fixed) having clutch problems and caused me
> to look for what I thought would be a trouble-free solution. Ya sure. Not
> to put down Honda or anything - the Accord has performed flawlessly in all
> other areas for its 16,000 miles.
> 
> As it is said "out of all this something will develop!"
> 
> Later folks.

Not alone at all. My old 83 Accord (now in the hands of a sibling) has a much
better engagement of the clutch. Even the old 84 Civic we keep as a beater 
feels better in this aspect. Note that these are cars with 250,000 kms and
140,000 kms respectively. My 90 Prelude blows both of them away in every 
respect except smooth clutch engagement. Of course the Kawasaki is the best
of the bunch but I need more than 2 wheels most of the time.

The Prelude has had a dud clutch from day 1, and after three years and 67,000
kms is no better. Best of luck and feel free to add this to your collection.

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103315
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: Changing brake fluid..is it necessary..

In article <1993Apr23.163129.53125@gmuvax.gmu.edu> lcarr@gmuvax.gmu.edu writes:


> Hi.
>  I've been seeing all these articles about changing
> brake fluid and I am wondering if this is really necessary.
> I have an 86 Toyota Corolla SR5, with 94000 and I am in the

Only if you want to stop. Seriously though, every 2 years you should
have this done. Brake fluid absorbs water over time, the water becomes
steam when the fluid gets hot, and steam compresses. You'll also have
better luck with the longevity of master cylinder, calipers and brake
lines.

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103316
From: "Rajeev T. Chellapilla" <rc4u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: MBenz&Bmw Question

When do the new M.benz "C" class cars come out?
The new nomenclature that MB has adopted will it only apply to the "c"
class cars or will it also apply to the current "s" class cars.
Does any one know what will replace the current 300 class since the "c"
class will be smaller and more in line with the current 190. 
Another question, Is BMW realising a new body style on the current 7
series and 5 series. They seem to be a bit dated to me.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103317
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: horizontally opposed/boxer engines (was: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr24.125621.7311@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
>There are two crank configurations for
>the flat 4; the most common one is probably the crank that is very
>similar to the I4 crank.

which flat 4 engines have I4 style cranks?

>  Comparing those two engines, the I4 and the
>flat 4 have no first order shaking forces or rocking moments.  The
>I4 has a second order shaking force, while the flat 4 has a second
>order rocking moment.  The significant thing about the flat 4's
>second order moment is that it can be easily balanced out by adding
>mass at the ends of the crank.  The I4, however, requires a counter
>rotating shaft with mass to balance out the second order forces.

i am 99.99% sure that subaru (and porsche) use the boxer configuration
and not the inline 4 crank that you analyzed and compared. would you
care to re-evaluate the other case of a flat four?  i think that this
configuration is perfectly balanced as far as primary, secondary
forces and couples are concerned.  i have an article in front of me
that says so.

>Bottom line:  the biggest difference between the engines would probably
>be their intended use.  The flat 4 is easier to fit under low hoods
>and in rear compartments (for mid or rear mounting).  The I4 can be
>mounted transversely to reduce hood length (read: cab forward).
>Other than that, there isn't much fanfare to the differences between
>them, no matter what Subaru ads say.  (Technology shared with
>Porsche.  Indeed.)

the flat four is also shorter than an inline 4, so even if it is mounted
longitudinally it will not take up lots of length.. and a longitudinal
placement is easier for a 4 wheel drive drivetrain.

i think that subaru's ads hold water.  in practice, their flat fours
are noticeably smoother than inline 4s and completely buzz free,
though some may not like its peculiar note.  but as alfa has shown, a
boxer four can produce a spine tingling scream that only the likes of
recent hondas can approach.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103318
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <pebi.735631265@zephyr.aem.umn.edu> pebi@aem.umn.edu (Peter A. Bidian) writes:


> There is another advantage with manuals. You can start the car by pushing it
> and shifting into second gear. This doesn't work with an automatic.
> 
> Peter
> 

Just for the record, read your owner's manual before attempting a push start.
Most manufacturers today do not recommend this (I think the catalytic converter
is the primary reason - unburned gas goes down to it and may ignite when
the converter gets into its operating range).

The best reason for a manual? Because you like to drive one. I find that its
much easier to develop lazy habits in an auto trans car. Remember, pay 
attention out there - stupidity behind the wheel has still taken more people
to the morgue than drunk driving. The problem is that we don't revoke peoples
license for stupidity.

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103319
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr24.150653.8115@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:


> 
> flat = 180 deg V = horizonatlly opposed
> 
> Usually, it also equals "boxer," however, I think the term is
> traditionally reserved for 8's and 12's (and firing order matters).
> This was talked about here in r.a many months back; I can't remember
> the consensus.
> 
> Examples:
> 
> Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer.
> Porsche's 911 is a flat 6.
> Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brian
> 
BMWs boxer twin! (no two wheelers here?) Been around since 1923. I think the
other examples are Johnny come latelies... I may be wrong so no flames please..

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103320
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr24.150653.8115@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
>Examples:
>
>Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer.
>Porsche's 911 is a flat 6.
>Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4.

i think you got it the other way round: the Ferrari flat 12 is a 180
degree v12 and not a "true" boxer, while the subaru and porsche are
true boxers.  don't know about the vw bug though, but i suspect that
it is also a true boxer.

eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103321
From: glouie@oasys.dt.navy.mil (George Louie)
Subject: Pennsylvania Insurance, Limited Tort Option

Hey all,


I'm looking at buying a new car, but I'm confused about the insurance
coverage.  This also applies to my existing car insurance policy.  Does
anyone understand what the "Limited Tort Option" means.  Will it lower
my rates if I opt to have it, or will it be more expensive if I opt
to have it?  What does it do for me (in layman's terms please)?  Is
it a good deal or should I ignore it?  I'm not the type to sue anyone
at a drop of the hat nor am I the type to report every little ding to
the insurance company as a vandalism claim.  Please help.



Thanks in advance.


George

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103322
From: newton@convex.com (Vicki Newton)
Subject: seeking recommendations for new car purchase

folks,

i am going to be purchasing a new vehicle in the next few months.  i
am trying to hold out until the fall since i have heard that i can
be in a better negotiating position to purchase a '93 right when the
'94s are coming out.  i need something that can comfortably carry
2 adults, 2 kids in car seats, and 2 60-pound dogs.  i can probably
afford something in the 14k-16k range.  i am interested in the SUV's
but am not sure there are any that are decent which i can afford.
i think the ford explorer got good reviews from consumer reports but
is above my $$$ range.  the isuzu rodeo is probably in my price range
but i think consumer reports gave it a big thumbs down.  can anyone
offer any suggestions?  i am hoping for something a little more hip
than the traditional wagon, and the SUVs look like fun (we do a lot of
camping too).

veek


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103323
From: brandt@cs.unc.edu (Andrew Brandt)
Subject: 4Runner and Pathfinder recent changes.

I am interested in finding out how the 4Runner and Pathfinder have
been updated in the past few years.  Like new engine, suspension and
the like.  I noticed that the 1993 and 1992 4Runners are identical,
for example, and was looking into buying a used one.

Any info would be appreciated, esp. models/years to check out or
avoid.

Thx, Andy (brandt@cs.unc.edu)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103325
From: oprsfnx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Stephen F. Nicholas)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

daubendr@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Darren R Daubenspeck) writes:


>> they are pretty much junk, stay away from them.  they will be replaced next
>> year with all new models.  


>Junk?  They've made the C&D lists for years due to their excellent handling and  
>acceleration.  They have been around since about, oh, 85 or 86, so they're not  
>the newest on the lot, and mileage is about five to eight MPG under the class  
>leader.  You can get into a 3.0 L v-6 (141 hp) Shadow for $10~11K (the I-4  
>turbo a bit more), and a droptop for $14~15K.  


 As an ex-Fleet Mgr. of 3000 cars, they were amoung the most trouble free of
all models.  I bought one for my wife.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103326
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector ???

In article <1993Apr10.013011.808@lrc.edu>, burnside_br@lrc.edu writes:
>In article <1993Apr6.225034.7184@opencon.com>, giand@opencon.com (Deepak S. Gia
nchandani) writes:
>> Mubashir Cheema:
>>
>>      Don't buy one, that is the best way to avoid tickets,
>>      I used to have one and whenever a cop would pull me over, see
>>      the thing, give me a ticket.  One time my sister was driving,
>>      and had it in the glove compartment, it was broken, and she
>>      got a ticket.  In 1987, I had received 4 tickets because of
>>      it, one for my sister (so a total of five).
>>
>>      That was five years ago, now I don't have one and Have not
>>      gotten a ticket.  My driving habits have not changed
>>      drastically.  Only two days ago I was going 77 MPH on Highway
>>      with 55 MPH limit, cop saw me, I break a little, nothing
>>      happened (I was driving a Mini-Van, with my family in it).
>>      Otherwise, I have Cutlass Supreme,  which I do 70 most of the
>>      times on the highway.
>>
>>      So basically my opnion is not to get one, if you do get pulled
>>      over, The cop will hear your excuse, but if you have a radar
>>      detecter, he will NOT. (again, this has been my experienc
>
>
>Just get a remote model that is not visible to the cop.  But, be sure to get
>front AND rear sensors...
>
You can also just put the detector off to the side on the dash so the cop
doesn't see it right away...Valentine is the best detector by far (as stated
by Car and Driver) and even tells you what direction the radar is coming from.
 It also gives the amount of "threats" it is picking up, so if you go through
 the same place everyday, and it always goes off there, you can glance at the
 number of "threats" the Valentine is detecting to see if it is a genuine cop.
  It's about $300 and you can only get it factory direct..one problem.
                                            Rob Fusi
                                            rwf2@lehigh.edu
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103327
From: asbestos@nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson)
Subject: For Sale in Evanston, IL: one car


For sale:

1981 Oldsmobile Omega four door.  Gray, power windows, power steering,
power brakes, remote trunk release.  Starts reliably and runs well,
but needs some work.  $400 obo.

For details, email or (708)864-0526.
-- 
Michael A. Atkinson    | There is no try, there is only Dew.
asbestos@nwu.edu       | 
                         
            A Libertarian and an NRA member.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103328
From: smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <Apr21.053718.19765@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:

>if the noise really bugs you, there is nothing else that you can do
>except to sell it and get a V6.

Perhaps a nice used '88 Pontiac Fiero GT?  2.8 liters.

Does anyone know if the motor mounts for the 2.8 and the twin-dual-cam 3.4
liter match?  The 3.4 is supposedly derived from the pushrod 3.1, which was
a punched out 2.8 liter.  Should be a drop-in replacement, eh?  205 horses in
a mid-engine the size of a Fiero?

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want,
it is the freedom to do whatever we are able.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103329
From: troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

RADAR (Radio Association Defending Airwave Rights) says that Geico
insurance not only buy's Radar for police but also actively lobbies
states to promote making Radar Detectors illegal.   I think the
buying part is a misuse of money but the Radar Detector part shows
how little they know about the issue.  No study I am aware of has ever
concluded that detectors have a negative impact on safety or that
users have a higher average speed.  Incompetence by Geico?  I think
so.


Troy Wecker
troy@sequent.com
Sequent Computer Systems
Beaverton, OR


In article <1993Apr21.171811.25933@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
>
>I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
>guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103330
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: Most bang for $13k

In article <23056.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>, david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (Da
vid Bonds) writes:
>In rec.autos, CPKJP@vm.cc.latech.edu (Kevin Parker) writes:
> I'd like to get some feedback on a car with most bang for the buck in the
> $13000 to 16,000 price range. I'm looking for a car with enough civility to be
> driven every day, or even on long trips, but when I hit the gas, I want to fee
l
>
>Take a look at a '91 Taurus SHO - they can be found for ~13k, and are the
>ultimate in 4 door sports cars.  Performance similar to a Mustang, but
>quite civil and comfortable...  Try to get a late model 91 for the better
>shifter.
>
>

>----
>The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us)   A PCBoard 14.5a system
>Houston, Texas, USA   +1.713.466.1525          running uuPCB

>Well, you could always go with a 5.0 Mustang LX with a pleasant V8, but the
diamond star cars (Talon/Eclipse/Laser) put out 190 hp in the turbo models,
and 195 hp in the AWD turbo models,  These cars also have handling to match
the muscle, and are civil in regular driving conditions, rather than having a
harsh, stiff ride....The AWD Turbo is clearly the better choice of the two
(because of all that torque steer on the front drive model), but you may have
to go with a leftover or "slightly" used model for that price range....tough
decision...

        Rob Fusi
        rwf2@lehigh.edu

-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103331
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <Apr21.053718.19765@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>In article <1r1vofINN871@usenet.pa.dec.com> tomacj@opco.enet.dec.com (THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO !!!) writes:
>>	Are there any MR2 owners or motor-head gurus out there, that know why
>>my MR2's engine sounds noisy? The MR2's engine is noisy at the best of times, 
>>but not even a nice nose - it's one of those very ugly noises. 
>
>assuming yours is a non turbo MR2, the gruffness is characteristic of
>a large inline 4 that doesn't have balance shafts.  i guess toyota
>didn't care about "little" details like that when they can brag about
>the mid engine configuration and the flashy styling.
>
>myself, i automatically cross out any car from consideration (or
>recommendation) which has an inline 4 larger than 2 liters and no
>balance shafts..  it is a good rule of thumb to keep in mind if you
>ever want a halfway decent engine.  
>
>if the noise really bugs you, there is nothing else that you can do
>except to sell it and get a V6.
>
>
>eliot

Eliot is right about 2.2 liter engine in the second (and last) generation
MR2's. But the original guy did not indicate the year of his MR2. If it's a
first generation car (like my '85), it has 1.6 liter engine (or perhaps
same engine with a supercharger, if it's '87 -'89).
The sound he describes is common to any older Toyota engine I ever heard.
I don't know the relevance of his observations about oil changes, my simply
makes noise. Not all that annoying, mind you. But you hear it well when the
engine is right behind your left ear :-)
Mike.S

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103332
From: jes@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (john schultz)
Subject: Re: Opinions on 88-89 Pontiac Bonneville

In article <C5uLLq.Ds@acsu.buffalo.edu> v064mb9k@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (NEIL B. GANDLER) writes:
>
>
>  I am in the market to buy a used car. I am particularly
>interested in the Pontiac Bonneville. My budget is between 7-
>8 thousand. Would I be able to afford an 88 or 89. What
>engines were available at this time. I know they didn't
>redesign until the 1992 model year. How is the reliability of
>past models. I would appreciate any advice or information.
>
>                  Neil Gandler

In a word, yes.

1989 Bonnevilles prices (avg. retail):

	Sedan 4D LE       $  7,125
	Sedan 4D SE       $  8,125
	Sedan 4D SSE      $ 10,975



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103333
From: tgardner@athena.mit.edu (Timothy J Gardner)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <1993Apr24.145353.8006@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:

On the subject of the upcoming new Mustang:

>I do not put much stock in the mag rags' "inside" information, or even
>Ford rep quotes.  The Taurus was pretty much a surprise when it was
>finally disclosed in it's entirety.  "Inside" information had the
>Taurus with a V8 and rear-wheel drive at one point.  I wouldn't look
>for a simple re-paneled Mustang, folks; you may be cheating yourself
>if you do.  There's a lot of potential.  Ford hasn't released a new
>car without a 4-wheel IS in 7 years.  The Mustang project has been
>brewing for at least 4, right?  A 4-wheel IS could happen.  Those
>modular V8's are out there, too.  In the interest of CAFE and
>competition, don't rule those out, either.   Your ignorant if you do.
>And there are so many spy shots and artist renderings out there,
>who really knows what it'll look like?  The Mach III?  Doubt it.
>Highly.
>
>The next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car.  It attracts
>way more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage
>is more embedded in the general public.  Don't lie to yourself and
>believe Ford will forfeit that.


The car magazines have printed a lot of information about the new Mustang
and the consensus about what to believe in my "car circle" is that the 
suspension pieces and tuning will be almost identical to the current
Cobra, but on a stiffer body structure which will improve its behavior.
After the MN12 (Thunderbird) cost and weight debacle, Ford decided 
independent rear suspension with rear wheel drive won't be tried again in 
a volume car.  

The current 4.9l V-8 will soldier on for about two years.  A version of
the 32 valve modular V-8 in the Mark VIII could be offered then.  Ford
is spending big money tooling up for 2.5l and 3.5l V-6 engines which will
power most of their cars in the immediate future, and therefore probably
do not consider volume production of 300 hp V-8 engines a priority. 

Undisguised, the car looks OK, but not nearly as exciting as the new
Camaro/Firebird, IMO.  

I suspect Ford will produce their car with higher quality than GM will 
achieve with the Camaro/ Firebird.  The way GM loses money, the temptation
to "just get them out the door" for the sake of positive cash flow will be 
great once demand really takes off.  

Tim Gardner  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103334
From: jp@vllyoak.resun.com (Jeff Perry)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:

> In article <1993Apr22.192652.3032@virginia.edu> jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blad
> >I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
> >that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
> >will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
> >way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
> >100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
> >Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
> >there hear anything about it recently?
> 
> 
> If everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but "re-
> skinning" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications.
> And the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job
> of it.  
> 
> The "new" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car.
> 
> 
> 

I just saw a picture of the '94 Mustang in Popular Mechanics - what 
a disappointment after being bombarded with pictures of the Mach III...

jp

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103335
From: C465353@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Jim Struglia)
Subject: Michelin TRX tires--info needed

Hi all,
I have available to me a set of Metric wheels (came off a Mustang or T-Bird)
which are wearing nearly-bald Michelin TRX 220-55R390 tires.  The only place
I have found these tires is the Tire Rack mailorder place for $121 a pop.
Is there a cheaper source, or another manufacturer of this size tire?  Thanks
for any info...please E-Mail responses and I will post a summary if there is
any interest.
 
     JAS
 
JIM STRUGLIA   C465353@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU
 
               C465353@MIZZOU1.BITNET
 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103336
From: steve@ipecac.wpd.sgi.com (Uncle Wiggily in Connecticut)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?

In <1r3n32INNk9p@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) writes:

>In article <1993Apr21.032905.29286@reed.edu>, rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr20.174246.14375@wam.umd.edu> lerxst@wam.umd.edu (where's my  thing) writes:
>>> It was called a Bricklin.

>>Bricklins were manufactured in the 70s with engines from Ford.

>Waitaminnit, didn't the Bricklin have an Pugeot six-cylinder?  Or am I
>confusing it with the DeLorean?  I was sure the DeLorean had a v8.

The Delorean used the Peugot/Renault/Volvo V6 in a rear engine configuration.
The Bricklin use some 'Merkin iron in a front engine/rear drive configuration.

--
steve valin		steve@sgi.com
	I've just had my brain washed and I can't do a thing with it

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103337
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <C5uI6u.Ao0@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.171811.25933@julian.uwo.ca> wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>>
>>In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>>>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>>>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>>>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>>>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
>>
>>I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
>>guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).
>
>
>Geico has purchased radar guns in several states, I know they have done
>it here in CT.
>
>I have also heard horror stories about people that have been insured by Geico
>for years and then had 1 accident and were immediately dropped.  And once
>you've been dropped by any insruance company you become labled a high
>risk, and end up forking out 3 or 4 times what you should be for insurance.

This must vary from state to state, because our old company Kemper wanted
to drop me (keeping my wife) or tripple our premium because i had 1 ticket.
Only 2 points for 10 mph over speed limit.  Well i called Geico, and they
insured both my wife and i for less then we were previously paying
Kemper.

Generally i hate the whole insurance game. I realize that it is necessary
but the way that a person can get dicked around doesn't make any sense.

One good thing about Geico is that everything can be handled over
the phone.


>
>My suggestion, stay where you are, or shop around but STAY AWAY from Geico!
>
>Jeff
>
>

                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -            1990 2.0 16v           -


       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103338
From: amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <1993Apr15.155325.6329@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, nancy@hayduke (Nancy
 Feagans) writes:
>Ashtrays and cigarette lighters.  These should be an *option*.
>
>--
>
>Nancy J. Feagans     (818) 306-6423
>Jet Propulsion Lab   nancy@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
>"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."
>

You forget that the cigarette lighter plug is essential for plugging in radar
detectors and lights. The ashtrays are also essential because they are great
places to keep change and tokens.
Al H.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103339
From: ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate)
Subject: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?


  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
have v engines.

V4 - I don't know of any.
V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
V8 - Don't know of any.
V12 - Jaguar XJS


 Please add to the list.


 Thanks,
 -S
 ssave@ole.cdac.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103340
From: ah301@yfn.ysu.edu (Jerry Sy)
Subject: are Ford shop manuals good ?


I am planning on buying a repair manual for my ford taurus. (92).
Is the $53 Ford shop manual comprehensive  enough , covering repairs
in all aspects of the car ?



how about the haynes manual for tarus ?

please email replies if possible.

thanks in advance.
jerry


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103341
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important? 

In article <CONRADIE.49.735390036@firga.sun.ac.za> CONRADIE@firga.sun.ac.za (Gerrit Conradie) writes:

[Much discussion about economics of safety deleted]

>Safety is an important criterium for me when buying a car. I won't buy a 
>small car like a Civic or whatever.
>
>Great = Safety + Handling + Speed  -  for me
>
>Seems to me that you would be more "dead" in a small car than a large car 
>after an accident.

This is a very simplistic view of safety. Assuming that you are in a collision
(less likely with a more agile smaller car), then the important factor
is how well does the car sacrifice itself to save you. This is why a thousand
pound F1 car can hit a wall at 200 and the driver walks out and why
everybody dies when a Suburban hits a wall at 35 (as I recall for the last
generation Suburban HIC numbers). 

As an aside, just what is the point of an airbag? It seems to me that
seatbelts with pretensioners (Audi et al), or a good tight 5 point belt 
will prevent you every moving far enough to hit the airbag. You might be

saved from some flyign glass? Or is an airbag just a lowest common denominator
safety device that is of some use in a head on collision when you are
wearing no seat belt? 

Craig
>
>- gerrit
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103342
From: ae045@Freenet.carleton.ca (Mike Harker)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?


You guys are correct.  The Bricklin was produced in Canada.
The National Museum of Science and Technology here in Ottawa
has one, and sometimes they put it on display.  Most of the time,
it stays in storage because the museum doesn't have much room.
It's a big deal for a car to be Canadian and that's why they 
have it.  If anybody's a fan, they also have a nice green '73
Riviera that looks like it just came out of the showroom.
-- 
MIKE HARKER
OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA
VOICE: 613-823-6757
-- 
Paul Tomblin (formerly pt@geovision.gvc.com)
Sven's Law: There's exceptions to every law (except this one)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103343
From: v064mb9k@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (NEIL B. GANDLER)
Subject: Need info on 88-89 Bonneville


 I am a little confused on all of the models of the 88-89 bonnevilles.
I have heard of the LE SE LSE SSE SSEI. Could someone tell me the
differences are far as features or performance. I am also curious to
know what the book value is for prefereably the 89 model. And how much
less than book value can you usually get them for. In other words how
much are they in demand this time of year. I have heard that the mid-spring
early summer is the best time to buy.

			Neil Gandler

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103344
From: cerulean@access.digex.com (Bill Christens-Barry)
Subject: 2 Camrys eating clutch master cyls?

I have both an '84 and an '86 Camry, each with manual 5-speed transmissions.
The '84 has about 105,000 miles on it and the '86 about 83,000 miles.  ABout
a year ago I found that the master cylinder on the clutch in the '84 was        
leaking fluid around the piston seal, leading to air in the system and fluid
back into the passenger compartment of the car.  I pulled the plunger and
got a rebuild kit (new plunger, seal, etc.) and thought I had the problem
licked.  Much to my surprise, the same problem developed several months
later!  This time I looked carefully at the master cylinder to make sure
there were no scratches, burrs, or other obvious causes of the problem.  I
didn't find any.  Ever since I have been periodically feeding the clutch
hydraulins additional fluid and bleeding air from the system.  I knew I
would be selling the car and didn't want to go all the way to solving the
problem.

I should add that the clutch is original, and that I've had to adjust the
pedal to allow maximum extension of the piston into the master cylinder in
order to actuate the clutch.

My hypothesis is that this means that when fully depressing the clutch pedal,
the angle of the piston rod (attached to the pedal) is off the axix of the
cylinder, thus cocking the piston and seal and perhaps deforming it.

What do you think of that as an explanation?  Can you suggest a possible fix
short of replacing the master cylinder and getting a new clutch put in?

Now the '86: same problem, except that the above diagnosis doesn't explain
why all of the fluid leaked out (by way of the master cylinder, into the
passenger compartment) while I was on vacation for 10 days, during which
the clutch pedal was not depressed or otherwise caused to distort.  What
can you suggest here?

Many thanks.  Let's hope I don't end up going to Click and Clack on this...

Bill Christens-Barry
cerulean@access.digex.com


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103345
From: gkirkaldie@sanity.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (George Kirkaldie)
Subject: Re: birds - are they physics majors?

In <C5pn2p.L44@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>, Operator writes:
}Crazy question: "Anyone ever wonder how birds can drop a load on a car
}going over 65 MPH" ?  
}
}I took a non-stop trip, got shitted on FOUR times (every time hitting the 
}windshield, not even the open sunroof!  Guess we have conscientious birds ;)
}Was going 75 MPH.
}
}

I used to have a '67 Galaxie convertible, was sitting at a light waiting
for it to turn green. It turned green, but I hesitated a little (sleeping I
guess) and a bird bombed me, it landed directly in front of me at eye
level, I guess the bird miscalculated and thought I was going to take off
right away.

And I'm still trying to figure out the one I got under my rear bumper as
well ?!?!?! Was the bird flying up and doing fancy acrobatics at my car and
decided to drop one while executing a perfect loop??

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  TT030   |'87 Mustang GT         |George Kirkaldie
   |||    |Pioneer, Audio Control |gkirkaldie@sanity.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
   |||    |Phoenix Gold, Kicker   |
  / | \   |Flowmaster, Motorsport |Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
A T A R I |                       |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103346
From: heiser@acs2.bu.edu (Bill Heiser)
Subject: Auto WAX

Having recently purchased a 93 Probe with clear-coat paint, I 
would like to give it a good wax job.  What is the Best type of
wax to use for this type of finish?  Is paste or liquid better?
I would be waxing it by hand, and buffing it by hand, I guess
using cheesecloth to buff it (anything better you would suggest?).

I've heard comments here before about things like Turtle Wax
and Raindance not being very good, so I'm wondering what is
recommended for a quality finish.

Thanks in advance.
Bill

-- 
Bill Heiser    heiser@acs.bu.edu, heiser@world.std.com
               Boston University, Boston MA   

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103347
From: mcrosbie@batman.bmd.trw.com
Subject: Any Syclone or Typhoon owners out there?

I want to start of list for Syclone and Typhoon owners.  If you are interested
in participating, please contact me via e-mail.

Merrill

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103348
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <1993Apr21.204521.21182@ultb.isc.rit.edu> adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>The sound he describes is common to any older Toyota engine I ever heard.
>I don't know the relevance of his observations about oil changes, my simply
>makes noise. Not all that annoying, mind you. But you hear it well when the
>engine is right behind your left ear :-)

i think those with 1.6 MR2's would describe the engine as sweet if a
little loud, those with 2.2 MR2's i can't imagine any unbiased person
paying it any compliments.  sounded like my ex-dormmate's rusty chevy
chevette.  with the 1.6 i would want to redline it just for the music,
with the 2.2 i would short shift so that it would shut up..  the new
camry 2.2 features balance shafts.  i guess since the mr2 is getting
the axe, it is too late for them to do anything about this..

it is no mystery that the turbo mr2 is "only" 2 liters.. the engineers
had enough integrity to prevent any further abuses.  also, in europe
the MR2 Mk2 non-turbo was also "only" 2 liters.. as usual, the
undiscriminating american market (if it is japanese it *must* be good)
gets the dogs.. to be fair, we also got the turbo, which the europeans
did not.



eliot



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103349
From: heiser@acs2.bu.edu (Bill Heiser)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT)

In article <1993Apr20.124228.5357@ncsu.edu> chuck@eos.ncsu.edu (Chuck Kesler) writes:
>>"Jeremy G. Mereness" <zonker+@CMU.EDU> says:
>>>
>>>Can anyone offer any opinions of the Ford Probe... ala how they do in
>>>the long run, repair records, reliability, mileage, etc?
>>
>Some other owners on the ford-probe@world.std.com mailing list have commented 
>about this problem, but I haven't seen it happen on my 3 month old 
>'93 Probe GT.  I think this may be something that Ford has corrected since 
>the initial batch of cars.  Also, someone said that Ford has issued a 
>service bulletin to inform dealers about how to correct this problem, so you 
>may be able to get your dealer to fix it.

I have had my Probe looked at twice by my local dealer (where I purchased
the car) ... the first time, they made this problem worse.  The second time,
after advising them of the service bulletin mentioned on my ford-probe mailing
list (they said they didn't know of the bulletin), they adjusted the window and
made it *much* better.  However it now makes a "scritch scritch" noise on rough
roads, and *still* squeals when I open/close the window in wet weather (anyone
elses's do this?)

>>Ford only gives 1 key with the car.  C'mon Ford, spend an extra few pennies!

I got two keys with my car, but only ONE remote-entry push-button thingie!
But then, I bought my 93 with 2500 miles, and  I think it may have been a
repossession ... so I'm not surprised something was missing :-(

>>horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in center (personal preference)

I am seriously considering following the advice in the owners manual where
it describes the procedure to follow if "you discover something on your Ford
that could ... cause ... serious injury ... threaten lives ... etc).  Something
about notifying the National Traffic Safety group as well as Ford.  Those little
"you've-got-to-position-the-fingers-perfectly-to-make-it-beep" buttons are
TERRIBLE.
>
>The latter is probably because of the air bag.  It's pretty much takes up
>all the space where you'd expect to find the horn.
>Speaking of the horn, I was surprised to find that the Probe comes with one
>of those nice 'merican sounding horns instead of the Japanese sounding kind.
>The previous Probes had Japanese horns.

Well, I guess that's good in a way, but in a way it's bad.  When someone
hears that kind of horn, they expect to see a big American car.  They may
not associate the sound with a small "jap car" style car (like the Probe is).

>>Tires fling dirt/mud onto side of car 
>Yeah, not very badly, but enough to be annoying sometimes.

The mudflaps help a lot.

>>transmission (the 5 speed is a must)

I have always been a 5-speed guy.  Almost every car I've ever owned has been
a 5-speed.  Because I got a good deal on this car with the 2500 miles, I
(knowingly) overlooked the fact that it has an automatic.  But it is a pretty
high-tech automatic.  It is a fully electronicaly controlled 4-speed with
torque converter lockup.  Even with the automatic, I'm getting 35 mpg on the
highway, driving 65-70!.    (but of course driving > 65 is illegal, so I 
probably made that sentence up).  :-)     Around town the mileage has been
around 25-27, not bad for an automatic.   Of course it doesn't have the
"control" of a 5-speed, but since I do a lot of city driving, it turns out
to be very convenient.  It's nice to be able to drink a cup of coffee and
drive at the same time (although that, too, is illegal here in 
"we-like-to-control-your-life Massachusetts" :-)


>>No shake/rattle noises when going over bumps/potholes (still!)

Shakes and rattles has been my main gripe.  I've gotten them to fix the
worst of them, but I fear that with the rather harsh ride, the car will
be a virtual potpouri of rattles when it gets older.

>>Tires: 225/55VR16 Goodyear Eagles (70% left; hoping for 30K :-)

On my 89 Probe GL, I got about 40K out of the original Goodyears,
and had driven the replacement tires (Bridgestone) 50K miles when
I tradeed the car.  The 195/65(60?)VR14 Firestones on my 93 Probe
look like they're designed for performance (ie rather wide, shallow
tread, etc), so they probably won't last as long.  But the car handles
very very very well.  It sticks to the road like glue, even on a rough
surface.

>interior is very, very nice too.  Very pleasing to the eye, and ergonomically
>sound.

Definitely.  Ford/Mazda did a very very nice job on this one.  The
car has a "much more expensive than it actually is" look and feel to it.

>Yes, this car's stiff suspension isn't for everyone.  I personally like it,
>but if you find it a little harsh but otherwise like the car, I'd strongly
>suggest looking into the MX-6.

Having driven an 89 Probe for 4 years, I find the 93 suspension "interesting".
The car actually drives much better than the 89 ... it is a very firm
ride, and you definitely know about each and every bump in the road.  Yet
the car remains very civilized on even the bumpiest roads.  You Hear and
feel the bumps, yet the car retains its posture very well.

>>If you have 3+ passengers, by all means bring them along too.  They'll find
>>that they have no room in the back and you'll find that the car rides
>>differently (if that's "better" is up to you).  

Well I wouldn't encourage passenger-carrying in the Probe unless the
person in the front seat likes to sit with his knees to the dash.  As
mentioned in the Consumer Reports write-ups, "consider the back seat
as a parcel shelf".  No biggie to me though (if it had been, I'd not
have bought the car!  (but it's definitely not a family car)).

>>Also, there's a lot of glass
>>around you which I wasn't expecting; the temperature inside the car gets pretty
>>hot in the summer.

A/C is a MUST on any Probe from 89 - 93.  The 93 in particular sends out
a REAL BLAST of cool air when the AC is on MAX.  That "lots of glass" you
mentioned is what gives the car the "very good visibility" reports you
see in all the write-ups.  Most "sports/sporty" cars don't have that
good visibility.

>>I've heard that the exhaust system has trouble, but mine works fine.
>I haven't heard about this one.  I know that some of the very early Probes
>('89 and maybe '90) had problems with prematurely rusting mufflers (which

The complaints I've heard re: exhaust system (on 93's) have been on 
the GT.  Of course being a different engine, that is a differeent 
exhaust system.

I was one of those with an 89 who qualified for the free replacement.
Since I had already replaced the muffler when I received the notice, 
I was/am due a refund from Ford.  I applied in February and am Still
waiting.   :-(

>gave me a free rental car for the day and a half that I was without my
>car.  I was quite happy with the way they handled...especially considering
>that I was expecting the worst from them!

Yes.  I was pretty amazed when I had my car in for some touch-up
adjustments this past week, and they had to keep it overnight (too busy
for them to get to it) and they offered to pay for a rental).  They 
did make me pay for taxes and insurance though :-(

>From what I've heard, it sounds like Ford/Mazda had some QC problems with 
>the Probe (and probably MX-6) when they first went into production, but 
>I think these problems have mostly been corrected at this point.  That's
>almost always to be expected with a completely new car like this, though.

I have to agree that they seem to have some QC problesm.  But I seriously
feel the car design is sound, and expect it to do very well.

-- 
Bill Heiser    heiser@acs.bu.edu, heiser@world.std.com
               Boston University, Boston MA   

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103350
From: heiser@acs2.bu.edu (Bill Heiser)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

In article <1993Apr22.000337.10096@news.arc.nasa.gov> chung@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Po Sum Chung ACF) writes:
>>(Tommy Szeto) writes:
>>> Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
>>> once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
>>> under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually  
>>I noticed this is my '89 probe also, when recently cleaning out the back.  I  
>>think the water is coming *up* through some rubber stoppered holes beneath the  
>>spare.  Mine looked slightly worn, and there was no water or water damage 
>I have the same problem with my '90 probe.  The water is definitely not comming
>up from the rubber stoppered hole beneath the spare.  I have to remove the
>rubber stopper to drain the water.  Seems like a common problem with probe.

There is a known problem with the seals on the taillights of <93 probes.
Complain loudly to your dealer and get them to install new seals.  It is
a known problem, present on most (if not all) pre-93 Probes, so you 
shouldn't have to pay them to fix it.  In my case, they fixed it on
my extended warranty (I just had to pay a $50 deductable) (the
work was valued at something like $185 with labor and parts).  Having
removed the tail lamps myself on other occasions, I think their estimate
was fair.


-- 
Bill Heiser    heiser@acs.bu.edu, heiser@world.std.com
               Boston University, Boston MA   

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103351
From: oaddab@stdvax (DIRK BROER)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article <1993Apr19.230010.4937@cactus.org>, boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes...
>In article <C5r43y.F0D@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
>>In article <5265@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>>>
>>>> Remember roads in America are NOT designed for speeds above 80 meaning they
>>                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>would be safe at 55-65. Roads like the Autobahn are smoother, straiter,
>>>>wider and slightly banked. 
>>>
>>>	Well, that's news.  Before 1975 the speed limit on Texas highways
>>>was 75.  The speed limit on the New Jersey Turnpike (I-95) was 70.  There
>>>were no speed limits in Nevada or Montana.
>>
>>I guess I wasn't clear enough here. I said the roads WERE designed for 
>>speeds of 80 or so and still be safe. The current 55-65 will add a saftey
>>margin.
>>
> 
>Actually, the roads were designated as safe at 80 when they were built
>in the 1950's taking into account the kinds of cars then available. The
>number would be much higher today because the cars, tires and just about
>everything else has imprivoved a lot.
> 
> 
I believe the interstates were origionally funded as part of a national 
defense plan etc.  The  requirements were to move heavy army trucks at 
70mph.

Still its amazing in Germany you can have cars traveling 155 mph and 65 mph 
on the same 3 to 4 lane road.  Around Washington DC they can't keep traffic 
flowing at 55.

Dirk

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103352
From: oaddab@stdvax (DIRK BROER)
Subject: Re: Old Corvettes / Low insurance? AND corvette prices

In article <rjnC5sxMG.JqH@netcom.com>, rjn@netcom.com (Richard Newton II) writes...
>In article <1993Apr15.011805.28485@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> swr2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT WARREN ROSANDER) writes:
>>In article <C5Csux.Fn1@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, gdhg8823@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (George Hei
>>nz) writes:
>>>After too many years of school I'm finally graduating and getting a real
>>>job.  Of course I am trying to make plans of how to spend all this extra
>>>money.  Right now I have an 89 accord, a good car, but not real sporty &
>>>I was thinking of selling it in about two years and dropping around
>>>$20k on a sports car of some kind.  After thinking about it, I may have a
>>>better idea -- I'll keep the Accord until it drops and buy the car I've
>>>always wanted -- a Corvette Stingray. My reasoning is that $8000 (accord)+
>>>$8000 (corvette) =$16000 is less than what I would spend anyway.
>>>
>>>Basically, I'm thinking of a late 70's, early 80's for around $7-$10k.
>>>My question is, what are good years to consider (for reliability, looks,
>>>horsepower -- in that order, believe it or not, horsepower is not a main
>>>concern, if I want to go fast, I get on my motorcycle) and what are
>>>good prices?
>>>
'63 to '82 vettes had the same basic chassis. 1980 add aluminum (weaker) 
rear 'axle' housing.  All these years used same brakes, similar springs etc
  Late 70's was a bad year for GM reliability.  Catastrophic converter was 
added in 1975.

Cheapest corvette '78 to '79 low end about 4k tops out about $12k except 
for those morooons that think there '78 indy / 25th aniversity vette is 
special.  These guys have been known to ask 25K.  I don't think they get it
.

Best buy: convertables 69 - 74.  I got my 69 for 5K - needs body work but 
I'm willing.  

Parts for all are readily avail at swap meets and mail order etc.

V-8 reliability / looks / independant suspension / 4 wheel disk and all 
under 10K.  And they thought a miata was a good deal.

>>>Also, what would insurance look like?  I'm male, single, 23 (I might
>>>wait until I'm 25 to get the car = lower insurance). Would the fact that
>>>I mainly drive the other car lower it?  Is there some type of "classic
>>>car" or "rarely driven" insurance class for driving it under 10k miles
>>>per year?
>>>
>>    My dad has a 66 vette and its on what you say 'classic insurance'.
>>    Basically what that means is that it has restricted amount of driving
>>    time, which basically means it cant be used as an every day car and would
>>    probably suit your needs for limited mileage.

My origional inquires to my insurance agent: I can drive my '69 convertable 
for 3000 miles or less per year, I must keep it in a locked garage and it 
will cost me 2% of the stated value per year (does this sound right?).

> 
>I've also been looking at vettes recently, and found a '67 convertible
>that I like at a dealer. I currently own an '88 Ford Escort GT, which
>is insured through State Farm. I called em up, and asked about the rates:
> 
>If I sell the escort, the vette insurance is $401.16 per 6 months.
> 
>If I keep the escort, the vette insurance is $308.82 per 6 months. The
>escort's insurance goes down by 10%, to approx $320 per 6 months.
> 
>I'm 28, male, and have a "good driver" discount. Another variable would
>be where you live. Best bet is to just call up some insurance brokers,
>and get a quote.
> 
>State Farm says they base the price on the "fair market value" of the car,
>which is determined by an outside apprasier. They look in the newspaper,
>and call up dealers to find out what the going rate is, and adjust it for
>the condition of the car.
> 
>To get the values above, they went on the selling price of the car. The
>dealer's asking price is $21,900; I need to do research to find out if
>this is reasonable. In any case, I told State Farm the value was $20k.

Get an appraiser to look at the car. He will check serial numbers and look 
for origional equipe.  Depending on what mods have been done the car could 
be worth only 10K.  Problems like wrong engine / trans.  Wrong paint type (
vetts used lacquer)  An modification would reduce tthe value.  But your 
looking for a car to drive right?

This sounds like a ball park price for a small-block (327 cu in.) / manual 
/ no air car.  A 427 would put it closer to $30K.

Get it appraised!!!  For insurance purposes also.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103353
From: oprsfnx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Stephen F. Nicholas)
Subject: Re: Geico

 I'm glad this forum came up. I've been pricing insurance lately and had        considered GEICO. But no more!! Any company with practices like theirs can
E.S.A.D.!! I'll stay with Liberty mutual.

Steve Nicholas
Wells Computer Center - Georgia State University
oprsfnx@gsusgi1.gsu.edu

 " A RISK IS NOT A RISK UNTIL IT IS TAKEN."


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103354
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible

nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) writes:


>HELP!!!
>my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
>We live in South Fla., so we are definitely in the right are for one.
>My wife has mentioned the Miata, but I think it is too small.
>I would like to wait for the new Mustangs ( Dec. '93 I think).
>Anyone have any opinions on any/all convertibles in a reasonable price range.

>                                           Thanx

	The Olds Supreme Convertible got high marks in C/D's recent test, if
you can get by the stupid body moldings and stuff.  The Saab 900 ragtop may
be out of your range, but its a good choice.  Is there a new F-car convertible?
The Nissan 240SX convertible is a nice car also... Those immediately come to 
mind...



-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103361
From: mboenig@dewey.NMSU.Edu (BOENIG)
Subject: v 16


	Probably the most famous V16 is the one Cadillac made from about 1925  
to 1935.  They had to scale down then because the Great Depression really put  
the crimp on luxury cars.  It had 452 cubic inches with over two hundred horse  
power.  "They don't make them like they used to."  
	There were others though.  Packard had one until about 1930 whe it down  
sized to their legendary Twin-Six, their mainstay for the next twenty years.   
Lincoln and Pierce Arrow might have also had one but I am not two sure.
	Most luxury and semi-luxury cars of this era at least experimented with  
V16 if they did not actually produce them.  There was actually a "cylinder war"  
among the Big Three to see who could produce the biggest engine.

Big M

++++++++++++++++++++
Standard disclaimer applies, because I can't think of anything wittier.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103362
From: kimgh@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Gene Kim)
Subject: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO

Review of 1989 Ford Taurus SHO -- By Gene Kim
=============================================

Background:

    Last week, I bought a 1989 Ford Taurus SHO, moving up from driving
a 1987 Toyota Celica ST and a 1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass.  I have been
interested in buying a SHO for about five months and have been combing
the classifieds in Denver and Chicago every week.  I bought a
remarkably clean maroon/red SHO with 92K miles on it for $6800.
As far as I can tell, this is about $2000 under Blue Book and I still
have another 8000 miles before the Extended Service Plan runs out.

    As one should with any pre-1991 SHOs, I made sure that the car was
already refit with the upgraded clutch and pressure plate, as well as
having been recalled for upgraded rotors and seatbelt attachments.
However, my SHO does not have the newer rod shifter -- I understand I
can get this for $230 from any Ford service center.  In addition, the
car received the full tune-up at 60K miles, receiving new platinum
plugs and valve adjustment.

    For a car with 92K miles on it, the car was virtually immaculate.
The clearcoat paint job was devoid of any large chips or dents,
although the front air-dam/molding was covered with lots of small
scratches -- not surprising since most of the miles were spent on the
highway.

    Having driven a smaller two-door coupe for so long, I was a bit
concerned about whether I could get used to driving a larger car.  To
my surprise, the size of the car doesn't bother me at all -- it seems
just as nimble as my Celica!  (No comparisons with my Oldsmobile.  :-)
Visibility from the driver's seat is excellent, helped mostly by of
the small the quarter-windows, aft of the back-seat door windows and
in front of the C-pillar and rear window.  Parallel parking is a bit
more difficult, but other than that, I love the size.

    In fact, I'm starting to appreciate the large trunk as I pack up
for a 14-hour drive to Washington, DC for the summer.  More on the
ride later in this review.


Engine:
    
    As with anyone even slightly interested in SHOs, I was very
interested in the 24-valve 3.0L Yamaha "Shogun" engine.  I was not
disappointed.  Base performance of the engine under 4000 rpms is
good.  You can even do reasonable launches from second gear, although
I don't make a practice of this.  The engine revs smoothly and eagerly
-- tooling around town does not require many shifts.  This is good
since the shifter is definitely one of the weakest points of the car.
(More on this later.)

    While the performance of the engine under 4000 rpms may be
unremarkable, it undergoes a Jekyll/Hyde transformation once you hit
higher revs.  At 4500 rpms, a butterfly valve opens and you can
literally hear and feel the geometry of the engine changing as twelve
more valves open up.  The engine soars to its 7000 rpm redline, and
you are treated to, in my opinion, the sweetest sounding V6 around.
The engine inexplicably sounds OVERJOYED to be at 6500 rpm!

    I've noticed that when I drive around town, I constantly watch the
tach to see how far below 4000 rpm I am.  To go from 2000 rpm to 4000,
you may have to punch the accelerator -- while torque is more than
adequate, it doesn't come fully online until those other 12 valves
are used.


Transmission:

    When _Car and Driver_ first reviewed the car in 1988, they
marvelled at how Ford had put such a wimpy clutch and balky shifter
into the car.  I remember driving a friend's parent's SHO in 1990, and
remember thinking about whether I had the leg strength to drive the
car in traffic -- the clutch was that stiff.  That was back then.

    The entire clutch assembly on my SHO has been replaced under a
Ford recall in 1991.  The clutch on the SHO feels no stiffer than the
one on my Toyota Celica.  In fact, the friction point seems a bit
larger and more forgiving.

    When playing with the shifter with the car parked, the shifter
felt very reasonable.  The 1-2 and 3-4 gates were where you'd expect
it to be, and the shifting action was smooth.  On the road, it's
much the same -- but you have to shift SLOWLY!  Make no mistake, it's
a clumsy shifter.

    When hurrying shifts, like when I was initially trying to impress
friends, I consistently miss the 1-2 shift, often grope clumsily for
the 2-3 shift, and sometimes even muff the 3-4 shift.  I find this
pretty amazing in a car like this.

    It also took me several days to realize that you get the smoothest
shifts when you take your time.  Seems obvious, but compared to my
Toyota and my friend's Honda, this seems atrocious and clumsy.
Someone on rec.autos noted that CRXs should blow SHOs off-the-line
because of the incredibly clumsy shifter.

    I now shift much more sedately, and the shifter seems more
reasonable.  When you play within these bounds, the shifter works
smoothly with no surprises.  I don't know whether the rod shifter
upgrade would help at all.

    Along these same lines, I initially had trouble shifting gears
smoothly.  Again, slowing down the shifts and taking more care to
match revs when letting out the clutch helped immensely.  This took
several days for me to get the hang of.  (I think some of my problems
were because I've never had a car with enough power to balk at bad
shifts in higher gears.)

    Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse.  The shifter
refuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to 
get it into gear.  I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple
of months.

    A quirk:  When I upshift and the engine drops back to 1000-2500
rpm, I hear a whirring and then a grinding noise coming from the the
engine compartment.  Not terribly loud, but the passenger can
definitely hear it.  I asked about it when I was looking at the car,
as do all my passengers.  Apparently, this is a definitely a "SHO
sound" and is the gearbox -- apparently called "gear rollover".
Replies to my queries on rec.autos are at the end of this review.


Exterior:

    As I mentioned before, I am astounded by how well the body of this
SHO has stood up.  Paint chipping on the front bumper and grille are
virtually non-existent.  Looking at how older Tauri sometimes
don't age so gracefully, I wonder what the guys at Ford did
differently to the SHO bodies.

    The body, in my opinion, is extremely attractive with matching
color body moldings than the stock Tauri.  For some odd reason, the
SHO seems different enough from vanilla Tauri to get stares at
stoplights -- of course, this could be my overactive imagination.
:-)  SHOs get fog lights, a more open grille, a completely
monochromatic exterior, and a deeper ground skirt in the back with
"SHO" stenciled in relief.  I've seen a couple SHOs whose owners have
colored these in with florescent colors or in black.  Yuck.

    I don't think the car is flashy.  I like it that way.  I feel
almost anonymous with all those Tauri out there, but different and
distinctive enough to those of us who care.  :-)


Interior:

    The interior is what really makes me feel like I don't deserve the
car.  The seats are grey leather, the steering wheel and shifter are
covered with black leather, and the entire instrument panel is done in
a black/grey/metallic scheme.  

    The instrumentation is stock Taurus, except for the 140 mph speedo
and 8000 rpm tach.  You get a center console with two cupholders, a
large compartment under the radio (great for a CD player), an armrest
that contains yet another compartment, three appropriately sized coin
holders for tollways (I think), and a compartment for holding
cassette tapes.  There's map-holders in the doors, and an oddly small
glove compartment.

    I spilled a whole can of Coke in the cupholder and was delighted
to find that the entire rubber holder can be removed and washed in a
sink.  Hey, I'm really impressed with the ergonomics and
thoughtfulness that went into its design.  And it's a 1989, before the
interior was upgraded!

    The backseat is bigger than any car I've had.  Why do they need so
much space?  :-)  (No smart-ass comments, please.  :-)

    The driver and passenger seat have lumbar and side bolsters.  From
what I hear, it's not uncommon for the side bolsters to show wear.
Mine is no exception.  The left side bolster on the driver's has
cracked and I'm not convinced the right bolster is inflating all the
way.

    A big surprise for me:  I forgot that SHOs don't have a normal
hand parking brake.  Instead, they have the regular parking brake that
you press with your left foot.  Too bad.  Again, I'm getting used to
it, but it seems a bit anachronistic to me.


Ride:

    The suspension is nice and stiff.  Too stiff?  It's stiffer than
any car I've had.  A friend's new 1993 Toyota Celica ST seems tauter
and is still able to soak up bumps better.  The SHO seems stiffer with
less ability to soak up bumps.  Driving over railroad tracks is a
noisy and jarring affair.  On the other hand, taking turns feels
wonderful because the body is so rigid and doesn't flex at all -- I
listened for that before I bought the car.

    On the highway, the ride is great.  When I drove the car from
Chicago back to Purdue, I had trouble keeping under 85 mph, let alone
from trying to see what 100 mph really feels like.  It's a relatively
quiet ride, but the sunroof rattles.  I've tried to find out what
exactly makes all the noise up there, but it seems to be the window
that rests on the rails.  No easy way to get rid of it, I think.

    Over the past three days, I've oscillated between thinking the
suspension is wonderful and perfect and thinking that the ride is way
too rough.  (Not for me, mind you.  But I wonder whether I would
advise my dad to buy one for himself.)  But, I've discovered, as with
the shifter, if you take your time with shifts, you'll have no reason
to complain.  Let me explain...

    The ride is worst when turning and applying lots of power to the
wheels.  I feel the wheels scrabbling for traction and torque steer
making the car skitter left and right.  After I understood this, I
avoid the limits of traction -- and I'm a happy camper again.

    It's not body rigidity, but the composure of the car.

    As if matching the suspension, the steering feel is quite heavy.
My first impression of driving my SHO was how hard you had to turn the
wheel at highway speeds.  It tracks straight as an arrow, but when
driving around a parking lot, the high-effort steering didn't seem so
useful.  However, it's reasonable, but it doesn't communicate the road
to the driver as well as a 1993 Ford Probe GT.  IMHO, it's much better
than the steering on my Celica ST.

    I wonder how bad this car is during winter?


Miscellaneous notes:

    GRIPES:

    The rattles from the sunroof is intermittent -- some days it rattles
        loudly, other days I look up wondering where all the noise went.

    Activating the sunroof is sometimes very noisy -- loud squealing as
	it retracts on its rails.  I wonder if there is a quick fix for this.
	Again, other days it completely disappears.  (Function of humidity?)

    Once I made the connection between the sometimes awful feeling suspension
	and torque steer, I've never complained about ride.

    I wish the seats had more support under the thighs.  Also, I wish the
	side bolsters would close more tightly.  

    I hear that tires for this car can get really expensive.  I
	currently have Goodyear GT+4s that cost the previous owner $500
	for four.

    I used to hate the Ford stereo systems -- whose idea was it
	to use a volume *paddle*?  Now, to my amazement, I don't
	really mind...  and sometimes think it's an okay idea!!!
	Pretty ridiculous, though.

    Getting up to 4000 rpm sometimes seems to be a chore.  But,
	this is no big deal.  There is more than enough torque
	down low.

    I often goof up the shifting when driving with friends.  It
	took me a couple of days before I could really shift
	smoothly from 2nd to 3rd gear.  (Hard to believe, isn't it?)

    My car has almost 93,000 miles on it.  My parents noted that
	it is almost impossible to find a low-mileage SHO. 
	Astute observation, IMHO.  I wonder how long I can make
	my SHO last -- I just bought a book titled "Drive It Forever"
	for tips in this department.  :-)

    The goofy parking brake pedal still throws me for a loop.  I once
	parked the car in gear, and then accidentally let out the clutch
	after I started it.  The car jolted forward, and bounced off
	the car in front of me -- no paint damage at all, but starting the car 
	is a whole new ritual for me with that fangled pedal!  Also, I began 
	to wonder how strong that brake really is.  (Today, I backed out of 
	parking spot today and started to drive away before I noticed 
	the glowing brake light.  Oops.)

    The driver's power window creaks when closed all the way.  The same
    	thing happens in my parents 1989 Mercury Sable.  Oddly, all the
	other windows work smoothly.


    LIKES:

    I'm liking the interior amenities more and more each day.  The
    	cupholders are great.

    I didn't expect to use the keyless entry buttons so much, but
	it really is handy.  You can lock all the doors by
	pressing the 7/8 and 9/10 buttons together!  Neat!  And
	you can never lock yourself out of the car.

    I really feel like I don't deserve this car.  I really can't
	believe that I could afford it.  I got this car ten years 
	ahead of schedule.  :-)

    I love this car so much that I've been telling my parents to
	look into buying one.  I love this car so much that I
	wrote this 13K file -- I meant to write a couple of lines
	and ended up with this.  

    If there were a J.D. Powers Survey for used car owners, I would have
	an opportunity to express my incredible satisfaction of owning this 
	car.  I don't like thinking about getting another car, but at this
	point in time, I'm sure I'd buy another SHO.  For under $7000, you
	can't beat it.  (Next time with an airbag and ABS, though.)

    Insurance-wise, this car is also a big win.  I pay the same premiums
	as on my 1987 Toyota Celica -- despite that it has nearly twice
	the horsepower.  



Other Odds and Ends:

    Much to my amazement, there is no SHO mailing list anywhere.
Maybe because the _SHO Registry_ publication has filled this void.  I
haven't joined yet, but I've noticed that queries about SHOs still
appear on rec.autos about once a month.  Owners of SHOs are always
quick to respond, and are very vocal fans of the cars.  (Maybe some
of the most vocal on rec.autos.  :-)

    I've put together the responses to my questions about the cars, as
well as other posts with useful information on these cars.  I'll be 
posting this in the form of a FAQ soon.  

    If anyone is interested in starting a mailing list, please speak up!
I don't know if I have the resources here at Purdue to start one, but 
maybe someone out there does.


Gene Kim
(genek@mentor.cc.purdue.edu)



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103366
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted

The best auto-shifters on the street (AND NOT THE TRACK) are those from 
Porsche... they wont change if you floor the gas during a turn.... a few 
years back a was in a 200SX auto (you guys call it a 240SX [without turbo])
and was going round a corner.... I floored it and next thing I know I was 
pointing backwards! The other drivers seemed quite amused ;-)

						....Shaz....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103367
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions

I just wanted to know:

To wheelspin in an auto, you keep the gear in N - gas it - then stick the 
gear in D... I've never tried this but am sure it works - but does this screw 
up the autobox? We're having a bit of a debate about it here...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103368
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

Dumbest options? Well here in the UK, BMW offer a 'no-smokers' option...
It just means they take the fag lighter out.... big deal....

BTW - I just bought a Honda CRX F1..... its neat... did consider an MR2 targa,
MX5 (you guys call it Miata?).... but that CRX just one my heart with that 
body kit and 8-spokes.... 

ps: is Richard out there somewhere?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103369
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr22.180150.12377@telxon.mis.telxon.com> joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt) writes:
>>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>
>Honda: Prelude (?)
nope.  4 cylinder.

>>V8 - Don't know of any.
>
>You didn't try very hard:
>Lexus, Infinty: several of each
i wasn't aware that there was another Infiniti with a V-8 besides the Q45.

>BMW: one model (5-series?)
several.  the 740i, 730i, 540i, 530i.  (4.0 liter and 3.0 liter V-8)

>Mercedes: one or two models
one or two?  there's at least one V-8 for every platform except
the compact (190E).  S-class (400SEL, 500SEL), W124 (400E, 500E),
and roadster (500SL).

>Acura: one model (can't remember the name right now)
acura doesn't have any V-8 cars at the moment.

>>V12 - Jaguar XJS
>BMW: 750il, 850
>Mercedes: XXXSL
600SL and 600SEL.  the other SLs (500 SL and 300SL) are V-8 and inline six.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103370
From: tonyz@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Tony Zugates)
Subject: Last of the V-8 Interceptors

Does anyone know what kind of car Mad Max used in "Road Warrior"?

They called it "the last of the V-8 Interceptors..."

I couldnt tell what it was, it was so chopped up.

thanks



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103371
From: chung@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Po Sum Chung ACF)
Subject: Re: water in trunk of 89 Probe??

In article <1r1r4bINNfja@tamsun.tamu.edu> jlong@emcnext2.tamu.edu (James Long) writes:
>In article <1r1crn$27g@transfer.stratus.com> tszeto@sneezy.ts.stratus.com  
>(Tommy Szeto) writes:
>> Water gradually builds up in the trunk of my friend's 89 Ford Probe.  Every
>> once in a while we would have to remove the spare and scoop out the water
>> under the plywood/carpet cover on the trunk.  I would guess this usually  
>happens
>> after a good thunder storm.  A few Qs:
>> 
>> 1) Is this a common problem?
>> 2) Where are the drain holes located for the hatch?
>
>I noticed this is my '89 probe also, when recently cleaning out the back.  I  
>think the water is coming *up* through some rubber stoppered holes beneath the  
>spare.  Mine looked slightly worn, and there was no water or water damage above  
>the level of the spare area. 

I have the same problem with my '90 probe.  The water is definitely not comming
up from the rubber stoppered hole beneath the spare.  I have to remove the
rubber stopper to drain the water.  Seems like a common problem with probe.



Po Sum Chung                        email: chung@ames.arc.nasa.gov


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103372
From: crpresto@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Charlie Preston)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important?

In article <1993Apr20.163527.12773@bnr.ca> tcorkum@bnr.ca (Trevor Corkum) writes:
>   I was recently thumbing through the 1993 Lemon-Aid New
>Car Guide.  What I found was a car would be given a 'Recommended'
>under the picture while a few sentences later noting how a
>driver and passenger were virtually guaranteed to be killed
>in a front end collision.  The most highly recommended small
>car (The Civic) has the worst crash rating of all of the small
>cars listed.  There were many such cases of 'great' vehicles
>where you wouldn't survive an accident.  Is it only me, or is
>safety not one of the most important factors when buying a car?
>                                                                   IMHO the
best way to reduce risk when operating a vehicle is being able to avoid
hazards and, for that reason my preferred vehicle is a motorcycle.  When I do
use a four wheeler my primary reasons are: it will keep me dry, it will keep
me warm, or it will carry more cargo.  If the four wheeler has as much
collision protection as the average motorcycle, then it has enough form me.

How do you define safe?  One definition of safe is without risk.  Is


-- 
Chas                         DoD #7769

"Oh, how can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?"
                                               - Firesign Theatre

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103373
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: RE: THE 1994 MUSTANG

-> The current 4.9l V-8 will soldier on for about two years.  A version
-> of the 32 valve modular V-8 in the Mark VIII could be offered then.

How unfortunate for anyone who loves the simplicity with which 302 and
351 Fords and 305 and 350 Chevys can be built up. Still, it will provide
a needed punch for the Ford to stay up with the new Firebird/Camaros. It
wouldn't surprise me if Ford called the engine a 5.0 litre in the
Mustang. (We all know that the current 5.0 is really 4.9 litres anyway)

-> Undisguised, the car looks OK, but not nearly as exciting as the new
-> Camaro/Firebird, IMO.

I must agree. I don't think I've seen anything as impressive looking as
the new Firebird since my friend back home sold his 1970 Formula 400
Firebird (for a paltry $2000, without even telling me. The bastard.)

George Howell
george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org
                                   

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103374
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: BRONCOS

Does anybody have any information on the second generation Broncos? (I'm
not talking about Bronco II's, I'm referring to the Broncos that began
production in 1978 based on the F-150 chassis I believe)

I need to know what to look for, can the tops be removed from all
models, how easily can that be done. Also, what kind of price range
should I be looking at? (i.e. what is blue book) I'm in college right
now, and would like a Jeep. Unfortunately, I've got a bit of a ride to
school, and I need to carry a lot of junk to and from the dormitory in
the spring/fall. I think that the Bronco (with the removable fiberglass)
would be a better (read "bigger") choice than a CJ-5 or CJ-7.

Even better: anybody in the Maryland/Virginia area interested in selling
one?

George Howell
george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org
                                                                                 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103375
From: cmermag@eng.umd.edu (Christopher Mermagen)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

Yeah, it seems toyota has always had a problem with those 2.2's
and sound. I know the celicas with em were pretty noisey, and
the MR2s were no exception. Now, about large displacement 4s
with bad noise.. I have a 90 Grand Am H.O. quad 4, and it
sounds really good, almost like a larger 6.. Now, Toyota
is coming out with an all-new Celica next year and the Mr2...
well who knows..

Later-
Chris


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103376
From: uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu (Andrew Krenz)
Subject: Re: Impala SS going into production!

In <1993Apr19.193417.18601@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> dunnjj@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (DUNN  JONATHAN JAMES) writes:

>uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu (Andrew Krenz) writes:

>>I personally like the looks of the Impala SS.  The Caprice was definately 
>>weird looking until this year when they made the rear wheel openings look 
>>more like a normal car, but the Impala impresses me.  GM can't exactly shove
>>the LT1 in everything they make, you know, only the bigger stuff.  I'd like
>>to see it next in a 1500 series pickup.  That would be a hot setup.
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>What about in a full size Blazer as well?  Would this engine have the gobs
>of torque necessary for off-roading?  If so, this would be even better than
>the Syclone.

Well, an LT1 Blazer wouldn't come close to a GMC Typhoon in speed, I think its
too heavy.  As it is right now, the normal 210HP 5.7 engine has plenty of 
power for a full size Blazer.  Of course, I'm not saying GM shouldn't put the
LT1 in it :).  It seems like they have a real winner with that engine.  Why
spend so much more money into getting a 32 valve DOHC V8 when you can take 
an LT1?  It even seems to get pretty good gas MPG (for a 5.7, that is.)


[talking about Impala SS]
>Will this be in the 4-door Caprice body?  I'm just curious if Chevy is
>trying to resurrect their 2-door muscle cars, or to compete with the European
>"super sedans."

Yeah, it's a flat black, lowered 4 door Caprice riding on 17" aluminum rims and
Eagle GS-C tires.  The rest of the car is basically a Caprice LTZ (read: 
plush police package) with 300 horsepower.

I heard that Chevy is resurrecting the Monte Carlo but that's going to get 
their 3.4 DOHC V6 and not the LT1.

>>Jon Dunn<
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Krenz -- uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu | krenz@engrhub.ucsb.edu 
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103377
From: briang@bari.Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Gordon)
Subject: Re: legal car buying problems

In article <C5syDn.C2v@megatest.com> jao@megatest.com (John Oswalt) writes:
>	[...]
>However, if you agree some terms, and then, when about to sign, the
>dealer slips you a contract with different terms, and leads you to
>believe that it embodies the terms you verbally agreed to, that
>is fraud.  There is no 3 day limit on restitution for fraud.
>
>You may have to sue (and win) to get out of this.  You will almost
>certainly have to threaten to sue.
>-- 

On the other hand, remember the old adage that a verbal agreement isn't worth
the paper it's printed on.  Once you sign, you are going to have one hell of a
time proving fraud based on a comparison to what you thought you were going to
sign ...

Being in the right is one thing, proving it is another.
-- 
:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
| Brian G. Gordon	briang@Sun.COM    		briang@netcom.COM     |
| B.GORDON2 on GENie	70243,3012 on CompuServe	BGordon on AOL	      |
:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103378
From: rhorwell@crab.network-a (Roland Faragher-Horwell,crab)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all tim

In article 1EL@targhee.idaho.amdahl.com, rbs@sawtooth.idaho.amdahl.com (Bob Smith) writes:
>In article <1993Apr7.173712.23250@cas.org>, sdm24@cas.org () writes:
>> IMHO, the dumbest thing we *ever* did in copying the Japanese was moving the
>> dimmer switch from the floor to the lever controlling the turn signal/cruise
>> control/bun warmer, etc.
>
>Well, my 1973 Porsche had the dimmer on the turn signal stalk.  Guess those
>dumb Germans were copying the Japanese too. :-)
>
>[rest deleted]
>> -- 
 
Not to mention my friend's '54 Citroen Traction Avant with the light switch and 
dimmer integrated in a single stalk off the steering column!   Those dumb French
were apparently copying the Japanese before the Germans!  :^)

Roland



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103379
From: rhorwell@crab.atc.boeing.com (Roland Faragher-Horwell,crab)
Subject: Re: What is " Volvo " ?

In article 21071@sernews.raleigh.ibm.com, mperry@vnet.ibm.com (Mark Perry) writes:
>>Hardly a good reason, most US cars do too - and plenty of people
>>buy them (in the US anyway :-). I think the 850 is quite a good
>>looking car - unlike the US influenced 740!
>>
>>kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
>
>I don't think it's so easy to tell the 850 from any other 7 or 9 series unless
>you look real close. I really do think Volvo's are all dogs though beacuse they
>are 1.Agricultural 

While previous Volvos have been essentially very fast tractors, the 3,4 and 8 series
are far from 'agricultural' in design or execution (how many FWD tractors have you 
seen?).

>2.Have godlier than thou advertising. 

You state this like it is a bad thing.  :^)  (remember, car companies use
ad agencies - they don't do their own ads!)

>3.are part of Renault.

Is this true?  I know that they had done joint ventures with Renault, but I haven't
heard about their subsumption into Renault - does this mean that the French Government
now owns Volvo?  - anyway, Renault makes some very nice cars, they just don't sell
'em in N. America!

>
>However... One thing that I do think is in their favour is that they are
>immediately recognisable as a VOLVO and that is not something you can say
>about most Japanese manufacturers and Ford. Saab also have a strong corparate
>look which like it or not is what I thing all car makers could aim for to
>make life a little more varied.

Here! Here!

>
>
>mperry@vnet.ibm.com

Roland
rhorwell@atc.boeing.com





Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103380
From: pv9955@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: VW Jetta GLI help

I am considering the purchse of a 1987 VW Jetta GLI with 87k miles on it.
I recently found out that there are two versions of the GLI -- 8v and 16v.
I know of three differences between the two cars that both carry the same
name:  the 16v version has 20 more horsepower, 4 wheel discs, and a standard
sunroof. 
Oops, that's the difference between the GLI 16v and the regular GL !!
So in addition to the engine, what other differences exist between the
two models of the Jetta GLI ?
More importantly, how can I tell which version this one is ?  There are
no badges that said "16v" so I am inclined to think that is the 8v version.
Assuming this one (the one I looked at) is the 8v version, is there a valid
reason to buy it instead of a comparably equipped GL which would cost less ?
(Of course I would love to get the 16v version, but money talks.)

Please EMail any responses.  Thank you.
Peter Volpe
PV9955@albnyvms.bitnet

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103381
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <C5LIw2.CAx@news.rich.bnr.ca> Peon w/o Email (Eric Youngblood) writes:
>In article <1qn2lo$c9s@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) writes:
>The big disadvantage of automatics is the ~10% HP they consume that never
>gets to the wheels.  In this respect they are at a disadvantage to a manual.

only when the torque converter is not locked up.  there are autos out there
with converter lock up in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears.

>Dont forget that now that new 6 speed manual trannys are available the drive
>train is more optimally geared to get the most out of the engine.

rare.. so are 5 speed autos.. but very real.

>Bottom line is both manuals and automatics have vastly improved.

i think that automatics have advanced far more than manuals.
especially in shift intelligence.  i say that a smart automatic is
better than the majority of drivers in terms of being in the right
gear at the right time, which to me is more important than torque
converter losses.

>I prefer the stick for fun and the auto for traffic.

who says you can't have your cake and eat it too?  a well designed
shifter will easily facilitate manual, clutchless shifts.  i am
referring to the much copied mercedes jagged gate.  the only
department where you lose out is in the number of ratios available,
and of course the converter losses..

if ayrton senna can drive a racecar with fully automatic transmission,
it can't be half bad..  :-)


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103382
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
: >> 
: >I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if 
: >you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your
: >alarm?  I can think of worse things in the world.  Glad you got out of there
: >before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.
: 
I think people have a right to kill to defend their property. Why not? Be
honest: do you really care more about scum than about your  car?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103383
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: SHO and SC

In article <C5L8rE.28@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>Why anyone would order an SHO with an automatic transmission is
>beyond me; if you can't handle a stick, you should stick with a
>regular Taurus and leave the SHO to real drivers. That is not to
>say that there aren't real drivers who can't use the stick (eg
>disabled persons), but they aren't in any position to use an
>SHO anyway. 

actually, disabled persons have been known to drive in SCCA
races.  i'd be careful about making sweeping generalizations here.

i'd prefer a manual transmission, but the early SHO had an
awful transmission that felt like it came out of a truck or something.
it was almost enough to make me want an automatic.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103384
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Too fast

In article <1qmcih$dhs@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
>>The quality of autobahns is something of a myth. The road surface
>>isn't much different to a typical TX freeway. They are better
>>in terms of lighting, safety, signs, roadmarkings etc.
>
>They light the highways in Texas?  Funny, everywhere else I've been
>they only light 'em at junctions.

Sorry, by "they" I meant autobahns, not US freeways.

>
>I won't even get into how much road markings vary between states and
>localities except to say that there are some areas where markings are
>essentially nonexistant.
>
>>>than most of the roads here. A dip in the asphalt that you test your
>>>shocks on at 60 will kill you at 130. Don't get me wrong, I love to
>
>>It would have to be quite severe. I don't recall any US freeway,
>>without road damage warnings, that i would regard as unsafe
>>at 130 in any decent, well damped car.
>
>I suspect you have very limited experience -- US freeways vary
>dramatically, particularly between states.  I can name a number of
>interstate highways in various parts of the country where 130 would be
>very optimistic in any car.

Well, I've driven in every state but Alaska, and drive about 60k per year.
I take long cross country trips any chance I get - its fun for me and I
can get reimbursment.
My job allows me to drive rather than fly. Not to labor the point, but
I've driven just about every freewayin the US, Germany, UK and France plus
some in Mexico, which was surpisingly good.

>
>I'm not sure what you call "quite severe" in terms of road deviations
>but I suspect every single bridge junction on I84 through CT would be
>considered so.  They're hard to take at 85mph.  That's not the only
>interstate I've seen with such deviations, but it's one I drive
>frequently.

Yes, but as a %age of the total freeway in the US? 
All you have to do in this case is mark the hazard, advising people to
slow to 85 or so. 

>
>Texas is pretty much an edge-case -- you can't assume that everywhere
>has roads in such good condition, such flat terrain, and such

Texas freeways are varied, sometimes a good surface. Mostly flat. But,
I5 in CA is comparable and hilly.

>wide-open spaces.  It just ain't so.
>
Given the absence of other traffic and car built for 130 (e.g. 535) 
most US freeways are just fine. The problem is other road users and
cops.

>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.com

Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103385
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

In article <oprsfnx.735015349@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> oprsfnx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Stephen F. Nicholas) writes:
[stuff about Dodge Shadow deleted]

> As an ex-Fleet Mgr. of 3000 cars, they were amoung the most trouble free of
>all models.  I bought one for my wife.

What do you mean by "all models", all models of cars, all Chrysler models,
all models that the fleet manager had bought? Because there is no way in
hell that the Shadow is the most reliable car of all models sold, not
even Chrysler's dept. of lies, damned lies and statistics would claim that.

Craig
>

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103386
From: bz754@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Derek J. Wojciech)
Subject: Question to Nissan 300ZX owners/gurus (esp 87-89 models)


I purchased a used 1988 Nissan 300ZX (non-turbo) last year.  I had a 
question on gear/rpm ratios.  Right now in 5th @65mph I'm at 
2600-2700 rpms.  @70mph I'm at about 2900rpms.  Is this about the
norm?  I'm an auto neophyte so I'm just wondering if these are
the proper ranges?  Somehow the rpm figures seem high.  A friend of mine
just told me he can hit 60mph in 3rd on his 88 Chevy Beretta (2.8l V6.)
Also, anyone know the top speed attainable (@redline???) for this model Z?
(Not that I would try it but it would be an interesting factoid. :)
 
				Thanx!
					Derek


-- 
'Fire and Love, the two extremes |  wojciech@ossek.nrl.navy.mil /    ***.
that we live between, Fire and   |-----------------------------/    **   '
Love, there's more to life than  | Surfing or Snowboarding         ****
the eye can see.'  Guardian      |      ridin' the Wave........._-*********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103387
From: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu (Terry Quinn)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang



> They beat Ford to the market with the Camaro/Firebird, but really only
> in words.  Production of these vehicles will be limited until the
> end of the year, keeping selling prices above MSRP for the most part
> since there are so many twitching Camaro fans out there.
 
Drivel.  I received delivery of my '93 Trans Am 7 weeks after I 
ordered (promised 6-8 weeks), and paid $400 over dealer invoice, 
which is a $1425 discount off of MSRP.  I only have about 370 
miles on it, but so far no problems, and it seems very well put 
together.  By the way, first year production will be about 60,000 
cars.  Dealers would like you to think there is a shortage, but 
considering they only sold about 90,000 F bodies last year and the 
new model was introduced mid-year, that is not going to create a 
shortage.  GM planning on ramping to about 160,000 F bodies next 
year (according to a WSJ article).
 
Several people have mentioned seeing a photo of the '94 Mustang in 
Popular Mechanics.  I saw a photo of it in Motor Trend January 
1993 issue (p30).  Direct side on view.  Although they described 
it as a "seriously handsome car with broad shoulders," I thought 
it looked pretty boring in that view.  Roofline reminded me of a 
Toyota Celica (yuch!).  Description of mechanicals same as has 
been reported from the PM article. 
 

--
                                    Terry Quinn
                                     Germantown Hills, IL
                                      tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu
from Compuserve . . .                  >INTERNET: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103403
From: ae045@Freenet.carleton.ca (Mike Harker)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?


You guys are correct.  The Bricklin was produced in Canada.
The National Museum of Science and Technology here in Ottawa
has one, and sometimes they put it on display.  Most of the time,
it stays in storage because the museum doesn't have much room.
It's a big deal for a car to be Canadian and that's why they 
have it.  If anybody's a fan, they also have a nice green '73
Riviera that looks like it just came out of the showroom.
-- 
MIKE HARKER
OTTAWA, ONTARIO, CANADA
VOICE: 613-823-6757

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103404
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:

>In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu> davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
>>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.

>I've read in this group that Geico has funded the purchasing of radar
>guns by police depts (I'm not sure where).

	Maryland and other states.

	To the original poster:

	Read the last 3-4 issues of Car And Driver about this.  It's 
interesting and should be illegal...  


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103405
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Geico

goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg) writes:

>In rec.autos, jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister) writes:
>>My suggestion, stay where you are, or shop around but STAY AWAY from Geico!

>I strongly agree with Jeff.  Here's my horror story.  Many years back,
>I switched to Geico from State Farm to save some $$$$.  I have a relatively
>new sports car, for which we covered with liability, collision, and
>comprehensive.  With this make of car, new models came out in January,
>not September like other makes.  The car was purchased in August of
>that year.

>We also had a much older clunker for which we only wanted liability.  
>Low and behold, a vandal slashed the roof of the sports car and we put 
>in a claim.  This was in October - still the current model year for
>the car.   A new top, with installation was $135.  We had $50 deductible
>so we should have gotten $85.  You had to go to Geico's local office
>to have an adjuster see the car, unlike State Farm that sent the adjusters
>to the shop or your place.  He said, "Since the car is now one year
>old, we'll depreciate the top by $50, so you'll get $35 on the claim.
>This will also count as an accident against you, so your rate may increase."

>The hassle continued.  Then we got a letter from Geico, saying "Claim
>denied - your policy on this car doesn't cover this."  I then learned
>that their records had the full coverage (collision, etc.) on our old
>clunker, and only had liability for this new car!!!!  They mixed up
>our cars in their records.  I fixed the top myself with some carpet
>thread and dropped my claim.  They still charged me with an "accident!"
>I cancelled my policy and switched to another company.

>The coup de gras came when they sent me a bill for an additional balance
>due for the difference in collision/comprehensive cost between my sports
>car and my clunker!!!  I returned the bill unpaid with a nastygram,
>plus explicity directions to perform recto-cranial insertion!!!!
>Haven't heard from them since.

>   /|/| /||)|/  /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~   |   Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
>  / | |/ ||\|\  \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_|  |      goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil
>========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======


	Good for you.  I am convinced that someone should start a boycott 
against GEICO.  Any takers?




-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103406
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles

In article <Apr16.215151.28035@engr.washington.edu> eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>the price of parts is a different story though...

you can say that again.
how does $23 for a new thermostat sound?

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103407
From: schrader@pi.eai.iastate.edu (Dave Schrader)
Subject: 400 big block

As the subject says.  It has 70k and my brother-in-law wants $250.  Please don't
reply to me as I am posting this for him. Here's his numbers :
              5pm-10pm   712 676 3669
              daytime    712 269 1261  


-- 
                          Dave Schrader
                          schrader@eai.iastate.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103408
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Subject: Looking for low lease rate on Toyota Previa

What's the best lease quote that anyone has seen on a Toyota Previa DX or DX
All-trac for a two-year lease?  If you know where I can get a better
rate than $330/month, please contact me with the name and phone of
the dealership.

-- 
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103409
From: butt@CAMIS.Stanford.EDU (Ayub Butt)
Subject: Toyota Coralla 1988 FX

For sale, 1988 Toyota Corolla FX, AM/FM radio, nothing else.
Low mileage - 28,000.  (I ride my bike to work.)

Dark Blue. Good condition. ONLY $3800.  

I am leaving the country for a year and must sell this
great city car.

CALL RENEE FECTEAU - (408) 924-5171 leave message.

Do not email to this account.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103410
From: gaia@carson.u.washington.edu (I/We are Gaia)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

In article <oprsfnx.735015349@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> oprsfnx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Stephen F. Nicholas) writes:
>daubendr@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Darren R Daubenspeck) writes:
>
>
>>> they are pretty much junk, stay away from them.  they will be replaced next
>>> year with all new models.  
>
>
>>Junk?  They've made the C&D lists for years due to their excellent handling and  
>>acceleration.  They have been around since about, oh, 85 or 86, so they're not  
>>the newest on the lot, and mileage is about five to eight MPG under the class  
>>leader.  You can get into a 3.0 L v-6 (141 hp) Shadow for $10~11K (the I-4  
>>turbo a bit more), and a droptop for $14~15K.  
>
>
> As an ex-Fleet Mgr. of 3000 cars, they were amoung the most trouble free of
>all models.  I bought one for my wife.
>


*nnnnnnnng* Thank you for playing, I cannot agree with this.  I believed
this and to put it nicely, it was a piece of junk!

I loved this car, I babied it, I pampered it, and after 2 years, it just
couldn't stay together, I would say that not everyone will have the
problems that I had, but know this, it's not just the car, it is the
ability to get the car fixed, which will NOT happen at any
chrysler/dodge/take your pick dealer.  I don't care if there are going to
reform their dealers/service with the intro of the LH cars, I will believe
it when I see it.  Case and point, the local dodge dealer.  You drive up,
just looking, you don't even get out of your door, when about 10 (yes 10)
salesman all eye you like their next meal, and literally pounce on you,
and try to get you to make a deal, on everything your eye wanders towards.
Service is about 2 times worse than that.  I had an alignment problem, but
they tried to tell me that the K frame was bent, and about 2000 dollars of
work/parts to fix it.  Let me tell you the problems I had, and I took care
of this car, I put alot of miles on it in the first couple years, but took
it to every checkup it needed, and many that shouldn't have been.

1988 Dodge Shadow ES

These were replaced within the 4 years that I owned the car.

Engine 
4 Alternators
Rear Suspension Torsion Bar
2 Water pumps
5 thermostats
Hall effect sensor
Main computer
4 Batteries

These were rebuilt/repaired

Radiator
Automatic Transmission
Power Steering


Those are just the things I can remember off the top of my head.  For
about a year before I sold the car, I said to myself, it's a good car, I
just can't find anybody competent enough the fix it.  In the end, before I
traded it in for a Saturn, the power steering started acting up again.  I
just stopped putting money into it.  I must have put at least $5000-$7000
worth of repairs over it's lifetime.  I am sorry but Lee Iacocca can bite
me.  Bullshit, whoever backs em best, is just afraid the stupid things are
going to fall apart, and no one will buy them without assurance, why the
hell do you think that LH has been nicknamed Last Hope.

You can do better, and I know people will disagree with me here, but
Japanese, like Honda, or Toyota, or the only american car company that I
feel is a quality product, Saturn.  I will not touch another chrysler
product again, no way.  I don't care how good the LH cars look good, and I
will admit they look promising, but not with the support that you get.  GM
isn't much better, thank god, they don't control Saturn, like they do
their divisions, or it would be just another marketing ploy.  

Don't get me wrong, i will be watching my car (which I do like) like a
hawk for the next 4 years.  I am much more hesitant to say it (or any) car
is really good, until it has proved itself to me.

But since someone else pointed out C&D as a source.  I will note, because
I used to read these magazines, that Car and Driver has never had a good
thing to say about most Chrysler products (Shadow for one), always were
they moaning about the reguritated K-car, and engine.  Whereas Motor Trend
always thought they were great cars.  No car magazine is really objective.

And although there are alot of people who don't like Consumers Reports, I
will use them to reinforce my argument (I already know about the big stink
with the Saturn crash tests, time will tell how good a car they are), the
shadow/sundance rate much worse than average, in fact none of the
chrysler's rate a better than average, I think the best one is just
average.  Excluding the diamond star/mitsubishi stuff and the LH's.  You
can find bad stuff about the Shadow.  Try as I might, when I researched
the Saturn, I could not find anything bad about it.  There is a great deal
of information about this company, just because it is a new american
company and it has created quite a stir in the automotive community, for
good reason.  Much more than the introduction of any new model lines of
any established company.  I read an article, which had a sub-column, an I
think this imprinted on me more than anything else.  Some big wig in
Toyota said and I quote, "We are watching them very closely."  Come on,
everybody grow up, the foreign cars, especially the japanese have been
kicking our butts, for good reason, the american car companies could not make
a good product or support the customer the way they want these days, to
set in their ways, which is one of the reasons Saturn was created.  They
are still struggling because they haven't learned yet.  They have the
ability, the workers are not inferior, the technology is not out of date,
but their attitude is, and they are just finding this out.  It's called
competition gentleman/women if you don't satisfy the demand of the
consumer, well your out..  

*asbestos suit on*

Gaia


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103411
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: BMW 528i

I looked at that Bimmer yesterday. It's an '81, has about 90kmi, according
to owner (odometer stopped working at 68Kmi). Drivess well, sounds good,
body is OK, he wants $3000.
i liked the car, despite it's auto tranny, but my wife will be a primary
driver on this one, and she wants auto.
The radio does not work untill the car warms up and you honk the horn (!)
The A/C seems to have a leak. 
The sunroof is sticky, but operational.
Odometer does not work, as mentioned before.
Idle is a bit bouncy, going from 900rpm to 1200rpm.
Wipers are slow.
That's teh gripes. The owner says that he changed radiator, alternator, 
rotors and calipers, exhaust.
The biggest problem, is that the owner is a shifty SOB, telling strange
stories. I hate that. I would never buy from a persom like that, except, how
often you see a descent 528i for that amount of money. He also said that,
although I could bring a mechanicin, he wouldn't let me check the car by taking 
it to a garage. Suspicious. And who knows what milage is on it.
So, let me know what to check for, given there's practically no rust.
I know there was an article on 528i in R&D a few years back, anybody remembers
what issue?
Mike.S

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103412
From: awhite@ssc.sas.upenn.edu (Andrew White)
Subject: Compilation of problems: 1985 Chevy Caprice

My 85 Caprice Classic with 120K+ miles has finally reached
the threshold of total number of mechanical problems that
I am forced to post :).  Anyone out there who might be
able to give me some pointers on one or more of the below,
please e-mail or post!

1. When making turns, especially when accelerating,
   there is usually a loud "thunk" from the rear of
   of the car.  Sounds like it could be the differential.
   What could cause this?  Is the differential going
   bad?  I recently had the differential fluid changed,
   and it DID have tiny metal bits in it.  (And no,
   the sound is NOT something rolling around in the
   trunk!)  

2. On starting the car, I get blue (oil) smoke from
   the exhaust for 5-10 seconds.  Exhaust valves
   going bad?  Worn rings?  Anyone know whether the
   valves on the 4.3 TBI engine can be lapped?

3. Brakes.  More pedal travel than I feel comfortable
   with, but master cylinder is full and fluid is
   relatively clear.  Pedal does NOT slowly sink to
   the floor when held down.  Pedal does not feel
   spongey, but I suppose that bleeding the brakes
   might help -- could anything else cause this?

4. Tranny.  Tranny problems seem to be slowly getting
   worse -- takes almost 2 seconds to downshift from
   3rd to 2nd on heavy throttle application, and more
   recently, it is reluctant to shift from 2nd to 3rd.
   Fluid (checked with car running with tranny put
   through all the gears and then back to park, as per
   Haynes manual) is red and clear, and is on full mark.

5. My springs all around are just about shot -- I have
   4 new shocks on, but car still skips out on bumps
   in turns at moderate to high speed.  How hard are
   they to change?  Can they be reconditioned?

I'd be interested in hearing from any GM full-size RWD owners
out there with stories to tell and/or advice.  Here in Philly,
these cars are apparently stolen(!) quite often and converted
into taxis.  Apparently the cab conversion shops will get a
junk title for the car or switch VINs with a car about to be
junked.  About 60% of Philly cabs are Caprice's, with most of
the rest being Crown Vic's with a few old New Yorkers and
Impalas (& Broughams).
-- 
Andrew White
awhite@mcneil.sas.upenn.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103413
From: lovall@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Daniel L. Lovall)
Subject: Buick heater controls

I have a '71 Buick Skylark with 148K on it.  I bought it in California, and if
it'll let me, I'd like to keep it for another year.  The only problem is these
Indiana winters--my heater controls don't work.

The car has vacuum operated control switches for the vents.  Right now it is
stuck in the "vent" mode.  It will blow warm air, but I can't switch the air
flow to either the floor (I can live without this) or the defrost (I can't 
live without this).  I probably could just jam the air deflector to the 
defrost position, but this blows a lot of air in my face and is, well,
kind of like putting a vacuum cleaner in reverse.

I have taken parts of the dash off and looked at the vacuum system and I think
the problem (or part of it) is with the two diaphragms which control up/down
and outside/inside air flow.  THe diaphragm which controls outside(vent)/in-
side(no vent) air is cracked most of the way around, and the other one is
probably damaged too, considering the advanced age of the car.

Two questions:

	1)  Is there anything I should be aware of about this (other than
	the fact that I should move from Indiana) ?

	2)  In the event that replacement diaphragms aren't available, is there
	a way to "fix" this?

THanks for any advice/info

selah,

Dan
lovall@physics.purdue.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103414
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Market Access

In article <1993Apr22.041452.27262@eecs.nwu.edu> andrew@eecs.nwu.edu
(Andrew Sung Hyun Kim) writes:
>...
>What about the rice import issue?  Of course, it is not closed up
>like a shell,  but how open is it compared to to US? 

Japan is _much_ more open than Korea.

Yes.  A Pontiac Grand Am suffers a factor of _2_ increase in price
when it is exported to Japan.

However, a Dodge vehicle (the one that Congressman Gephardt mentioned)
suffers a factor of _4_ increase in price when it is exported to Korea.
A Ford Taurus suffers the same problem.  A Honda Accord costs--I am
not making this up--$48,000 in Korea.

Just how many people would want to buy a Honda Accord for $48,000?

Solution:  All ships carrying Korean-made vehicles should be returned
           to Seoul.  Pronto.  Until as such time as Korea decides
           that it wants to abide by the rules of free and fair trade
           with the USA and Japan.

                                    ,,,  sayoonara
                                    o o /
--------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo-----------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                                     |   \|  |`
Imi ga nai yo.  Umarete kurou shite yatto shinde shimau.          |    | -+-
Semete shinde kara itsu made mo anshin dekiru.                    |   /| / \
Kami-sama, ima irasshaimasen ka.                                  |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103415
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: RE: IMPALA SS GOING INTO

-> Does that mean that they're gonna bring back the Biscayne and Bel
-> Air?

Or how about the 210?

george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org

George
                                                                                                             

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103416
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:


>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>have v engines.

>V4 - I don't know of any.
>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>V8 - Don't know of any.
>V12 - Jaguar XJS


> Please add to the list.


> Thanks,
> -S
> ssave@ole.cdac.com

	The Viper isn't an Inline 10 or Flat 10, is it?  I'm pretty sure its
a V-10.  Also, the Cizeta??? is a V-16, but it may not yet be more than a 
dream...


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103417
From: bep1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (bentz.e.puryear)
Subject: Re: Sport Utility Vehical comparisons? Any Opinions?

From article <1r1i7mINN4n4@cronkite.cisco.com>, by kmac@cisco.com (Karl Elvis MacRae):
> 
> 
> 	I just read articals on this in Road and Track and Car and Driver
> 	(Is that one mag or two? =B^), and I was wondering if people out
> 	there have any opinions that differed from what these mags have to
> 	say...
> 
> 
> 	I'm looking at the following three SUV's; anyone who's driven all
> 	three have any strong opinions?
> 
> 
> 	Ford Explorer
> 	Toyota 4Runner
> 	Nissan Pathfinder
> 
> 
> 	Currently I'm leaning toward the Toyota, 'cause I've had big success
> 	with Toyota trucks in the past, and 'cause I think it's the best
> 	looking of the three. But I thought I'd see if anyone has any strong 
> 	opinions....
> 
> 
> 
> 			Thanks!
> 
> 
> 	-Karl
> 

I agree that the Toyota is the best looking I just didn't fit plus it is the
highest cost of all the ones you mentioned. I have good friends who have all
three of the trucks you talked about, the ones with kids all went to the
ford because of the room required to carry a couple of kids and all the junk
you need. The single ones went for the Toyota and the Nissan. Every one has
been happy with what they bought. Although no one is into serious four wheel
off road driving.

> 
>   -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>   Karl Elvis MacRae	Software Release Support	Cisco Systems
>   kmac@cisco.com -or- batman@cisco.com     415-688-8231   DoD# 1999  FJ1200
>   -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> 	      "Shovels and rakes and implements of destruction"
> 						-Arlo Guthrie
-- 
====================================================================
Bentz Puryear (303)488-6120  (ncsc8!bep)     AT&T TSC
8300 E. Maplewood Ave.
Englewood, Colorado 80111        POWDER SKIING THE PATH TO SALVATION

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103418
From: robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson)
Subject: Re: Market Access

In article <1993Apr22.044605.29922@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1993Apr22.041452.27262@eecs.nwu.edu> andrew@eecs.nwu.edu
>(Andrew Sung Hyun Kim) writes:
>>...
>>What about the rice import issue?  Of course, it is not closed up
>>like a shell,  but how open is it compared to to US? 
>
>Japan is _much_ more open than Korea.
>
>Yes.  A Pontiac Grand Am suffers a factor of _2_ increase in price
>when it is exported to Japan.
>
>However, a Dodge vehicle (the one that Congressman Gephardt mentioned)
>suffers a factor of _4_ increase in price when it is exported to Korea.
>A Ford Taurus suffers the same problem.  A Honda Accord costs--I am
>not making this up--$48,000 in Korea.
>
>Just how many people would want to buy a Honda Accord for $48,000?
>
>Solution:  All ships carrying Korean-made vehicles should be returned
>           to Seoul.  Pronto.  Until as such time as Korea decides
>           that it wants to abide by the rules of free and fair trade
>           with the USA and Japan.

Now, now, before we get too carried away here....

Keep in mind that owning any car in Korea is a luxury that only the ruling
class can afford.  Every government agency worth its salt finds some reason
to levy a tax on car ownership; last I heard, there were seven different
fees to pay to own a car.  I believe this is the sort of petty bureaucratic
inefficiency that new President Kim Young Sam wants to eradicate.  Basically,
I think the rules came into place as bureaucrats from plebian backgrounds
wanted to wreak revenge on the ruling class.  In exchange, zaibatsu's like
Hyundai screwed over smaller companies, perpetuating a vicious cycle.
I have faith that Korean people can potentially build cars as well as anyone
else, but for now Hyundai cars seem to reflect the tensions within society,
of screwy components that won't work together.  Stubborn like a mule, the
car either won't go forward or won't stop at all.











Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103419
From: jg003b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Outatime)
Subject: Emergency Brake on '86 Nissan Maxima


	Just a quick, simple question really...

	How many wheels are affected by the emergency brake on an '86 Nissan
Maxima. I've heard that all four are affected, but this would seem unusual
to me. I thought the emergency brake on most cars only affected the rear
wheels. Also, how powerful is the emergency brake usually? Enough to lock
wheels at 30mph? Hmmmm... I just have to wonder about some of the things I
hear...

						Outatime ------->


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103420
From: jg003b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Outatime)
Subject: Thoughts on the VW Corrado VR6


	I was curious as to what people thought of the VW Corrado VR6?
That's about it...

						Outatime ------>


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103421
From: jfe@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Brian Chung)
Subject: Re: Market Access

In article <1r5acf$nh1@agate.berkeley.edu> robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson) writes:
>Now, now, before we get too carried away here....
>
>Keep in mind that owning any car in Korea is a luxury that only the ruling
>class can afford.  Every government agency worth its salt finds some reason
>to levy a tax on car ownership; last I heard, there were seven different
>fees to pay to own a car.  I believe this is the sort of petty bureaucratic
>inefficiency that new President Kim Young Sam wants to eradicate.  Basically,
>I think the rules came into place as bureaucrats from plebian backgrounds
>wanted to wreak revenge on the ruling class.  In exchange, zaibatsu's like
>Hyundai screwed over smaller companies, perpetuating a vicious cycle.
>I have faith that Korean people can potentially build cars as well as anyone
>else, but for now Hyundai cars seem to reflect the tensions within society,
>of screwy components that won't work together.  Stubborn like a mule, the
>car either won't go forward or won't stop at all.
>
	Hahahahahaha.  *gasp*  *pant*  Hm, I'm not sure whether the above
was just a silly remark or a serious remark.  But in case there are
some misconceptions, I think Henry Robertson hasn't updated his data
file on Korea since...mid 1970s.  Owning a car in Korea is no longer
a luxury.  Most middle class people in Korea can afford a car and do
have at least one car.  The problem in Korea, especially in Seoul, is
that there are just so many privately-owned cars, as well as taxis and
buses, the rush-hour has become a 24 hour phenomenon and that there is
no place to park.  Last time I heard, back in January, the Kim Administration
wanted to legislate a law requireing a potential car owner to provide
his or her own parking area, just like they do in Japan.

	Also, Henry would be glad to know that Hyundai isn't the only
car manufacturer in Korea.  Daewoo has always manufactured cars and
I believe Kia is back in business as well.  Imported cars, such as
Mercury Sable are becoming quite popular as well, though they are still
quite expensive.

	Finally, please ignore Henry's posting about Korean politics
and bureaucracy.  He's quite uninformed.
-- 
T. H. Brian Chung          | Happiness is...        | This .sig was brought
jfe@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu | "Tea, Earl Grey, hot." | to you by Frungy, the
jfe@cornella.bitnet        | 210 Lake St. Apt. 11-A | sport of kings.
CESR10::THC                | Ithaca, NY 14850       |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103422
From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
Subject: Honda clutch chatter

anyone else experiencing a similar problem?

This concerns the clutch on a 92 Honda Accord 5 speed. When the clutch
is first used in the morning, about the first 4 miles of shifting, there
is a significant amount of clutch chatter until things warm up.  Then the
clutch shifts smoothly.  This chatter started when I moved to the San 
Francisco Bay area from a low-humidity environment.  The dealer stated
that this is known to happen since Honda changed from an asbestos to
non-asbestos clutch material.  No remedy!! Seems that moisture on clutch
surface causes slipping until the moisture evaporates.

Any comments out there?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103423
From: bell@plains.NoDak.edu (Robert Bell)
Subject: Honda Civic/Saturn SL1 Info needed

To anyone with experience about Honda Civic (EX or DX) or Saturn SL1:

I would be interested in knowing how reliable these cars are, how expensive
they are to own and operate (parts, maintenance, gas, insurance), if the
dealers are good, and if they actually live up to their economy image.

Another question:  what would I expect to pay for a Civic EX coupe with
automatic, air, and an AM/FM radio?

Mail to the address below or post to this group.

Thanks, 

Rob

bell@plains.nodak.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103424
From: colello@cheshire.oxy.edu (Robert Colello)
Subject: Houston - Auto insurance.

Hello,
  I am moving to Houston to go to Rice University for graduate school.
I will be living on the corner of S. Mian and University Blvd.  I was
wondering what kind of liability rates to expect.  Here is the relevent
info.
      Sex: Male
      Age: 23
      Status: Single
      Commute: None, walking.
      Car: 1982 Ford Crown Victoria, 4 door

If anyone can check the above info, or is in a similar situation please
E-MAIL me the rates they find out or pay.  Thanks for your help in advance.

colello@delphi.com
colello@cheshire.oxy.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103425
From: pv9955@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: Buying a used car ...

I have a few questions about the TAX on  a used car purchase.
I live in New York State, and I am going to buy a used car.
I know that I will have to pay tax when I go to register the car.
But I would like to know of tax is payed on the book value of the car, or
on the purchase price.  Also, what tax rate is used ?  The owner lives in
Albany (8% tax), and I will be living in Saratoga with 7% tax.  
Do I pay Albany tax or Saratoga tax ?  (the difference is a whole $50)
One more thing, how much does it cost for the usual 2 year registration ?

Did I leave anything out ? What else might I have to know to purchase and
register a used car ?  (I've never done this before.)

Thank you,
Peter Volpe

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103426
From: jmiller@network.com (Jeff J. Miller)
Subject: Re: Need info on Porsche 914's

In article 6126@midway.uchicago.edu, buzy@quads.uchicago.edu (Len Buzyna) writes:
>Hi there,
>I've recently been toying with the idea of purchasing an old 914. The going
>rate seems to be about $4000 for cars with anywhere from 40-80K Mi.
>My question is this- what should I expect at this price? Should I expect to
>have extensive body work done? What about engine & transmission- should I
>likewise expect to have both virtually replaced? Along those lines,
>does anyone have the names & addresses of any mail-order parts
>suppliers for everything from engine to body parts? I'm completely new
>to the area of restoring cars, and as I don't actually do any work with
>cars, most of the work would have to be professionally done- what sould
>I expect the cost of upgrading a 914 to a rust-free, mechanically
>sound automobile?
>Thanks in advance,
>Andre 
>..
>

True 914 enthusiasts will be able to give you a better answer then this
but I'll dump my impressions.  I've wanted to own a 914 for about 10 years
now; came close once but I ended up buying a Fiero instead (biggest mistake
of my life!)

Anyway, for $4000 you should be able to get a nice car but your also set
in the price range to get taken by a nice looker that is a pile of shit.
The most common total failure for the car would be frame rust between the
engine and passenger compartment.  Also look for chassis welded together
here.  Oh yeah, the price range you are talking about must be the 4 banger;
a 6 (if you could find one) would be mucho more bucks.

Parts for the engine are pretty easy to come by (for an old car) and you
can even locate crude in the JC Whitney catalog if you have too.

The machine itself is pretty simple (they use the spare tire for windshild
washer instead of a pump fer chris sake!) so getting it fixed by a good
bug/porsche mechanic would be easy.  Since it is mid-engine you may spend
more on labor for any mechanical work.

--
Jeff Miller                 Network Systems Corporation
Internetwork Group          7600 Boone Avenue North
jmiller@network.com         Minneapolis MN 55428   (612)424-4888


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103427
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

In article <Apr21.221608.22391@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.204521.21182@ultb.isc.rit.edu> adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>>The sound he describes is common to any older Toyota engine I ever heard.
>>I don't know the relevance of his observations about oil changes, my simply
>>makes noise. Not all that annoying, mind you. But you hear it well when the
>>engine is right behind your left ear :-)
>
>i think those with 1.6 MR2's would describe the engine as sweet if a
>little loud, those with 2.2 MR2's i can't imagine any unbiased person
>paying it any compliments.  sounded like my ex-dormmate's rusty chevy
>chevette.  with the 1.6 i would want to redline it just for the music,
>with the 2.2 i would short shift so that it would shut up..  the new
>camry 2.2 features balance shafts.  i guess since the mr2 is getting
>the axe, it is too late for them to do anything about this..
>
>it is no mystery that the turbo mr2 is "only" 2 liters.. the engineers
>had enough integrity to prevent any further abuses.  also, in europe
>the MR2 Mk2 non-turbo was also "only" 2 liters.. as usual, the
>undiscriminating american market (if it is japanese it *must* be good)
>gets the dogs.. to be fair, we also got the turbo, which the europeans

Well, the 1.6 IS music to my ears. I often turn my stereo off and just run
it towards red line on nice twisty roads. But Toyota engines at idle have
a strange "bells and whisstles at the bottom of a matal can" sound. I can't
describe it any better.
Just like all the older Benzes have a very characteristic clattering sound
at idle. Do you know what I'm referring to?
MIke.S


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103428
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: Opel owners?


In article <C5tB2F.585@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:


|> Manta's are also ve hot and fun cars too.

hahahahahahahahahahaha - thanks for that, I haven't laughed so much in 
ages!

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103429
From: oaddab@stdvax (DIRK BROER)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu>, davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes...
>I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
>they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
>worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
>also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
> 
>I'm interestend in determining whether or not these things are true.
>Has anyone out there with Geico made a claim?  I'd be interested in
>hearing whether or not you were satisfied with the service and whether
>you then had trouble renewing your policy.
> 
>I'm also interested in any good or bad stories about Liberty Mutual or
>State Farm.
> 
Geico supports (reads gives to police) Laser Radars.  They have been known 
to be very picky.  No sports cars. No radar detectors (although Maryland 
insurance board over rules this consistantly). No turbos.

Basically it seems if you need to use your insurance ever they don't want 
you.  They once told me they wouldn't insure me (perfect record) because of 
my corvette even though it would be insured by another specialty insurance. 
 "We must insure all the cars".  I think this rep didn't know what she was 
talking about.

Geico is cheap.  But if you ever file a claim be prepared to be dropped.  I 
think in most areas two tickets will do it.

Geico will never see a dime from me If I can help it.

State Farm.  Slighty higher than most but very good response.  Not as picky 
as Geico. 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103430
From: singer@ll.mit.edu (Matthew R. Singer)
Subject: Opel-GT


--

Are the any Opel GT's out there? I'm wondering if there are enough to
starting a mail list...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew R. Singer                                    MIT Lincoln Laboratory
(617) 981-3771                                       244 Wood Street
singer@ll.mit.edu                                    Lexington, MA 02173
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103431
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: KEYLESS ENTRY... NOW HOW

Bruce James writes:


-> Without the key, though, the steering column 'lock' would have to be
-> sacrificed.

Not necessarily. Maybe some  sort of servo lock or something along those
lines could be used to acheive the same effect. Maybe a solenoid type of
thing too.

George Howell

     _____
  __|     |____            M   M   OOO  PPP   AAA   RRR
 /            /            MM MM  O   O P  P A   A  R  R
/___       __/             M M M  O   O PPP  AAAAA  RRR
    |______|               M   M  O   O P    A   A  R  R
 _________________         M   M   OOO  P    A   A  R  R
/                 \        :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
|      FORD       |        :'Better Living Through American Horsepower':
\_________________/        :George Howell                              :
                           :george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org      :
                           :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
                                                                                  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103432
From: george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) 
Subject: RE: IMPALA SS GOING INTO

GM has always screwed the rest of the divisions in favor of the
Corvette. The current platform is no exception. The "detuned" Camaro and
Firebird is a load of crap to keep people from realizing that they can
buy one of these instead of a Corvette and save about $10,000.

I like the idea of an Impala SS, but if they really wanted to impress
me, they would throw in a big phat 454. Imagine the cops in their Taurus
police package 3.0 and 3.8 litres as they stare at your taillights...

George Howell

     _____
  __|     |____            M   M   OOO  PPP   AAA   RRR
 /            /            MM MM  O   O P  P A   A  R  R
/___       __/             M M M  O   O PPP  AAAAA  RRR
    |______|               M   M  O   O P    A   A  R  R
 _________________         M   M   OOO  P    A   A  R  R
/                 \        :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
|      FORD       |        :'Better Living Through American Horsepower':
\_________________/        :George Howell                              :
                           :george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org      :
                           :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
                                                                                                                        

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103433
From: <ICJPS@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

In article <C5yDwp.6G0@ncube.com>, bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) says:
>
>Either choice is good, but beware that
>I did not experience reasonable mileage
>with the V6.  Average city driving was
><15mpg, with about 21 avg. on the highway.

My Nissan Quest has been doing 20mpg city, though its first few tanks
were more like 17mpg.  The V6 and AT are remarkably smooth.
---
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Johnny P. Stephens           | Sig file upgrade on backorder.  Will be
Distance Learning Technology | here "any day now."
Arizona State University     |  Opinions expressed are mine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103434
From: battan@sequent.com (Jim Battan)
Subject: Re: 300ZX or SC300???

In article <1993Apr19.000758.53229@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) writes:
>I'm getting a car in the near future.  I've narrow it down to 300ZX and SC300.
>Which might be a better choice?

Having driven both, and having owned an SC300 for 14 months now, all I can
say is "it depends".  They're both great cars.  In fact, my wife and I
are saving our pennies so we can get her the 300ZX convertible in a year.
The 300ZX handles like a dream, while the SC300 rides like a dream.
Fit and finish on both are excellent, but the Lexus gets the nod in
customer satisfaction.  They're both very attractive, and hideously
expensive.  The resale value of the SC is better than the ZX.  The
300ZX isn't available with traction control, which makes it a handful
on slippery surfaces.
-- 
Jim Battan - Sequent Computer Systems, Beaverton, OR
battan@sequent.com or uunet!sequent!battan
+1 503 578 5129

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103435
Subject: Re:  Geeko  (waz: Geico Annoyance)
From: alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung)

In article <C5w7GF.M5o@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>if you want to annoy geico, call them up...give fake name...but real car 
>specs..get a quote and then tell them they are more expensive than your 
>current state farm/allstate insurance.  they will still send you quote etc.
>then you can tear up their quote and stuff it in the prepaid return 
>envelope and mail it back to them.  actually they were $12 more than my current
>state farm rates.


Actually, I've had a bad habit of stuffing a whole bunch of other garbage
junk mail in along with whatever else into *anybody's* prepaid envelopes
until they almost burst.  I believe they pay postage by weight.
heh, heh, heh...

Anyways, don't tear up the quotes just yet...I sometimes use their
quotes or other insurance quotations as leverage to haggle for a
lower rate elsewhere.  Usually it works to *your* advantage if 
they are lower.

aaron


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103436
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?

In article 1r3n32INNk9p@ctron-news.ctron.com, smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.032905.29286@reed.edu>, rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr20.174246.14375@wam.umd.edu> lerxst@wam.umd.edu (where's my  thing) writes:
>>> It was called a Bricklin.
>
>>Bricklins were manufactured in the 70s with engines from Ford.
>
>Waitaminnit, didn't the Bricklin have an Pugeot six-cylinder?  Or am I
>confusing it with the DeLorean?  I was sure the DeLorean had a v8.
>

The DeLorean had the yucky PRV V6 engine. A joint-venture between Peugout (note 
spelling), Renault and Volvo. PRV. This engine is a *MIGHTY BORING* piece of
junk with approx 140hp. Doesn't like revs at all.

If you look at the DeLorean in the movie Back To the Future you will note
that they changed the engine sound to a big V8. A real DeLorean doesn't sounds
half as good. You will also note that every time they have to spin the tires
in the movie the ground is all wet. This is because a DeLorean can't make
a burnout on a dry road! The weak engine thats mounted over the rear axle
makes it almost impossible.

Markus
>Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
>-
>Liberty is not the freedom to do whatever we want,
>it is the freedom to do whatever we are able.





Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103437
From: erich.lim@yob.sccsi.com (Erich Lim) 
Subject: RE: MILITECH

jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen) writes:

-> I saw an interesting product in NY Auto Show, and would like to hear
-> your comments.
->
-> MILITECH(tm) is yet another oil additive. But the demonstration of
-> this product really impressive, if it didn't cheat.

  Well, I heard that Militech stuff works pretty good too.. One of my
friends who races in SCCA sanctioned events and all that stuff got the
Militech stuff early as a trial thing, and he put it in his CRX..  He
says it worked great, but I didn't ask him for any details.


-Erich
erich.lim@yob.sccsi.com
                                                                       
----
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ye Olde Bailey BBS   713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis)     |
|   Houston,Texas          yob.sccsi.com       Home of alt.cosuard       |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103438
From: jahonen@cc.lut.fi (Jarmo Ahonen)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane) writes:

>As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
>here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....
>-- 

Many cars sold here in Finland are *small* and *cheap* cars (at least when
compared to other cars --- note that we have over 120 % car tax).

And you couldn't expect a good auto mated to a 1.3 L engine?

Most of the bigger cars are, however, sold with autos.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103439
From: truesdal@david.wheaton.edu (Phil Truesdale)
Subject: MGB questions

My son is considering the purchase of a 71 MGB, which has been substantially
restored.  The odometer has rolled over, but we can't be sure of the actual
mileage.  The engine and drive train apparently weren't touched in the
restoration, except for a new carb and a few hoses.  He plans to do vacuum and
compression checks to see what they might tell us about the engine.  The body
and undercarriage have no visible rust, the interior is new, as are tires,
front brakes (not sure about the back), battery, bumpers and other misc parts.
The paint is checked in a few places, and scuffed here and there, allegedly by
a wind-blown car cover.  It seemed to handle OK, except for soft front shocks.
Questions:

Are there problem areas common to MGBs we should check out?

The brakes seem soft and rather ineffective; what should we expect in the way
of braking action?

It seemed to be "doggy" when accelerating from a stop.  What should we expect
it to do, given the 4-cylinder engine?

The top is in place, but will not reach a number of the snaps.  The weather
was cold.  Should the vinyl stretch and fit when it warms up, or is it forever
shrunk?

Is it normal for the wire wheels to be painted, or are they usually chromed?

Given this rather limited description, what would be a reasonable price?

Gee, this turned out to be a little long--sorry.  While my brother once owned
an XK120 Jag (what a car!) we're obviously not into sports cars.  Any help with
these questions, or suggestions on other things to investigate would surely be
appreciated.

Phil Truesdale
truesdal@david.wheaton.edu


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103440
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Subject: States that charges sales tax after trade-in?

Which Western states have laws that charge sales tax on the difference between
a new car's price and the trade-in's value?  I know California charges you on 
the full value of the new vehicle regardless of trade-in.

If you are a California resident, is it legal to buy a car in a state other than
California without also paying California sales tax?  How does California 
enforce any law that requires you to also pay California sales tax (on top of 
the out-of-state tax)?

-- 
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103441
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...


In article <1993Apr20.224622.21992@voodoo.ca.boeing.com>, tomm@hank.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey) writes:

|> >You do have the power Steve. You *can* do it. Why don't you? Why don't you
|> >go shoot some kids who are tossing rocks onto cars? Make sure you do a good
|> >job though - don't miss - 'cause like they have big rocks - and take it from
|> >me - those kids are mean.
|> 
|> That is absolutely correct.  They have a streak of meanness that runs much
|> deeper and stronger than anything I ever experienced even during the height
|> of the 60's racial struggles.  I am absolutely convinced that there are
|> kids out there today that have no concept of right and wrong, but have the
|> human intelligence which is turning them into the greatest predators that
|> have ever walked the earth.  They will prevail unless the rest of humanity
|> decides that it is in their best interest to stand up against these feral
|> humans, and for individuals to start taking some responsibility for their
|> own protection.  In a state in which the individuals turn to the authorities
|> and police for protection, the police and government is soon composed of
|> the very feral humans that they originally sought protection from.

And I thought the nutters were the ones throwing the bricks from the
bridge.......

|> Gee, I guess you touched my hot button.  I'd better go cool off somewhere.

An institution?


|> Tom Mackey          (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.ca.boeing.com
|> Boeing Computer Services               ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
|> M/S 7K-20,       P.O. Box 24346,       Seattle, WA       98124-0346

kevinh@hasler.asco.ch

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103442
From: jdrout@scott.skidmore.edu (JTD is lost)
Subject: Honda New Car Info


From Kay Honda's "Helpful HInts ABout Your Honda" infromation sheet
(given to new owners of Honda vehicles).

"A burning smell may be evident from your new car shortly after taking
delivery."
--I now own a fire extinguisher;>--


"On Prelude S mels at temperatures above 32 degrees push the
accelerator pedal to the floor one time, release slowly, and with your
foot off the accelerator, crank the engine until it starts.  Moe than
5 seconds [!!!!!!! my note] of cranking may be required.  In
temperatures below 32 degrees the accelerator will have to be
depressed 2-3 times."

"Door panels and interior trim can be damaged if they are not buckled
by getting caught when closing doors."

"When shifting accord automatic transmissions from Park Neutral, or
Reverse into Drive the transmission shifts into 3rd gear."

"In case of towing:
	1- Start the engine
	2- Shift into drive from Park, then from Drive to neutral
	3- Turn off engine"
--what if you are getting towed b/c engine won't run?--

"IF ENGINE DOES NOT RUN DO NOT USE THIS PROCEDURE!"
--Phew, I was worried!--

		Insert smilies where appropriate, though this is REAL.

Jonathan

jdrout@scott.skidmore.edu
Skidmore College, Saratoga NY
93 Civic Si + aftermarket fogs (if you own one, you understand!)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103443
From: c23tvr@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Thomas Redmond)
Subject: Re: $6700 for hail damage - a record?


In article <1993Apr21.053516.28846@cactus.org>, boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle) writes:
> In article <1993Apr20.203219.7724@pencom.com> stecz@pencom.com writes:
> >In article <1993Apr19.235711.7285@cactus.org> boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)  
> >writes:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> My 90 Integra was hit hard in the 3/25 hailstorm in Austin, TX. 
> >> The insurance company cut me a check for $6600 ($100 deductible)
> >> last week.  Is this a record? Anybody else had settlements from
> >> the same hailstorm yet?
> >> 
> >> Craig
> >
> >
> >Rumor has it that a guy at Dell Computer had his Miata totalled, so that would  
> >be about $10k.
> 
> I guess it either had the top down, or the hail ripped through the top, as
> you could not do $10k worth of hail damage to a Miata body. 
> 
> Craig
> >
> >
> >--
> >--
> >  John Steczkowski                        stecz@pencom.com
> >    The Constitution grants you the right to life, liberty, and the
> >    *pursuit* of happiness.  It does not attempt to guarantee that
> >    everyone *will* be happy.
> 
> 
There was a Volvo owner that had $3000 dollars worth of improvements to the 
looks of the car by hail :).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103444
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: Ad said Nissan Altima best seller?

In article <C5uFLH.4p4@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> markg@sr.hp.com (Mark Goldsworthy) writes:
>I just bought an Altima (and like it very much) and yes there is a
>little Stanza logo ever so discretely placed on the trunk. The Altima is
>emblazoned in big silver letters, but the itsy-bitsy Stanza is shunted
>to the far left of the trunk lid. You can only see it if you get up
>close to the car and know where to look. It is very inconspicuous.
>
>In fact my first clue that this was a Stanza was that the owners manual
>called the car a Nissan Stanza Altima.
>
>Anybody know *why* Nissan did it this way?

To avoid paperwork associated with re-certification as a brand new car,
etc. So for ad purposes it's a brand new nameplate, for paperwork it's
still a Stanza.

Spiros


-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103445
From: michal+@cs.cmu.edu (Michal Prussak)
Subject: Re: Pennsylvania Insurance, Limited Tort Option

In article <34666@oasys.dt.navy.mil> glouie@oasys.dt.navy.mil (George Louie) writes:
>coverage.  This also applies to my existing car insurance policy.  Does
>anyone understand what the "Limited Tort Option" means.  Will it lower
>my rates if I opt to have it, or will it be more expensive if I opt
>to have it?  What does it do for me (in layman's terms please)?  Is
>it a good deal or should I ignore it?  I'm not the type to sue anyone
>at a drop of the hat nor am I the type to report every little ding to

Limited Tort Option will lower your rates. If you choose it, you can't
sue others for pain & suffering, but you still can sue for economic loss.
So you can sue for your wrecked car and for medical bills, but you can't
sue for $1000000 for pain and suffering.

At least, that's how I understand it.

Michal

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103446
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article Dxp@lut.fi, jahonen@cc.lut.fi (Jarmo Ahonen) writes:
>kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane) writes:
>
>>As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
>>here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....
>>-- 
>
>Many cars sold here in Finland are *small* and *cheap* cars (at least when
>compared to other cars --- note that we have over 120 % car tax).
>
>And you couldn't expect a good auto mated to a 1.3 L engine?
>
>Most of the bigger cars are, however, sold with autos.
>


I would guess the high price of gas in Europe (compared to the US) has
always favoured 4-cylinder manuals.

small engines with autos are a real bore...

But why not turn the question around, why are automatics so common in
the US?

My guess is that when they tried to couple manuals to the torque-rich
V8's in the sixties the clutches turned out as real killers you had to 
use both feet to depress, and that this has just lived on.

And also, an automatic with a V8 engine can be real fun to drive.

Markus


__________________________________________________________________________
   _    _     _     ____              _________        
  / |  / |   / |   /   / /  /  /   / /       
 /  | /  |  /__|  /___/ /--|  /   / /___     '75 Chevy Camaro 350/TH350
/   |/   | /   | /   | /   | /___/ ____/     '87 Peugout 205 1.4/4-speed

Don't ask what your car can do for you-ask what you can do for your car.  __________________________________________________________________________


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103447
From: gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Gallant)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)


I would gladly spend twice the money for insurance, rather than using
Geico.  Not only do they supply radar guns to the police they also want
to make radar detectors illegal.  They also ask if you have a detector
(probably to put you in a high risk group or just refuse to insure you).

I know a few people who were droped by geico due to an accident that
was not their fault.

Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103448
From: donald.wendel@yob.sccsi.com (Donald Wendel) 
Subject: Compilation of problems:


AW>>>My 85 Caprice Classic with 120K+ miles has finally reached
  >>>the threshold of total number of mechanical problems that
  >>>I am forced to post :).  Anyone out there who might be
  >>>able to give me some pointers on one or more of the below,
  >>>please e-mail or post!

AW>>>1. When making turns, especially when accelerating,
  >>>there is usually a loud "thunk" from the rear of
  >>>of the car.  Sounds like it could be the differential.

Wheel bearing, ujoint.


AW>>>2. On starting the car, I get blue (oil) smoke from
  >>>the exhaust for 5-10 seconds.  Exhaust valves

Bad valve stem seals.

AW>>>3. Brakes.  More pedal travel than I feel comfortable
  >>>with, but master cylinder is full and fluid is

Worn pads, rear brakes not adjusted up tight or worn out drums.
90% of low pedal complaints usually are from a rear brake problem.

AW>>>4. Tranny.  Tranny problems seem to be slowly getting
  >>>worse -- takes almost 2 seconds to downshift from
  >>>3rd to 2nd on heavy throttle application, and more
  >>>recently, it is reluctant to shift from 2nd to 3rd.
  >>>Fluid (checked with car running with tranny put
  >>>through all the gears and then back to park, as per
  >>>Haynes manual) is red and clear, and is on full mark.
Possible modulator valve if equipped with one. Also could be the
kickdoen cable.

AW>>>5. My springs all around are just about shot -- I have
  >>>4 new shocks on, but car still skips out on bumps
  >>>in turns at moderate to high speed.  How hard are
  >>>they to change?  Can they be reconditioned?
Difficult on front. Easy on rear. They are not expensive. about $75-$100
for front and less than $50 for the rear.

Its also kind of dangerous to work on the front springs without the
proper equipment.
                                                        Don


 * SLMR 2.1a * I put spot remover on my dog....Spots gone!
                                              
----
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ye Olde Bailey BBS   713-520-1569 (V.32bis) 713-520-9566 (V.32bis)     |
|   Houston,Texas          yob.sccsi.com       Home of alt.cosuard       |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103449
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: .Extensions

I was wondering what the country extension are.
Sometimes I just don't have a clue from where
some people are writing.

These are the extensions I know of

ch   Switzerland
se   Sweden
fi   Finland
uk   UK
Com  US?
Edu  US?     (are both com and edu US?) 
fr   France

Please feel free to add to this list.

/ Markus

__________________________________________________________________________
   _    _     _     ____              _________        
  / |  / |   / |   /   / /  /  /   / /       
 /  | /  |  /__|  /___/ /--|  /   / /___     '75 Chevy Camaro 350/TH350
/   |/   | /   | /   | /   | /___/ ____/     '87 Peugout 205 1.4/4-speed

Don't ask what your car can do for you-ask what you can do for your car.  __________________________________________________________________________


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103450
From: eliot@engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: REVIEW: Audi S4 quattro

It's been a while since I've reviewed a car but today I paid a visit
to an old friend whose love for Audis has been so overwhelming that he
makes a not too sucessful living selling them.

Without further delay, I will get to the 1993 Audi S4:


1) Servotronic steering:

[For those who are not familiar with what Servotronic is, it is the
name for the speed variable power steering manufactured by ZF and
used in Audis and BMWs.]

I have been outspoken in my damming of Servotronic over the past
couple of months, and this was based on magazine reviews and drives of
the Audi 90 CS quattro and the Audi 100CS fwd.  I am quite happy to
report now that on the S4, the Servotronic is *inoffensive*.  I
suppose that due to the fat gumball tires, the Servotronic has been
loaded up more and this, so far has been the best implementation that
I have tried.  It is far from perfect, mind you, and I'd be much
happier if it was an option that I could refuse, but on the S4, I no
longer consider this to be bad enough where I feel the entire car is
ruined.

The steering is still a tad too light, but it is accurate and I
suppose the stiffly sprung chassis sends back so much information that
some makes it through to the driver's hands.  So there is feel and
there is accuracy in the S4's steering.  But there is also room for
improvement.  I consider the S4's steering to be better than the
Japanese competition, primarily because the Japanese do not believe in
"feel" and engineer it out completely.


2) Engine

Wheee! What a pressure cooker.  With just 110 miles on the clock I did
not expect the S4 to be producing anywhere close to what it will be
putting out 10000 miles later, but still, the car packs a terrific
punch.  For a turbocharged machine, it is very unusual in that it
encourages lazy driving.  i.e. low revs, high gear.  It is so
supremely flexible that one could hardly believe that there's only 2.2
liters of displacement to move this 3700 pound car around in such a
fashion.  With maximum torque available at 1950 rpm and a 7200 rpm
redline, the car can pretty much be left in third all day.. which
translates to a speed range of something like 20-100 mph.  A
chracteristic that one normally associates with large capacity V8s.
The technical achievement is breadthtaking.

Throttle response is right up there with a good atmospheric engine. In
fact, it would even put peaky multivalve engines to shame. Downshifts
are almost unnecessary.  It is more fun to use the "overboost" feature
than to rev the engine.  For those not familiar, the S4 engine features
up to 15 seconds of additional turbo boost for passing.  Sort of like
lighting up the after burners in a jet fighter, one could, with the
right foot only, in third gear, blast the car from 30 to 80 in just a
few moments.. simply by flooring the gas.  As far as the numbers go,
maximum torque available in overboost mode shoots up to about 270 lb
ft.. incredible for a 2.2 liter.  It takes a few moments for it to
develop overboost but it is well worth waiting for.  Since this is quite
a heavy car, one's body parts are not flung around like say, the Corrado
VR6.  The acceleration is smooth and strong, somewhat similar to riding
in a jetliner as it accelerates down the runway on takeoff.  Also, one
is treated to a very distinctive and entertaining whistle from the
turbo.. the only entertaining sound to come out of a very
refined but bland sounding 5 banger..

Yes, Audi has refined the 5 to the point where at 7200 rpm it sounds as
serene as it does at 2000.  The smoothness is outstanding, but not quite
up to the standards of a very good 6, e.g. a 12 valve BMW.  I'd say that
in terms of refinement, i.e. willingness to rev, smoothness, lack of
harshness under full acceleration it is better than many V6s.  However,
lost in the refinement process is the characteristic 5 cylinder bark
that made the older engines so characterful, if not terribly refined.
The 20 valve turbo 5 sounds pretty bland except for the whistle under
full boost.  Subjectively, I'd rate the VW VR6 engine as being far more
musical than the turbo 5.. Also, Audi's own V8 is also far more musical,
with a rorty race car growl when pressed,  though none of these can
match its grunt.

The only hint of the engine's true capacity occurs when one is taking
off from rest after the turbo has come to a near stop.  With the extra
inertia from the permanently engaged 4wd system, one has to be somewhat
delicate in feeding in the clutch to prevent an embarassing stall. 
Alternately one could use more revs.. In both cases a very small price
to pay for such a fantastic engine.  I think that Audi of America should
offer an automatic option for this car, just as they offer (though in
extremely small numbers) a 5 speed for the much peakier V8.  The
characteristics of the engine are perfect for an automatic.  Ironically,
in europe a slush is available but none is offered for the land of the
slush.  Marketing twits rearing their ugly heads again...


3) Chassis

I've noticed that Audis tend to have very wide wheels and relatively
modest tire widths.  The car comes with Firestones of size 225/50 ZR16..
which is not uncommon at all.  However, the very attractive 5 spoke
wheels are no less than 8 inches wide, so there is no sidewall bulge
whatsoever.  Combined with the flared wheel arches, the S4 has a mouth
watering macho, yet subdued look. 

On rough concrete, it becomes immediately clear that the new 100 body
style has made significant advances in structural rigidity as well as
road noise suppression.. I suppose the two are inter-related, but I
digress.  To use a cliche, the S4's body feels like it has been carved
out of stone.  Flex is totally undetectable, even when going over rough
roads.  With a super rigid body like this stiff springs and stiff dampers
do not cause excessive harshness and while the S4's ride quality will
never worry a Lexus, it will also not draw comparisons to trucks or
pony cars.

The servotronic steering has already been mentioned.  I consider it to
be inoffensive because it did not inhibit spirited cornering.  I  was
able to test the car's cornering powers without too much trepidation. I
think a new concept is at work in this car.  With its fat gumball tires,
talking about understeer or oversteer is practically meaningless.  On a
banked highway on ramp, I went in slow and started applying power as I
went around.  I could feel the g forces build to the point where the
skin on my face was being tugged sideways.  Yet the car was totally and
completely obedient to throttle and steering inputs.. It felt that the
limits were not even close to being approached.  The g forces were
thrilling, but the entire affair of going around a curve is strangely
uninvolving.  You tell the car what you want and it does it.  End of
story.  I think that I am starting to relate more and more to those
reviewers who were highly impressed by the Honda NSX's clinical
efficiency but were unable to fall in love with the car.

The brakes have a very good firmness to them and stop the car pretty
well too, though I've read that they are prone to fade.  I am not too
surprised, since the S4 does not have uprated brakes over the base Audi
100 fwd. Harder pads would help, but that in turn would lead to a more
wooden response when cold.  I am starting to see a trend among the
luxury/sports sedan makers where extra weight is not being offset by
additional braking capacity.  The LS400's fade performance is nothing to
brag about; neither is the Q45's or the Legend's.  Brake fade these days
seem to be a forgotten virtue when everybody's attention is focused on
anti-lock capability.


4) Comfort

For a car with such sporty abilities, its comfort levels are also
excellent.  The cabin is beautifully appointed, with carbon-fiber panel
inserts in place of the wood trim of the '92 S4.  All the expected
gizmos are there.. heated seats, power seats, seat memory, power this
and that.  The glaring ommision was the trip computer, which was removed
because Audi hasn't gotten it to work reliably yet.. That means that the
car has no boost gauge.  A real disappointment taking into account how
much the turbo dominates its performance.  

Unusual for the germans, the S4 comes with a Honda style moonroof, as
well as the very intelligent dial-a-sunroof-position rotary switch.

Noise levels, including engine and tire noise is so low that I wouldn't
consider the Lexus' advantage in this area to be significant enough
to sway a potential buyer.


5) Conclusion

Even though few will be able to afford an Audi S4 at its sticker price
of $48K, the car is a bargain if one takes into account what it has to
offer over the competition.  The 20 valve turbo 5 is a real gem, even if
it doesn't produce Ferrari sounds.  No other luxury/sports sedan maker
offers the utter security of quattro all wheel drive, which to some is
worth the extra money all by itself.  The safety features are also 
top notch.. 1994 side impact standard compliant, the very elegant 
automatic seat belt tensioners and the dual airbags.  The 100 series
Audis have been outstanding in government crash tests.  It gets my
thumbs up for being so overwhelmingly capable rather than being
all out exciting and intoxicating.


eliot


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103451
From: jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: Houston - Auto insurance.

In article <1993Apr22.045328.630@cheshire.oxy.edu> colello@cheshire.oxy.edu (Robert Colello) writes:
>
>Hello,
>  I am moving to Houston to go to Rice University for graduate school.
>I will be living on the corner of S. Mian and University Blvd.  I was
>wondering what kind of liability rates to expect.  Here is the relevent
>info.
>      Sex: Male
>      Age: 23
>      Status: Single
>      Commute: None, walking.
>      Car: 1982 Ford Crown Victoria, 4 door
>
>If anyone can check the above info, or is in a similar situation please
>E-MAIL me the rates they find out or pay.  Thanks for your help in advance.
>
>colello@delphi.com
>colello@cheshire.oxy.edu
>

My suggestion look at your current insurance card, there will be a name 
accross the top telling you which insurance company you are insured by.
Call information in Houston and get the number of a branch office in the 
Houston area, call the insurance company.

Your rates will vary depending on the amount of coverage you want,
do you want to carry comp and collision (probably not on an 82),
what your driving record is.  You mentioned none of these things in your
posting so how can anyone give you accurate information.

Like I said, pick up the phone and make a few calls, it won't kill you.


Jeff




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103452
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: service indicator of a BMW

Derek....

There is a tool available to reset the service indicator on BMWs but the lights
will come back on after 2-3 weeks. The tool is in fact illegal (in Europe 
atleast). It is often the case that the unsuspecting punter trots off to buy a 
used BMW and a few weeks later, all the lights come on! Other than that, I know 
of no other tool.... anyone else? 

About changing oil every 15,000 miles.... thats ok.... on newer Audis, they 
only require it after every 12,000 miles (I am talking about an oil change)
Just a query: do you drive your car VERY VERY carefully? Like no sudden 
acceleration etc? If yeah, then the 15,000 M oil change seems quite reasonable.
But if you drive kinda fast... I'd get a bit up tight abot that 15,000 thingy

(a point to note: just because the first light came on at 3k, doesn't mean
all the others will come on every 3k too)

							....Shaz....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103453
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: MR2 - noisy engine.

Just a quick note on the nwe shape MR2s in the UK.... 

When they first came out here, there were 3 models. The base model had an 
auto box and engine from the CAMRY 2.0 !!! Well I recentyl found out that this 
model is no longer profitable for Toyota and have since scraped it. I've also
noticed that auto MR2s have depreciated a lot more than the next model up...

Surprise surprise huh? Oh.... you lucky Americans have the turbo MR2 :-(
No such luck over here :-(
						....Shaz...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103454
From: sjcostan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Scott J Costanzo)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

     I used to drive a truck a few years back. I once rode with an old codger
that had been driving for about 30 yrs. The only time he would use the clutch
was to get the truck moving. He could shift that 13 speed lightning quick, up
or down, without the slightest rake of a gear. He was as smooth as silk. It was
the most amazing shifting demonstration I've ever seen! Having said all that I 
still don't know why anyone would want to shift a synchronized tranny without a
clutch? Why do it?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103455
From: rick@posms.aus.tx.us (Rick Kirchhof)
Subject: Re: A/C Service Rip-off

In article <1993Apr23.155215.2838@chpc.utexas.edu> ivab015@chpc.utexas.edu (Albert Wu) writes:
>I went to a place called American Car Care Centers to check my car for A/C
>leak.  After "checking", I was told that there is a leak in the compressor
>seal.  At the end, in addition to the labor for the check, I was charged 12
>dollars for a pound of freon, although they evacuated my A/C afterwards
>because of the leak.  First, is it fair for him to charge me for a pound of
>freon ($12 plus tax) ?  Second, what can I do about this if this is unfair ?
>
>-- Albert Wu.

For the information of those not "lucky" enough to live in the city of
Austin, TX, if an auto a/c system is checked and found to have leaks,
it must be repaired at that time, or evacuated.  This is an ordinance
unique (I think) to the city of Austin.

Freon is subject to increasing taxes, but $12 is about 2X cost here.
Recovered freon is not required to be "purchased" from the car it is
withdrawn from.  As a matter of practice, some shops here are charging 
a recycling fee that is less than the cost of the freon removed if it 
is reintroduced to the system.

Just another quality service from an _Enviornmentally Conscious_ city.

-- 
Rick Kirchhof   Austin, Texas                   | Experience is what you
Domain: rick@posms.aus.tx.us                    | get when you don't
Bang path: .....!cfi.org!posms!rick             | get what you want.            
===========================================================================

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103456
From: bsw@utrc.utc.com (Bruce S. Winters)
Subject: Re: Warped brake discs on '91 Taurus L

In article <1993Apr14.225821.13000@advtech.uswest.com> joe@advtech.uswest.com ( Joe Thielen) writes:
>Xref: sun1x rec.autos:5997 misc.consumers:3163
>Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.consumers
>Path:
>sun1x!actcnews!psinntp!psinntp!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs
>.ohio-state.edu!csn!cherokee!joe
>From: joe@advtech.uswest.com ( Joe Thielen)
>Subject: Re: Warped brake discs on '91 Taurus L
>Message-ID: <1993Apr14.225821.13000@advtech.uswest.com>
>Sender: news@advtech.uswest.com (Radio Free Boulder)
>Nntp-Posting-Host: absoraka.advtech.uswest.com
>Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
>References: <1993Apr8.161136.8994@bcrka451.bnr.ca>
><Dmerrill-130493170436@47.140.3.216> <1993Apr14.132206.19001@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 22:58:21 GMT
>Lines: 23


>In article <1993Apr14.132206.19001@ryn.mro4.dec.com> balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com
>(Antonio L. Balsamo (Save the wails)) writes:
>>
>>From: Dmerrill@bnr.ca (Dana Merrill)
>>Subject: Re: Warped brake discs on '91 Taurus L
>>
>>   > Anyone else had the same problem ?
>>
>>       Well, I have an '92 Taurus GL.  Apparently they still haven't fixed the
>>   problem with the rotors.  I've got 26K miles on the clock and I'm getting
>>   the rotors (and pads) replaces tonight...at my expense of course.
>>
>>   Tony
>>--
>>

>I owned a Ford Mustang 4 that had endless brake problems.  The bad
>thing was that it had all other kinds of problems too.  Spent 2 months
>in the shop in the first 2 years I owned it (bought new).   So I got
>rid of it, and will more than likely not buy a Ford product in the
>future.  The thing that really ticked me off was how Ford treated me.
>They were such jerks it was unbelievable!

>-- Joe


In the past few years I have owned 3 Mustang GTs and now own a 91 T-Bird SC. 
They all have had this problem. There was a recall on the T-bird for the brake 
problem. The Ford dealer replaced the rotors and pads but the rotors warp 
after about 10K miles. Between this problem and the fit and finish problems on 
the T-Bird I'll never buy a Ford again.

     
Bruce S. Winters			BSW@utrc.utc.com
United Technologies Research Center 	E. Hartford Ct. USA 


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103457
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

jahonen@cc.lut.fi (Jarmo Ahonen) writes:

>kissane@black.Berkeley.EDU (John G. Kissane) writes:

>>As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US  
>>while here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....
>>-- 

>Many cars sold here in Finland are *small* and *cheap* cars (at least when
>compared to other cars --- note that we have over 120 % car tax).
>And you couldn't expect a good auto mated to a 1.3 L engine?
>Most of the bigger cars are, however, sold with autos.

Here in Australia most cars are manual (privately owned anyway).  Why?
Not sure, I think it has something to do with the fact that our car industry
in the past was more closely aligned with Europe than the US in the past.
Now it's aligned with Asia.

Scott.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103458
From: jgoss@gaia.torolab.ibm.com (Jeff Goss)
Subject: Re: Honda clutch chatter

In article <185900001@hpindda.cup.hp.com> jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) writes:


> From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 22:01:32 GMT
> Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
> Path: eclipse!yktnews.watson.ibm.com!hawnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!news.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!hplextra!hpcss01!hpindda!jimb
> Newsgroups: rec.autos
> Lines: 12
> 
> anyone else experiencing a similar problem?
> 
> This concerns the clutch on a 92 Honda Accord 5 speed. When the clutch
> is first used in the morning, about the first 4 miles of shifting, there
> is a significant amount of clutch chatter until things warm up.  Then the
> clutch shifts smoothly.  This chatter started when I moved to the San 
> Francisco Bay area from a low-humidity environment.  The dealer stated
> that this is known to happen since Honda changed from an asbestos to
> non-asbestos clutch material.  No remedy!! Seems that moisture on clutch
> surface causes slipping until the moisture evaporates.
> 
> Any comments out there?


I have been having problems with a slightly different clutch problem on
my 90 Prelude. See rec.autos.tech for more detail. My problem is a false
engagement point below the actual one. It also seems affected by weather -
it is most noticeable (and annoying) on damp or cold days. My dealer says
he can't reproduce the problem - I think I'll just sell the car.

Jeff Goss

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103459
From: glouie@oasys.dt.navy.mil (George Louie)
Subject: Re: Nissan Nomenclature (was Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted)

In rec.autos, grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas) writes:

>What we currently know as the 240sx, is known elsewhere as a 200sx.
>
>--
>Graham E. Thomas                  *  blah blah blah blah blah

This is kind of interesting.  I always assumed that the 240SX was named
because of the 2.4 liter engine which it uses.  Likewise for the 200SX
which uses a 2.0 liter engine.  Isn't this true?


George

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103460
From: Steven Ritter <sr0o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pennsylvania Insurance, Limited Tort Option

In my opinion, the limited tort option is the best thing Casey has ever
done. Basically, limited tort means that you give up your right to sue
for pain and suffering, unless one of the following conditions is met:
1. Your medical bills resulting from the accident exceed $X (where X is
some number like 50,000 -- I'm not sure of the exact number)

2. The accident was caused by a drunk driver (I mean, the OTHER driver
was drunk)

3. You get a good lawyer and have a good case (basically, you can appeal
to regain your right to sue, but there's almost no chance of this ever
happening).

You are only giving up your right to sue for pain and suffering; you can
still sue for medical costs, actual damages, etc. By agreeing to limited
tort, you are essentially giving up your right to be an asshole who
treats every accident as an entry into the litigation lottery. In
exchange, you get a substantial reduction in your rates. I save
$150/year.

Unfortunately, the insurance companies have managed to scare and confuse
people so much that only about 5% of Pennsylvanians go for limited tort.
I guess that's OK -- If more people opted for it, the insurance
companies would be pushing harder for repeal.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103461
From: "Daniel U. Holbrook" <dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?

The Bricklin was a car manufactured by a company started by Malcolm
Bricklin, who, I believe, was Canadian.  He was the first one to import
Subarus, and later was responsible for importing Yugos, I believe. 
Anyway, he had this idea that what would really sell would be a sports
car, but one incorporating a bunch of innovative safety features.  The
Bricklin was built to be that queerest of beasts, the safety sports car.
 If any of you remember the early 70s movement among car makers to
design "experimental" safety cars, you will recognize the general
appearance of the Bricklin - big 'ol bumpers, etc.  Anyone recall other
safety features?  The engine was an american v-8, Ford I think is right.

Personally, I kinda like the way they look, and if I remember from the
old magazine articles, the performance was only half-bad.  The choice of
colors, though, tended towards the 1970s lime green - yech - but highly
visible, I suppose.  

The Delorean, on the other hand, was a dog - nice looking (IMO) but no
motor at all.  
Dan
dh3q@andrew.cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University
Applied History


  "I have standards. If you don't like them, I have others." 
               Groucho


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103474
From: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Re: Honda clutch chatter

In article <185900001@hpindda.cup.hp.com>, jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) writes:
|> anyone else experiencing a similar problem?
|> 
|> This concerns the clutch on a 92 Honda Accord 5 speed. When the clutch
|> is first used in the morning, about the first 4 miles of shifting, there
|> is a significant amount of clutch chatter until things warm up.  Then the
|> clutch shifts smoothly.  This chatter started when I moved to the San 
|> Francisco Bay area from a low-humidity environment.  The dealer stated
|> that this is known to happen since Honda changed from an asbestos to
|> non-asbestos clutch material.  No remedy!! Seems that moisture on clutch
|> surface causes slipping until the moisture evaporates.
|> 
|> Any comments out there?

The clutch on my '92 Honda Civic EX-V (EX in the U.S.) does this too.
It's annoying.  Now that I think about, it _is_ worse when the humidity is
high.  The dealer also claims there's nothing they can do since the clutch is 
a "self-adjusting hydraulic design".  Yeah, right.

-- 
Doug Zolmer           Internet: dwjz@bnr.ca         Disclaimer: My opinions only
Bell-Northern Research Ltd.  Ottawa, Ontario, Canada         |
Dept. 7N61 - Service Control Point - Routing Services Design | Conform:- Moooo!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103475
From: klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <C5srIB.6AH@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
| In article <1993Apr19.145238.9561@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
| >anything if he hadn't emptied his gun into the asshole.  Texas--it's
| >whole other country.
| 
| That reminds me of one of Texas's ads...you hear a guy speaking in
| French (like it's a letter home), then the French moves to the 
| background, and a French-accented voice come to the foreground, talking
| about how he went walking on the beach, and it felt so much like
| home that he decided to take his shoes off...and the rest of his
| clothes. It ended with "please send bail." :-)
| 
| >On an rec.autos note, does anyone carry a gun on them or keep one in
| >their car (which is bad idea, isn't it?) if you work in a bad part of
| >town (or regularly go through one)?  Is this a loaded question?  :^)
| 
| I normally have an unloaded Colt Delta in my glove box with a loaded
| magazine handy (which is perfectly legal in Oklahoma). For those
| times that I'm travelling inter-state, I keep an unloaded 
| S&W .44 Magnum revolver in the glove box, with a speed-loader
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| in my pocket (which is legal everywhere, under Federal law, Illinois
| State Police be hanged).
| 
| As I've said before, this is stricly for defense; my insurance
| will pay to replace my car, but I only have one life...
| 
| 				James
| 

Carrying a pistol, loaded or unloaded, in the glove compartment, is
considered carrying a concealed weapon in Colorado and is illegal without
a concealed weapons permit.  Unless the law has been changed recently,
carrying a weapon openly is legal in Colorado but concealing it is illegal.
I read a newspaper account last year where police stopped a car on a
traffic infraction and observed a .357 magnum revolver sitting on the
seat.  The driver could not be cited for possessing or carrying the weapon
because it was not concealed.  The article stated that if the gun had
been discovered in the glove box, it would have been considered a crime.

--
Ken Franklin 	They say there's a heaven for people who wait
AMA     	And some say it's better but I say it ain't
GWRRA           I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
DoD #0126       The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103484
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: what is the deal with "blue-book" value of an auto?

newton@convex.com (Vicki Newton) writes:

>i am in the process of buying a new auto.  i haven't decided yet whether
>i should sell my current car myself or trade it in as part of the new
>auto purchase.

>i know that the "blue book" value for the car is $2825.  an acquaintence
>has offered to give me blue book value for the car.  i am just wondering
>if this is a standard measure for negotiating a resale price or if i
>can hope to get more money from someone else.  what exactly is blue book
>value based on?  i know that for its year (88) my car has low mileage
>(< 50,000).  it is in excellent working condition but does have a few
>dings on the exterior (nothing major).  do any of these facts alter the
>fair selling p[rice of the car?  i am not looking to rip anyone off, i
>just naturally want to get the best price for the car.

>thanks a million,
>veek

	I think the Blue Book is the NADA handbook for used car prices, no?
	Is the Blue Book value given the retail or wholesale value???  The 
	Blue Book value isn't set in stone, though.  Low milage, extra addons
	and stuff like that there can increase the resale price of the car, you
	may want to head on over to the local library or borrow your friends
	Blue Book and read up on that sort of stuff.  I paid ~$400 under BB
	(retail) for my '87 Civic in 1990, and it was in perfect condition and
	had only ~14.5K miles on it.  The guy was desparate to sell, new kid on
	the way, etc., but it was a good price.  Remeber, both you and the 
	buyer, if he has any sort of brains at all, are using the Blue Book, so
	you should pick a fair price.  


				Chintan Amin
				llama@uiuc.edu

-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103491
From: fowler@esmlsun.gatech.edu (c b fowler)
Subject: Re: what is the deal with "blue-book" value of an auto?

In article <1993Apr22.143709.13360@news.eng.convex.com> newton@convex.com (Vicki Newton) writes:

>i am in the process of buying a new auto.  i haven't decided yet whether
>i should sell my current car myself or trade it in as part of the new
>auto purchase.

>i know that the "blue book" value for the car is $2825.  an acquaintence
>has offered to give me blue book value for the car.  i am just wondering
>if this is a standard measure for negotiating a resale price or if i
>can hope to get more money from someone else.  what exactly is blue book
>value based on?  i know that for its year (88) my car has low mileage
>(< 50,000).  it is in excellent working condition but does have a few
>dings on the exterior (nothing major).  do any of these facts alter the
>fair selling p[rice of the car?  i am not looking to rip anyone off, i
>just naturally want to get the best price for the car.

>thanks a million,
>veek

A dealer will make money off you in three ways, if you let him:

	1)  New car markup over his cost (remember his hold-back),
	2)  Arranging financing through the dealership, and
	3)  Screwing you on the trade.

Keep the deal with the dealer simple by eliminating 2 & 3.  Buying a car at 
"dealer's cost" is meaningless if he makes $1000 on the trade and/or gets a 
kickback from the bank.

Blue book (you need to know if you're talking average wholesale or average 
retail) is a good guide to value for a car.  If you are selling it yourself, 
try to get average retail, and chances are you'll have done ok.

Be careful selling to acquaintances if you ever want them to become friends.

c. b. fowler  gtri/esml
chris.fowler@gtri.gatech.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103493
From: orscholz@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Oliver Scholz)
Subject: Pontiac option codes wanted

Does anyone have a listing of Pontiac's three-letter option codes and
what they mean?

Thanks.

-Oliver
---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oliver Scholz                                                         DG4NEM
Graduate Student of Computer Sciences at the University of Erlangen, Germany
"You're killing me, Peg!"  "Oh, shut up, Al, like I care..." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103494
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the VW Corrado VR6

In article <1993Apr22.052857.9758@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> jg003b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Outatime) writes:
>
>	I was curious as to what people thought of the VW Corrado VR6?
>That's about it...
>
>						Outatime ------>
it hauls butt, handles nice, but is junk.  i drove a brand new one for a day
as a loaner.  the key was already rusting...seems they stamp their keys out
of pot-metal.  all the controls seemed really junk...clutch was heavy.
door locks, power buttons, sunroof controls etc.  seemed really cheap.
no way i would pay 24k for this baby.  no airbag either.  i also drove a svx
for a day...stickered at 30k, but going out the door for 21k...a much better
buy, imo.  although it is more of a sports touring coupe...roomy etc.
the corrado is more of a small sports car.  the ergonomics and leather in the
svx was twice as nice as the corrado's.  both had smooth strong engines.
>



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103495
From: scheer@faw.uni-ulm.de ((T.M.))
Subject: MARTEN (PROBLEMS)


Hi everybody ...

Well I don't know if this is a known problem
to you in the big state but over here in Europe
it is in some places ...
It just happened to me and I payed A LOT to get my 
new Honda Civic repaired.
A marten choose my car to stay one night in and this
damn little animal damaged almost everything which
was plastic/rubber ..
I never thought that these little #@%##@ could do that
much damage.

So to ALL you car owners out there :

Is there a GOOD known method of gettin' rid of  this animal ???
except for waiting all night long beneath my car with a gun ???

HELP IN ANY FORM WOULD BE APPRECIATED VERY VERY MUCH !!!!



e-mail: scheer@faw.uni-ulm.de



Thanxxxx y'all
 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103496
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: geico annoyance

if you want to annoy geico, call them up...give fake name...but real car 
specs..get a quote and then tell them they are more expensive than your 
current state farm/allstate insurance.  they will still send you quote etc.
then you can tear up their quote and stuff it in the prepaid return 
envelope and mail it back to them.  actually they were $12 more than my current
state farm rates.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103497
From: blf@apollo.hp.com (Barry Frishberg)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?

From article <1993Apr21.190251.14371@sequent.com>, by troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker):
> 
> Earlier I commented on the Valentine-1 and jimf@centerline.com replied
> about the value of the units "bogey" counter.  I didn't really go into
> why I called this feature a gimmick so here is more explanation.  Thanks
> Jim for the good comments and opinion.
  .
  .
  .

> From what I understand the Valentine-1 can only tell if these
> microwaves are coming from the front, rear or both.  There are only
> two antennas.  If they are coming from both this in interpreted as a
> "side bogey".  Bogey counts are determined as sources by their
> relative strength to one another even if they are reflections of the
> same source.
  .
  .
  .

It sounds like your analysis is based on hypothesis and not
actually using the Valentine-1.  I'd like to give some feedback based on
real life experince.  I keep the Valentine-1 in advanced logic mode
and it rarely lights up as a Christmas tree.  The only time it does
is when I am in the middle of a major shopping area and then it makes
sense that is does since there are >= 8 sources coming from many different
directions.  I have found the Valentine-1 to be consistent in its
reporting of bogeys regardless of any moving cars in the area.

I have found the directional indication to be very useful.  In one case
there was two radar traps set up within one mile of each other.  As I
passed the first radar trap, the direction indication changed.  Then
the detector was set off again pointing in the forward direction.  With
other radar detectors I would have assumed that this was due to a reflection.
But with the Valentine-1 I knew there was a high probability that there
was another trap.  And there was!

On other occasions, the directional helped discern a false alarm from
a true alarm.  For example, as I pass a source, the direction indicator
changes.  The directional also allows me to focus my attention as to where
the signal might be coming from instead of having to look all over the 
place.  When a car is approaching me from the rear with a detector
that leaks, I can tell that the signal is coming from the rear and as the
car passes me I can verify the source.  With other detectors, I would
have been unable to do this and would have had to assume that there was a radar
trap when there was none.

I've had the Valentine-1 for several months now and find its added features
to be useful and not gimmicks.

                                       -Barry
-- 
-----                                                                   --------
Barry Frishberg                                             blf@apollo.ch.hp.com
Chelmsford-UK Expert Center                                      508/TN 436-4319
Chelmsford, MA                                                 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103498
From: "Jason M. Roth" <jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)


>Still its amazing in Germany you can have cars traveling 155 mph and 65
>mph  on the same 3 to 4 lane road.  Around Washington DC they can't
>keep traffic  flowing at 55.

Germans are just more organised; you can't blitz all of Europe in a
matter of , what, 9 months, unless you're pretty organised. If we tried
that, there'd just be a whole bunch of tanks backed up at the border,
waiting for some jerk in the right lane trying to get over to make a
left turn.

"This, of course, caused Germany to invade Belgium. One of the important
lessons of history is that anything, including late afternoon
thundershowers, will cause Germany to invade Belgium."
--Dave Barry

Happy Motoring!

JMR

'93 SL2, blue-green

"He's the most inventive asshole I've ever met; he really puts a lot of
energy into it....."

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103499
From: rmakarem@usc.edu (Total Stranger)
Subject: HELP with 89 Mitsubishi Galant GS Transmission

Hi,
I need your help with a problem I have with a 1989 Mitsubishi
Galant GS transmission.  The car has a 5 speed manual tranmission.
Since the car was bought new, while shifting from 2nd to 3rd,  unless 
I do it SLOWLY and carefully, it makes a "popping" or "hitting" sound.
The dealer and Mitsubishi customer service (reached by an 800 #) say 
this is NORMAL for the car.  IS IT?
And about a year ago, at 35Kmiles, the stick shift handle got STUCK
while attempting to put it in reverse:
   1- The shifter would not budge.  The clutch had no effect.
   2- The front tires would not budge, even when the clutch is
      fully depressed.
   3- If the clutch is released the engine would die.
   4- Assuming that some gear was engaged while the shifter was
      stuck, I could not make the car move.  It acted as if
      it were in Neutral(except for dying when clutch is released.)
   5- I finally was able to release the shifter by having 
      someone rock the car back and forth (less than an inch),
      while I depressed the clutch and jiggled the shifter.
   6- The shifter acted normally after that.

When this happened, I took it to the dealer, they checked the 
clutch, it was o.k. They checked the transmission, it was o.k.

I had the exact problem a couple of months ago, and again last
week.  The dealer says there is nothing they can do because 
Mitsubishi (the 800 #) says they have never heard of the
problem, and the dealer could not reproduce the problem while
they had the car.  
In all three occurances, the car was parked head first in a garage,
and since the front wheels were stuck, the car could not be towed
to the dealer before releasing the shifter (hence temporarily
solving the problem).  And the dealer, and Mitsubishi, refused to
send someone to check the car while it was stuck. 
I KNOW there is smething wrong with the transmission (shifting 
from 2nd to 3rd), and getting stuck at random, but I can't get 
the dealer to fix it. I need your help with the mechanical problems, 
and with how to handle Mitsubishi.  
All hints and suggestions are greatly appreciated, and sorry to
bore you with the long post.

Thanks,
Rabih.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103500
From: jafo@miranda.accum.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Subject: Re: Choice of gauges

In article <C5yBo4.E5I@vcd.hp.com> dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Gauge) writes:
>If you had free reign to design your own instrument cluster, which
>gauges would you choose to have beyond the basic set?

Turbo boost is necessary if a turboed car.
Fuel reserve warning.
Coolant level warning.

It would also be nice to have a gauge that would cycle across the different
sensors in the FI system such as O2 sensor, altitude, Air Flow...

I'd love to get Tranny and diff.
Brake temp would be great...

And a BIG ASS tach.  :)

Sean
-- 
From the labs of Balderrama, Mitchell, Reifschneider, and Wahlstedt, Inc.
Sean Reifschneider, Ruler of the Realm
jafo@accum.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103501
From: gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan)
Subject: Drag Coefficients

Could someone explain how to make sense of drag coefficients (i.e Cd) mentioned in magazines.  I understand that lower numbers signify better aerodynamics but
what does this mean in the real world.  Is there a way to calculate new top speeds(assuming the car is not rev limited at top speed) or mileage benefits if a identical car had the Cd reduced from .34 to .33.

Thanx

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103502
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Alarm systems: are they worthwhile?

Talking about car alarms, there are certain cars in this country that are 
only insurable if they are fitted with a Vecta alarm. We're talking Coswoths
and Porsches and stuff. Just before they (the insurance companies) decided to 
make this move, they insisted that the car be fitted with a Scorpion alarm (
now they've changed to the Vecta)... so everyone who's spent $$$ on fitting 
the Scorpion alarm have founbd themselves having to upgrade to the Vecta system.

Sad huh? :-(					...Shaz...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103503
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: comparing saabs & bmw's

I dont know about Saabs but whenever there is a 'long temr tset' in a magazine
they always say that tehy're are little annoying niggles which keep on occuring
every so often... I wouldn't expect that from such a 'quality' car.... why 
doesn't anything like this ever happen on BMWs? Maybe coz they're 'quality'
cars ;-) 

<shrugs (repentently!) >  			....Shaz....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103504
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti                             

Yeah... and BMW 525e has 2.7 litres
		535      3.4 

BTW - can someone out there please tell me how to put someone else's file 
on and then reply to that so the other person's file and my own 'reply' go
to the newgroups together? (ps: just mail me personally) 

Thanx in advance.... 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103505
From: chuck.lampman@gstrf.gatech.edu (Chuck Lampman)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

Enough, already. Let's take this discussion to some other newsgroup
that's more appropriate. Most of us are tired of it and would like to 
get back to old cars, IMHO.

Chuck Lampman (chuck.lampman@gstrf.gatech.edu)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103506
From: mcculloc@sps204.lds.loral.com (Thad McCulloch)
Subject: Re: Autos dealer

In article <1993Apr22.143529.20494@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> tvl@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (lam,thanh) writes:
>I got a price quote of $18,875.00 for a Camry V6 w/ABS from a Toyota dealer in 
>Eatontown. I came back to that dealer in two weeks to sign a purchase agreement.
>Then I was told that the salesperson made an error in pricing. I walked out of 
>that dealer. I wonder if this kind of practice is common with Toyota dealers ?
>Is the price quote written on the salesperson's business card binding?
>I would appricate any comments.


I had a similar experience.  We had a written quote which had been mailed
to us from the salesman at one of these "no-haggle" Toyota dealers for
a Camry XLE w/ABS, leather, etc.  The price seemed fair, but when we
went in to take them up on their offer, they "discovered" that certain
extra cost items hadn't been included in their original written quote.
It would have totaled an extra $1100 and, in spite of the fact that we
had a written quote, they said there was nothing they could do.

Bottom line, quotes from salemen are worthless and it appears to me that
the Toyota dealers think they've got such a superior auto that they
don't have to deal.  We walked, went out and bought a new LH car
(Eagle Vision TSI) and I don't regret it one bit!

--
Thad McCulloch
mcculloc@mail.lds.loral.com


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103507
From: guo@acuson.com (Xiaocong Guo)
Subject: Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:

>My wife and I looked at, and drove one last fall. This was a 1992 model.
>It was WAYYYYYYYYY underpowered. I could not imagine driving it in the
>mountains here in Colorado at anything approaching highway speeds. I
>have read that the new 1993 models have a newer, improved hp engine. 

>I'm quite serious that I laughed in the salesman face when he said "once
>it's broken in it will feel more powerful". I had been used to driving a
>Jeep 4.0L 190hp engine. I believe the 92's Land Cruisers (Land Yachts)
>were 3.0L, the sames as the 4Runner, which is also underpowered (in my
>own personal opinion). 

>They are big cars, very roomy, but nothing spectacular.


>( ___ )-----------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
> | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email: tvervaek@cs.itc.hp.com        | \ |
> | / | Hewlett Packard Co.    Phone: 719-590-2133                  | \ |
> | / |                                                             | \ |
> |___|          I love animals. They taste delicious.              |___|
>(_____)-----------------------------------------------------------(_____)

The Land Cruiser has a L6 4.5 engine which has 200 hp and 280 torgue, when I 
drove it here in california, power is more than enough. The high price is 
the only reason I did not buy it.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103508
From: nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?

hhd0@harvey.gte.com (Horace Dediu) writes:

>In article <nataraja.735341980@opal12>, nataraja@rtsg.mot.com (Kumaravel Natarajan) writes:
>|> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
>|> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
>|> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).
>|> 
>|> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
>|> something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
>|> diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
>|> install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
>|> of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
>|> different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
>|> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
>|> gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...

>This really bugs me.  The emissions of diesels are the cleanest of any vechicle,
>but they are considered so polluting that they are banned in passenger cars
>in California.  What a bunch of crap.  Diesel is the fuel of choice for 
>enviromental benefit in Europe while here it's illegal for the same reason.
>
>The particulates are nothing but carbon.  They are just an annoyance at worst.
>Nothing beats the diesel cycle for efficiency and emissions, torque or engine
>durability.  It's also cheaper.

Just to clear things up (as to why I posted the question that way)...
I was debating with a co-worker about diesels.  I claimed they were
cleaner-burning than gas engines.  He said the extra "junk" put out by them
was offset by the savings in greenhouse gasses.   I made all the SAME claims
you did.  But, one question of his was what about the carbon?  I said it
was harmless, but he wanted to know how to get rid of it.  I suggested
scrubbers.  (I figured it would be no harder or more expensive to install
than "cats".)  Does there exist any designs for a scrubber?  (I'd like
to know just to answer his final question.)  I convinced him that diesels
are cleaner otherwise.

BTW, (I named my subject "Dirty Diesels" because I knew it would get a reaction
out of people who knew they were cleaner than gas engines and that they'd
read it...)
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Vel Natarajan  nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  Motorola Cellular, Arlington Hts IL  --
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103509
From: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

Remove LEGEND from the V-8 list, it's a 6.
-- 
Steve Morris, M.A.    : Internet: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu
Addiction Studies Pgm : uucp    :{uw-beaver,uunet!gtenmc!dataio}!sumax!smorris
Seattle University    : Phone   : (206) 296-5350 (dept) or 296-5351 (direct)
Seattle, WA 98122_____:________________________________________________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103510
From: johnk@opel.secondsource.COM (John Kennedy)
Subject: Diatribe on US-sold Opels (was Re: Opel owners?)

>gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons) writes:
>
>I'm looking for information on Opel cars.  Now you ask, which model?
>Well, the sad truth is, I'm not entirely sure, but it's a two-seater,
>with roll-over headlights, hard top, and really sporty looking.  My
>friend has one sitting in his yard in really nice condition,
>body-wise, but he transmission has seized up on him, so it hasn't run
>for a while.  Does anyone have any info on these cars?  The engine
>compartment looks really tight to work on, but it is in fine shape and
>I am quite interested in it.

That would be the Opel GT, sold in this country from '69 to '73.  It originally
had a 1100 cc engine, which was later replaced by the 1900 cc.  It was based
on the old Kadett drive train and suspension, with leaf springs in the rear
and a single transverse leaf spring in the front.  It looked good, but was
limited as a performer.

There has also been some discussion in this thread about the Manta and other
models.  In 1971 Opel introduced a new line of models, the 1900 series, that
were also known as model numbers 51, 57, etc.  These cars had the newer
1900cc engine and were available as two and four-door coupes, a station wagon,
and a "sport coupe", known in Europe as the Manta.  At the same time, there
were two 30-series cars, which sold very few numbers, that also had the 1900
engine but the Kadett suspension.  The sport coupe, (model 57) was also
available as the Rallye, (57R), with a blacked out hood, tach, and fog lights,
but was mechanically the same except for a numerically higher rear end ratio.

In 1973 the sport coupe was also named the Manta in the US.  1973 was the last
year for the GT in any country, both because of the US bumper height regulations
and the fact that FIAT exercised an option on the factory that Opel was leasing
to build the GTs.

The 1900 series continued in 1974 with minor body differences.  In 1975, the
Manta, 1900 sedan (also called the Ascona) and the wagon were available with
Bosch electronic fuel injection.  These cars also had larger brakes and
wider wheels.  These cars were starting to compete with the 1975 Buick Century
low price leader of the time, and were the last Opels imported into the US.

From 1976 to 1979, cars that sported Buick/Opel badges were still sold by
the Buick dealers, but were rebadged Isuzu I-marks.  The idea was to call them
Opels instead of changing the dealers' neon signs.

Various models of the 50-series cars dominated the Showroom Stock racing of the
70's in their class, and were known as serious 2002-competition.

Parts are still available from a number of sources.

(I still have a '73 manta and two '75 sedans and all the trick parts I could
collect in 20 years).
-- 
John Kennedy                     uunet!opel!johnk
Second Source, Inc.              johnk@secondsource.COM 
Annapolis, MD

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103511
From: dan@dyndata.uucp (Dan Everhart)
Subject: Honda Headrest Stuck!  Advice Please!

An aquaintence has a 87 Accord.  The driver's side headrest was
accidentally put in backwards and has jammed.  According to the
dealer, the only way to get it out is to spend several hours
disassembling the seat.  This is the second time I have heard of this
happening, and I wonder whether there's an easier way to get the
headrest back out.  Has anyone else ever dealt with this problem?
Your advice would be appreciated!

Please email, and I will summarize if there is interest.

--
   _                                         dan@dyndata.com
  / \_   Dan Everhart                        uunet!{camco,fluke}!dyndata!dan
  \_/ \____________________________          206-743-6982, 742-8604 (fax)
  / \_/                                      7107 179th St SW
  \_/    Dynamic Data & Electronics          Edmonds, WA 98026, USA 

"Rhe rone rike, rhe rone rike... rhorane" -- Astro sings "Cocaine"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103512
From: chmilar@apple.com (Michael Chmilar)
Subject: Re: MBenz 300 series, VW Passat

jcorry@erasure_sl.cc.emory.edu (Jeremy Corry) writes:

>new 300 series Mercedes Benz wagon...
>Particularly, I would like to hear about power (manual t. only)...
>Any comparisons between the Saab 9000 line and the Mercedes would be helpful.

If a manual transmission is a "must have", then the M-B 300TE is not in
the running.  You cannot get a manual transmission in that car in North
America.  It seems that buyers here (or, maybe more accurately, the
distributors) are not interested in manual trannies.

The '93 300 line comes with a 217 hp engine.  All earlier years are 177 hp.
I have an '87 300E, with a "mere" 177 hp and auto tranny, and I find that
it has sufficient power for any normal driving situation.  More is always
nice, but I can't complain.

I test drove a Saab 900 CSE last fall.  Here are my impressions:

1) Awesome power, especially over 3500rpm, when the turbo really comes on.
2) If you get on the power really hard in a tight corner, the front-wheel
   drive causes it to understeer heavily, and then viciously "hook" into
   the corner.  Not a desirable handling trait, but common in powerful
   front drive cars.  (The CSE is 200hp.  Mercedes is rear-drive, so it
   does not have this problem.)
3) Huge interior and cargo space.
4) The most "rubbery" shifter I have ever encountered.  I drove a 5spd.  It
   was absolutely numb.  You might be able to get used to it - I don't know.
   I also didn't like its location, which was too far down, and too far right.
   From the shifter's position, I got the impression that Saab really designed
   the car for an automatic.
5) It was rather noisy:  Engine buzz, rattles, and creaks.  (Mercedes does
   not exhibit these characteristics.)

You should also check out the new BMW 525 "touring".  This is a wagon version
of the 525i.  It fits into the class with the 300TE and Saabs.

--
Michael Chmilar
chmilar@apple.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103513
From: alan@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Alan S. Mazer)
Subject: Re: what is the deal with "blue-book" value of an auto?

Mail bounced, so...

In article <1993Apr22.143709.13360@news.eng.convex.com> you write:
>i am in the process of buying a new auto.  i haven't decided yet whether
>i should sell my current car myself or trade it in as part of the new
>auto purchase.

Traditional wisdom says you are almost certainly better off selling it 
yourself if you don't mind that extra hassle.  Having a trade-in on a purchase
just makes getting the best price from a dealership more confusing.

>i know that the "blue book" value for the car is $2825.

I assume this is _retail_ bluebook.  There are two bluebook prices, one for
retail and one for wholesale.  You really want the retail price if you can 
get it.  The blue books also have adjustments you can make for low mileage
and extras on your particular car.  You should look all this stuff up yourself.
Also keep in mind that the blue book prices are averages over the country
that may not apply in your area.  For example, blue book prices are low for
California.  A better way of finding out how much your car might be worth is
to call around and see what it's selling for (if any used lots have one) or
looking in local papers for similar cars and checking out the prices.  It 
might be more time efficient to take a small loss (rather than hold out for
6 months for the best price).

>an acquaintence
>has offered to give me blue book value for the car.

I don't know what you mean by "an acquaintance" but I would make darn sure
that I was paid, that is, cashier's check in full before delivery.  There's
a real temptation when selling to a pseudo-friend to be more accomodating
than you should.  Make sure you get the money and if they hedge about paying
in full at the start (with a cashier's check or cash) then I would go
elsewhere.  Rememeber that you can probably sell your car to a used car lot
or wholesaler and get wholesale bluebook.  That's probably a safer approach
than selling to a private party.
-- 
 
-- Alan                        # Mountain Dew and doughnuts...
   ..!ames!elroy!alan          # because breakfast is the most important meal
   alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov     # of the day.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103514
From: hhtra@usho0b.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

In article <66758@mimsy.umd.edu>, davew@cs.umd.edu (David G. Wonnacott) writes:
|> I'm considering switching to Geico insurance, but have heard that
|> they do not assign a specific agent for each policy or claim.  I was
|> worried that this might be a real pain when you make a claim.  I have
|> also heard that they try to get rid of you if you have an accident.
|> 
|> I'm interestend in determining whether or not these things are true.
|> Has anyone out there with Geico made a claim?  I'd be interested in
|> hearing whether or not you were satisfied with the service and whether
|> you then had trouble renewing your policy.
|> 
|> I'm also interested in any good or bad stories about Liberty Mutual or
|> State Farm.


 Stay away from GEICO.

 A recent CAR & DRIVER issue has an article about GEICO giving free
 laser guns to police departments to increase they're speed limit
 enforcement.  The article also said that if you get a speeding ticket
 your premium will increase dramatically based on how much "over the
 limit" you were.  If I remember correctly, at "more than 20 over",
 you'll get something like a 65% increase. 

 If you have a radar detector, you will be denied coverage or dropped
 immediately. 

 One accident claim and you will be dropped.
 After many years with GEICO, my father who had 0 tickets and had made
 0 claims, had an accident and filed an $800 claim.  He was dropped 
 immediately.  Since then he has been with State Farm for years with
 no complaints.

 I have been with State Farm for about 20 years - no complaints.


 TRAVIS

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103515
From: yavo@sdosrv2.gvl.unisys.com (Steve Yavorski)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

In article <C5yDwp.6G0@ncube.com> bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
>
>Curiously (and consider these are test
>vehicles), I found the Mercury higher
>in build quality than the Nissan.
>
This is very curious being that they are both built by Mercury in the
very same factory.

Steve

Stephen Yavorski			internet - yavo@ivy.paramax.com
NEXRAD Integration			phone    - (215) 443 - 7500
Paramax Systems Corporation
Ivyland, Pennsylvania

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103516
From: petebre@elof.iit.edu (Brent A. Peterson)
Subject: Re: Drag Coefficients

In article <1993Apr22.165444.11830@wdl.loral.com> gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) writes:
>Could someone explain how to make sense of drag coefficients (i.e Cd) mentioned in magazines.  I understand that lower numbers signify better aerodynamics but
>what does this mean in the real world.  Is there a way to calculate new top speeds(assuming the car is not rev limited at top speed) or mileage benefits if a identical car had the Cd reduced from .34 to .33.
>

    I don't remember the formula's off hand as it has been awhile since
I took aerodynamics and haven't used the stuff since. 
The Cd is related to the drag force which is what effects top speed and
fuel consumption. When the drag force on the car or aircraft is greater
than what the vehicle's engine can overcome it has reached its top speed.
(autos of course also have to overcome rolling resistance)
Since drag opposes the vehicle's motion, the engine must make up for that
by burning more fuel. Anyway, since the geometery of an auto is rather
complex, the Drag,pressure coeffiecent,etc is either found experimentaly, or
using a numerical method.

anyway for flow around a cylinder the drag coeff is:

            Cd = d/(q*2R)

       where d is the drag force, q the flow velocity and R is the radius
of the clyinder.
   To get a rough (very rough) estimate, you can set R at 1/2 the car's
width, q at the car's speed and knowing the Cd, find the drag force that
the car would need to overcome. 


     -Bp

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103517
From: chellis@nyx.cs.du.edu (charles ellis)
Subject: Re: what is the deal with "blue-book" value of an auto?

It's a toll for insurance companies and auto dealers to rip you
off in case of accident or trade-in.

Charlie Ellis
chellis@nyx.cs.du.edu
--
Charlie Ellis
chellis@nyx.cs.du.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103518
Subject: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO
From: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 


GK>Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse.  The shifter
GK>refuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to
GK>get it into gear.  I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple
GK>of months.

Enter 1st, wait 2-3 seconds and then go into reverse.  They use the same
synchros, and you'll never (at least I haven't) ground-em-to-fit when using
this technique.
                                                                                 
----
The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us)   A PCBoard 14.5a system
Houston, Texas, USA   +1.713.466.1525          running uuPCB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103519
Subject: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO
From: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 


GK>I hear that tires for this car can get really expensive.  I
GK>currently have Goodyear GT+4s that cost the previous owner $500
GK>for four.

Try Eagle GAs, wear better, cost less, lose little handling, and are
quieter.  I'm going to switch to 225s in my next set, with new rims
(Fitti Twists) if I can afford 'em by the time my GAs wear out.

GK>is a whole new ritual for me with that fangled pedal!  Also, I began
GK>to wonder how strong that brake really is.  (Today, I backed out of
GK>parking spot today and started to drive away before I noticed
GK>the glowing brake light.  Oops.)

Mine is strong enough to not let the car move when it's in, even if you're
giving it enough gas to normally move it in 1st.  You might need a brake
adjustment.

GK>The driver's power window creaks when closed all the way.  The same
GK>thing happens in my parents 1989 Mercury Sable.  Oddly, all the
GK>other windows work smoothly.

Watch it closely, the glass actually flexes from the torque in the motor, it
seems stronger in the drivers window then the others.

GK>I'm liking the interior amenities more and more each day.  The
GK>cupholders are great.

I've found the location (under the armrest in between the seats) to be a
pain, but like having them.  They moved it into the dash (pop out) in the
'91 model year, MUCH better.

GK>I really feel like I don't deserve this car.  I really can't
GK>believe that I could afford it.  I got this car ten years
GK>ahead of schedule.  :-)

I did the same thing.  Got a black '89 with 65.5k miles on it for $8k
in July '92.

GK>I've put together the responses to my questions about the cars, as
GK>well as other posts with useful information on these cars.  I'll be
GK>posting this in the form of a FAQ soon.

Grabbed it and archived it.  Thanks!

GK>If anyone is interested in starting a mailing list, please speak up!
GK>I don't know if I have the resources here at Purdue to start one, but
GK>maybe someone out there does.

I'll be starting one this summer, one way or the other (current software
I use dosen't support mailing lists, but is on the RSN list - if not, I'm
going to upgrade to another package that DOES have it), that is, if nobody
else beats me to it.  Will make an announcement here when it goes up.
          
----
The Cutting Edge BBS (cutting.hou.tx.us)   A PCBoard 14.5a system
Houston, Texas, USA   +1.713.466.1525          running uuPCB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103520
From: RZAA80@email.sps.mot.com (Jim Chott)
Subject: Re: Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

In article <2820016@iftccu.ca.boeing.com>, hovnania@iftccu.ca.boeing.com
(Paul Hovnanian) wrote:
> 
> Based on my experience with a '79 FJ40 ( the hard-top jeep-style model ) I 
> would definitely give a new model consideration if I were in the market. The
> older models are VERY well built. Unless Toyota lost its mind, I would
> assume, until  proven otherwise, that the newer models have inherited some
> if not all of the qualities of their ancestors.
> 
> Two major differences in the running gear (that I'm aware of) need study.
> My '79 has a solid front axle housing whereas the newer models have
> independant front suspension. The solid axle is theoretically stronger and


The new Cruisers DO NOT have independent suspension in the front.  They
still
run a straight axle, but with coils.  The 4Runner is the one with
independent
front.  The Cruisers have incredible wheel travel with this system. 

> more reliable than the newer model, but only experience will tell. The
> independant front suspension is, no doubt, a compromise made to satisfy
> the typical user, who will never need a real utility vehicle. The second
> difference is the type of transfer case used on the newer models. I'm
> not sure, but I think Tioyota went to a full-time 4WD or all-wheel drive
> system. The older Landcruisers have a "lock-up" type. Both have their
> advantages and disadvantages.
> 
The 91-up Cruiser does have full time 4WD, but the center diff locks in
low range.  My brother has a 91 and is an incredibly sturdy vehicle which
has done all the 4+ trails in Moab without a tow.  The 93 and later is even
better with the bigger engine and locking diffs.


Jim Chott                            85 Toyota 4WD pickup
rzaa80@email.sps.mot.com             72 LeMans Sport Convertible
Tempe, Arizona

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103521
From: RZAA80@email.sps.mot.com (Jim Chott)
Subject: Re: Toyota Land Cruiser worth it?

In article <1r3sbbINN8e0@hp-col.col.hp.com>, tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom
Vervaeke) wrote:
> 
> My wife and I looked at, and drove one last fall. This was a 1992 model.
> It was WAYYYYYYYYY underpowered. I could not imagine driving it in the
> mountains here in Colorado at anything approaching highway speeds. I
> have read that the new 1993 models have a newer, improved hp engine. 
> 
> I'm quite serious that I laughed in the salesman face when he said "once
> it's broken in it will feel more powerful". I had been used to driving a
> Jeep 4.0L 190hp engine. I believe the 92's Land Cruisers (Land Yachts)
> were 3.0L, the sames as the 4Runner, which is also underpowered (in my

The 91 and 92 Cruisers run the 4.0L straight 6 which only has about 150hp 
and 220lb-ft of torque.  Plenty off-highway, marginal on the highway.
The 93 has a much improved 4.2L straight 6 with >200hp and 275ft-lb torque.

> They are big cars, very roomy, but nothing spectacular.

If you take them on rough trails, you'll see the difference.  The Cruiser
is an order of magnitude better in off-highway ability.

Jim Chott                            85 Toyota 4WD pickup
rzaa80@email.sps.mot.com             72 LeMans Sport Convertible
Tempe, Arizona

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103522
From: kinter@girtab.usc.edu (Fireball)
Subject: Any opinions on early 80's Toronado??



	Having had my car die on me(engine fire, insurance agent said
it was probably totaled), I am in the market for a another vehicle.
I saw a Toronado that was within my expected price range and was
wondering if anybody could relate their experiences with me.

Namely:  1.  Does it have accceptable power(it has a 305 in it)?
	 2.  Does its being front wheel drive make maintenance difficult?
	 3.  One power window and the power seat do not work, are these
		expensive items to replace if I do the work myself?
	 4.  How long do the engines usually last( 90M+ now)?
	 5.  Any other experiences good or bad, and opinions.

Thanks
Ryan Kinter
kinter@scf.usc.edu






Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103523
From: rogerh@Autodesk.COM (Roger Hupfauer)
Subject: Re: Too fast

dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
> In article <1qh61m$b6l@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
> >
> >If the Mustang and/or SHO platform were designed for 130mph, it would
> >come with better seatbelts, more supportive seats, a stronger
> >passenger compartment cage, better brakes, a stiffer suspension,
> >different tires, and a body design that takes advantage of aero
> >effects to keep the car on the ground.
> 
> In other words, it'd be a 1993 RX7.





Yeah, and then we'd pay $30,000.  Go with a 5.0 LX Mustang.  Most bang for your 
buck.








Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103524
From: rogerh@Autodesk.COM (Roger Hupfauer)
Subject: '87 Grand National

Does anyone have one of these that would care to share
some information on?  I concerned about the turbo.  
How reliable is it?  How's the gas milage.

Please responde to me, not here.

Thank you.

Roger

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103525
From: dholt@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Dennis J. Holt)
Subject: Re: Honda clutch chatter

In article <1993Apr22.141927.15716@bnr.ca> dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) writes:
>In article <185900001@hpindda.cup.hp.com>, jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder) writes:
>|> anyone else experiencing a similar problem?
>|> 
>|> This concerns the clutch on a 92 Honda Accord 5 speed. When the clutch
>|> is first used in the morning, about the first 4 miles of shifting, there
>|> is a significant amount of clutch chatter until things warm up.  Then the
>|> clutch shifts smoothly.  This chatter started when I moved to the San 
>|> Francisco Bay area from a low-humidity environment.  The dealer stated
>|> that this is known to happen since Honda changed from an asbestos to
>|> non-asbestos clutch material.  No remedy!! Seems that moisture on clutch
>|> surface causes slipping until the moisture evaporates.
>|> 
>|> Any comments out there?
>
>The clutch on my '92 Honda Civic EX-V (EX in the U.S.) does this too.
>It's annoying.  Now that I think about, it _is_ worse when the humidity is
>high.  The dealer also claims there's nothing they can do since the clutch is 
>a "self-adjusting hydraulic design".  Yeah, right.
>

One of the reasons I sold my '92 Civic VX was the chattery-grabby clutch
although I din't notice it being any worse in humid weather, perhaps because
its always humid around here.  I was told by Honda that it has to do with
changing from asbestos to non-asbestos linings, which began around 1990.
Someone could make some good money selling the old-fashion variety if it's
legal to manufacture them these days.  My feeling is that since many other
car makers do not have this problem, that it's a poor design or engineering
problem on the part of Honda.  Three things to look out for on all Honda
products - clutch chatter, bad brake rotors, and rusty exhaust systems.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103526
From: stafford@lobby.ti.com (Ron Stafford)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr22.093956@is.morgan.com> sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff) writes:
>From: sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff)
>Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...
>Keywords: BRICK, TRUCK, DANGER
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1993 13:39:56 GMT
>In article <1993Apr20.223113.21666@voodoo.ca.boeing.com>, tomm@hank.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey) writes:
>|> In article <C5JoIt.E31@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> neil@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Neil Williams) writes:
>|> >a reformatory for juviniles a few blocks away. They caught the 14 year old
>|> >that did it. They put a cover over the overpass, what else could they do?
>|> 
>|> Execute the juvi on the grounds of the reformatory, required attendendence
>|> by the rest of the inmates, as soon as possible after the incident and a
>|> quick sure trial.  I am quite serious.  Cause and effect.  Nothing else
>|> will ever make a dent.
>
>This will not work. Hitler-youth, Newark teenager car stealing epidemics ,
>student riots and other similar cases show that death  is not a 
>behaviour-shaping or even intimidating factor for teenagers.  
>Teens defy death.

I is a strong deterent to the teens that are executed.  They won't do that
again!  This policy cuts way down on repeat offenders.

Please do not flame me - I don't agree with capital punishment for teen's.


>
>As far as rock throwing is concerned : well, it is very sad and tragic.
>Most of these incidents stem from the fact that these kids are DUMB,
>even smarter ones  completely lack deductive thinking and can't foresee 
>the consequences of their actions  beyond immediate ones.
>Unfortunately, dumbness and cars whizzing at 80 mph make an explosive
>mix.

They are also unsupervised.  With proper supervision, they would not be
throwing rocks.  If parents cannot provide the minimal supervision needed
to stop this activity, they should not be allowed to have children :-)

Notice the smiley ;-) 


>However, I hardly believe there was intent to kill in most of these cases,
>rather desire to see the shattering glass (I admit I was mercilessly 
>attacking Moscow busses with a slingshot in my tender years), akin to
>a child breaking toys. I witnessed several even more endeavouring
>projects : like stacking up bricks on a railroad track. Technical
>details of such a venture completely dominate the possibility of
>a human tradegy (heck, when you are 10, you have a vague concept of
>human tradegy) in a mind of a youngster. I'm quite sure that technical
>challenge of matching and predicting speed of a thrown stone so that it
>gets the car smack in the windshield completely  occupies the teen,
>not leaving much room for other considerations.
>
>
>Sergei
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------
Ron Stafford              TEXAS INSTRUMENTS INCORPORATED
(214) 917-2050            P.O.Box 655012, MS 3620
STAFFORD@LOBBY.TI.COM     Dallas, Texas 75265-3620

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103527
From: ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?s?


In a previous article, smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) says:

>In article <C5v6MD.Kyp@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, mliggett@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (matthew liggett) writes:
>
>>>>V16 - must be one somewhere.
>
>>>Believe Bugatti's coming(has) out  one.  Something like 4 turbos
>>>and mucho macho HP.  One cool price too, as i heard.  At any rate,
>>>the point is, i'm pretty sure there is, indeed, one in production...
>>>tho rather limited..
>
>>This is _NO_ Bugatti.  It's labeled a Bugatti but has nothing to do with 
>>the Bugatti's of yore, from what I understand.  Just some ppl wanting to
>>build a silly supercar and use that name to sell it.
>
>Drew may be thinking of the Cizeta Morodor v16t, but that hasn't reached
>production, at least not yet.  As for the Bugatti, well, I have to agree
>with Matt, it ain't the top dog, it ain't sexy and svelt-looking, and it
>ain't a real Bugatti.  In fact, it looks like it's in tight competition
>with the Consulier for the most butt-ugly car of the decade award.

It isn't that bad.  At least the Bugatti EB110 has compound curves compared
to the slab sides on the Consulier.  And the Bugatti has a quad turbo V-12
(thing of it as 4 three cylinder turbo engines tied together).  Also Ettore
Bugatti's nephew is on the board of directors and had a hand in the
development.  So that's about as much Bugatti as you are likely to get in
today's world.  Much like Enzo Ferrari's illegitamate son being allowed to
take over part of Ferrari as well... 

>I don't know of any cars with v4, but there are a number of motorcycles
>with them - but I couldn't tell you which ones, all motorcycles look alike
>to me.   :D

That's funny.  I have motorcylclist friends who say the same about `cages'. 
:-)

Most GP 500cc motorcycles are V-4s, and the VF line of Hondas were all V-4s
(from the VF-400F through the VF-1000F, including the RC30 race bike and
the present VFR-750F).  It should be noted that Lancia built a V-4 in
recent history in the Fulvia HF, a very pretty Italian coupe. 

-- 
Al Bowers  DOD #900  Alfa  Ducati  Hobie  Kottke  'blad  Iaido  NASA
"Well goodness sakes...don't you know that girls can't play guitar?"
                                             -Mary Chapin-Carpenter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103528
From: ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi")
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?

nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  writes:
> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).
> 
> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
> something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
> diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
> install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
> of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
> different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
> gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...
> 

VW and Mercedes have tinkered with particulate traps.  Also, VW
uses a kind of turbocharger on their Jetta ECOdiesel that helps
reduce particulates as well, although I don't know the
mechanics of it.

Many diesel cars,busses, and trucks in Europe are now being
equipped with catalysts and traps in an effort to clean up
diesel emissions, already well below legal limits anyway.

It's a shame GM had to soil the diesel's reputation in
passenger cars and prevent further resource devotion to
research into making this outstandingly efficient engine even
further ahead of gas engines in emissions.

erik

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103529
From: born@scepter.ibm.com (Christopher J. Born)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

In <93115.132320ICJPS@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICJPS@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:

>My Nissan Quest has been doing 20mpg city, though its first few tanks
>were more like 17mpg.  The V6 and AT are remarkably smooth.
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Agreed!  I own a Mercury Villager and I'm very impressed with the V6 and
the AT.  In the past, I've been biased towards manual/standard transmissions(I owned
an Aerostar with a 5-speed, it was awesome!), but settled with the AT in the
Villager and have been pleasantly surprised with it's performance.
 
BTW, Consumers Report in their report on the Villager, alluded to some
funny noises from the AT, I've been listening for them but haven't noticed anything
unusual.
 
-Chris


Christopher J. Born

born@ralvms.vnet.ibm.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103530
From: ak954@yfn.ysu.edu (Albion H. Bowers)
Subject: Re: Drag CoefficientsVx?s?


In a previous article, gwm@spl1.spl.loral.com (Gary W. Mahan) says:

>Could someone explain how to make sense of drag coefficients (i.e Cd) mentioned in magazines.  I understand that lower numbers signify better aerodynamics but
>what does this mean in the real world.  Is there a way to calculate new top speeds(assuming the car is not rev limited at top speed) or mileage benefits if a identical car had the Cd reduced from .34 to .33.

It's pretty complex, and Cd isn't the whole story either.  Cd for cars is
usually calculated based on the frontal area of the car.  So a large car
with a good Cd could get the same drag force as a smaller car with a
poorer Cd. 

To calculate drag use this formula:

D = 1/2 * rho * v^2 * Cd * S

Where D is the drag force (lbs), rho is the local air density (slugs/ft^3),
V is the velocity (ft/s), and S is the frontal area (ft^2).  Note that the
pieces called 1/2 * rho * v^2 are sometimes called qbar or dynamic pressure
(a fancy aero term for air pressure or force). 

Note that power is:

P = F * v

Where P is power (lbf-ft/s), F is the force, drag in this case (lbf) and v
is velocity (ft/s). 

Note that if you put the whole equation into one (by substituting D for
force) you get a velocity _cubed_ term.  That's why huge increases in power
result in little increases in speed.  Ditto for decreases in Cd. 

So if you have a 100 mph car and reduce Cd from .34 to .33, your new top
speed is:  (sound of trumpet fanfare)

101 mph

Sorry to dissappoint.


-- 
Al Bowers  DOD #900  Alfa  Ducati  Hobie  Kottke  'blad  Iaido  NASA
"Well goodness sakes...don't you know that girls can't play guitar?"
                                             -Mary Chapin-Carpenter

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103531
From: Tim Nagy <tn2c+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: REe; MGB questions

The whire wheels aren't chromed, they were to be painted silver/grey.

The accelerating from a stop shouldn't be "doggy" because of the light
weight of the car.

Don't pull the topto make it reach the snaps, I pulled a couple out of
the top doing that.  Replacing the spanps usually doesn't work.  Let it
sit in th e sun, open on the car for a couple hours, the try,  GENTLY!!!!

I continually blew up the #4 connecting rod bearing, be sure your not
buring too much oil.

Don't expect too much of a smooth ride.  The lever arm shocks hold the
road, and your bladder.  The are ultra-expensive.  Supposedly the can be
rebuilt.  J. C. Whitney sell a shock replacement kit the uses standard
shocks.

I had to rebuid boththe brake and clutch master cylinder, in addition to
the clutch slave.  This work made a world of changes.

Be sure the carb is the original type replacement.  My 1970 had dual
Stomberg oil dampenned side draft carbs.

Ask if the clutch has ever been replaced.  To replace the engine and
tranny have to be pulled as a unit.

If you need more, I had mine all through hiogh school.  Lots of
maintenance to use every day.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103532
From: hkon@mit.edu (Henry Kon)
Subject: sunroof leaks - I'm all wet

My sunroof leaks.  I've always thought those things were a royal pain.

Can anyone provide any insight ?

I know the seal isn't great.  Maybe I could weld the stupid thing shut.

hk


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103536
From: dchan@cisco.com (Derek Chan)
Subject: Re: service indicator of a BMW


In article <1993Apr22.130721.4420@westminster.ac.uk>, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
|> Derek....
|> 
|> There is a tool available to reset the service indicator on BMWs but the lights
|> will come back on after 2-3 weeks. The tool is in fact illegal (in Europe 
|> atleast). It is often the case that the unsuspecting punter trots off to buy a 
|> used BMW and a few weeks later, all the lights come on! Other than that, I know 
|> of no other tool.... anyone else? 
|> 
|> About changing oil every 15,000 miles.... thats ok.... on newer Audis, they 
|> only require it after every 12,000 miles (I am talking about an oil change)
|> Just a query: do you drive your car VERY VERY carefully? Like no sudden 
|> acceleration etc? If yeah, then the 15,000 M oil change seems quite reasonable.
|> But if you drive kinda fast... I'd get a bit up tight abot that 15,000 thingy
|> 
|> (a point to note: just because the first light came on at 3k, doesn't mean
|> all the others will come on every 3k too)
|> 
|> 							....Shaz....
Shaz,

Hmm.. but the service indicators that I have works this way:
  There are 5 green,1 yellow, 1 red indicators.
  initially all green indicators will be on for few minutes when you start
  your car. The computer will actually "sense" how you drive your car and
  as time goes by the green indicators will start to go off one by one and
  then the yellow indicator will turn on and then the red indicator will go
  on. And you should get service when by the time green indicators are off.
  
  After service the mechanic(or you) will reset the service indicators and the
  computer starts counting again.

So I expect to have a tool(or a procedure) to reset it so the green lights will 
come on and the yellow and red lights will go off.

I wonder how people can do oil change themself without knowing how to reset the
indicator.

It's the first european car I have and changing oil at 15,000 miles is a 
surprise to me. and it's a big plus :-). But I wonder how that could happen
since the oil lose its lubrication ability over time, I thought it's the oil and
not the vehicle that determines how often we should change oil.

Any BMW owner on the net? Response welcomed.

PS.  my initial question is "how do you seset the service indicator of a BMW"

Derek 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103647
From: herling@crchh111.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brent Herling)
Subject: Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions



>In article <1993Apr21.160341.24707@westminster.ac.uk>, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
>|> I just wanted to know:
>|> 
>|> To wheelspin in an auto, you keep the gear in N - gas it - then stick the 
>|> gear in D... I've never tried this but am sure it works - but does this screw 
>|> up the autobox? We're having a bit of a debate about it here...
>
>
>Ah yes,  the neutral slam.
>
>I know that GM tested the old th400's and th350's by shifting from reverse to
>forward gears repeatedly while holding the engine at high rpms.  the units hold
>up incredibly well.  This is also the recommended technique to "rock" a stuck
>vehicle out of the mud.  I think the hydraulics are up to the task, but the
>mechanicals of the driveline may object by breaking something.
>
>$0.02
>
>Ericy 
I agree about the durability of the old TH400 trannies from GM.  While I 
never intentionally slamed my '68 Firebird 400 ci Conv. into gear, I would leave 
the trannie in Low (read 1st), grab hold, hit the pedal, and once the tires 
grabbed, take off.  When I reached about 57-60mph the turbo 400 Auto would 
shift to S (read 'super' or 2nd) and leave about 10 to 15 foot of double 
stripped rubber on the ground.  Most everyone I knew at the time was quite 
impressed with 'peeling' out at 60 MPH.  The trannie held up just fine.
Motor mounts would last about a year until I tied the motor down with large
chains.  Oh yea,FYI:    Pontiac 400 ci bored 0.04 over   
                        Large Valve heads
                        Holley 650 Spread bore
                        Crain 'BLAZER' cam (don't remember the specs)
                        PosiTrac, Hooker headers, Dual exhaust
                        Get this (Conv., leather seats, power windows
                                  power top, AC, Cruise etc.) 

  Oh yea, I also pulled the 'Cocktail shakers' (weights) from the front
  and removed the lead pellet from the accelerator pedal. (Damn US regulations)   
 OH, HOW I MISS THAT CAR!!! 
  -- 0-60 under 6.7 sec  and about 6 to 14 mpg (well I don't miss the mpg)
  -- front wheels 4" off the ground with three quick jabs at the pedal.
  -- bent pushrods, stripped rocker studs,  every 6-12 months 
     ( I really wonder what kind of rev's I was turning - no tach)
Re: Improvements in Automatic Transmissions
  Anyone seen one of these lately?  I'd buy it back in a sec!!!

OPEN TOP Brent

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103650
From: woobin@dance.ee.washington.edu (Woobin Lee)
Subject: Re: .Extensions

In article <1993Apr22.114401.7152@ericsson.se> etxmst@sta.ericsson.se writes:
>I was wondering what the country extension are.
>Sometimes I just don't have a clue from where
>some people are writing.
>
>These are the extensions I know of
>
>ch   Switzerland
>se   Sweden
>fi   Finland
>uk   UK
>Com  US?
>Edu  US?     (are both com and edu US?) 
>fr   France
>
>Please feel free to add to this list.
>
>/ Markus

nz	New Zealand
au	Australia
jp	Japan
kr	Korea
-- 

Woobin Lee -----------------------------------------------------------------
				||
Image Computing System Lab	||	woobin@u.washington.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103653
From: kensib@cary112.its.rpi.edu (Brian C. Kensing)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

I prefer a manual to an automatic as it should be.  I believe that automatics
should only be manufactured for people with physical disabilities who otherwise
would not be able to drive.  Automatic transmissions allow drivers to be lazy.
More time is available to fiddle with the radio or to look at the scenery
instead of concentrating on the road.  The manual transmission keeps the drive
always doing something, granted it isn't a large movement.  Plus, driving should
be FUN!  Driving a manual is fun, driving an automatic is a chore.
	In the case of shift speed, automatics can be made to shift far faster
that any human could move a stick.  If I was racing, I'd want and automatic.  For
normal driving go with the manual.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103656
From: bobc@pyramid.unr.edu (Bob Conrad)
Subject: Re: New Anti-Carjacking Campaign

In article <1993Apr23.013802.4157@freenet.carleton.ca> ae446@Freenet.carleton.ca (Nigel Allen) writes:
>
>Here is a press release from the National Crime Prevention Council
>   The campaign urges drivers to remember to "lock up, roll up, and
>look around":
>   * lock car doors immediately after entering or leaving the car;
>   * roll up windows as far as possible; and
>   * look around and be alert to avoid situations that are
>       suspicious.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

that reminds me of a blurb in the police blotter in my school paper along
the lines of, "...Police were called because [so and so] reported there
were suspicious people hangning around the Business Building."  turns
out it was two black men leaving the building after doing homework late
one night.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103657
From: raman@translab.its.uci.edu (Balaji V. Ramanathan)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

In article <1qofeaINNn7h@shelley.u.washington.edu> gaia@carson.u.washington.edu (I/We are Gaia) writes:
>just stopped putting money into it.  I must have put at least $5000-$7000
>worth of repairs over it's lifetime.  I am sorry but Lee Iacocca can bite
>me.  Bullshit, whoever backs em best, is just afraid the stupid things area
	The part about spending $5000-7000 on repairs reminds me
of an article I read in a magazine comparing the 5 year ownership costs
of a Toyota Camry and a Ford Taurus or something like that.  The result,
which they announced with great flourish was that it cost the same at the
end of the period.  That was their argument to prove that you don't go
wrong buying the Ford Taurus over the Camry.

	Now, if I remember correctly, the Camry costs about $4000 or so more
in initial costs.  Essentially, it means that you spend about $4000 extra
on repairs on the Taurus.  That is ridiculous.  Every time your car
needs repairs, it is extra hassles, loss of time and a dozen other things.
I would much rather spend $5000 more in initial costs than spend $4000 more
in repair costs.

--
----------------->8      Cut here for Signature!       8<---------------------
Balaji Ramanathan,                   | 
Institute of Transportation Studies, |         I don't believe in luck!
University of California, Irvine.    |              I RELY on it!!

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103658
From: dougs@Ingres.COM (DOUG SCHNEYMAN)
Subject: My two cars - Chevy Nova CL ('87) and Dodge 600 SE ('87)

As you can see, I have two 1987 cars, both worth about $3000 each.
The problem is that maintenance costs on these two cars is
running about $4000 per year and insurance $3000 per year.

What am I doing wrong?

Within the last two months, the follows costs have occured:

Dodge 600 SE (Dodge's attempt at the American German car!)

$1,000 - replace head gasket
$300   - new radiator

Chevy Nova CL (Chevy's attempt at a Japan import!)

$500 - tune-up,oil change,valve gasket,middle exhaust pipe, misc.

Note also that the Chevy Nova CL (1987) has only 70 horsepwer!
Does anyone out there have a Chevy Nova with enough power
to get up even a small hill without knocking? Is there
something wrong with my car, I even use 93 octane gas!
(I have consider going to 110 octane if I can find it!)

Anyway, what are the best maintenance items to do-it-yourself,
and what equipment is needed? 

            Thanks,
            -Doug (2 car Doug from Wayne,NJ)


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103659
From: arneh@edb.tih.no (Arne Henriksen)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

The Devil Reincarnate (ssave@ole.cdac.com) wrote:

:   I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
: have v engines.

: V4 - I don't know of any.
: V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
: V8 - Don't know of any.
: V12 - Jaguar XJS


:  Please add to the list.


:  Thanks,
:  -S
:  ssave@ole.cdac.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103660
From: Tom Wetzel <twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Replacement/Custom Seats, Where to get?

In article <1993Apr26.154428.17764@colorado.edu> Jerry Bowman, bowmanj@csn.org
writes:
>          What car are we talking about? If its Camaro, Chevelle,GTO,
>    Nova, Etc. there are a bunch of places to get them.

 A 68 Corvette but, I don't want to put Corvette seats in it.  The original
 seats are in exc. shape but they are uncomfortable as hell.  I'm going to
 store those and find a set to drive in.  I have all the Vette catalogs but
 I'm looking for a more generic type seat.  I can modify the brackets but 
 cushion height and overall width are a concern.  I've looked through some
 local boneyards without success.  I would just like to find a pair of 
 cheapo's to use this summer.  
 
 Tom

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103661
From: vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

> >You know, I'm a Ford fan, I must say, so I'm looking forward to the next
> >Mustang.  I have faith that it will be a fine product, more desireable
> >than the Camaro is now.  You know, that's MHO.  
> 
> True...thats your opinion.
> 
> >They beat Ford to the market with the Camaro/Firebird, but really only
> >in words.  Production of these vehicles will be limited until the
> >end of the year, keeping selling prices above MSRP for the most part
> >since there are so many twitching Camaro fans out there.  I wouldn't
> >press Ford to hurry the Mustang since the final wait could be worth it.
> >Besides, no bow-tie fanatic is gonna buy the Mustang anyway.
> 
> True again.. I wouldn't take a free Mustang...honest.
> 
> >The next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car.  It attracts
> >way more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage
> >is more embedded in the general public.  Don't lie to yourself and
> >believe Ford will forfeit that.
> 
> FYI: they already did.
> Too bad that the current Mustang can't even compete with the new
> Camaro without using an active imagination.
> Right now few cars can compare with the '93 Camaro, Think about it..
> 20,000 for a car that will out perform all but a few exotics.
> If you are now swearing at me look at the stats...they don't lie.
>  There are NO comparable cars in it's class, certinaly not for its price.
> 
> >  You know,intelligent, critical spews like, "The Mustang bites, man!"  
> Some of you are already beginning.  I predict that the Mustang and Camaro
> >will be comparable performers, as usual.
> >
> I also agree, This subject is one that will never be setteled....
> Except maybe at the  track :-)
> 
> >Unless the Ford gets the 32v, 300hp Romeo.  You don't seriously believe
> >that it was designed for the Mark VIII only, do you?
> >
> Hey, can you imagine the potential of a MODIFIED LT-1!!!!!!!
> Folks in a few years we will surpass the levels of performance 
> achieved in the late '60's, thats scary.

You Ford vs Chevy people must live in the planet of Detroit or Droid.

Like they say in the airforce, with enough horsepower anything will fly.

I can put a 32valve V-8 with twin Garret-4s on Yugo and get 7.7sec QM.
Thats useless ... Its still a Yugo that will loose any race on a track,
or on the street.

Have you Detroit beings compared the ultra-long-throw stick shifts of
the 5.0 with the 93 MR2 turbo or 93 RX7 (I ll buy it in 6 mos) ?

Or the Torsen differential of the RX7 compared to the Differential of 
the 5.0 that sounds in every hairpin turn ?

And bythe way 5.0 and Camaro both have drums on the rear breaks ...
Hello , this is the 90 's ?

Vlasis Theodore
Software Engineer

-Just say no to signatures-

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103662
From: reilly@admail.fnal.gov (Rob Reilly)
Subject: Re: Changing brake fluid..is it necessary..

In article <1993Apr23.163129.53125@gmuvax.gmu.edu>, lcarr@gmuvax.gmu.edu
wrote:
> 
> Hi.
>  I've been seeing all these articles about changing
> brake fluid and I am wondering if this is really necessary.
> I have an 86 Toyota Corolla SR5, with 94000 and I am in the
> process of doing preventative maintenance and I was
> wondering if this was something that I should add to
> my list of things to do.
> Any information would be greatly appreciated. I really
> love this car and would like to keep it for as long as 
> possible.
> 
> Thanx...
> 
> -lisa
> 
> sign me... only a manual will do..

Amplifying on Jeff Goss's answer, the absorbed water will rust your
brakelines and master cylinder and calipers and you could suddenly lose all
your brake fluid.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103663
From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?

In article <1993Apr22.173402.665@Virginia.EDU>, ejv2j@Virginia.EDU ("Erik Velapoldi") writes...
#nataraja@rtsg.mot.com  writes:
#> I heard the diesels are considered cleaner-burning than
#> gas engines because the emit less of: Carbon Monoxide,
#> Hydrocarbons, and Oxides of Nitrogen.  (CO, HC, NOX).
#> 
#> But they can put out a lot of particulate matter.  I heard
#> something about legislation being discussed to "clean up
#> diesel emissions".  Is there anything in the works to
#> install "scrubbers" for diesels?  How about the feasibility
#> of installing them on trucks and cars?  Would it be any
#> different than a catylitic converter?  I'd assume easier,
#> since we're removing particulate matter instead of converting
#> gasses.  Let's hear people's opinions...
#> 
# 
#VW and Mercedes have tinkered with particulate traps.  Also, VW
#uses a kind of turbocharger on their Jetta ECOdiesel that helps
#reduce particulates as well, although I don't know the
#mechanics of it.
# 
#Many diesel cars,busses, and trucks in Europe are now being
#equipped with catalysts and traps in an effort to clean up
#diesel emissions, already well below legal limits anyway.
# 
#It's a shame GM had to soil the diesel's reputation in
#passenger cars and prevent further resource devotion to
#research into making this outstandingly efficient engine even
#further ahead of gas engines in emissions.
# 
#erik

   I sure don't know what and how they measure in regards to diesel 
 motors in cars, trucks, and busses, but I think they are probably
 measuring the wrong pollutants, or at the wrong time, or both.

   I certainly find it offensive to drive behind a diesel bus or
 diesel truck and some diesel cars.  They stink!  And it's always
 roll-up-the-windows panic time when one comes by or ducks in front
 of me when I am driving with my family.

   I don't think the combustion mixture is kept under very good
 control in diesel engines, and that's why they stink.  So the 
 invisible, unsmellable pollutants are reduced in diesels.  Yeah,
 well so what!?  Someone forgot about the visible, stinky kind, and,
 as far as I am concerned, those kind are just as bad.

    I am all for de-stinking the diesel vehicles.  It'll keep the
 traffic signs cleaner, too.

 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 327/278
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103664
From: hhd0@harvey.gte.com (Horace Dediu)
Subject: Re: MBenz 300 series, VW Passat

Go with the Mercedes, if you can afford it.  I think the 300 wagon starts around
50k, although it could be 60k.

There is no comparison with any of the other cars listed.

-- 
Horace Dediu                                                  GTE Laboratories
(617) 466-4111                                                40 Sylvan Road
Internet: hdediu@gte.com                                      Waltham, MA 02254

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103665
From: mcrosbie@batman.bmd.trw.com
Subject: Re: Viper Car Alarms

In article <C605Fr.CDo@cs.uiuc.edu>, u1815@cs.uiuc.edu (Ronald E Garnett) writes:
> Hello auto enthusiasts!
> 
> I recently had more car mangled (broken into) and decided to
> get an alarm installed.  It's a Viper 400 and has a shock
> sensor, sensors for each door, ignition cutoff, and automatic
> door locks.

I have this same alarm installed in my Syclone.  It works great.  The shock
sensor is very sensitive, but much more practical than the motion sensor I have
on my other car.  It doesn't trigger if the car is rocked gently by the wind,
but any kind of shock sets it off.  Even kicking the tire sets it off.  It
works great.

> 
> What worries me is the hood and hatch.  If someone could pry 
> them up gently enough, then they could bypass the alarm.

The shock sensor is adjustable and there are two cycles on it.  You can adjust
it to be sensitive enough that there is no way you could open the hood without
setting off the alarm.  Although, I know that you cannot pop the hood on the
Syclone without setting off my alarm now, and yet I have had zero (none!) false
alarms with this system.  The alarm tells you when you disarm it whether it has
been activated in your absence.  I have been able to trace every alarm to it's
cause and it was not a false alarm.
> 
> I'm also wondering how easy it would be for a thief to crawl
> underneath the car and cut the battery cable to disable the alarm.
> 
I guess it would be possible depending on the vehicle.  My Syclone is so tight
in the engine compartment that it would be tough to do this.  There are
supplemental power supplies you can put on with this Viper alarm, but I don't
have one.  I really think that if someone wants my car that bad, the alarm
won't keep them from it, even with a supplemental power supply.

> Viper also sells some fancy field disturbance sensor that
> supposedly detects people approcahing the car....
> 
This is primarily for convertibles.  I have a convertible and have looked at
this feature in detail.  Alpine actually makes a better radar unit if you want
to get one of these.  It has zones in it that can be shut down independently so
that if one side of your car has pedestrian traffic or something else that
would trigger an alarm, it shuts down the zone, or rather, pulls it in tighter.
I don't see the real benefit to these unless you have a convertible that you
leave the top down on.

Avoid the voice alarm that can be added to the radar package.  It talks to
people as they walk by.  I saw one installed on a Lotus Esprit.  The kids would
taunt it seeing how close they could get before it 'warned' them to get back. 
The owner finally disabled it, which defeats the purpose in my mind.
> 
> I'm interested in the opinions of you netters about these problems
> and about the viper in general.
> 
I am real happy with my Viper.  One other feature I really like is you can tune
it to your preferences.  You can have it arm passively or not.  You can disable
the chirp for arming/disarming.  You can have it lock/unlock the doors when the
alarm is armed/disarmed.  

I like these features.  I hate the chirp when the alarm arms/disarms, so mine
flashes the lights only.  I like the door lock feature, although I have to be
careful to take my keys with me because it doesn't know if you have left your
keys in the car when it passively arms and locks the doors.  But, if you are
meticulous about taking your keys with you, it takes care of the rest.
> The car is an 89 Ford Probe GT that used to be in great shape!
> 
> 
> Ron Garnett
> 

I looked seriously at the Alpine system too.  It is a real nice system, but
more money and it has a motion sensor standard instead of the shock sensor. 
The shock sensor is better....and the Viper shock sensor is better (2 cycle)
than the optional Alpine one, IMHO.  I think the Viper gives you a lot of good
value for the money.  But it isn't absolutely tamperproof.  No system is. 
Except maybe the one that James Bond had on his Lotus in For Your Eyes Only. 
Anyone know where we can get one of those installed?  Maybe that was what they
had in the van in the World Trade Center, huh?>


Merrill


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103666
From: leapman@austin.ibm.com (Scott Leapman)
Subject: Re: AUTOFOM/FOMBLIN A ????


I tried the AutoFom stuff on my 1991 Saturn SC, and was so disappointed with it
that I returned it for a refund.  I polished the car for 2 hours and couldn't
remove the swirl marks/thin film that was all over the finish.  It also
attracted more dirt than without the stuff.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103667
From: leapman@austin.ibm.com (Scott Leapman)
Subject: Car Alarms- Which One?


Before we get into another discussion on the relative merits of a car alarm,
let's go on the assumption that one is desired.  The question then remains,
which one?  I've owned a Hornet, and was satisfied, but not enough to get
another for my new car.  The Alpine has been highly recommended, but what about
Clifford and VSE's Derringer 2?  Any others?  I want all of the standard stuff;
door lock interface, starter kill, light flash, LED, valet mode, passive/active,
shock/motion sensor, etc...  Thanks for the advice!


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103668
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: funny car taxes (was Re: Market Access)

In article <1r5acf$nh1@agate.berkeley.edu> robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson) writes:
>Keep in mind that owning any car in Korea is a luxury that only the ruling
>class can afford.  Every government agency worth its salt finds some reason
>to levy a tax on car ownership; last I heard, there were seven different
>fees to pay to own a car.  

We used to have a tax in Greece named after the Queen's Mother. The Queen
left (Monarchy was abolished) but the tax stuck...

Similar single purpose taxes have stuck (i.e. to help the victims of 
the earthquake of 19XX, build the Metro)

ObMoralConclusion: next time someone proposes a car tax or gasoline tax
promising it's temporary, it AIN'T. 

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103669
From: homi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Sammy)
Subject: Changing M/T oil on M89 Maxima?

Hello again, another question.  :)

I just got my hands on 2 quarts of ReadLine Gear Oil (at $7 a quart)
now I need to know how to throw it into my car.

I own an 89 NIssan Maxima Se, any Ideas?
Can I mix the Oil in there with this stuff, or should I drain first, then
	only use this stuff.
If you know where (if there is one) the drain plug on the manual transmission
	on the Maxima is, I would really appreciate any comments.
Also have any of you Maxima owners, thied this stuff in your cars?

Thanks in ADV.
Sammy


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103670
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>
>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>have v engines.
>
>V4 - I don't know of any.

V4s? I don't know of any. I4s and flat4s are abundant.

>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?

A whole $h!tload. Minivans, pickups, just about any car above the
subcompact/compact range and below the full-size range (with a few
exceptions).

I6s are much more rare now; the only one I personally know of that's
still in production is the venerable Ford 300CID in the F-series pickups.
I think that Jeep's big 6's are also straight sixes, but I'm not a
big Jeep person.

>V8 - Don't know of any.

Where are you to not know of V8s? There are Mustangs, Cadillacs,
Lincolns, Camaros, Corvettes, Thunderbirds, all real full-size
pickups, Crown Vics, Chevy Moby^H^H^H^HCaprice ;-), and even a few
Japanese and European vee-hickles with V8s.

V10 - Dodge Viper; Dodge promises a truck with a V10.

>V12 - Jaguar XJS

Don't Ferarri and Lamborghini both use V-12s extensively?

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103671
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr22.180150.12377@telxon.mis.telxon.com> joes@telxon.mis.telxon.com (Joe Staudt) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>>
>>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>>have v engines.
>>
>>V4 - I don't know of any.
>Because there is no such thing.

A friend had a Ford Taunus (era early 60's) that *did* have a V4 in it.

I lost a bet on it. I find it hard to believe there are no *recent* cars
with a V4 in them. Any *recent* ones?

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103672
From: daveb@Ingres.COM (Dave Brower, DBMS hack, [510] 748-3418)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

In article <1993Apr21.100149.1501@rtsg.mot.com>, kissane@black (John G. Kissane) writes:
>As a matter of interest does anyone know why autos are so popular in the US while 
>here in Europe they are rare??? Just wondering.....

Primarily milage.  Gas is much more expensive, so people are very
concerned about it taking a few more liters per kilometer.  This,
along with narrow old cities, also results in smaller cars with
smaller engines.  These engines usually don't have the torque to mesh
well with an automatic.  So, having engines that don't work well with
autos, and a great concern for milage, the usual Euro-car has a
manual.

(Note that not many big Benzes come with manuals.  If you've got the
money for the car, you've got the money for the gas, and the engine to
drive through the slushbox.)

As automatics become more efficient, the "bigotry" is probably
reduced.  Still, everyone knows how to drive a manual, and cars are
cheaper with one, and it saves a little expensive fuel.  So there
aren't compelling reasons to go automatic.

-dB

-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103673
From: jafo@miranda.accum.com (Sean Reifschneider)
Subject: Re: Too fast

This whole discussion is just a religous war.  I'd rather have a '93 RX-7
than the Mustang 5.0L for 3 times the price.  That's how you explain
Porsches selling.  Some folks would rather have the Stang...

<shrug>

Sean
-- 
Test signature

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103674
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?


V16 anyone? Anyone heard of a Cizata V16T ??? Its mainly sold in the middle 
east where they dont have as strict a legislation as in the USA and EC....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103675
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Nissan Nomenclature (was Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted)

Thanx Craig.... in addition to Craigs coments - and to clear up any 
further confusion.... the 200SX (of USA) was reffered to as a Silvia Turbo
in the UK.... performance figures of UK 200SX are:

			0-60: 6.4s
			Vmax: 142mph
						...Shaz.. 
Oh one more Q: you know that new Prelude VTEC? Well is there an auto version
in the USA? I've heard of them in Japan but not UK. Also, do you guys get 
auto Miatas?

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103676
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Emergency Brake on Opel  (was: '86 Nissan Maxima)

Since we're on the subject of brakes.... does anyone know why a 4WD Vauxhall/
Opel disengages drive to the rear wheels when the brakes are applied? Vauxhall
boast about how the car is more stable in fwd mode during braking than in 4wd
mode.... how is this so? 
						...Shaz...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103677
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Dirty Diesels?


Yeah, diesels are cleaner than petrol powered cars. They even have catalysts 
fitted to disels now! Oh and Citroen have even launched the 'First sports 
diesel car in the world'. Which is probably true if you assume if its for 
production purposes (Merc-Benz had a prototype which runs on diesel back in 
around 1968..... it did - and read this! - 200 MPH!!!)
							....Shaz....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103678
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the VW Corrado VR6

In the EC, the Corrado VR6 is rated as 'best handling car this side of a 
968'. As it goes, I just read an article in 'Autocar & Motor' comparing the 
VR6 to a Ford Probe (later to be launched in the UK).... The VR6 is more powerful (even more so coz its 2.9 instead of 2.8 in the EC) and more fun to drive
etc etc... but the Probe has a slightly smoother engine (thanx Mazda MX6!)...

They sum it up as 'both cars are fast - the VR6 is a bit more exhilirating to 
drive but only if you're prepared to work harder'
 							....Shaz....

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103679
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: .Extensions

In article <1r6omsINNnbk@ctron-news.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>In article <gfpftjW00iV3Q3vWYv@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Daniel U. Holbrook" <dh3q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>These are the extensions I know of
>>>ch   Switzerland
>>>se   Sweden
>>>fi   Finland
>>>uk   UK
>>>Com  US?
>>>Edu  US?     (are both com and edu US?) 
>>>fr   France
>>dk    denmark
>>no    Norway
>
>.com and .edu are both United States, one refers to commercial institutions,
>the other to mental - I mean, "educational" - institutions.  .gov is also
>pretty much US, it refers to government institutions.  Internet was built on
>the AARP backbone, a US Defense contractor network that used the extension

I think you mean ARPA; AARP is the American Association of Retired Persons,
and I seriously doubt that they'd want young whippersnappers building
anything on their backbones, what with de-calcification and all :-)

>to identify the type of organisation.  Internet extended the convention for
>other countries, but the US retained the old conventions.

The general convention is that if it doesn't have a country tag on it, it's
a US site. That includes:
	.com	commercial 
	.edu	educational 
	.mil	US Military sites 
	.gov	US Gov't non-military sites (eg NASA sites)
	.org	anyone who is "none of the above"
There are sites with such tags that are non-US sites, but they will have
the country extension (eg xxxx.edu.au is an extension I saw today).
US sites can also use the .us extension, but, as Mr. Smith pointed 
out, the Internet was built on the ARPANet backbone, and they default
to US sites if there's no country code.

I would suggest that anyone who didn't know this (or wants to know
more about it on a non-system-administrative level) check out
the book _The_Whole_Internet_User's_Guide_and_Catalog_ by Ed Krol.
(or is it Catalog and User's Guide? I can never remember, and my copy
is my desk at home...). It's a very good not-necessarily-technical
guide to the Internet and the various utilities that lurk on it (including
USENET). I don't think it's part of the Nutshell series, but it is
published by O'Reilly and Associates.

This should go to one of the news.* newsgroups, but damned if I
can figure out which one.... :-)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103680
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Radar detectors in the UK

Did youy guys know that it is LEGAL to own a radar detector but is ILLEGAL
to use it! Isn't that a bit like owning a gun but not being allowed to use it?
My mate just switches his off whenever the cops are around.  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103681
From: edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards)
Subject: Re: comparing saabs & bmw's

In article <1r7js5$k50@biz.ecs.umass.edu> suri@ganzer.ecs.umass.edu () writes:
>hi,
>would someone like to post a comparative analysis (quantitative
>measures -hp etc and more so the qualitative feel of how they compare
>for the driving feel, handling, noise, responsiveness etc) for the
>saab 900/9000's and the bmw 3/5 series.
>any comments on just comparing the 900 with the 9000 re: handling. 
>i take it that the saabs and bmw's are comparable for reliability and
>all that....would be nice if flaming wars could be avoided and
>folks just post their experiences ..

I had a '82 Saab 900 Turbo, and now have a '87 BMW 325is

There is no comparison for handling, reliability, or overall quality of
engineering. The BMW wins hands down. After 5 years I was sick and tired
of the all the little problems and entropic decay of the SAAB. The 6-year
old BMW is still as sweet as it was new.

But I see you are posting from western MA. BMW's **SUCK** in the snow.
I have aggressive snows, plus a hundred pounds of sand in the back, and I
still try to avoid driving in the snow. I happily took the SAAB through
blizzard conditions without a worry. I would say this is the single design
flaw in the BMW.
 
-- 
Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103682
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <1993Apr24.003549.126206@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL) writes:

>In article <1993Apr15.155325.6329@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, nancy@hayduke (Nancy
> Feagans) writes:
>>Ashtrays and cigarette lighters.  These should be an *option*.

>You forget that the cigarette lighter plug is essential for plugging in radar
>detectors and lights. The ashtrays are also essential because they are great
>places to keep change and tokens.

Wouldn't you rather have some type of standard "electrical" plug instead of 
that "fire hazard waiting to happen" adaptor? I know I would, and I would 
also prefer to have sensibly placed cup holders instead of an ashtray. (my 
car came with coin holders already built in)

Ron

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103683
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: BMW 528i

In article <1993Apr26.160911.28922@westminster.ac.uk>, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
>In article <1993Apr25.180954.20425@ultb.isc.rit.edu> adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>>The radio does not work untill the car warms up and you honk the horn (!)
>
>Hahaa!!!!!! hahahah!! hahahahahahaaaaa! I cant stop - its killing me!! 
>hahah!!! 
>

I was dead serious when I posted it. I actually have an attempt of explanation
to this phenomenon, but I'll keep you guessing. I still want responces, 
of which I got exactly 0.
Mike.S

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103684
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu (Cris Hannu) writes:

>In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com>, ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>> 
>>   I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>> have v engines.
>> 
>> V4 - I don't know of any.
>> V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>> V8 - Don't know of any.

>       Yeah, right....

>The BMW 8xx are V10's or V12's, can't remember which... the auto show was
>a while ago.

	The 850 is a V12 (5L, from the 750iL)  Is there a 835? or 840?

>> V12 - Jaguar XJS
>> 
>> 
>>  Please add to the list.
>>  Thanks,
>>  -S
>>  ssave@ole.cdac.com
>-- 
>Cris Hannu                       |  Windsurfing the high country.
>Cray Research, Inc.              |
>@NCAR - Boulder, CO              |         ^           ^
>cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu        |        / \ ___)___ / \ 


-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103685
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Subject: Re: It's a rush... (was Re: Too fast)

In article <21APR199314371355@stdvax> oaddab@stdvax (DIRK BROER) writes:

>Still its amazing in Germany you can have cars traveling 155 mph and 65 mph 
>on the same 3 to 4 lane road.  Around Washington DC they can't keep traffic 
>flowing at 55.

Actually, that'd be 155 mph and 60 mph (the legal speed limit for trucks) 
in *two* lanes, each direction. It's a hell of a rush when those trucks fly 
by. (or was that me flying by them? Who cares, the rush is really something 
else, and so is the draft)

Ron

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103686
From: damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore) writes:

>Have you Detroit beings compared the ultra-long-throw stick shifts of
>the 5.0 with the 93 MR2 turbo or 93 RX7 (I ll buy it in 6 mos) ?

>Or the Torsen differential of the RX7 compared to the Differential of 
>the 5.0 that sounds in every hairpin turn ?

Or the price tag of the RX7 vs. a Mustang? Part of the definition of
a Mustang is that it should be affordable by the masses. Of course
Ford knows youre argument, THEY OWN A BIG PIECE OF MAZDA! Take a good
look at a Mach III, now an RX7, hhhmmmmm...

>And bythe way 5.0 and Camaro both have drums on the rear breaks ...
>Hello , this is the 90 's ?

That is a tragedy, but I don't think new Camaros or the new Mustangs will.

-Steve

7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7
               Alan Kulwicki    1992 Winston Cup Champion
                              1954 - 1993
7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103687
From: adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: MR2 seats for sale

In article <1993Apr26.155800.29900@noao.edu>, groves@noao.edu (Lee Groves) writes:
>From article <1993Apr26.025509.27126@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, by adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu:
>> I have a pair of sport seats from '85 MR2 for sale, blue/black.
>
>As the owner of an MR2, and having several friends who own them,
>I am very uncomfortable when I see an ad like this.  I have known
>several people who have lost the seats from their MR2 in the middle
>of the night to support the Celica retro-fit trade.  --and the 
>insurance companies have been very miserable to deal with
>in all cases.  
>
>When these seats are seen for sale, they are *most often* stolen.
>So it would be nice to see a statement saying where they came from.
>That would at least help to soothe the reflexive fear that someone
>is making a buck at someone elses expense.
>
>I'll give this seller the benefit of the doubt, but people should be
>aware the the vast majority of MR2 seats on the market--especially
>those that are in Celicas--are stolen.
>
>
>Lee
>
>( BTW:  They *are* incredible seats...  So if it's legit, go for it! )
>
>

I am the original owner of the seats and the original poster. 
I take VERY serious offence in your statement. 
I see a lot of computers advertized on the net, and my friend just had been
releived of his machine = all the net-computer ads are for stolen computers?
Where did you learn logic?

As for the seats, they were replaced by a much harder (literally) Celica GTS
seats due to my back problem. That is why I had to reuse the MR2 brackets
and that's why the MR2 seats I sell are attached to Celica brackets.

Please in the future think before you make allegations like the above.
It hurts.
Mike.S

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103688
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together!

In article <1r7f9qINNk24@phantom.gatech.edu> grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas) writes:
>jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blade Runner") writes:
>
>>A GT-40?!  Gotta be in my top 5 favorite-cars-of-all-time
>>list.  Where is this place?  Was the car for sale?  COME ON, I
>>need details...or not.  Anyways, I just had to say WOW at the
>>sighting of such a fine beast.  But remember, the Mustang will
>>forever be the true King of the Road.  
>
>The place was in what used to be a small town (now a suburb) north of 
>Atlanta. I don't know if the car was for sale or not, you wouldn't put
>a price on the window on this type of car anyway. 

Damn straight! As far as I've heard, unless the owner is _very_
hard up, the GT-40s are not for sale at any price that mere
mortals could afford.

>And maybe the Mustang
>will be forever King of the Road, the GT-40 isn't road legal.

I think the GT-40 actually _is_ street legal, although that particular
question is moot (see the price figures below).

>This car was right hand drive (weren't they all like that?). How much does
>a GT-40 go for? How many were made?

I wish I could find my Shelby-American guide; it included the GT-40
registry (as of '88 or so). There were precious few of them made 
(fifty is the number that springs to mind; they made just enough
to qualify for the Manufacturer's Cup, or whichever series it
was that Shelby broke Ferarri's 13-year winning streak in in '65),
and they are all accounted for. The last price I saw estimated on a
GT-40 was a little bit over $1,000,000 (yes, that's right, ONE MILLION
US DOLLARS; it was second only to some worthless piece of Ferrari
that it would blow the doors off of ;-).

I don't recall off-hand what the drive configuration was, although
I'm certain some must have been LHD, as they had to be sold to qualify
for racing. The drivertrain was the Ford 427 (hi-riser, I think, 
and/or side-oiler) coupled to various 4-speed transmissions. They
also used 3-speed manuals; they had lots of problems with the
original trannys breaking under the load of the 427. Layout was
rear-engine, rear-drive, with the "bundle of snakes" exhaust
headers...I can remeber other bits and pieces of info, but I
can't remember whether they applied to the GT-40 or the Shelby
Cobra Daytona Coupe...I'll try and find that reference.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103689
From: matthews@oswego.Oswego.edu
Subject: MG T-series FOR SALE


1954 MG-TF with frame-up restoration in early '70's - a local show winner!
Driven very little and stored inside since then - mostly collected dirt &
dust.  Needs attention to brake cylinders (like all MG-T's) but otherwise
ready to run.  Chrome & paint not fancy but it is mechanically excellent.
The engine, a 1250cc, was completely overhauled by a machine shop.  It is
priced at $12,000.

1953 MG-TD Good shape but hasn't been run since '70's.  Needs engine work,
but no rust and everything is with it including a top, side curtains and
carpet that were new and haven't seen the outdoors since the '70's. $9,500.

1952 MG-TD Basket Case.  I'd call it a parts car, but it's too good
for that.  Everything seems to be there except the tach.  Would make
a good project car or parts car if you insist.  No apparent rust but the
upholstery is a disaster.  Stored inside since the '70's.  The top was
new but now soso.  This one has wire wheels!  Looking for $4,500.

All three cars will be sold "as they stand" with no hassles or haggles.
Time has passed by and it is time to part company.  Prices are negotiable.

Reply via matthews@Oswego.oswego.edu or   U.S. mail to: P. O. Box 1015
                                       315-341-3501   Oswego, NY 13126


-- 

Harry Matthews K2AOU    WRVO/WRVN/WRVJ     Internet: matthews@oswego.oswego.edu
Learning Resources      Satellite TV         Bitnet: matthews@snyoswva
S.U.N.Y. College        Cable TV         Voice Mail: 315-341-3501
Oswego, NY 13126        ALLOY NTNX-PC    MHO's are mine, not S.U.N.Y. Oswego's.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103690
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: horizontally opposed/boxer engines (was: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr26.174602.28054@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
>None of the configurations are perfectly inherently balanced, which
>is what I was talking about.  Balance shafts and mass on either
>ends of the cranks can eliminate these forces/moments, which is
>something I also pointed out.

and didn't you also say that it was easier to add masses than to
add balance shafts?  the sad truth is that some makers don't
bother to put balance shafts on their big shaky 4's..

>The three cranks I refer to:            i^
>                                         |
>        ___     i^      ___             1 4      I4:
>       |   |     |     |   |             |       even-firing (180 deg)
> <- ___| 1 |    ___    | 4 |___      <-  |
> k         | 2 |   | 3 |             j   |       Fp=0
>           |___|   |___|                 |       Mp=0
>                                        2 3      Fs=4(R/L)Zcos2T
>                                                 Ms=0
>
>                                        j^
>                                         |
>        ___     j^      ___             1 4      Flat4:
> <-    |   |     |     |   |             |       even-firing (180 deg)
> k  ___| 1 |    ___    | 4 |___          | ->
>           | 2 |   | 3 |                 |  i    Fp=0
>           |___|   |___|                 |       Mp=0
>                                        2 3      Fs=0
>          a = crank spacing                      Ms=2a(R/L)Zcos2T
>
>
>                j^
>                 |                      j^
>               1   3                     |
>              ___                       1 2      Flat4:
>       <-    |   |                       |       even-firing (180 deg)
>       k  ___|   |    ___                | ->
>                 |   |                   |  i    Fp=0
>                 |___|                   |       Mp=2aZcosT
>                                        4 3      Fs=0
>               2   4                             Ms=0
>

how about:
	    1	 3
	   __    __
	  |  |  |  |
	__|  |  |  |   __
	     |  |  |  |
	     |__|  |__|
	
	       2     4		

if this is ridiculous, kindly explain why.. it's been more than 10 years
since i studied this stuff.  :-)

>Flat 4s and I4s both have the potential to be nearly vibration
>free.  Because Subaru does that has nothing to do with I4s in
>general or Porsche.

>I think Subaru somehow connecting themselves to Porsche is an
>absurdity, and I'm not a Porsche fan.  Big wing dings.  These
>configurations, overhead cams, etc, etc, etc, have been around
>for nearly 100 years. 

the point that they are trying to make is that while everybody settles
for the orthodox inline 4, they are using a horizontally opposed 4,
which is unique in that market segment.  and porsche also uses a flat
six in their 911, so what's the problem?  i don't see any claim that
their engine is as good as a porsche's.. they are simply pointing out
that they use the same configuration as a porsche.. if you want to
nitpick ad campaigns, i think there are far more blatant excesses than
this.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103691
From: dchan@cisco.com (Derek Chan)
Subject: Re: service indicator of a BMW


Thanks for all the recommendations. I have decide to ignore the service 
indicators and do oil change myself every 3000 miles.

Thanks again for all the responses. 

Derek

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103692
From: hsk@microplex.com (Harjeet Kalsi)
Subject: New Mercedes Diesels 

 
Hi fellow auto enthusiasts!

Does anyone have any info on the new 4 valve per cylinder diesels Mercedes
is working on?  Any specs on outputs, engine size, will they be direct or 
indirect injection?,  etc. would be welcome.  From what I hear these should 
be out late this year, next year??

Thank you in advance for your replies!

Harjeet
hsk@microplex.com

 



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103693
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: Replacement/Custom Seats, Where to get?

In article <C63uqs.H46@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Tom Wetzel <twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>In article <1993Apr26.154428.17764@colorado.edu> Jerry Bowman, bowmanj@csn.org
>writes:
>>          What car are we talking about? If its Camaro, Chevelle,GTO,
>>    Nova, Etc. there are a bunch of places to get them.
>
> A 68 Corvette but, I don't want to put Corvette seats in it.  The original
> seats are in exc. shape but they are uncomfortable as hell.  I'm going to
> store those and find a set to drive in.  I have all the Vette catalogs but
> I'm looking for a more generic type seat.  I can modify the brackets but 
> cushion height and overall width are a concern.  I've looked through some
> local boneyards without success.  I would just like to find a pair of 
> cheapo's to use this summer.  
> 
> Tom

         Call around to some wrecking yards in your area and,if they have
    any, look at Fiero seats. They are right down on the floor like a vette
    and not too wide.If you can't find any let me know and i'll call around
    here for you. I'm sure these yards ship stuff all the time.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103694
From: Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE (Thomas Tornblom)
Subject: Re: Ultimate AWD vehicles

In article <20726.2bcd8b62@ecs.umass.edu> sylveste@ecs.umass.edu writes:


   Before the S4 became the S4 it was called the 200 turbo quattro 20v.
   This model did come in a wagon, a very quick wagon.  Very rare also.

						      Mike Sylvester  Umass

Being a satisfied Audi owner (-90 100 turbo quattro. my 4:th Audi) I
get the free VAG magazine. The latest issue presented a new S4 Avant
(wagon) with a 4.2 litre V8. I'd like one of these ;-)

Btw, this is my second quattro and my third turbo and I must say that
even in the summer, with dry roads, the quattros give so much extra in
road holding and balance that I hope I can afford them always.

Thomas
--
Real life:      Thomas Trnblom           Email:  Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE
Snail mail:     Communicator Nexus AB     Phone:  +46 18 171814
                Box 857                   Fax:    +46 18 696516
                S - 751 08 Uppsala, Sweden

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103695
From: sbonsib@data.cac.stratus.com (Steve Bonsib)
Subject: After market sunroofs (power moonroof BIG $ type) who makes the best?

Hello all,

I know that after market sunroofs may have left a bad taste in some of  
your mouths, but I am really interested in finding a "good" brand if one  
exists.  Please let me know if you have heard of any makers with a good
reputation (few failures, no leaks, that sort of thing) and whether or
not you have had first hand experience with that manufacturer.  Who is
generally regarded in the industry as the "best" (price no object) maker  
of power sunroofs?? 

--Steve

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Bonsib 			| reply to: sbonsib@cac.stratus.com
Stratus Computer 		|  
Marlboro MA 			| 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103696
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Subject: WANTED: '92 Toyota Previa All-Trac, Low Miles

I'm looking to buy a '92 Toyota Previa All-Trac with low miles.
If you are selling one, or want someone to buy out an existing lease,
please contact me by mail.

-- 
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103697
From: leeab@soda.berkeley.edu (Ark-Boon Lee)
Subject: Centreforce Clutch


Any one with experience in having a centreforce clutch (or any other)
on his/her car?
I'm considering to replace my old stock clutch on my 90 CRX Si.
What is a fair price?

Martin

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103698
From: jackw@boi.hp.com (jack wood)
Subject: Re: Chevy/GMC 4x4 Fullsize Pickups, Opinions?

Dick Grady (grady@world.std.com) wrote:
: 
: I am considering buying a 1993 Chevy or GMC 4x4 full-size pickup with
: the extended cab.  Any opinions about these vehicles?  Have there been
: any significant problems?
: 
: -- 
: Dick Grady           Salem, NH,  USA            grady@world.std.com
: So many newsgroups, so little time!


I bought a brand new 1992 Chevrolet K2500 HD 4x4 extended cab last
May.  It has had many, many problems.  See my earler post that describes
the situation.  I went to BBB arbitration, and they ruled that Chevrolet
must buy it back from me.  If you do get one, stay away from the 5 speed
manual with the deep low first gear.  They have put three of them in my
truck so far.  After about 1,500 miles, overdrive either starts
rattling or hissing loudly.  There is no way to fix them.  Chevrolet 
says that the noise is "a characteristic of the transmission."

Also, if you are planning to use your truck to tow, the
gear ratios in that tranny suck.  On a steep hill, you get up to about
55 MPH in second gear at 4,000 RPM (yellow line).  If you shift to third,
the RPM drop to only 2,500, and you begin to loose speed.  I should
point out that the 350 V8 they put in the HD (8600 GVW) trucks is a
detuned motor compared to the one they put in the light duty ones.  They
dropped the compression ratio, supposedly for "engine longevity"
reasons.  So the light duty 350 may pull better than my truck does.
Other things that have gone wrong include the ventilation fan (3 times 
so far), paint (had specs of rust embedded in the paint from being
shipped by rail with no covering), and suspension parts (link between
stabilizer and control arm fell off).

Any company can make a bad individual car, Chevrolet included.  What
really bothered me was the way they reacted.  They made no attempt
to deal with me except to tell me to take it back to the dealer for 
them to attempt to fix it one more time.  So I bought a brand new
Ford F250 HD Super Cab with a 460 and an automatic.  I will never
buy another Chevrolet.

jackw@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103699
From: ae015@Freenet.carleton.ca (Steve Hui)
Subject: High-mileage Audi question


A question for any high-mileage Audi owners out there: I am
interested in buying a 1989 Audi 5000S for $5500 Cdn.  The
reason the car is selling for so little is that is has
155000 km on it (just under 100000 mi.).  The car's owner
claims the car is in good condition.  My question is: how
reliable are Audi 5000s with mileage that high?  Would it
be worthwhile for me to buy the car?  Any problem areas that
I should look out for?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Post responses and/or
e-mail me.

Thanks

Steve Hui
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103700
From: Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE (Thomas Tornblom)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:

     I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
   have v engines.

   V4 - I don't know of any.
   V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?

VW Golf/Passat 2.8l VR6 (inline V6!), very narrow angle (11 deg?), one head.
Audi 80/100 2.6/2.8l V6

   V8 - Don't know of any.

Audi V8 3.6/4.2l
Some MBs
Some BMWs

   V12 - Jaguar XJS
BMW 750/850
MB *600*

    Please add to the list.


    Thanks,
    -S
    ssave@ole.cdac.com
--
Real life:      Thomas Trnblom           Email:  Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE
Snail mail:     Communicator Nexus AB     Phone:  +46 18 171814
                Box 857                   Fax:    +46 18 696516
                S - 751 08 Uppsala, Sweden

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103701
From: finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>
>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>
>
>eliot

Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
"underscore 4")?

Kenneth
finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil





Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103702
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: RE: IMPALA SS GOING INTO


In a previous article, george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org (George Howell) says:

>GM has always screwed the rest of the divisions in favor of the
>Corvette. The current platform is no exception. The "detuned" Camaro and
>Firebird is a load of crap to keep people from realizing that they can
>buy one of these instead of a Corvette and save about $10,000.
>
>I like the idea of an Impala SS, but if they really wanted to impress
>me, they would throw in a big phat 454. Imagine the cops in their Taurus
>police package 3.0 and 3.8 litres as they stare at your taillights...


gimme a break!  you KNOW chevy'd screw that up just like that almost great
truck with the "big phat 454".  Have you ever seen the mufflers on that 
thing??it's amazing it moves....(which isn't to say it's not a good idea,
but i'm quite sure chevy'd screw it up the same way)

DREW
>George Howell
>
>     _____
>  __|     |____            M   M   OOO  PPP   AAA   RRR
> /            /            MM MM  O   O P  P A   A  R  R
>/___       __/             M M M  O   O PPP  AAAAA  RRR
>    |______|               M   M  O   O P    A   A  R  R
> _________________         M   M   OOO  P    A   A  R  R
>/                 \        :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>|      FORD       |        :'Better Living Through American Horsepower':
>\_________________/        :George Howell                              :
>                           :george.howell%goucher@wb3ffv.ampr.org      :
>                           :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>                                                                                                                        
>

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103703
From: buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck)
Subject: Re: Questions about insurance companies (esp. Geico)

wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>My car was recently destroyed in a hail storm.  [...]
>I fully expected to get jerked around by the insurance company.
>I wasn't the only one who had hail damage.  State Farm
>opened its claim centers on evenings and weekends, and flew down
>additional adjusters from Dallas.

i have no experience with State Farm, but i think it's important to
differentiate your experience from a typical "accident."

hail damage is clearly not the fault of the owner, and also tends to
be well publicized in the media, so it's to the ins. co.'s benefit
to respond promptly and helpfully.  damage like this doesn't imply
anything about the likelihood of future claims (unless you live in an
area that gets frequent damaging hail storms), so there's no reason
for them to stop covering you.
that's a lot different from at-fault accidents or theft-related claims,
which may be more indicative of claim patterns.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103704
From: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com (Antonio L. Balsamo (Save the wails))
Subject: Re: Warped brake discs on '91 Taurus L


From: bsw@utrc.utc.com (Bruce S. Winters)
Subject: Re: Warped brake discs on '91 Taurus L

   >In the past few years I have owned 3 Mustang GTs and now own a 91 T-Bird
   >SC.  They all have had this problem. There was a recall on the T-bird for
   >the brake problem. The Ford dealer replaced the rotors and pads but the
   >rotors warp after about 10K miles. Between this problem and the fit and
   >finish problems on the T-Bird I'll never buy a Ford again.

       I just had my rotors on my '92 Taurus GL changed less than 500 miles
   ago and...you guessed it, I'm noticing slight warpage in the left rotor.
   :-(  I had a mechanic friend of mine look at it and he said that there is a
   high spot on the rotor that is causing the problem.  This is a brand new
   rotor bought from a Ford Dealership.  Can't they even produce a brand new
   rotor that is not warped?  I'm currently negotiating with them to swap it
   out for a new rotor.

       This is my first American build car and I'm not overly impressed.

   Tony
--

            +--------------------------------------------------+
            |   Name: Antonio L. Balsamo             /_/\/\    |
            |Company: Digital Equipment Corp.        \_\  /    |
            |         Shrewsbury, Mass.              /_/  \    |
            | Work #: (508) 841-2039                 \_\/\ \   |
            | E-mail: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com       \_\/   |
            +--------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103705
From: pwe@slipknot.mit.edu (Paul W. Emery)
Subject: V4 engines

On the subject of the V4,Ford in the UK used V4 engines exstensively in
their Ford Transit vans.This brings back a memory from the seventies.I
played in a band at the time and for something like 180 pounds four of
us bought a 1967 "tranny" to cart the gear around in.It was in terrible
shape (cosmetically) because it's last owner was a pig farmer.We spent
days cleaning it up and putting in a partition and more seating but 'til
the day it died everytime you turned on the fan to the defroster dried
pig shit came flying out the vents!!!.
    Back to the engine if I remember right it was a 1600cc V4 and that
thing could haul,we could fill it with equipment and up to 8 people and
it went like a bat out of hell,of course there were no pollution controls
on the engine and the gas was leaded and higher octane than we get now.
    When the mechanical fuel pump quit we put in an electric one from a 
Morris Minor that worked great. Ah fond memories.



-- 
pwe@slipknot.mit.edu                 "I'd like to own a squadron of tanks"
Paul W. Emery                       Ron Nasty--The Rutles
M I T Magnet Lab Cambridge Mass U.S.A.   
COSTELLOBEATLESSPINALTAPFAWLTYTOWERSMUTTSAVENGERSSTARTREK.TNGENGLANDRUTLES  

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103706
From: pzh@aeg.dsto.gov.au (Paul Heuer)
Subject: Re: Lemon Law -- Does anyone know the law?

kchupp@kchupp (Kevin Chupp) writes:


>My father is have lots of problems with a 2 year old van.  What is the
>lemon law?  What should he do if he qualifies?

Talk to Philip Greenspun. He took Ford to court recently and, despite much
manouvering and trickery on Ford's part, he won! Well, actually I think
Ford settled out of court on the provision he shut his mouth and stopped 
causing them trouble. I love it when the little guy wins. I don't have
Philip's address anymore, but a "Philip, where are you" call may bring him
out of hiding.

Cheers,
Paul.
-- 
Paul Heuer           | Phone  : +61 8 259 6453 | Avionics Technology - DSTO
pzh@aeg.dsto.gov.au  | FAX    : +61 8 259 5507 | PO Box 1500, Salisbury
                                               | South Australia, 5108

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103707
From: sar28@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Stuart Alexander Ridgway)
Subject: Re: MR2 seats for sale

In article <1993Apr26.193657.10019@ultb.isc.rit.edu> adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>In article <1993Apr26.155800.29900@noao.edu>, groves@noao.edu (Lee Groves) writes:
>>
>>As the owner of an MR2, and having several friends who own them,
>>I am very uncomfortable when I see an ad like this. 
>>   ...
>>When these seats are seen for sale, they are *most often* stolen.
>>So it would be nice to see a statement saying where they came from.
>>   ...
>>I'll give this seller the benefit of the doubt, but people should be
  ^^^  ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^^
>>aware the the vast majority of MR2 seats on the market--especially
>>those that are in Celicas--are stolen.
>>
>I am the original owner of the seats and the original poster. 
> 
>I take VERY serious offence in your statement. 
Me thinks thee dost protest too much....  1/2 :-)
> ....
>Please in the future think before you make allegations like the above.

He made no allegations, and specifically gave the seller the benefit of the
doubt.  He simply made the net aware of the fact that many of these seats are
stolen, so watch out and ask questions when buying.  That's good advice to
follow when buying _anything_ from a third party, on the net or elsewhere.
>It hurts.
Touchy, touchy...
>Mike.S

-- Alex Ridgway


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103708
From: jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <1993Apr22.192652.3032@virginia.edu> jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blade Runner") writes:
>I just have got to remind all of you that this is it!  Yes,
>that's right, somtime this fall, Ford (the granddaddy of cars)
>will be introducing an all-new, mega-cool
>way-too-fast-for-Accord-drivers Mustang.  It's supposed to be
>100% streamlined, looking similar to the Mach III concept car
>Ford came out with around January.  I can't wait.  Anyone out
>there hear anything about it recently?


If everything I've read is correct, Ford is doing nothing but "re-
skinning" the existing Mustang, with MINOR suspension modifications.
And the pictures I've seen indicate they didn't do a very good job
of it.  

The "new" mustang, is nothing but a re-cycle of a 20 year old car.

Jeff




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103709
From: blair@med.uvm.edu (Blair Robertson)
Subject: Re: service indicator of a BMW

dchan@cisco.com (Derek Chan) writes:
: 
: In article <1993Apr22.130721.4420@westminster.ac.uk>, jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
: |> Derek....
: |> 
: |> There is a tool available to reset the service indicator on BMWs but the lights
: |> will come back on after 2-3 weeks. The tool is in fact illegal (in Europe 
: |> atleast). It is often the case that the unsuspecting punter trots off to buy a 
: |> used BMW and a few weeks later, all the lights come on! Other than that, I know 
: |> of no other tool.... anyone else? 
: |> 
: Shaz,
: 
: Hmm.. but the service indicators that I have works this way:
:   There are 5 green,1 yellow, 1 red indicators.
:   initially all green indicators will be on for few minutes when you start
:   your car. The computer will actually "sense" how you drive your car and
:   as time goes by the green indicators will start to go off one by one and
:   then the yellow indicator will turn on and then the red indicator will go
:   on. And you should get service when by the time green indicators are off.
:   
:   After service the mechanic(or you) will reset the service indicators and the
:   computer starts counting again.
: 
: So I expect to have a tool(or a procedure) to reset it so the green lights will 
: come on and the yellow and red lights will go off.
: 
: I wonder how people can do oil change themself without knowing how to reset the
: indicator.
: 
: It's the first european car I have and changing oil at 15,000 miles is a 
: surprise to me. and it's a big plus :-). But I wonder how that could happen
: since the oil lose its lubrication ability over time, I thought it's the oil and
: not the vehicle that determines how often we should change oil.
: 
: Any BMW owner on the net? Response welcomed.
: 
: PS.  my initial question is "how do you seset the service indicator of a BMW"
: 
: Derek 

There is a perfectly legal tool available to reset the Bimmer service lights.
It will cost you 45$ from a mailorder, and buying one far outweighs
the possible consequences of destroying all the electronics if you try
di it yourself. 
You wonder how people do an oil change without knowing how it reset.
Why is reseting so important? The only reason for doing
it is stop the annoyance of a red light staring at you. 
Forget this 'in european cars you only need to change the oil every
15000' crap. Anyone serious about keeping their engine in good shape, and
extending its life, will change it every 3000, (inc filter). Don't wait
for the servive lights to come on before servicing the car. 
I bought a bmw about 6 months ago, it had 3 green lights on. I have changed
the oil every 3000, completly flushed brake fliud, changed all filters(oil,
air and fuel, changed transmission and drive oils
and done almost all of the other things req for service 1
and a service 2. After nearly 6000 miles, I am still on 2 green lights.
After a winter in Burlington (and it is snowing today!!) that is not bad.

Good luck!  

Blair

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blair E. Robertson		             A New Zealander in Vermont
University of Vermont		             posting his own ideas.........
Medical Research Facilty
Smooth Muscle Ion Channel Group
Colchester 
Vermont 05446-2500
email blair@northpole.med.uvm.edu
Telephone: (802) 656-8930
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103710
From: jamesl@galaxy.nsc.com (James Lu x3702)
Subject: How good is car wash wax?


QUESTION: what's your experience with car wash wax?

This is the liquid type of wax in bottles that you pour it in
water, sponge it on you car, hose it off, and dry it with cloth.
Many people have used it. It is very easy to work with and gives
seeminly the same visual results as that of paste type of wax.

But, does it last long? Does it have any negative effects to car
paint?

Can you forward your reply directly to my email id? Thanks.

James


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103711
From: mrice@mozart.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Mark W. Rice)
Subject: Re: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO

In article <24326.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us> david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds)  writes:
>
>GK>Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse.  The shifter
>GK>refuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to
>GK>get it into gear.  I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple
>GK>of months.
>
>Enter 1st, wait 2-3 seconds and then go into reverse.  They use the same
>synchros, and you'll never (at least I haven't) ground-em-to-fit when using
>this technique.

Or do like the manual says and put it in 3rd first, then you can quickly
go into reverse... no waiting.

mark
-- 
-- mark rice   803-791-6361    mark.rice@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM     My views.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103712
From: walkerr@aspen.WPI.EDU (Robert A Walker)
Subject: Re: BRONCOS


>Does anybody have any information on the second generation Broncos? (I'm
>not talking about Bronco II's, I'm referring to the Broncos that began
>production in 1978 based on the F-150 chassis I believe)

	Ahh Broncos.  Well personally, I have a '78.  The blue book is just
a hair over 3 grand.  I bought it for 2500 and then bought new tires 650
front end rebuild 350, carb rebuild 130.  Then i did the unthinkable
and blew the engine (not bronco specific, unmaintained engine with 168,000)
2400 more bucks there, now it is in nice condition, well after new seats out
of a t-bird, radio, 2 amps, speakers, alarm, well the radio and amps were 
free and i bought the speakers used for 40 bucks, and the other speakers
i took out of my old jeep (Sell a Jeep for a bronco you might ask,
but it was a Wagoneer).  Its a lovely specimen, solid front and rear
axels, ford 9" and a dana 44 up front.  Watch the rear axel wrap, i 
busted off my u-bolts ONCE, i added traction shocks after that and 
haven't had a problem since.  Also the bottom of the doors tend to 
rot, bottom of the tailgates likes to rust right up to the new ones
that might be in your budget.  The post 80 broncos have that sickly
TTB front end and little stamped and folded steel radius arms were
as the 78-79 have nice big cast iron longer radius arms(ie more prspective
wheel travel).  The only rust i have is on my doors and a few
dings in the sheet metal.  I don't know when the removeable tops were
discontinued but they are fun.  I just ordered a full convertable top
for 400$ for mine(credit card).  Don't ever break the window if you
have the double laminated bronzed privacy glass in your cap it is over
400 bucks to replace.  My bronco also does pretty good offroad,
i haven't bottomed out my suspension, YET, and have crossed over
3 foot deep of water with no problems, handles rocks like a charm too.
One problem is it is WIDE and you sometimes can't follow a CJ or a
Toyota, between two rocks or trees, and your grandmother will have
a hard time getting up into it.

BOB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103713
From: mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu (Mark Walker)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

In article <1993Apr22.133415.21443@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, sjcostan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Scott J Costanzo) writes:
>...  He was as smooth as silk. It was
>the most amazing shifting demonstration I've ever seen! Having said all that I 
>still don't know why anyone would want to shift a synchronized tranny without a
>clutch? Why do it?

Ego Trip...

-- 
Mark Walker			| My old man always said:
mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu	|	"Too much is just right!"
505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)	| Guess that applies to my preferences
Albuquerque, NM			| in performance cars.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103714
From: mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu (Mark Walker)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting

In article <93112.103631LRR105@psuvm.psu.edu>, <LRR105@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>I HAVE, THEY SHOWED THE FOOT CAM AND TELEMETRY FOR RUSTY WALLACE SHIFTING AT AT
>LANTA LAST YEAR AND HE NEVER TOUCHED THE CLUTCH EXCEPT VERY SLIGHTLY WHEN DOWN
>SHIFTING - 700 HP IS PRETTY POWERFUL TO ME

I doubt his trans uses standard syncros.  There are several mechanisms for
coupling a gear with the transmission output shaft, some of which are fine
for racing and unsuitable for street use.

-- 
Mark Walker			| My old man always said:
mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu	|	"Too much is just right!"
505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)	| Guess that applies to my preferences
Albuquerque, NM			| in performance cars.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103715
From: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti

In article <AfqzkhS00iV1E2YIss@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph D. Mazza" <mazz+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>BTW, I just saw the new Q45 on TV this weekend.  The big changes: a
>GRILLE has been added (looks nice, too!), and some WOOD for the
>interior.  Otherwise, it looked largely unchanged. 

They changed the lights and slope of the hood, along with the new
grille.  Otherwise, it is unchanged.

Interestingly, their lack of wood and lack of a grille was a BIG
design statement... they tried to defy conventional wisdom and carve
their own niche ... unfortunately, sales were only half those of the
LEXUS and hence, they now join the pack.  I still wonder if much of
the problem wasn't the slow start from the initial AD campaign.

Personally, I like the Q without the Grille.
-- 
Steve Morris, M.A.    : Internet: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu
Addiction Studies Pgm : uucp    :{uw-beaver,uunet!gtenmc!dataio}!sumax!smorris
Seattle University    : Phone   : (206) 296-5350 (dept) or 296-5351 (direct)
Seattle, WA 98122_____:________________________________________________________

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103716
From: pbhandar@tsegw.tse.com (Parminder Bhandari)
Subject: Info about Audi 90 (used)

I am thinking of buying a used Audi 90 Auto.

These cars look good and Audi do have a good rep. for these cars in Europe
(where I'm from).

I was just wondering if there anything about these cars that I should know.

--Parms.



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103717
From: pbhandar@tsegw.tse.com (Parminder Bhandari)
Subject: Question about Integra Auto box


I'm new to this group and this may have been discussed already, in which case
my apologies, but...

I have a '92 Integra with an auto box. According to the manual the car has
a lock up torque converter, or something similar.

What is it, what does it do and how does it work?

(Excuse my ignorance).

Does anybody know?

--Parms.

(no sig yet)


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103718
From: pbhandar@tsegw.tse.com (Parminder Bhandari)
Subject: New Integra for '94?

I've heard *unconfirmed* rumours that there is a new Integra being released
for '94.

Does anybody have any info on this?

The local sales people know as much as I can throw them.

--Parms.

(still no sig).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103719
From: mhembruc@tsegw.tse.com (Mattias Hembruch)
Subject: Re: Driver's Seat "best cars of the year"

tomh@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) writes:


>The Golf also won AJAC's (Automobile Journalists' Association of Canada)
>1993 Car of the Year award.

And unless I am mistaken (I screwed up my borrowed VCR and got the first 2
minutes :-), the Corrado SLC was awarded AJAC's Sports (Sporty?) Car of the
Year..

Mattias

>-- 
>[ /tom haapanen -- tomh@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
>[       "stick your index fingers into both corners of your mouth.  now pull ]
>[          up.  that's how the corrado makes you feel."  -- car, january '93 ]
-- 
Mattias Hembruch
>> My views do not necessarily reflect those of the TSE. <<
E-mail: mhembruc@tse.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103720
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: RFI: Art of clutchless shifting


In a previous article, lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) says:

>In article <93112.103631LRR105@psuvm.psu.edu> <LRR105@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>I'm not familiar with the trannies used in Winston Cup, but in the trans-am
>cars I've played with the  transmissions were the racing variety, with
>dog clutches instead of sychros.  In a transmission with dog clutches, the
>gears are always  engaged with each other and moving the dog clutches
>engages the gears to the shafts.  Motorcycle transmissions are the same way.
>Shifting without the clutch on a transmission with syncros can and will cause
>transmission damage, the only question being how long it  takesto grenade
>something (for the trans in my 87  Pulsar SE, it was  about 3-5k miles, but
>it had a weak  tranny in the first place).

just out of curiosity, how is this "dog clutch" any different from a synchro
transmission.  What you described SOUNDS the same to me.  In fact, what little
i've studied on trannies, the instructor referred to the synchros as "dogs"
and said they were synonymous.  The gears are always meshed in a synchronized
gearbox, and you slip the synchro gears back and forth by shifting. Or at least,
that is what i was taught.  Explain, por favour?

thanx
DREW
ps email's fine if this is inappropriate for here, or if i'm the only bonhead
who doesn't know the diff.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103721
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?


In a previous article, finnegan@nrlssc.navy.mil () says:

>In article <Apr22.202724.24131@engr.washington.edu>
>eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
>>
>>the subarus all use 180 degree vees in their engines..  :-)
>>
>>
>>eliot
>
>Wouldn't that make them an I4?  Or would they 
>really be an _4 (henceforth referred to as
>"underscore 4")?

i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103722
From: goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL)
Subject: Which radar detector should I buy?

I just entered the market for a Radar Detector and am looking for
any & all advice/recommendations/warnings/etc from anyone in 
this group.

Email is preferred.

Thanks.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103723
From: antkasx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (K A Sturrock)
Subject: Re: Viper Car Alarms

u1815@cs.uiuc.edu (Ronald E Garnett) writes:

Ron> Viper also sells some fancy field disturbance sensor that
Ron> supposedly detects people approcahing the car....

Ron

If your Viper system were tuned like a neighbor's is you wouldn't get
any sleep because of the damn thing waking every one in the neighborhood
up.

We all used to try to ignore the alarm, but have now made a pact to
bombard the house with night-time visits and phone calls when ever we
are awakened because some thunder storm passed over the next county
or a stray dog looked at the car.

Car alarms are a serious pain-in-the-ass!

						-ks

p.s. Real men don't have car radios since the exhaust is too loud to
     hear it anyway <GRIN>!
-- 

_________________________________________________________________________
K A Sturrock * Anthropology * Georgia State University * ksturroc@gsu.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103724
From: cadiz@rtsg.mot.com (Jay Cadiz)
Subject: GTS Headlight Covers

I have a 90 Eagle Talon and I wanted a pair of GTS 
Headlight covers.  Actually, they are turning signal
covers since the Talons that year had pop-up lights.
I went to a auto shop and bought the tail-light 
blackouts for $45, but they did not have the turning
signal covers in stock.  I asked how much it would be
and he told me it would cost me another $40.  I thought
this was a bit high for two small pieces of plastic.
Can anyone find me a cheaper pair or even a used one?


Jay Cadiz
cadiz@marble.rtsg.mot.com
Motorola, Inc.
Arlington Heights, IL

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103725
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?


In a previous article, Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE (Thomas Tornblom) says:

>In article <1993Apr21.191744.3072@ole.cdac.com> ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>
>     I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>   have v engines.
>
>   V4 - I don't know of any.
>   V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>
>VW Golf/Passat 2.8l VR6 (inline V6!), very narrow angle (11 deg?), one head.
                                                          ~~15

>Audi 80/100 2.6/2.8l V6
>
>   V8 - Don't know of any.
>
>Audi V8 3.6/4.2l
>Some MBs
>Some BMWs
>
>   V12 - Jaguar XJS
>BMW 750/850
>MB *600*
>
>    Please add to the list.
>
>
>    Thanks,
>    -S
>    ssave@ole.cdac.com
>--
>Real life:      Thomas Trnblom           Email:  Thomas.Tornblom@Nexus.Comm.SE
>Snail mail:     Communicator Nexus AB     Phone:  +46 18 171814
>                Box 857                   Fax:    +46 18 696516
>                S - 751 08 Uppsala, Sweden
>

DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103726
From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
Subject: Re: Manual Xmission-Advice needed...

 I don't think that a transmission fluid change will solve your problem.
 Unless you are in an extremely cold climate and using a very heavy weight
 fluid.  Follow the manufacturer's recommended oil weight.  Some of the
 cars I have had (all standard transmissions 4 or 5 speeds) recommend
 changing the transmission fluid at 30,000 miles under normal driving
 conditions.  I've gone 100,000 without changing the transmission oil (and
 had to replace the transmission bearings!). My older cars used 85 weight
 oil whereas my 92 Honda uses 10-30 motor oil (or maybe 30 weight).

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103727
From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
Subject: Re: Changing brake fluid..is it necessary..

I agree with Jeff's reply.  I've never changed the brake fluid except when
having a brake job, which is usually at around 80,000 miles (alot of
freeway driving).  However, I will start to do this as preventative
maintenance on my new car.  Also, there are brake system flushing agents
that can be used but the problem is that if any of the agent is left in the
system, it can cause problems, so it's been recommended NOT to use them unless
you are 100% certain that you can remove all of the flushing agent.  Just for
your info, I was quoted a price of: labor=$29.95 and fluid=$9.95 for
flushing the brake system; this in conjunction with a break job so I don't
know if it was more without the brake job. This is in the S.F Bay Area.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103728
From: jimb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (James Bruder)
Subject: Re: Vibration when brakes are applied

Hi Javier, (how are things at Corp, my old stomping ground was c-level?)
Vibration when applying the brakes can be caused, on disc brakes at least,
by warped rotors. When the brakes are applied, there results uneven pressure
on the rotor.  Turning the rotors by a brake shop will remedy this problem
as long as there is enough rotor width left for turning (i.e. within spec).
There could be some possible front end suspension problem but a brake shop
should be able to confirm warped rotors by a visual inspection which is free.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103729
From: wen-king@cs.caltech.edu (Wen-King Su)
Subject: Re: Mercury Villager Minivan -- good buy?

In article <1r7cr2INNvar@sumax.seattleu.edu> smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris) writes:
>The Villager-Quest seem like the best of the Cravan/Voyager copies to
<come along since the Mazda MPV.  The NISSAN MAXIMA engine paired with
>the MAXIMA 4 speed Auto Trans should be an excellent drive train, and
<the rest of the vehicle seems well engineered.  Only the price is
>controversial.

Hmm.  The last time I checked, Villager/Quest does not have a Maxima
engine, and is very much under powered for its weight.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103731
From: chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry)
Subject: Re: V4 engines

In article <1993Apr23.183318.4635@ll.mit.edu> singer@ll.mit.edu (Matthew R. Singer) writes:
>Didn't the Saab Sonnett have a V4? I recall someone telling that it was
>something like 1/2 of a Ford 289.

Not only the Sonett (correct spelling), but the 95 wagon and 96 sedan
used a 1500 cc or 1700 cc V-4 from Ford of Germany.  This particular
motor had a 60 degree vee angle, a balance shaft and siamesed exhaust
ports.  This motor was later stretched into the V-6 commonly seen in the
Capri.

The V-4 could make pretty reasonable power for its size.  But in the
Saab, it made too much torque for the transmission, which had been
designed for a 3-cylinder 2-stroke.

 -- Chuck Fry, former Sonett III owner


-- 
		  Chuck Fry  chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov
			 [this space for rent]
	  I alone bear responsibility for the claptrap above.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103732
From: kmac@cisco.com (Karl Elvis MacRae)
Subject: Ford Explorer question, and SUV review.


	Ok, so in my ongoing search for a sport utility, here's the latest;


Toyota 4runner:

	 Small. Small Small Small. The interior of this vehical is impossible
	for a large person. Too bad; it would have been the winner otherwise.

Nissan Pathfinder:
	
	Very low ceiling. My head hit the roof, Fun on bumps, no? Also has
	a cheap-looking interior.

Isuzu Trooper:

	Class act. This is a really, really nice vehical. Very comfortable,
	handled ok. Has really cool grab handles EVERYWHERE. But it's huge,
	and the engine is a bit too small for it's bulk; also the manual shift is 
	weird and kind of awkward. I'd buy this if it were $3k cheaper or 10"
	shorter. But at this size and for this price, no. I kept picturing trying to 
	park in in San Francisco. No Thanks.


Chevy Blazer:

	Cheap looking. Small. Not as small as the Toyota and Nissan, but still 
	too small.

Ford Explorer:

	This is no sports car, and it's certainly not for the serious off roader.
	But it's big enough to be comfortable without being as huge and heavy as the
	trooper. It's engine has plenty of power for everyday driving, though it would
	be nice if it had a *bit* more. The automatic tranny is pretty nice; head and
	shoulders above my '90 mazda MPV. The steering is not as tight as I'd like,
	but it's acceptable. The two door has easy-to-enter back seats (Easier to get
	into, in fact, than the driver's seat of the 4runner!) and with a 10" shorter
	wheelbase and the easier availability of a manual tranny, (Yes, I'm a manual 
	shift biggot, I admit it...) it's the one I'm thinking of buying. 


	So, that said, is there anyone out there who has one of these and hates it?
	Anyone had any major problems? Heard any horror stories? 

	Also, any reason to buy the ford over the mazda Navajo, both being essentially
	the same vehical?


			Thanks-


	-Karl
 
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Karl Elvis MacRae	Software Release Support	Cisco Systems
  kmac@cisco.com -or- batman@cisco.com     415-688-8231   DoD# 1999  FJ1200
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
	      "Shovels and rakes and implements of destruction"
						-Arlo Guthrie

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103733
From: cm@cci632.cci.com (Carl Mercer)
Subject: Corvette car cover for sale

I'm not sure if this made it out so i'll try again.

I have an Ecklar's (sp?) Corvette car cover for sale.  The cover is canvas
on the outside and felt on the inside.  It is weather proof and in great
condition.  I'm asking $95.00 and I'll pay shipping.  (originally $175.00
in October of 1992).

                                        Carl Mercer
                                        cm@cci.com
                                        (716) 359-0895 evening
                                        (716) 654-2652 day

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103734
From: pp29616@dcl-nextsc.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Park)
Subject: Re: New Integra for '94?

In article <C63ypt.47D@tsegw.tse.com> pbhandar@tsegw.tse.com (Parminder  
Bhandari) writes:
> I've heard *unconfirmed* rumours that there is a new Integra being  
released
> for '94.
> Does anybody have any info on this?
> The local sales people know as much as I can throw them.
> --Parms.
> (still no sig).

here we go again...
now these are just rumors.. so dont quote me.

New Integra supposedly wedge shaped again.  175 hp and all-wheel drive
in top models.  Then a variant called the zx-r comes later. (roadster?).

i think it gets unveiled at end of summer.

Nothing about an airbag was mentioned, but im sure it'll have one.
along with a nice hefty increase in sticker... ???

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103735
From: dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <1993Apr16.162950.25849@newsgate.sps.mot.com> rapw20@email.sps.mot.com writes:
>
>before you go in. Find out the invoice prices of the car, add a reasonable  
>profit for the dealer ($200-$300??), offer them that price and stick to  
>it.

Whoa!  Watch your terminology.  "Dealer invoice" is *not* "dealer cost".
You'll hear lots of ads screaming "two dollars over dealer invoice!!!"
Sounds like a real deal, huh?  No.  You know what the "dealer invoice"
(also called factory invoice) is?  It's a piece of paper with numbers
on it that the factory sends the dealer.  What do the numbers
signify?  Absolutely nothing.  It's a marketing gimmick that the
salesman can wave in your face to impress you.  Note that nowhere
on the "invoice" does it claim to be the real price of the car, and
most ads which mention dealer invoice will end with a very fast,
low voice saying something like "invoice may not reflect actual
dealer cost".  Actually, I *guarantee* it does not reflect actual
dealer cost.

Also, the reasonable profit for dealer is usually around three percent.
Adjust according to the dealer cost of the car and any options that
you want.  Haggle like hell with the salesman over the cost of
"dealer prep" and "protection package" (i.e. a few squirts of
paint and fabric protectant).  While you're at it, ask the salesman
to toss in a thing or two that doesn't cost him any cash.  My 
wife and I got a joyride in a twin-turbo Mitsubishi 3000GT when
we bought our Mitsubishi mini-van.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103736
From: newman@cps.msu.edu (Timothy S Newman)
Subject: Ford Probe, Import Car of the Year


Okay, okay, I know the Ford Probe is made in the US, in fact it's
made in Michigan, at a Mazda plant.  My question: are most of the parts
from American or Japanese sources?  I have been told that most of the US
assembly plants for Japanese automakers import almost all of the parts used in
the vehicles.

Any information anyone has on this will be appreciated!

Tim Newman
newman@cps.msu.edu



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103737
From: behanna@syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector

In article <1993Apr26.150614.27597@westminster.ac.uk> jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas) writes:
>Hi - now that we have these GATSO photo speed traps here, I was wondering if 
>anyone knows if radar detectors are capable of detecting photo cameras? If
>not, are there any other devices which will? 

	Yup.  Radar detectors that detect Ka band will pick up photo radar
as it's reflected from some poor slob ahead of you that just got nailed.

	BTW, many photo radar installations in the southern U.S. became
targets for high-powered rifles, or had their lenses "decorated" with cow
flop, etc.  Not that I'm advocating destruction of public property, but you
get the picture....

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103738
From: CPB004@email.mot.com (Philip Bush)
Subject: Re: Plug wires -- Do they really need replacement?

In article <1rgvv2$am4@haven.umd.edu>, vadik@cs.umd.edu (Vadim Maslov)
wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi, netters
> 
> I went to "All Tune and Lube" for routine maintenance
> and they said I need to change plug wires because
> they are original ones and "you driven 70+ K miles on them".
> I had a strong suspicion that they just wanted to make money.
> Wires had no visible defects and my repair manual doesn't
> recommend any scheduled maintenance for them.
> 
> Is it "plain vanilla" rip off? 
> Or there can be some backing behind 
> their suggestion to replace wires?
> 
> I have Ford Taurus 86.
> 
> 
> Vadim Maslov.


I once had a sparking problem with my '65 Mustang, and simply changing
the spark plug wires fixed it.

/===============================================================\
| Philip Bush                      |     National Champion      |
| Motorola, Inc., Schaumburg, IL   |    SHO Convention Show     |
| Email: CPB004@email.mot.com      |    3rd Place - Concours    |
| Phone: (708) 576-3175            |           Judged           |
\===============================================================/

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103739
From: johnn@eskimo.com (John Navitsky)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe - Opinions? (centered around the GT)

In article <...> heiser@acs2.bu.edu (Bill Heiser) writes:
>In article <...> chuck@eos.ncsu.edu (Chuck Kesler) writes:
>>>"Jeremy G. Mereness" <zonker+@CMU.EDU> says:

>>>>Can anyone offer any opinions of the Ford Probe... ala how they do in
>>>>the long run, repair records, reliability, mileage, etc?

I've found mine ('93 Probe GT) to do quite well.  

[window problem deleted, artical has been trimmed]

>I have had my Probe looked at twice by my local dealer (where I purchased
>the car) ... the first time, they made this problem worse.  The second time,
>after advising them of the service bulletin mentioned on my ford-probe mailing
>list (they said they didn't know of the bulletin), they adjusted the window and
>made it *much* better.  However it now makes a "scritch scritch" noise on rough
>roads, and *still* squeals when I open/close the window in wet weather (anyone
>elses's do this?)

I've not had any of the air or leakage problems that have been reported but
do get the squeal that Bill describes.  I live in Seattle so the wet weather
may be a factor.

>>>Ford only gives 1 key with the car.  C'mon Ford, spend an extra few pennies!

If I recall correctly I got two keys.

>>>horn buttons behind air bag in spokes and not in 
>>>center (personal preference)

>"you've-got-to-position-the-fingers-perfectly-to-make-it-beep" buttons are
>TERRIBLE.

This is true.  I'm wondering if this may be a safety concern.  IE, if people
pound on the place where the airbag lives...

>>Speaking of the horn, I was surprised to find that the Probe comes with one
>>of those nice 'merican sounding horns instead of the Japanese sounding kind.
>>The previous Probes had Japanese horns.

No opinion.

>>>transmission (the 5 speed is a must)

>I have always been a 5-speed guy.  Almost every car I've ever owned has been
>a 5-speed.  Because I got a good deal on this car with the 2500 miles, I
>(knowingly) overlooked the fact that it has an automatic.  But it is a pretty
>high-tech automatic.  It is a fully electronicaly controlled 4-speed with

The 5 speed is much more fun.  We opted for the automatic for a number of
reasons but it's still fun, and in some ways more practical.

>>>No shake/rattle noises when going over bumps/potholes (still!)

Ditto.

>Shakes and rattles has been my main gripe.  I've gotten them to fix the
>worst of them, but I fear that with the rather harsh ride, the car will
>be a virtual potpouri of rattles when it gets older.

I too would suspect that this may be true.

>>>Tires: 225/55VR16 Goodyear Eagles (70% left; hoping for 30K :-)

>very very very well.  It sticks to the road like glue, even on a rough
>surface.

Yes!

>>interior is very, very nice too.  Very pleasing to the eye, and ergonomically
>>sound.

>Definitely.  Ford/Mazda did a very very nice job on this one.  The
>car has a "much more expensive than it actually is" look and feel to it.

Ditto.

>>Yes, this car's stiff suspension isn't for everyone.  I personally like it,
>>but if you find it a little harsh but otherwise like the car, I'd strongly
>>suggest looking into the MX-6.

Agree. Check it out.  I don't mind it but would say that if it was much 
stiffer it might be a problem.  (How about the '93 R1 RX-7 for suspension?!) 

>Well I wouldn't encourage passenger-carrying in the Probe unless the
>person in the front seat likes to sit with his knees to the dash.  As
>mentioned in the Consumer Reports write-ups, "consider the back seat
>as a parcel shelf".  No biggie to me though (if it had been, I'd not
>have bought the car!  (but it's definitely not a family car)).

True.  

>>>I've heard that the exhaust system has trouble, but mine works fine.

>>I haven't heard about this one.  I know that some of the very early Probes
>>('89 and maybe '90) had problems with prematurely rusting mufflers (which

I've had this problem and read about it.  (or at least I assume the one
I had was the one I read about :-).  In any case what happened was the
weld between the muffler and the pipe feeding it (ok, so I'm not a mechanic)
broke.  In my case the dealer welded it, ordered replacement parts and
put them on when they got them.  I suspect this is some sort of 1) design
flaw, or 2) production flaw.  In any case I have an earlier model and would
expect it to be worked out on newer ones.  In any case it is a warrantee
repair.  (or they get the keys back!)

>>From what I've heard, it sounds like Ford/Mazda had some QC problems with 
>>the Probe (and probably MX-6) when they first went into production, but 
>>I think these problems have mostly been corrected at this point.  That's
>>almost always to be expected with a completely new car like this, though.

>I have to agree that they seem to have some QC problesm.  But I seriously
>feel the car design is sound, and expect it to do very well.

I second this.  There seems to be some things that slipped through but the
car seems very sound.  While not perfection (what is) you get an awful
lot for your money.

>-- 
>Bill Heiser    heiser@acs.bu.edu, heiser@world.std.com
>               Boston University, Boston MA   

BTW, Bill has a Probe mailing list.  You might want to subscribe to it if 
you are interested in more detail.  Try request-ford-probe@world.std.com
(did I get that right?  never can remember if the request goes on the
front or the back :-)

-- 
 ,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,
 ,`,`John Navitsky`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`johnn@eskimo.com,`,`,`,
 ,`,`Exercise a right today,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,
 ,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103740
From: Sam Swett <ssbc+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO

Excerpts from rec.autos: 26-Apr-93 Re: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Tauru.. by Mark
W. Rice@mozart.Colu 
> In article <24326.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>
david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (Dav
> id Bonds)  writes:
> >
> >GK>Occasionally, I have trouble shifting into reverse.  The shifter
> >GK>refuses to enter the gate, and I often grind the synchros trying to
> >GK>get it into gear.  I'll be watching this carefully in the next couple
> >GK>of months.
> >
> >Enter 1st, wait 2-3 seconds and then go into reverse.  They use the same
> >synchros, and you'll never (at least I haven't) ground-em-to-fit when using
> >this technique.
>  
> Or do like the manual says and put it in 3rd first, then you can quickly
> go into reverse... no waiting.

One more way, which works in manual trans cars I've driven, and it is my
personal favorite (the other suggestions above are great, but try this
one, too).  

While pushing the shifter *gently* towards reverse, let the clutch out
slowly (right to the friction point) and the shifter will be pulled into
position. If you do it right, the car won't jump backward, nor will the
gears grind.... You will just glide back.

-sam

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103741
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: Viper Car Alarms

mcrosbie@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:

>In article <C605Fr.CDo@cs.uiuc.edu>, u1815@cs.uiuc.edu (Ronald E Garnett) writes:
>> Hello auto enthusiasts!
>> 

{Stuff Deleted}

>> Viper also sells some fancy field disturbance sensor that
>> supposedly detects people approcahing the car....
>> 

>This is primarily for convertibles.  I have a convertible and have looked at
>this feature in detail.  Alpine actually makes a better radar unit if you want
>to get one of these.  It has zones in it that can be shut down independently so
>that if one side of your car has pedestrian traffic or something else that
>would trigger an alarm, it shuts down the zone, or rather, pulls it in tighter.
>I don't see the real benefit to these unless you have a convertible that you
>leave the top down on.

>Avoid the voice alarm that can be added to the radar package.  It talks to
>people as they walk by.  I saw one installed on a Lotus Esprit.  The kids would
>taunt it seeing how close they could get before it 'warned' them to get back. 
>The owner finally disabled it, which defeats the purpose in my mind.

{Stuff Deleted}

>> Ron Garnett
>> 

{More Stuff Deleted}

>Merrill
	
	My neighbor runs a Viper(R) distributorship and installs them on all
Saturns sold in my area (Anne Arundel County, MD).  He has an SC with the
Viper voice alarm installed.  The alarm does everything, turn on the car, 
the radio, the heater, roll down windows, unlock the doors...  The alarm goes
off more frequently on hot days when a person walks by.  It gets sensitive up
to about 5 feet in 85degree heat.  It isn't as bad as convetional siren alarms,
because it doesn't continue to wail, it just says "Protected by Viper, please
stand back!"  And shuts up...  (mainly because the person walks away 
befuddled!!!")

			
-- 
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
*******SIG UNDER CONSTRUCTION HARD HAT AREA********

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103742
From: david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?

In article <1993Apr21.190251.14371@sequent.com> troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker) writes:
>
>Let me explain why I feel the "bogey" counter feature is a gimmick.
>Radar waves bounce off objects especially metal.  That is how radar
>speed measurement works.  A high frequency microwave (X band approx 10
>GHz and K is approx 24 GHz) is sent out and reflected back to the
>antenna off of an automobile or other objects.  If an object is moving
>a Doppler shift (about 34 Hz per MPH on X Band) occurs, is measured
>and converted to miles per hour.  These waves bounce all over the
>place and they can reflect many times and go in many directions.
>
>From what I understand the Valentine-1 can only tell if these
>microwaves are coming from the front, rear or both.  There are only
>two antennas.  If they are coming from both this in interpreted as a
>"side bogey".  Bogey counts are determined as sources by their
>relative strength to one another even if they are reflections of the
>same source.
>
I'm certainly no engineer and really have no scientific basis
on which to make this argument, but don't you answer your own
question?  Is the reflected signal "shifted" at all from the
act of being reflected?  If so, wouldn't it then be easy for
the detector to discriminate between reflections and direct
sources?

>Here is the problem.  Since the microwaves reflect, how does the unit
>tell if it is a "source" or a "reflection"?  Take a Valentine-1 and
>drive to the local grocery store that uses an X-Band radar door
>opener.  You can tell by the small black box above the door pointed
>down at about a 45 degree angle and your detector going off when it
>gets near.  The Valentine-1 will count 7 or 8 bogeys from all
>directions front, rear and sides (it doesn't say which side).  The
>count changes as cars drive by and reflections change.  Is there 7 or
>8 sources?  Not at the store I go to.  As I drive around with a
>standard detector I can only find one source and that is the door
>opener for the front door.
>
>Troy Wecker
>troy@sequent.com
>Sequent Computer Systems
>Beaverton, OR
-- 
David W. Hwang, M.D.                      [david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103743
From: david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us (David Hwang)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?

In article <1993Apr22.204921.12644@convex.com> tobias@convex.com (Allen Tobias) writes:
>In article <1993Apr21.190251.14371@sequent.com> troy@sequent.com (Troy Wecker) writes:
>>
>
>Each Valentine 1 is hand tuned to maximum performance is all the radar bands
>of coverage, this of course, adds to the labor cost and in turn the cost of the
>unit.
>
>I live in the backyard of the folks who make the Stalker radar system. The
>Valentine 1 has saved me many, many, many times from the stealth revenue
>enhancement traps of the local area. I have had all the major brand detectors,
>and, IMHO, nothing else even comes close to the V1!
>
>I don't work for Valentine, I am just a satisfied user of their unit!
>
>If you really want the nitty gritty details on all this, call the nice folks
>at Valentine Research. They will be more than happy to explain their 
>perspective on radar detection and analysis methods. 
>The calls free 1-800-331-3030.
>
>AT
>
It seems that there are more and more "bands" available for
police radar each month.  I have recently purchased (within
the last 8 months) the BEL 966STW.  While it is not a perfect
detector by any means, it does do the job fairly well.  

Now, however, I pick up a car magazine at the airport and
read about this Super Ka Wideband which is a superset of
the Ka Wideband that this latest generation of detectors
was touted as covering.  

So now BEL has a NEW series of detectors out that cover all
the usual bands (X, K, Ka photo, Ka wideband) as well as the
new Super Ka wideband.  

Just as there comes a point of diminishing returns when chasing
increased PC computing power with faster and faster CPUs (for
the average home consumer, at least), it seems that there is
now the same concern with radar detectors.  Does it make sense
to upgrade just 8 months after purchasing my "new" detector?
Is Valentine upgrading their equipment?  If so, it might be 
worth it for me to upgrade to the Valentine.  I was in the 
market for a Valentine when I purchased the BEL but the
3-4 month waiting time was just too much for me since I had
inadequate protection with my Passport.  Life was much simpler
when there was just X and K band and Escort has the best
equipment on the market and there was no need to continuously
shop for a new detector.  I hope that the flood of new radar 
bands ceases with this new Super Wideband business.
>
>                                  \|/
>                                #######
>                              / ~     ~ \
>                              |[0]---[0] |
>   ===============================| |===================================
>  _|___                           |_|        		    	    ___|_
> (_____) Allen Tobias           Technical    email:                (_____)
> (_____) Convex Computer Corp.  Marketing    tobias@convex.com     (_____)
> (_____) 3000 Waterview Parkway                                    (_____)
> (___)   Richardson, TX 75083                                        (___)
>   =====================================================================
>   "No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care!"
>


-- 
David W. Hwang, M.D.                      [david@ganglion.ann-arbor.mi.us]

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103744
From: homi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Sammy)
Subject: Car Tinting ?s

Hello again.

Anyone here done any tinting work.  What are the best brands out there?
How about applications...I heard there was a water based brand that s
you can move around, till it's just right, and you then let it dry like that.

Also I would consider having it professionally done, how much around
Wisconsin or Chcago area, that does a decent job, fairly cheap. (college kid)

Thanks for all the info...

Ps.  What is the maximum legal tint limit.

homi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103745
From: adam@microware.com (Adam Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Choice of gauges

In article <C5yBo4.E5I@vcd.hp.com> dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Gauge) writes:
>If you had free reign to design your own instrument cluster, which
>gauges would you choose to have beyond the basic set?

Oil Pressure, Oil Temperature
Coolant Temperature
Manifold Vacuum
Ammeter, Voltmeter

Fuel Pressure [maybe] (Problematic, since you either need an electronic
sensor/gauge pair or you have to mount the damn thing outside the car)

In addition, it'd be nice to have a big red idiot light 'Check Guages'
connected to Oil pressure, Oil Temp, Coolant Temp, Ammeter &
Voltmeter.  With heaps of guages, it's hard to look at them all all
the time.  In the case of oil pressure, for example, you want to know
right away if your oil pump goes bad, unlike coolant temperature, a
minute or two of 0 oil pressure would be A Very Bad Thing(tm).

Adam
-- 
Adam G.
adamg@microware.com, or ...!uunet!mcrware!adamg
The above is not to be construed in any way as the official or unofficial
statements of Microware, or any Microware employees.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103746
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: SUPER MEGA AUTOMOBILE SIGHTING(s)!!!!! Exotics together!

In article <C63xp2.KJB@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>In article <1r7f9qINNk24@phantom.gatech.edu> grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas) writes:
>>jmm4h@Virginia.EDU ("The Blade Runner") writes:
>>>sighting of such a fine beast.  But remember, the Mustang will
>>>forever be the true King of the Road.  

Especially the '68 Shelby-American GT-500KR (King of the Road, so named
to steal GM's planned Camaro King of the Road's thunder :-)

>>And maybe the Mustang
>>will be forever King of the Road, the GT-40 isn't road legal.
>
>I think the GT-40 actually _is_ street legal, although that particular
>question is moot (see the price figures below).

Some GT-40s are street legal, some aren't.

>>This car was right hand drive (weren't they all like that?). How much does
>>a GT-40 go for? How many were made?

I found my Shelby-American guide. There were a grand total 126 GT-40s
built:
		GT-40 Coupes		55
		GT-40 Road Cars		31
		GT-40 Mk II		13
		GT-40 Mk IIIs		 7
		GT-40 Roadsters		 5
		Mirages			 3
		GT-40 Mk IVs		12
		   	TOTAL:	       126
		Additional uncompleted Mk IIIs	6-12

Twelve of these cars were prototypes; 48 racing coupes; 31 road coupes;
eight Mk II coupes; 4 LHD Mk IIIs; and 3 RHD Mk IIIs. The other 
breakdowns follow the above list (eg, 12 were Mk IVs). The LHD/RHD
breakdown is only given on the Mk IIIs.

The prices (for those which can be bought) are around the $1 Million
mark, last I heard, with a projection of some $3.5 Million (or
thereabouts) in 2000. It was second only to some penny-ante Ferarri ;-).

Shelby won the FIA World Manufacturer's Cup with his Cobras in '65; that
was also the year that he retired them from the Shelby-American racing
team (in favor of the Ford GT program the next year). That victory
broke a 13(?) year Ferarri winning streak.

Well, there's lotsa info I could spout, but I'll refrain. Much of
this information comes from "Hot Rod" magazine's "Shelby American
Cobra/Mustang Guide," which has more info on the Shelby-American 
Fords than you could _ever_ want to know.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103747
From: zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski)
Subject: Re: Taurus/Sable rotor recall

Antonio L. Balsamo (Save the wails) (balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com) wrote:

: From: OPDBS@vm.cc.latech.edu
: Subject: Taurus/Sable rotor recall

:        My '92 Taurus GL with only 26k on the clock also has rotor warp.
:    Apparently they HAVEN'T fixed the problem yet.  But try convincing the Ford
:    service person to fix it for free...Right!!!

:    Tony


Gads, I have heard so many horror stories with Taurus and Sable cars!  I thought
these were premium American automobiles.  The way they sell, you'd think so.
Is Ford really no better than in the late '70s when it was turning out tin
cans like the Granada and the Fairmount?  Which would you get, a Taurus or 
a Camry or Accord?


John
zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu
zorro@astro.ocis.temple.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103748
From: rwf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT WILLIAM FUSI)
Subject: Re: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.

In article <1993Apr17.175451.30896@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (D
anny Phornprapha) writes:
>I have $30,000 as my budget.  I'm looking for a sports or GT car.
>
>What do you think would be the best buy?  (I'm looking for specific models)
>
>Thanks,
>Danny
>--
>
> I'd say an RX-7 would be RIGHT up there.  You could easily deal down to $30.
 It has some of the most impressive performance figures around, and automotive
 magazines eat it up.  One car to seriously consider in that price range.

                                                Rob Fusi
                                                rwf2@lehigh.edu

                                                
-- 

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103749
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: New Integra for '94?

In article <C63ypt.47D@tsegw.tse.com> pbhandar@tsegw.tse.com (Parminder Bhandari) writes:
>I've heard *unconfirmed* rumours that there is a new Integra being released
>for '94.

Well, you can just about set your watch by Honda releasing new models every
4 years and an upgrade half way through the cars life. The local acura
dealership tells me that the new Integra will be out very soon, i.e. May/June.

Its hard to find specific details as the Integra has been deleted from
most of the rest of the world - I have seen them in Canada and Australia
as well as the U.S. but it was discontinued after the first generation
in Europe. Normally you can see new Japanese models appear in Europe
or Japan first and extrapolate from there. C+D reported that the engine
would be a carryover I think.


Craig
>
>Does anybody have any info on this?
>
>The local sales people know as much as I can throw them.
>
>--Parms.
>
>(still no sig).



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103750
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <C5zzD8.1Kt@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
>Disclamer: this is not a flame.. if you anger easily please go on.
>>petebre@elof.iit.edu (BrentA. Peterson) writes:
>
>>The next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car.  It attracts
>>way more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage
>>is more embedded in the general public.  Don't lie to yourself and
>>believe Ford will forfeit that.
>
>FYI: they already did.

Oh, really. When?

>Too bad that the current Mustang can't even compete with the new
>Camaro without using an active imagination.

The '93 Mustang Cobra can. Check it out.

>Right now few cars can compare with the '93 Camaro, Think about it..
>20,000 for a car that will out perform all but a few exotics.
>If you are now swearing at me look at the stats...they don't lie.
> There are NO comparable cars in it's class, certinaly not for its price.

Ehhhh, maybe. The '93 Mustang Cobra does a good job for a lower price,
and it's just a taste of what's ahead in the 30th Anniversary of
the original Pony Car.

>>Unless the Ford gets the 32v, 300hp Romeo.  You don't seriously believe
>>that it was designed for the Mark VIII only, do you?
>>
>Hey, can you imagine the potential of a MODIFIED LT-1!!!!!!!
>Folks in a few years we will surpass the levels of performance 
>achieved in the late '60's, thats scary.

Just think! Corvettes are almost up to the performance levels
of a '65 Cobra! Wow! In a few years, they might be up to the
performance levels of a '66 Ford GT-40. Wow, man, just think
about it... ;-)

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103751
From: amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL)
Subject: Re: BMW 528i

In article <1993Apr25.180954.20425@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, adn6285@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
 writes:
>I looked at that Bimmer yesterday. It's an '81, has about 90kmi, according
>to owner (odometer stopped working at 68Kmi). Drivess well, sounds good,
>body is OK, he wants $3000.
>i liked the car, despite it's auto tranny, but my wife will be a primary
>driver on this one, and she wants auto.
>The radio does not work untill the car warms up and you honk the horn (!)
>The A/C seems to have a leak.
>The sunroof is sticky, but operational.
>Odometer does not work, as mentioned before.
>Idle is a bit bouncy, going from 900rpm to 1200rpm.
>Wipers are slow.
>That's teh gripes. The owner says that he changed radiator, alternator,
>rotors and calipers, exhaust.
>The biggest problem, is that the owner is a shifty SOB, telling strange
>stories. I hate that. I would never buy from a persom like that, except, how
>often you see a descent 528i for that amount of money. He also said that,
>although I could bring a mechanicin, he wouldn't let me check the car by taking

>it to a garage. Suspicious. And who knows what milage is on it.
>So, let me know what to check for, given there's practically no rust.
>I know there was an article on 528i in R&D a few years back, anybody remembers
>what issue?
>Mike.S
>
DON'T BUY IT!  All of the things you mentioned will just give you headaches
later on.  ALso it sounds like the car needs a lot of work and as you probably
know BMW's are not cheap to fix either.  The owner sounds like a shady
character just trying to take advantage of someone. Sure $ 3000 sounds good
but you should calculate how much the repairs will be. It sounds like you
would have to sink in at least $ 1000 to get everything fixed if not more.
Also never trust anyone as far as mileage is concerned. Who knows how many
miles are on it and how it was driven.  Sure people tell you BMW's hold up but
you have to consider any car is subject to wear and tear. For all you know it
could have 200,000 miles on it.  The thing you have to remember is that this
isn't the last 528i around either. Just wait and keep shopping. For around $
5000-6000 you can probably find one that is better, needs less repair, and has
legitimate mileage unlike the one you are considering. Take it from a guy who
has been taken a couple of times. Good luck.
Al Himsl

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103752
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <oTNm3B1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> vlasis@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (vlasis theodore) writes:
>
>I can put a 32valve V-8 with twin Garret-4s on Yugo and get 7.7sec QM.
>Thats useless ... Its still a Yugo that will loose any race on a track,
>or on the street.

A Yugo that will go 1/4mi in 7.7 seconds will _not_ lose on the
street. That's just too damn quick. It might be wrapped around
a telephone pole at the end of that quarter mile, but it will
be there alone...

>Have you Detroit beings compared the ultra-long-throw stick shifts of
>the 5.0 with the 93 MR2 turbo or 93 RX7 (I ll buy it in 6 mos) ?

Or you could replace the stock shifter with a Hurst short-throw
shifter (available from Ford Motorsport), or any number of other
after-market products to boost the performance of a Mustang or
Camaro. Can you do _that_ with a '93 RX-7, or, verily, with _any_
MR-2? With the Detroit aftermarket, you can build a Mustang or
Camaro which is superior to either car you mention for less than
the sticker price of either.

>Or the Torsen differential of the RX7 compared to the Differential of 
>the 5.0 that sounds in every hairpin turn ?

Well, gee. It works, and it doesn't break. It transmits power to
the drive wheels, and it's essentially zero maintenance--and there's
an aftermarket in parts for Ford and Chevy rear-ends, too.

>And bythe way 5.0 and Camaro both have drums on the rear breaks ...
>Hello , this is the 90 's ?

Well, the '93 Mustang Cobra (which, from all reports, uses the
same running gear as '94 Mustang) has 4-wheel disks. I can't
speak for the new Camaro, but I think it does, too.

Also, stop and think about the markets here. The Mustang is, and
always has been, a mass-market sporty car (that's where the
"pony car" class came from) with a performance model. That's
why it has the econo-box running gear. That was also factored
into the design of the Mustang from the day Lee Iacocca conceived
his baby; it was designed as a wide-market car--sporty, yet 
accessible--with room for performance tweaking.

The cars you listed are designed for a specific market niche,
and they both fit those niches very well. The Mustang, at least,
does well in multiple markets; I can't speak for the Camaro.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103753
From: asdch@acad2.alaska.edu
Subject: Re: Last of the V-8 Interceptors (Mad Max)

	Tony,  I believe, first of all, that Max's car is an Austrailian
built car.  I don't think its a chopped up U.S. unit.  It may be called a
Kangaroo or Roo or something similar-not sure.  But, I do recall reading
that Austrailian cars used Ford V-8 engines.  The Ford V-8 Interceptor
is, I think, a 428 c.i. cop car motor.  Whatever the case that small car
with a screaming big block Ford 428 would probably smoke the tires for
miles/kilometers.  I hope someone out there can elaborate on the subject.
		
			Smoke 'em hard, smoke 'em fast.  Later,
					David Hertrich.
				'68 Lincoln Continental 460c.i.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103754
From: jdrout@scott.skidmore.edu (JTD is lost)
Subject: Re: WHAT car is this!?


Deloreans NEVER had a factory V8.  They were considering production
with a turbo (or twin turbo, I forget) version of the standard V6.  As
to who produced it, you got me!

Jonathan

jdrout@scott.skidmore.edu

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103755
From: boyle@cactus.org (Craig Boyle)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

In article <C64Mux.Bpr@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>In article <C5zzD8.1Kt@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> marshatt@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Zauberer) writes:
>>Disclamer: this is not a flame.. if you anger easily please go on.
>>>petebre@elof.iit.edu (BrentA. Peterson) writes:
>>
>>>The next Mustang will be Ford's highest profile car.  It attracts
>>>way more attention than the Camaro/Firebird because it's heritage
>>>is more embedded in the general public.  Don't lie to yourself and
>>>believe Ford will forfeit that.
>>
>>FYI: they already did.
>
>Oh, really. When?
>
>>Too bad that the current Mustang can't even compete with the new
>>Camaro without using an active imagination.
>
>The '93 Mustang Cobra can. Check it out.

So you think a 93 Mustang Cobra can match the performance of a new Z28??
Interesting belief! 

Craig

(who neither owns, nor wants to own any GM or Ford product)

Craig

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103756
From: cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan)
Subject: Re: I'm getting a car, I need opinions.


In a previous article, ip02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Danny Phornprapha) says:

>I have $30,000 as my budget.  I'm looking for a sports or GT car.
>
>What do you think would be the best buy?  (I'm looking for specific models)
>
>Thanks,
>Danny
>-- 
>
>===============================================================================
>=    "Hey! You programmers out there!     |    Danny Phornprapha              =
>=     Please consider this:               |    ip02@lehigh.edu                =
>=                                         |                                   =
>=     Bugs are another endangered earth   |    LUCC Student Konsultant        =
>=     Species needing your protection.    |    Work: (215) 758-4141           =
>

For an all out sports car, I'd go for the RX-7 without the sports
suspension (which is too stiff.)  For a little more practicality and more
comfort, the Nissan 300ZX Turbo is a good buy.  And for a good dose of
luxury, the Lexus SC300 is perfect (with a manual transmission of course.) 
However, the Toyota Supra is coming out soon and if you like it's looks,
the performance is supposed to be great, almost race car like.  I don't
particulary like the Mitsubishi 3000GT's or the Dodge Stealths as they are
too heavy and aren't very nimble handlers for a sports car.
-- 
A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

"The mind is the forerunner of all states."

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103757
From: brother@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Jesse McCabe)
Subject: There's rust on my Beamer! Help!

Actually I wasn't too surprised, since I bought it with the rust.  Any of you 
got some ideas of getting rid of this CHEAPLY (key word)??  It has eaten all 
the
way through on the door panels.  Can I use Bondo?  
 
Also, is there a good paint that will bond to Aluminum rims?  The paint thati
was on my rims has peeled off, actually, there's some rust looking 'stuff' on
the rims themselves...  but it comes off pretty easily.  
 
One more thing...
Have any of you done self-painting to a car?  How do you start?  What do I need
to do this?
 
Please help me!
Jesse


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103758
From: mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee)
Subject: Re: Chryslers Compact LH Sedans?

cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (CarolinaFan@uiuc) writes:

>shoppa@almach.caltech.edu (TIM SHOPPA) writes:

>>I thought that the V-10 was originally designed for a truck (not necessarily
>>a pickup!) and then just sort of dropped into the Viper's frame because
>>it fit and was available.  A friend of mine and I saw (and heard) a Viper,
>>and my friend's first response was that it sounded like a truck!  It sounded
>>fine to me, but then again, I don't like the whiny noise that most modern
>>sports car engines make.  BTW, the Viper we saw was moving at about 10mph,
>>just like all of the other cars on the 10 freeway heading east out of LA
>>on a Friday afternoon.  Looked really nice, though.

>	Actually, I was under the impression that the V-10 in the Viper was
>NOT the V-10 that Dodge was developing for its new Kenworths.  I have always
>thought it was the exhaust system and not the engine that produced the noise
>of a car...?

Well, yes, the exhaust is where the majority of the noise comes out, but the
basics (tone, firing cadence, etc.) are determined by the engine configuration.
In the case of the Viper, yes, we are discussing a HUGE multicylinder 90-deg.
engine, which will sound somewhat like a truck.  And my understanding, btw, is
that that V-10 engine was designed originally with the intention of being ad-
aptible for either the trucks or the Viper.  And from what I've heard (no first
hand knowledge :-( ) it's doing a pretty good job at both.

And the best exhaust sound in the world is now and will always be a 60-degree
DOHC Colombo-designed V-12.  Period.

Michael T. Chaffee
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu	<----Email
mchaffee@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu	<----NeXTMail
.sig under construction.	<----Excuse

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103760
From: SKUKRETI@CHEMICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Sanjai Kukreti)
Subject: Advice on used car?

Hi, I was looking for some helpful advice.
I'm a university student with about $7000 to spend, and I'm looking for a 
used car. Does anyone have any useful advice they could offer to a first-
time buyer? I'm not looking for anything sporty, just something functional 
and reliable (less maintenance costs). Anybody have any ideas on what models 
might suit me?

Thanks

Sanjai


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103761
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

In article <2BD0BDC3.25868@news.service.uci.edu> raman@translab.its.uci.edu (Balaji V. Ramanathan) writes:
>	The part about spending $5000-7000 on repairs reminds me
>of an article I read in a magazine comparing the 5 year ownership costs
>of a Toyota Camry and a Ford Taurus or something like that.  The result,
>which they announced with great flourish was that it cost the same at the
>end of the period.  That was their argument to prove that you don't go
>wrong buying the Ford Taurus over the Camry.
>
>	Now, if I remember correctly, the Camry costs about $4000 or so more
>in initial costs.  Essentially, it means that you spend about $4000 extra
>on repairs on the Taurus.  That is ridiculous.  Every time your car
>needs repairs, it is extra hassles, loss of time and a dozen other things.
>I would much rather spend $5000 more in initial costs than spend $4000 more
>in repair costs.

did you account for depreciation?  i seriously doubt that a taurus
would rack up an extra $4000 in repair costs over 5 years.

-teddy

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103762
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: wife wants convertible


In a previous article, nuet_ke@pts.mot.com (KEITH NUETZMAN X3153 P7625) says:

>
>HELP!!!
>my wife has informed me that she wants a convertible for her next car.
>We live in South Fla., so we are definitely in the right are for one.
>My wife has mentioned the Miata, but I think it is too small.
>I would like to wait for the new Mustangs ( Dec. '93 I think).
>Anyone have any opinions on any/all convertibles in a reasonable price range.
>
>                                           Thanx
>

Geo Metro LSi
:-)
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103763
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Subject: Re: Too fast


In a previous article, callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) says:

>In article <1qn4ev$3g2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>>
>>In a previous article, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) says:
>>
>>>In article <1qkon8$3re@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>>>larger engine.  That's what the SHO is -- a slightly modified family
>>>>sedan with a powerful engine.  They didn't even bother improving the
>>>>*brakes.*
>>>
>>>	That shows how much you know about anything.  The brakes on the
>>>SHO are very different - 9 inch (or 9.5? I forget) discs all around,
>>>vented in front.  The normal Taurus setup is (smaller) discs front, 
>>>drums rear.
>>
>>one i saw had vented rears too...it was on a lot.
>>of course, the sales man was a fool..."titanium wheels"..yeah, right..
>>then later told me they were "magnesium"..more believable, but still
>>crap, since Al is so m uch cheaper, and just as good....
>>
>>i tend to agree, tho that this still doesn't take the SHO up to "standard"
>>for running 130 on a regular basis.  The brakes should be bigger, like
>>11" or so...take a look at the  ones on the Corrados.(where they have
>>braking regulations).
>
>Well, let's see...my T-Bird SC has a computer-controlled adjustable
>suspension, 4-wheel ABS disks (11" vented front, 10" (?) rear), 3-point
>belts, sturdy passenger compartment, aerodynamics good enough for 
>NASCAR without too much change, 210 hp/310 ft-lb supercharged 3.8l V6,
>4-wheel independent suspension (plus limited-slip differential), with 
>a top speed in excess of 130mph, and rides on V-rated tires (I have yet
>to find 225/60-R16s in any other speed rating). 
>
>Is that "up to standard"? If not, why not?
>
>				James

james, i really hate to do this, but try reading the damn posts!
never was a t'bird mentioned.  The discussion was about SHO's and
'stangs not being up to spec.  I do not know about t'birds.  I
only know that the specs quoted for the SHO by previous poster sounded
a little anemic for me to say that it was up to snuff.  This does not
in any way  disencourage* me from wishing to own one, nor does it make it
a bad car.  It merely means that i think Ford could have added that extra
bit of safety  and tossed in larger brakes, as the wheels are plenty large
enough for them to fit (if memory serves right, which it may very well not)
and the motor plenty powerful enough to need it.


c ya
DREW

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103764
From: mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes:

>callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>: >> 
>: >I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if 
>: >you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your
>: >alarm?  I can think of worse things in the world.  Glad you got out of there
>: >before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.
>: 
>I think people have a right to kill to defend their property. Why not? Be
>honest: do you really care more about scum than about your  car?

I can't tell if Matt is being sarcastic here or not, but to be honest, many
automobiles are worth far more to their owners (in $$ value and $$ investment)
than the people that would take them.  I don't have figures on average property
tax in the U.S. or how much of it is allocated for housing projects, inferior
public schools, jails, or the like, but I have a feeling that the amount the
government steals from an honest, productive citizen to breed this trash is 
significantly less than the value of many automobiles.  And for those who will
argue that the animals out there stealing cars and everything else (not to
mention committing COMPLETELY senseless acts of violence, such as rape) cannot
be valued in terms of money because they are human beings, I submit that they
are not human beings.  Jim Callison, I think, is on the right track.  And 
Chintan Amin remarked earlier that we cannot blame environment for the actions
of a single criminal.  I couldn't agree more.  One could trace any crime back
to the environment/upbringing of the criminal; should we let all of them out,
from pickpockets to rapists to inside traders, because what they did wasn't
their fault?  Where does one draw the line?

$0.02

Michael T. Chaffee
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu	<----Email
mchaffee@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu	<----NeXTMail
.sig under construction.	<----Excuse

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103765
From: mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee)
Subject: Re: VIPER

rmt6r@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Roy Matthew Thigpen) writes:


>Last night I had a dream that my dad bought a Viper.
>I took it out for a test drive, without his knowledge,
>and had to push it all the way home just to avoid a ticket.
>Wierd dream, I wonder what it means....

Vell...Let's see...vas you muzzah in der passenger seat?  Or vas you muzzah in
der leefing room, vit you fazah?

M.
(Feeling a tad bit Freudian, doubtless inspired by the magnificent phallic-ness
(some word) of the Viper)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103766
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Subject: Re: WARNING.....(please read)...

In article <1993Apr17.051701.3419@nuscc.nus.sg> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Matthew MacIntyre at the National University of Senegal) writes:
>callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
>: >> 
>: >I'm not going to argue the issue of carrying weapons, but I would ask you if 
>: >you would have thought seriously about shooting a kid for setting off your
>: >alarm?  I can think of worse things in the world.  Glad you got out of there
>: >before they did anything to give you a reason to fire your gun.
>: 
>I think people have a right to kill to defend their property. Why not? Be
>honest: do you really care more about scum than about your  car?

Yo! Watch the attributions--I didn't say that!

Again, this isn't an appropriate forum for discussions on whether you
should shoot someone for property damage/vandalism/theft, but every
responsible gun owner realizes that there are limits, and the punishment
must fit the crime. I mean, think about it--is a (really) harmless
prank worth killing over?

As I said, the situation described (punks setting off alarms and
taunting people to come out) could turn very ugly very quickly, and
it is worth being prepared when your life is potentially on the line.

				James

James P. Callison    Microcomputer Coordinator, U of Oklahoma Law Center 
Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
		The forecast calls for Thunder...'89 T-Bird SC
   "It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. You take away all he has 
	and all he's ever gonna have." 
			--Will Munny, "Unforgiven"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103767
From: mchaffee@dcl-nxt07 (Michael T Chaffee)
Subject: Re: Manual Shift Bigots

eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:

>In article <C5LIw2.CAx@news.rich.bnr.ca> Peon w/o Email (Eric Youngblood) writes:
>>In article <1qn2lo$c9s@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman) writes:
>>The big disadvantage of automatics is the ~10% HP they consume that never
>>gets to the wheels.  In this respect they are at a disadvantage to a manual.

>only when the torque converter is not locked up.  there are autos out there
>with converter lock up in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears.

W/r/t performance, converter lockup is purely irrelevant.  The lockup only
occurs at light throttle settings and serves only to improve MPG.  Mind you,
a converter clutch does a lovely job of improving MPG, but the additional
mechanical advantage of the converter gives you more acceleration (vs. locked
converter clutch) than its inherent losses take away.


Michael T. Chaffee
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu	<----Email
mchaffee@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu	<----NeXTMail
.sig under construction.	<----Excuse

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103768
From: gyu@bbn.com (George Yu)
Subject: Re: The Kuebelwagen??!!

thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:

>	Sorry for the mis-spelling, but I forgot how to spell it after 
>my series of exams and NO-on hand reference here.

>	Is it still possible to get those cute WWII VW Jeep-wanna-be's?
>A replica would be great I think.  

>							-TKH '93

According to _The Complete Guide To Specialty Cars_, 7th Edition, from
Crown Publishing, it's the VW Kubelwagen (w/ 2 dots over the 'u').
The company is:

   Wolfkam
   P.O. Box 1608, Vika
   0119 Oslo 1, Norway

   011-47-30-26601 voice line
   011-47-2-166138 FAX line


An excerpt from the blurb:

   ...This fine Kubel clone from Wolfkam is a very close copy of
   the original, and offers the same all-weather and cross-country
   capabilities as its WWII forebears.  The robust fiberglass body
   kit is very complete, and includes all the hardware you will
   need, except for your own VW donor car.  The phone number [...]
   is the entire AT&T dialing sequence; call and ask for Karl
   Torum, or send $5 cash or _International Money Order_
   for a complete literature package.


George.

P.S., I'd be happy to share what info I have on other kit cars and
      kit car manufacturers.

P.P.S., I'm looking for a used or partially completed Porsche 356
        Speedster Convertible D replica from Intermeccanica.  I'd
        appreciate any leads or advice/stories from any owners
        out there.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103769
From: n8846069@henson.cc.wwu.edu (BarryB)
Subject: Re: Plymouth Sundance/Dodge Shadow experiences?

daubendr@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Darren R Daubenspeck) writes:

>> they are pretty much junk, stay away from them.  they will be replaced next
>> year with all new models.  

>Junk?They've made the C&D lists for years due to their excellent handling and 
>acceleration.They have been around since about, oh, 85 or 86, so they're not  
>the newest on the lot, and mileage is about five to eight MPG under the class
>leader. You can get into a 3.0 L v-6 (141 hp) Shadow for $10~11K (the I-4  
>turbo a bit more), and a droptop for $14~15K.  

How can car be any good that has

          S     N     A    C
             U     D     N    E

written on the back with crooked letters as if a 2-year-old had
written it?  Hehhehehehahaha!

(About as silly as Crysler's attemps to make the label on the back
of some of their other cars appear like they are Mercedes.)

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

-BarryB

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103770
From: klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <1993Apr24.150653.8115@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
| cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
| >aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
| 
| >>i think that it is technicaly known as a 180 degree vee configuration.
| >>(could be wrong....this is how i've seen them referred to)
| 
| >    Then what is a "Flat-" engine???
| 
| flat = 180 deg V = horizonatlly opposed
| 
| Usually, it also equals "boxer," however, I think the term is
| traditionally reserved for 8's and 12's (and firing order matters).
| This was talked about here in r.a many months back; I can't remember
| the consensus.
| 
| Examples:
| 
| Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer.
| Porsche's 911 is a flat 6.
| Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4.
| 
| Regards,
| 

Not to inject a non-automotive note to this thread, but the BMW opposed
twin used in motorcycles for a *long* time is and always has been known as
a "boxer".  
--
Ken Franklin 	They say there's a heaven for people who wait
AMA     	And some say it's better but I say it ain't
GWRRA           I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
DoD #0126       The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103771
From: crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Christian Huebner)
Subject: Re: Last of the V-8 Interceptors (Mad Max)

asdch@acad2.alaska.edu writes:

>	Tony,  I believe, first of all, that Max's car is an Austrailian
>built car.  I don't think its a chopped up U.S. unit. 

The last V8 in Mad Max is based on a Holden (Australia). Holden is
linked with GM (Vauxhall GB) and so they're quite unlikely to use 
Ford parts.

Chris  crh@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103772
From: klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

In article <Apr24.180313.21646@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
| In article <1993Apr24.150653.8115@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser) writes:
| >Examples:
| >
| >Ferrari's 512TR is a flat 12 boxer.
| >Porsche's 911 is a flat 6.
| >Subaru's Impreza is a flat 4.
| 
| i think you got it the other way round: the Ferrari flat 12 is a 180
| degree v12 and not a "true" boxer, while the subaru and porsche are
| true boxers.  don't know about the vw bug though, but i suspect that
| it is also a true boxer.
| 
| eliot

Are you serious?  The auto that had a lot to do with bringing the term
"boxer" to the popular forefront was the Ferrari 512 Berlinetta Boxer
or the 512BB. Had a 5 liter, opposed 12 cylinder engine.

--
Ken Franklin 	They say there's a heaven for people who wait
AMA     	And some say it's better but I say it ain't
GWRRA           I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
DoD #0126       The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103773
From: <MCARRON@ESOC.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Nissan Nomenclature (was Re: Manual Shift Bigots wanted)

The European version is called 200 SX and have a 1.8 liter engine with
turbo and have more power than the US version ( 169 HP ); it goes from
0 to 100 Km/h in 7.5 sec and have a top speed of 225 Km/h ( 140 miles/h ).
I just purchased one ( new ) and I am looking for a repair book. I could
not find one in FRANCE and GERMANY; does anybody knows where to find one ?
Is there one in the UK ?
Probabaly no use to look in the US as the 240 SX have here a different motor.
I am very pleased with the car and have no problem with it; but like to have
good technical documentation about the car I own.

                               Regards

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103774
From: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Geof Evans)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

ssave@ole.cdac.com (The Devil Reincarnate) writes:
>  I am curious about knowing which commericial cars today
>have v engines.
>V4 - I don't know of any.
>V6 - Legend, MR3? MR6?
>V8 - Don't know of any.
>V12 - Jaguar XJS
> Please add to the list.
> Thanks,
> -S
> ssave@ole.cdac.com
*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
                     Is this a joke ?
                                      *>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

-- 
  ___________________________________________________________________  
|| Geof Evans                 | DOMAIN: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au  ||
||   If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk.      ||
  -------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103775
From: pfk1@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Philip F Kromer IV)
Subject: Does a car wash hurt the cars finish?

Can taking the car to a car wash hurt the car's finish?

And if so, is it better to hand wash it about once a month, or just take it 
to the car wash anyway?

Are detailing places worth the money?  if i do a good, careful job on washing
and waxing, is a detail place going to be worth it?

reply to my email address: pfk1@crux1.cit.cornell.edu

pk4

My views reflect Cornell's.  Sue them dry.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103776
Subject: Tires comparison
From: vpopesc@opus.uucp (Valentin Popescu)


Eve'.

I am looking to buy 4 new p195-50r15 tires.. (R or HR). I don't
have much to spend, but I would like a tire that will LAST. Does
anyone have any experience with the following brands?

	Riken
	Falken	
	BFG	
	General	

There are others, but these I can find here for under $70.. Like
I said, I am mostly interested in threadwear then speed, since I
hardly get to drive them over 80 or 90 mph. Also, is it true that
"noone will give you warranty on such tires", according to
a tire dealer?

Finally, do HR tires last longer than R tires (threadwear again),
or is that strictly a speed factor?

Thanks for any replies..

-- 
            |         "Whatever doesn't kill me makes me stronger."
_________  -+-__      _________     
\_____  /   |/_ \     \  _____/           Internet: vpopesc@calstatela.edu
 \_____ \_____/  \____/  ____/            Bitnet:   vpopesc@csla.BITNET

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103777
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: Re: Lexus and Infiniti

In article <issa.735601408@cwis> issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin) writes:
>Don't the numbers in the car names above refair to the engine size in 
>liters? i.e. ls400 = 4.0litre engine, sc300 = 3.0 liter "Sport Coupe".. 
>and Q45 = 4.5liter.. (similar, kinda, to BMW and MB nameing deal). 
>
>issa

Funny, I thought the numbering scheme for both Lexus and Infiniti was
related to sticker price more than anything else, i.e. Infiniti G20 (around
20K), Q45 (around 45K), Lexus ES250 (RIP) (around 25K), Lexus ES300 (around
30K), etc.

Is there a conspiracy theory there? 

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      "I post, therefore I ARMM"

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103778
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: V4 engines


In article <1993Apr26.234514.8418@kronos.arc.nasa.gov>, chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr23.183318.4635@ll.mit.edu> singer@ll.mit.edu (Matthew R. Singer) writes:
|> >Didn't the Saab Sonnett have a V4? I recall someone telling that it was
|> >something like 1/2 of a Ford 289.
|> 
|> Not only the Sonett (correct spelling), but the 95 wagon and 96 sedan
|> used a 1500 cc or 1700 cc V-4 from Ford of Germany.  This particular
|> motor had a 60 degree vee angle, a balance shaft and siamesed exhaust
|> ports.  This motor was later stretched into the V-6 commonly seen in the
|> Capri.

I think it was the reverse, the V4 being 2/3 of the V6.

|> The V-4 could make pretty reasonable power for its size.  But in the
|> Saab, it made too much torque for the transmission, which had been
|> designed for a 3-cylinder 2-stroke.

It was also the worst engine that Ford (Europe) have ever made - bloody
awful reputation. It's most successful application being the Transit
van.

Saab gave up with this motor and then made the Triumph 1854 (half a Stag V8) under license (I believe), but with 2-litre capacity and perhaps a different
arrangement for the cylinder head studs, before developing their own straight 
four from the Triumph.

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103779
From: jmh@hopper.Virginia.EDU (Jeffrey Hoffmeister)
Subject: Re: IMPALA SS GOING INTO

I still can't understand all the hype about the Impalla SS, it STILL has
the ugly Caprice body (Orca on wheels).  The Caprice was the worst new
body style to come out of Detroit EVER! Now just because the LT1 engine
and a few suspension tweeks are being added.

Its STILL UGLY, its STILL a BARGE.  GM's answer to everything is "throw in
a V8 and someone will buy it."  Or "add some plastic ground affects
and a few stickers and call it a GT, GTZ or SS, and someone will buy it."

IMHO GM needs to scrap the Caprice body COMPLETELY and start over with a
BLANK sheet of paper.  No minor modification (wheel well treatments, tail
amp modification, or nose re-design or even the LT1 engine) will help
the existing Caprice.

Jeff

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103780
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: Best Radar Detector - VALENTINE-1?


re: extended Ka bands.

I recently bought a 2 band detector.  You guys must all think I'm
nuts, right?  Well, I did a little research into Ka usage in this
area and found out that Ka is not currently being used in this state
as well as surrounding states.  Here's how I found out:

- A cop friend who did spend time nailing speeders doesn't even know 
  what Ka is.  He's heard of K, which is what they use here and I
  explained that Ka is used for photo radar etc.. He then said, yeah,
  "Ka stands for K automatic"... duuhh.  He then went on to say that
  plans were being made for getting laser guns as far as going high
  tech were concerned, but he didn't know too much.

- My 8 year old 2 band whistler was consistently going off at speed traps,
  even the real sneaky ones.

- When I called the Escort Shop, they confirmed that Ka is not used here
  or in surrounding states.  They did claim that Laser was being used
  a lot here, which I was quite skeptical of.

So in the end, instead of spending a lot of money and/or waiting
months for a state of the art detector, I got a low priced, high
performance 2 band Escort 2200.  Incidentally its performance is equal
to their top of the line model in X and K band detection.  I know that
Escort has been surpassed by other brands lately, but I've never fully
relied on a detector and I was convinced that the Escorts would be at
least quite good, which was good enough for me and my wallet.


eliot

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103781
From: johnson@spectra.com (boyd johnson)
Subject: Re: Automotive crash test, performance and maintenance stats?

<<I wrote>
<Is there a resource available to the consumer comparing all of the makes
<and models of automobiles, trucks, vans, etc. for survivability in a
<crash of different severities?
<...
<Also, I've found very little objective data comparing different
<vehicles for handling, pick-up, braking, expected maintenance, etc.
<I recall years ago Consumer Reports annual buyer's guide was much more
<informative in those aspects than it is now.

Thanks to a reply from someone I looked a little further and found what
I was looking for.  The April CR magazine has most of the above things.
Despite recent articles here the ratings looked pretty good for
relative comparison purposes.  Unfortunately the crash test comparisons
didn't include half of the cars I'm comparing.
Anybody know how '93 Honda Civic hatchbacks and Toyota Tercels fare in
an accident?


-- 
====== Boyd Johnson   nosc!spectra.com!johnson  San Diego, California ======
	Intermittent newsfeed at best and only to selected groups.
	My opinions certainly don't match those of my employer.

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103801
From: markm@bigfoot.sps.mot.com (Mark Monninger)
Subject: Re: Car buying story, was: Christ, another dealer service scam...

In article <1993Apr27.021456.7594@slcs.slb.com>  
dcd@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) writes:
> In article <1993Apr16.162950.25849@newsgate.sps.mot.com>  
rapw20@email.sps.mot.com writes:
> >
> >before you go in. Find out the invoice prices of the car, add a  
reasonable  
> >profit for the dealer ($200-$300??), offer them that price and stick to  
> >it.
> 
> Whoa!  Watch your terminology.  "Dealer invoice" is *not* "dealer cost".
> ...

That's probably true but it's the closest to it that you're going to get.  
The actual dealer cost depends on a lot of things and even the dealer  
probably doesn't know exactly what it will be until all the factory   
kick-backs, incentives, etc. are paid and that often depends on his volume  
at the end of the month/quarter/whatever. It might be a funny munber but  
it's all you have to start with, except the sticker, and anyone who pays  
sticker price is really being ripped off.

Mark

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103802
From: mobasser@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu (Bijan Mobasseri)
Subject: Re: V4 V6 V8 V12 Vx?

We have seen lots of discussion on automobile engine configuration. Let me ask 
a similar question from the aviation field. You must have seen images of prop 
planes with all cylinders exposed. I have seen up to 8 cylinders positioned 
radially in a circular fashion with the prop at the center of the circle. 
This arrangement always brings up a geometric dilemma. How can one crankshaft 
throw accomodate 8 rods or are the pistons displaced but not visible from the 
outside.

Bijan

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103803
From: sontakke@helix.enet.dec.com (Vikas Sontakke)
Subject: Re: REVIEW: 1989 Ford Taurus SHO


In article <kfr=ewC00WA1Q6wtt7@andrew.cmu.edu>, Sam Swett <ssbc+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes...
> 
>One more way, which works in manual trans cars I've driven, and it is my
>personal favorite (the other suggestions above are great, but try this
>one, too).  
> 
>While pushing the shifter *gently* towards reverse, let the clutch out
>slowly (right to the friction point) and the shifter will be pulled into
>position. If you do it right, the car won't jump backward, nor will the
>gears grind.... You will just glide back.
> 
>-sam

I can vouch for this method in my 1990 SHO.  This is the only sure way of 
putting in the reverse without any problem _every_ time.

Vikas Sontakke		Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard MA.
Internet:		sontakke@helix.enet.dec.com
    uucp:		{decvax,ucbvax,allegra}!decwrl!helix.enet!sontakke
			sontakke%helix.enet@decwrl.dec.com

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103804
From: etxmst@sta.ericsson.se (Markus Strobl 98121)
Subject: Re: ***** LICENSE PLATES *****

In article anl@ollie.solbourne.com, guerra@solbourne.com (Edi Guerra) writes:
>I would like to know if anyone still has a copy of the list of License Plates
>that were posted some time ago regarding special names and sayings.
>
>THXS,
>EDIG
>
>

Me too!

Markus



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103805
From: strait@cheetah.csl.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey C. Strait)
Subject: BMW parts

Greetings automobile enthusiasts.  Can anyone tell me if there is
a mail order company that sells BMW parts discounted... cheaper than
the dealerships.

Sorry if it's a FAQ. email replies very much appreciated.

Thanks,
-- 
| Jeff Strait                       | strait@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu        |
| University of Illinois            | PHONE: (217) 333-6444            |
| "If you ladies leave this island, if you survive basic recruit       |
| training, you will be a weapon, a minister of death praying for war" |

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103806
From: cheekeen@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Desmond Chan)
Subject: Re: Honda clutch chatter

     I also experience this kinda problem in my 89 BMW 318. During cold
start ups, the clutch seems to be sticky and everytime i drive out, for
about 5km, the clutch seems to stick onto somewhere that if i depress
the clutch, the whole chassis moves along. But after preheating, it
becomes smooth again. I think that your suggestion of being some
humudity is right but there should be some remedy. I also found out that
my clutch is already thin but still alright for a couple grand more!


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103807
From: chris@camp.wpic.pitt.edu (CHRIS EMERSON)
Subject: ----->Those nasty insurance people ---------------------

Hello everyone,
   I have an insurance question.

Allstate insurance

SITUATION: Person wrecks car. Car is drivable to dealer. Person 
reports accident (no other cars involved). Driver estimates damage cost 
exceedes cost of car. Insurance people claim car is "totalled" because of 
exceeding repair costs.
Person says "WWHHHAATTTT!!!! But I drove the car here!" and takes it to 
another place. Other place estimates 2,101.00 in damage. 2,000 less than the 
dealer.
One more hitch... The car is registered in Florida but the accident occurred 
in Pennsyvania.

QUESTION: Should the insurance recognize and pay for the damages of this, 
now fixable, car even though they prematurly declared totalled?

Please respond via E-Mail if you think you know anything about this sort of 
thing. 

chris@camp.wpic.pitt.edu

Thanks...

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103808
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Ford Probe, Import Car of the Year

In <1ri9rv$jfl@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> newman@cps.msu.edu (Timothy S Newman) writes:


>Okay, okay, I know the Ford Probe is made in the US, in fact it's
>made in Michigan, at a Mazda plant.  My question: are most of the parts
>from American or Japanese sources?  I have been told that most of the US
>assembly plants for Japanese automakers import almost all of the parts used in
>the vehicles.

>Any information anyone has on this will be appreciated!

Ford aimed for 75% US content when they designed the new Probe. In actual
practice it came out to 77% US content. If my '89 is any example the 23%
that is imported may be the engine and brakes, at least the '89 had
Missybitchy brakes.

>Tim Newman
>newman@cps.msu.edu

Bob



Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103809
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Saturn Extended Warranty

In article <C63rrw.1G9w@austin.ibm.com> $LOGIN@austin.ibm.com writes:
>
>I've owned a Saturn for and year and a half, and didn't have the extended
>warranty, but just traded it in for a 1993 (for reasons that I won't mention
>unless someone wants to know.)  I opted for the 5 year/60,000 mile extended with
>$50 deductible.  It's sorta like buying health insurance.  You could say that
>you're not sick now, and haven't been sick for a while, but you can't guarantee
>that you won't be sick tomorrow.  A little money invested today is better than
>being sick tomorrow and now being able to pay for it, or having to pay a lot
>more tomorrow than you can today.

justify all you want.  extended warranties are a ripoff, high profit item for
the dealer.  and you didn't buy 5yr/60k, you get 3yr/36k *free*, so what you
bought is 2yr/24k.  and you still have to pay $50 every time you use this 
great 'warranty'.  better to put your money in the bank and use it for repairs
if/when you need it.  considering that your last car was only 1.5 years old,
are you sure you will even keep this new one past it's *free* warranty period?
btw, typical profit on extended warranties is around 80%.  that's right, only
20% of the money needs to go into the collective pot to pay for any future
repairs that the group of extended-warranty-people collect.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103810
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: The 1994 Mustang

>
>And bythe way 5.0 and Camaro both have drums on the rear breaks ...
>Hello , this is the 90 's ?
>
>Vlasis Theodore

good point.  you would think by now that most car companies would just make
4 wheel disc standard and be done with it.  can it really cost that much more
for disc?  especially when you think of the economies of scale they would gain
by just making them all 4 wheel disc.  no seperate parts numbers and orders 
etc.  btw, the z28 and trans am and formula have 4wheel disc, but the bottom
line models have the rear drums.


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103811
From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)
Subject: Re: Is car saftey important? 

>Safety is an important criterium for me when buying a car. I won't buy a 
>small car like a Civic or whatever.
>
>Great = Safety + Handling + Speed  -  for me

 EvenGreater = Safety + Handling + Speed + $$$$$  :for the RICH!!!
	ie: Merc 600SEL!!!




Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103812
From: <CGS103@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Changing oil by yourself "IDIOTS"

In article <1993Apr26.143540.29917@cs.tulane.edu>, mark@luke.cray.com (Mark
Dean) says:
>
>Quit whining on the net about changing your oil yourselves!!!!!!
>If you can't handle such a simple procedure as changing your
>oil then get somebody else to do it and get the hell off the
>network!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>                           MD
>
>
Cool off!  These people have as much right to be here as you do.
(BTW, is this the kind of friendly, helpful service we should
expect from Cray?)

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103813
From: nancy@hayduke (Nancy Feagans)
Subject: Re: Dumbest automotive concepts of all time

In article <bense.33.735855979@oasys.dt.navy.mil> bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense) writes:
>In article <1993Apr24.003549.126206@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL) writes:
>
>>In article <1993Apr15.155325.6329@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, nancy@hayduke (Nancy
>> Feagans) writes:
>>>Ashtrays and cigarette lighters.  These should be an *option*.
>
>>You forget that the cigarette lighter plug is essential for plugging in radar
>>detectors and lights. The ashtrays are also essential because they are great
>>places to keep change and tokens.
>
>Wouldn't you rather have some type of standard "electrical" plug instead of 
>that "fire hazard waiting to happen" adaptor? I know I would, and I would 
>also prefer to have sensibly placed cup holders instead of an ashtray. (my 
>car came with coin holders already built in)
>
>Ron

Exactly.  You took the words right out of my mouth, Ron :-)

-- 

Nancy J. Feagans     (818) 306-6423
Jet Propulsion Lab   nancy@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103814
From: djanzen@kits.sfu.ca ('69 Dart)
Subject: '88 Corolla 5spd.

Hi there, maybe you can help me...

I have an '88 Corolla with a 5 speed as the subject line says.  The gearbox
seems excessivly clunky.  I used to have an '85 Corolla, and it was also 
somewhat clunky, but it had 30,000 more miles on it, and it wasn't nearly as
bad as this car!  Is there fluid in the 5speed case?  If there is, could it
just be low, or in need of a change?  As I recall, only the autos have fluid.
Or am I just mistaken?  Please no flames for owning an import.  I also have
an old Dodge, but it's not in very good shape these days...

Thanks,
Derek

Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103815
From: gibbonsa@fraser.sfu.ca (Darren Gibbons)
Subject: Datsun/Nissan 240/260/280Z cars

Well, the Opel deal fell through...

Now i'm looking at a Datsun 240Z for sale in our local buy&sell.  Any
previous owners have any experience with these cars?  Besides looking
for rust,good compression,low miles, and all the other usual car
things one looks for, is there anything special about these cars that
I should watch out for?

How about things like handling,performance,mileage,etc.  These cars
look hot, to my eyes at least, and bear more than a passing
resemblance to the Aston Martin DB4 Zagato(sp?), which has to be one
of the most beatiful cars ever made.

What is the difference between 240Z, 260Z, 280Z?  The 280ZX is rather 
unappealing IMHO, but the other cars are decent.
Thanks again...
Darren Gibbons
gibbonsa@sfu.ca


Newsgroup: rec.autos
Document_id: 103895
From: alung@megatest.com (Aaron Lung)
Subject: Re: Waxes/Polishes

In article <1993Apr27.172335.23392@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bbarnard@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bret D Barnard) writes:
>With Spring upon us it's time to start waxing again.  I was wondering if anyone
>had any suggestions about waxes and polishes.  I know carnuba wax is often 
>recommended on the net, but I was wondering about the colored waxes to cover up
>some minor scratches.  Do the colored waxes give on overall good quality shine?
>Are they good for the paint or clear coat?
>
>What about Liquid Glass, is it a clear polish which dries clear; thus filling
>scratches?  is it good for the paint/clear coat?
>
>Please post with both good and bad experiences.  And hey, let's name names 
>(brands) here!  ;^)


All gimmicks!  Stick with plain 'ol carnauba wax that's non-abrasive.
Eagle 1, Meguiars, Turtle Wax, and a few others are good examples.
The colored waxes just color in the scratches so they're not so 
apparent.  The better approach is to buff minor scratches completely
off with a cleaner/mild abrasive.

Never tried Liquid Glass, although I still have this sample they sent
me a few years back. 

aaron
 


